Warriors we want to play to!

[legendarytelly]

Sts,

The warrior character wants to be able to play end game to. The current set up does not allow warriors to be able to play end game. You constantly see need dps or need rouge in guilds. This is why you go in arena and its always tanks waiting. Other warriors and myself find ourselves searching for parties longer than actually playing the game. I understand warriors suppose to take damage in arcane legends but that joke image of what a warrior really is, is back firing. What you have is people not wanting to run with warriors because we don't deal enough damage and it takes to long. My suggestion is to buff warriors in pve not saying pvp but pve. WE WANT TO PLAY TO!

Honestly,
Legend

[Caabatric]

Yep the arena is just like warriors do nothing.
same with tombs if you do proper pulls.

[Zylx]

I personally prefer running with a warrior if they are good at taking aggro.

[Ravager]

Let axe throw work on arena bosses!

[TastyChickens]

yes, i just started warrior and noticed itz weeak at damage

[legendarytelly]

It's seriously hard getting in game parties because everyone wants dps at least give us the ability to lower armor find a way to make us useful in tombs and arena something

[Maarkus]

Sts,

The warrior character wants to be able to play end game to. The current set up does not allow warriors to be able to play end game. You constantly see need dps or need rouge in guilds. This is why you go in arena and its always tanks waiting. Other warriors and myself find ourselves searching for parties longer than actually playing the game. I understand warriors suppose to take damage in arcane legends but that joke image of what a warrior really is, is back firing. What you have is people not wanting to run with warriors because we don't deal enough damage and it takes to long. My suggestion is to buff warriors in pve not saying pvp but pve. WE WANT TO PLAY TO!

Honestly,
Legend

I hope STS looks into the matter, as the situation is getting worse for warriors in PVE. It's not about stats or getting the OP gear endgame anymore, Warriors just slow down the party.

As mentioned in a different post, modesty aside I have practically maxed or near maxed gear ( as Ravagerx puts it) and as and I am not as efficient as a rogue with medium gear in elite runs. My stats reach 50crit 700dmg and 800dps and yet a medium geared rogue is more efficient.

I have come to terms that increasing damage and Dps is not enough, thus it tried to increase my crit percentage which helped but it's still not enough.

It's really the warrior skills that have to be reviewed as this is where the game fails the Warriors.
I'm not a programmer nor do I understand how hard it is to do but when I look at warrior skills the foundations are there:
Skyward smash, it mentions 'increased damage during critic als' why not buff this part of the skill to act like the aimed shot of rogues
Chest splitter has feeble, why not adapt it to cancel boss Windups like it used to in earlier seasons.
Axe has an armor rebuff of 10percent why not increase this percentage and add it to wind mill as well
Juggernaut skill and not just taunts but taunts need to have a duration wherein the aggro counter doesn't just reset but stays locked on the tauting warrior for at least 3 seconds to help us keep aggro better, this I say coz as soon as we taunt and a rogue crits it the mobs just refocus to the rogue, effectively we taunt for barely a second as rogues crit constantly.
Rally cry why just buff party why not apply the debuff to mobs as well?

I hope that the matter is seriously looked at by STS because my fear is that STS looks at warrior stats in the monitor and says 'at end game with proper gear, Warriors are fine' this is not seriously the case.

STS hopefully looks at the social dynamics as well, as mentioned previously by other forumers we Warriors slow down the run time of parties thus less efficient, can't maximise elixir thus rogues prefer to party with rogues or mages. It's already a mentality now, get Dps it's faster, what's STS doesn't see on stats is how this affects warrior players by making the player feel inadequate and unwanted making the player lose confidence and determination to build a better warrior but just asks him/herself why not just make a rogue or a mage so that friends won't invite me to a party out of pity.

Thanks for reading and I hope STS does do something as I love the game.

Maarkus

[Maarkus]

Sts,

The warrior character wants to be able to play end game to. The current set up does not allow warriors to be able to play end game. You constantly see need dps or need rouge in guilds. This is why you go in arena and its always tanks waiting. Other warriors and myself find ourselves searching for parties longer than actually playing the game. I understand warriors suppose to take damage in arcane legends but that joke image of what a warrior really is, is back firing. What you have is people not wanting to run with warriors because we don't deal enough damage and it takes to long. My suggestion is to buff warriors in pve not saying pvp but pve. WE WANT TO PLAY TO!

Honestly,
Legend

I hope STS looks into the matter, as the situation is getting worse for warriors in PVE. It's not about stats or getting the OP gear endgame anymore, Warriors just slow down the party.

As mentioned in a different post, modesty aside I have practically maxed or near maxed gear ( as Ravagerx puts it) and as and I am not as efficient as a rogue with medium gear in elite runs. My stats reach 50crit 700dmg and 800dps and yet a medium geared rogue is more efficient.

I have come to terms that increasing damage and Dps is not enough, thus it tried to increase my crit percentage which helped but it's still not enough.

It's really the warrior skills that have to be reviewed as this is where the game fails the Warriors.
I'm not a programmer nor do I understand how hard it is to do but when I look at warrior skills the foundations are there:
Skyward smash, it mentions 'increased damage during critic als' why not buff this part of the skill to act like the aimed shot of rogues
Chest splitter has feeble, why not adapt it to cancel boss Windups like it used to in earlier seasons.
Axe has an armor rebuff of 10percent why not increase this percentage and add it to wind mill as well
Juggernaut skill and not just taunts but taunts need to have a duration wherein the aggro counter doesn't just reset but stays locked on the tauting warrior for at least 3 seconds to help us keep aggro better, this I say coz as soon as we taunt and a rogue crits it the mobs just refocus to the rogue, effectively we taunt for barely a second as rogues crit constantly.
Rally cry why just buff party why not apply the debuff to mobs as well?

I hope that the matter is seriously looked at by STS because my fear is that STS looks at warrior stats in the monitor and says 'at end game with proper gear, Warriors are fine' this is not seriously the case.

STS hopefully looks at the social dynamics as well, as mentioned previously by other forumers we Warriors slow down the run time of parties thus less efficient, can't maximise elixir thus rogues prefer to party with rogues or mages. It's already a mentality now, get Dps it's faster, what's STS doesn't see on stats is how this affects warrior players by making the player feel inadequate and unwanted making the player lose confidence and determination to build a better warrior but just asks him/herself why not just make a rogue or a mage so that friends won't invite me to a party out of pity.

Thanks for reading and I hope STS does do something as I love the game.

Maarkus

[utpal]

Warrior's skill CS was OP in season 1 LOL..
cancellation of boss skill and debuffing crit in elite bael and elite jarl made farming easy.

and party was consisted mainly 2war+ rogue+sorc.
or war+2sorc+rogue.

after season 2, idk y sts buffed boss or nerfed warrior CS coz of that warrior became obsolete as CS no longer does it job other then debuff crit.

and now more obsolete.

[Paulnaj]

This post is so true,

And war skills in pve needs buff and should do what the description says.

Juggernaut should hold aggre for per sec on an 8 sec duration and not just each time you cast an aggre skill.

Alot more changes need to be done for wars in pve, kindly review it.

[william5439]

Totally agreed

[Harteschale]

Totally true. This is what i mean and post in the last weekly update. I hope they do something and change this quick, cause this is a real problem. Warrior is still the unbalanced char. here ... hope we can see it early.

[Xorrior]

It's not about buffing warrior like buffing mage. Warrior skill set is outdated. There was another thread that outlined warrior toon concerns and how inept it is in end game pve. Concerns where not only made by some top endgame warriors but also by others who play as rogues and mages.

[Serancha]

I think a big part of the problem is STS never sticking to their guns, so to speak. They make highly challenging content, and when the dps discover they die in 4-rogue parties, they complain that it's too hard. STS immediately (within a week or two) lowers the difficulty level until the complaints go away. There is no need for anyone to adapt, use other classes, or (heaven forbid) figure out how to play strategically.

Parking should not be an option. Elite difficulty levels, especially in the "most challenging content in the game," should be set where dps teams can not run it. Make us NEED a warrior and we will use them.

The other problem is that when things like this are implemented, people with legendary gear complain that they are too poor and can't hack it. Well, them's the breaks. A lot of warriors worked their butts off for 2 years to get to this point, as did the high-end dps players.

Why should people who have been playing a month be able to run the same level maps as those who have worked for hundreds of hours saving up to get the best gear? If you are undergeared, there are tons of normal maps to play.

[epicrrr]

They did mention a skill overhaul might appear this season or next season.

[BaronB]

I think a big part of the problem is STS never sticking to their guns, so to speak. They make highly challenging content, and when the dps discover they die in 4-rogue parties, they complain that it's too hard. STS immediately (within a week or two) lowers the difficulty level until the complaints go away. There is no need for anyone to adapt, use other classes, or (heaven forbid) figure out how to play strategically.

Parking should not be an option. Elite difficulty levels, especially in the "most challenging content in the game," should be set where dps teams can not run it. Make us NEED a warrior and we will use them.

The other problem is that when things like this are implemented, people with legendary gear complain that they are too poor and can't hack it. Well, them's the breaks. A lot of warriors worked their butts off for 2 years to get to this point, as did the high-end dps players.

Why should people who have been playing a month be able to run the same level maps as those who have worked for hundreds of hours saving up to get the best gear? If you are undergeared, there are tons of normal maps to play.
People with the biggest voices on forums mostly consist of Rogues(no personal digs at people its just the way it is)which is why game has been favouring that class it seems for quite a while.


Good post.

[ueveotadeo]

I wrote a similar thread couple of days ago about that:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?205418-Tindirin-Wilds-Changes

I gotta say Im realy glad to see some of the more experienced players, even from other classes, to share my concern.
And some realy good sugestions were made:

- No parking
- No nerfing coz a 4 rogue party cant finish map
- Skills outdated, some more debuffs needed

I wont say that I have dificult finding pt for tombs or elite, I have some good friends that let me tag along, even though I slow them down (thank you all for that!!!!!!). But would be nice once in a while looking at guild chat and see someone asking for a warrior.

As Maarkus said, this is a mentality that was set and will be hard to break and this leads to other issues: since you dont get pts it might make u question yourself about your skills as a Warr and lead you to make a Rogue, pretty soon making Warriors outdated even more.

Id realy like to see how STS intends to overcome this issue. You guys said that a new Skill system (or redesign) is coming, I dont know it it will sufice but it MIGHT be a start.

Can some dev/mod share with us how you guys intend to do to "fix" this issue? Is this a concern to you guys?

[Svvords]

my decision to quit endgame was probably the best decision i made, i played endgame warrior with every top gear possible that the current cap has to offer. Despite all these high end gears, I still find myself lacking in terms of pve, in that, i always imagined that if it were a rogue in my slot during elite runs, it would be a helluva lot faster.

the plight of this thread is very true, with rogues gettin more powerful with every gear release not only in PVP but in PVE as well, I fear that it will come to a point where the other two classes will be rendered completely irrelevant. gone are the days where you see people in guildchat post messages like "need warr for elite runs", nowadays youll only see people chanting "pt elite, need dps", sad to say, but ive already completely come to terms that being a warr is not the way if you want to play endgame. sts may or may not do something about it, but if they do, salute to all the warriors who are still hopeful to be of any use at endgame in the future, besides being a pimped up meat shield in PVP of course.

