Arena Chest Gem Unveil/Discussion

[Carapace]

Hello everyone!

Inbound in the future is a new Arena Gem for players to farm for. The primary idea behind these gems is to give players something in between the Arcane Fossil, and the Undead Vials, mixed in with the Gladiator gear to pursue. There will be three flavors of this gem, one for each primary stat (DEX, INT, STR).

In order to prevent scamming and other issues associated with gems/socketing/selling items, these gems have been scaled in such a way that everyone can use it without breaking PvP from the Armor amount at lower levels. The armor will certainly help however, but it will take some time and some coin to acquire. Note that the hit reduction on enemy only applies in PvE.

Here's a quick breakdown of what the gems are in there current form:

EDIT: Current iteration here: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?206318-Arena-Chest-Gem-Unveil-Discussion&p=2034518&viewfull=1#post2034518

Base Gems:
8 Armor, +INT (Scaled based on item level), and chance on do damage to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target
8 Armor, +STR (Scaled based on item level), and chance on do damage to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target
8 Armor, +DEX (Scaled based on item level), and chance on do damage to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target

Grand Gems:
15 Armor, +INT (Scaled based on item level with supergem bonus), and a chance on attack to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target
15 Armor, +STR (Scaled based on item level with supergem bonus), and a chance on attack to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target
15 Armor, +DEX (Scaled based on item level with supergem bonus), and a chance on attack to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target

And here's a breakdown of important aspects related to these gems:


The armor bonus does stack with multiple gems
The chance to proc hit reduction debuff on attack ability does not stack, or benefit from multiple arena gems. This currently has a 2% chance on doing damage to go off
The chance to receive a super gem is the same as other gems
The Supergem bonus for the stat portion of the gem will be a bit lower than a pure Blood, Glacial, or Fire gem. Not a lot, but enough to dissuade a potentially broken scenario of all gem slots taken up by these gems.
Arena Gems can be traded and stashed
Their vendor value is 2750 Gold
Only available from Elite Arena Master Chests
No crafting is required, the actual gem will drop and be of Legendary quality
Don't underestimate the value of reduced chance to hit in PvE!


Here’s how the Gem compares against its basic glacial, blood, and fire gem counterparts throughout some sampling of levels.

Level 02:
117420

Level 11:
117421

Level 21:
117503

Level 31:
117504

Level 41:
117505

Thoughts? Concerns?

[Morholt]

Looks like lvl 11 and 21 fire gems get slightly less of a stat boost on grand gems compared to glacial & blood.
Warriors are the OP ones at 15 and under.

And just for clarity: you first stated the proc is chance on attack. Then chance on doing damage. Which is it?

[Zeus]

Welp, looks like tanks are getting the armor they asked for.


Got a question: you have two sets of pics. One is an attachment, one is imbedded. Is it safe to assume the attachmwnt version (second set) can be discarded?

[Rx8]

So these are character bound then?

[Avaree]

So these are character bound then?

Cara said above in his opening post, " arena gems can be traded & stashed "

[Rx8]

Cara said above in his opening post, " arena gems can be traded & stashed "

I sort of slipped while readind :p

[Carapace]

Welp, looks like tanks are getting the armor they asked for.


Got a question: you have two sets of pics. One is an attachment, one is imbedded. Is it safe to assume the attachmwnt version (second set) can be discarded?

Correct, on did damage. Not sure how to get rid of the attacked image section but yes that is throw away :)

EDIT: Removed the irrelevant images!

[Candylicks]

This is legit!!!!!

[carmine_blade]

I like this :)

[Carapace]

Looks like lvl 11 and 21 fire gems get slightly less of a stat boost on grand gems compared to glacial & blood.
Warriors are the OP ones at 15 and under.

And just for clarity: you first stated the proc is chance on attack. Then chance on doing damage. Which is it?

That is a mistake in my photoshopping skills, they are all equal across all stat types

[Froxanthar]

Hureeey. Rogues with high armor gonna running around AL.

[Zeus]

Hureeey. Rogues with high armor gonna running around AL.

I don't know any rogue that would want to switch out more than one of these gems especially considering rogue packs heal based off of health.

[Visiting]

Sounds great for mage, considering we have tons of mana and damage, yet our armor if really low compared to other classes. This will be great to test out with new imbued sets :)

[Eski]

Just stop releasing new content.. fix the bugs instead
..and buff mages..

[Leonut]

This is really good. Thanks.

[Ravager]

Doesn't look too pleasing. On a grand gem for warrior, I'd rather have that 20 extra hp, extra dmg, extra bonus dmg than 15 armor. I'll probably use the gem instead of a rage gem when I only want normal gems and am trying to super gem one slot at a time.

[Maarkus]

Doesn't look too pleasing. On a grand gem for warrior, I'd rather have that 20 extra hp, extra dmg, extra bonus dmg than 15 armor. I'll probably use the gem instead of a rage gem when I only want normal gems and am trying to super gem one slot at a time.

I completely agree with Ravager, I can't see how this gem will help Warriors. As there are just some boss attacks that can't be deflected by armor.

[VooDoo Doll]

The bigger the lvl the bigger the armor that is my suggest lol...

[rstilzchen]

As a mage, I don’t like the new gems. 15 armor, 60 armor and even 120 armor, considering the respective losses of other characteristics, won’t help to the mage class. Such amount of armor will not protect us while eye gems build at least allows to kill. If grind this idea properly, we may get something good, but simple and obvious way is missing. Anyway I don’t see nothing bad if I will have one more thing worth 15k for sale from arena.

[Grizzlis]

Is it only for me but not scaling armor bonus is dumb asf? Seriously even in 2lv, players can get 150! armor and it would be absolutely OP. While in endgame 150 or even 225armor wouldn't be very big difference .

[Rome]

cool tank btw can't wait for the re egg system ^^

[Starscream]

Why does the arena fire gem get lesser dex on grand from other 2 gems under lvl21? [emoji50]

[Madnex]

Not worth the HP trade off from eye gems. Currently one of those gives 30 + 15 + 9 = 54 HP each for mages/rogues and 48 HP for warrs plus the whatever crit. Now let's say we're switching to this new gem which in the best scenario of supergem only provides 12 HP for mages and rogues and 40 for warrs. Always talking L41, the 15 armor blocks at best around 12 hit points (HP) for maxed out rogues with 1.8k armor and much less for mages at 1.3-1.4k (around 6 hit points).

So overall this is plainly unworthy of comparison for mages and rogues, without even factoring in the also stackable crit benefits from syrillax eye gems. Maybe warriors can make something out of it by stacking a few to reach a specific armor plateau.

Lastly, this proc at 2% is too low and mage-favored since they are the only class with enough damage over time to consistently proc this. But then again, this won't make sense if the 20% hit chance debuff is overriden from fireball's 100% upgrade of 25% hit chance debuff on charge.

Plus, hit% is worthless in pvp and when fighting bosses since neither can miss. Poor gem choice for endgame, it'll make a good twink gem for warriors though.

[davidvilla]

To the sts devs team,
Guys there are so many people at low level pvp Zone who r enraged just because warriors having more armor and they are almost impossible to kill even by other arcane class. And now this armor based gem is like Thr worst nightmare coming true.

I hereby ask a team to evaluate the following:
Make a warrior level 7 skill as 1 smash 1 juggernaut 2 on vengence with 50 str and horn with shield. Use Icescale fitness set with expedition shield weapon. Pet as Frist and all super of those new gems.

Try to make 3 rogues vs that warrior or make 5 v1 the warrior.

I recently bought few gears of level 10 with a thought there might be some sort of class balance soon at low level bit it doesn't seem things going to get right.

So please evaluate then make some possible correction and bring fairness to all class. Thanks

[Haligali]

Its very good, the rage gem and eye gems are useless for a warrior, they really need an armor gem so they can choose between blood, elon shard or this gem, however the primary stat loss seems a bit too much and the armor gain is a bit too less. What about - 1 primary(str) stat compared to blood gems, but +1% armor with each gem. And the int, dex versions aren't so useful, there is no sane mage/rogue who want to use them instead of wind/wisdom or eye gem. What about giving them the same tarlok stats, but with different secondary stat, eg main stat dex but secondary str, or main stat int, secondary dex. So if a rogue is lacking of str, then it can have same hp as with an eye gem, but with less penalty on main stat/damage.

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[Hail]

Lol. And I thought it couldn't get any worse than frist. My 10 rogue struggled to kill a level 9 jugger warrior that was armor based with one para and frist. Gg lets make low level warriors more op shall we. For mages I support this gem but for warriors its just too much to handle for us other classes.

