Looting, Fights and Marketplace

[DarkMio]

All Code-Quotes belongs to Sacred and Ascaron Entertainment & Deep Silver. Respect their work. I use their values as reference.

I have a real problem with the Loots in Pocket Legends. ATM I get every 5 hours a pink item. But Orange and Green Items are a lot more often than white and greyitems.
There goes something wrong. So I thought a lot about the problem in PL and under my shower I got a nice idea.
Explain the rules of RPG-Lootrates with help from some professionals.

Now comes the first part of code, all measures in promilles.

local newBalanceValues = {
[...]
ZRareExpectation15 = 2,
ZRareExpectation14 = 6,
ZRareExpectation13 = 14,
ZRareExpectation12 = 16,
ZRareExpectation11 = 24,
ZRareExpectation10 = 34,
ZRareExpectation09 = 46,
ZRareExpectation08 = 58,
ZRareExpectation07 = 72,
ZRareExpectation06 = 88,
ZRareExpectation05 = 106,
ZRareExpectation04 = 124,
ZRareExpectation03 = 144,
ZRareExpectation02 = 166,
ZRareExpectation01 = 456,
ZRareExpectation00 = 1000,
ZRareBasepoints15 = 1350,
ZRareBasepoints14 = 1320,
ZRareBasepoints13 = 1290,
ZRareBasepoints12 = 1260,
ZRareBasepoints11 = 1230,
ZRareBasepoints10 = 1200,
ZRareBasepoints09 = 1175,
ZRareBasepoints08 = 1150,
ZRareBasepoints07 = 1125,
ZRareBasepoints06 = 1100,
ZRareBasepoints05 = 1080,
ZRareBasepoints04 = 1060,
ZRareBasepoints03 = 1040,
ZRareBasepoints02 = 1020,
ZRareBasepoints01 = 1000,
ZRareBasepoints00 = 750,
[...]

The GREEN-Code:
This are dropvalues. A commondrop (ZRareExpentation00) is notationed with 1000%o, means 100% normal dropfactor. The Expentation means, if higher, it is more rare.
So, in PL a grey-item will be dropped. (Okay, the Gamesystem is a little different...)
A purple Item (ZRareExpectation11) is dropped will be dropped with a value of 24%o. Means: You have a 2,4% chance to drop a purple item. Ever 1000 drops you have ~24 purple items.
A PINK-Item in PL will have a chance of 6%o - 0,6% chance.

As explaination: The DARKRED-Code is a modifier. If an ITEM is more rare (here set-items), it has more modificated values.
A 7-8 DEF-Armor has as a pink-Armor 132 DEF.
Maybe for PL a little unfair - maybe 13,2 DEFpoints would be more fair. But anyways:
The droprates in PL are incredible.


Now we make it more complicated:

local beValues = {
NORMAL_STANDARD = 350,
NORMAL_RUNE = 15,
CHAMP_STANDARD = 700,
CHAMP_RUNE = 45,
BOSS_STANDARD = 1000,
BOSS_RUNE = 600,
EXTRAGOLD = 0,
EXTRAPOTION = 0,
EXTRARUNE = 0,
Trader_Item = 2300,
Trader_Many = 10000,
Trader_SpecialOffer = 0,
Well_Potion = 1000,
QUEST_UNIQUE = 1000,
SUBFAMDROP_LOWCHANCE = 10,
SUBFAMDROP_HIGHCHANCE = 100,
}

The DARKGREEN-Code means following:
NORMAL_STANDARD = 350 means: You have a chance of 350%o that something drops when you kill a causual creature. Every 35% you have a drop.
So, if you are lucky, the dices were lucky, you have a chance of 35% that an item will be dropped. This is multiplied to to the upper-drops.
So you have 35%-Chance that something drops and 0,2%-Chance for a SET-LEGENDARY-Item. Means: From every 100 killed Creatures you get 35 items. And every 1000 Items will be 2 of them a SET-LEGENDARY-Item.
So you have a chance of 0,07% that you get such an Item.
10.000 Creatures killed - 7 SET-Items. But only if you are really lucky. Only ment for causual creatures / NPCs.
If you kill a Champ (Miniboss) you have a chance of 700%o / 70% dropchance, same rules of Itemdroppings like above.
When you kill an ENDBOSS you have a chance of 1000%o / 100% that something drops.
The RUNES are in Sacred a special way to get your magical skills.

Another Droptwist:
SUBFAMDROP is a Dicevalue. Whenever you kill an creature, you can have luck, and your CHANCE that SOMETHING DROPS can increase from 10%o / 1% to 10%. So you can have the best dropchance of 110%! With a little luck 2 Items! Cool, eh?


