The power-leveling epidemic

[Physiologic]

What is power-leveling: Players ask a lv 50 character to "leech" their low-leveled characters in various selected dungeons. A low-leveled character sits in the back of the party while only the lv 50 character kills all monsters in a speedy fashion, gaining XP for the leecher. In exchange, the lv 50 asks for gold or all the loot dropped for their services (or they may do this for free).

Problem: Players are more frequently relying on "power-leveling" services and this is doing more damage than good.

Solution: XP gained should only be activated if a character's level fits in with a dungeon's intended level of play and max limit. For example, Alien Oasis Part I has an intended level of play of 35 to 40, and it's max level limit that allows XP gain is 43. Only characters from levels 35 to 43 may get XP in this campaign.

Why am I advocating this:

Leeched character do not understand the basics of the game. This frequently causes a lot of frustrations in parties with players that know how to use their characters. Power-leveled characters have absolutely no understanding on how to control their character because it only took them a couple of hours to level from 1 to 50. See this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?17940-Oh-boy-return-of-the-Myna-s-Gens.) and this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?17987-Zomg!!!-Noob!!!&highlight=power+level).

Power-leveling causes too much unnecessary spam or "begging" in the forums. People asking to be power-leveled was tolerable at one point, but the amount of requests and begging has grown beyond epic proportions. See this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?18397-I-need-lvling), this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?17883-I-dont-understand-why-ppl-hate), this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?17885-Power-lvl), this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?17815-Can-anyone-plvl-me), this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?17836-Can-i-get-a-team-of-lvl-45-s-50-s-to-power-lvl-me-for-free), this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?17839-Need-team-of-lvl-50-mages-to-power-lvl-me-at-ao2-plasma-pyrimid&highlight=power+level), this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?17815-Can-anyone-plvl-me&highlight=power+level), and this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?18439-Can-someone-power-level-me-please-%29).

Power-leveling may cause potentially dangerous scamming consequences. A lv 50 character may promise a lower-leveled character with services in exchange for gold or items, and may leave immediately as soon as they get what they need. See this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?18359-power-leveling-is-getting-out-of-control!!!!).

Players are no longer playing the game as it is intended, and will most likely lose interest in their characters. Players who have legitimately reached max level are more likely to stay with their character because they realize the time, effort, and dedication spent to hit that level. Power-leveled characters may not value their max leveled characters as much because of their mentality, "hey, it's no biggie if I quit now, since I only spent 3 hours getting power-leveled to this level." This may potentially hurt PL's user base in the long run.


Thank you for your time. Inb4flame.

[Royce]

Similar suggestions have been made before, but now it seems more important than ever, and I am totally behind this idea. The usual opposition comes from players who want to power level alts, but that could still be done, just on level appropriate maps. In fact power leveling in general could still go on, but I think the fact that it would be harder to do (can't level a group of various level players on the same map, etc), and would be less desirable for power levelers who benefit from gold and drops to do it on lower level maps, would help minimize what has become an all too popular trend with new players.

[Kujen]

Agreed, there is way too much powerleveling. Some believe that this will be fixed in the next update, where hosts can choose to set a minimum level requirement. But it won't stop it, because people are offering services for it..and they will continue to until something is done that actually effects the xp gain.

There are some other ways to fix it. Make it where enemies do not give xp if they are so many levels higher. Or make it where having a much higher level character in the group reduces xp gain for the lower levels. Something needs to be done to encourage lower level players to play with appropriate level groups.

[Baked-Potato]

This would be perfect. I've stopped playing on my main (until 1.7 of course) because every random game I join are full of powerleveled players who have no idea how to use their character. It'd frustrating and with everyone offering powerleveling services doesn't help. Even if the player has a level 50 toon doesn't mean they should get powerleveled because they still won't learn the new class type properly.

[Phoenixking]

Tsk tsk tsk.......I'm sad

[mycroftxxx]

Been suggested before. Seems unlikely to happen.

[noobmigo]

Actually, when i ask people to power lvl me, i try the best i can to fight as well. I end up dying about 50 times per power lvl. lulz

[Lesrider]

Seems appropriate. If a high-lvl player can't get xp in a low-lvl dungeon, low-lvl players shouldn't be able to get xp in high-lvl dungeons.

