Retiring from PvP today

[raw]

Hi Arcane Legends players,

The reason I'm posting this is not merely because I am quitting PvP, but because I want to express why I am doing so.

Just some background...

I'm a S1 player (shout out Rage of Mages!) and started pvp on my twink Merrrrrrrked (now known as raw) during S2, and haven't stopped since. But what I've seen as a really fun way to pass the time, has turned into something completely different. The lack of regulation in pvp (trash talking with no consequence) and lack of attention from STG (same CTF map for two years, breeze not being fixed for weeks, etc.) has allowed pvp to go from being that place people can go for fun, to a place where only the best geared players stand a chance, Ultimately those who aren't in a strong guild are inevitably going to get ganged/spawned/trashed/booted from rooms.

I love PvPing for the strategy, the teamwork, the kills, but what I hate is the trashing/unfair fights. PvP has a way of changing people, including myself, and making us say things that we would never say face to face. I'm at the point now where me going into a PvP match isn't for fun, it's just because other players call me, challenge me, or I need to get kills for the LB. Usually, I end up either getting annoyed at all the things people are saying towards me, or I end up saying things back to them that I shouldn't.

I hope one day that PvP is restored to its glory days where skill > gear.
I also hope that STG pays an ounce of attention to kill farmers that run rampant across the leaderboard (they deleted the kill farming sticky thread)
I also really hope that players realize that this is a GAME, not World War 2.

I apologize to anyone that I've negatively impacted, and wish you all the best of luck in your PvP endeavors!
If you want me come find me in PvE! :biggrin:

Now my questions to anyone reading are...

- Do you PvP, and if so have you experienced what I am talking about and how has that impacted your Arcane Legends experience?
- How can we as a community fix the negativity (trashing, unfair fighting, guild drama, etc) that exists in PvP, while still keeping it competitive and fun for as many players as possible?
- What would you like see from STG do to fix PvP? (keeping in mind that unless it makes money they will probably not do it- ie. not be building a new map, or inventing a new pvp system)

[Ice]

Best wishes Buddy!

[Zeus]

1. Yes, I PvP. It doesn't bother me. If things get out of hand, that's what the ignore button exists for. Developers have given us wonderful tools to deal with players we dislike. I would rather they not waste man hours on cleaning up PvP when as players we have the option to do this ourselves.

2. Ignore listing anyone you may find problematic upon entering a PvP room and then removing them after the PvP session is done.

3. I'd prefer them to fix the many broken mechanics of PvP first such as breeze, razor shield, nox, sorcerers, etc. The trivial matters can be put on the side burner.

[H£ll]

Quitting something you like for such reasons don't make sense to me. At some point we all got ganged, spawned even trash talked to but we literally get over it and move forward. Chill, relax and take it easy.

Remember Only 5 players in each team can enter the PVP room regardless which guild is stronger. So if you love what you do as claimed, you can still figure out the right skills and strategy to pull off a win. I believe you have allot of pro players on your side that actually have great skills.

Anyways best of luck to whatever you decide

[Litheus]

best of luck
yes i have experienced the things u listed above. when i first entered pvp i used to gang. now i dont coz it makes me feel bad. sometimes i lose control n i gang but then i again let them kill me the times i ganged.

pve for planar tomb/event pt me ign-Litheus
help will be said thanks coz i have only 7 planar fragments till n no one runs with me

[Ovtlaw]

Quitting something you like for such reasons don't make sense to me. At some point we all got ganged, spawned even trash talked to but we literally get over it and move forward. Chill, relax and take it easy.

Remember Only 5 players in each team can enter the PVP room regardless which guild is stronger. So if you love what you do as claimed, you can still figure out the right skills and strategy to pull off a win. I believe you have allot of pro players on your side that actually have great skills.

Anyways best of luck to whatever you decide

Yeah... Just like Hell with 300m set n pet want to vs my tank ( 18m ) set n pet...
Hell said stop running n fight. I replied... I will stop when I have ur set n sns... New map. Lol

[Ovtlaw]

Hi Arcane Legends players,

The reason I'm posting this is not merely because I am quitting PvP, but because I want to express why I am doing so.

Just some background...

I'm a S1 player (shout out Rage of Mages!) and started pvp on my twink Merrrrrrrked (now known as raw) during S2, and haven't stopped since. But what I've seen as a really fun way to pass the time, has turned into something completely different. The lack of regulation in pvp (trash talking with no consequence) and lack of attention from STG (same CTF map for two years, breeze not being fixed for weeks, etc.) has allowed pvp to go from being that place people can go for fun, to a place where only the best geared players stand a chance, Ultimately those who aren't in a strong guild are inevitably going to get ganged/spawned/trashed/booted from rooms.

I love PvPing for the strategy, the teamwork, the kills, but what I hate is the trashing/unfair fights. PvP has a way of changing people, including myself, and making us say things that we would never say face to face. I'm at the point now where me going into a PvP match isn't for fun, it's just because other players call me, challenge me, or I need to get kills for the LB. Usually, I end up either getting annoyed at all the things people are saying towards me, or I end up saying things back to them that I shouldn't.

I hope one day that PvP is restored to its glory days where skill > gear.
I also hope that STG pays an ounce of attention to kill farmers that run rampant across the leaderboard (they deleted the kill farming sticky thread)
I also really hope that players realize that this is a GAME, not World War 2.

I apologize to anyone that I've negatively impacted, and wish you all the best of luck in your PvP endeavors!
If you want me come find me in PvE! :biggrin:

Now my questions to anyone reading are...

- Do you PvP, and if so have you experienced what I am talking about and how has that impacted your Arcane Legends experience?
- How can we as a community fix the negativity (trashing, unfair fighting, guild drama, etc) that exists in PvP, while still keeping it competitive and fun for as many players as possible?
- What would you like see from STG do to fix PvP? (keeping in mind that unless it makes money they will probably not do it- ie. not be building a new map, or inventing a new pvp system)

Raw. Play 23 with me... Alway fair fight gw... Also skills > gears
End game is for rich noob lol... When they tried here. They are food...

[raw]

Quitting something you like for such reasons don't make sense to me. At some point we all got ganged, spawned even trash talked to but we literally get over it and move forward. Chill, relax and take it easy.

Remember Only 5 players in each team can enter the PVP room regardless which guild is stronger. So if you love what you do as claimed, you can still figure out the right skills and strategy to pull off a win. I believe you have allot of pro players on your side that actually have great skills.

