New L41 myth weapons

[Robhawk]

So... well...

Ehhmm....

Any thoughts why the new L41 warrior weapon is worth 3 times the gold then the new L41 mage staff? No ?

Well i tell you because its so easyyyyyyyy...

With that new damageoutput weapon warriors are killing machines in PVP! They were killing machines even with the L36 version of glaive/bonesaw...
So as most ppl know STS doesnt care a lot about PVP but open your eyes, 90% of items prices and so 90% of whole economy is controlled by PVP usability !!!

Some examples?

Arcane maul was THE PVP weapon in AL from the day it came out, the prices were constant and insane from L31 to L41 for 3 seasons!!!

Arcane maul got nerfed or to be honest it got bug fixed after 1 year, PVP usability got lower -> prices dropped to half!

Bulwark was useless in PVP -> price was broken from day 1 (4M)!

Bulwark got buffed to total OPness -> price exploded (20M)!

Bulwark was nerfed again to be "nearly useless" in PVP -> price back to bottom!

L36 Glaive/Bonesaw were GREAT PVP weapons -> price was stable for 2 seasons!

L41 Glaive/Bonesaw were announced -> L36 Glaive/Bonesaw prices fell to bottom in NO TIME...


So the economy/items prices are controlled by PVP usability and the price differences between weapons that should have equal quality should tell you, STS!

The conclusion of that is also VERY EASY: BALANCE ITEMS FROM PVP PERSPECTIVE AND YOU WILL GET A HEALTHY ECONOMY !!!


FIX THIIISSS !!!!

[Niixed]

Youre absolutely right Robhawk. PvP imbalance has deeply hurt the rest of the game in so many ways. A casual PvE-only player with a warrior must fork over 50+ million gold to get the 41 bonesaw or whichever weapon succeeds it next season. What's the chance that that player is going to stick with Arcane Legends long term? An arcane-rarity chance, I'd say.

The anti-sorcerer imbalance is so severe there really isn't any point in playing a sorcerer in PvP unless you have 200+ million gold worth of gear. However, even the 200M+ gold sorcerers will still struggle against any of the well-geared warriors in PvP. What's the chance a PvP-only player with a sorcerer is going to stick with Arcane Legends long term? An arcane-rarity chance, I'd say.

There's so many ways the imbalance affects the whole game, but I don't have time to write them all down. Ultimately it drains the positive energy from the whole game. All players eventually sense the unfairness and the unfortunate truth is it turns many of them away from Arcane Legends permanently.

[Zeus]

You make a very good point, Rob.

Player vs. Player, although to the developers is not very important, makes a huge impact on the economy. In turn, even players who do not play PvP are indirectly affected by it.

Wyldstorm brings up interesting points about anti-sorcerer imbalance. The fact remains that as players, we have given the developers vital information on what exactly to fix. However, nothing has been done to fix this imbalance! As players, while fixing the little bugs are nice, fixing gameplay mechanics would make us even happier. Remember, a happy player usually equals a paying customer.

Thankfully, right now the bonesaw is about 25-30M gold and dropping so it is affordable to some. However, with the nerfs and buffs, STG has made other warrior weapons literally halve in value. As players, that 25-30M is now increasingly unattainable. Consistency is a problem with STG. If you make a change to the game, try to stick with it please. It hurts players in the end when mistakes are corrected after copious amounts of negative feedback is given.

This is also evidenced by the leaderboard. With the Ursoth event, Shady & Surge had much PvP value. So, as a result, players ran for it and they ran hard. With these new vanities in the Halloween event, players are still running but the intensity is far less compared to what it was in previous events. Yes, some of the factors are attributed to event cost and such but the fact that the vanities have no PvP relevance is a clear sign of how PvP influences the economy.

So, we have all this expensive Player vs. Player gear but we do not have realistic methods of obtaining it other than popping locked crates or merchanting. It seems that STG has completely forgotten that farming is a vital part of the game. Until STG releases gear worth farming for, the economy will be in trouble. If the economy is in trouble, players will become increasingly unhappy. The quitting rate then increases. Remember, just because another customer downloads the game does not mean he replaces the one that quit. One of them has already invested in the game while the other has not.

