Int in a paladin.

[Kossi]

so i have a level 30 black-ice pally named kois. and he shall be mine
and im str/int speced (dual), but i always use str, not mage
do awhile back, i tested on my friend who was also a mage, but with str/dex speced (no int)
turns out, we both did the same spell damage!

the question is: do i really need int if im never going to be a mage? and should i just put all the int points into dex for hit% crit and dodge?

[noobmigo]

so i have a level 30 black-ice pally named kois. and he shall be mine
and im str/int speced (dual), but i always use str, not mage
do awhile back, i tested on my friend who was also a mage, but with str/dex speced (no int)
turns out, we both did the same spell damage!

the question is: do i really need int if im never going to be a mage? and should i just put all the int points into dex for hit% crit and dodge?

Question 1: Both absolutely same Skill Build and Items?
Observation 1: HerWolf tested a build for 20 Str/Dex mage, it blew.
Observation 2: The extra 60-80 dex is not really going to affect anything but damage and hit %. Added crit will be...maybe...3-5? and added dodge will be 1-3.
That's it for now, Noobmigo will be back with more question for the Noobmigo Game Show.

[Royce]

I'd go with a mix maybe (mainly for hit%). Int does raise skill damage more than Dex, so the only way to explain a Str/Dex Mage having the same skill damage as a Str/Int mage would be the Str/Dex mage carrying a more powerful weapon. If you have the same equipment, Int should always raise skill damage more.

[noobmigo]

I'd go with a mix maybe. Int does raise skill damage more than Dex, so the only way to explain a Str/Dex Mage having the same skill damage as a Str/Int mage would be the Str/Dex mage carrying a more powerful weapon. If you have the same equipment, Int should always raise skill damage more.

Thats what I was thinking.

[Kossi]

Question 1: Both absolutely same Skill Build and Items?
Observation 1: HerWolf tested a build for 20 Str/Dex mage, it blew.
Observation 2: The extra 60-80 dex is not really going to affect anything but damage and hit %. Added crit will be...maybe...3-5? and added dodge will be 1-3.
That's it for now, Noobmigo will be back with more question for the Noobmigo Game Show.

it was deronwilliams, i believe we had same skill distribution, and SAME damage

[Kossi]

I'd go with a mix maybe (mainly for hit%). Int does raise skill damage more than Dex, so the only way to explain a Str/Dex Mage having the same skill damage as a Str/Int mage would be the Str/Dex mage carrying a more powerful weapon. If you have the same equipment, Int should always raise skill damage more.

i had a iceberg axe, he had a shivering talon.

[noobmigo]

i had a iceberg axe, he had a shivering talon.

Hmm.........


it was deronwilliams, i believe we had same skill distribution, and SAME damage
Isn't deronwilliams a 32? Which is even weirder.

[Royce]

i had a iceberg axe, he had a shivering talon.

Axes are famous for their poor skill damage contribution (the limbchopper being a huge exception). I don't have skill damage data specifically for those two weapons but I would imagine that's the issue. The best level 30 1-hand Str weapon for increasing skill damage would probably be a sword or a level 30 lizard lance if you can find one.

[noobmigo]

Axes are famous for their poor skill damage contribution (the limbchopper being a huge exception). I don't have skill damage data specifically for those two weapons but I would imagine that's the issue. The best level 30 1-hand Str weapon for increasing skill damag would probably be a sword or a level 30 lizard lance if you can find one.

Seriously? I thought just base damage affected skill damage contribution. So with a axe with the same damage as a hammer, the hammer would have more skill damage?

[Kossi]

hmmm.. im not too thrilled about having to spend another 2p for a respec, yeah, yeah, im cheap/ is it really worth it? i also need a little bit of m/s

[noobmigo]

hmmm.. im not too thrilled about having to spend another 2p for a respec, is it really worth it? i also need a little bit of m/s

2 free tapjoy offers. I used tapjoy to cover most of the cost of me dropping 100 plat on chummywarm's respecs and a couple for chumtestbear's respecs.

[Kossi]

but what if i decide that dex isnt good, and that str/int was better?

[noobmigo]

but what if i decide that dex isnt good, and that str/int was better?

2 more. :)
I've set aside a day where all I do for PL is farm tapjoy offers and save my plat. Maybe for 3 days.

[Royce]

Seriously? I thought just base damage affected skill damage contribution. So with a axe with the same damage as a hammer, the hammer would have more skill damage?