Anyways best of luck to whatever you decide

I agree that this may seem irrational but it's my choice. As you can see throughout this thread, that players are already trashing this, which just exemplifies the behavior that is rampant throughout PvP in end game players.

Also just to be clear I'm not quitting because of losing PvP matches. We win some and we lose some. I quit because the lack of respect players have towards eachother, and the lack of attention from STG.

Find me in PvE.

[Zeus]

I agree that this may seem irrational but it's my choice. As you can see throughout this thread, that players are already trashing this, which just exemplifies the behavior that is rampant throughout PvP in end game players.

Also just to be clear I'm not quitting because of losing PvP matches. We win some and we lose some. I quit because the lack of respect players have towards eachother, and the lack of attention from STG.

Find me in PvE.

Raw,

If you want things to change, you yourself have to change as well. I've seen many situations where you are the FIRST to trash talk in a room without anyone saying anything prior in that instance.

I do not mean to instigate you but all I am saying is if you want to change PvP, you have to be the leading initiative. Otherwise, try the suggestions I've made. If I do them prior to starting a PvP match, they work very very well. If I do not, I can often be the first to trash talk. So, these suggestions are from experience. Try them out!

[Litheus]

Raw,

If you want things to change, you yourself have to change as well. I've seen many situations where you are the FIRST to trash talk in a room without anyone saying anything prior in that instance.

I do not mean to instigate you but all I am saying is if you want to change PvP, you have to be the leading initiative. Otherwise, try the suggestions I've made. If I do them prior to starting a PvP match, they work very very well.

Gandhi - "Be the change you want to see"

[raw]

Raw,

If you want things to change, you yourself have to change as well. I've seen many situations where you are the FIRST to trash talk in a room without anyone saying anything prior in that instance.

I do not mean to instigate you but all I am saying is if you want to change PvP, you have to be the leading initiative. Otherwise, try the suggestions I've made. If I do them prior to starting a PvP match, they work very very well. If I do not, I can often be the first to trash talk. So, these suggestions are from experience. Try them out!

I'll admit that I've done my fair share of trash talking, and I acknowledged that in my initial post. Being the change that you want to see does not work when you're solo in end game. Guilds dominate PvP, and people simply don't care for anyone willing to make a stand for what they believe is right. I did try this when I left Resilience months ago and went solo. And to be fair lets not exclude you, Zeus, from trashing. We've all done it.

Being solo helped me see the true colors of large guilds and the detrimental impact they've had on PvP in terms of the average player's experience, which frankly is more important because those are the players who will be the future of AL. The point being, as my post states "The reason I'm posting this is not merely because I am quitting PvP, but because I want to express why I am doing so." there is a much bigger issue than me or you. There is a problem that has been spiraling out of control, and it's only going to get worse unless something is done by Guild Officers, influential players, mods to curb this and restore PvP back to a fun place for all.

Again, please keep this thread constructive, and don't trash talk here. You're just making yourselves look foolish.

[Zeus]

I'll admit that I've done my fair share of trash talking, and I acknowledged that in my initial post. Being the change that you want to see does not work when you're solo in end game. Guilds dominate PvP, and people simply don't care for anyone willing to make a stand for what they believe is right. And to be fair lets not exclude you, Zeus, from trashing. We've all done it.

Being solo helped me see the true colors of large guilds and the detrimental impact they've had on PvP in terms of the average player's experience, which frankly is more important because those are the players who will be the future of AL. The point being, as my post states "The reason I'm posting this is not merely because I am quitting PvP, but because I want to express why I am doing so." there is a much bigger issue than me or you. There is a problem that has been spiraling out of control, and it's only going to get worse unless something is done by Guild Officers, influential players, mods to curb this and restore PvP back to a fun place for all.

Again, please keep this thread constructive, and don't
trash talk here. You're just making yourselves look foolish.

This thread is constructive and I have no intentions to derail it from that. Sure, I've trash talked before too. I'll be the first to admit it. PvP gets to everyone and we all get frustrated at times.

The only way to fix it is by being the change. Join a major guild, PvP with them and change how they work. I've tried forums method too and really, it just does not work.

[Spell]

I cant deal with all the lose of friends anymore.....Im probably quitting soon (entire game)
Pvp is stupid due to 5v5 breeze .
Market is completely ruined.
Meh time to sell everything and just go be an OP twink with 2 para gems and 8 eyes rofl....

[raw]

This thread is constructive and I have no intentions to derail it from that. Sure, I've trash talked before too. I'll be the first to admit it. PvP gets to everyone and we all get frustrated at times.

The only way to fix it is by being the change. Join a major guild, PvP with them and change how they work. I've tried forums method too and really, it just does not work.

I wasn't directing the trashing in this thread towards you, but rather the numerous posts before you. Anyway I tried this during my 3 months as GM of Decimation (level 26 300+ person pvp guild) and frankly it worked pretty well. We had a guild where all the officers were on the same page, we trained our guild to avoid drama, spot blocking (unless blocked first), and trash talking. We had a great guild going, and the 26 circuit was revamped for a few months in early 2014.

Anyway, officers are the people that represent and set the example for the rest of the guild, and unfortunately some of the major guilds in AL don't have this. Not to say that all officers are bad, because I'm sure if you're an officer in any guild you're worked your way up the ranks and have proven yourself. What I am implying is that within at least the top pvp guilds there are officers who don't follow their guild's ideals, and set poor examples for the rest of their guild which leads guild members misinterpreting this as okay behavior, which eventually snowballs into a more widespread problem.

Anyway, you're right that being the change that you want to see works IF you are in a position of influence (usually high up in a guild), however it's just not a direction that people seem to moving towards.

[Kakashis]

I'm a leader of change in 32/33 bracket :)

[Zeus]

I wasn't directing the trashing in this thread towards you, but rather the numerous posts before you. Anyway I tried this during my 3 months as GM of Decimation (level 26 300+ person pvp guild) and frankly it worked pretty well. We had a guild where all the officers were on the same page, we trained our guild to avoid drama, spot blocking (unless blocked first), and trash talking. Officers are the people that represent and set the example for the rest of the guild, and unfortunately some of the major guilds in AL don't have this. Not to say that all officers are bad, because I'm sure if you're an officer in any guild you're worked your way up the ranks and have proven yourself. What I am implying is that within at least the top two pvp guilds there are officers who don't follow their guilds ideals, and set poor examples for the rest of their guilds which leads the misinterpretation for guild members that this behavior is okay which eventually snowballs into a more widespread problem.