Okayokay, enough from maths, now we point a values.
My next problem with this game:
I started with Lvl 1 - Lvl 20. You have here drops of max. 15Gold when you crush a chest. With Lvl 50 you have nearly the same max-gold-drops. WTF? WHY I AM LVL 50 AND GET NO MONEY? IT IS NORMAL, IN EVERY GAME, THAT THE GOLDAMOUNT INCREASES WITH LVLs. Higher Level -> More Golddrops.
But not in Pocket Legends. :(

Point 2: PL seems to be a little stiff with attributes. Enemys have the same attributes as usual. Everything works on the same old way, you know what I mean. I can hit 2 times a mummy. And I can hit 2 Times another mummy.
But the mummy had a long life, the mummy trained hard and they are differently skilled. No mummy has the same history.

So, here is my suggestion from Sacred 2:

local basetables = {

tableRows = 16,

-- begin of some hard-coded data
EFFECTDURATION = {500,3000,5000,5000},
-- end of hard-coded data
QuestExplow = {20,25,30,40,50},
QuestGoldlow = {25,30,35,40,50},
SpellFactorDiff = {800,1000,1200,1500,2000},
QuestGoldmax = {3025,4030,5035,6040,8050},
DefenseFactorDiff = {650,1000,1500,2500,4500},
QuestExpmax = {4020,5025,6030,8040,10050},
MP_experience = {1000,1150,1325,1550,1825},
NPC_speedfac_any = {1000,1050,1100,1175,1250},
AttackFactorDiff = {800,1000,1750,2750,4500},
DamageFactorDiff = {1000,1050,1200,1350,1500},
LifeFactorDiff = {1000,1400,2000,3000,4000},
MP_damage = {1000,1050,1100,1160,1220},
MP_lifeHP = {1000,1300,1650,2100,2650},
MP_EShieldHP = {1000,1300,1650,2100,2650},
MP_combatvalue = {1000,1100,1210,1330,1460},
MP_armor = {1000,1100,1210,1330,1460},
Spawn_OffsetLow = {0,0,40,70,110},
Spawn_OffsetHigh = {0,35,80,120,175},
Spawn_FactorPM = {1000,1100,1175,1250,1350},
PriceFactor = {700,1000,1400,1900,2500},
RuneLevel = {1,1,20,35,50},
Potion_big_duration = {9000,9000,9000,9000,7500},
Potion_small_duration = {9000,8000,7000,5500,4000},
Potion_middle_duration = {9000,9000,8000,7000,6000},
NPC_attrWdam_fact = {1000,1100,1250,1500,2000},
MP_intensity = {1000,1100,1210,1330,1460},
LevelCapDiff = {60,100,140,180,200},
BlacksmithSkillForDiff = {1,20,60,105,150},
LevelMinForDiff = {1,1,60,100,140},
AllEnemy_lvl = {1,10,20,200,250},
Enemy_armor = {800,900,1000,6000,7200},
Enemy_weapondamage = {650,850,1000,3300,3630},
Enemy_spelldamage = {500,800,1000,3500,3850},
SpellAttackFactorMT = {1000,1330,2000,2000},
SpellDefenseFactorMT = {1000,1750,2500,2500},
HitFactorMT = {1000,1500,2000,2000},
DamageFactorMT = {1000,1200,1400,1400},
LifeQuotientMT = {2500,800,125,125},
}

We have here a lot of values.
First: QuestGoldlow & QuestGoldmax.
Whenever you complete a quest, you have here a normal amount of gold.
Maybe we say: 100Gold. So, if you had a bad day, you can get 100G*20%o = 100G*2% = (100G/100)*2 = 2Gold. :(
But if you are lucky: 100G * 8050%o = 100G*805% = (100G/100)*805 = 805Gold! :D

Then we have some ATTRIBUTION-Changers:
I marked the necessary part in red... ;)
So we say, we have 4 mummys. Their base-value is ... lemme say lvl 45, 100 DEF, 100 ATK, 1.0 SPEED.
So we have here: Enemy_ARMOR, Enemy_WEAPONDEMAGE, Enemy_SPELLDEMAGE.
These are modificators. So a mummy can have 720DEF and 65ATK or 100DEF and 330ATK. Every Attack will be diced and their factors can be different. The last thing works in PL really really well. :)
And some mummys are really really old and others are ... 2 days mummyficated. So some are faster, and some slower. There we have the NPC_speedfac_any. This changes their moving-speed and their attack-speed. This is really useful to simulate a more realistic MMORPG.