[ueveotadeo]

"pt elite, need dps"

When they say that they realy mean "pt elite, need Rogue, but we could accept mages"

[Svvords]

one more thing, the only real solution i see in the current setup is to put a limiter when organizing pts, maybe 1 warr 1 mage 2 rogues as a standard, so that even in timed runs, warriors gets to participate, but then again, thats just me

[Haligali]

notice the date here:

www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?83093-Let-s-talk-Warrior

are you gona complain forever, or switch to a rogue finally.

[BaronB]

notice the date here:

www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?83093-Let-s-talk-Warrior

are you gona complain forever, or switch to a rogue finally.
A switch of a charactor class shouldn't be because you HAVE to switch just to keep up with pve content and get people to invite you to runs.


The switch should be because you want to experience a new perspective of the game by trying out a different class.

[ueveotadeo]

are you gona complain forever, or switch to a rogue finally.

So, why we have 3 options when we create a toon?

Just remove 2 of them already, might as well make mage a pet in the process(all due respect to mages out there :) )....

We are complaining because we enjoying playing with our class and would like to see some improvement on our skill set and utility in endgame pts. Switching to a rogue is the easy way out but it will end up hapening to a lot of people if STS dont work on things like this.


A switch of a charactor class shouldn't be because you HAVE to switch just to keep up with pve content and get people to incite yoy to runs.


The switch should be because you want to experience a new perspective of the game by trying out a different class.

Wise words!

[BaronB]

#mage4life

[Haligali]

A switch of a charactor class shouldn't be because you HAVE to switch just to keep up with pve content and get people to invite you to runs.


The switch should be because you want to experience a new perspective of the game by trying out a different class.

yeh yeh, in an ideal world all classes are equal.

[Maarkus]

notice the date here:

www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?83093-Let-s-talk-Warrior

are you gona complain forever, or switch to a rogue finally.

I think whats disturbing here is not that we may have to play rogues eventually to keep up but the fact that this issue about warriors were evident in the past and is not resolved until now.

The real question is whether STS will do something about it or will it go on for another 4 seasons in debate and sad to say, no matter how much we voice our opinion in the forum without STS support it is all meaningless.

I rarely post, though ive played the game for a long time , simply because i was pessimistic that STS would do something but at the moment i really, sincerely wish that im wrong ans that STS takes notice.

[BaronB]

yeh yeh, in an ideal world all classes are equal.
Its not about each class being equal either. Each class should have their own strengths and weaknesses... thus meaning each class needs to rely on each others strengths as a team.


Not lets have all the same one class in a party and breeze through the map like nothing.

I would also suggest moving away from such ignorant perspective/viewpoint.

[Ardbeg]

the ideal map design should reward mixed class teams which combine their skills efficiently in order to run maps fast.
it s way more fun having a broad range of skills available in a party and working out together the best use and timing of all skills and perks.
if the only satisfying option for endgame pve is for all to build a rogue, *all* classes loose.

the revised skillset should emphasize the original design roles, so no class get s all the good treats alone.

[Pirate Captain]

notice the date here:

www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?83093-Let-s-talk-Warrior

are you gona complain forever, or switch to a rogue finally.

I actually agree with this

[BaronB]

I actually agree with this
I sure hope you dont mean agreeing with just switching class...

[famousfame]

Imo the warrior class is best suited for PvP, if u PvP then you'll have good fun if u don't then gg.

"what goes up will come down"

[Haligali]

I sure hope you dont mean agreeing with just switching class...

I think you misunderstood. We all agree that each class should have their own strengths and weaknesses. But complaining since years
when it does not seem to anything change is plain stupid.

[BaronB]

I think you misunderstood. We all agree that each class should have their own strengths and weaknesses. But complaining since years is plain stupid.
Well seems like when this was brought up in the past maybe not enpugh people voiced there concerns.

Times change and so do people an their views.

If everyone followed the mentality of "oh why bother we tried n failed last year" then slavery wouldnt have been made a thing of the past.


Food for thought.

Imo the warrior class is best suited for PvP, if u PvP then you'll have good fun if u don't then gg.

"what goes up will come down"
Pvp is just a small part of the game tho bud bit harsh to just toss wars into pvp pitt n keep them there.

[famousfame]

Well seems like when this was brought up in the past maybe not enpugh people voiced there concerns.

Times change and so do people an their views.

If everyone followed the mentality of "oh why bother we tried n failed last year" then slavery wouldnt have been made a thing of the past.


Food for thought.

Pvp is just a small part of the game tho bud bit harsh to just toss wars into pvp pitt n keep them there.
Love it :)

"what goes up will come down"

[ueveotadeo]

I think we lose a litle bit the focus of the thread here.

I agree, just complaining wont solve anything, as well as just switching classes wont change a thing!

But if you look closely, we got a lot of nice suggestions from experienced players going on here, we are not only complaining, we are giving our feedback to STS about the current endgame class balance.

STS themselves said they want to build a more close relationship with us and get our feedback to make the game even better.

Well, that is what we are doing here...

[BaronB]

I think we lose a litle bit the focus of the thread here.

I agree, just complaining wont solve anything, as well as just switching classes wont change a thing!

But if you look closely, we got a lot of nice suggestions from experienced players going on here, we are not only complaining, we are giving our feedback to STS about the current endgame class balance.

STS themselves said they want to build a more close relationship with us and get our feedback to make the game even better.

Well, that is what we are doing here...
^+1

[kixkaxx]

Current problem with arena/tomb is the AOE dmg of boss/environment. You will get hit with or without warrior taunting the boss. They should create more pointed dmg(even one shot kills)

[legendarytelly]

I think there are a few different ways this problem can be addressed. You could change the content on every elite map to make it need warriors but that may be to expensive. You could improve warrior skills so we become a asset for the team. Or you could give warriors the option on being able to do damage like most rpg. Just my opinion on options.

[Serancha]

I gotta say Im realy glad to see some of the more experienced players, even from other classes

I will point out for the record, that although I am known as a rogue, I have played end-game warrior since season 1 also. Unfortunately, my fatty doesn't get much exercise these days, since rogues are just plain faster, so he's stuck in the locker room eating donuts.

#fairness4fatties

[ueveotadeo]

I will point out for the record, that although I am known as a rogue, I have played end-game warrior since season 1 also. Unfortunately, my fatty doesn't get much exercise these days, since rogues are just plain faster, so he's stuck in the locker room eating donuts.

#fairness4fatties

Some eat donuts, others skip leg day, we fatties have lots of reasons for being slow :)

[BaronB]

Some eat donuts, others skip leg day, we fatties have lots of reasons for being slow :)
At least you aint got to worry about looking over the table in gh

[Remiem]

Hey guys. I really appreciate all of the feedback on this. I think there needs to be adjustments to every class at end game, and they all deserve another look at how they work with the other classes so everyone is useful in PvE and PvP.

We'll be taking a deep dive into that this year along with the skill system.

[ueveotadeo]

Hey guys. I really appreciate all of the feedback on this. I think there needs to be adjustments to every class at end game, and they all deserve another look and how they work with the other classes so everyone is useful in PvE and PvP.

We'll be taking a deep dive into that this year along with the skill system.

Nice to know Remiem!

Would be perfect to see some improvements with the new lvl cap though :)

I had mentioned in a similar thread that skill system plays a huge role on our utility, but also the changes coming to mob placement, leash and density have the same if not more impact on what classes are needed on a run.

[Remiem]

Nice to know Remiem!

Would be perfect to see some improvements with the new lvl cap though :)

I had mentioned in a similar thread that skill system plays a huge role on our utility, but also the changes coming to mob placement, leash and density have the same if not more impact on what classes are needed on a run.

Ah yeah, I've gotcha! Tanks aren't really useful if there's nothing to tank. Am I right? I'll get that in front of the devs too. I think this is something we're looking at specifically as we go through and optimize the maps for bandwidth too.

[Pirate Captain]

I sure hope you dont mean agreeing with just switching class...
If you want to farm pve effectively then switching classes is your best option right now. Even if sts wanted to help warriors and give them new or improved skills it would take months whereas you can lvl up to 41 on a weekend. Just look at how long it took them to "fix" breeze and he's just a pet.

[Jirikjurasek]

Ah yeah, I've gotcha! Tanks aren't really useful if there's nothing to tank. Am I right? I'll get that in front of the devs too. I think this is something we're looking at specifically as we go through and optimize the maps for bandwidth too.

Do you think about deep skill tree system? Warr could be tank with hight survivability when spend lots of skill points deep in survival branch of tree and high dmg with low survivability when spend lots of skill points deep in dmg branch of tree

[Maarkus]

Ah yeah, I've gotcha! Tanks aren't really useful if there's nothing to tank. Am I right? I'll get that in front of the devs too. I think this is something we're looking at specifically as we go through and optimize the maps for bandwidth too.

Hi Remiem,
Good evening.
I understand you guys have a lot on your plate but please look at the warrior skills as well.

When planar tombs was first released and the difficulty was harsh there was a lot to tank but we werent usefull then as a full rogue party suffered similar or a little more casualties but ran the planar tomb maps faster. I belive you were even withess to a group of rogues that finished T1 in under 5 or 6 mins. This clearly shows the dominance of the rogue which i have nothing against and infact favor as i hate long runs but the side effect is that it has become so obvious that at endgame with skilled rogues (note they were not even full geared) there is really no need for a warrior in the party.

Why i request for such an inquery into the warrior class is not related to attaining an optimal class but is subject to the currnet social gaming dilema of warrior class players that dont want to change class and this segment of the population is starting to feel inadequate and unnecessary in a game that they love.

The earlier post in this thread that cited an issue such as this existed previosuly and was not addressed after 20levels be a reminder that some people have seen apathy from STS into this concern and have given up hope thus i sincerely request and hope that they be give an opportunity to see that STS can be responsible, reliable and can take immediate action into their concerns.

Thanks for reading

[Haligali]

If you want to farm pve effectively then switching classes is your best option right now. Even if sts wanted to help warriors and give them new or improved skills it would take months whereas you can lvl up to 41 on a weekend. Just look at how long it took them to fix breeze and he's just a pet.

Is breeze fixed? What's the point having a mage in a pve party, when a pet can freeze all the mobs what a mage can't?

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

[Pirate Captain]

Is breeze fixed? What's the point having a mage in a pve party, when a pet can freeze all the mobs what a mage can't?

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

Edited lmao

[vawaid]

Im pretty lucky having a team for running elite, but so sad reading the guildchat. You know what I mean.

[wvhills]

the problem isn't the skill or the classes themselves. The problem is the OP gear. Everything would work great if the gear were nerfed. STS felt the need to keep making higher damage gear and gems to get people to spend plats. The after effects is dps classes don't need tanks and rogues don't need mages or tanks. Changing the mob difficulty would further isolate people who want to play elite but haven't spent the money to get the best gear.

[ueveotadeo]

Maybe they could scale mob dificulty according to the average dmg output and HP of the PT....

[Serancha]

Ah yeah, I've gotcha! Tanks aren't really useful if there's nothing to tank. Am I right? I'll get that in front of the devs too. I think this is something we're looking at specifically as we go through and optimize the maps for bandwidth too.

Precisely. You're making them defensive weapons and givig them 3k armour ability, but there is nothing in the game that can not be killed by a team of rogues, and killed 10x faster. There is no content difficult enough to warrant a "tank" because you keep turning down the level, so we would rather just use a party of rogues and farm faster.

[wvhills]

hey! i thought u quit! :)

I don't think it's the content difficulty. It's the gear. Before the new mythic bow and it's 70+ more damage both tanks and mages were needed. This is the time period I stopped playing. My damage was around 370 at the time. I think with the new gear and gems some rogues are pushing close to 800 now aren't they? No wonder u don't need tanks!