Anyway, you're right that being the change that you want to see works IF you are in a position of influence, however it's just not a direction that people seem to moving towards.

Yes, I remember when Decimation was around. A lot of good things were said about that guild and I commend you for it. You were a great GM back then! However, I do not think we can change two PvP guilds morals by relying on their officer. You or someone else who's dedicated to minimizing PvP foul play has to obtain position of influence and then become the change.

Personally, I tried back in the Pride days but now guilds are simply way too large to be worth the effort required.


Lastly, I truly didn't want to come off as I am innocent of such acts because I am not. I really do not think anyone is for that matter which is why I was open to admit in post #17.

[GoodSyntax]

I stopped PvP many seasons ago (back when Nordr first came out).

To be honest, I found that there were several types of PvPers:

Friendly Pro's
This group not only enjoyed PvP, but wanted to build friendships, wanted to improve their skills, was willing to fight or team with anybody, was willing to teach and rarely, if ever, talked trash. At the time, this was a large group, and they were loosely connected in that they respected each other and often balanced out teams simply to enjoy a good fight. This was the group that generally kept PvP matches fun and exciting.

KDR Obsessed
This group only cared about their KDR. This was the group that usually joined with a pack of Warriors, or always joined the team with more players. You could find this type of player spawn farming, hunting exclusively in packs, killing the winner of 1v1 fights, etc., These players were quick to talk trash when they were winning and were equally quick to call in guildmates/friends to stack the deck if they got killed (didn't matter if they lost in a 1v1 or a clash) or thought they could have lost in a battle. Many of these players turned to kill farming to pad their stats out even more, which ultimately made the PvP leaderboards a joke.

PvP Noobs
This group usually came in undergeared, didn't understand how to fight a clash, often ran off on their own (hence were easy pickings), had starter or low end pets, and generally hurt their team instead of helping. Because of their freshness in PvP, these players clearly didn't understand how to fight in a group and generally led to team wipes in clashes. Some of these players kept at it without ever improving, many quit PvP altogether, and a handful joined up with high-powered PvP guilds for protection and typically turned into one of the KDR Obsessed players.

Casual PvPers
This group was usually not the most skilled, but enjoyed joining PvP matches for the camaraderie, were usually pleasant, friendly players, and half the time wound up staying in PvP rooms to chat (weird, I know). You would know what you were joining the moment you entered the room and got a bunch of friend requests, private messages and a fully spammed out chat. Matches with this group usually devolved into a 1v1 room and someone free-flagging with the rest standing around and talking about various topics, usually nothing relevant to the game. A pleasant group, but generally not what you wanted in a PvP match.

Flaggers
This type of player went for the flags immediately. Rarely spoke, didn't kill anything and was only there for flags. This is the type that would end 1v1 matches prematurely, even though everyone in the room would say wait! While there was nothing inherently wrong with this player, it usually meant that you were clashing 4v5, and that your time in the room was going to be limited by however long it took to deliver all flags. I suspect that this group is what caused the free-flagging phenomenon, since it became apparent that to get onto the leaderboard, you needed to get 10k flags, and since everyone else was doing it, many rooms just turned into free flag rooms.

Guild Groupies
This is the group that typically responded to the KDR Obsessed calls for support. This is the player that would join your team and not participate in clashes because they wouldn't kill guildies. Worse, these are also the players that joined, died, and never respawned or respawned and never left the room. Ultimately, these turned into the spot blockers that we all loathe these days.


Unfortunately, the Friendly Pro's have become a very small population in the game, and with their decline, PvP in this game has devolved into gank rooms. There are still a bunch of very respectable players that PvP, but they are the clear minority and the majority that are left over from the early days seem to have a win at all costs mentality. This behavior is the source of all the "PvP Drama".

To be honest, I don't think that there is anything that can be done to improve the situation. As long as people are obsessed with kills, KDR, flag count, guild wars, etc., this can never change without fundamental changes to how PvP is structured. Until STS makes a change to the basic mechanics of PvP, and introduces two different rooms, one where players and teams are completely anonymous (ie., no names, you can't choose your team, auto-rebalancing, etc.) and another room where it is invite-only, our current brand of PvP will remain.

[nevercan]

I stopped PvP many seasons ago (back when Nordr first came out).

To be honest, I found that there were several types of PvPers:

Friendly Pro's
This group not only enjoyed PvP, but wanted to build friendships, wanted to improve their skills, was willing to fight or team with anybody, was willing to teach and rarely, if ever, talked trash. At the time, this was a large group, and they were loosely connected in that they respected each other and often balanced out teams simply to enjoy a good fight. This was the group that generally kept PvP matches fun and exciting.

KDR Obsessed
This group only cared about their KDR. This was the group that usually joined with a pack of Warriors, or always joined the team with more players. You could find this type of player spawn farming, hunting exclusively in packs, killing the winner of 1v1 fights, etc., These players were quick to talk trash when they were winning and were equally quick to call in guildmates/friends to stack the deck if they got killed (didn't matter if they lost in a 1v1 or a clash) or thought they could have lost in a battle. Many of these players turned to kill farming to pad their stats out even more, which ultimately made the PvP leaderboards a joke.

PvP Noobs
This group usually came in undergeared, didn't understand how to fight a clash, often ran off on their own (hence were easy pickings), had starter or low end pets, and generally hurt their team instead of helping. Because of their freshness in PvP, these players clearly didn't understand how to fight in a group and generally led to team wipes in clashes. Some of these players kept at it without ever improving, many quit PvP altogether, and a handful joined up with high-powered PvP guilds for protection and typically turned into one of the KDR Obsessed players.

Casual PvPers
This group was usually not the most skilled, but enjoyed joining PvP matches for the camaraderie, were usually pleasant, friendly players, and half the time wound up staying in PvP rooms to chat (weird, I know). You would know what you were joining the moment you entered the room and got a bunch of friend requests, private messages and a fully spammed out chat. Matches with this group usually devolved into a 1v1 room and someone free-flagging with the rest standing around and talking about various topics, usually nothing relevant to the game. A pleasant group, but generally not what you wanted in a PvP match.

Flaggers
This type of player went for the flags immediately. Rarely spoke, didn't kill anything and was only there for flags. This is the type that would end 1v1 matches prematurely, even though everyone in the room would say wait! While there was nothing inherently wrong with this player, it usually meant that you were clashing 4v5, and that your time in the room was going to be limited by however long it took to deliver all flags. I suspect that this group is what caused the free-flagging phenomenon, since it became apparent that to get onto the leaderboard, you needed to get 10k flags, and since everyone else was doing it, many rooms just turned into free flag rooms.