[Haligali]

Lol. And I thought it couldn't get any worse than frist. My 10 rogue struggled to kill a level 9 jugger warrior that was armor based with one para and frist. Gg lets make low level warriors more op shall we. For mages I support this gem but for warriors its just too much to handle for us other classes.

Agree, at this current status, its heavily favour twinks, a % armor stat would be much balanced, so with 1% armor a lvl8 twink warrior 400 armor will gain only 4 armor, while a lvl41 warrior with 2500 will gain 25 armor.

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[Vermogen]

This is a real bad idea... Imagine twink tanks with 10 of this grand gems... +150 armor... So 1 hour clashes will be 5 hour clashes now... Add some dps or something but not armor...
I think we need a brake on gems.. We just had para gems and tralok gems.

[Haligali]

The Supergem bonus for the stat portion of the gem will be a bit lower than a pure Blood, Glacial, or Fire gem. Not a lot, but enough to dissuade a potentially broken scenario of all gem slots taken up by these gems.

I feel it's a little misunderstanding. All gem slots taken up by same gems isn't a broken scenario, its already a common practice, and I think you dont need to fight against it, instead adapt and calculate with it. However it's impossible to take up all gem slots with same gems, one para and one eye gem is a must, the rest can be variable. Just look at these items in auction:

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/f44e8fdb460419550e2969f6610addc7.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/b0557e4d7331acfabf547d7893d6c2f4.jpg

If people are using more of these gems, then there is a possibility to plat through supers, which means money for your company, I see nothing wrong, its a win-win.

[Littlegroot]

L - Leaving me speechless with this new gem
A - Am i suppose to feel excited with this new gem
M - Make me believe this is an interesting gem
E - Eventually all hell will break loose

Conclusion:

Is this the best Dev can come up with to make this game "trendy", "up to date", through "word of mouth", "social media"
This is a major problem i see in this game.

Players have spend a lot of real money in this game but things are moving really slow.
Trading have been slow
Currency in game have been dropping
Lesser players in PvE Pvp

Tell me if i am wrong, correct me please.
If dev requires gaming consultants, drop me a PM and we can communicate through E-Mail.

Just look at the forum
CHATBOX

since when does people start to shout through chat box selling items
In the past its a place where players chat and have interesting topics to talk about
Now its a "trader market" at Forum chatbox?
What is happening?

[Xpolosion]

So basically its for twinks.. Lol

[Samaeldavisjr]

Again, another useless situation in AL. Rolls eyes
GG

[Xpolosion]

I swear if sts changes this due to twinks whining that they cant farm this gem. Im done

[Madnex]

I'm actually siding with the idea of special gems not offering the hilariously large advantages that they do if stacked at the moment (see paracelsus gem, syrillax eye gem) because it widens the gap between the super wealthy and the middle class (plus the new players) even more.

There's no way to reach the best end game/twink setups that include multiple paragems and syrillax eyes for a new player, for example. That automatically means he/she cannot compete in neither pve timed runs nor in pvp without dishing out a ton of real cash (which also requires getting lucky! -- AL being the only game you can throw in 2k usd and walk out without the best of everything) and that's a huge turn off to anyone who just picks up the game. Not saying the more seasoned players should not have an advantage for sticking around longer but at the situation we're in, there's too large of an edge.

So no, if this gem is properly buffed (eg. made armor to scale too) and made as rare as vials (which are not all too common, just useless since there are no fossils to be crafted) it should offer a significant advantage that is maximized at 2-3 supergems tops.

Proposal:
First two supergems offer 2.4% and 2.6% armor and that's it, third and so on offer 0.25%. With this type of gems both old and new players can opt for more diverse gem setups without an unreasonable amount of gold needed.

[Excuses]

I have 2 questions.

(guess not but) does proc rate stack with more gem?

And how long does proc stay? Just for the attack or for a while?

15 armor is not really interesting tho.


---
And level 11 dex picture is wrong I think.

[Twinkshop]

i just play on lvl 9... do this and is the way i leave AL for once...

[Zeus]

Agree, at this current status, its heavily favour twinks, a % armor stat would be much balanced, so with 1% armor a lvl8 twink warrior 400 armor will gain only 4 armor, while a lvl41 warrior with 2500 will gain 25 armor.

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% armor boost would also mean the second you're hit with an armor debuff, all those armor percentage buffs go bye bye. :3

[Twinkshop]

u guys have so much diferent things for get armor...pets, the shield's, why lose time creating one thing like that? know what u should create? diferent pvp maps...so many seasons at same maps :/ ahhh and what about that gems only good on pve? and pvp stay at the same? what about that?

[Haligali]

I'm actually siding with the idea of special gems not offering the hilariously large advantages that they do if stacked at the moment (see paracelsus gem, syrillax eye gem) because it widens the gap between the super wealthy and the middle class (plus the new players) even more.

There's no way to reach the best end game/twink setups that include multiple paragems and syrillax eyes for a new player, for example. That automatically means he/she cannot compete in neither pve timed runs nor in pvp without dishing out a ton of real cash (which also requires getting lucky! -- AL being the only game you can throw in 2k usd and walk out without the best of everything) and that's a huge turn off to anyone who just picks up the game. Not saying the more seasoned players should not have an advantage for sticking around longer but at the situation we're in, there's too large of an edge.

So no, if this gem is properly buffed (eg. made armor to scale too) and made as rare as vials (which are not all too common, just useless since there are no fossils to be crafted) it should offer a significant advantage that is maximized at 2-3 supergems tops.

Proposal:
First two supergems offer 2.4% and 2.6% armor and that's it, third and so on offer 0.25%. With this type of gems both old and new players can opt for more diverse gem setups without an unreasonable amount of gold needed.

There is a main difference between elon shard/para/eye/tarlok gems and this armor gems, that the first ones are discontinued while this new one is not, so later anyone can buy them for a reasonable price.


% armor boost would also mean the second you're hit with an armor debuff, all those armor percentage buffs go bye bye. :3

Ok, but these given numbers heavily favour characters with low armor stat (twinks and mages) while not so good for characters with already high armor (end game warriors). What will be a good solution then?

[kixkaxx]

Why armor is not scaled.. Twink pvp is destroyed

[Haligali]

Ok what about, if % armor got problems with stacking of current passive modifiers (eg durable passive) or as zeus mentioned, armor debuffs can blow away, so if a given number is better then what about 0.25*item lvl on normal and 0.5*item lvl on grand? With a -1 primary stat penalty it should be reasonable for an end game warrior.

So on lvl41, if you use 10 of these gems, you receive -10 str that means -100 hp plus - dmg of course, but 102.5 armor bonus on normal and 205 extra armor if all supers. Thats reasonable, no?

Meanwhile, on lvl9, if you use 10 of these gems, then its the same -10 str -100 hp but only 22.5 plus armor on normal and 45 plus armor if all supers. Is it still too strong for twinks?

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[machinedog]

Too many gems out now, we don't need anymore gems :-/

[davidvilla]

The best solution will be:
Limit those gems to be use at 40/41 gears only. High levels indeed need more armor to tackle para and eye gem. But not for twinks. They already been maxed out with gears been provided and armor boost or damage reduction pets like littlebear, Frist, abaddon, singe.

More armor for warriors will be chaotic at levels below 15. It's almost impossible to kill warrior with pure armour and 3 heal skill build. Adding more armor will simply ruin the pvp because nobody going to die and all u see at pvp is just trash talk and bla bla bla.

[Haligali]

The best solution will be:
Limit those gems to be use at 40/41 gears only. High levels indeed need more armor to tackle para and eye gem. But not for twinks. They already been maxed out with gears been provided and armor boost or damage reduction pets like littlebear, Frist, abaddon, singe.

More armor for warriors will be chaotic at levels below 15. It's almost impossible to kill warrior with pure armour and 3 heal skill build. Adding more armor will simply ruin the pvp because nobody going to die and all u see at pvp is just trash talk and bla bla bla.

How you limit a gem for lvl41 only?

[Yumisa]

Very good thank you :) But this part seems a bit wrong to me ( maybe i don't understand well?) : ''The chance to proc hit reduction debuff on attack ability does not stack, or benefit from multiple arena gems. This currently has a 2% chance on doing damage to go off'' 2%= 1/50. So this means that you have to attack someone 50 times in average to make the 20% Hit reduction thing activate? if thats the case, its VERY low.

[davidvilla]

How you limit a gem for lvl41 only?

May be setting a level requirement while upgrading?

If devs consider it then I'm sure they will sort it out with a level limitation for gemming gears.

Take an example of upgrading mythics at level 36. If possible to set up some quests for gemming then will make both twinks and high levels happy.