Food for thought.

[Niixed]

You make a very good point, Rob.

Player vs. Player, although to the developers is not very important, makes a huge impact on the economy. In turn, even players who do not play PvP are indirectly affected by it.

Wyldstorm brings up interesting points about anti-sorcerer imbalance. The fact remains that as players, we have given the developers vital information on what exactly to fix. However, nothing has been done to fix this imbalance! As players, while fixing the little bugs are nice, fixing gameplay mechanics would make us even happier. Remember, a happy player usually equals a paying customer.

Thankfully, right now the bonesaw is about 25-30M gold and dropping so it is affordable to some. However, with the nerfs and buffs, STG has made other warrior weapons literally halve in value. As players, that 25-30M is now increasingly unattainable. Consistency is a problem with STG. If you make a change to the game, try to stick with it please. It hurts players in the end when mistakes are corrected after copious amounts of negative feedback is given.

This is also evidenced by the leaderboard. With the Ursoth event, Shady & Surge had much PvP value. So, as a result, players ran for it and they ran hard. With these new vanities in the Halloween event, players are still running but the intensity is far less compared to what it was in previous events. Yes, some of the factors are attributed to event cost and such but the fact that the vanities have no PvP relevance is a clear sign of how PvP influences the economy.

So, we have all this expensive Player vs. Player gear but we do not have realistic methods of obtaining it other than popping locked crates or merchanting. It seems that STG has completely forgotten that farming is a vital part of the game. Until STG releases gear worth farming for, the economy will be in trouble. If the economy is in trouble, players will become increasingly unhappy. The quitting rate then increases. Remember, just because another customer downloads the game does not mean he replaces the one that quit. One of them has already invested in the game while the other has not.

Food for thought.

Excellent, excellent points Zeus. Bold highlights are mine.

[Anarchist]

Sorry but i don't agree with you Robhawk.

Basing every gear released to be a pvp beast so it can worth enough for merch is not the way to solve AL economical problems.
#1. AL economical problems do not reside in the mythic but in the legendary section. So not in items obtainable through crates but elites.

#2. PvP oriented weapons are the most expensive not everyone can afford them and not everyone wants a pvp weapon.

Demand is important but so are accesibility and variety.
To revive economy you have to work on elite loots. Period.
If the items looted by the average farmer will worth something thats when he will be able to build enough gold to be able to buy things.

Economy 101 Henry Ford. Its by putting money in the workers hand that he is able to spend and buy your products. So the worker has to be paid as much as possible, ergo Elites loot has to worth as much as possible cause that is basically the primary reward of a farmer.

How do you make elite loots worth something? There are a couple of efficient ways i wont waste time repeating cause God knows how many times they have been suggested.

------


The new mythic amulet is coming soon and imo it has the potential to solve the elite dungeons economical depression since all it components are elite based differently from Nekro and Arcane ring. N
ow since all the components can be farmed the demand for this amulet will be very high and so will the components be.

My suggestion is to make 90% of the components tradeable and 10% accessible only if the player worked for it himself.
This way while you have to work for the amulet it is still possible for the elite farmers to make some gold out of the biz.

[Firezmz]

[QUOTE=Zeus;1888205]You make a very good point, Rob.

Remember, a happy player usually equals a paying customer.

Remember, just because another customer downloads the game does not mean he replaces the one that quit. One of them has already invested in the game while the other has not.

Thank you to your good points. HOPE ONE OF THE MOD OR DEV READ THIS. And I must agree the Forgot the Mages balances

[Robhawk]

Sorry but i don't agree with you Robhawk.


Ok... then tell me the huge price differences for weapons like arcane maul, bulwark or glaive/bonesaw? You really think this has nothing to do with PVP usability? Cmon....



#1. AL economical problems do not reside in the mythic but in the legendary section. So not in items obtainable through crates but elites.