In other games where xp scales to lvl instead of just giving about the same in each dungeon, that would be a different story, bc higher lvl players would still be able to get a bit of xp in lower dungeons. But the way PL is set up, seems fair that people should only get xp in the lvl-appropriate maps.

[noobmigo]

But now based on the new xp per lvl update, it's going to take you about half a year to get to lvl 10 at forest haven. And Dark Forest. And Balefort.

[Lesrider]

But now based on the new xp per lvl update, it's going to take you about half a year to get to lvl 10 at forest haven. And Dark Forest. And Balefort.

No, they only changed lvl 20 up.

[noobmigo]

But you're going to have to kill about 500 zombies in forest haven because it is the only lvl 1-9 stage. So as a lvl 1-9.....wow.

[Physiologic]

Just because it has been suggested before doesn't mean I can't suggest it again, over and over :p and les has a good point, XP restrictions should work on both ends.

[chrononh]

My only problem with this, having just leveled an archer through ao1, ao2 and ao3, is that the maps are so nerfed that a lower level can effectively play those maps if they know what they're doing. I soloed Bastet as a level 35, soloed Zankura as level 38. Probably could have soloed Sobek in Mynas, too, if some other players didn't show up. All I did was spam health pots.

Maybe a plus/minus 3 levels for each campaign to gain xp would work better. That is, for ao1, you can gain xp from level 33 to 43 or something like that. Below that range, you probably shouldn't be in that campaign to begin with.

[Physiologic]

My only problem with this, having just leveled an archer through ao1, ao2 and ao3, is that the maps are so nerfed that a lower level can effectively play those maps if they know what they're doing. I soloed Bastet as a level 35, soloed Zankura as level 38. Probably could have soloed Sobek in Mynas, too, if some other players didn't show up. All I did was spam health pots.

Maybe a plus/minus 3 levels for each campaign to gain xp would work better. That is, for ao1, you can gain xp from level 33 to 43 or something like that. Below that range, you probably shouldn't be in that campaign to begin with.

I understand that this may be the main reason why the devs are hesitant at implementing an XP restriction on this end, but yeah, they can extend the level range in that manner.

[Lesrider]

But you're going to have to kill about 500 zombies in forest haven because it is the only lvl 1-9 stage. So as a lvl 1-9.....wow.

Huh?
/10char

[Dizzy]

People who want to shortcut will shortcut, and if there's a way to lvl more quickly than just sticking to the quests allows, people will find it. The only real way to counter-act it is to either make quests more rewarding or make power leveling unrewarding.

Getting to lvl 50 without knowing how to play is just too easy right now. The fact that you can reach endgame without a single kill or death means something is wrong with the system -- there's no incentive to actually learn the game if you can spend the entire game leaching off other peoples work. This to me is the REAL problem with leveling in this game.

I dunno. I just don't think level restrictions will stop it. Perhaps there needs to be quests that require teamwork, quests that require each class to do their thing, maybe even some "tests" every few levels before you can gain more XP. There need to be speedbumps on the road to leveling, maybe some sort of final exam every 10 levels or so to test that a person is learning their skills. Someone new to the game will then be forced to learn it, and someone leveling an alt would have no problem passing such a quest since they already know the game.

[KingFu]

To destroy the power leveled noobs, destroy their multiplying headquarters first. We must take out reporteds power leveling service!

[Physiologic]

To destroy the power leveled noobs, destroy their multiplying headquarters first. We must take out reporteds power leveling service!

It seems to me that Reported fell out of the radar as soon as we raised concern and shown evidence of players that had no idea what they were doing at level 50 VL runs, most likely attributed to his money-making power-leveling scheme.

[Cabero]

Thanks for linking my post :) I think it should be more like Chrononh said here. Because I know myself I can go to a new zone 3 lvls early and pull my weight just fine. I think this would be the most reasonable. Even if someone doesn't know much their DPS still will be effect then. So atleast they can attempt to pull their own weight. And this would still make where they have to learn as they go too.

My only problem with this, having just leveled an archer through ao1, ao2 and ao3, is that the maps are so nerfed that a lower level can effectively play those maps if they know what they're doing. I soloed Bastet as a level 35, soloed Zankura as level 38. Probably could have soloed Sobek in Mynas, too, if some other players didn't show up. All I did was spam health pots.