I have a lot more statistics and values - but this goes toooo deep to handle this in a only thread.

Now my NOT-MATHSRELATED-THING but annoying too:
HELL?! WHAT IS HERE WRONG? I sold LEGENDARY LVL 20 Items for 2k - and the most of my LEGENDARY LVL 50 Items sold for 333G? WTF?!
What is wrong with the auction-house?

With PL-Inflation the prices should be high as hell... and I see there the problem with the drop rates.






This is only my opinion of view. You haven't to read everything - if you are a dev, you should it anyways.
If you like my thoughts: Response please.
If the devs have more interests about this thing: Mail me.

Excuse my english, I'm from germany.


Best regards, it's a funny and nice game - but I miss these complexive gameplay,

Mio

[superglut2]

Kompliziert :-D

[DarkMio]

Looting is a really complicated thing - in PL it seems that it is really really simplified...
I wrote a part of 'how can looting work' here, maybe they accept is as suggestion.

If you are in a Dungeon there are a lot of dicing-proccesses:
1.) Dice all creatures and their Values.
2.) Dice everytime the attacks - that works quite well.
3.) Dice - depending on the lootingchance - if it will drop or not.
4.) Dice the Itemrarity.
5.) Dice the modificators for Items.
... And so on - it will take a lot more power - but whey, my 333MHz PC can handle a 8-Player game with the complete map (Sacred 2 World is FREEEAAAKY HUGE!)
This PC can handle surrounding Mobs (max ~200 NPCs) - it can handle 50 deaths and looting-dices per second ...
So, if the server programmed performantly, this whole Game will work - and with a lot more lootings.
Thats what I'm missing ...

[drewcapu]

I have a real problem with the Loots in Pocket Legends. ATM I get every 5 hours a pink item. But Orange and Green Items are a lot more often than white and greyitems.


Where are you getting more greens/oranges than whites/greys?

There are some places that drop nothing lower than orange/green etc.

It's all random, which is how it should be, as opposed to kill x number and get x item.

I've had some farming runs in FH4 where I got oranges and greens about 60% of the time. While I've had times when it was far lower than that.

[DarkMio]

With my Mage I get mostly Greens and Oranges.
?! ?! This isn't normal - so there is a not really fine Lootingsystem.
And there is nothing random ... :<

[noneo]

Wow, this is very informative! I have been wondering the mechanics of the drop rates for a while now, and this actually clears a lot up for me.

[Royce]

Wow, this is very informative! I have been wondering the mechanics of the drop rates for a while now, and this actually clears a lot up for me.

This isn't how it works. I believe the poster is trying to suggest an alternate drop system. How drops work is that they are completely random. Mobs have a chance to drop an item (bosses usually 100%), then you randomly draw from a loot table with more common items being more likely to drop than rarer ones (though the least rare varieties are sometimes removed from boss loot and even some entire campaigns). Drops are totally random in that your group or number of people does not affect your personal drop, and there is no way to affect yor drop chance other than a luck elixir.

[Physiologic]

You're basically telling the developers of PL to scrap their drop tables and use "Sacred and Ascaron Entertainment & Deep Silver"' drop coding? Yeah I don't think that's going to work.

[Moogerfooger]

Nette Ideen...aber ueberkompliziert (wie superglut sagte) und wahrshcheinlich wird nie in PL passieren. There is no reason why the devs should make their drop tables more complicated than they are, just to make them more "complex" like another game from another company.

I do agree about the chests though...I always thought it kind of funny that I gold the same gold from a chest in AO3 as I did in Forest Haven.

p.s. Entschuldigen Sie mein Deutsch...einfach schrecklich.

[noneo]

Thanks for clearing it up Royce. I was wondering how he got the code and knew so much about it.

[Moogerfooger]

Thanks for clearing it up Royce. I was wondering how he got the code and knew so much about it.

He was using code from another game and how that game's looting system works as an example, and making suggestions like Royce said...nothing wrong with that, but Royce didn't want ya thinking that's how it is in PL :p

[DarkMio]

First of all: It is NOT server-side code from POCKET LEGENDS.

This is server-side code from Sacred 2.

I only given some maths examples how the most RPGs / MMORPGs work.
The mainly thing I tried to express: 'Pocket Legends has a older Lootingsystem than Wizardry 7 - and this is from ~2000.'

