Thorn Wall Vs Shatterring Scream

[eagleswords]

I would say Avian Scream

Pros:
Stun everyone around you (Range like mage and archer deals NO damage to you)
Damage HIGH "100 +"
Lower mana cost

Cons:
Close range
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Thorn Wall

CONS:
Stop everyone around you BUT they still can do damage
High mana cost
VERY little damage done like "16" ??

[mycroftxxx]

Um, you're only thinking about one metric: damage. Think about the other properties. Thorn wall can delay close-range enemies (guys with swords) getting to you. It can also set up a “nature strike” combo with an elf. Often I'll thorn wall and do my “cruel blast” combo at the same time. Getting the two combos off in close succession kills most mobs.

[Formora]

Shattering scream is the debuff. Do you mean avian scream?

I have both shattering scream and thorn wall maxed out... You have enough points for everything except avian scream, restore and meditation.

[eagleswords]

Yes avian scream was what i meant. To be honest avian scream should replace thorn wall.

[Fyrce]

I would always keep enough thorn wall for the stopping ability and the combo. It's one of the best damage combos in the game. I like my thorn wall maxed or close to maxed for max range and number of targest, because when combos go off, it's a big beautiful show with a pile of corpses afterwards. Avian scream is really hard to pull off well for a bird sitting back from the enemy. Most of the time, you will "miss".

[rku]

Thorn wall actually does pretty big damage. I think the skill description is inaccurate. Thorn wall > avian scream no question

[BeardedBear]

Avian scream is OK for archers, it pays off much better on a Str bird though. I look at it like a ghetto version of stomp....that misses half the time.

[eagleswords]

Thorn wall does very little to no damage at all and it is extremely difficult to coordinate with an enchantress to pull off the combo.
Moreover it is useless against an archer/enchantress in a pvp battle.

So tell me what do great about it? 66.67% of the monsters you see are range that makes NO difference if you root them (enchantress and archers) leaving 33.33% for close up combat (melee)

[Physiologic]

Thorn wall does very little to no damage at all and it is extremely difficult to coordinate with an enchantress to pull off the combo.
Moreover it is useless against an archer/enchantress in a pvp battle.

So tell me what do great about it? 66.67% of the monsters you see are range that makes NO difference if you root them (enchantress and archers) leaving 33.33% for close up combat (melee)

rku's correct. The skill description of "16 damage" is entire incorrect. I kept forgetting to edit my guide with that information but I'll put that in now. From what I remember correctly it does roughly 250 damage per affected enemy at skill level 5, against an enemy with 4-6 armor.

It's not very hard to coordinate with an enchantress; simply Thorn Wall a huge mob of enemy, most enchantresses will see those spikes of green appearing from the ground and use their Lightning concurrently. And how is it MORE useless against a PvP battle, compared to a 3m ranged Avian Scream? I'd say they are both useless, but Avian Scream is even more useless.

Here's a screenshot of Thorn Wall's actual damage:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2psgmip.png

Here's a screen shot of Thorn Wall's range. The yellow line indicates an approximation of what 10m means (Thorn Wall lv 6), or it could be further. The farthest enemy instantly died; the other enemies were hit with around the same damage as the first screenshot. The red line indicates an approximation of what 3m means (Avian Scream).

http://i52.tinypic.com/2wozv9k.png

[noobmigo]

avian scream=major fail.

[BeardedBear]

Root Wall and Avian Scream are great for PVE on a str bird. Unlike regular root, wall doesn't lower dodge, which can be a bust for 1v1 pvp. AS is nice for a stun, especially with a hammer bird already stunning from the proc.

[noobmigo]

AS is a fail.

[Physiologic]

Root Wall and Avian Scream are great for PVE on a str bird. Unlike regular root, wall doesn't lower dodge, which can be a bust for 1v1 pvp. AS is nice for a stun, especially with a hammer bird already stunning from the proc.

I can see how Avian Scream can work well for Str Birds since you're always in close combat. From what I've seen when I had Avian Scream, it doesn't seem to stun bosses - but Thorn Wall can root some (not all) bosses.

[ECHUSER]

yea, timing thorn wall with a group is fairly easy. if you're running with a bear, wait for him to pull everyone towards him and then use it. as a bird i'll thorn wall when i see this (followed by a blast shot), as a mage i'll lightning. if you're only running with mages and birds, use thornwall acouple seconds after you see lightning used (to give it time to cool down) or when you dont see any lightning (b/c all mages should have lightning maxed out and they'll def eventually use it on a mob). i'll also use thornwall if i see a boss charging at me. i'd have to say thornwall > avian scream.

[Zerious]

I find avian scream pretty useless in pve. My bird utilizes AS ONLY as a hammer bird at lvl 20. It's ok to have, but definitely not worth investing in unless you're going for lvl 30-35 as a birdzerker, which you'd have thorn wall unlocked but it's not the greatest thing in pvp... Time to start some tests :D

[mycroftxxx]

I've heard that avian scream can break a freeze. I'm currently attempting to verify that. Current results are inconclusive, because it appears that the weapons the yellow yeti use in Frozen Nightmares have a freeze proc, so you get frozen repeatedly.

[Physiologic]

I've heard that avian scream can break a freeze. I'm currently attempting to verify that. Current results are inconclusive, because it appears that the weapons the yellow yeti use in Frozen Nightmares have a freeze proc, so you get frozen repeatedly.

It does break freeze, Its only somewhat useful if you're soloing LE or FN, though, as most likely you'll have mages that'll unfreeze using heal.

[leonlmf]

Physiologic, I remember you said lv6 thorn wall is 12M. are they reduce to 10m meter again. if 10m max i will keep it in lv4

[Physiologic]

Physiologic, I remember you said lv6 thorn wall is 12M. are they reduce to 10m meter again. if 10m max i will keep it in lv4

Those were simply extrapolated figures prior to 1.7, they were an approximation based off of the skill trends from level 1 to 5.

[Fyrce]

I will sometimes run in to try to stun an enemy when AS is available. That's assuming I think I'll survive. Sometimes, I'll try it just to see whether I'll survive, especially if there isn't much lag.

Thorn Wall is essential though. Great damage, great range + very easy to coordinate w/ mages because it doesn't require any coordination at all. Cool-down on lightning is very fast and most mages use lightning as often as possible. It's their favorite spell; maybe even above heal. Just watch them. So it doesn't matter if you thorn wall before or after. It's pretty easy to catch the next lightning, particularly if there are multiple mages. Thorn root works also, so I use them both, plus thorn root has slightly better range.

I especially like thorn wall after a bear beckons or after the enemy moves in after they aggro on someone. If it's not a bear, then you don't want the enemy mass TOO close to your buddy, but let the mobs move a step in and then thorn wall. With lightning and firestorm, etc, the kill pile is lovely.

[davidis57]

I have been in groups where images fail to use any aoe attacks. That makes it frustrating cause I will cast the wall and they will use a single attack. Next I am.kiting, running, and mage is dead.

[Nightarcher]

I find Thorn Wall extremely useful in PVE. I'm often running with my maximum damage set-up and a damage potion, which yields some incredible damage. I believe you can crit with it, and when you have 10+ enemies surrounding you, and a damage elixir, that's some beastly damage withthis skill alone.

I'll test it out with both my damage and crit setups later and post some data. ;)

[eagleswords]

I thought max heal works way better than having A.Scream or T.Wall. It regenerates real fast and you need not rely on heals. Works great in PvP and Battles.