Current situation is:
- low level twinks DO NOT WANT this gem to be out (cuz they fear more armor will destroy class balance)
- high level DO WANT this gem to tackle massive incoming damage.

So, the solution is clear. Find the way on gemming process for high levels only without affecting the twinks.

[Ipoopsy]

The best solution will be:
Limit those gems to be use at 40/41 gears only. High levels indeed need more armor to tackle para and eye gem. But not for twinks. They already been maxed out with gears been provided and armor boost or damage reduction pets like littlebear, Frist, abaddon, singe.

More armor for warriors will be chaotic at levels below 15. It's almost impossible to kill warrior with pure armour and 3 heal skill build. Adding more armor will simply ruin the pvp because nobody going to die and all u see at pvp is just trash talk and bla bla bla.

Lol, that's what I was about to suggest.

Since the gems comes from arena and only lvl 40+ can join, just make it current end game so that way, twink pvp is not affected by any classes being op. Or either make it character bound.

At lvl40+, this gem is just ok, if your willing to sacrifice a few stats.

And if ur a twink and ur complaining, you really have no say in this because this comes from an elite map. You can make suggestions for current end game is fine.

[Ravager]

What does it mean vendor value is 2750? If we liquidate, it sells for 2750 gold?

[Serancha]

While I love hit reduction and agree that it is totally underestimated, having that part of the item non-stackable makes this just another Necropolis Cursed Skull (aka. major flop). If you have more gems,the chances of the hit reduction being applied should increase (this should especially be the case with the cursed skull and it's heal).

Such a ridiculously low chance of proc makes that part of it useless - it's just a sales gimmick and people will complain that it "never" procs until the gem is devalued to obscurity.

[Jirikjurasek]

These gems are only next step to get warriors out of game.
You get more armor to rogues and with 20% hit debuff they will be more untouchable (dodge + hit reduction).
I vote "absolutely no" for these gems now. Released them after class revision

[SacredKnight]

Meh, OK I guess. However I would personally like to see more intuitive gems that really imply a "gemming" strategy.

[epicrrr]

nice, the gem has proc ill be sure to get some :)

[Castellann]

I don't know any rogue that would want to switch out more than one of these gems especially considering rogue packs heal based off of health.

Totally agree. Maximum 1 gem only.

[Haligali]

These gems are only next step to get warriors out of game.
You get more armor to rogues and with 20% hit debuff they will be more untouchable (dodge + hit reduction).
I vote "absolutely no" for these gems now. Released them after class revision

Can you please share your ideas how it will be more useful for warriors then? Whats wrong with people, finally a discussion BEFORE releasing a gem, not AFTER. Fyi, there is no way in hell that i replace my eye and para gems on my rogue with this, it is for warriors.

[Ravager]

Can you please share your ideas how it will be more useful for warriors then? Whats wrong with people, finally a discussion BEFORE releasing a gem, not AFTER. Fyi, there is no way in hell that i replace my eye and para gems on my rogue with this, it is for warriors.

No. The warriors stated in this thread, including myself, don't want it/ don't prefer it.

[epicrrr]

No. The warriors stated in this thread, including myself, don't want it/ don't prefer it.

How about if they change the proc to something else depending on which class wields them would warriors be happy, say:

+20% dmg increase for warriors *default duration from original proc(does not stack)
or 10% base +2% per additional gem as to not discourage future farmers, and user of only buying 1

-20% hit to target for rog*default duration from original proc (does not stack)
or 10% base +2% per additional gem

+15% crit for sorcs *default duration from original proc (does not stack)
8% base + 2% per additional gem

or somewhere along this line, imo im pretty sure game engine can support this.

[Haligali]

No. The warriors stated in this thread, including myself, don't want it/ don't prefer it.

Any other idea beside 'dont want it'?


How about if they change the proc to something else depending on which class wields them would warriors be happy, say:

+20% dmg increase for warriors *default duration from original proc(does not stack)
-20% hit to target for *default duration from original proc rog (does not stack)
+15% crit to sorcs *default duration from original proc (does not stack)

2% chance still does not make a difference, just like on skull gems.

[epicrrr]

2% chance still does not make a difference, just like on skull gems.

probably, 2 - 5% would be safe percentage 7-8% would be OP imo.

[Ravager]

I thought low percentage worked good for classes with DOT for the skull gems (in regards to the activation rate).

Not sure what would make the gem useful to warriors. Rather than scaling armor levels, it might be easier for sts to use damage reduction. Maybe .25% damage reduction. Overall, I don't think warriors are in desperate need of MORE armor. It's sacrificing the stuff they actually need more of and replacing it with something they already have plenty of.

The suggestions from epicrrr sound more like something you would get from an item such as the Planar Pendant but not from a gem.

We could always try just adding a one-time bonus armor for the first gem just like previous recent new gems.

[Serancha]

I thought low percentage worked good for classes with DOT for the skull gems (in regards to the activation rate).

Not sure what would make the gem useful to warriors. Rather than scaling armor levels, it might be easier for sts to use damage reduction. Maybe .25% damage reduction. Overall, I don't think warriors are in desperate need of MORE armor. It's sacrificing the stuff they actually need more of and replacing it with something they already have plenty of.

The suggestions from epicrrr sound more like something you would get from an item such as the Planar Pendant but not from a gem.

We could always try just adding a one-time bonus armor for the first gem just like previous recent new gems.

On the skull gems, each activation of the proc gets you a single heal of 2% of your total hp. Even if this had a 10% chance to occur, it would still make little difference in gameplay. As it is, the most hp a maxed arcane mage can regain with a fireball is 150-200 hp total, if they are super lucky and get 3-4 procs from the dot's.

I haven't had time to look into the details here, but has it been mentioned how long this hit reduction would last per proc, and on how many enemies?

[Abersit]

As a mage, I don’t like the new gems. 15 armor, 60 armor and even 120 armor, considering the respective losses of other characteristics, won’t help to the mage class. Such amount of armor will not protect us while eye gems build at least allows to kill. If grind this idea properly, we may get something good, but simple and obvious way is missing. Anyway I don’t see nothing bad if I will have one more thing worth 15k for sale from arena.
Yh, but the 20% damage/hit chance reduction mean something.
We just hope that the proc chance is hight.

[Xpolosion]

Add armor +dodge

[Carapace]

some good and interesting points. I'll go back to the drawing board and see what I can play with to make it a little more attractive for every class :)

Thanks guys

[Carapace]

So based on feedback I'm hearing I want to propose these changes. The idea behind these gems is to provide a debuff that helps a team in PvE/PvP, and not so much a single character buff. Splitting the procs out based on class gives each class a purpose in having the proc gem as the only way to acquire that debuff is to have that class in the group. Here are some related thoughts based on feedback I read in this thread.

I originally intended for these to be level 40/41 only as was previously mentioned, however that does not work in our current system. As a level 41 person I can socket that gem into a level 15 weapon and sell it on the Consignment Shop and all hell breaks loose, so the more intelligent approach is that of scaling based on level for everyone.

Owning/socketing multiple gems into gear of the same type adding additional stats of relevance does work, but only when it comes to personal statistics. When the debuff is applied to a target it's a different story, and unfortunately does not apply in that form.

With this in mind, I'm proposing these changes:

The INT/DEX/STR stat will remain the same. However the Armor value will appropriately scale starting from (5 +.2*level) on a normal gem, and (8+ .33*level) on a super gem. Remember that the level is attached to the item level. Some examples using Dex.

Level 2:
Normal Gem: 1 Dex, 5 Armor
Super Gem: 1 Dex, 9 Armor

Level 11:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 7 Armor
Super Gem: 2 Dex, 12 Armor

level 21:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 9 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 15 Armor

level 31:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 11 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 18 Armor

Level 41:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 13 Armor
Super Gem: 4 Dex, 22 Armor

The procs per class would be as follows, and now would apply to PvP as well as PvE:

Rogue:
3.5% chance to doing damage (This includes dots) to reduce enemy hit by 15% for 6.5 seconds

Sorcerer:
3.5% chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce chance to Crit by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds

Warrior:
3.5% Chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce armor by 8% for 6.5 seconds

- Note that Maridos reduces armor by 15%, so this keeps him special without giving too much to Warriors. These are powerful debuffs, especially in PvE and obviously useful in PvP.

[davidvilla]

some good and interesting points. I'll go back to the drawing board and see what I can play with to make it a little more attractive for every class :)

Thanks guys

Why not increase the value by 0.20 or something around for each level add up.
Level 1: 0.20 armor + 1 primary stat / super gem of 0.25 armor and 1 primary stat
Level 2: 0.40 armor + 1 primary stat / super gem of 0.50 armor and 1 primary stat
Level 3: 0.60 armor + 1 primary stat / super gem of 0.75 armor and 1 primary stat
And so on...
If this mechanism being implemented I don't think will affect twink zone at all. And high level 40/41 will self gain the armor power based on their gears level.

[Zeus]

So based on feedback I'm hearing I want to propose these changes. The idea behind these gems is to provide a debuff that helps a team in PvE/PvP, and not so much a single character buff. Splitting the procs out based on class gives each class a purpose in having the proc gem as the only way to acquire that debuff is to have that class in the group. Here are some related thoughts based on feedback I read in this thread.

I originally intended for these to be level 40/41 only as was previously mentioned, however that does not work in our current system. As a level 41 person I can socket that gem into a level 15 weapon and sell it on the Consignment Shop and all hell breaks loose, so the more intelligent approach is that of scaling based on level for everyone.

Owning/socketing multiple gems into gear of the same type adding additional stats of relevance does work, but only when it comes to personal statistics. When the debuff is applied to a target it's a different story, and unfortunately does not apply in that form.

With this in mind, I'm proposing these changes:

The INT/DEX/STR stat will remain the same. However the Armor value will appropriately scale starting from (5 +.2*level) on a normal gem, and (8+ .33*level) on a super gem. Remember that the level is attached to the item level. Some examples using Dex.

Level 2:
Normal Gem: 1 Dex, 5 Armor
Super Gem: 1 Dex, 9 Armor

Level 11:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 7 Armor
Super Gem: 2 Dex, 12 Armor

level 21:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 9 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 15 Armor

level 31:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 11 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 18 Armor

Level 41:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 13 Armor
Super Gem: 4 Dex, 22 Armor

The procs per class would be as follows, and now would apply to PvP as well as PvE:

Rogue:
3.5% chance to doing damage (This includes dots) to reduce enemy hit by 15% for 6.5 seconds

Sorcerer:
3.5% chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce chance to Crit by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds

Warrior:
3.5% Chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce armor by 8% for 6.5 seconds

- Note that Maridos reduces armor by 15%, so this keeps him special without giving too much to Warriors. These are powerful debuffs, especially in PvE and obviously useful in PvP.

Maridos reduces armor by 20%, Cara. Most mythic level pets reduce armor by 15% so perhaps change it to a different variable for warrior? Perhaps chance to reduce speed?

[davidvilla]

So based on feedback I'm hearing I want to propose these changes. The idea behind these gems is to provide a debuff that helps a team in PvE/PvP, and not so much a single character buff. Splitting the procs out based on class gives each class a purpose in having the proc gem as the only way to acquire that debuff is to have that class in the group. Here are some related thoughts based on feedback I read in this thread.

I originally intended for these to be level 40/41 only as was previously mentioned, however that does not work in our current system. As a level 41 person I can socket that gem into a level 15 weapon and sell it on the Consignment Shop and all hell breaks loose, so the more intelligent approach is that of scaling based on level for everyone.

Owning/socketing multiple gems into gear of the same type adding additional stats of relevance does work, but only when it comes to personal statistics. When the debuff is applied to a target it's a different story, and unfortunately does not apply in that form.

With this in mind, I'm proposing these changes:

The INT/DEX/STR stat will remain the same. However the Armor value will appropriately scale starting from (5 +.2*level) on a normal gem, and (8+ .33*level) on a super gem. Remember that the level is attached to the item level. Some examples using Dex.

Level 2:
Normal Gem: 1 Dex, 5 Armor
Super Gem: 1 Dex, 9 Armor

Level 11:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 7 Armor
Super Gem: 2 Dex, 12 Armor

level 21:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 9 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 15 Armor

level 31:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 11 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 18 Armor

Level 41:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 13 Armor
Super Gem: 4 Dex, 22 Armor

The procs per class would be as follows, and now would apply to PvP as well as PvE:

Rogue:
3.5% chance to doing damage (This includes dots) to reduce enemy hit by 15% for 6.5 seconds

Sorcerer:
3.5% chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce chance to Crit by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds

Warrior:
3.5% Chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce armor by 8% for 6.5 seconds

- Note that Maridos reduces armor by 15%, so this keeps him special without giving too much to Warriors. These are powerful debuffs, especially in PvE and obviously useful in PvP.

Cara the problem here is NOT the high level. The real problem is twinks DO NOT NEED more armor as it is already out of control. If a team of 4 struggles to kill warrior for 15/20 minutes at level 7/8/9/10 then that is not normal at all. All these new pets with insane stats, insane armor already biased the twink zone in favour of warriors. More armor will simply make them king of the hill. And it's not fun at low level pvp where no body dies for nearly 20/30 minutes.
Recently I made a warrior at level 10 and the armour base I'm seeing is incredible. Around 700 armor for a warrior level 10 is NOT NORMAL. Please do something about it.

[Bellaelda]

Don't really care too much for these... Was really hoping that our many many suggestions to add Para gems to the arena would be heard
:-(

[Ipoopsy]

So based on feedback I'm hearing I want to propose these changes. The idea behind these gems is to provide a debuff that helps a team in PvE/PvP, and not so much a single character buff. Splitting the procs out based on class gives each class a purpose in having the proc gem as the only way to acquire that debuff is to have that class in the group. Here are some related thoughts based on feedback I read in this thread.

I originally intended for these to be level 40/41 only as was previously mentioned, however that does not work in our current system. As a level 41 person I can socket that gem into a level 15 weapon and sell it on the Consignment Shop and all hell breaks loose, so the more intelligent approach is that of scaling based on level for everyone.

This should still be for lvl 40/41 and only be able to gem items with lvl 40+. Again, this is only farmable in Arena which is already only available for those lvl 40+.

Owning/socketing multiple gems into gear of the same type adding additional stats of relevance does work, but only when it comes to personal statistics. When the debuff is applied to a target it's a different story, and unfortunately does not apply in that form.

With this in mind, I'm proposing these changes:

The INT/DEX/STR stat will remain the same. However the Armor value will appropriately scale starting from (5 +.2*level) on a normal gem, and (8+ .33*level) on a super gem. Remember that the level is attached to the item level. Some examples using Dex.

Level 2:
Normal Gem: 1 Dex, 5 Armor
Super Gem: 1 Dex, 9 Armor

Level 11:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 7 Armor
Super Gem: 2 Dex, 12 Armor

level 21:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 9 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 15 Armor

level 31:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 11 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 18 Armor

Level 41:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 13 Armor
Super Gem: 4 Dex, 22 Armor

The procs per class would be as follows, and now would apply to PvP as well as PvE:

Rogue:
3.5% chance to doing damage (This includes dots) to reduce enemy hit by 15% for 6.5 seconds

Sorcerer:
3.5% chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce chance to Crit by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds

Warrior:
3.5% Chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce armor by 8% for 6.5 seconds

- Note that Maridos reduces armor by 15%, so this keeps him special without giving too much to Warriors. These are powerful debuffs, especially in PvE and obviously useful in PvP.

The suggested idea are great, but leave lvl 40 and under out. Twinks are already OP as it is. (Response are in bold)

[Mysteriovs]

I'm so confused to much gems :(

[Ipoopsy]

Any other idea beside 'dont want it'?



2% chance still does not make a difference, just like on skull gems.

Anything new that is about to come out doesn't have to be OVERPOWER. It was meant to be another option (to utilize certain items, armor, helm....etc.) in your characters build.

There's a lot of people who can't have everything Arcane or Mythic. This is just another options for those people.

Why do most people always assumed that it has to be OVERPOWER to use???

[Carapace]

Maridos reduces armor by 20%, Cara. Most mythic level pets reduce armor by 15% so perhaps change it to a different variable for warrior? Perhaps chance to reduce speed?

The question of course is which debuff would be valued enough that it is worth having a warrior in the party moreso than now in the end game? My thought was armor reduction, but I'm open to others. Speed seems a bit lackluster by comparison.

Good correction :)

[Carapace]

The suggested idea are great, but leave lvl 40 and under out. Twinks are already OP as it is. (Response are in bold)

Unfortunately it's a technical restraint as things currently are, so it can't be so

[Zeus]

The question of course is which debuff would be valued enough that it is worth having a warrior in the party moreso than now in the end game? My thought was armor reduction, but I'm open to others. Speed seems a bit lackluster by comparison.

Good correction :)

What about creating an exception to allow this proc to stack with other armor debuffs w/ a limit to stack w/ only the highest debuff and it could only stack once.