The second thing was: The LEGENDARY Items are not Legendary. They are dropped by normal playing.
A LEGENDARY Item should been really really special. And atm. every LVL 55 Char can have easily legendary sets. Only by playing some rounds in dungeons.

And there are not enough varieties of items. If I look into my old CABAL Online account, you see sooooo many different people - different items and so on ...
This variety and speciality is missing for me. :<

(And that I won't sell legendary items for so cheap prizes...)

BTW: Thanks for the 4-Star rating for this thread.

[Addicted]

p.s. Entschuldigen Sie mein Deutsch...einfach schrecklich.

Warum zur Hölle bist du Entsendung in Deutsch auf einer Website Englisch? LOL

[Physiologic]

The second thing was: The LEGENDARY Items are not Legendary. They are dropped by normal playing.
A LEGENDARY Item should been really really special. And atm. every LVL 55 Char can have easily legendary sets. Only by playing some rounds in dungeons.


You're going to have a lot of people opposing this statement because they haven't received any lv 51/53/55 legendary drops yet.

It took me a total of ~450 runs to get 3 legendary drops in Balefort Sewers. An average run takes me 5 minutes to complete, so that's a total of 37.5 hours I've spent gaining exp and farming at the same time for 3 legendary drops.

Some people claim they took ~200-400 runs to get 7-10 legendary drops.

Some people claim they haven't gotten a single drop after the same amount of runs.

So no, not every lv 55 char can get legendary sets by "playing some rounds in dungeons."

[DarkMio]

Aha? oô
I'm atm. at Alien Overlord Crush the Keeper or something...
There I get ever 3 - 5 Hours active play min. 1 Legendary Item.

The second thing is - why are the prices in the auctionhouse ... nearly zero? This makes no profit - only stress. D:



P.S.: You ment: Warum zur Hölle bist du Entsendung in Deutsch auf einer Website Englisch? LOL - Verdammte Scheiße, wieso entschuldigst du dich in deutsch, wenn die Website auf Englisch ist? LOL

[Moogerfooger]

Warum zur Hölle bist du Entsendung in Deutsch auf einer Website Englisch? LOL

Who said this was an English-only website? No one. Not to mention he is in Germany, I speak some German (albeit poorly) and thought he might understand my point better if I tried in German. And next time, try using a better translation program.

BTW, Dark, the Keeper 'legendarys' do not have very good stats, except for maybe the Keeper Staff of the Cosmos...that is why those Keeper pinks are not worth very much. Pink legendary items from the Shadow Caves and Balefort Sewers seem to drop much less often, and are worth much more money.

Bis naechstes :P

[Physiologic]

Aha? oô
I'm atm. at Alien Overlord Crush the Keeper or something...
There I get ever 3 - 5 Hours active play min. 1 Legendary Item.

The second thing is - why are the prices in the auctionhouse ... nearly zero? This makes no profit - only stress. D:



P.S.: You ment: Warum zur Hölle bist du Entsendung in Deutsch auf einer Website Englisch? LOL - Verdammte Scheiße, wieso entschuldigst du dich in deutsch, wenn die Website auf Englisch ist? LOL

The Balefort Sewer drops are very different, and much rarer IMO.

There's also a difference in terms of "legendary" grading as well. In Alien Oasis, there's tons and tons of legendary pinks that aren't as good as the PREMIUM legendary pinks. The Premium legendary pinks are the ones that make up an item set and an item bonus, and those drops are very low.

In Balefort Sewers, you only have really nice premium legendary pink drops, and those drop rates are very very low.

[Addicted]

Who said this was an English-only website? No one. Not to mention he is in Germany, I speak some German (albeit poorly) and thought he might understand my point better if I tried in German. And next time, try using a better translation program.

I apologize. I think my sense of humor was lost in translation. I was curious about what you wrote so I used a translator, then I thought the irony of posting a question in German would make the tongue-in-cheek nature of the joke obvious. I meant no offense or disrespect. It was also a poor choice of words, poorly translated that made my weak attempt at humor come across more like a fool pretending to be smart.

Apologies to both MoogerFooger and DarkMio - just a joke gone bad.

[Moogerfooger]

No worries or apologies needed, Addicted...I was in work-related hell yesterday and not my normal sunny self.

[DarkMio]

I know what you mean.
Mio takes a sunbath - 35°C - hot - sweating - a nearly naked girl in a bikini asked me:
'Can you do the sunmilk?"
Mios answer: 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! IT SHOULD BEEN NAMED: CAN YOU DO THAT SUNMILK, PLEEEAAASSSSEEEEEE!!!!?!?!'

D: