Poor hit rate!!

[Christina]

I try to eq fury armor lvl 55.. And i found out tat the hit rate is so low that i couldnt do anything or pvp.. With onli 80hit rate what else could u do?

[Physiologic]

Lv 55 equips doesn't necessarily mean better, for instance the lv 50 Sentinel talon/wing is a lot better than the lv 55 pink talon/wing equips.

I know that the lv 55 fury equips (non-crafted) suffer a lot of hit% but I think this gear is focused more on survival due to its high dodge%.

Also keep in mind that hit% is capped at a certain percent (not sure how it works in PvP) - how often are you missing?

[Royce]

Well you're gonna need some Dex for hit. Of course for a pally there's no room for Dex, so you may want to just skip the Fury and go with some more suitable pally gear (Fury also has no mana regen). There's really not any good pally gear in BS and I'm not even gonna level mine unless some gets added.

[Christina]

I prefer hit rate den dodge.. Btw u say non craft? U mean i could mob my fury armor?

[Physiologic]

Well, you have the non-crafted level 55 fury equips, right? The ones with Dodge 8%?

The crafted level 55 fury equips don't have the 8% dodge but they have 8 damage. So you are better at tanking hits with your non-crafted level 55 fury equips..don't know what you mean by mob o.O

[Christina]

I mean crafted fury hav hit percent added???

[Physiologic]

I mean crafted fury hav hit percent added???

Nope, only 8 damage is added but you lose the 8 Dodge for it.

[Jsaieagle]

Nope, only 8 damage is added but you lose the 8 Dodge for it.


It means crafting fury will convert the 8 dodge into 8 damage

[MoonYeol]

The Lv 55 gears are a bit too "extreme". They're not balanced like Lv 50 sets, regular or from Shadow Caves. These sets are all about specializing the classes. Bears have Fury Fighter's to survive, to be able to tank insane dmg. With the great dodge %, h/s and armor, bears will last for a decade without potting. Mages have huge h/s, more dmg, more armor but the hit % suffers a lot. So actually, the sets counteract pure builds. They need balancing. If you want to be pure, then you're not going to be as effective overall as someone who balances int with dex to gain the extra hit %. Birds will be more fragile but have a huge dmg output and enormous crit. Hit % caps somewhere around ≤100 %. In PvP it's important to have ≥100 % because of the debuffs. Can't stress this enough.

So, the Lv 55 sets won't fit everybody. A good bear has a hate set or rift and a fury fighter's set, one for doing some dmg and one for pure tanking capabilities. Mages don't really need more than the Lv 55 set, complete with staff and wand/bracer. Birds might have to choose to wield dual sets. Since it's possible to dual wield Lv 55 sets, why not go str/dex? Since Lv 55 sets have huge dmg, hit and crit. The lost dex won't matter too much, the extra armor and hp from str is a welcome addition. I actually like the new sets but they're not meant for pure builds. (If you're going to tank for a living, never doing any dmg...)

[Echelong]

New sets stats seem like they where rushed and not really planned like the AO3 sets (rift, void and Cosmos). These sets have just some random stats and not truly useful. They are better only when comparing armor but all the rest is just badly allocated.

[Moogerfooger]

The lost dex won't matter too much, the extra armor and hp from str is a welcome addition.

I thought the same at one point, then Physiologic smacked me around and showed me the light; the bird is made for pure damage/DPS. Lower dex also decreases the effects of the bird skills as far as I think has been discussed, which are crucial to the bird's effectiveness as well.

I know that once I switched to pure dex, I did way more ( or seemed way more) damage overall...just have to watch your health and change tactics a little. No bear-charging with a bird into a mob :D My k/d ratio has actually improved.

[MoonYeol]

I thought the same at one point, then Physiologic smacked me around and showed me the light; the bird is made for pure damage/DPS. Lower dex also decreases the effects of the bird skills as far as I think has been discussed, which are crucial to the bird's effectiveness as well.

I know that once I switched to pure dex, I did way more ( or seemed way more) damage overall...just have to watch your health and change tactics a little. No bear-charging with a bird into a mob :D My k/d ratio has actually improved.

It will affect your dmg, that's true. However, as far as I'm concerned, the majority of the dmg is actually from your weapon. I didn't lose more than maybe 10-15 (max 20) dmg when I swapped from pure mage into int/dex. The added dex improved my hit, my armor and my attack dmg. Ofc, if you're just out to do the best dmg you can, go pure dex. If you want to be a bit more versatile and survive without having to pot once every 0.01 second (YES I'm exaggerating.) you should try something else. If you're strictly a farmer in Plasma Pyramid. Maybe you don't need the extra armor, you just need to kill VERY fast.
If you're running Sewers with some random parties, maybe you want to be able to wear a hate set if the tank sucks the big one. 139 points in str will also give you some extra hp and h/s. Something birds have quite little of.