[Carapace]

What about creating an exception to allow this proc to stack with other armor debuffs w/ a limit to stack w/ only the highest debuff and it could only stack once.

mmm the only way this could be achieved would be a level bracket break out of flat armor reduced amount which is more than troublesome. IE the idea that when applied it reduced armor 100 points, which could then stack a bunch. Currently not possible the way you have described it I'm afraid.

[davidvilla]

Cara. I know u guys propose something to be good and last long. But about this NEW GEM will completely destroy twink zones. There's already too much armour to handle. If u don't mind then u guys can test yourself about the highest amount of armour one can get at level 10/11/12. As far as I remember 1k armour us d to be op at level 21 but now those 1k armour is coming down to level 12/13. Isn't that a BIT TOO MUCH stat?
From ur proposed gem one can get 120 armour just from gems. So basically a warrior low level will have:
A shield weapon with massive armor
Helm and armor with intensive armor within themselves
Ring like winter or goblin with massive armor boost
Amulet with better stat and armor
Pets like abbadon, little bear, maridos, frist.... With massive armor and stat boost again.
So basically for warriors there r armors everywhere. And then comes the new gem with more armour.
This is going out of controlllllllllll.

[epicrrr]

How about stacking when there are say 3 warrior on team and they all have arena gem, chances are kinda low but it will happen so does the proc of -8% armor stack? (Coming from diff source)

Aoe skills - so the proc works as long as they damage somebody right?

[Jirikjurasek]

Is posible to look again on chance on proc at warrior gem please? Every class has the same chance and include DoT, however warriors don´t have DoTs

[epicrrr]

Cara. I know u guys propose something to be good and last long. But about this NEW GEM will completely destroy twink zones. There's already too much armour to handle. If u don't mind then u guys can test yourself about the highest amount of armour one can get at level 10/11/12. As far as I remember 1k armour us d to be op at level 21 but now those 1k armour is coming down to level 12/13. Isn't that a BIT TOO MUCH stat?
From ur proposed gem one can get 120 armour just from gems. So basically a warrior low level will have:
A shield weapon with massive armor
Helm and armor with intensive armor within themselves
Ring like winter fare or goblin with massive armor boost
Amulet with better stat and armor
Pets like abbadon, little bear, maridos, frist.... With massive armor and stat boost again.
So basically for warriors there r armors everywhere. And then comes the new gem with more armour.
This is going out of controlllllllllll.

Armor is tricky and imo armor does not ruin or wont have big effects on low lvl bracket.


+/- 10-60 armor only decrease or increase your damage by about 4-10. From observation on lvl 13

[davidvilla]

Armor is tricky and imo armor does not ruin or wont have big effects on low lvl bracket.


+/- 10-60 armor only decrease or increase your damage by about 4-10. From observation on lvl 13

Don't u get it warriors already dominating the low level pvp! With more armor being added up it will more more stressful to penetrate those armors and deliver damage
Remember, not all rogues open armor reduction on aim. At level 10 they r just tight with handful of skill points where they can't even open reduction.

[cami]

lol this sucks xD, I dont know what to do because I have a lot of gems in my character: fires, paracelsus, shard, tarlok, curse and eyes. I don't like those gems because 15 armor per 15 slots is same to +225 armor . I prefer grand fire gems or paracelsus gem. And wtf STS? XD what is it the evolution of the gems? How many classes of gems will there in the next 2 years? 25 classes? o.O - HMM Al dictionary of gems WOW

[Ravager]

Maridos reduces armor by 20%, Cara. Most mythic level pets reduce armor by 15% so perhaps change it to a different variable for warrior? Perhaps chance to reduce speed?

Description on Maridos says 15% armor reduction. Reducing speed probably wouldn't help too much. Not sure what would be helpful to replace reduce armor. I don't think speed would be too helpful. Still thinking.

[Blissfulgod]

lol this sucks xD, I dont know what to do because I have a lot of gems in my character: fires, paracelsus, shard, tarlok, curse and eyes. I don't like those gems because 15 armor per 15 slots is same to +225 armor . I prefer grand fire gems or paracelsus gem. And wtf STS? XD what is it the evolution of the gems? How many classes of gems will there in the next 2 years? 25 classes? o.O - HMM Al dictionary of gems WOW

Think about it differently. The new gems only add more options. Using them is not compulsory. The introduction of new gems introduces an exciting new element to the game. Instead of players of the same class being copies of one another, there are now innumerable combinations of gems and armor types. I can't wait to see what specialized builds I can cook up.

The increased complexity seems to be causing you severe distress. I am here to reassure you... You have the freedom to use normal gems on all of your gear so you aren't too overwhelmed. It will be ok.

[Zeus]

Description on Maridos says 15% armor reduction. Reducing speed probably wouldn't help too much. Not sure what would be helpful to replace reduce armor. I don't think speed would be too helpful. Still thinking.

Oh, I thought Cara was referring to the passive. My bad!

What about chance to increase crit?


Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using Tapatalk

[Kakashis]

that can potentially add more armor to the twinks than ever seen before! At endgame it'll be barely noticable

[Ravager]

Oh, I thought Cara was referring to the passive. My bad!

What about chance to increase crit?


Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using Tapatalk

I know Carapace wants to make it a debuff gem but can't think of anything useful for warrior that hasn't been used. I can think of plenty of buff proc's on the other hand. Crit would be one of them, yes. DR reduction, speed, crit, dmg increase, strength buff, stun/debuff removal, hp regen. All those would be decent candidates if it were a buff. And if it were not a buff/debuff gem, maybe it'd be nice to have a vortex pull to the warrior as the proc instead. Warriors trying to aggro in pve and in pvp, warriors trying to pull opponents to them to absorb dmg for the team anyways.

[Carapace]

Cara. I know u guys propose something to be good and last long. But about this NEW GEM will completely destroy twink zones. There's already too much armour to handle. If u don't mind then u guys can test yourself about the highest amount of armour one can get at level 10/11/12. As far as I remember 1k armour us d to be op at level 21 but now those 1k armour is coming down to level 12/13. Isn't that a BIT TOO MUCH stat?
From ur proposed gem one can get 120 armour just from gems. So basically a warrior low level will have:
A shield weapon with massive armor
Helm and armor with intensive armor within themselves
Ring like winter or goblin with massive armor boost
Amulet with better stat and armor
Pets like abbadon, little bear, maridos, frist.... With massive armor and stat boost again.
So basically for warriors there r armors everywhere. And then comes the new gem with more armour.
This is going out of controlllllllllll.

Is this based on the initial post, or the revised post? The amount of armor accrued at a lower level would be pretty low given the potential rarity of the gem and amount of them required to have an effect. At level 13 it would add 8 or 12 armor per gem, a pretty minuscule amount of damage reduction comparatively. 15 of these in a worst case would be 120 - 180 armor on a fully geared legendary+ player would be about 8-12% reduction. Less than a single piece of gear, but that's a lot of primary stat to relinquish.

As mentioned above the hope is that this provides additional choices for players, and not a "must have" go to for every slot in their gear.

[Ardbeg]

Description on Maridos says 15% armor reduction. Reducing speed probably wouldn't help too much. Not sure what would be helpful to replace reduce armor. I don't think speed would be too helpful. Still thinking.

how about a fun debuff like draining mana...

[Carapace]

how about a fun debuff like draining mana...

This would be interesting, but PvP only

[Ardbeg]

This would be interesting, but PvP only

yes, maybe too short overall, but could help counter para gems on budget and open another defense tactic against rogues especially. something worthy to toy around with imho.

[Carapace]

the idea of 3.5% chance to reduce armor 8%, combined with 5% Mana damage for Warriors could be something

[Raregem]

Rogues are already drained on mana as it is, we run out the fastest. The 5% mana drain could be killer in pvp...literally especially if you are facing multiple warriors with the gem. I am not a fan of a mana drain I'd rather loss hp and have a chance to recover with packs in pvp. There is no way to counter the mana.

So I propose a 5% health drain, this could be used in pve and pvp.

[Xpolosion]

Just make it a full out defensive gem add a little dodge too

[Ardbeg]

5% hp drain on a 4k hp rogue would mean 200 hp. nothing. 5% mana drain on proc would mean around one aimed shot less, which could help to survive the opposing party a lot. that s hardly comparable in effect. lets not forget rogues have very high dmg skills with low cd, that s the main reason for their mana thirst. a mana drain proc could help balance the dmg output a bit. just food for thoughts.

[will0]

how about a fun debuff like draining mana...

slow down on Maridos does nothing nor effective , it should have 10-15% stun as suggested earlier (works against any class). Drain mana is only effective for rogue not against warrior

[Raregem]

5% hp drain on a 4k hp rogue would mean 200 hp. nothing. 5% mana drain on proc would mean around one aimed shot less, which could help to survive the opposing party a lot. that s hardly comparable in effect. lets not forget rogues have very high dmg skills with low cd, that s the main reason for their mana thirst. a mana drain proc could help balance the dmg output a bit. just food for thoughts.

My main concern is when you are facing multiple warriors in pvp (often you will see 3 on a side bc pve is just a joke right now for a warrior) so then you're looking at a significant loss if there are multiple procs. If this does get implemented there needs to be some kind of immunity and no stacking of the proc. If you did get hit with 5% multiple times in a row you are looking at crippling results.

[Iucian]

This would be interesting, but PvP only

Um no lol rogues already have the crappiest mana of all classes. Mages have unlimited mana and warriors have VB. Rogues rely on smart mana usage... I suggest if u add the mana sap to any gems,then rogues need mana regeneration on shadow veil! That way we could counter such a gem.
When a rogue enters her veil she and her allies get an armor dmg and what not. Well adding a 20-25 mana regen per tic when inside veil would be good enough( lvl 41)..heck stack that with pet/gear mana per sec for more mana.there are soooo many builds one could make already why not add another element.( hey and that could be another event gem mana/hp regeneration rate gem :P )

[Ardbeg]

My main concern is when you are facing multiple warriors in pvp (often you will see 3 on a side bc pve is just a joke right now for a warrior) so then you're looking at a significant loss if there are multiple procs. If this does get implemented there needs to be some kind of immunity and no stacking of the proc. If you did get hit with 5% multiple times in a row you are looking at crippling results.

more then two warriors in one team is a crying shame. i completely agree to your point. but wouldn t it be interesting to have a counter against too many para gems because people neglected their mana needs? most players are frustrated with gear gap and class imbalances, and this could help steer things a bit in the right direction *if carefully balanced*, that s why the call for discussion.

[Spell]

Mana sapping gem ? Zzzz then add a counter gem with mana regeneration !

[famousfame]

Sorry skipped straight to comment after reading , apologies if I'm repeating. Gem idea is not good at all I wouldn't want to swap none of my gems for this, at moment process of getting grand is pretty diabolical and +4str and 15armour is worthless, to make this gem appealing add HP or dmg, maybe +5str 5%hp 5%armour

"what goes up will come down"

[famousfame]

Sorry skipped straight to comment after reading , apologies if I'm repeating. Gem idea is not good at all I wouldn't want to swap none of my gems for this, at moment process of getting grand is pretty diabolical and +4str and 15armour is worthless, to make this gem appealing add HP or dmg, maybe +5str 5%hp 5%armour

"what goes up will come down"
If 5% too much then 3%

"what goes up will come down"

[Raregem]

more then two warriors in one team is a crying shame. i completely agree to your point. but wouldn t it be interesting to have a counter against too many para gems because people neglected their mana needs? most players are frustrated with gear gap and class imbalances, and this could help steer things a bit in the right direction *if carefully balanced*, that s why the call for discussion.

I think it would be interesting, and it's definitely an idea. There are still a lot of players without para gems though that try to get into pvp so you're right it would have to be carefully balanced. It would probably be worse for twinks than endgame. Maybe the rogue gem could have a counter effect for an additional proc? Maybe 2.5% regain so the war gem still does some damage if the rogues procs.

Overall if there is an immunity and no stacking rogues probably don't need the counter because you're right it's about an aimed shot. I am at 1865 mana and an aimed shot takes 6% of it. Packs take 5% so it wouldn't be too bad but may help with the rogue situation a little. Rogues are over powered atm.

I think stacking would be the biggest issue even if you're only facing two wars say one gets lucky procs twice so it stacks 10% 186 mana loss(using my 1865 mana as a base) and the other war procs right after for another 93 mana loss you'd be in a mess. This may never happen and I may be over thinking it, you never can tell how something will work until it has been implemented.

[Zeus]

As long as pet damage does not count as a chance to proc the pet, I do not see an issue with this. Warriors already have to chase after rogues as it is. However, if that is going to happen, then as a rogue I would also appreciate something that would give me a PvP benefit as well. Else, these gems are going to be looking at a very one-sided demand. Perhaps..5% hp reduction on warrior?

[Hhhohstapler]

Since you already stated that you find it interesting to create a buff/debuff gem,how about something really new? For example,on taking damage chance to proc stun immunity for (idk) 10 seconds...
I think all classes would benefit from those... Both pvp and pve. With so many new pets who can stun you,with warriors who stun on ss,that would be a life-saver. And mages stun with those lightnings,so I suppose it would make pvp bit more fun. And pve as well. If we encounter those big tindirin guys who has to stun you no matter which class are you,it would save your "life" and some pots for warriors. Adding armor sounds to me like a bad idea. I tried twinking,but those low level warriors are already too powerful... Well,any thoughts about this one?

[davidvilla]

Is this based on the initial post, or the revised post? The amount of armor accrued at a lower level would be pretty low given the potential rarity of the gem and amount of them required to have an effect. At level 13 it would add 8 or 12 armor per gem, a pretty minuscule amount of damage reduction comparatively. 15 of these in a worst case would be 120 - 180 armor on a fully geared legendary+ player would be about 8-12% reduction. Less than a single piece of gear, but that's a lot of primary stat to relinquish.

As mentioned above the hope is that this provides additional choices for players, and not a "must have" go to for every slot in their gear.

Cara u didn't get the twink opinion on this. As a new level 10 warrior twink. Im seeing the opness of warriors Atlow level. The current armor and hp presence is already at peak And it's like a full packaged hulk. Basically at this current time it requires 3/4 players to bring 1 super tank armor based warrior down.
THIS IS UNREAL. It's super hard to penetrate the 700 around armor at such low levels.

From the twink perspective WE DO NOT WANTANY MORE ARMORS at low level. If u guys don't belive me then please test andpoint Me out if I'm wrong.

[macquin]

Lol, many crying in low lvl twink warrior got so many armor and hard to kill.
Now theres new armor gem hmmm you guys really listning or you ignore us in low lvl pvp. Or this is a joke?
If this release im done in other class lets make all warrior and be immortal in pvp!

[davidvilla]

What's the meaning of pvp if nobody going to die? I kindly request to devs team,
Please lock those gems to level 40/41 only.

[Overweightank]

Hello everyone!

Inbound in the future is a new Arena Gem for players to farm for. The primary idea behind these gems is to give players something in between the Arcane Fossil, and the Undead Vials, mixed in with the Gladiator gear to pursue. There will be three flavors of this gem, one for each primary stat (DEX, INT, STR).

In order to prevent scamming and other issues associated with gems/socketing/selling items, these gems have been scaled in such a way that everyone can use it without breaking PvP from the Armor amount at lower levels. The armor will certainly help however, but it will take some time and some coin to acquire. Note that the hit reduction on enemy only applies in PvE.

Here's a quick breakdown of what the gems are in there current form:

EDIT: Current iteration here: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?206318-Arena-Chest-Gem-Unveil-Discussion&p=2034518&viewfull=1#post2034518

Base Gems:
8 Armor, +INT (Scaled based on item level), and chance on do damage to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target
8 Armor, +STR (Scaled based on item level), and chance on do damage to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target
8 Armor, +DEX (Scaled based on item level), and chance on do damage to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target

Grand Gems:
15 Armor, +INT (Scaled based on item level with supergem bonus), and a chance on attack to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target
15 Armor, +STR (Scaled based on item level with supergem bonus), and a chance on attack to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target
15 Armor, +DEX (Scaled based on item level with supergem bonus), and a chance on attack to apply a 20% hit reduction debuff on the target

And here's a breakdown of important aspects related to these gems:


The armor bonus does stack with multiple gems
The chance to proc hit reduction debuff on attack ability does not stack, or benefit from multiple arena gems. This currently has a 2% chance on doing damage to go off
The chance to receive a super gem is the same as other gems
The Supergem bonus for the stat portion of the gem will be a bit lower than a pure Blood, Glacial, or Fire gem. Not a lot, but enough to dissuade a potentially broken scenario of all gem slots taken up by these gems.
Arena Gems can be traded and stashed
Their vendor value is 2750 Gold
Only available from Elite Arena Master Chests
No crafting is required, the actual gem will drop and be of Legendary quality
Don't underestimate the value of reduced chance to hit in PvE!


Here’s how the Gem compares against its basic glacial, blood, and fire gem counterparts throughout some sampling of levels.

Level 02:
117420

Level 11:
117421

Level 21:
117503

Level 31:
117504

Level 41:
117505

Thoughts? Concerns?

It's nice I guess, Just dont make this gem really hard to get. Because then it will be useless. if its just easy enough to get, then I guess its good idea. I was hoping for an armor gem, and now I got one. Ty sts i love it personally <3

[epicrrr]

Don't u get it warriors already dominating the low level pvp! With more armor being added up it will more more stressful to penetrate those armors and deliver damage
Remember, not all rogues open armor reduction on aim. At level 10 they r just tight with handful of skill points where they can't even open reduction.

Calm down, armor is not the only factor on why anyone is hard to drop at lvl 10 or level below 15 +30 armor say from 3 arena gems does not have a huge impact.

As mentioned not all will use a full 10 arena gem.


the idea of 3.5% chance to reduce armor 8%, combined with 5% Mana damage for Warriors could be something

A dual proc seems to be good with mythic rarity gem; arena gems is of legendary rarity should stick to 1 proc, and lets not forget this gems not to appease warriors its for the whole game.

[extrapayah]

2% chance is ridiculously too small for something that can't be stacked -_- ...
at least 10% chance is reasonable, but no more than 20%

[Haligali]

So based on feedback I'm hearing I want to propose these changes. The idea behind these gems is to provide a debuff that helps a team in PvE/PvP, and not so much a single character buff. Splitting the procs out based on class gives each class a purpose in having the proc gem as the only way to acquire that debuff is to have that class in the group. Here are some related thoughts based on feedback I read in this thread.

I originally intended for these to be level 40/41 only as was previously mentioned, however that does not work in our current system. As a level 41 person I can socket that gem into a level 15 weapon and sell it on the Consignment Shop and all hell breaks loose, so the more intelligent approach is that of scaling based on level for everyone.

Owning/socketing multiple gems into gear of the same type adding additional stats of relevance does work, but only when it comes to personal statistics. When the debuff is applied to a target it's a different story, and unfortunately does not apply in that form.

With this in mind, I'm proposing these changes:

The INT/DEX/STR stat will remain the same. However the Armor value will appropriately scale starting from (5 +.2*level) on a normal gem, and (8+ .33*level) on a super gem. Remember that the level is attached to the item level. Some examples using Dex.

Level 2:
Normal Gem: 1 Dex, 5 Armor
Super Gem: 1 Dex, 9 Armor

Level 11:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 7 Armor
Super Gem: 2 Dex, 12 Armor

level 21:
Normal Gem: 2 Dex, 9 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 15 Armor

level 31:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 11 Armor
Super Gem: 3 Dex, 18 Armor

Level 41:
Normal Gem: 3 Dex, 13 Armor
Super Gem: 4 Dex, 22 Armor

The procs per class would be as follows, and now would apply to PvP as well as PvE:

Rogue:
3.5% chance to doing damage (This includes dots) to reduce enemy hit by 15% for 6.5 seconds

Sorcerer:
3.5% chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce chance to Crit by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds

Warrior:
3.5% Chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce armor by 8% for 6.5 seconds

- Note that Maridos reduces armor by 15%, so this keeps him special without giving too much to Warriors. These are powerful debuffs, especially in PvE and obviously useful in PvP.

This is still too strong on low lvls, if 10 grand armor gems are used on lvl8, then its +100 armor. Give them 0 primary, or much much less armor.

[Energizeric]

I've been absent from this conversation so far, but here are my thoughts on the new gem:

Cara: you need to make the scaling more steep, i.e. lower armor amounts at low levels and higher at high levels. And yes, I'm looking at the REVISED numbers, not the original.

Keep this in mind... At lower levels, PvP fights tend to take too long because armor amounts are too high. That is mostly due to the pet happiness bonus not scaling. Yet at higher levels, we have the exact opposite issue..... not enough armor. PvP fights there last 5 seconds and you can die from a single hit sometimes.

So therefore, how about some more extreme scaling. Keep the middle levels (20-30) the same, but make the lower levels have less armor and the higher levels have more armor.

I can tell you as a level 10 mage with 5 para gems (137 damage), there are warriors in my guild who I cannot kill if they just stand there and don't fight back and keep healing themselves with HOR. That is already a serious issue, and one which we would like to see addressed. But giving warriors a means to add even more armor will just totally break pvp at these levels.

[Haligali]

Don't u get it warriors already dominating the low level pvp! With more armor being added up it will more more stressful to penetrate those armors and deliver damage
Remember, not all rogues open armor reduction on aim. At level 10 they r just tight with handful of skill points where they can't even open reduction.

What about this

118735

[Energizeric]

Yes, that's perfect Hali

[Ardbeg]

the idea of 3.5% chance to reduce armor 8%, combined with 5% Mana damage for Warriors could be something

any thoughts of the idea of adding a mana drain proc?
i think it s overlooked a bit in the discussion.

[extrapayah]

i suggest:
1. 15% chance for 15% armor reduction for normal attack, or
2. 15% chance for 10% damage reduction for normal attack (rare debuff), or
3. 5% lifesteal for every normal attack, or
4. 5% manadrain for every normal attack
adding proc to skill is kinda unfair for warrior who has long cooldown on most skills, and i don't know about other but, i refrain greatly from adding DoT to my skill set, because its ridiculous aggro-gain

[davidvilla]

What about this

118735

That is indeed pretty good scaling. Thank u hali for ur effort. If possible to keep 0 primary stat till level 10 will be more beautiful. And start 1 stat from 11 and onwards.

NOTE TO STS DEVS TEAM:
Please reconsider gears and pets armor at low levels along with the 3 heals skill build. Immortal tanks is not that we wanted to see.

[davidvilla]

I've been absent from this conversation so far, but here are my thoughts on the new gem:

Cara: you need to make the scaling more steep, i.e. lower armor amounts at low levels and higher at high levels. And yes, I'm looking at the REVISED numbers, not the original.

Keep this in mind... At lower levels, PvP fights tend to take too long because armor amounts are too high. That is mostly due to the pet happiness bonus not scaling. Yet at higher levels, we have the exact opposite issue..... not enough armor. PvP fights there last 5 seconds and you can die from a single hit sometimes.

So therefore, how about some more extreme scaling. Keep the middle levels (20-30) the same, but make the lower levels have less armor and the higher levels have more armor.

I can tell you as a level 10 mage with 5 para gems (137 damage), there are warriors in my guild who I cannot kill if they just stand there and don't fight back and keep healing themselves with HOR. That is already a serious issue, and one which we would like to see addressed. But giving warriors a means to add even more armor will just totally break pvp at these levels.

Thank you bro for ur great words. True fact indeed warriors r very over powered at low levels. The amount of heals, armour is simply biased to be god of ctf. Like yesterday we were trying to kill a warrior with juggernaut and expedition shiled. Took around 25 minutes for 3 of us with 1 rogue to bring him down.
Those heals:
Juggernaut around 500
Vengence around 450
Horn of renew around 220 per tick
Where the armor around 700 doesn't even allow crit penetrate and deliver damage. And the annoying part is he just kept running around from cornors to cornors.
I didn't get this. Is this a pvp or a marathon?
We got tired n stopped for a while. Then he fires back his words" common boys tired already?"
I nearly broke my device on rage.

[cyrusrevange]

Thank you so much, this is the greatest update ever. very nice

Only thing is:
1. Armor stat should be increased.
2. Chance to proc hit reduction debuff on attack should be increased.



This is a gem like other gems, some ppl said it should be limited to l40/l41 lol thats so funny why other gems are not limited to l40 / l41 and only this should be and if anyone not interested can simply sell it in auction for some gold :) and some said how to bring down 2 warrior in a team if they use this lol why not talking about how to tank in front of 4 full arcane rogue with para& syrilax gems. Better stop complaining, rogues are already overpowered and is really hard to tank in front of full para rogues.( better say impossible)

We love to see more armor based gem into game rather than bunch of crit and damage gem. This gem and more armor based gems are really good for elite maps as well.

[Haligali]

That is indeed pretty good scaling. Thank u hali for ur effort. If possible to keep 0 primary stat till level 10 will be more beautiful. And start 1 stat from 11 and onwards.

NOTE TO STS DEVS TEAM:
Please reconsider gears and pets armor at low levels along with the 3 heals skill build. Immortal tanks is not that we wanted to see.

I adjusted the numbers to the original gem stats, -1 on normal and -2 on grand. If someone put 10 grand arena gem on lvl10, then its +50 armor, but -20 str -200hp compared to grand blood, thats a huge loss, hopefully seems less logical to use at this level.

[macquin]

Nice work Hali I may call you king of gems now.

