Rogue Stats - I am so lost

[Speetz13]

Alright it is very simple; I know DEX is obviously the most important stat (though exactly why and what it affects wouldn't be bad to throw in in an answer to my topic, or for the sake of the thread) but what about the other two?

STR changes health and... What else does it do for us? Damage but only half what DEX does?

INT gives more mana and regen I am assuming? If so how much and at what rate?

After we establish the basics here to these two stats, I am most curious what I should be focusing on; if I have two pieces of gear that are totally equal and the best I have but one favors INT the other STR which do I pick? I assume there is personal preference to this based on play style too so please elaborate as much as possible, within reason of helping the discussion and usefulness here.

Thanks in advance!


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Serancha]

Dex is primary stat for rogue. It adds dexterity, which affects damage, critical and dodge making us killing machines. It also gives us some health so we don't die when mobs look at us.

Intelligence is our secondary stat. As such, it adds mana (which we need to use skills), a bit of damage (every bit counts) AND extra health.

Strength only gives us health (HP) - but that is necessary for survival.


Typical pve build is:
All stat points in dex
Passive agility, knowledge and might all maxed
Passive crit added when you get extra points for it.

Aim / nox / pierce and your choice of veil, traps or razor


Madnex can undoubtedly provide the numbers as to how much each stat point gives at each level.


For rogue gear, potency type (dex/int) is almost always preferred. However you can use a combo of that and strength-based gear (this is usually the assault version but the names change occasionally) if you are feeling too squishy.

Use the "view stats" option in the CS window to try things on before you buy. Green is better and red is worse. Picking gear is all about finding the best balance for you. Have fun and enjoy it, because unfortunately at end-game it is currently one-size-fits-all.

[Madnex]

As a rogue:



HP
Crit
Dmg
B.Dmg
MP



1 DEX
3
.0025
.195
~0.5%
---



1 INT
5
.0015
.257
---
10



1 STR
10
---
---
---
---




Edited for clarity, bonus damage is a stacking percentage.

[Cate Welk]

Sorry, Madnex, but what does your chart have to do with every level? I am at level 40. How does that chart answer original post? Please explain. I am lost2.

[notfaded1]

Sorry, Madnex, but what does your chart have to do with every level? I am at level 40. How does that chart answer original post? Please explain. I am lost2.

Can you read? OP was asking about what the stats give you as a rogue... Madnex just laid it all out in a nice little table... this is some great into to have when you're thinking about this stuff.

[Visiting]

So, a full int rogue would have more DMG/Hp than a Dex rogue 0.0

[Madnex]

So, a full int rogue would have more DMG/Hp than a Dex rogue 0.0
No, because the damage you put out is the result of the base damage multiplied with the bonus damage%. A full INT rogue would have maybe 150% bonus damage (you start off with 105%) while a full DEX one would have around 400%. So nope.

Sorry, Madnex, but what does your chart have to do with every level? I am at level 40. How does that chart answer original post? Please explain. I am lost2.
Unsure how to respond here, hmm. Yes, these go for every level. The OP asked how much each stat DEX/INT/STR affect a rogue player so.. there they are. This information can help anyone do some calculations and decide what type of gear he wants to aim for.

If there's something I can clarify, shoot.

[kinzmet]

So, a full int rogue would have more DMG/Hp than a Dex rogue 0.0

Hi! As Madnex says, Actual Damage = Stat Damage x Bonus Damage
For example:
If you put a paracelsus gem on a leprechaun pendant you actually get more damage based on your bonus damage than what is written on the gem.
If you compute it,
Stat Damage = 7.5 dmg <-----This is from para gem
Bonus Damage = 400% <-----This is typical bonus damage of a level 41
From the formula Actual Damage = Stat Damage x Bonus Damage
We yield Actual Damage = 30 dmg!

On your stat page, you will gain +30 damage from adding a para gem on leprechaun (provided you don't have other para gems) when you equip it.