Maybe a plus/minus 3 levels for each campaign to gain xp would work better. That is, for ao1, you can gain xp from level 33 to 43 or something like that. Below that range, you probably shouldn't be in that campaign to begin with.

[Physiologic]

Thanks for linking my post :) I think it should be more like Chrononh said here. Because I know myself I can go to a new zone 3 lvls early and pull my weight just fine. I think this would be the most reasonable. Even if someone doesn't know much their DPS still will be effect then. So atleast they can attempt to pull their own weight. And this would still make where they have to learn as they go too.

Yeah, I'm able to get to levels earlier than intended as well, but seeing a lv 14 character in Crush the Keeper! is absolutely absurd. I'm for the -3/+3 level extension (they already implemented the 3 levels above thing though, so it would be nice if they did it for 3 levels lower).

[recklessfa]

I'm still taking screenshots when I see a nice rifted bear with 1200 kills and 900 death selling pvp kills for 20k in town.
What's the point, STS doesn't seem to mind...

Along with cheat codes, buying gold or a lvl50 with real money, Power leveling is killing such mmos.
Too bad for those of us who are used to join groups and for those who spent a lot of time, plat and efforts to lvl 3 Alts the hard... regular way.

Some will quit, some will learn, just hang on in the meantime.

This shouldn't be a suggestion. Just a feature.
Hope it will.

[Lesrider]

The only justification i see for powerleveling is in games where you can lose sncharacter *cough DD cough*. in those situations, it would majorly suck if your friends couldn't help lvl you back up quickly. But people don't just lose chars in PL -- so let everyone do the work that it takes to get there.

[Ona]

I won't try to argue with any of you, I'm just here to make points. But here it is: I did power-lvl for a while and I also power-lvled one of my chars.

Why did I pwr-lvl? Because, I never (or very rarely) boot ppl from my games. So, when I do CTK runs, I'm usually surrounded with low lvls (lvl50 usually leaves when they see that they won't be able to effectively crush the keeper). So, I only thought: well, if I'm doing the whole work, why wouldn't I get the items coming with it? At least, the leechers don't get money besides the XP.

Why did I pwr-lvled? Because I already had 2 others chars and after Lost Expedition there are not so many quests that make you want to stay on the tracks. Still, I think that I know how to use my bear (I think that playing with Chaudex and Fabio for a while probably helped), but there are really not a lot of interests after lvl35 to reach lvl50.

What did I learn from those experiences? First, don't think that the pwr-lvling service is a piece of cake or a gold mine: Many players don't pay their due (I never left a game after ppl paid, but I've seen the opposite many times), some get killed because they think they can tank with their lvl15 (and of course they ask you to pay back their lvling pots) and you get insulted by many ppl telling you that you steal ppl (while I consider it as a trade). I stopped doing it because I'm not playing a game to argue with ppl (I can do that very easily IRL). But don't take Reported as the reason of a all the troubles. I know some who pwr-lvl and don't make others pay (I don't know their interest), so that leechers make gold and XP...nice way to go if you think about it.

Then, I agree on the fact that pwr-lvling should have restrictions. Doing it from lvl1 to lvl50 makes no sense and I really never imagined that some would do that for real (I played other mmo and I've never seen it doing so systemacally). But I guess that the problem comes from the consumption of PL. PL is a game for ppl who have only a few hours free during the week (devices are too small to spend days and nights on it). So, if they can find an easy way to reduce the time they need to reach the most obvious goal, they will do it. Thus, I think that fixing a cap for each campaign is the only way to prevent it.

Other proposal: playing in the tracks has to be attractive, so there should be more quests, espacially for lvl35+. And maybe some of the quests should give you items that you may need to rock when you will be lvl50. Of course, some will want to race to lvl50 and then complete the quests, but at least the ones who did it lvl after lvl, quest after quest will be rewarded.

I hope this may help you a little to solve the problem. Because, it's true, too many ppl don't know how to play this game while they should.

PS: pardon my poor English

[Dizzy]

To expand on my post, the problem isn't powerleveling. No really, it isn't.

The problem is that people can reach endgame without learning ANYTHING. What's the real problem here? What's really bothering everyone? That people powerlevel, or that there are tons of people who don't know how to play?

Think about it: would anyone care much if at the end of being powerleveled, people knew how to play?

