What is the etiquette for running in a party? [Archive]

whizzyrich

12-07-2014, 12:52 PM

Thanks for the tips guys!

I noticed that rogues appreciate the mana but warriors seem to get upset and leave the party. Sometimes I try to back off so I am not getting all of the kills but it doesn't seem to help. Seems to work best when there is a warrior just trying to clear the map and not concerned with kills.

I'll try to keep Ethyl happy and use potions but often I'm killed so fast I don't have a chance to use potions.

I tried ice but lightening seemed to work better. I know different mages have different preferences. If there is more that I can do for a party let me know. All tips are appreciated!

Serancha

12-07-2014, 01:59 PM

Lose heal. Rogues need to learn to be self-sufficient earlier than level 41. Fire, Ice, Lightning, Clock. No such thing as kill stealing in pve. If people care about kills, they can go solo.

As gem said, don't go afk in a map, don't join a party and then ask people to wait because you then decide to make a cup of tea. Stay with the group, don't go running off on your own (this is highly annoying) and thank the party for the runs after you're done. Basic manners.

If a warrior gets huffy about kills, he is clearly playing the wrong class. Nothing to do with you.

Xorrior

12-07-2014, 03:20 PM

I give you one tip that I give to all mages....

You are not a mana provider! These pots cost you money!

Anyone wants mana tell them to buy pots!

Dex Scene

12-07-2014, 03:22 PM

I like making coffee in the middle of a map. Anyway jokes apart, if warriors get upset because you are stealing kills, say him to go solo. You shouldn't stay back so you dont seal kills, you should stay back so you don't get hit the most. Mages are most squishy class, stay back only for that!
Warriors mostly do seem to have argument with mages everytime that's my personal experiences in pugs lol.
But yeah get ice. Keep lightning. Use lightning at bosses.
My mage said goodbye to lifegiver at level 34. You should too earlier or later!

ClumsyCactus

12-07-2014, 03:24 PM

Dex Scene

12-07-2014, 03:31 PM

As long as i'm concerned I have 3 rules for mages to be in my party.
1. Dont be underleveled, and since you are leveling atm thats NP
2. HAVE SHIELD. If you dont have shield, im not running with you.
The reason is lvl 38 shieldless mages fighting paraselcus and complaining about dying.
3. dont go AFK/type during serious fights.
Omg 2nd point!!!
Reminds me the good old times (not real good tho).
lots of mages in pug i met, couldnt cross the pool. "I dont have shield" like whattha

ClumsyCactus

12-07-2014, 03:44 PM

Omg 2nd point!!!
Reminds me the good old times (not real good tho).
lots of mages in pug i met, couldnt cross the pool. "I dont have shield" like whattha
Yeah, and they wouldnt leave EITHER, they would be like "K ill guard then" *DIES*
It took me just a few days to stop with pugs because of these mages.
Ran the second week of event ONLY in partys Where i made sure mages could pass.

whizzyrich

12-07-2014, 03:46 PM

Thanks for all of the tips guys.

As long as I'm being fair and not breaking any etiquette, though I can certainly understand why warriors might walk. Seems like rogues might be the most balanced class. Tanks are a must for mages but it seems unfair that the tanks are taking all of the heat while the mages get the highest percentage of kills. Are warriors compensated in some other manner?

Healing is there mostly because I am running solo alot and I rather heal than keep paying for pots. I use shield mostly in tombs but maybe there are better ways to run. Thx again for all of the advice!

Dex Scene

12-07-2014, 03:50 PM

Yeah, and they wouldnt leave EITHER, they would be like "K ill guard then" *DIES*
It took me just a few days to stop with pugs because of these mages.
Ran the second week of event ONLY in partys Where i made sure mages could pass.

Lol yeap they wouldn't leave and always wanting to guard. Truce!

Wutzgood

12-07-2014, 03:59 PM

Omg 2nd point!!!
Reminds me the good old times (not real good tho).
lots of mages in pug i met, couldnt cross the pool. "I dont have shield" like whattha

I don't use shield but wind worked for getting across pools fighting para.

Dex Scene

12-07-2014, 04:10 PM

I don't use shield but wind worked for getting across pools fighting para.
Was talking about some mages in pug who didnt have gale either. Also some got cornerd while gale forcing and stuck in the pool and dieing. Shield also saved from those spike at para! Its a necessary skill for a middle class mage!

Wutzgood

12-07-2014, 04:17 PM

Was talking about some mages in pug who didnt have gale either. Also some got cornerd while gale forcing and stuck in the pool and dieing. Shield also saved from those spike at para! Its a necessary skill for a middle class mage!

Lol I did run into some of those mages. Even with a warrior guarding and shielding them they would die crossing. Was just pointing out gale works also lol.

whizzyrich

12-07-2014, 04:34 PM

Thanks guys! When should I start adding gale based upon my current stats shown above (just added 1 to my shield to increase damage protect by 15%). Thx again.