[Angelinacolie]

As a rogue:



HP
Crit
Dmg
B.Dmg
MP



1 DEX
3
.0025
.195
.005
---



1 INT
5
.0015
.257
---
10



1 STR
10
---
---
---
---




nice, thank you sir

[Speetz13]

Ok my only question left; STR helps crit? And health? And how importan is crit? Should I take raw damage bonus on gear over crit? Basically what is the best third bonus on gear after main stat bonus (STR DEX int) I was aware that DEX is first no matter what but I didn't know STR gave crit.


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Speetz13]

But thank you all so much for the help!!! I feel like those numbers should be stickied in this forum


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UndeadJudge]

Ok my only question left; STR helps crit? And health? And how importan is crit? Should I take raw damage bonus on gear over crit? Basically what is the best third bonus on gear after main stat bonus (STR DEX int) I was aware that DEX is first no matter what but I didn't know STR gave crit.


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Str doesn't help crit, only gives 10HP per point.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Befs]

Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!


Something seems wrong here...

[Arkh]

Alright it is very simple; I know DEX is obviously the most important stat (though exactly why and what it affects wouldn't be bad to throw in in an answer to my topic, or for the sake of the thread) but what about the other two?

STR changes health and... What else does it do for us? Damage but only half what DEX does?

INT gives more mana and regen I am assuming? If so how much and at what rate?

After we establish the basics here to these two stats, I am most curious what I should be focusing on; if I have two pieces of gear that are totally equal and the best I have but one favors INT the other STR which do I pick? I assume there is personal preference to this based on play style too so please elaborate as much as possible, within reason of helping the discussion and usefulness here.

Thanks in advance!


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

U mount dex to max because it's the main stat which impact damage, dps, dodge & crit...

So it mean all your items have to be dex first stat, all your skill point in dex.

After this you mount dex, str & intel in passive to max, you choose a good pet & you balance your second stats item (brutality for str or potency for intel).

U need around 1000-1200 mana for pvp, when u reach it, u put every other item 2nd stat in str...

If u follow my advices, you can reach 3000+ HP, 500+ damages & 600+ DPS with bow lvl 40 :

117344

[Arkh]

As a rogue:



HP
Crit
Dmg
B.Dmg
MP



1 DEX
3
.0025
.195
.005
---



1 INT
5
.0015
.257
---
10



1 STR
10
---
---
---
---




try to replace the 40 dex by 40 intel on a rogue & your damages/DPS fall... dex bring far more damages/DPS than intel on a rogue...

[UndeadJudge]

try to replace the 40 dex by 40 intel on a rogue & your damages/DPS fall... dex bring far more damages/DPS than intel on a rogue...

Bonus damage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Arkh]

Bonus damage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

0.195 damages & 0.005 bonus damages (0.195+0.005=0.2) for 1 dex &/or 0.257 damages for 1 intel is wrong...

dex bring far more damages & DPS than intel on a rogue.

If i replace 40 dex by 40 intel, i lose exactly 31.5 DPS & 25.5 damages so 1 dex bring 0,7875 DPS & 0.6375 damages more than 1 intel

[UndeadJudge]

0.195 damages & 0.005 bonus damages (0.195+0.005=0.2) for 1 dex &/or 0.257 damages for 1 intel is wrong...

dex bring far more damages & DPS than intel on a rogue.

If i replace 40 dex by 40 intel, i lose exactly 31.5 DPS & 25.5 damages so 1 dex bring 0,7875 DPS & 0.6375 damages more than 1 intel

The reason why your damage is being increased is because your bonus damage is increased. I'm pretty sure int gives more base damage, but DEX gives more bonus damage, which multiplies the amount you'll get.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Arkh]

The reason why your damage is being increased is because your bonus damage is increased. I'm pretty sure int gives more base damage, but DEX gives more bonus damage, which multiplies the amount you'll get.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

0.195*1.005=0.195975 it's still very inferior of the 0.257 indicated for 1 intel...

U can calculate indicated datas the way u want, it indicate intel more damages than dex & it's false.

Or show me the calculation : how 0.195 basic damage & 0.005 bonus damages bring superior damages than 0.257 basic damages...

[nevercan]

0.195 damages & 0.005 bonus damages (0.195+0.005=0.2) for 1 dex &/or 0.257 damages for 1 intel is wrong...

dex bring far more damages & DPS than intel on a rogue.

If i replace 40 dex by 40 intel, i lose exactly 31.5 DPS & 25.5 damages so 1 dex bring 0,7875 DPS & 0.6375 damages more than 1 intel


The reason why your damage is being increased is because your bonus damage is increased. I'm pretty sure int gives more base damage, but DEX gives more bonus damage, which multiplies the amount you'll get.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


0.195*1.005=0.195975 it's still very inferior of the 0.257 indicated for 1 intel...

U can calculate indicated datas the way u want, it indicate intel more damages than dex & it's false.

Or show me the calculation : how 0.195 basic damage & 0.005 bonus damages bring superior damages than 0.257 basic damages...
If you want to help speed start using more easier words n things if you want to understand this you need to be an professor

[Speetz13]

Whoa someone insulting my intelligence? Lol. I'm enjoying this as the more discussion we have the better; as someone who min/max's on any MMO I play, I hate how little raw numbers are provided by STS and always have. I wanna make sure every stat point is being used to it's full potential, it's a big part of the fun of these games for me.

I am still wondering how big of an influence INT plays in our damage, as it almost seems to have a diminishing returns type of effect; big bonuses at first, but as the INT score goes above 40 or 50 or so it gets to be way less. Only reason I thought this is because of a too a lvl below me with lower DEX but higher int that had a higher dps than myself and I know the daggers he was using couldn't have been higher than my own in raw damage. Obviously there are other legitimate reasons but it made me go "hmm..." :)

I am glad I sparked this much convo in the first place; as rogues most of use are damage junkies to begin with, so my now min/max our hearts out?


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Speetz13]

Ps: I forgot how to change my signature to have it make since... Again. I started playing PL back in 09. Obviously not AL.


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GinjaNinja]

Whoa someone insulting my intelligence? Lol. I'm enjoying this as the more discussion we have the better; as someone who min/max's on any MMO I play, I hate how little raw numbers are provided by STS and always have. I wanna make sure every stat point is being used to it's full potential, it's a big part of the fun of these games for me.

I am still wondering how big of an influence INT plays in our damage, as it almost seems to have a diminishing returns type of effect; big bonuses at first, but as the INT score goes above 40 or 50 or so it gets to be way less. Only reason I thought this is because of a too a lvl below me with lower DEX but higher int that had a higher dps than myself and I know the daggers he was using couldn't have been higher than my own in raw damage. Obviously there are other legitimate reasons but it made me go "hmm..." :)

I am glad I sparked this much convo in the first place; as rogues most of use are damage junkies to begin with, so my now min/max our hearts out?


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont think that the guy had higher dmg than you because of more stat points put into int. All dex. really does give you the most dmg possible. Maybe his daggers/other gear were gemmed in a way that increased his stats above yours, its hard to say.

[Speetz13]

Oh I doubt it too but it had to play a decent role in damage for it to be higher than mine with what I had on. I am losing the specifics but maybe it wasn't higher but vey close to the same I don't remember but my boiled down point was just that it made me wonder how much int did do for our damage.

My biggest issue now is that I can't solo anything in nordr at level 27. My dps is 422 I can't remember but DEX is close to 400 and it takes a lot of pots to get through map solo. There seems to be some design around there being a tank role in AL and most warriors don't realize this, which adds to my issue. Any advice there would be welcomed..

[Arkh]

I dont think that the guy had higher dmg than you because of more stat points put into int. All dex. really does give you the most dmg possible. Maybe his daggers/other gear were gemmed in a way that increased his stats above yours, its hard to say.

Ginjaninja is right. As i said i replaced 40 dex buy 40 intel with exactly same build & other stats to test. result : i lose 31.5 DPS & 25.5 damages.

[Madnex]

Well, as much as I'm enjoying the little show going on here, if anyone paid a little attention in game, you'd see that damage bonus is a %. You start off with 105%. Of course DEX is designed to give you more damage over INT through the damage calculation since that percentage stacks on and on - even more noticeable at endgame where it reaches 400%+.