Make a comparison, if you have 2 platinum to spare. Compare the stats before and after a change into hybrid/dual wield. Then tell me what you think of the decline in dmg and dps.

[Physiologic]

I thought the same at one point, then Physiologic smacked me around and showed me the light; the bird is made for pure damage/DPS. Lower dex also decreases the effects of the bird skills as far as I think has been discussed, which are crucial to the bird's effectiveness as well.

I know that once I switched to pure dex, I did way more ( or seemed way more) damage overall...just have to watch your health and change tactics a little. No bear-charging with a bird into a mob :D My k/d ratio has actually improved.

Huh...what did I do ?_?

[MoonYeol]

Huh...what did I do ?_?

Maybe you really did show him the light. You're some kind of Messias. I should build a shrine in your honor and worship you by sacrificing grapes and two Hello Kitty socks.

No but seriously, I think something you wrote had a huge impact on that guy ;)

[StompArtist]

Huh...what did I do ?_?

I think you have accidentally started your very own cult.

[MoonYeol]

I think you have accidentally started your very own cult.

Soon it will be a renowned religion.

[Moogerfooger]

Huh...what did I do ?_?

A while ago you and I were debating here the pure dex (your view) vs. the mostly dex/little bit of strength for armor's sake (my view), and I refused to admit you were probably right as far as archer's overall effectiveness :D

As last night's "death train" on the Hideout with Royce proved, pure dex is beastly in the right hands.

[MoonYeol]

A while ago you and I were debating here the pure dex (your view) vs. the mostly dex/little bit of strength for armor's sake (my view), and I refused to admit you were probably right as far as archer's overall effectiveness :D

As last night's "death train" on the Hideout with Royce proved, pure dex is beastly in the right hands.

Pure dex is better for pure devastation. If you want to be able to do more things in life than just kill things... like... survive. You might consider going 50/50 dex/str. I'm not talking about getting 2 extra point in armor. I'm talking dual sets. Going hybrid with 15 points extra in str and 10 in int is just... well... Go figure.

[Moogerfooger]

Make a comparison, if you have 2 platinum to spare. Compare the stats before and after a change into hybrid/dual wield. Then tell me what you think of the decline in dmg and dps.

I have already done this...for a while I was mostly dex/some strength (I don't recall the exact numbers but I think I had about 60 strength, the rest dex) and I can emphatically say that I believe pure dex is more effective overall. I do not have to jam pots nonstop, although in certain maps I do more than others. Not only is DPS higher, but the skills/combos seem to pack more of a punch (how much, I will leave someone smarter than me to figure out). I just had to learn to not kamikazebanzaioohlookasquirrelplow into a mob, because my original toon was a bear and I have a tendency to charge in naturally. Once I started paying more attention to my placement in the party/tactics, the pot jamming and dying decreased signficantly after I switched to all dex.

Not to mention I have the death talon and shield set with 125-130ish armor with a ring equipped and still 225+ DPS, in case I need to tough out certain areas....so I don't need those base extra few armor points at the sacrifice of hit, crit and damage.

I have also dual spec-ed str/dex on my archer, and the large loss of damage and impact from skills took away from the entire point of the archer class...you know, to kill stuff, especially tough single targets.

Not saying you don't have a good argument and it works well from experience, just trying to show a different side of the story.

[Moogerfooger]

Pure dex is better for pure devastation. If you want to be able to do more things in life than just kill things... like... survive. You might consider going 50/50 dex/str. I'm not talking about getting 2 extra point in armor. I'm talking dual sets. Going hybrid with 15 points extra in str and 10 in int is just... well... Go figure.

I survive just fine, thanks :) if you want to openly debate something let's roll, but it seems you have already made up your mind and are not open to hearing someone else's viewpoint.

[Gluttony]

A while ago you and I were debating here the pure dex (your view) vs. the mostly dex/little bit of strength for armor's sake (my view), and I refused to admit you were probably right as far as archer's overall effectiveness :D

As last night's "death train" on the Hideout with Royce proved, pure dex is beastly in the right hands.

Dex bird is 'bout it 'bout it! All aboard the death train.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3179/img0416m.png

[Moogerfooger]

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3179/img0416m.png

I just realized that Physio was just standing there....that bum. 30 lashes with a wet spaghetti noodle are in order.

Either that or he was cheesing for the camera.

[Physiologic]

Ah, I love the Death Train :)

I personally think that STR/DEX birds are a thing of the past (even moreso with the advent of the Sentinel set's set bonus). The Talon/Wing combination now boasts an incredible 124 armor w/ full dex at level 55 (it was 116 armor before). Birds can tank just as well as STR/DEX birds with this equip set and not have to sacrifice any normal damage nor skill damage loss.

I think I was wiping the sweat off my thumbs during that pic, btw...