[Serancha]

hey! i thought u quit! :)

I don't think it's the content difficulty. It's the gear. Before the new mythic bow and it's 70+ more damage both tanks and mages were needed. This is the time period I stopped playing. My damage was around 370 at the time. I think with the new gear and gems some rogues are pushing close to 800 now aren't they? No wonder u don't need tanks!

We've been running without warriors consistently since season 4. It's not a new problem, it is just more noticeable the longer it goes on.

[Excuses]

This is exactly why I quit my end game warrior. Nothing to do with because no one really needs a warrior in party.
I really hope CS cancel and AT pull to work in pve.

Tank's high armor seems make the boss harder too.
This should be fixed too.

[Kakashis]

Yeah, tanks scale the armor to be higher at a boss, and most tanks do slow down a run to the point it costs you anks like in arena with the enrage thing. They're just not dealing enough damage. I always said, nothing should be able to walk away from a heavy crit skyward smash of a warrior, but as it is, it does barely nothing.

Rogues are expensive to play, but the damage they deal is second to none. Defensive or full offensive warriors make little to no difference, it's always the rogue.

[lethaljade]

Doesn't matter how much u buff warrior, even if it does double the damage in pve then what it does now , id rather run with rouges , warriors still womt be able to match a rouge with anks around who needs a warrior for survivability, now that's the real problem, ank kits.

And @remiem you can have new maps deal 10k damage we still won't need tanks, we are all too dependant on anks and elixers. With them around us rouges really don't need any help, only reason I ever run with tanks is to help them get in a party because they really are not much benefit to any party in pve, no offence tanks lol!.

[Kriticality]

I agree with tombs and other high level elites. It is hard to imagine why a party of rogues wouldn't be best in arena though without undermining what rogues do. IE deal high damage to a single target. If you make it super difficult for ring pendant maridos rogues, a lot tanks wouldn't survive easily either. My armor as a rogue borders some tanks armor. Dynamically it would have to change. Unless damage is buffed higher than rogues crit, then damage def isn't the answer. I'm curious about this. I'll have to spend some time thinking. Btw, I'll run arena with a tank. I like it. I run with globolus fairly often. Hit me up in game. Ign Kriticality. If I'm free, we can run it. :)

[Ravager]

Doesn't matter how much u buff warrior, even if it does double the damage in pve then what it does now , id rather run with rouges , warriors still womt be able to match a rouge with anks around who needs a warrior for survivability, now that's the real problem, ank kits.

And @remiem you can have new maps deal 10k damage we still won't need tanks, we are all too dependant on anks and elixers. With them around us rouges really don't need any help, only reason I ever run with tanks is to help them get in a party because they really are not much benefit to any party in pve, no offence tanks lol!.

With this, do we toss the idea of adding ankhs and pots to arena chests?

[As5055565]

Agrred warrior got it tough

[Twix]

Maybe youre just out of luck. Theres plenty of warriors being demanded for arena, tomb, and other elite runs. However, its those who know how to tank very well.

[Bellaelda]

Maybe youre just out of luck. Theres plenty of warriors being demanded for arena, tomb, and other elite runs. However, its those who know how to tank very well.

Dunno where you hearing that demand... I haven't seen anybody ask for a tank in probably a year... unless it was for pvp.

I think maybe your hearing voices, lol

:-D

[Madnex]

Hey guys. I really appreciate all of the feedback on this. I think there needs to be adjustments to every class at end game, and they all deserve another look at how they work with the other classes so everyone is useful in PvE and PvP.

We'll be taking a deep dive into that this year along with the skill system.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?138080-Me-You-amp-Cross-Class-Combos

^^
Maybe it's finally time! ;)

[lethaljade]

With this, do we toss the idea of adding ankhs and pots to arena chests?

Well that makes no odds either way people will remain to buy/depend on theese ank kits

[Ravager]

Well that makes no odds either way people will remain to buy/depend on theese ank kits

I was thinking people probably consume a bit more pots and ankhs when running without a warrior. But in some cases maybe not.

[Serancha]

This is exactly why I quit my end game warrior. Nothing to do with because no one really needs a warrior in party.
I really hope CS cancel and AT pull to work in pve.

Tank's high armor seems make the boss harder too.
This should be fixed too.


Yeah, tanks scale the armor to be higher at a boss, and most tanks do slow down a run to the point it costs you anks like in arena with the enrage thing. They're just not dealing enough damage. I always said, nothing should be able to walk away from a heavy crit skyward smash of a warrior, but as it is, it does barely nothing.

Rogues are expensive to play, but the damage they deal is second to none. Defensive or full offensive warriors make little to no difference, it's always the rogue.

This is something that has been discussed and researched for the last year. Since we can't accurately test hp and armour of mobs and bosses, there is no hard data that can be obtained by players in this regard. However, it is agreed by almost all senior players, especially those from season 1 and 2, that mobs and bosses are much harder to kill with a fully geared warrior in the room. We ran some tests with a fully geared warrior vs a naked warrior, and there was no doubt remaining at the end that it took significantly longer to kill a boss with the fully geared warrior.

STS's official statement is that scaling is only based on number of people present and the level of those people. Until they realize we're not fabricating this phenomenon and take a long, hard look at the code, there is no chance of this bug being found and squashed.

When 80% of the players agree that things are more difficult with a warrior, it's not just someone trying to make waves. If anyone actually looked at the parties running elite, and compared the number of parties using warrior against those that are dps only, and that should be a clue.

[carel86]

Sts,

The warrior character wants to be able to play end game to. The current set up does not allow warriors to be able to play end game. You constantly see need dps or need rouge in guilds. This is why you go in arena and its always tanks waiting. Other warriors and myself find ourselves searching for parties longer than actually playing the game. I understand warriors suppose to take damage in arcane legends but that joke image of what a warrior really is, is back firing. What you have is people not wanting to run with warriors because we don't deal enough damage and it takes to long. My suggestion is to buff warriors in pve not saying pvp but pve. WE WANT TO PLAY TO!

Honestly,
Legend

very agreeeeeee with you bro. STS please grant our wish the warrior of Arcane Legends, we need more damage

[Jirikjurasek]

This is something that has been discussed and researched for the last year. Since we can't accurately test hp and armour of mobs and bosses, there is no hard data that can be obtained by players in this regard. However, it is agreed by almost all senior players, especially those from season 1 and 2, that mobs and bosses are much harder to kill with a fully geared warrior in the room. We ran some tests with a fully geared warrior vs a naked warrior, and there was no doubt remaining at the end that it took significantly longer to kill a boss with the fully geared warrior.

STS's official statement is that scaling is only based on number of people present and the level of those people. Until they realize we're not fabricating this phenomenon and take a long, hard look at the code, there is no chance of this bug being found and squashed.

When 80% of the players agree that things are more difficult with a warrior, it's not just someone trying to make waves. If anyone actually looked at the parties running elite, and compared the number of parties using warrior against those that are dps only, and that should be a clue.

There were some hard datas where warrior with and without armor try mobs HP.
But honestly difference of 200 WARRIORs dmg makes NOTHING in elite with rogues and mages in party

[Jakubson]

Im endgame warrior. And i want post something here too.
Now with imbued rogs can reach 1.8k armor and with dodge they throw warriors out. They can tank easily and also with their dmg run lot of faster.(same pty with 3rogs 1 tank is slower in arena than 3rogs in trio). Also warrior in pty scale mobs n bosses higher than other classes. So when warriors scaling enemies higher, with our low dmg cant do any dmg. And rogues can easily hold agrro theres no way how to profit with tank in party. Its sad and im not glad that i opened sam on mine tank (I should build rogue up). also u said that u will fix all this year.....so u want all tanks leave this game n w8 half year to fix this? Maybe it will fix easy update whitch will add to every tank in elite +50% damage (or maybe more because with mine 700dmg i do nothing there...). Or turn off high tank scaling....

Its so simple....bring warriors back to game!

[gumball3000]

Of course warriors slow down the runs, especially when 2 of his skills eg: jug and heal don't help his dmg at all.

Rogues manage just fine without a warrior in pt without any heal skills. Why should warrior use heal?

I recommend this build for warriors who can tap potions fast: ss, cs, wind, venge for mobs and swap wind for cs at boss.
This will give you alot of damage and a little bit of taunt.

[ueveotadeo]

I recommend this build for warriors who can tap potions fast: ss, cs, wind, venge for mobs and swap wind for cs at boss.
This will give you alot of damage and a little bit of taunt.

U will be hitting more but I dont think it will make a huge difference. Maybe mobs will be killed faster but at boss it wont make a huge difference.

For mob control we already have mages, Im not here to do their job. As GoodSyntax pointed out, warrior skills should be refactored so we see an improvement on boss fights. 10% armor reduction on Axe Throw is just too low, it should be at least double,CS should have a high chance to stop boss attacks, Rally Cry should debuff and have a wider range and Jugg should retain aggro for some time...those are just some suggestions made by other players that I think would realy boost our need on runs....

[Serancha]

Of course warriors slow down the runs, especially when 2 of his skills eg: jug and heal don't help his dmg at all.

Rogues manage just fine without a warrior in pt without any heal skills. Why should warrior use heal?

I recommend this build for warriors who can tap potions fast: ss, cs, wind, venge for mobs and swap wind for cs at boss.
This will give you alot of damage and a little bit of taunt.

We tested with a fully geared warrior, with and without gear on. The runs were faster with him naked. In fact, he put on lesser and lesser quality gear and the runs got easier and easier. The skills are not the issue, the scaling is.

I don't know why anyone would use Jugg in PvE anyways. But that's another discussion that's prone to explode whenever it comes up. I have actually used a no-heal build that is similar to what you are describing. My dps didn't miss the heal at all.

[Jazzi]

I was referred to this thread by friends. I gotta say they were right: laughed a lot while I was reading. This on a side note.

On the topic of people not needing tanks. Well might be right with Max gear. Not true in legendary, semi-myth parties. So before making any more lol suggestion and deem them "pro", please do think about the gear gap. Maybe it is normal that a maxed tank can't get a maxed DPS party, when a maxed rogue/mage practically has DOUBLE the stats of one with the best legendary gear ( not talking about damage only, but also about health, mana, crit...). And no best legendary gear is NOT 10 mil per piece imbued gear.

Then u say make content challenging, but it already is for most people. Do u think that it is coincidence than one meets the same 50-100 people in the planar tombs hub?

That being said, I do agree that tanks need some tweaking, but the main problem as of now is how strong the two DPS classes become with Max and at same time the impossibility to make content viable for Max gear only for very obvious reason.

[famousfame]

Of course warriors slow down the runs, especially when 2 of his skills eg: jug and heal don't help his dmg at all.

Rogues manage just fine without a warrior in pt without any heal skills. Why should warrior use heal?

I recommend this build for warriors who can tap potions fast: ss, cs, wind, venge for mobs and swap wind for cs at boss.
This will give you alot of damage and a little bit of taunt.
No way war should be using jugg in pve.

"what goes up will come down"

[Dex Scene]

I love running with warrior. Maybe because I don't rush. But I can see how people don't want warriors as most of people are addicted to pace. Can't blame them as Time is money.
If I don't run with a warrior, its only when he dsn't have ankhs, doesn't listen to Dos and Don'ts or don't have taunts.
But still I do see lots of my warrior guildies/friends have to sit out in towns. Its sad. Not to mention I have not played my warrior for a decade.