[Arkh]

Well, as much as I'm enjoying the little show going on here, if anyone paid a little attention in game, you'd see that damage bonus is a %. You start off with 105%. Of course DEX is designed to give you more damage over INT through the damage calculation since that percentage stacks on and on - even more noticeable at endgame where it reaches 400%+.

That's why i said :


0.195*1.005=0.195975 it's still very inferior of the 0.257 indicated for 1 intel...

U can calculate indicated datas the way u want, it indicate intel more damages than dex & it's false.

Or show me the calculation : how 0.195 basic damage & 0.005 bonus damages bring superior damages than 0.257 basic damages...

[dex dmg]*[1+(dex bonus dmg)]>[int dmg]*[1+(int bonus dmg)]

so

[0.195]*[1+(0.005)]>[0.257]*[1+(0)]
=
0.195975>0.257 is FALSE

[UndeadJudge]

That's why i said :



[dex dmg]*[1+(dex bonus dmg)]>[int dmg]*[1+(int bonus dmg)]

so

[0.195]*[1+(0.005)]>[0.257]*[1+(0)]
=
0.195975>0.257 is FALSE

Reread his post lol..

Or go Respec to 1 int and 1 dex, no pet, see which is higher

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nevercan]

That's why i said :



[dex dmg]*[1+(dex bonus dmg)]>[int dmg]*[1+(int bonus dmg)]

so

[0.195]*[1+(0.005)]>[0.257]*[1+(0)]
=
0.195975>0.257 is FALSE
????????????????

[Arkh]

Reread his post lol..

Or go Respec to 1 int and 1 dex, no pet, see which is higher

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I replaced 40 dex by 40 intel. Intel is higher on mage. On rogue it's dex

[UndeadJudge]

I replaced 40 dex by 40 intel. Intel is higher on mage. On rogue it's dex

1, not 40... The % compounds on itself..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Speetz13]

Ok so we have figured out int for us is only for mana when we can kind a spare the int which only matters in PVP since we have unlimited pots seeing as their dirt cheap.

What about defense? I die stupid quick in Nodr without a group ern though I two hit almost every mob. Any advice stat wise there? Or even tactics? I can kite, sure, but there should be more possibilities than that eh?

[Arkh]

1, not 40... The % compounds on itself..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

to replace 1 or to replace 40 & divide by 40 is equal man. if 1 intel dmg is superior to 1 dex dmg+his bonus dmg, it's same for 40 intel & 40 dex... & the result is this :



If i replace 40 dex by 40 intel, i lose exactly 31.5 DPS & 25.5 damages so 1 dex bring 0,7875 DPS & 0.6375 damages more than 1 intel

Intel bring few more DPS & damages than str. That's why for rogue a potency item is more expensive than his brutality version... But dex bring FAR more DPS & dmg than intel or str... Saying intel bring more damages than dex on a rogue is stupid. Every Rogue up dex to max to maximize DPS & damage...

[Arkh]

????????????????

about the guy who said 1 intel bring 0.257 dmg & dex 0.195 dmg & 0.005 bonus dmg

if dex dmg is 0.195, real dex bonus dmg is superior of (0.257/0.195)-1=0.3179

not 0.005.

or if the bonus is 0.005, dex basic dmg is superior of (0.257/(1+0.005))= 0.255

not 0.195.

In every case, dex dmg+bonus dmg bring superior result than intel.

[UndeadJudge]

Ok so we have figured out int for us is only for mana when we can kind a spare the int which only matters in PVP since we have unlimited pots seeing as their dirt cheap.

What about defense? I die stupid quick in Nodr without a group ern though I two hit almost every mob. Any advice stat wise there? Or even tactics? I can kite, sure, but there should be more possibilities than that eh?

Sorry bout the clutter on your thread man. Anyway, you can try to get gear with a good amount of armor and/or str or just play with a warrior. They can hold aggro on mobs so you will hardly take any damage. Kiting I find isn't very efficient in AL, aside from on mobs, just because of the way the game is designed. Somehow, melee mobs are able to hit me even when I'm far from them..