Powerleveling is merely a result of a poor leveling system. There just should be no way someone who stands in a corner should get as much XP as someone who kills mobs, spams heal, aggros bosses, etc. I love this game, but this system is a major reason why so many people can't play. When a leveling system doesn't differentiate between those who are working and those who are not, the door is left wide open for lazy people to advance exactly the same as hard workers.

It might seem like I'm splitting hairs, but the problem of poor players won't be solved until there's a solid reason people need to know their skills before advancing.

[Physiologic]

To expand on my post, the problem isn't powerleveling. No really, it isn't.

The problem is that people can reach endgame without learning ANYTHING. What's the real problem here? What's really bothering everyone? That people powerlevel, or that there are tons of people who don't know how to play?

Think about it: would anyone care much if at the end of being powerleveled, people knew how to play?


It's not power-leveling itself. I was fine with people power-leveling their alts and people offering their friends to powerlevel, but it's just gotten out of hand, and power-leveling for the mass results in a very undesirable thing in-game and on this forum (as I have listed in my original post). It's more of a simple cause (power-leveling) and effect (begging, scamming, spamming, etc.) argument.

[Dizzy]

I dunno. I might be splitting hairs.

It's just the problem to me isn't powerleveling, it's a system that rewards laziness. When someone is too lazy to level, they'll never have any respect for the game. Why not beg? They don't have to work to level up, why should they work for gear or gold? And if you don't know how to play well, the last thing you want to do is go die on dungeon crawls. And if you don't want to crawl dungeons to do quests or level, why would you want to farm?

Start requiring that people actually work and learn in order to advance, and you'll see this lazy behaviour die off.

Ugh. Like I said, I LOVE this game, but it encourages lazy entitled people by giving them the same rewards as those who work for it.

[Kujen]

I can see why it may be bad to not allow lower levels into maps they payed for. But to stop powerleveling, players just need to be discouraged from playing in levels too high for them, or encouraged to play in the correct levels.

That's why I think it is good to decrease xp for mobs that are maybe 5+ lvls above you. Make playing in the correct level map the fastest way, and that's what these people will choose. Maps above the recommended level should give a fraction of xp. They can still play keeper if they want, but they'll get little to no xp. Or they can play the recommended maps for their level, and get the fastest xp.

[between]

in diablo 2 i powerleveled 5 or 6 sorcs to 90 because i wanted to test and perfect my zeal sorc pvp build(before the ability to restat) and that was when you could go from 1-80 in just a couple hours with uber tristram
but i also had 3 90+ that i leveled the old fashion way, and i was using my hammardin to level myself ><(vmware) lol

but back to PL, i dont see a need for power leveling, because you can just restat and swap gear :p idk im just rambling x.x

[Nightarcher]

I dunno. I might be splitting hairs.

It's just the problem to me isn't powerleveling, it's a system that rewards laziness. When someone is too lazy to level, they'll never have any respect for the game. Why not beg? They don't have to work to level up, why should they work for gear or gold? And if you don't know how to play well, the last thing you want to do is go die on dungeon crawls. And if you don't want to crawl dungeons to do quests or level, why would you want to farm?

Start requiring that people actually work and learn in order to advance, and you'll see this lazy behaviour die off.

Ugh. Like I said, I LOVE this game, but it encourages lazy entitled people by giving them the same rewards as those who work for it.

Exactly! As in your even-earlier post, the real problem is the dependent players power-leveling creates. "Dependent" is my terminology for players who cannot utilize their skills, potions, and strategy enough to carry their own weight and add to the team. As you said, they simply do not know how to play and survive in difficult dungeons.

People who don't (and probably lack the capability to) use skills and potions effectively is my biggest pet peeve.

[Otukura]

I suggest 3 level each way, so for AO1, 32-43...

OR

have xp gained based on damage delt... different classes would have advantages though.

[davidis57]

One thing you forget that there are players like me who xp from 43-49 in ao2. Very few good parties for ao3. Lot of times I die, everybody leaves, or I get booted from ao3 for not being 50. I got 2400+ xp to go. In a few days all 50's will be on the new maps. I have yet to complete beyond captive audience. I am an archer and could not solo ao3. Overall I agree with you. No one power lvl me. I joined groups. Lower lvls will feel left behind next week. In a way I understand how it feels - Timbabird