Otahaanak

12-07-2014, 07:04 PM

Add Ice first IMO. I know you said you prefer light, but to me Ice is as effective as clock in some situations and is great if you solo ( which you said you are doing).

Gale is a skill that takes time to master and use effectively, and is often used instead of fire.

My .02

ilhanna

12-07-2014, 07:40 PM

Yes, get ice asap. You can freeze pesky fast hard hitting enemies like shadowmancers in Shuyal with it, the crabs in Kraken Isles, the shamans and dragkins in Tindirin, making it relatively safer for you to go into the mob (stunned with fireball first) to drop your clock.

Kreasadriii

12-07-2014, 07:57 PM

Ever thought about number 2 too, but I tried with no shield and heal.
It is possible to through pool while last paracelsus event. (not only middle class mage, im newbie and done it)
Just charged gale force, done it! As long as know the blue light on the floor, keep moving while fighting it can avoid the spikes.

It also can through planar tombs lvl 1 and 2, I'm not yet go lvl 3, will try it soon. ;) hope it can

whizzyrich

12-07-2014, 08:43 PM

OK guys. Thx for the advice. Will unlock ice on next level up.

Leambow

12-07-2014, 08:49 PM

I'm a war but here is my advice, your job is to be the support of the party help your teammates out while your war (if you have one) tanks damage
Best of luck

Newcomx

12-07-2014, 10:51 PM

At this level, you should drop lifegiver for shield, lightning for ice (except if you often run solo, because lightning good for boss, usually rogue do most damage on boss).

SacredKnight

12-07-2014, 10:58 PM

One rule for being a mage in a party:

Don't die. Too much.

Kreasadriii

12-07-2014, 11:09 PM

One rule for being a mage in a party:

Don't die. Too much.

If die, don't pretend sleeping or parents calling. lmfao ;)

whizzyrich

12-07-2014, 11:30 PM

Lol. Trust me, dying is no fun. But working on getting some health and armor. Thx.

asikum

12-08-2014, 02:09 PM

Every class has a job. As a mage, this varies depending on the type of party and level you are in. I am assuming you have encountered some uneducated/inexpierenced players which can shake your confidence. The fact you are posting for advice shows alot to your character. I would rather play with someone willing to learn anyday. This is a game. With time you will find your groove and what works for you. Ignore the people screaming. Real mentors will show you better ways and talk to you nicely, give advice on skills/build, gear, pets, etc. Add me if you want ign: asikum

Killfreeak

12-08-2014, 02:52 PM

Hey, just a tip about your build and where you have chosen to assign your points. Your stat points should all be assigned to intelligence. It gives you the most damage and is your primary stat point.

Your main skill should be your arcane shield. It means you can survive longer as it stops incoming damage. I suggest putting 5/5 points on this skill. Remember to charge your shield always, to make it stronger, and to give you 2 seconds of invulnerability (where you take absolutely no damage for 2 seconds).
Dont forget about passive points either. You only have 4 slots where you can map skills, so you should only be using 4 skills. As i can see, you already have 5. The 4 skills i suggest you to use (at this level) are: fireball, arcane shield, lifegiver(heal), and timeshift. Use 5/5 on all of the skills EXCEPT for heal. You only require 2 points on heal; for unlocking the skill, and unlock the effect, empower (mana). After that, the rest of the points are quite useless.
Now back to passive points. You should firstly give yourself 5/5 knowledge (intelligence). This is your primary stat and is going to have the most effect. Secondly, you should then get 5/5 might (strength). This skill is going to give you more health and will make your arcane shield stronger.

After that, you can choose to assign your points on pretty much anything except for movement speed/quickness and damage. Both these passives are a waste of points. As you have ethyl (which happiness' bonus gives you damage %), the damage passive would be absolutely useless. The effect of this passive doesn't stack with pet effects, so therefore i would strongly advise not to use this passive. As for movement speed, it also doesnt stack with the happiness bonus of pets which provide movement speed. Also, there is almost no point on using this, as you will barely notice 5% of movement speed if you don't use a pet which boosts your movement speed.

If you aren't happy with my build, there are loads of forum posts which have indepth explanations for beginners and good builds which are designed especially for mage and PvE. This build is purely a basic build which will make levelling a lot easier for you, with a lot less deaths ;)

Candylicks

12-08-2014, 03:41 PM

There is a lot of bad advice in this thread.

1. Shield + heal is really bad for a mage trying to level. Don't you want to do some damage and blow through maps? Yeah thought so, don't use shield + heal. In my experience shield is really more for end game ELITE maps. I personally would not put any points in shield until you are lvl 40 running elites.

2. Light > ice for now. Light will proc chain lightning for you! You don't need to worry about icing anyone, again that is more of an end game ELITE map skill. The mages posting here are getting confused between powerful shaman in elite tindirin and the tiddly mobs you are killing. Light will do more damage on mobs hence you complete maps quicker.

3. CLOCK is your most important skill. You want 4/5 (no explode) and always charge and drop it in the middle of the mobs.

As for running w/ a party I used heal to give mana to my group because as new players begin arlor the cost to buy potions is a struggle for some. Yes you can say hey buy pots or you can spec heal for now. With that said, you should remove that out of build before elites. Do as much damage as you can, try to not die. No one cares about who kills what when you are leveling. Have fun! Welcome to Arlor!

Otahaanak

12-08-2014, 04:38 PM

Actually Candy, Light and Ice have the same damage. The additional skill points is what takes light up over all other mage skills for damage. It's why many go to light instead of clock for bosses. And the chained lightening is only a 25% chance at best on a kill. Frost always freezes the enemy (with a few exceptions of course) But u know that :-) Then again I'm a huge fan of ice. But that doesn't mean the advice is all bad

Whizzy, like someone else in this thread pointed out, the simple fact that you asked is huge.

Personally, I never ran with shield until I started running higher level elites - Nordr and up, but then again I was lucky to run with good tanks. By the time I got to Nordr I was just dying too often not to spec it. Heal was the same, and I only spec it if I'm going to PVP.

Good luck to ya Whizz, hopefully you'll enjoy your time in Arlor.

whizzyrich

12-08-2014, 05:15 PM

Hi guys. Thanks again for all of the terrific advice. Really appreciate the time you take to help me out.

Briefly, this is my experience so far so maybe you can give me a bit more guidance on where I might focus my efforts both on leveling and spec-ing.

1) Lightening seems to do more damage and seems to be a better long range weapon when I am soloing the maps. I also use it as a pull device. It would be great to know specifically where ice is preferred.

2) I am quite squishy do when I do go, I go fast. I am working on gradually improving health and strength. Any advice on gear would be appreciated.

3) The players I party with most often hate me, especially warriors but also rogues, and leave a run because I am taking too many kills. I don't know what I can do until I clear some more higher level maps which is difficult since I am mostly solo by the time I get to the boss.

4) I am using heal for maps, to save pots, and shield when running the tombs. Again, usually solo. Should I spec in more heal to help team when I am in one?

Thanks again for all of the help.

Current config:
111064
111058

Serancha

12-08-2014, 06:03 PM

Check out the sorcerer section for tips.

Candylicks

12-08-2014, 06:16 PM

Actually Candy, Light and Ice have the same damage. The additional skill points is what takes light up over all other mage skills for damage. It's why many go to light instead of clock for bosses. And the chained lightening is only a 25% chance at best on a kill. Frost always freezes the enemy (with a few exceptions of course) But u know that :-) Then again I'm a huge fan of ice. But that doesn't mean the advice is all bad

Wrong. Light is a Mage highest single target damage spell and does 250% damage on crit which makes it higher dmg than ice. The chain light proc 25% vs. ice wielder 20%. I am not a fan of ice except in elites when yes there is some validity to running ice and slowing some of the hard hitting mobs.

To the OP- the best way to mage is how you prefer and we all have different ways that we create our build. Sera is right the mage forums are wealth of information. Also I have never encountered other people getting mad at me taking kills, but maybe things have changed since I leveled a toon.

whizzyrich

12-08-2014, 06:35 PM

Thanks for the ideas everyone.

I frequently go to the sorcerer forum searching for ideas, but this particular question I thought I might pose in the general discussion area hoping to get some input from waits and rogues who may not visit the sorcerer forum. Particularly other players who are at my level and running the same maps. Do they look for mana? Do they get upset when I am getting the kills. More fairly, I believe everyone should get credit of they assist in a kill.

Serancha

12-08-2014, 06:43 PM

If people are worried about kills, they should be soloing. End of story.

whizzyrich

12-08-2014, 06:54 PM

OK. If I'm behaving according to common etiquette then I'll just keep doing what I am doing. I guess I'll have to figure out how to clear some of the nasty maps solo. ☺

ilhanna

12-08-2014, 06:57 PM

When I was leveling my mage the only issue I have with warrior and rogue was that I didn't heal their mana. I had warriors leaving map in a huff when I told them to use pots. This was why when I was leveling I soloed a lot.

As a warrior, when I was leveling, my only issue was with mages who used gale to scatter mobs then flitted away, shielded, then healed, and did no crowd control whatsoever. Kill stealing was never an issue for me. Lack of killing on the part of some of the mages (due to bad build/skills/gear) was.

whizzyrich

12-08-2014, 07:07 PM

whizzyrich

12-08-2014, 07:13 PM

I truly believe that Ice is the most important skill (and first to be unlocked) for a new player (at level 2). Although, light has the highest damage output, ice is more for survivability. Ice saves money on potions (which is very needed for new players) and it not only helps keep the mage alive but also other players. I would say the next most important is clock, then fire, then heal. Remember, HP and Mana regen very quickly when players are at low levels.