In general higher damage weapons tend to add more to skill damage but there are many exceptions. It varies a lot by weapon type (axe vs sword vs spear, etc), by 1 or 2-handedness (2 handers contribute a relatively lower portion of damage to skill, though still usually a bit more than 1 handers since they tend to have much higher weapon damage), and by campaign (swamp 2-hand swords can give you devastating skills while AO2 2-hand sword give a pretty weak skill damage boost).

[noobmigo]

In general higher damage weapons tend to add more to skill damage but there are many exceptions. It varies a lot by weapon type (axe vs sword vs spear, etc), by 1 or 2-handedness (2 handers contribute a relatively lower portion of damage to skill, though still usually a bit more than 1 handers since they tend to have much higher weapon damage), and by campaign (swamp 2-hand swords can give you devastating skills while AO2 2-hand sword give a pretty weak skill damage boost).

I don't get that though. Does that mean Swamp Swords have more DMG than AO2 swords?
I didn't know that specific campaign items affected your skill damage.

[Royce]

I don't get that though. Does that mean Swamp Swords have more DMG than AO2 swords?
I didn't know that specific campaign items affected your skill damage.

No, basically here's where skill damage comes from, four factors:

1. Skill rank (1-6)

2. Stat driven skills (Int raises skill damage directly for elves, Str for bears, Dex for birds)

3. Base damage - this is the damage that does not include weapon damage. It comes from attributes, and from gear bonuses other than weapon damage (items like armor or helms that boost damage, set bonus damage increases, etc). 100% if base damage is added to skill damage.

4. Weapon damage - this is the confusing one. A portion of your weapon damage us added to skill damage. Exactly how large that portion is seems to depend on many factors that would seem to include, but not be limited to: Type of weapon (axe, wand, sword, bow, staff, dagger etc.), campaign if origin for the weapon and/or level, 1 vs 2-handedness of the weapon, the weapon's damage itself, and perhaps something random ;)

Edit: and I should note, you can't always tell simple weapon damage from looking at weapon stats. Some weapons seem to provide both a base damage increase and weapon damage and both are just combined in the weapon's stats. All mega Mage items, for instance provide 10 base damage, including weapons, so when you look at the stats of a MM weapon the damage shown is the weapon damage plus 10 base damage .

[FluffNStuff]

I don't get that though. Does that mean Swamp Swords have more DMG than AO2 swords?
I didn't know that specific campaign items affected your skill damage.

Weapon damage to skill damage is big ball of messed up right now. And yes, Swamp Two hand swords add more damage then AO2 and AO3 two hand swords. The hammer got around the later two hand skill damage nerf simply by having an insane amount of damage, even though it's ratio of weapon damage to skill damage is so low.

[noobmigo]

No, basically here's where skill damage comes from, four factors:

1. Skill rank (1-6)

2. Stat driven skills (Int raises skill damage directly for elves, Str for bears, Dex for birds)


3. Base damage - this is the damage that does not include weapon damage. It comes from attributes, and from gear bonuses other than weapon damage (items like armor or helms that boost damage, set bonus damage increases, etc). 100% if base damage is added to skill damage.

4. Weapon damage - this is the confusing one. A portion of your weapon damage us added to skill damage. Exactly how large that portion is seems to depend on many factors that would seem to include, but not be limited to: Type of weapon (axe, wand, sword, bow, staff, dagger etc.), campaign if origin for the weapon and/or level, 1 vs 2-handedness of the weapon, the weapon's damage itself, and perhaps something random ;)

Edit: and I should note, you can't always tell simple weapon damage from looking at weapon stats. Some weapons seem to provide both a base damage increase and weapon damage and both are just combined in the weapon's stats. All mega Mage items, for instance provide 10 base damage, including weapons, so when you look at the stats of a MM weapon the damage shown is the weapon damage plus 10 base damage .

I just read Physiologic's guide for Skill damage Contribution.
I sorta get it now. Thanks Royce.

[Sky../]

Just thought about something while reading this thread. Maybe weapons without procs contribute more to skill damage, while those that proc would provide less.

[RedRyder]

wont a mage without any int mean that their skills will do nothing? isnt that what the stat based skills update a while back for? o.O

[Royce]

wont a mage without any int mean that their skills will do nothing? isnt that what the stat based skills update a while back for? o.O

Not nothing, just lower. Dex also raises your skill damage by raising your damage. Int raises your base damage less than Dex but also raises skill damage through stat driven skills, so overall Int gives the highest skill damage for elves. Besides that all skills have some amount of damage they do simply based on rank, so even a pure Str pally would do some damage with their skills, just not nearly as much as any other build ;)