[Gluttony]

Ah, I love the Death Train :)

I personally think that STR/DEX birds are a thing of the past (even moreso with the advent of the Sentinel set's set bonus). The Talon/Wing combination now boasts an incredible 124 armor w/ full dex at level 55 (it was 116 armor before). Birds can tank just as well as STR/DEX birds with this equip set and not have to sacrifice any normal damage nor skill damage loss.

I think I was wiping the sweat off my thumbs during that pic, btw...

116, are you sure? This is what I have before and after, maybe a mage snuck a buff in on me when I wasn't looking. With all that armor, maybe we won't all get wiped out by a firetrap again.

[Moogerfooger]

Ah, I love the Death Train :)

I personally think that STR/DEX birds are a thing of the past (even moreso with the advent of the Sentinel set's set bonus). The Talon/Wing combination now boasts an incredible 124 armor w/ full dex at level 55 (it was 116 armor before). Birds can tank just as well as STR/DEX birds with this equip set and not have to sacrifice any normal damage nor skill damage loss.

I think I was wiping the sweat off my thumbs during that pic, btw...

Yeah, I am sitting with 252 DPS/125 armor or 236 DPS/133 armor depending on what ring I am using while having the Sentinel Talon set equipped. Pretty stout and still deal decent damage, if I pay attention.

Yes, the Death Train was a riot..I'm always down for runs.

[Physiologic]

Hmm I've had 116 in my comparison chart and I double checked it a couple of times for consistency, it could possibly be a mage's buff. I'll look through for pictures of me with the equips on prior to the patch when I get home.

[Royce]

So actually, the sets counteract pure builds. They need balancing. If you want to be pure, then you're not going to be as effective overall as someone who balances int with dex to gain the extra hit %.

This is flat out untrue. A pure Mage by level 55 will have nearly 100% hit just going pure Int. A pure bird will obviously have no issues with hit%. It is only true of pure tanks, and pure tanks don't need high hit% anyway unless try want to PvP, and PvP tanks have already been putting Dex in their builds anyway.

[StompArtist]

This is flat out untrue. A pure Mage by level 55 will have nearly 100% hit just going pure Int. A pure bird will obviously have no issues with hit%. It is only true of pure tanks, and pure tanks don't need high hit% anyway unless try want to PvP, and PvP tanks have already been putting Dex in their builds anyway.

Pure INT gives you high hit%. What you have to be careful of is when making a STR Mage that you do not end up with low hit%. As far as I can tell only STR affects hit% in an adverse fashion.

[Royce]

Pure INT gives you high hit%. What you have to be careful of is when making a STR Mage that you do not end up with low hit%. As far as I can tell only STR affects hit% in an adverse fashion.

Absolutely. As I said earlier the people who suffer the most from the new gear stats are pallys (above I was responding to a post saying pures suffer). Pallys need Str to equip their gear but get hardly any useful stats from it. Then they have to decide if they want Int for skill damage, mana, mana regen, etc. or Dex to get their Hit% up and there just aren't enough attribute points to get both satisfactorily high.

[Echelong]

Absolutely. As I said earlier the people who suffer the most from the new gear stats are pallys (above I was responding to a post saying pures suffer). Pallys need Str to equip their gear but get hardly any useful stats from it. Then they have to decide if they want Int for skill damage, mana, mana regen, etc. or Dex to get their Hit% up and there just aren't enough attribute points to get both satisfactorily high.

Yep I am thinking of going pure if I really want to use the new sets or just dual with hate set and new mage gear. New items ain't that good as far as I would like them so I will wait or see if the devs change the stats.

[MITSUISUN]

Yeah, I am sitting with 252 DPS/125 armor or 236 DPS/133 armor depending on what ring I am using while having the Sentinel Talon set equipped. Pretty stout and still deal decent damage, if I pay attention.

Yes, the Death Train was a riot..I'm always down for runs.

Death Train only leaves the station when certain xxx death announces :p
or in my case, my friend macro "boomboomboom" at 2nd cave's 3 firepits, 2/3 of times i will end up dead there.
poor birds gets BBQed easy

[MoonYeol]

Well, now with the set bonus on the Death Set, it's true that talon makes a sturdy set. So I'm prepared to withdraw that statement. It's probably better to use a talon and keep the range than to swap to a melee str set. So that fault is on me. Actually I've always used a pure int mage and a pure dex bird. (The bird is still pure dex and will remain so.) However, with the Lv 55 staff my hit went down to 93 % which I feel is a bit low. So I made the radical decision to go 50/50 int/dex. The points I lost in int were compensated by the fact that dex adds more to base dmg than int does. Since it's base dmg + skill dmg + stat driven dmg that makes up the dmg of a skill/spell. The change wasn't more than 10-15 points.

I just checked now and I'm sry if I said something that wasn't true. Since dex is the skill that boosts dmg the most, you should just max it. I didn't have my facts backed up. For mages however, if you're using a staff. Either be happy with your 93% hit, get a ring to boost it with 2% or spec some dex.