When legendary gear becomes usefull for PVP the price raises -> Talisman amulets f.e. were at 200k when they came out and now they are around 1M! Why? Because they are the best amulets for PVP at the moment, nothing else is the reason!
The more legendary gear is usefull or at least compatetive in PVP the prices wont be 100k for helmets and armor like now... but why is it only 100k? Yeeesssss because they are mainly useless for PVP!



#2. PvP oriented weapons are the most expensive not everyone can afford them and not everyone wants a pvp weapon.

Thats to obvious... but hey how many players entering PVP at endgame have legendaries only? I bet not more then 1%! The ones who enter PVP with legendary only are food, except warriorclass!



Demand is important but so are accesibility and variety.
To revive economy you have to work on elite loots. Period.


Yes... make rare legendary drops that help for PVP and you will get your gold selling it! When the elite loot isnt for PVP... who`s gonna buy it then? The free playing PVE players who dont have any plat or gold?



If the items looted by the average farmer will worth something thats when he will be able to build enough gold to be able to buy things.


They get worth something when usefull for PVP, i repeat myself but its the truth!

THe rich PVP players who spend a lot of real money keep this game alive not the play for free PVE farmers!
The free farming is only possible because some freaky ppl spend money to play with/vs other ppl !
That also means STS should take care more of PVP! When the PVP`ers leave this whole game is DONE !

No PVP players -> no money for STS -> no new events for the free playing players -> no one plays AL -> GG TY -> STG/STS gonna release a new cow to milk and all this starts from the beginning.

[Anarchist]

You skipping a important thing. The most important is i did not say items demand do not depend on their usefulness in pvp i said every item shouldnt be pvp oriented. PvP usefulness is as important as variability and accessibility though the first is the most obvious.

You have to know:
If every weapon is pvp oriented the worst pvp weapon will always cost the least and it will be legendary. The best pvp weapon will always cost the most and will always be either mythic or arcane.

Taking that as a fact.
Its better to have a more variable set of weapons for each type of player and don't be mindblown but its also better some mythic and arcane items "suck"( pve oriented). If the mythic and arcane item "suck" but the legendary is competitive in pvp its value will rise cause the demand for the mythic weapon will decrease in favour of the legendary weapon.

And thats the dirty job of the bulwark right now. Its pve oriented and less desireable problem is the magmatic claymores have saturated the market already and won't receive any benefit from this but just imagine if magmatic claymores received a revamp. Boom their value would increase and players will go back running elites.


Your denigration of F2P in favour of P2W in order for the mythics to increase in value is a shame cause its plain obvious legendary will always be the worse if everything was that way and it is with legendary items farmers make gold and most of the players play.
Even the players paying for this game don't just wanna always sit down pop locks but also farm decent legendary loots and sell them to make gold.




Conclusion:
Making
Every war carry a sword.
Every mage carry a gun.
Every rogue a bow.

Is not the way to solve Al economical problems imo. Rather work on elites loots with frequent revamps or itemization system.

[Robhawk]

Anarchist,

my last try:

Items which are worthless for PVP, no matter which rarity wont sell good, they wont get any good value. P E R I O D !!!

edit: Just name a single item that is awesome for PVE and worthless for PVP that is worth more then 50k gold... none? :angel:

edit2: You can build your conclusions with elite loot or what ever your thoughts are around my fact and then you will see the light on the end of the tunnel. :D

[Shimada]

For this, I request the Mods/Devs to visit on site the player not only in the guild hall or town. But visit also the pvp section, bring out the best gear they have in all classes and play PVP on AL players so that they could evaluate the real scenario. This nerfing after the updates is fine with doing sometimes and doing once. Testing thoroughly with the new items they are going the release is a very important thing. Because testing thoroughly will lessen the nerfing thing. Thus what happen now the less testing in the mod/dev environment and not testing on live AL players will require them to nerf as long as some players tell them. Consistency of sts is what the players is asking here.

[Anarchist]

Sorry but i have to still disagree. Magmatic totems were pve oriented being staffs but they still worthed something back then same with the magmatc daggers. After some months they eventually saturated the market, now this is the problem sts allows elite loots to saturate the market and lose value.