I would unlock in this order: Ice, then upgrade ice to give dot then extend duration of ice. Next unlock clock, root, dot. Then Fire, knockdown, dot. Then heal, mana upgrade. After that 5/5 clock then, then one can unlock lightning, 15% and 250% then electric discharge. After that, put points in shield (all but knock back). Then points in passives. Once a player is ready for elites, a new build is needed but I think this is a good way to approach leveling a mage for a beginner.

Thanks for sharing your approach. Given my specs above would you recommend that I focus on ice now or upgrading passive health. I briefly used ice and didn't find the stun as useful as obliterating the toons with lightening but maybe I was using it wrong? Also, I just leveled. Should I use the one point I have for mana heal our ice?

I know there are many approaches but at this point just looking at it from the POV of playing on a team. Thx again!

Newcomx

12-08-2014, 08:10 PM

Thanks for sharing your approach. Given my specs above would you recommend that I focus on ice now or upgrading passive health. I briefly used ice and didn't find the stun as useful as obliterating the toons with lightening but maybe I was using it wrong? Also, I just leveled. Should I use the one point I have for mana heal our ice?

I know there are many approaches but at this point just looking at it from the POV of playing on a team. Thx again!

Maybe you not using ice correctly... My combo using Sorc skill... charged fire and released to stun, charged ice and go in the middle of mobs, released it in the middle of mobs, then drop charged time shift.. I change ice/time shift to lightning when fight for single boss with no mobs.

whizzyrich

12-08-2014, 09:29 PM

Thx guys. Can you share with me the ice upgrades that you use? Appreciate the tips.

whizzyrich

12-09-2014, 12:19 AM

Unlock ice and the only 2 upgrades you need are jagged ice and shiver.

Thanks!

GoodSyntax

12-09-2014, 01:16 AM

Why does everyone hate gale? Yes, it requires some experience to learn how to use it correctly, but it is an additional knockdown skill, increases armor and gives a temporary speed boost.

A Sorc with great CC skills is appreciated by everyone. And, if someone can't realize you are doing your job well, then don't run with those people. If everyone does their jobs right, runs are easy. If tanks think they are the DMG class, rogue aren't prioritizing kills, and sorcs can't control mobs, then that is a party doomed to failure.

Ice, Fireball, Clock and Gale are my preferred map clearing skills. If you want to swap Gale for Lightening at bosses, that's fine, but personally, I would rather apply the extra skill points on armor or crit passives.

But then again, what do I know, I'm just a noob rogue...

GuardianTwo

12-09-2014, 01:20 AM

But then again, what do I know, I'm just a noob(there is a pro word hidden under that :P ) rogue...
:) :) :)

Serancha

12-09-2014, 01:32 AM

Gale is so frequently misused. Nothing worse than rogues and warrior using Whim, Traps and Veil to get all the mobs in a nice group and debuffed for killing, only to have a mage come along, blow them all to hell and gone, then fireball them in place, so you have to run around killing them all individually. That is why people hate gale.

I have only met a couple of mages who use it courteously and can make it beneficial to a party.

Otahaanak

12-09-2014, 10:31 AM

For those confused on now much damage ice does vs. light, here are a couple of screenshots :)

As I said earlier, It's only when you add the additional skill points into light that it's damage potential goes up over all of our mage skills. Shiny explained well why ice is so effective. No axe to grind here, just want to make sure those who actually read this stuff are not misinformed. Cheers :)

111078111079

regizakirs.rs

12-09-2014, 11:42 AM

I give you one tip that I give to all mages....

You are not a mana provider! These pots cost you money!

Anyone wants mana tell them to buy pots!
I'm a rogue and I agree with that! +1

Otahaanak

12-09-2014, 11:58 AM

@Shiny - agreed 100%. But my understanding is that you only get that 250% damage on crit IF you have put the skill point into the the 250% on crit upgrade. If that's not the case, then I need to respec :)

We are saying the same thing. It was pointed out twice that I was wrong on the damage - when I'm not. You'll get no argument from me that light is not the single highest damage skill we have - I've said three times now that it is.

whizzyrich

12-09-2014, 12:40 PM

Thanks everyone for the excellent info. I guess it comes down to a couple of things for me:

1) Should I upgrade health to provide mana for the party? The consensus seems to be no.

2) Should I unlock ice or add 250% critical on lightening? I guess this is still a matter of debate.

As an aside, I was invited and joined a guild this morning but I was totally lost, so I left. Such is the life of a noob.☺. Going to have to figure this out by myself with the great assist from members on this forum. Thx!