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Madnex]

What you're trying to hard to prove is already mentioned in the first page; someone asked if a full INT build would have more damage than a full DEX and I responded explaining that's not the case. The exact figures were found quite some while ago too by fluff (might go over them again, later). Point being, arguing over those digits serves no purpose as the conclusion has already been drawn and announced.

INT does give damage and crit, just not as much as DEX.

[Arkh]

What you're trying to hard to prove is already mentioned in the first page; someone asked if a full INT build would have more damage than a full DEX and I responded explaining that's not the case. The exact figures were found quite some while ago too by fluff (might go over them again, later). Point being, arguing over those digits serves no purpose as the conclusion has already been drawn and announced.

INT does give damage and crit, just not as much as DEX.

so it's not 0.257 for int & 0.195 + 0.005 bonus for dex

That's my point.

[Madnex]

so it's not 0.257 for int & 0.195 + 0.005 bonus for dex

That's my point.
You're only looking at one part of the damage equation, the length and complexity of which you do not even fully grasp either. You didn't even bother to eliminate the bonus damage% stack-ability factor, stubbornly making the comparison at L41 where the bonus dmg is reaching ~400%. So the precise statistical figures may very well be correct.

You have no point, just stuck up on elementary math that disproves the simplistic and isolated part of the aforementioned equation that you attempted to tackle. If that's the length of your constructive feedback, you could spare us your meaningless contribution next time as it is only confusing the new players who click on this topic to be informed of the basics, not to calculate decimals they have no real use for, anyway.

[nevercan]

You're only looking at one part of the damage equation, the length and complexity of which you do not even fully grasp either. You didn't even bother to eliminate the bonus damage% stack-ability factor, stubbornly making the comparison at L41 where the bonus dmg is reaching ~400%. So the precise statistical figures may very well be correct.

You have no point, just stuck up on elementary math that disproves the simplistic and isolated part of the aforementioned equation that you attempted to tackle. If that's the length of your constructive feedback, you could spare us your meaningless contribution next time as it is only confusing the new players who click on this topic to be informed of the basics, not to calculate decimals they have no real use for, anyway.
Not only for new players i dont understand anything of what you guys are talking about with your +×÷%-

[Speetz13]

Ok so here is what it comes down to for me. One simple question that kind of sums up the entire thing;

Should I buff my passive skill for damage (1% per skill point) or for INT (+5 INT per skill point) first to maximize damage at the lowest level possible, active skills considered (5 active skills at +5/4 before maximizing passive skills)

In most games with anything close to a similar number structure active skills will take first priority until close to maxed out before passive skills take over, given you aren't totally derp about your class. Thanks, hopefully one final time, and hopefully I won't have to buy a respec at lvl30...!...!!....!!!

:P

[Madnex]

Generally avoid damage, armor and speed passives because if you're using a pet with damage buff (which you should be), the game only counts the highest buff (so if you were using Grimm, damage and speed passives would be wasted skill points). If you're only looking to PvE, start with passives after L20. Below is the priority tree for the optimal PvE build up to L20:

5/5 Aimed Shot,
5/5 Noxious Bolt,
1/5 Shadow Piercer (just unlock it),
5/5 STR,
4/5 INT

Then later on:
(max out INT),
5/5 DEX,
5/5 crit,
Shadow Veil or Razor Shield or Entangling Traps or a combination of two, at L40.

STR first to avoid deaths and make your HP potions more effective (since they always heal a set %, the more HP you have, the more health you get from each). If you're looking to level up fast, I'd suggest Kraag Tombs IV. Charging up your nox and spamming normal attack will save you a lot of mana potions and only slightly slow down the run. You may want to try out daggers for leveling up since Tombs is one of the few places where they're more efficient that bows.

If you're looking to PvP, you'll need a different build of course.

[Jamal_idris2]

For passive skill...
Which one would u prefer Dex,int,Str or dex,int, crit
It for pvp tho lvl 27

[Viobs]

Ummm..
What he said :eagerness: