The Lv 55 Pink Crafting Dilemma

[Physiologic]

There seems to be a lot of concern over the "lose one attribute, gain another attribute" aspect in crafting lv 55 pink items. While we saw that this was a unique addition to the game, the realization of which attributes were being lost and which were gained is actually deterring players from creating these new pinks (thus defeating the point of crafting them altogether).

For DEX/archer stuff: Sacrifice 6 damage per equip, gain 6 H/s + 2 dex per equip
For INT/mage stuff: Sacrifice 8 M/s per equip, gain 8 H/s + 2 int per equip
For STR/bear stuff: Sacrifice 6 dodge + 6 m/s per equip, gain 8 damage + 2 str + 2 armor + 2 h/s per equip

We do note that crafting new lv 55 pinks helps make our weaknesses better by sacrificing our strengths; e.g. archer gains survivability, bear gains attack, mage gains survivability.

But we feel that the crafted pinks hurt more than heal:

The dex/archer pinks have such a low defense that a 6 H/s gain over a loss of 6 damage doesn't even matter because archers will still die very easily.
The int/mage pinks lose out on M/s, which means mana shield, a skill very commonly used to ensure survivability in tough dungeons and bosses, is severely handicapped.
The str/bear pinks turn a mediocre damaging bear into an above-average mediocre damaging bear. The 32 damage gain pales in comparison to the 24 percent dodge loss, rendering the bear into a less useful tank (what he is supposed to do best).

Because of these debilitating features of the new crafted pinks, many of us are reluctant to shell out the time, money, and effort into creating crafted pinks.

We believe that another stat can be lost in place, or instead of stats being lost at all it can only be gained through lv 55 crafting:

1. Dex/archer: Lose damage, but increase defense instead of H/s OR Increase defense only (no damage loss)
2. Int/mage: Have the lv 55 lootable pinks have more damage (and no M/s), but increase M/s by sacrificing damage through crafting OR Increase damage only (no M/s loss)
3. Str/bear: Have the lv 55 lootable pinks have more damage (and no Dodge), but increase Dodge by sacrificing damage through crafting OR Increase damage only (no Dodge loss)

Those suggestions are just what I thought up on the spot, I'm sure other players may have much better suggestions than what I have stated. But case-in-point, we believe that the lv 55 crafted pinks should be more enticing to get. Thank you for your time.

[Royce]

The warrior and archer tradeoffs seem odd, since you craft your items and trade class appropriate stats for less appropriate ones. The Mage gear is just ridiculous. With heal, no Mage ever needs H/s, and with high cost skills, they do need mana regen, so no mages will ever craft their 55 items.
I don't mind the crafted items simply trading one stat for another, but when crafting takes your classes most important stat (dodge for bears, damage for birds, mana regen for mages), and turns it into something less desirable or even completely useless in the case of the Mage gear, then I think that's a problem.

[Echelong]

I have to agree they seem worse than the level 50s gear. They should be superior in every aspect just have to wait and see if the developers have something to say about this.

[BeardedBear]

The only good, and dare I say good thing, about the crafting difference is they would go well with 2 pink/2 crafted pink to balance them out. It just seems like the pinks have proper stats and they make a 180 when crafting. Just a few thoughts..

How about keeping the pinks the way they are, and have the crafting add...

Bird: 2 h/s, 15 health points (or maybe dodge)
Mage: 4 dodge, 2 h/s
Bear: 4 crit (or keep 6 dmg)2 m/s (enough m/s for a bear, but not quite enough for a pally or str bird)

Basically, what each class needs to compliment what they don't get already from their gear. I typed this rather quickly so I may have some holes in my ideas above.

[Tsarra]

I feel awful about this, because we whined at them about the pricing structure and they fixed it, and we were very grateful. Now we're whining about the items themselves. But Physiologic has a point. These items are not desirable as-is, which means people won't want to make them at all. It's not flaming...it's constructive criticism to improve a game we all love. I've had some thoughts on the topic as well; unfortunately, as I only play the Enchantress at this level, my thoughts are very limited, so I will agree with OP wholeheartedly and defer to his expertise on the matter. This is really only a 1/3 qualified agreement, though -- the Enchantress EQ which can be crafted at Level 55 is not appealing for my character build. I would never sacrifice M/s for H/s. That's what Heal is for. :p

I would like to see more armor and stats abound on the Lv 55 Crafted Enchantress EQ...the ones that are missing from the dropped EQ (which is very decent stats-wise, but too narrow for my tastes). If you add things like Dodge, Hit% or Crit to them and leave the M/s on them and raise the armor on them by like 15-20%, you'd have people lining up and divorcing their wives to get their hands on some. I guarantee it. :)

Can we all agree that the Lv. 5 and Lv15 Crafted gear is very equitable? I'd like to see that carried over to the Level 55 gear. (Edit: Actually trying to farm a recipe for a Level 5 Alchemist Robe as we speak)

[Kujen]

Unless there's an undiscovered set bonus, it seems like the best balance would be a mixture of normal and crafted items.

[Echelong]

Maybe set bonus can be all crafted pinks because Ellyidol tested all 55 non crafted gear and no set bonus. But if we mix non crafted and crafted we could get about 16 h/s and m/s. This feels more like pvp gear that you need all the health and damage you could get.

[Physiologic]

Ha, I certainly hope none of our posts constitute as whining or flaming. Bearded brought up the idea of voicing our opinions about these new crafted items, and I hoped to put our thoughts in before the whiners/flamers mass-produce threads claiming oMg DEEZ WEAPONZ SUX!!1 (at least, once the majority of the public figures out the attributes of the crafted pinks).

Yes, I love the fact that there are new pinks out - these stats are pretty nice compared to old lv 50 gear (lots of trade-offs, but still very good). The aspect of crafting new gear from old gear is also awesome and I can't wait until this type of crafting expands.

Our only concern is the attribute change from the old lv 55 pinks to the crafted lv 55 pinks that just deters anyone from crafting them in the first place :(

Edit:

Yes, a set bonus may have some influence over the new crafted items, but the int/mage crafted gear needs a mighty strong set bonus to counteract the loss of M/s and the addition of a rather useless H/s.

And I don't think they intended for us to mix and match between lv 55 pinks and crafted lv 55 pinks...looking back at countless previous gear, it looks like they prefer to have an identifiable item "set" (even without a set bonus) - look at Fortune, Void, Rift, Cosmos, Sentinel, Shadows, Hate, Swamp Rat, Copperhead, etc.

[Gluttony]

I'm pretty new to the whole MMORPG scene, but I know RPGs. Usually when there is an aspect of crafting you need base materials and an item modifier type material (gems in this case). For instance:

Custom gemstone leather
Fine leather panel x2
Leather cord
Gemstone setting
+Modifier slot(s)

Magic gem (+1 M/s)
Presto gem (+1 H/s)
Focus gem (+1 Crit)
Hawkeye gem (+1 Hit %)
Power gem (+1 DPS)
Gladiator gem (+1 Armor)

Lower level items (5, 15) can have one modifier slot; while the level 55 items can have 2. Something like that would allow for items to be completely customizable to the player (since they probably not be sold or traded).

[Tsarra]

Yes, a set bonus may have some influence over the new crafted items, but the int/mage crafted gear needs a mighty strong set bonus to counteract the loss of M/s and the addition of a rather useless H/s.

It pretty much renders the crafted EQ useless for the Enchantress. I would need to have someone else help me play PL just to spam pots for me!

[Aerospacegod]

I think your forgetting the alternate builds.

As a dex Mage I find it's nearly impossible to use up all my mana even if I fire spells off as fast as they generate(at some point more m/s doesn't help). I can't wait until I can use the craft items to get some more h/s. Yes I can heal but that can be bad if there is a mob as it can draw everyone on you. Also if I"m naturally healing I can focus on others things.

You may not like the current items but this is just round 1, obviously we'll get tons more later on with different attributes.

[Yanis]

My $0.2: The crafted lvl55 gear should be superior in every way to their respective "ingredients." Given the amount of effort it takes to craft, the choice to do it should be obvious. The current configuration is best suited for a new line of lvl55 pinks that could come down the road, to suit different player preferences (similar to the Thoth vs Isis vs Horus tradeoff we had to make in the early days of Alien Oasis II). That said, Sewers is still the richest, most enjoyable and balanced expansion I have experienced as a player in PL.

[Tsarra]

I think your forgetting the alternate builds.