Warrior can't be dps damage class cuz every class has their roles.
Maybe to make warriors wanted in pts, they can adopt new skills such debuffing mobs bosses, boosting parties by huge, boosting crits and most importantly Make taunts more effective so it is very well noticeable and game changer.
also fix the mobs' scaling with warriors HP ARMORS…

[illwilly]

I prefere one tank in party, but most random tanks seems to have no aggro skills and like kiting bosses or run from boss or what it is they doing.. so if any on friends list on, they get first pick. (Have few tank friends, most choose tank since they live longest and its easy in pvp, they not that conserned about the tanking part, if u played with me and kept aggro, ive sent friend request or accepted youres).

That beeing said, tank was my first toon, was so tired of beeing left alone on random maps and not able to kill a thing alone that i paused it at 27 i think it was(allways had min 3 aggro skills, mosty 4). Then capped a rogue then this mage and later more mages.. Have capped the warrior at 41 and not even done all elite aps, but used him on some events. Getting abit sidetracked now, but point is, this is no new issue, tank has allways been TANK, and if tank messed up dps died and tank lived on until u could run back. Now with free flow of ankhs i can imagine how hard just leveling a tank would be. And the hard core farmers that imo. cant really have any fun in game, just see it as work.. they skip bringing a tank for saving 1 or 2min on a map, makes me giggle..
If boss or mobs scaled to pt hp or armor or gear, it strange some maps run better with 2 tanks (i die less, mightvtake 2-4min longer to do the map, but i dont care). And im mage wich used tarlok wisdom gems since first tarlok event, have 200str atm and still get one shot in arena if tank choose me as the spot to be or spider pull me into proximity curse or the like..

Sidenote. Theres been timed elites on lb with 2x tanks. Paragemmed ofc, and pushed off again by the guys that want all the seasons timed lb..

And before some think this is a nerf tank thread, ur wronng, id like to play my tank again. I would like to see all tanks aggro on all skills, not need to take this and that skillupgrade to do their job, would be lots more to play with.. just my 97 cent. Sorry for long post and my main language not english, neighter is it my 2nd or 3rd.. so long post probably hard to read, bad for u lol..

Illwilly: proud to be mage even though we just pets in many peoples view..

[Bmwmsix]

Just take a look at world of warcraft and you can get some nice idea how successful warrior is there. Tank or Damagedealer. Our aggro skills need to be overlooked. And we need more debuff like armor reduce and hit reduce.

[JohnnyHardcore]

Agreed all of the above. This is a great game but there are some serious class imbalances. Only been playing to lvl 26 war and 20 mage so far and the differences are staggering.

[Overweightank]

Warriors are Very useless now, Only thing we're Really needed for is non-maxed Pt runs :/

[Newcomx]

IMO... not damage to be upgraded, but taunting skills which can makes Rogue or Sorc clear mobs more efficiently.... faster and less death.

[Pandaxxo]

Dunno where you hearing that demand... I haven't seen anybody ask for a tank in probably a year... unless it was for pvp.

I think maybe your hearing voices, lol

:-D

LOL, true. I'm a mage myself. But I tbh, I haven't heard anyone calling for war/tanks for quite a while now for Planar Tombs or Arena. I only hear "Need DPS PT," "Need rogues," "Fast PT," and etc. :livid:

And a lot of my war friends haven't been playing much and some quit 'cause they said they can't find people and play in arena/tombs.

#BringBackWarriors :chuncky: #fairness4fatties lol

[BaronB]

117278

If Sts would implement Mounting then we could open so many new doors to warriors.

[Overweightank]

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?206190-My-Idea-for-the-new-expansion-please-read!-D

This might clear some confusion, Btw yes I just was informed that an "Egyptian theme" is already in P.L , I did not know this untill now, but it's still original mobs and boss idea's :)

[Svvords]

117278

If Sts would implement Mounting then we could open so many new doors to warriors.

lmao this made my day

[Amvulpix]

117278

If Sts would implement Mounting then we could open so many new doors to warriors.

lol bad does really meet evil XD . Man if the owner were to see this tho , I'm so crying atm LOL. That's one of the proest mounting I ever saw.

[Serancha]

Sidenote. Theres been timed elites on lb with 2x tanks. Paragemmed ofc, and pushed off again by the guys that want all the seasons timed lb..


What map did 2 tanks get a time on lb for? Paragems only came out at halloween, and as far as I know, all the times recorded this season have been rogue or rogue/mage parties.

[bruceboster]

Cs feeble really working in old season. After nord expansion released, feeble not working anymore. Only working in old maps ( brackenridge-dead city).
Windmill in old season really OP too. But to many player complain and detected as bug. As the result, windmill has been changed to be worst skills.
Feeble fake in axe throw need change. Its never feeble. Axe throw should Can be pull boss too. Or giving 250% dmg on critical might be good.
Agreed with this thread. Warrior need buff too.

[Powergear546]

Imo there are few POINTS which i want to point out for chars:

1] Rogues and mages have dps(mages) and crit (rogues) reaching very high like 900dps and 800 damage for legendary to mythic gear,then why dont we get 900 strength,it should boost tank's ability upto where they can atleast take 16 hits from elite bosses.

2]why mages have guns lol they have elemental power and energies to shoot out like use energy ball and sceptre to shoot out,warriors need guns because whenever tanks get closer to boss,most of them stuns us and they are useless for some time or just make them unstunnable.

3]make a skill set which makes us move faster,most of the time my friend from karma uses speed elixir to clear the maps faster and for elite bosses,this is because he cant move fast to avoid charged attack.MAKE US MOVE FASTER LOL

[Archerios]

117278

If Sts would implement Mounting then we could open so many new doors to warriors.

I choked when I saw this :highly_amused:

[Avaree]

What map did 2 tanks get a time on lb for? Paragems only came out at halloween, and as far as I know, all the times recorded this season have been rogue or rogue/mage parties.


Check SS on shadow plains :) was a very fun run :) Just in case the names are not familiar, Ardbeg & Calicus are the tanks in party, & two rogues.

117289

[Haligali]

Check SS on shadow plains :) was a very fun run :) Just in case the names are not familiar, Ardbeg & Calicus are the tanks in party, & two rogues.

117289

Lol, our pre-halloween contest time is still on forest of shade lb. My mage got +150 dmg since then.

[Castellann]

It is a very good idea to get PVE buff for warriors, bc for them hard to get pt, and like a rogue i get a party very quickly unlike poor warriors. also it will be good for warriors who hasn't good gear. Hope stg will buff our usehul warriors a bit moooore useful ^^

[Overweightank]

i think a big part of the problem is sts never sticking to their guns, so to speak. They make highly challenging content, and when the dps discover they die in 4-rogue parties, they complain that it's too hard. Sts immediately (within a week or two) lowers the difficulty level until the complaints go away. There is no need for anyone to adapt, use other classes, or (heaven forbid) figure out how to play strategically.

Parking should not be an option. Elite difficulty levels, especially in the "most challenging content in the game," should be set where dps teams can not run it. Make us need a warrior and we will use them.

The other problem is that when things like this are implemented, people with legendary gear complain that they are too poor and can't hack it. Well, them's the breaks. A lot of warriors worked their butts off for 2 years to get to this point, as did the high-end dps players.

Why should people who have been playing a month be able to run the same level maps as those who have worked for hundreds of hours saving up to get the best gear? If you are undergeared, there are tons of normal maps to play.

preach! :d

[Jinklin]

Im think about give new items for Warrior.
Because now, i have 41 LVL And my Damage is : 450
If Warrior no have Team he can only do NOTHING.

[Samaeldavisjr]

Imo the warrior class is best suited for PvP, if u PvP then you'll have good fun if u don't then gg.

"what goes up will come down"

Exactly why my warrior build is catered around dmg and dps. Basically a WarRogue. Very very fun :)

[Bmwmsix]

Wait dear fellow warriors....muhahhahaahhahhha evilish idea.

Lets all warriors boycot any parties. Just build parties with warriors only.

Especially on pvp then its no more arcane legends. Then its Wariors legends muhahahhaha.


Seriously if we all start doing pvp only with warriors in pt the uproar wd be huge....then I think sts will have to act prompt or Mages and Rogues gna ragequit...:peach:


Ps: We could unite all warriors on al server and reign pvp at least XD

[BaronB]

Wait dear fellow warriors....muhahhahaahhahhha evilish idea.

Lets all warriors boycot any parties. Just build parties with warriors only.

Especially on pvp then its no more arcane legends. Then its Wariors legends muhahahhaha.


Seriously if we all start doing pvp only with warriors in pt the uproar wd be huge....then I think sts will have to act prompt or Mages and Rogues gna ragequit...[emoji14]each:


Ps: We could unite all warriors on al server and reign pvp at least XD
A collective of warriors is known as a herd. A herd can be tamed and mounted for ridage around Arlor.

[Bmwmsix]

A collective of warriors is known as a herd. A herd can be tamed and mounted for ridage around Arlor.



Wahahhaha baron you rock elduderino!!!! :smiley_simmons:

[Bluesparky]

I wrote a similar thread couple of days ago about that:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?205418-Tindirin-Wilds-Changes

I gotta say Im realy glad to see some of the more experienced players, even from other classes, to share my concern.
And some realy good sugestions were made:

- No parking
- No nerfing coz a 4 rogue party cant finish map
- Skills outdated, some more debuffs needed

I wont say that I have dificult finding pt for tombs or elite, I have some good friends that let me tag along, even though I slow them down (thank you all for that!!!!!!). But would be nice once in a while looking at guild chat and see someone asking for a warrior.

As Maarkus said, this is a mentality that was set and will be hard to break and this leads to other issues: since you dont get pts it might make u question yourself about your skills as a Warr and lead you to make a Rogue, pretty soon making Warriors outdated even more.

Id realy like to see how STS intends to overcome this issue. You guys said that a new Skill system (or redesign) is coming, I dont know it it will sufice but it MIGHT be a start.

Can some dev/mod share with us how you guys intend to do to "fix" this issue? Is this a concern to you guys?

heya Skipple nice post bro on tindrin maps.. I see many full geared warriors standing around tombs saying "inv PT"..Lmao no one listens unless u r fame/reputed warrior .. Even i experience same.. When i stand on my warrior toon or mage toon none invites. But when im on normal geared rogue i get invites.. To reach OP warrior gear it took around 2years for many warriors out there at end game. I hope sts should look for toon balance in parties to..

"I hate the word --Need DPS-----".

[Bmwmsix]

I think I dont want to play anymore if if I cant see soon very soon any updates according Warrior pve role...:tan:

[ueveotadeo]

A collective of warriors is known as a herd. A herd can be tamed and mounted for ridage around Arlor.

Hahahahahahhaa

If "mount system" is implemented, I want Ursoth as a pet for my warr! And it should be warr exclusive pet, mages and rogues are small, cant climb! xD

[Xorrior]

Warriors trying to get a party in Rogue Legends :)

117341

[BaronB]

Wow..

Might as well get band aid come do a song for all these helpless warriors >.>

Come people lets do our bit for chairty and adopt a warrior for your party run today ^.^

#enddiscriminationagaisntwarriors

[nicflamel]

I totally agree to this one.

As a Mage/Rogue, I would actually rather run the arena and the tombs with other mages/rogues since it's faster. One tank in PT is Okay. It's actually nice having someone to take the blows for the group, but I would still prefer running with a full DPS party just coz it's faster.

:(

[kaabacir]

I feel same way i hope they change warrior way i have been here for 2 year and i aint happy :(

[Spazzi]

At least you aint got to worry about looking over the table in gh
Haha excellent stuff B

[nevercan]

Hahahahahahhaa

If "mount system" is implemented, I want Ursoth as a pet for my warr! And it should be warr exclusive pet, mages and rogues are small, cant climb! xD
You forgot that mages got magic they can blow themself in the sky higher then an warior can climb

[vawaid]

Im levelling my mage up, just bored being useless warrior.

sent by a nab using tapasucks

[Zaizor]

The other problem is that when things like this are implemented, people with legendary gear complain that they are too poor and can't hack it. Well, them's the breaks. A lot of warriors worked their butts off for 2 years to get to this point, as did the high-end dps players.

Why should people who have been playing a month be able to run the same level maps as those who have worked for hundreds of hours saving up to get the best gear? If you are undergeared, there are tons of normal maps to play.

You and I just became best friends. I spent 2+ years grinding, farming, scraping together gold to get top gear, top pets, and a mythic weapon, and now I find my warrior almost obsolete, because 2 rogues or 2 mages can throw so much damage out there that the enemies are dead before I can get a swing in. I'd like to see some sort of buff or bump, I worked hard and it's not really paying off as an end pve gamer.

Maybe bump vengeful blood to have a huge damage and critical output, so it gives us a temporary damage burst to take down some mobs. I don't know, just spitballing here.

[Maarkus]

Hey guys. I really appreciate all of the feedback on this. I think there needs to be adjustments to every class at end game, and they all deserve another look at how they work with the other classes so everyone is useful in PvE and PvP.

We'll be taking a deep dive into that this year along with the skill system.

Just making sure the topic doesnt fade away and hoping that some news from devs, hopefully not vague, will be released soon.

[utpal]

Yo. warriors. wassup

[utpal]

warrior skill should be buffed up. boss already 2hits with normal dps so doing feeble doesn't make any sense. i think it should also reduce dmg.

although I hav 6.6k hp and 2.4k armour, it doesn't make any sense in T2. I still need to use Like 5-10 ankhs

hp and armour should be 7.5k and 3k as avg respectively. then would be good. as war dnt do much dmg.
avg rogues and mages hav way dps and dmg then avg warriors. it's ok. they can kill easily I.e. offensive it's ok. their job is satisfactory.
but
y warriors can't survive easily (defensive) the way DPSer kills easily. they die like DPSer. warrior 6k hp and DPSer 3k hp makes no difference.

either enhance warrior skill so to be truly called as "warriors" or buff warrior stats. or change the map difficulty mechanics (whic is currently higher armour/hp, more difficulty)

[utpal]

warrior skill should be buffed up. boss already 2hits with normal dps so doing feeble doesn't make any sense. i think it should also reduce dmg.

although I hav 6.6k hp and 2.4k armour, it doesn't make any sense in T2. I still need to use Like 5-10 ankhs

hp and armour should be 7.5k and 3k as avg respectively. then would be good. as war dnt do much dmg.
avg rogues and mages hav way dps and dmg then avg warriors. it's ok. they can kill easily I.e. offensive it's ok. their job is satisfactory.
but
y warriors can't survive easily (defensive) the way DPSer kills easily. they die like DPSer. warrior 6k hp and DPSer 3k hp makes no difference.

either enhance warrior skill so to be truly called as "warriors" or buff warrior stats. or change the map difficulty mechanics (whic is currently higher armour/hp, more difficulty)

[Nat King Aggrey]

Even on this event peoples wont pt me cause am a warrior arf..

Dwellz

[Xorrior]

Making us a buff/debuff class and give us way more health and armour. Not just dribs and drabs here and there.

I had to change my skill set to be involved in gameplay, now it's changed to buffing allies, making them stronger to takedown enemies faster. My new skill set and my pets reflect the sadly forceful change. But still the buffs in the warrior skill set is limited. These warrior skills are very outdated.

Dear Devs, perhaps in the future don't give rogues so much armour. You Devs are turning end game rogues into tanks. I've seen a few clips of you devs playing AL to test a few things and most of you guys play rogues, perhaps this is why rogues rule things. You may have a bias to one class, the class that most of you guys play.

A fair few tanks I know play rogue now. I've been contemplating that move myself lately. Only thing is I hate playing rogue. I look forward to the new expansion and the changes addressed if any. If the warrior game mechanics stay the same, I'll try rogue, if I hate it, I'll try another game.

Thank you Xorrior, mighty Worrior, who can't spellorrior!

[Madnex]

The problem is that any map can be tackled without really needing a warrior. An experienced mage with ice and time shift or even just one breeze pet that can replace the mage is enough for any kind of mobs. And even on the hardest bosses, there are no attacks that some kiting strategy and/or some stun pets can't outbalance without lowering the overall party damage by including a warrior in it.

Perhaps give the warrior skills chances at stunning bosses or canceling their red zones and change their damage/critical rate buffs to affect the whole party. We don't need new skills or debuffs, we can work with what we have.

Examples:
-VB's damage, HP increase and critical rate buffs are applied to all party members in proximity.
-Axe Throw and Skyward Smash have a chance of a new type of stun on bosses with its own immunity.
-Chest Splitter can now cancel all red zones windups.
-Taunt in skills is absolute (for the duration of the skill, the boss will not even as much as turn to face any other attacker, even if the warrior went half a screen away and set down a picnic table).

[Excuses]

Examples:
-VB's damage, HP increase and critical rate buffs are applied to all party members in proximity.
-Axe Throw and Skyward Smash have a chance of a new type of stun on bosses with its own immunity.
-Chest Splitter can now cancel all red zones windups.
-Taunt in skills is absolute (for the duration of the skill, the boss will not even as much as turn to face any other attacker, even if the warrior went half a screen away and set down a picnic table).

I like these examples.

I just started to play back my end game warrior because of my wife. (maybe have to quit playing twink and pvp too) And I still found some issues on tanks in pve.
Rogues don't really 'need' tank. Tank makes it little comfortable, let them use fewer ankhs only.

If tank can buff pt's dmg, it's gonna be whole different story.
And it's taunt is weak. Especially cs doesn't taunt more than 0.5 sec. And skill cancel and feeble should be back so tanks can be more useful in pve.
I use 3 taunt skills but still feels hard to keep aggro from 1 rogue's dmg.

Hope dev take a look at these examples.

--
One thing I want to add is that vg is not a taunt skill so if the pt buff is on jugg or vg gets taunt, it would be perfect. XD

[Serancha]

even if the warrior went half a screen away and set down a picnic table

If fatties brought picnics to hunts, they might get an invitation once in a while..... ;)

[nevercan]

Im levelling my mage up, just bored being useless warrior.

sent by a nab using tapasucks
Better you lvl a rouge mages arnt that much more helpful then tanks only if you have maxed out gear.

[AsHwín MP]

Yep. Warriors should deal more damage and be fast. Pls do an update on that

[GoodSyntax]

The source of the issue is why Tanks aren't really welcomed in party. It all comes down to the fact that Warriors don't save much in the way of ankh (which is the real currency for elite, since pots are just the cost of doing business) because many mobs and bosses one-hit, tank or no tank, yet their presence slow down runs tremendously.

The solution in my mind is to have Warriors deal massive debuffs on armor, hit %, damage, etc. AND strong party buffs. If a Warrior can debuff mobs and bosses enough that there is no appreciable difference in overall run times, AND their presence can save you some pots/ankh, then the entire dynamic of tanking changes. If I can save some pots and ankh but still farm at the same rate, then my preference would be to have a tank. But, when I'm paying 30-40k or 12 plat for DMG, DMG Reduction and Reroll kits every 30 minutes, the Warrior penalty means I get in one or two fewer runs than with a full DPS party, so the cost per run increases by as much as 40%!

Here is an idea on skill upgrades:
VB: Extend buff to entire party
RC: Double the buff time
WM: Extend attack range, mobs/bosses hit get a -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
SS: 50% Damage reduction to affected mobs/boss for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
HoR: Panic mobs in range
AT: -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds
CS: 100% interruption of windup on bosses! 100% stun!
Jug: Damage taken while skill is active is also reflected back on the attacking mob/boss


Obviously, these added effects would only apply to PvE, but if these were added, why wouldn't DPS players want to run with tanks?

[Chuuk]

I would really love s buff for warriors so that I can finally not get kicked out a party for having "low damage"

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T

[Bmwmsix]

The source of the issue is why Tanks aren't really welcomed in party. It all comes down to the fact that Warriors don't save much in the way of ankh (which is the real currency for elite, since pots are just the cost of doing business) because many mobs and bosses one-hit, tank or no tank, yet their presence slow down runs tremendously.

The solution in my mind is to have Warriors deal massive debuffs on armor, hit %, damage, etc. AND strong party buffs. If a Warrior can debuff mobs and bosses enough that there is no appreciable difference in overall run times, AND their presence can save you some pots/ankh, then the entire dynamic of tanking changes. If I can save some pots and ankh but still farm at the same rate, then my preference would be to have a tank. But, when I'm paying 30-40k or 12 plat for DMG, DMG Reduction and Reroll kits every 30 minutes, the Warrior penalty means I get in one or two fewer runs than with a full DPS party, so the cost per run increases by as much as 40%!

Here is an idea on skill upgrades:
VB: Extend buff to entire party
RC: Double the buff time
WM: Extend attack range, mobs/bosses hit get a -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
SS: 50% Damage reduction to affected mobs/boss for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
HoR: Panic mobs in range
AT: -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds
CS: 100% interruption of windup on bosses! 100% stun!
Jug: Damage taken while skill is active is also reflected back on the attacking mob/boss


Obviously, these added effects would only apply to PvE, but if these were added, why wouldn't DPS players want to run with tanks?

+1000

[Otahaanak]

The source of the issue is why Tanks aren't really welcomed in party. It all comes down to the fact that Warriors don't save much in the way of ankh (which is the real currency for elite, since pots are just the cost of doing business) because many mobs and bosses one-hit, tank or no tank, yet their presence slow down runs tremendously.

The solution in my mind is to have Warriors deal massive debuffs on armor, hit %, damage, etc. AND strong party buffs. If a Warrior can debuff mobs and bosses enough that there is no appreciable difference in overall run times, AND their presence can save you some pots/ankh, then the entire dynamic of tanking changes. If I can save some pots and ankh but still farm at the same rate, then my preference would be to have a tank. But, when I'm paying 30-40k or 12 plat for DMG, DMG Reduction and Reroll kits every 30 minutes, the Warrior penalty means I get in one or two fewer runs than with a full DPS party, so the cost per run increases by as much as 40%!

Here is an idea on skill upgrades:
VB: Extend buff to entire party
RC: Double the buff time
WM: Extend attack range, mobs/bosses hit get a -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
SS: 50% Damage reduction to affected mobs/boss for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
HoR: Panic mobs in range
AT: -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds
CS: 100% interruption of windup on bosses! 100% stun!
Jug: Damage taken while skill is active is also reflected back on the attacking mob/boss


Obviously, these added effects would only apply to PvE, but if these were added, why wouldn't DPS players want to run with tanks?
Has STS ever acknowledged that a tank in the party scales the mob difficulty significantly? If not, then why would they ever add the suggestions?

If they have acknowledged it, then the debuffs proposed will only mitigate the Warriors presence.

I'm with you, and all those who are making this suggestion, I just don't see STS adding debuffs for something they don't believe is actually happening. In their mind this will only make the maps that much easier, no?

[affizenho]

Here's an idea: parties of 3 or 4 that include all three different classes get a buff. Now I don't know what buff, but let's say for example it's a +dmg, +speed, +hp, +mana and dmg reduction, in a way that a party of 3 or 4 with the class buff is as efficient or at least almost as efficient as a party of 3 or 4 rogues. This would obviously go against the whole platinum spending that STS desires, so maybe a lesser buff just to make it an incentive would be pretty good.

[Slowking]

Yes! Warriors need a buff in pve!

[Ardbeg]

for the pve side, there are options to reward mixed parties on map design alone:
for examples 3 obstacles, which could only be conquered each by by one class and reveal a shortcut to the boss.
this could serve as a quick fix for event lb s for example, where the tank with the most dps friends wins...

but in generell the skill system must be recalibrated to make all classes desireable in a party without artificial elements on the map.

and yes, like ota said, the scaling needs to be looked into too.

[Xorrior]

The source of the issue is why Tanks aren't really welcomed in party. It all comes down to the fact that Warriors don't save much in the way of ankh (which is the real currency for elite, since pots are just the cost of doing business) because many mobs and bosses one-hit, tank or no tank, yet their presence slow down runs tremendously.

The solution in my mind is to have Warriors deal massive debuffs on armor, hit %, damage, etc. AND strong party buffs. If a Warrior can debuff mobs and bosses enough that there is no appreciable difference in overall run times, AND their presence can save you some pots/ankh, then the entire dynamic of tanking changes. If I can save some pots and ankh but still farm at the same rate, then my preference would be to have a tank. But, when I'm paying 30-40k or 12 plat for DMG, DMG Reduction and Reroll kits every 30 minutes, the Warrior penalty means I get in one or two fewer runs than with a full DPS party, so the cost per run increases by as much as 40%!

Here is an idea on skill upgrades:
VB: Extend buff to entire party
RC: Double the buff time
WM: Extend attack range, mobs/bosses hit get a -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
SS: 50% Damage reduction to affected mobs/boss for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
HoR: Panic mobs in range
AT: -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds
CS: 100% interruption of windup on bosses! 100% stun!
Jug: Damage taken while skill is active is also reflected back on the attacking mob/boss


Obviously, these added effects would only apply to PvE, but if these were added, why wouldn't DPS players want to run with tanks?

Carapace please take a look at the above skill set and improvements mentioned by Kalizzaa. This is what we really need, and I'm sure would not take much time being implemented.

[Excuses]

The source of the issue is why Tanks aren't really welcomed in party. It all comes down to the fact that Warriors don't save much in the way of ankh (which is the real currency for elite, since pots are just the cost of doing business) because many mobs and bosses one-hit, tank or no tank, yet their presence slow down runs tremendously.

The solution in my mind is to have Warriors deal massive debuffs on armor, hit %, damage, etc. AND strong party buffs. If a Warrior can debuff mobs and bosses enough that there is no appreciable difference in overall run times, AND their presence can save you some pots/ankh, then the entire dynamic of tanking changes. If I can save some pots and ankh but still farm at the same rate, then my preference would be to have a tank. But, when I'm paying 30-40k or 12 plat for DMG, DMG Reduction and Reroll kits every 30 minutes, the Warrior penalty means I get in one or two fewer runs than with a full DPS party, so the cost per run increases by as much as 40%!

Here is an idea on skill upgrades:
VB: Extend buff to entire party
RC: Double the buff time
WM: Extend attack range, mobs/bosses hit get a -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
SS: 50% Damage reduction to affected mobs/boss for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
HoR: Panic mobs in range
AT: -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds
CS: 100% interruption of windup on bosses! 100% stun!
Jug: Damage taken while skill is active is also reflected back on the attacking mob/boss


Obviously, these added effects would only apply to PvE, but if these were added, why wouldn't DPS players want to run with tanks?

Awesome upgrades.

As a tank, I am frustrated on keeping aggro. I'm using 3 taunt skills with all taunt upgrade. But I still lose aggro so much. The bosses don't even bother to look at me like my cs don't even scratch him.

It's either rogue's dmg is too higher than warrior's taunt or taunt itself is too short and weak.
Please let us 'tank'.

[logout]

hard to find tank now -.- plz guys come back

[Maarkus]

Posted this on Remiem's weekly update:

Hi Remiem,

Thanks for the update.

I understand that you guys are busy and preparing for the expansion.

I dont wont pretend to know how the game coding/mechanism works but as mentioned the foundation needed in the warrior skills for the warrior to be more effcient in party runs at endgame is already there and maybe you can activate them or increase their percentage. This was the quick fix that i was reffering to. For example:

1.0 Skward smash, chest splitter , axe throw have already in their description 'increased damage on a critical' why not just increase the percentage of this damage to make wars more efficient in helping to take out mons and bosses
2.0 Axe Throw Denting Blow upgrade description states 'enemies hit by your weapom recieves 10% armore reduction' why not increse this to 40-50percent
3.0 Chest Splitter staggering blow upgrade states 'will interrupt an enemy's attack wind ups' why not apply this to all bosses and mons as currently it is not in effect and if it is it is not noticable, immaging how helpful a warrior can be if we can cancel the boss special attacks.
4.0 Feeble of axe throw and chest splitter all is states in the skill description is 'for a short time' how short is tbis time? Can it not be increased? Like from 2sec to 8seconds?

I understand that a revamp is necessary but as show here the foindation required to asssit warriors in becoming effcient in parties are already there is it really that complex to increase the values in these parameters? Yes its a quick fix i understand that but better have it temporarily intil the real skill revamp than have warriors switch toons just because they cant pve efficiently.

I wont event want to mention 'Taunt' cos for warrior to taunt at endgame parties ... That is a major revamp indeed.

Regarding your planning and mentioning in your post that hope will post an update when there is a relevant progress, to be honest and no offense intended, thats not exactly a what a client would want to hear, i mean yes its a game but also a business right. Its like saying 'when we find a solution, and we are alworking in it, we will get back to you' well in a business environtment that just doesnt work. Sts has to be responsible enough to give itself a deadline to achieve the goal and if you have given yourselfs a dealine why not share it with us? We would be more appreciative of that. It could be as simple as we will lok into it for a year an have quarter updages with the 'tweeks' and reasses the situation per update'. But such an aswers was not even hinted.

I know my tone here and in previous post is rather persistent and hopefully not aggressive but i just sincerely belive that such a change will help the game, thus my persistence, a game which i love and spent money on and a game which i hope will last.

Thanks for reading and i hope this makes sense.

Thanks
Maarkus

[Farminer's]

Doesn't matter how much u buff warrior, even if it does double the damage in pve then what it does now , id rather run with rouges , warriors still womt be able to match a rouge with anks around who needs a warrior for survivability, now that's the real problem, ank kits.

And @remiem you can have new maps deal 10k damage we still won't need tanks, we are all too dependant on anks and elixers. With them around us rouges really don't need any help, only reason I ever run with tanks is to help them get in a party because they really are not much benefit to any party in pve, no offence tanks lol!.
Lol and this is all true

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

[bustaflex]

Same as PL all about mages/archers for quick runs. The whole tank idea is useless if the other classes kill things instantly. I feel like warriors should be able to spec as a tank or a damage or hybrid.

[indotoraja]

hey OP i felt like this too.

even with bonesaw, mythic sets and samael on me...i was kicked from pt because the pt leader want a fast run.

well its easy for me i just remove him from my friend list and put him on my ignore list..

what is the maximum the ignore list can handle? lol

everbody now become racist to warrior.

im sad to see this conditions. all my friend warrs told me no body want to play with them, and they even evicted from map by others in random pt.

well i only have 1 char and its a warr. come on sts make this game more fun to play for warrior.

dont make us to fell wasted while play.

[Bellaelda]

The source of the issue is why Tanks aren't really welcomed in party. It all comes down to the fact that Warriors don't save much in the way of ankh (which is the real currency for elite, since pots are just the cost of doing business) because many mobs and bosses one-hit, tank or no tank, yet their presence slow down runs tremendously.

The solution in my mind is to have Warriors deal massive debuffs on armor, hit %, damage, etc. AND strong party buffs. If a Warrior can debuff mobs and bosses enough that there is no appreciable difference in overall run times, AND their presence can save you some pots/ankh, then the entire dynamic of tanking changes. If I can save some pots and ankh but still farm at the same rate, then my preference would be to have a tank. But, when I'm paying 30-40k or 12 plat for DMG, DMG Reduction and Reroll kits every 30 minutes, the Warrior penalty means I get in one or two fewer runs than with a full DPS party, so the cost per run increases by as much as 40%!

Here is an idea on skill upgrades:
VB: Extend buff to entire party
RC: Double the buff time
WM: Extend attack range, mobs/bosses hit get a -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
SS: 50% Damage reduction to affected mobs/boss for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
HoR: Panic mobs in range
AT: -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds
CS: 100% interruption of windup on bosses! 100% stun!
Jug: Damage taken while skill is active is also reflected back on the attacking mob/boss


Obviously, these added effects would only apply to PvE, but if these were added, why wouldn't DPS players want to run with tanks?

+1 awesome! We need this!

[Serancha]

CS: 100% interruption of windup on bosses! 100% stun!

Obviously, these added effects would only apply to PvE, but if these were added, why wouldn't DPS players want to run with tanks?

Just an interesting fact. CS used to have 100% stun, or close to it, and that stun also worked in pvp. They took it out in the middle of season 3 in a hidden patch.

Ravager can verify that, since I used it on him until he learned how to run ;) (that took all of 3 fights)

[GoodSyntax]

Just an interesting fact. CS used to have 100% stun, or close to it, and that stun also worked in pvp. They took it out in the middle of season 3 in a hidden patch.

And that's the problem. A skill, described as being able to cancel boss windups, no longer performs as advertised. It could be a great skill because it has a very fast cooldown, so, in the right hands, could be priceless.

I have no issue if STS decides to continue the trend of one-hits, but there has to be a strategy or party alignment to counter that. A tank with a proper CS skill could be that counter. If some of these debuffs could be added, and STS creates tougher and tougher bosses, it would actually discourage all-DPS parties and success would require a competent tank, which is what everyone is asking for.

Given the skill upgrades I am suggesting, imagine a tank rounding up a massive group of mobs, Sorc knocks them all down with a FB then drops a clock to root them, the tank uses WM to debuff the mobs and VB to buff the party, and the Rogues go to work taking out the pack in their weakened state. This would be the true cooperative dynamic which is currently missing. This could potentially make runs extremely fast with the right classes together, but much, much more difficult on all-Rogue, or all-DPS parties.

Even better would be with bosses! A tank holding aggro and absorbing the normal damage, using CS to stun on the big windups, debuffing and casting VB to boost the party for faster kills. Far better than the hacks we employ now rotating Kelvin/George/Breeze. Rogues (the single target DMG class) nerfing themselves with inferior pets just to interrupt windups is counter-productive. There isn't much strategy in chain-stunning. Somehow, this game should reward skill and teamwork, and this is a could be a really good way to get there.

[Bellaelda]

Love these ideas... Would be nice to get 1/3 the population back into pve... and stop losing so many end game tanks outta boredom.

[Upbeatx]

How about the update on warrior skills? Any new news? Thanks

[Maarkus]

I posted some suggestions on Remiem's weekly update thread(and fixed some typos @@)


Hi Remiem,
Thanks for the updates, much appreciated as usual :)

Thank you also for the transparency and honestly that sts is not sure when the skill will be fixed. It takes a lot to admit that one doesnt know but in mentioning that, can certain things be done that is within the current skill system?

I only play the warrior class so im going to be warrior pve specific here.

The reason why i put this across is that as mentioned and quite known, the warrior class is the least efficient endgame pve farming class thus with that parties rarely need a warrior. The threat here is that as the new expan is comming and farming will be essential we may face another demographic being alienated from farming. I understand that you are looking into maps that will need a mix class combination to run but at the moment can you kindly look at the warrior skills and review.

Chestsplitter has an upgrade called Staggering Blow; that cancels the boss wind up and this was 'disabled' sometime in season 3, can this be enabled/activated again as this was and can be the saving grace of warriors in a party. The red zone fixes are being implemented this will just enable different classes to go range, but if a warrior can cancell the boss and mob windup then we can have a chance at being and integral cmponent in the farming party
124697

Aside from this, armor reduction is another avenue where warrior can benefit a farming party. Which is also already integrated into our skills. Axe throw has this option (skill upgrade : Denting Blow) though it is only 10percent, and i assume its duration is 1sec can this be modified to atleast 30percent armor reduction and last atleast 2seconds?
124698

I push and appeal for such changes as mentioned in other threads the warrior class efficientcy in PVE farming is near obsolete and the proposed skill solution... For chestsplitter its not even a buff , i only suggest to bring back the upgrade as it is not active. For axe throw it is a buff but a much needed one.

I have seen enough fellow warriors change to rogues just to farm, and enough social alienation for warrior class thus i really hope you that my suggestions seriously.

Thanks for reading

Maarkus

[Excuses]

While I respec for complete pve skills, got a couple of things to press.

1. Vg buff to all pt seems a great idea, however, range of it will be a problem, also it has no taunt which means we have to give up one taunt skill to to make the run faster. Honestly I'm not happy with this.
I would rather like to have 'great' armor debuff on all taunt skills or curse(sorry mages) like Bulwark has.
1 warrior should be able to buff more dmg to pt than 1 rogue can do. Or this whole upgrade is pointless.
Ex) on arena enrage, 1 warrior pt should be able to finish the boss faster than 4 rogues pt.

2. All skills should work as it is indicated.
Cs- cancel boss skill and feeble
AT- be able to pull all bosses and feeble.
WM- snare boss
HoR- taunt on each heals with upgrade.
Jugg- (my wish) has wider range of taunt

3.taunt should be stronger.
It does work atm, but still needs little longer period of attention.


Some suggestions.

[Energizeric]

As a sorcerer, I'd like to make a couple of comments to this thread....

1) As we get later into each season and more players have arcane & mythic gear, the elite dungeons become easier than when the season first started, so the need to have a tank becomes less than before. Since we are right at the end of the current season and a new expansion is coming soon, that is probably the main reason why many tanks are feeling unneeded.

2) At the beginning of the season when most players are under-geared, having a tank (or two) in a party running elites is absolutely necessary.

3) Even now, some of the more difficult content such as the Planar tombs requires a good tank for 95% of parties. Unless you have a rogue like Zeus with 1800 armor, you are going to need a tank.

And just a side note, yesterday I had a party with 2 rogues and myself (a sorcerer) and we wanted to do some runs in tombs #3. We could not find a warrior to join us. We stood around in the tombs for a half hour asking, but every warrior that came through there was already in a party. Then we tried to run the tomb without a warrior, and that turned out really bad as we all kept dying a lot. Finally we found a warrior after a half hour of asking around, and things went much more smoothly. So yes warriors are needed when you have the most difficult content. For easier situations such as the Arena, where speed is more of a concern, then warriors are not as needed.

[Kriticality]

Ener your first point is very good and something I haven't considered. I just started playing in October so haven't seen a season transition. I also think that maarkus has a great idea to make skills work as they should. Boasting to 30% armor debuff may not make tanks necessary for the super elite rogue party but I sure would love to have a tank in my party if that were implemented. Tanks do need at least a little love at end game pve. Especially in arena with the enrage. Canceling those boss attacks would be awesome!!

[regizakirs.rs]

A warrior is always welcome in any pt that I'm involved in if I'm the party leader. As a matter of fact any tanks that want to run with me just pm me in game. My ign is ladynifft and thanks warriors[emoji12]

[Maarkus]

As a sorcerer, I'd like to make a couple of comments to this thread....

1) As we get later into each season and more players have arcane & mythic gear, the elite dungeons become easier than when the season first started, so the need to have a tank becomes less than before. Since we are right at the end of the current season and a new expansion is coming soon, that is probably the main reason why many tanks are feeling unneeded.

2) At the beginning of the season when most players are under-geared, having a tank (or two) in a party running elites is absolutely necessary.

3) Even now, some of the more difficult content such as the Planar tombs requires a good tank for 95% of parties. Unless you have a rogue like Zeus with 1800 armor, you are going to need a tank.

And just a side note, yesterday I had a party with 2 rogues and myself (a sorcerer) and we wanted to do some runs in tombs #3. We could not find a warrior to join us. We stood around in the tombs for a half hour asking, but every warrior that came through there was already in a party. Then we tried to run the tomb without a warrior, and that turned out really bad as we all kept dying a lot. Finally we found a warrior after a half hour of asking around, and things went much more smoothly. So yes warriors are needed when you have the most difficult content. For easier situations such as the Arena, where speed is more of a concern, then warriors are not as needed.

Hi Ener,

Regarding your side note.

I think this is a side effect of what was a prevailing issue a few months back when warrior frealized that they are in efficient in PVE thus many of them made rogue toons. Now the warrior pve focused player are switching class thus less warrir around. Ive seen the effect in my friendlist as well when the rogue alts of warrior that i know show up rather than the warrior mains.

The thing that i fear the most is when the expan hits and farming in the first 2-3weeks is extensive a lot of warriors would have already switch toons and then there will be a lot less warriors in the game.

I think this is where STS has to change their perspective, its not all about stats or gear anymore its about how player feel when they play a particular toon. A perfect example is some rogue llayer that feel confortable in all legendary gear and still feel efficient in farming, this shows how strong a rogue toon can be in pve farming but if applied to the warrior class... I dont thinm so there will be some form of 'inadequacy' felt as the toon is not as 'strong/efficient' as our hopes would be.

Thanks for your post and for reading :)

maarkus

[Bmwmsix]

Bump

[Jazzi]

As a sorcerer, I'd like to make a couple of comments to this thread....

1) As we get later into each season and more players have arcane & mythic gear, the elite dungeons become easier than when the season first started, so the need to have a tank becomes less than before. Since we are right at the end of the current season and a new expansion is coming soon, that is probably the main reason why many tanks are feeling unneeded.

2) At the beginning of the season when most players are under-geared, having a tank (or two) in a party running elites is absolutely necessary.

3) Even now, some of the more difficult content such as the Planar tombs requires a good tank for 95% of parties. Unless you have a rogue like Zeus with 1800 armor, you are going to need a tank.

And just a side note, yesterday I had a party with 2 rogues and myself (a sorcerer) and we wanted to do some runs in tombs #3. We could not find a warrior to join us. We stood around in the tombs for a half hour asking, but every warrior that came through there was already in a party. Then we tried to run the tomb without a warrior, and that turned out really bad as we all kept dying a lot. Finally we found a warrior after a half hour of asking around, and things went much more smoothly. So yes warriors are needed when you have the most difficult content. For easier situations such as the Arena, where speed is more of a concern, then warriors are not as needed.

I have thought about the reasons you mentioned above. It is true that it is easier to do the elite maps without a tank if you have myth gear. Nevertheless it is still way easier and less costly in terms of potions ankhs and elixirs, albeit a minute or two slower, if you have a tank in your party. The overgeared players, e.g rogues with 5 k health 1700+ armour and 700+ damage, are very few in percentage and practically statistically negligible relative to the whole game population.

The lack of tanks really is frustrating sometimes when trying to make a t3 party. I also have to say here, that sadly, that some of those maxed or almost maxed out tanks have little to no skill in PvE. Today I had the displeasure of playing t3 with one of those, who is also avidly complaining on the forums about not being able to find parties.


Hi Ener,

Regarding your side note.

I think this is a side effect of what was a prevailing issue a few months back when warrior frealized that they are in efficient in PVE thus many of them made rogue toons. Now the warrior pve focused player are switching class thus less warrir around. Ive seen the effect in my friendlist as well when the rogue alts of warrior that i know show up rather than the warrior mains.

The thing that i fear the most is when the expan hits and farming in the first 2-3weeks is extensive a lot of warriors would have already switch toons and then there will be a lot less warriors in the game.

I think this is where STS has to change their perspective, its not all about stats or gear anymore its about how player feel when they play a particular toon. A perfect example is some rogue llayer that feel confortable in all legendary gear and still feel efficient in farming, this shows how strong a rogue toon can be in pve farming but if applied to the warrior class... I dont thinm so there will be some form of 'inadequacy' felt as the toon is not as 'strong/efficient' as our hopes would be.

Thanks for your post and for reading :)

maarkus

I think that the efficiency of the rogue class is mainly based on on the immense hp of the elite mobs. I have seen this in other games as well, when the game producers did eventually change it. The problem is, imo, that although mobs do hit harder in elite maps, there hp is increased disproportionately as compared to the health increase of the mobs from there "normal" counterparts. Simply said: it takes forever to kill them, thus making the presence of more than one warrior in the pt ineffective.

And by the way a rogue in legendary gear is the hardest to play of the three classes: A tank in legendary gear can tank all elite maps with ease (have seen it first hand and play regularly with a warrior in legendary gear who does a much better job than most tanks I have played with. Some of them maxed out). A mage with legendary gear, might do less damage, but still can do the his most important job: crows control. A legendary rogue has no shield as a mage and lower hp than a mage and gets one hit by many mobs in elite. But most importantly it cant do then the one thing it is good at: deal damage. Further a legendary rogue has the highest expenditure in terms of ankhs, mana and health potions of the 3 classes.

And last but not least. I do agree that warriors need some modifications. Something has to be done about their ability to keep aggro with their taunt skills and maybe give them some debuffs. However many of the statements in this and other similar threads, not referring to yours in particular, are extremely exaggerated. Just my 2 cents.

Regards :-)

[Maarkus]

I have thought about the reasons you mentioned above. It is true that it is easier to do the elite maps without a tank if you have myth gear. Nevertheless it is still way easier and less costly in terms of potions ankhs and elixirs, albeit a minute or two slower, if you have a tank in your party. The overgeared players, e.g rogues with 5 k health 1700+ armour and 700+ damage, are very few in percentage and practically statistically negligible relative to the whole game population.

The lack of tanks really is frustrating sometimes when trying to make a t3 party. I also have to say here, that sadly, that some of those maxed or almost maxed out tanks have little to no skill in PvE. Today I had the displeasure of playing t3 with one of those, who is also avidly complaining on the forums about not being able to find parties.



I think that the efficiency of the rogue class is mainly based on on the immense hp of the elite mobs. I have seen this in other games as well, when the game producers did eventually change it. The problem is, imo, that although mobs do hit harder in elite maps, there hp is increased disproportionately as compared to the health increase of the mobs from there "normal" counterparts. Simply said: it takes forever to kill them, thus making the presence of more than one warrior in the pt ineffective.

And by the way a rogue in legendary gear is the hardest to play of the three classes: A tank in legendary gear can tank all elite maps with ease (have seen it first hand and play regularly with a warrior in legendary gear who does a much better job than most tanks I have played with. Some of them maxed out). A mage with legendary gear, might do less damage, but still can do the his most important job: crows control. A legendary rogue has no shield as a mage and lower hp than a mage and gets one hit by many mobs in elite. But most importantly it cant do then the one thing it is good at: deal damage. Further a legendary rogue has the highest expenditure in terms of ankhs, mana and health potions of the 3 classes.

And last but not least. I do agree that warriors need some modifications. Something has to be done about their ability to keep aggro with their taunt skills and maybe give them some debuffs. However many of the statements in this and other similar threads, not referring to yours in particular, are extremely exaggerated. Just my 2 cents.

Regards :-)

Hi Jazzi,
Thanks for your comments
I thinks its really about who you are playimg with and how well the party works with each other.
Ive had the priveledge of playing with some of the best and also experienced playing with those that dont have much experience and i even play PUG every now and then just to leadn how to addapt to players that i dont know.
I guess my comments come from playing with a group that i play constantly with.
With that in mind ive seen the slow 'degenaration' of the warrior class as an efficient toon in elite pve farming thus my attempts to get STS to buff some skills and to 'return' some skills like the chesst splitter upgrage Staggering blow.
To be bonest its really all about the party expectations. Some parties dont mind running slow runs and some parties want fast runs.
Its in the fast runs were warrior start to falter. My best example is T3, before the T3 map was even modified, i mean the very first release when people were complaining of the difficulty, i ran with rogues that can accomplish this map in 5-6mins (3-4 rogue party) and when i (warrior) get in to the mix they his 9-10mins. Then yah this is frustrating for them.
But even before this, in the shuyal expan i already noticed the warrior 'degeneration' start to take effect.
Regarding you comment on warrior need to taunt/maintain aggro better, this is absolutely correct but in my personal oppinion cannot be achieved efficiently due to the core game mechanics this i dont even bother to request STS to fix it cos i personally belive it will invovle a major overhaul. Please not i just based my oppinion on game play experience and not on coding as i honestly have no clue on programming.
The main issue warriors are having in maintating aggro is the massive damage output of rogues and mages (may it be from damge and crit damege) the mobs redirect their attention to the other class so easily now compared to season 2/3/4. From what i understand from earlier Tanks and seasoned veterants is that warrior Taunts reset the threat meter of Mobs and bosses at the same time makes the tauntimg warrior priority one in attack but this does not have a fixed time thus as soom as the mages and rogues start dissing out damage (and obviously fasters and more than warriors) the threat counter fill up more on them than the warrior thus mobs and bosses immediately redirect to them. This is where the amount of newly casted taunts become more important than taunts over time as the new goal for tanks should be to reset the threat counters as often as possible. This is where the Warrior skills become key, and at the moment they are not. Thus the request to review and revaluate them.

I mean i gues we all agree that warrior need a 'buff' but not stat wise but skill efficientcy wise.

This lack of review has caused many warriors to change class thus the current predicament of the game. Unless sts sees this and accepts it and fixes the warrior skills i fear it will just continue thus warriors are now making rogues ( as mentioned in posts by some prominent warriors) ... The expansion is comming so that like 2-3 weekings of opportunty to make good gold and its all about how fast you finish a map , thus why go warrior? This is something only STS can address as a majority of the population wont even bother to study and develop the warrior toons.

Ok ill stop as i feel like im blaabing @@

But thank for your comment as it helps keep the issue alive as STS need to address this issue more

Thanks for reading.

Maarkus

[Rx8]

All i could understand from Maarkus' post ATM, is - that the skill upgrades are the suitable cause for warriors slowin down the party. Right?...Correct me if i am wrong

[Maarkus]

All i could understand from Maarkus' post ATM, is - that the skill upgrades are the suitable cause for warriors slowin down the party. Right?...Correct me if i am wrong

Hi Rx8,
Sorry was blaberring ther.
Not at all, the All im saying is that the skill upgrade: 'staggering blow' of chest splitter needs to be reactivated by sts as the cancel boss wind ups is disabled. And that the warrior skills need to be 'buffed' for pve elite farming and this is something in plave already sts just needs to activate it.
Currently the main issues is that warriors are inefficient because we cant contribute much to the party for elite farming.
And numerous suggestuons have been made to fix them but STS says its a major job ... What i was trying to say is why is it a major task to fix when the updgrades we need in the skills are already there but not turned on- staggering blow of chest splitter and the armor reduction of 10 percent in denting blow of axe throw needs to be increased to maybe 30 percent.
I hipe that helps clarify things
Thanks for reading
Maarkus

[Rx8]

Hi Rx8,
Sorry was blaberring ther.
Not at all, the All im saying is that the skill upgrade: 'staggering blow' of chest splitter needs to be reactivated by sts as the cancel boss wind ups is disabled. And that the warrior skills need to be 'buffed' for pve elite farming and this is something in plave already sts just needs to activate it.
Currently the main issues is that warriors are inefficient because we cant contribute much to the party for elite farming.
And numerous suggestuons have been made to fix them but STS says its a major job ... What i was trying to say is why is it a major task to fix when the updgrades we need in the skills are already there but not turned on- staggering blow of chest splitter and the armor reduction of 10 percent in denting blow of axe throw needs to be increased to maybe 30 percent.
I hipe that helps clarify things
Thanks for reading
Maarkus

I didnt see much of blabbering, it looked like more of the blame-for-it stuff.

I would agree on this buffing the chance rates, but since STS is afraid of the outcome, and the period of doing this is also very long enough to be mentioned. Also, maybe it would be good to buff as if this lower chances continue...the new expansion would be at a very slow rate. If you know what i am talking about. It would be really cool to buff if it at least when the elite version of the expansion is out...They said it being a major job as there are alot of players, one change by the devs is major, thus the fear. A simple mistake can cost the games downfall too (well, thats obviously not gonna happen! Lol) They try their best from the user experience. And, the buff in pve needs to happen soon too (as i said Above, the rate of speed). At this rate things seem fine, not upto expectations but somewhat legit (ish).

How about buffing when the expansion is out...or...

[Jazzi]

Hi Jazzi,
Thanks for your comments
I thinks its really about who you are playimg with and how well the party works with each other.
Ive had the priveledge of playing with some of the best and also experienced playing with those that dont have much experience and i even play PUG every now and then just to leadn how to addapt to players that i dont know.
I guess my comments come from playing with a group that i play constantly with.
With that in mind ive seen the slow 'degenaration' of the warrior class as an efficient toon in elite pve farming thus my attempts to get STS to buff some skills and to 'return' some skills like the chesst splitter upgrage Staggering blow.
To be bonest its really all about the party expectations. Some parties dont mind running slow runs and some parties want fast runs.
Its in the fast runs were warrior start to falter. My best example is T3, before the T3 map was even modified, i mean the very first release when people were complaining of the difficulty, i ran with rogues that can accomplish this map in 5-6mins (3-4 rogue party) and when i (warrior) get in to the mix they his 9-10mins. Then yah this is frustrating for them.
But even before this, in the shuyal expan i already noticed the warrior 'degeneration' start to take effect.
Regarding you comment on warrior need to taunt/maintain aggro better, this is absolutely correct but in my personal oppinion cannot be achieved efficiently due to the core game mechanics this i dont even bother to request STS to fix it cos i personally belive it will invovle a major overhaul. Please not i just based my oppinion on game play experience and not on coding as i honestly have no clue on programming.
The main issue warriors are having in maintating aggro is the massive damage output of rogues and mages (may it be from damge and crit damege) the mobs redirect their attention to the other class so easily now compared to season 2/3/4. From what i understand from earlier Tanks and seasoned veterants is that warrior Taunts reset the threat meter of Mobs and bosses at the same time makes the tauntimg warrior priority one in attack but this does not have a fixed time thus as soom as the mages and rogues start dissing out damage (and obviously fasters and more than warriors) the threat counter fill up more on them than the warrior thus mobs and bosses immediately redirect to them. This is where the amount of newly casted taunts become more important than taunts over time as the new goal for tanks should be to reset the threat counters as often as possible. This is where the Warrior skills become key, and at the moment they are not. Thus the request to review and revaluate them.

I mean i gues we all agree that warrior need a 'buff' but not stat wise but skill efficientcy wise.

This lack of review has caused many warriors to change class thus the current predicament of the game. Unless sts sees this and accepts it and fixes the warrior skills i fear it will just continue thus warriors are now making rogues ( as mentioned in posts by some prominent warriors) ... The expansion is comming so that like 2-3 weekings of opportunty to make good gold and its all about how fast you finish a map , thus why go warrior? This is something only STS can address as a majority of the population wont even bother to study and develop the warrior toons.

Ok ill stop as i feel like im blaabing @@

But thank for your comment as it helps keep the issue alive as STS need to address this issue more

Thanks for reading.

Maarkus

Well I play the game since the the Ursoth event last year, so I really cant talk about anything before that. As for the rest I agree with you. Maybe a fast and temporary solution, until sts changes the whole skill system, is to at least implement timers in the taunts, so that they do keep 100% aggro for a certain amount of time. But honestly I really hope for things like "warcries", which buff the whole party and/or debuff the mobs. This, inmo, would much more fun :-)

[Dragoonclaws]

I've ran a some Elite Planar Arena. Planar Arena be like ''I have an army'' (of bosses), and we like ''We have a Hulk'' (Badulaseros, da warrior). At the end of the round, Badul be like ''Puny boss''

[Tatman]

I also have to say here, that sadly, that some of those maxed or almost maxed out tanks have little to no skill in PvE. Today I had the displeasure of playing t3 with one of those, who is also avidly complaining on the forums about not being able to find parties.

In my experience there are other factors at play here too.

1. Tank might be lagging. While a rogue lagging can sometimes even go unnoticed by the rest of the party, a tank lagging will very often result in awful runs. I know this, since some of the tanks, I love running with, have been lagging badly recently. If you run with one of them for the first time and catch him in one of those moments, you'll easily say "wow this guy is crap". While truth is he's an excellent tank.

2. A lot of tanks go to places like Tombs with their PvP builds. Or with their so called "hybrid builds", which for a lot of them means PvP build with a couple taunts thrown in the mix. It just does not work. But I don't blame warriors. It's what the current situation in this game dictates. Not everyone has the resources to respec all the time.

[Maarkus]

Well I play the game since the the Ursoth event last year, so I really cant talk about anything before that. As for the rest I agree with you. Maybe a fast and temporary solution, until sts changes the whole skill system, is to at least implement timers in the taunts, so that they do keep 100% aggro for a certain amount of time. But honestly I really hope for things like "warcries", which buff the whole party and/or debuff the mobs. This, inmo, would much more fun :-)

Hi Jazzi,
From what i understand STS is not inclined towards revamping the skills within a short period of time as they need more 'research' for this thats why im pushing for buffs to certain skills which is just increasing the values for damage reduction and to bring back the cancell windups of enemies of the chest splitter skill as these are already in place and it should be a quick thing to do i mean the reduce/increase exisiting percentages all the time so i hope this is something they can manage.
As for war cry thats a complete overhaul i myself am not confident sts can pull it off without redoing the skill system... Sad but in my opinion true :(