Guild Groupies
This is the group that typically responded to the KDR Obsessed calls for support. This is the player that would join your team and not participate in clashes because they wouldn't kill guildies. Worse, these are also the players that joined, died, and never respawned or respawned and never left the room. Ultimately, these turned into the spot blockers that we all loathe these days.


Unfortunately, the Friendly Pro's have become a very small population in the game, and with their decline, PvP in this game has devolved into gank rooms. There are still a bunch of very respectable players that PvP, but they are the clear minority and the majority that are left over from the early days seem to have a win at all costs mentality. This behavior is the source of all the "PvP Drama".

To be honest, I don't think that there is anything that can be done to improve the situation. As long as people are obsessed with kills, KDR, flag count, guild wars, etc., this can never change without fundamental changes to how PvP is structured. Until STS makes a change to the basic mechanics of PvP, and introduces two different rooms, one where players and teams are completely anonymous (ie., no names, you can't choose your team, auto-rebalancing, etc.) and another room where it is invite-only, our current brand of PvP will remain.

Nothing more then the treuth :)

[Raselph]

I stopped PvP many seasons ago (back when Nordr first came out).

To be honest, I found that there were several types of PvPers:

Friendly Pro's
This group not only enjoyed PvP, but wanted to build friendships, wanted to improve their skills, was willing to fight or team with anybody, was willing to teach and rarely, if ever, talked trash. At the time, this was a large group, and they were loosely connected in that they respected each other and often balanced out teams simply to enjoy a good fight. This was the group that generally kept PvP matches fun and exciting.

KDR Obsessed
This group only cared about their KDR. This was the group that usually joined with a pack of Warriors, or always joined the team with more players. You could find this type of player spawn farming, hunting exclusively in packs, killing the winner of 1v1 fights, etc., These players were quick to talk trash when they were winning and were equally quick to call in guildmates/friends to stack the deck if they got killed (didn't matter if they lost in a 1v1 or a clash) or thought they could have lost in a battle. Many of these players turned to kill farming to pad their stats out even more, which ultimately made the PvP leaderboards a joke.

PvP Noobs
This group usually came in undergeared, didn't understand how to fight a clash, often ran off on their own (hence were easy pickings), had starter or low end pets, and generally hurt their team instead of helping. Because of their freshness in PvP, these players clearly didn't understand how to fight in a group and generally led to team wipes in clashes. Some of these players kept at it without ever improving, many quit PvP altogether, and a handful joined up with high-powered PvP guilds for protection and typically turned into one of the KDR Obsessed players.

Casual PvPers
This group was usually not the most skilled, but enjoyed joining PvP matches for the camaraderie, were usually pleasant, friendly players, and half the time wound up staying in PvP rooms to chat (weird, I know). You would know what you were joining the moment you entered the room and got a bunch of friend requests, private messages and a fully spammed out chat. Matches with this group usually devolved into a 1v1 room and someone free-flagging with the rest standing around and talking about various topics, usually nothing relevant to the game. A pleasant group, but generally not what you wanted in a PvP match.

Flaggers
This type of player went for the flags immediately. Rarely spoke, didn't kill anything and was only there for flags. This is the type that would end 1v1 matches prematurely, even though everyone in the room would say wait! While there was nothing inherently wrong with this player, it usually meant that you were clashing 4v5, and that your time in the room was going to be limited by however long it took to deliver all flags. I suspect that this group is what caused the free-flagging phenomenon, since it became apparent that to get onto the leaderboard, you needed to get 10k flags, and since everyone else was doing it, many rooms just turned into free flag rooms.

Guild Groupies
This is the group that typically responded to the KDR Obsessed calls for support. This is the player that would join your team and not participate in clashes because they wouldn't kill guildies. Worse, these are also the players that joined, died, and never respawned or respawned and never left the room. Ultimately, these turned into the spot blockers that we all loathe these days.


Unfortunately, the Friendly Pro's have become a very small population in the game, and with their decline, PvP in this game has devolved into gank rooms. There are still a bunch of very respectable players that PvP, but they are the clear minority and the majority that are left over from the early days seem to have a win at all costs mentality. This behavior is the source of all the "PvP Drama".

To be honest, I don't think that there is anything that can be done to improve the situation. As long as people are obsessed with kills, KDR, flag count, guild wars, etc., this can never change without fundamental changes to how PvP is structured. Until STS makes a change to the basic mechanics of PvP, and introduces two different rooms, one where players and teams are completely anonymous (ie., no names, you can't choose your team, auto-rebalancing, etc.) and another room where it is invite-only, our current brand of PvP will remain.

Yeah, and the best part pvp was fairer than what it is atm at end gaming. Miss those fair days but now the challenge...wow, lol.

[Woundedwarrior]

I never have tried end game PvP becuase I have never been able to fund a top geared player.
Back when the Nordr expansion came out, I made a top geared rogue twink. Back then, there were far viewer twinks and many of them were undergeared/ had little experience. I really enjoyed it and never turned down an opportunity to 1v1 anyone. I was so succesful that i managed to get a 756/8 KDR. Never once did I gang or ever got ganged. I eventually got bored with PvP and focused more on end game Pve. About a year later, I decided to try PvP again for fun and made a same lvl as earlier top geared rogue (didn't use an arcane pet). Anyway, I was shocked at how much things had changed. I was constantly getting ganged and there was trash talk every where I went. I was barely able to maintain a 2:1 KDR even though I had the best gear for my lvl. Eventually I got so frustrated I quit PvP for good and now only play for events/ Pve. Pvp is no longer fun at twink lvls, and I'm guessing end game because it's gang or be ganged. It blows my mind how friendly and fun PvP used to be and now is so hostile it shocks me that there are actual people behind those toons. Anyway, I completly agree with your frustrations with PvP Raw, but I think it may be too late to change as there are just too many players that abuse the system.

[Primeblades]

Raw. Play 23 with me... Alway fair fight gw... Also skills > gears
End game is for rich noob lol... When they tried here. They are food...

Level 23 is awesome, just sell everything then buy awesome twink gear. It is fun

[EQT]

I hope they create a system similar map system to that in pocket legends.

[Fauksuras]

PVP went to hell when the big Guild mergers started. There was always EOS and DM but they played mostly fair. When stuff like Purple Thunder arrived, Deathwish (which in turned transformed into something else) and the big mergers that followed to battle them it all became too much for many.

Nobody likes to play on uneven fields and on top of already uneven fights due to gear difference you had people doing things like 4 warrior teams vs a mage and such.

PVP can be fixed, but it requires an effort from both developers and players that none will make.

[Seoratrek]

Hi everyone. I've removed a few posts here and would like to remind you all to keep the discussion friendly. I'm going to leave this open but please be respectful to each other. Thanks! :)

[Arachnophobik]

1. Yes I pvp
2. I for one stay silent no matter what they say, telling myself that i know better and i dont need to argue with kids.
3. Id like to see balance. Theres just too much one hits these days. People with new amu+imbued sets are nearly impossible for average players to defeat, specially rogues.

[Froxanthar]

1. Yes. I do some PvP too.
2. As usual, I would stay quiet when dealing with sore loser & never humiliated those who I manage to defeat.
3. Damage > Armor ratio is broken. Too many 1 hit kill these days. The Imbued set is only for riches people. Poor player like me can never afford bunch of Ankh kits & Planar chest in the auction.

[GoodSyntax]

3. Damage > Armor ratio is broken. Too many 1 hit kill these days. The Imbued set is only for riches people. Poor player like me can never afford bunch of Ankh kits & Planar chest in the auction.

The problem is that recipes, chests and helms/armors simply aren't dropping at a reasonable rate.

I have completed literally hundreds of arena runs since the drop rate "buff" and haven't even seen a recipe drop.

I have also completed hundreds of tomb runs, and looted exactly zero rods or knives, and only two or three chests.

With the drop rate of helms/armors out of chests being so absurdly low, on top of a very low drop rate of the chests themselves, it is no wonder why these imbued items (even the less desirable models) are going for tens of millions per set.

And, a recipe from arena being valued at 17-20m should be all the sign anyone needs to see to realize the drop rate is too low. I'm not sure why the recipe drop rate is so low, since the crafted amulet is bound to the toon, but if after hundreds of runs (well over 500 since the new arena dropped) where I still haven't seen a recipe, or a fossil.....well, I just think this is abusive.

I like high valued items, and I like having to earn it, but at some point, there has to be better incentive to run. I liquidated hundreds of architect, noble and shade pinks, opened hundreds upon hundreds of arena chests and received a handful of planar items, worth in total, perhaps 300k. That doesn't even cover the pots wasted there, let alone the ankhs and elixirs.

Think of it this way, if you have a 1% chance to loot a planar chest, and inside the chest is a (and let's be generous here) 1% chance to get a craftable helm/armor, you are looking at a 0.01% chance per tomb run of getting something worthwhile. To make matters worse, you have luck elixirs/lep amulets rerolling you out of planar chests and into locked crates -.-

Yeah.....

[Ovtlaw]

Level 23 is awesome, just sell everything then buy awesome twink gear. It is fun

Oh yes, but u need arcane pet n 1+ para to have fun in pvp 22-24

[Pirate Captain]

Peace merked, honestly though l13 has a bunch of really friendly players if you're willing to try it before you quit.
-redironman now xgolemx

[Soundlesskill]

- Do you PvP, and if so have you experienced what I am talking about and how has that impacted your Arcane Legends experience?
- How can we as a community fix the negativity (trashing, unfair fighting, guild drama, etc) that exists in PvP, while still keeping it competitive and fun for as many players as possible?
- What would you like see from STG do to fix PvP? (keeping in mind that unless it makes money they will probably not do it- ie. not be building a new map, or inventing a new pvp system)

1. Not anymore. Yes, I've experienced it and STS needs to fix the dumb imbalance before all the veterans quit. I quit the game, that's how it has impacted me :).

2. That's very tricky, because the guild drama originated from the rule "Don't kill your guildies". No one wants to get on their friends' bad side. Remove the chatbox, or make it so we can only see what your own team is saying. Remove titles in PvP and also a collective (tsk, as if it's possible) agreement to be nice.

3. Add more armor and health to the released helm and armors, that way it can catch up to the damage output. The armor could still be lootable in crates (Tho it would decrease the game experience, since no one wants a P2W game.)

[Soundlesskill]

I liquidated hundreds of architect, noble and shade pinks.

I wonder they're even on the lootable. They're completely outdated.

[nevercan]

I wonder they're even on the lootable. They're completely outdated.
He/she ment befor they where outdated if im right

[GoodSyntax]

I wonder they're even on the lootable. They're completely outdated.
They're completely useless junk. At one point, I listed them on auction for 299, but only a couple sold and I didn't even cover the listing fees, so I just liquidate now.

[Songoku]

Welcome to the party. I dont know what class u r but mages have it the worst you will always get called "noob" and stuff and its even more p*ss taking when a decent warrior calls me that, i feel like f***ing them up so bad for trash talking but cant coz mages dont stand a chance with a warrior.

Im a good pvp mage i have no para gem items but i can take on rouges with para gem sometimes so if a rouge calls me noob i will always get them back but warriors r the only ones i cant take down and its always the warriors starting the trash talk coz they know they OP. But if the buff for mages come then oooooooooooo. Asses will b wooped.

Ramdom: if u wanna p*ss off these trash talkers just join their team and steal their kills, trust me it drives them crazy i stole like 7 kills in a row from this warrior he got so mad and left the room to come at me, but little did he know. ( i left too)

[UndeadJudge]

Well, here's my experience.

I used to play PvP starting in s4, which I can easily say we're some of the best times of AL PvP. Of course there was a bit of trash talk and stuff, but it was competitive and fun. It wasn't really that guild oriented in that you could play solo without fear of teammates not helping, spawning, etc. Sure there was some hate to certain guilds, but it wasn't all that bad.

Honestly, I can't even think of a certain point in time where all the hate started. Friendly rivalries turned into feuds, and all respect for opponents was lost. I mean, ask yourself - does anyone say something like "Nice play, dude!" after dying to an "enemy" guild? Short answer will likely be no. We all do it; it's just the attitude of the game. Expressing positive attitude towards other players is a good way to help, but we're human. At a certain point, we all get mad after someone on the other team throws a slew of insults at us. And it just becomes a never-ending cycle of hate.

IMO, that's the main reason why PvP is just not enjoyable like it was in the past. However, that's not to say that there's a lot more to be done to liven up the rooms.

First off, it's simply impossible for any player that doesn't spend money to be able to get the best of the best. Generally, this goes for a lot of games, but the gap between an expedition bow and a mythic bow is like jumping across the Grand Canyon. Not only that, but even if you spend money on the game, you won't be guaranteed to acquire the best gear. This discourages a lot of people from PvP (most notably endgame).

Then there's some broken mechanics that need to be fixed. STS is already aware that Razor is glitched, as well as nox, and a couple of other bugs. Of course, I think I have to mention Breeze in here. To describe its stun duration in one word, it's simply retarded. There's really no way else to describe something so incredibly broken. Seeing how long it took them to type in one or two lines of code into Singe's programming, my hopes aren't very high for Breeze. It will likely be use it or lose it for the next few months.

And another hot topic: sorcerers. How long has it taken them to add 10% absorption and 2 seconds reduced CD on the shield? I don't even want to know myself. Not that the buff really did much, since Sorcs just get stunned or sniped early anyways. And the AoE damage is just beyond pathetic.

I feel like these official feedback threads they give us are a hoax. I mean seriously, has anything really been done to the skill system in the past 5 months. Nope. Class balance? Not really, the shield buff did absolutely nothing. Yes, we do see that STS realizes there are problems, but no one wants to play broken content while they twiddle their thumbs and enjoy a coffee. There are plenty of amazing suggestions, and none of them were implemented. I think we all realize now that these events are just to stall us to give us "content" to play.

That's just my 2 cents on this. I agree 100%: PvP isn't enjoyable; it just feels like a cesspool of insult and hate.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[UndeadJudge]

The problem is that recipes, chests and helms/armors simply aren't dropping at a reasonable rate.

I have completed literally hundreds of arena runs since the drop rate "buff" and haven't even seen a recipe drop.

I have also completed hundreds of tomb runs, and looted exactly zero rods or knives, and only two or three chests.

With the drop rate of helms/armors out of chests being so absurdly low, on top of a very low drop rate of the chests themselves, it is no wonder why these imbued items (even the less desirable models) are going for tens of millions per set.

And, a recipe from arena being valued at 17-20m should be all the sign anyone needs to see to realize the drop rate is too low. I'm not sure why the recipe drop rate is so low, since the crafted amulet is bound to the toon, but if after hundreds of runs (well over 500 since the new arena dropped) where I still haven't seen a recipe, or a fossil.....well, I just think this is abusive.

I like high valued items, and I like having to earn it, but at some point, there has to be better incentive to run. I liquidated hundreds of architect, noble and shade pinks, opened hundreds upon hundreds of arena chests and received a handful of planar items, worth in total, perhaps 300k. That doesn't even cover the pots wasted there, let alone the ankhs and elixirs.

Think of it this way, if you have a 1% chance to loot a planar chest, and inside the chest is a (and let's be generous here) 1% chance to get a craftable helm/armor, you are looking at a 0.01% chance per tomb run of getting something worthwhile. To make matters worse, you have luck elixirs/lep amulets rerolling you out of planar chests and into locked crates -.-

Yeah.....

Exactly. If all this "new farming content" was supposed to be for us to work for it, it's not happening. Running planar tombs is like dropping a couple bucks on a lottery ticket, only to see that you never win. This is why I believe AL should be listed as a Casino game rather than RPG on the App Store..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Volt]

The problem is that recipes, chests and helms/armors simply aren't dropping at a reasonable rate.

I have completed literally hundreds of arena runs since the drop rate "buff" and haven't even seen a recipe drop.

I have also completed hundreds of tomb runs, and looted exactly zero rods or knives, and only two or three chests.

With the drop rate of helms/armors out of chests being so absurdly low, on top of a very low drop rate of the chests themselves, it is no wonder why these imbued items (even the less desirable models) are going for tens of millions per set.

And, a recipe from arena being valued at 17-20m should be all the sign anyone needs to see to realize the drop rate is too low. I'm not sure why the recipe drop rate is so low, since the crafted amulet is bound to the toon, but if after hundreds of runs (well over 500 since the new arena dropped) where I still haven't seen a recipe, or a fossil.....well, I just think this is abusive.

I like high valued items, and I like having to earn it, but at some point, there has to be better incentive to run. I liquidated hundreds of architect, noble and shade pinks, opened hundreds upon hundreds of arena chests and received a handful of planar items, worth in total, perhaps 300k. That doesn't even cover the pots wasted there, let alone the ankhs and elixirs.

Think of it this way, if you have a 1% chance to loot a planar chest, and inside the chest is a (and let's be generous here) 1% chance to get a craftable helm/armor, you are looking at a 0.01% chance per tomb run of getting something worthwhile. To make matters worse, you have luck elixirs/lep amulets rerolling you out of planar chests and into locked crates -.-

Yeah.....

Exactly. If all this "new farming content" was supposed to be for us to work for it, it's not happening. Running planar tombs is like dropping a couple bucks on a lottery ticket, only to see that you never win. This is why I believe AL should be listed as a Casino game rather than RPG on the App Store..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just buy elite tombs chests after 20 runs of tomb 2. 500k isn't bad at all. With a good party the max deaths u should have would be around 4. If you have a good foundation of gold, pots shouldn't be an issue after your first chest.

After many chests you should be making millions. It's what I've been doing

[GoodSyntax]

Just buy elite tombs chests after 20 runs of tomb 2. 500k isn't bad at all. With a good party the max deaths u should have would be around 4. If you have a good foundation of gold, pots shouldn't be an issue after your first chest.

After many chests you should be making millions. It's what I've been doing
It's a very long way to 17-20m, which is the current price of the amulet recipe.....

Equally far away for the price of an imbued set.

How many runs do you think you need to make before you can afford to purchase a recipe and an imbued set? Because, with current loot rates, I know I'm not getting either as a drop from the arena or planar chests.

[Volt]

Just buy elite tombs chests after 20 runs of tomb 2. 500k isn't bad at all. With a good party the max deaths u should have would be around 4. If you have a good foundation of gold, pots shouldn't be an issue after your first chest.

After many chests you should be making millions. It's what I've been doing
It's a very long way to 17-20m, which is the current price of the amulet recipe.....

Equally far away for the price of an imbued set.

How many runs do you think you need to make before you can afford to purchase a recipe and an imbued set? Because, with current loot rates, I know I'm not getting either as a drop from the arena or planar chests.

I guess I just got lucky and looted the recipe itself, but I do agree it would take long. The problem is that I just meant profit in general, not enough for recipe and imbued. My bad, I shouldn't have quoted your post also. I was just lazy haha

[Tranimall]

best of luck
yes i have experienced the things u listed above. when i first entered pvp i used to gang. now i dont coz it makes me feel bad. sometimes i lose control n i gang but then i again let them kill me the times i ganged.

pve for planar tomb/event pt me ign-Litheus
help will be said thanks coz i have only 7 planar fragments till n no one runs with me

Lets get few of us together this way, and run what we want to run. I just geared up my mage Loveblister full new mythic, I have same issue, need to find more long term group to run with. Add me, I'll help. IGN Tranimall Loveblister

[ueveotadeo]

The problem is that recipes, chests and helms/armors simply aren't dropping at a reasonable rate.

I have completed literally hundreds of arena runs since the drop rate "buff" and haven't even seen a recipe drop.

I have also completed hundreds of tomb runs, and looted exactly zero rods or knives, and only two or three chests.

With the drop rate of helms/armors out of chests being so absurdly low, on top of a very low drop rate of the chests themselves, it is no wonder why these imbued items (even the less desirable models) are going for tens of millions per set.

And, a recipe from arena being valued at 17-20m should be all the sign anyone needs to see to realize the drop rate is too low. I'm not sure why the recipe drop rate is so low, since the crafted amulet is bound to the toon, but if after hundreds of runs (well over 500 since the new arena dropped) where I still haven't seen a recipe, or a fossil.....well, I just think this is abusive.

I like high valued items, and I like having to earn it, but at some point, there has to be better incentive to run. I liquidated hundreds of architect, noble and shade pinks, opened hundreds upon hundreds of arena chests and received a handful of planar items, worth in total, perhaps 300k. That doesn't even cover the pots wasted there, let alone the ankhs and elixirs.

Think of it this way, if you have a 1% chance to loot a planar chest, and inside the chest is a (and let's be generous here) 1% chance to get a craftable helm/armor, you are looking at a 0.01% chance per tomb run of getting something worthwhile. To make matters worse, you have luck elixirs/lep amulets rerolling you out of planar chests and into locked crates -.-

Yeah.....

I couldnt agree more with your post.

[Pillowhead]

I started PvP 2013 7th June ( Idk the season ) But i got a screenshot from that day. Me and my sister always played together with gear that costed around 50k.
It was so fun, everyone was gj:ing you if you got a double kill, they asked nicely for 1vs1 and always said gf, gj. And that made me to do the same thing, telling everyone Gj Gf and so on.

Sadly...
Nothing is fair in PvP nowadays, overpowered people gathering together just to kill everyone and then insult them : "noob call" "noob cry" "dont run noob" "free food" and that makes me sick, I get angry and write back. That is how you make people to flamers.

I've quit the game already, and I'm kinda glad that I did..
@-@

http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag306/laikenny/Mobile%20Uploads/2013-10/160FEB92-1607-4CD8-8BC9-B26F660CB887_zps1mc5sj6g.png (http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/laikenny/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2013-10/160FEB92-1607-4CD8-8BC9-B26F660CB887_zps1mc5sj6g.png.html)

[Robhawk]

Well the problems are known ( mage class weak, breeze, no new maps, nothing new for ages, a.s.o)
So one after another gonna quit PVP and in the next consequence quit the game!

I said that long time ago but its still up to date: The PVP`ers in my opinion fund this game not the free PVE`ers !!!


@raw: We meet a lot at tdm and there were good and bad days (you ganged me, i ganged you)... as you wrote in opening post - i agree with you in all points!

[Xorrior]

What we need are invite-rooms in pvp. I wouldn't mind joking around in pvp, really don't care about KDR.

Invite rooms will keep trash talkers standing around talking to themselves while others fight in invited rooms and have fun again :)

[Candylicks]

What we need are invite-rooms in pvp. I wouldn't mind joking around in pvp, really don't care about KDR.

Invite rooms will keep trash talkers standing around talking to themselves while others fight in invited rooms and have fun again :)

That's what they did in PL, but the problem is here with the LB you will have kill farming. The locked rooms would have to be for practice or have a different sort of point system to them, or it would get abused. But yes, locked rooms are a TON of fun for PvP.

[GoodSyntax]

That's what they did in PL, but the problem is here with the LB you will have kill farming. The locked rooms would have to be for practice or have a different sort of point system to them, or it would get abused. But yes, locked rooms are a TON of fun for PvP.

As if there already isn't kill farming -.-

Kill farmers will continue to farm kills....that's just the way it is, leaderboard or not. I saw tons of kill farmers in PL - and there wasn't a LB that made it something to chase after. Some people just like to see big numbers in their PvP stats, whatever the means, whether kill farming, ganging, etc.

[Candylicks]

As if there already isn't kill farming -.-

Kill farmers will continue to farm kills....that's just the way it is, leaderboard or not. I saw tons of kill farmers in PL - and there wasn't a LB that made it something to chase after. Some people just like to see big numbers in their PvP stats, whatever the means, whether kill farming, ganging, etc.

Right but with locked rooms it would be even easier.

[nevercan]

Right but with locked rooms it would be even easier.
If it makes pvp more fun it is more importand (to me) even if there are more kil farmers

[Imcarla]

Right but with locked rooms it would be even easier.

They shouldn't imply a lock system, what they should do is imply a system where we can host games and boot whoever we want. Of course, kill farmers could host games and farm.

[Candylicks]

Having a booting system doesn't work in my opinion. It does nothing to promote good sportsmanship or encourage new players to learn pvp.

[Xorrior]

In pvp invite rooms maybe kill farming is turned off ? Or maybe halt pvp kill count on toons with huge negative KDR.

[Imcarla]

Having a booting system doesn't work in my opinion. It does nothing to promote good sportsmanship or encourage new players to learn pvp..

You have a point, booting has disadvantages. Though it has advantages :
- You are in a game and you're enjoying challenging/dueling eachother and someone joins and ruins the "fun". A simple boot would help.
- You are doing a 4v4 and the other team invites their guildie/friend to get some help and your team ends up with a low skilled player. The 5v5 is now unfair. A simple boot "Sorry, we need your spot to make the battle as fair as possible" would help.
- You are the host and you are getting ganged. You would love to 1v1 each of them, but they continue/trash talk/call even more to gang. Booting would be the option.

Booting has more advantages and IMO it would be a good idea (Like we had in PL).

[Serancha]

Well the problems are known ( mage class weak, breeze, no new maps, nothing new for ages, a.s.o)
So one after another gonna quit PVP and in the next consequence quit the game!

I said that long time ago but its still up to date: The PVP`ers in my opinion fund this game not the free PVE`ers !!!


@raw: We meet a lot at tdm and there were good and bad days (you ganged me, i ganged you)... as you wrote in opening post - i agree with you in all points!


There are just as many, if not more paying customers in PvE. Trying to imply that PvE players don't spend plat is insulting in my opinion. We use ankhs and elixirs AND buy gear and open as many crates as any pvp player does. Just because we farm for gear doesn't mean we're not spending money. Making it huge and red doesn't make a statement true.

[Zeus]

Invite only rooms would mean there's no need for a boot button. If you want to play in a room the way you want it, make an invite only room.

Kill farmers exist and having invite rooms wouldn't make much difference. Why should everybody else have to suffer for 75 people on the Ctf kills LB (a lot of which are kill farmers to begin with).

[Seoratrek]

Hi there!

This is another reminder to keep the discussion friendly. Let's avoid sweeping generalizations and insults. I see some interesting points being made so let's keep it constructive. Thanks! :)

[Ellysius]

Just today as a rogue,i killed full geared rogue (Ring,Sam,Elo Bow) named Maping,the score between us was 6:3 for me.
I was just patient,using the walls.
Tho vs-ing tanks and mages is totaly different.
If they have better gear that you,you're toasted.
My current gear is: Exp Bow,Mythic Set,Blood Ruby and Eerie.

[Robhawk]

There are just as many, if not more paying customers in PvE. Trying to imply that PvE players don't spend plat is insulting in my opinion. We use ankhs and elixirs AND buy gear and open as many crates as any pvp player does. Just because we farm for gear doesn't mean we're not spending money. Making it huge and red doesn't make a statement true.

Ok my words where a little harsh regarding PVE, sorry. Let me get to this from another direction:

PVP CTF was introduced about 2 years ago and the only change since then was adding TDM, NOTHING ELSE !!! I really mean NOTHING except bugfixing takes ages (arcane maul was bugged for more then a year, currently breeze is an annoyance)
So in PVE there were tons of events every 3 month.
So lets assume PVE and PVP players purchase the same amount of plat, why do the PVE`s get lots of new content and the PVP`s get just nothing?

Are you with me?


edit: Also id be interested who purchases more plat, the mainly PVE or the PVP players, would be a great analysis for STS to figure out how important PVP really is or perhaps not... but im quite sure that the money STS makes with PVP players is at least 50% !!!

[Imcarla]

Ok my words where a little harsh regarding PVE, sorry. Let me get to this from another direction:

PVP CTF was introduced about 2 years ago and the only change since then was adding TDM, NOTHING ELSE !!! I really mean NOTHING except bugfixing takes ages (arcane maul was bugged for more then a year, currently breeze is an annoyance)
So in PVE there were tons of events every 3 month.
So lets assume PVE and PVP players purchase the same amount of plat, why do the PVE`s get lots of new content and the PVP`s get just nothing?

Are you with me?


edit: Also id be interested who purchases more plat, the mainly PVE or the PVP players, would be a great analysis for STS to figure out how important PVP really is or perhaps not... but im quite sure that the money STS makes with PVP players is at least 50% !!!

Sorry but I have to disagree. To PvP well, you need good gear. To get that gear you need money. To get that money, you either open lock crates which takes a big amount of platinum, OR you need to PvE and farm like "pve'rs" as you said.

If you understand me well, both type of players have to PvE and run the events.

So, we have to agree PvE/Events are not only a benefit to pve'ers but also to pvp'ers.

[Robhawk]

Sorry but I have to disagree. To PvP well, you need good gear. To get that gear you need money. To get that money, you either open lock crates which takes a big amount of platinum, OR you need to PvE and farm like "pve'rs" as you said.

If you understand me well, both type of players have to PvE and run the events.

So, we have to agree PvE/Events are not only a benefit to pve'ers but also to pvp'ers.

Aha, ok... then tell me please what should i "PVE-farm" to get 100m+ gold to buy an arcane ring and a samael to be maxed out at PVP... running for lockeds at brackenridge? Or perhaps invest a lot of real money to either make it directly to gold or gamble with opening lockeds?

I ask you: How many arcane ring owners got all the needed gold by farming at PVE? You really think there is even one? I also want to remind you that there is currently nothing it is worth farming in this game! The drop rates of recipes (new myth amuelt) and other good things is ridiculous low, so its the same like opening locked crates...

[Imcarla]

Aha, ok... then tell me please what should i "PVE-farm" to get 100m+ gold to buy an arcane ring and a samael to be maxed out at PVP... running for lockeds at brackenridge? Or perhaps invest a lot of real money to either make it directly to gold or gamble with opening lockeds?

I ask you: How many arcane ring owners got all the needed gold by farming at PVE? You really think there is even one? I also want to remind you that there is currently nothing it is worth farming in this game! The drop rates of recipes (new myth amuelt) and other good things is ridiculous low, so its the same like opening locked crates...

Sorry, i have to disagree once again. Yes, a big amount of the players make their money by purchasing platinum. Though, you can't speak for everyone. There are many players who do not spend a dollar on the game and achieve have. It takes an enormous amount of patience but you can do it by farming events/elites/merching.

[Lightzzout]

He scared to face me that's y he's quiting..😵

[raw]

After a lot of thought I've decided to return back to TDM for a few reasons. I dont not intend to ever return to CTF though...

TDM and CTF are completely different beasts. TDM allows me to play with randoms (without having to call), have more space to play around in (no SNS pools stacking in narrow hallways), short games (no 2 hour ctf clashes), and a multitude of TDM matches so I can simply leave one and join another. TDM embodies what I'm looking for in PvP... to play quick fun games with randoms (non guild oriented style of PvP, unlike CTF). What I really like about TDM is that the top rogues aren't even fully geared, so here skill is most important. A legendary rogue can theoretically take me down if they sneak up on me and combo at the right moment. That's something that's nearly impossible in CTF.

Anyway, if you see me in TDM don't call me a hypocrite =P

and yes, Lightzzout you're too OP in 27. I'd get wrecked if I tried to go up against you!

[Arpluvial]

Hey guys,

This thread is no longer constructive, so I am going to go ahead and lock it down. Please remember to keep it friendly. :)