As a dex Mage I find it's nearly impossible to use up all my mana even if I fire spells off as fast as they generate(at some point more m/s doesn't help). I can't wait until I can use the craft items to get some more h/s. Yes I can heal but that can be bad if there is a mob as it can draw everyone on you. Also if I"m naturally healing I can focus on others things.

You may not like the current items but this is just round 1, obviously we'll get tons more later on with different attributes.

I haven't forgotten the alternate builds. I just plain dislike the idea of them :)

[Fyrce]

I think customizing your build to whatever flavor you like is a great feature of this game.

[MITSUISUN]

bottom line, i get much better stats by mix/match lv50 and lv51-53 green/blues compare to lv55 pink customized set. High lv gear need to be stronger than this.

[Physiologic]

I'm still leaning more and more to these sets NOT being mix/matched. Someone said that Thade said in a town that there might be set bonuses in the future. 3 degrees of separation I know.

[Royce]

I'm still leaning more and more to these sets NOT being mix/matched. Someone said that Thade said in a town that there might be set bonuses in the future. 3 degrees of separation I know.

Yeah I was there, Thade did say that. Anyway, at least with the Int gear, no mixing or matching makes any sense. Heal gives you the equivalent of enormous health regen, and mages die from big crits or big hits in a series, never slow depletion of health, so H/s is by far the least important stat for them (maybe a pally could make some use of it, but tue M/s would still be worlds better). The crafted Str and Dex items might make sense for PvP, or in mixed sets, buy I still think the crafted stats need help, and the Int gear in particular.

[Nightarcher]

(using Dex gear as an example)

I think the problem is that Level 55 pinks, crafted and uncrafted, are not superior to mere orange and purple items which have more damage and armor.

Endgame pinks need a distinctive edge over all other gear. Particularly some additional armor and m/s. And crafted pinks need to increase the usefulness as well.

[Royce]

(using Dex gear as an example)

I think the problem is that Level 55 pinks, crafted and uncrafted, are not superior to mere orange and purple items which have more damage and armor.

Endgame pinks need a distinctive edge over all other gear. Particularly some additional armor and m/s. And crafted pinks need to increase the usefulness as well.

I agree except for Int gear, where the pinks have high armor and mana regen, but that's a separate issue really. This is simply about the pinks vs crafted pinks. The issue of purples, greens and oranges (not to mention the lvl 50 pinks) being superior in some cases to the new pinks is another topic, and perhaps you should start another thread ;)

Edit: Oh and I just found out crafted pinks do not differ in appearance from uncrafted ones which is kind of disappointing. I think they should look unique a well.

[Nightarcher]

I agree except for Int gear, where the pinks have high armor and mana regen, but that's a separate issue really. This is simply about the pinks vs crafted pinks. The issue of purples, greens and oranges (not to mention the lvl 50 pinks) being superior in some cases to the new pinks is another topic, and perhaps you should start another thread ;)

Edit: Oh and I just found out crafted pinks do not differ in appearance from uncrafted ones which is kind of disappointing. I think they should look unique a well.

Good idea, I'll make a separate thread. :)

[MITSUISUN]

Agree, crafted pink need to have different appearance... or perhaps they make it this way in anticipation of new elite dungeon following just like the SC set.

I hate mix/match as well, but i guess for a game like this, mixing builds and stats to suit individual players need is fun, but for me it's a headache heh

[ghostface]

I don't understand why there has to be a trade-off at all. I would think the idea of crafting should be taking a base item and enhancing that item to improve it either in areas where it lacks or just improving it all around. Taking an overpriced item that's only "okay" to begin with then spending a ridiculous amount of coin to craft it and be left with an item that is still just "okay" but in a different way just doesn't make much sense.

So say dex gear starts out with good dmg/crit/and decent H/S but is seriously lacking in M/S def and dodge. In theory the reward for the effort of crafting the item should be that what made the pink decent to begin with should stay and should enhance what it sorely lacks. Give it the M/S that isn't there, or a def increase or dodge without sacrificing anything. Some of the 55 pink armor (for dex anyway) is missing 12+ defense points over what were the best pinks 5 levels lower. And stat increases don't give health/dodge/armor to make up for the deficiency.

[Norbert]

I agree that crafting items should just improve them, not trade specs. Hopefully this first step into crafting will provide some feedback and real (PL) world experience that the devs can study and use to enhance the system going forward. It's a great start and I'm sure it will only get better.

I'd love to see it look more like this. You have a level 55 sword, for example, that has slots for 4 gems. You could configure those with whichever gems you like to customize it how you need for your build. Maybe that would be tricky to balance, I don't know. But boy, I'd sure work hard to craft items if that were the case.

[Sigkill]

There seems to be a lot of concern over the "lose one attribute, gain another attribute" aspect in crafting lv 55 pink items. While we saw that this was a unique addition to the game, the realization of which attributes were being lost and which were gained is actually deterring players from creating these new pinks (thus defeating the point of crafting them altogether).

For DEX/archer stuff: Sacrifice 6 damage per equip, gain 6 H/s + 2 dex per equip
For INT/mage stuff: Sacrifice 8 M/s per equip, gain 8 H/s + 2 int per equip
For STR/bear stuff: Sacrifice 6 dodge + 6 m/s per equip, gain 8 damage + 2 str + 2 armor + 2 h/s per equip

We do note that crafting new lv 55 pinks helps make our weaknesses better by sacrificing our strengths; e.g. archer gains survivability, bear gains attack, mage gains survivability.

But we feel that the crafted pinks hurt more than heal:

The dex/archer pinks have such a low defense that a 6 H/s gain over a loss of 6 damage doesn't even matter because archers will still die very easily.
The int/mage pinks lose out on M/s, which means mana shield, a skill very commonly used to ensure survivability in tough dungeons and bosses, is severely handicapped.
The str/bear pinks turn a mediocre damaging bear into an above-average mediocre damaging bear. The 24 damage gain pales in comparison to the 24 percent dodge loss, rendering the bear into a less useful tank (what he is supposed to do best).

Because of these debilitating features of the new crafted pinks, many of us are reluctant to shell out the time, money, and effort into creating crafted pinks.

We believe that another stat can be lost in place, or instead of stats being lost at all it can only be gained through lv 55 crafting:

1. Dex/archer: Lose damage, but increase defense instead of H/s OR Increase defense only (no damage loss)
2. Int/mage: Have the lv 55 lootable pinks have more damage (and no M/s), but increase M/s by sacrificing damage through crafting OR Increase damage only (no M/s loss)
3. Str/bear: Have the lv 55 lootable pinks have more damage (and no Dodge), but increase Dodge by sacrificing damage through crafting OR Increase damage only (no Dodge loss)

Those suggestions are just what I thought up on the spot, I'm sure other players may have much better suggestions than what I have stated. But case-in-point, we believe that the lv 55 crafted pinks should be more enticing to get. Thank you for your time.

hate to necro an old thread, but its 32 damage added not 24, however fortfied still blows no matter what

[Physiologic]

hate to necro an old thread, but its 32 damage added not 24, however fortfied still blows no matter what

Yeah they boosted fury fighter gear stats in one patch but I forgot to change the damage part...thanks :)

[Nightarcher]

I think that while crafted gear isn't as good as it should be, and bears still have archers' dodge (grumbles...), people don't give the crafted gear enough credit.

Enchanted gear-- Ok, yes this one might legitimately be useless. Less M/s means less spamming heal and drain life and defensive skills too, which > the H/s. So don't use this.

Custom gear-- As an archer, I know we need as much damage as possible. But when you take into account you sacrifice a measly 16 damage out of over 250, and you still have 43-45 unbuffed crit with the set bonus, it's not gunna kill you. Yes, I use a custom auto-bow set and I find its 22 H/s extremely useful in almost every circumstance, and notice little difference in damage output.

Fortified gear-- Personally I think this is the most useful set out of the crafted bunch. Why? Well, the loss of M/s won't hurt bears who aren't potion-guzzling beasts like birds; the set bonus M/s is enough. And as for dodge... Well, the extra 8 H/s offsets some. And when you have 170+ unbuffed armor, and an extra 32 damage, it won't be the end. Plus with a good bear who knows his crowd control, the extra damage can help the party out a lot, particularly in keeping boss aggro off others.

--

So there you have it, my opinion. Maybe partially biased, but whatever. It's all up to personal preference, but I think unless you're a Mage, give crafting a chance. You might be surprised. ;)