Even claymores that where pvp oriented still lost value suffered and still suffer cause nothing was done.
Makin everything pvp oriented is not the way, rarity and the way a item can be obtained determine value too.

We can go on discussing all day but i will never agree to sacrifice the variability of weapons to increase their value when there are less drastic ways to do it.

[SacredKnight]

Anarchist,

my last try:

Items which are worthless for PVP, no matter which rarity wont sell good, they wont get any good value. P E R I O D !!!

edit: Just name a single item that is awesome for PVE and worthless for PVP that is worth more then 50k gold... none? :angel:

edit2: You can build your conclusions with elite loot or what ever your thoughts are around my fact and then you will see the light on the end of the tunnel. :D

Level 31 expansion the Vigilant Pavise of Fitness was selling at around 1.5-2.5 Million gold, which was pretty pricey way back when. Obviously it dropped for even more obvious reasons. But this item was quite good at PvE but worthless for PvP, why? Well it's proc literally went off about once every minute (Average) but it only worked for PvE. The Maul had a similar proc and might I say a much stronger one, but that is to be expected from an Arcane Hammer.

Just FYI the proc on the Pavise was damage and stun all enemies whom are attacking you, fact it even works in Elites today! Sure no one would use it because the damage and DPS is so meager you rather just punch your way through BUT the proc is still one of the best for a warrior PvE.

TBH I am on the majority which does not think weapons and gear should be PvP oriented, I believe that all weapons should hold down strengths and weaknesses. A sword and shield should be able to beat any plane sword in Elites/PvE (With obvious reasoning, e.g. you cannot compare a level 27 Epic Shield with a level 41 Bonesaw) and vice versa.

[Robhawk]

You both dont get my point but i wont explain it a 10th time...

SacredKnight:
FYI, when Pavise came out and when it was obvious from the beginning that its nearly useless for PVP were was its price compared to arcane maul? Perhaps you could buy 20 or more pavise for 1 arcane maul? Yes? Yes!
Why was the glaive/bonesaw stable at around 25M for so long? Perhaps they were the boomboomboomdead-weapon for the warriors? So myth bonsaw was close to the value of the arcane maul because of its PVP usability!
Why was the legendary claymore worth a lot although there were hundreds on the market? Yeeeeeesssss because they were good PVP weapons! If STS didnt make the mistake to flood the market with these good legendaries the price would have been 2 to 4M!
Why had legendary totems of brutality a good value? Because they were best weapons for mages PVPwise beside myth and arcane weapons. They were legendary but they were ok, i played with a totem of brutality around half a year in PVP!

At the end of the day it is what it is and when you dont want to understand it, well... ok, im fine with that but i know it better!

[Ice]

Rob dont waste your time of them... they dont pvp anyways... yes its true all item price depends if its useful in pvp...

A good example is samael... how many new arcane pets was release but still samale price is stable and high. do you know why? because its the best arcane pet for pvp.
Another good example is Shady and surge - OP in pvp = OP in price.

Necro - singe - whim brother - bad pvp pets = cheap arcane pets...

lets go to weapon - 41 mythic staff mage - bad pvp item worth = 5-7m..
41 mythic daggers - same bad pvp item for rouge - current price = 15m..
41 mythic bow - price is stable good pvp item for rouges...

Its very simple dont make it so hard on your self and next time use a bit of your brains... most people just comment for the sake they can comment and argue... they did not even think clearly...

Also i notice the people who gives bad feed back dont even have gold do pvp.. meh rob you explain to them your just like talking to the wall... my advice to you ignore them, let them comment whatever they want we all know the truth anyways.

[Ice]

Rob your debating two people who just forum all day... they dont even pvp nor merch.. even if they merch all cheap items... your just wasting your time imo.

[Anarchist]

I forum.
I merch.
I pvp.
I pve.
I give feedbacks.
And yes making all items categorically pvp oriented is removing a important aspect of the game, 10m more 10m less it does not worth losing weapons specifically dedicated to pve.

Ps: If you can't carry on a logic discussion followig this line but have to personally attack others with unproved observations about how they play the game, then please reserve your dumbarse personal attacks for yourself .....or others. :D

[Serancha]

You do realize that a good weapon is a good weapon, like a good build is a good build, right?

There has never been a weapon that is good for pvp and doesn't work for pve, or vice versa. Yes, I know some sword/shield warriors will glare at me and disagree, but it's true. A truly good weapon can and should be used everywhere.

Making it seem like a weak weapon only matters in pvp is not the best way to sell your point, mainly because you're selling your point short by leaving out the larger (from sts's perspective) part of the issue. It may not seem like it to the pvp cliques, but the majority of players in the game are PvE, which is why that is the main focus for development.

In short, the weapon complaint is not a pvp vs pve issue at all. It is a straight up gear issue, and would probably be better addressed as such.

[Titanium]

I forum.
I merch.
I pvp.
I pve.


IGN ?

[Anarchist]

IGN ?
Maliath. :)

[Robhawk]

You do realize that a good weapon is a good weapon, like a good build is a good build, right?

No!

A pavise is a good weapon for PVE but in terms of PVP... So lets say a good PVP weapon is mostly also good for PVE but not visa versa!
A good build... what is a good build? I can have a build vs mages, vs rogues and vs warriors every build differs but all at once can be good or bad! A good build vs rogues is useless vs warriors f.e. [/quote]


There has never been a weapon that is good for pvp and doesn't work for pve, or vice versa.

See statement above.


Yes, I know some sword/shield warriors will glare at me and disagree, but it's true. A truly good weapon can and should be used everywhere.

F.e. arcane maul and glaive/bonesaw were also great PVE weapons...


Making it seem like a weak weapon only matters in pvp is not the best way to sell your point

A weak PVP weapon can be good at PVE but the good PVE weapon will be worth nothing because there are no players to spend millions on a weapon which they cant use at PVP when we get back to the point that mainly the PVPers are the rich players and not the PVE players!


It may not seem like it to the pvp cliques, but the majority of players in the game are PvE, which is why that is the main focus for development.

I would love to see a statistic comparing players in terms spending real money on the game. Compare the ones who mainly play PVP vs those who mainly play PVE... Im sure which side spends FAR more money on the game.... that doesnt mean that most players play PVP but it does mean that these players MAKE THE ECONOMY. They decide which items are expensive (PVP usability) and which not. Go to the CS and watch item prices !!!



In short, the weapon complaint is not a pvp vs pve issue at all. It is a straight up gear issue, and would probably be better addressed as such.

Thats true its not ONLY a PVE/PVP weapon issue but i just shared my thoughts and its obvious that these thoughts are REAL... Everybody can come to its own conclusions... So all in all its not my oppinion its just straight facts everybody can look at for its own!

[Anarchist]

You don't understand that Game economy and sts pocket financed by players who play pvp and burn the largest plat in the game as you said are two different things ??(Not to mention that personally the heaviest plat buyers i have seen till date dont pvp or were casual pvpers)

If you want a pvp oriented weapon you can buy the glaive or the maul, if you like to be a pure tank then you can buy a bulwark. Why must this variety be removed? Sts buffing n nerfing damaged the bulwark owners and merchers true but why must this affect the variety of the game??

To each is opinion anyway.

[Robhawk]

To each is opinion anyway.

Well perhaps thats it. :eagerness:

[Dex Scene]

Every good pvp items are good for pve, every pve items are not good for PvP.
I know so many people who mostly pve and uses So called PVP items like SAMAEL, MYTHIC BOW, GLAIVE, OLLERUS etc.

[Serancha]

You don't understand that Game economy and sts pocket financed by players who play pvp and burn the largest plat in the game as you said are two different things ??(Not to mention that personally the heaviest plat buyers i have seen till date dont pvp or were casual pvpers)

Exactly

[Allocate]

MMO PvP is based on stats, not a player's actual "skill" so of course the best weapons/gear will be the most expensive.