[Haligali]

1. Armor stat should be increased.

Hm, maybe could be 0.3*item lvl on normal and 0.6*item lvl on grand, if you want more. That means 6 armor on lvl10, just 1 more than in the example, but 24 armor on lvl40.

[cyrusrevange]

Hm, maybe could be 0.3*item lvl on normal and 0.6*item lvl on grand, if you want more. That means 6 armor on lvl10, just 1 more than in the example, but 24 armor on lvl40.

This armor value still very low, I have full arcane rogue and I know how op they are. I can take down any warrior less than 20 sec and for mages hmmm better we don't talk about that. We all know how easy it is for rogue to kill sorcerer. I only use 6 para and 4 eye into my rogues and I know this armor value for warrior or perhaps mage is not enough at all.

[davidvilla]

We r complaining as it has direct relation to twink pvp destruction at low level. According to your so called more armour theory u want a level 10/11 with 1000 armor?
Dude, pvp is where somebody supposed to kill and somebody supposed to die. Ur proposed concept of maxed out armor will be helpful at high level but it's a disaster at low level.
We all have agreed to a point that high levels need more armor and low levels doesn't need much armor. Limiting the armor gain for low level is a necessity.

[davidvilla]

I adjusted the numbers to the original gem stats, -1 on normal and -2 on grand. If someone put 10 grand arena gem on lvl10, then its +50 armor, but -20 str -200hp compared to grand blood, thats a huge loss, hopefully seems less logical to use at this level.

Yes there has to be give and take for balance. I completely agree bro.

[Haligali]

This armor value still very low, I have full arcane rogue and I know how op they are. I can take down any warrior less than 20 sec and for mages hmmm better we don't talk about that. We all know how easy it is for rogue to kill sorcerer. I only use 6 para and 4 eye into my rogues and I know this armor value for warrior or perhaps mage is not enough at all.

How you make more armor on lvl40 without too much increase on lower lvls then? An end game warrior have 13+ gem slot, so with 10 grand arena gem, thats 200 or 240 more armor with a loss of 200 hp, hp does not matter much at end game so a more wise choice than for a twink.

[Astride]

This armor value still very low, I have full arcane rogue and I know how op they are. I can take down any warrior less than 20 sec and for mages hmmm better we don't talk about that. We all know how easy it is for rogue to kill sorcerer. I only use 6 para and 4 eye into my rogues and I know this armor value for warrior or perhaps mage is not enough at all.
Again there are probably few other rogues maxgeared like you.
The gems must be tweaked to meet the best but also most balanced perfomance possible from every point of view.

[cyrusrevange]

We r complaining as it has direct relation to twink pvp destruction at low level. According to your so called more armour theory u want a level 10/11 with 1000 armor?
Dude, pvp is where somebody supposed to kill and somebody supposed to die. Ur proposed concept of maxed out armor will be helpful at high level but it's a disaster at low level.
We all have agreed to a point that high levels need more armor and low levels doesn't need much armor. Limiting the armor gain for low level is a necessity.

Who says low levels don't need armor, lol It must be fair at all levels. I think you'r a rogue at low level with many ctf kills probably trying to get 100k ctf kill fast hehehe lol. Armor should be increased at all levels. now we don't have a balanced pvp at all.I hope sts will make more armor gems at least more balanced and probably less dummy farming for low levels.( Talking about dummy farming is good to look at those low levels how they farming their other accounts. They come with different account and start farming all below l10 especially l2/3. Making some naked mage with the name of leaderboard lol and farming. Hope one day this dummy farming will be stopped and people get what they really owned not easily by dummy farming)

How come low levels rogues can use para and eye gem but other classes can't use armor gems!!!!

[cyrusrevange]

How you make more armor on lvl40 without too much increase on lower lvls then? An end game warrior have 13+ gem slot, so with 10 grand arena gem, thats 200 or 240 more armor with a loss of 200 hp, hp does not matter much at end game so a more wise choice than for a twink.

Armor should be increased on all levels, those complaining are low level pvpers (rogues) trying to get to lb fast or get highest ctf kill with nice kdr, either one of them, why low levels should not have armor????? I don't see any reason. pvp must be balanced on all levels, low levels must have longer lasting because it is called twink, so those rogues looking fast kill can forget the nice kdr and move to end game.( they still op at any level)

[cyrusrevange]

Again there are probably few other rogues maxgeared like you.
The gems must be tweaked to meet the best but also most balanced perfomance possible from every point of view.

I don't enjoy playing with my rogue TBH cause I know is not a fair fight.

[Excuses]

the idea of 3.5% chance to reduce armor 8%, combined with 5% Mana damage for Warriors could be something

I really love this idea(this could be annoying tho lol) . Some of you think about 1vs1 only but pvp is 4vs4 and 5vs5. And if this applies to other team it's gonna change a lot of things.
Even this could be for all class, making only one kind of gem that gives primary stats too.

One of the best way to kill warrior in vs is drain their mana. (especially in twink, icescale has no mana) This should be good for all class not just for warrior.


This is out of subject, but I really hope warrior gears have dmg/int and armor/dex. Not dmg/dex and armor/int. This is kind of nonsense.

[Haligali]

Armor should be increased on all levels, those complaining are low level pvpers (rogues) trying to get to lb fast or get highest ctf kill with nice kdr, either one of them, why low levels should not have armor????? I don't see any reason. pvp must be balanced on all levels, low levels must have longer lasting because it is called twink, so those rogues looking fast kill can forget the nice kdr and move to end game.( they still op at any level)

If thats what you want. I quit my lvl7 twink, so i dont care if you kill each other now hours long instead of 30 minute. Thb, im an unexperienced/total noob warrior, but my lvl7 got 10:1 kdr, the few times i died when 3 or more lvl8-9 ganged me.

[davidvilla]

Who says low levels don't need armor, lol It must be fair at all levels. I'm sure you'r a rogue at low level with many ctf kills probably trying to get 100k ctf kill fast hehehe lol. Armor should be increased at all levels. now we don't have a balanced pvp at all.I hope sts will make more armor gems at least more balanced and probably less dummy farming for low levels.( Talking about dummy farming is good to look at those low levels how they farming their other accounts. They come with different account and start farming all below l10 especially l2/3. Making some naked mage with the name of leaderboard lol and farming. Hope one day this dummy farming will be stopped and people get what they really owned not easily by dummy farming)

How come low levels rogues can use para and eye gem but other classes can't use armor gems!!!!

Dude do even have any idea what u r talking about or ur just using ur hypothetical non sense assumption. Don't mix total irreverent topic in terms of gem and class balance. Ur just making a total drama over here for nothing.

If u know how to read and write then scroll up my previous post where u will find I have clearly mentioned I started a twink warrior and u come here with ur nonsense crap accusing me a dummy farmer and being a rogue.

Now my question for u is. " R u really normal or else?"

[davidvilla]

Armor should be increased on all levels, those complaining are low level pvpers (rogues) trying to get to lb fast or get highest ctf kill with nice kdr, either one of them, why low levels should not have armor????? I don't see any reason. pvp must be balanced on all levels, low levels must have longer lasting because it is called twink, so those rogues looking fast kill can forget the nice kdr and move to end game.( they still op at any level)

So according to ur 10 yr old like logic level 10s n below should have 1k armor ?
And moving with the propotional value of 1k armor level 40/41 should be aiming at 4k armour?

Lmfaoo.
Man ur funny,

[Jazzi]

I think, that even the original 20% hit reduction was pretty great, however the proc chance is pretty low. I have one grand skull gem in my gear on my rogue and, please correct me if I am wrong, the life drain chance on a grand one is 2.5% and I have never seen it proc. Since this discussion has started I have been paying extra attention, to whether it procs or not (I play on pc with 27 inch screen) and in my last 31 t3 runs not a single visible proc. I very much doubt that 3.5% (1%more) would be much different.

Thank you very much for considering this.

[Ravager]

Best scenario for most warriors is probably going to be just 1 grand gem of these arena gems. Just to have for the proc. Depending on the proc if its worth it too. Bad to sacrifice hp,dmg,bonus dmg for armor.

[cyrusrevange]

Dude do even have any idea what u r talking about or ur just using ur hypothetical non sense assumption. Don't mix total irreverent topic in terms of gem and class balance. Ur just making a total drama over here for nothing.

If u know how to read and write then scroll up my previous post where u will find I have clearly mentioned I started a twink warrior and u come here with ur nonsense crap accusing me a dummy farmer and being a rogue.

Now my question for u is. " R u really normal or else?"

I better know than you how to read and write and I better know about gems/stat/ and classes of this game. Those ppl complaining about this update are rogue because I know every class very well. This armor value is not enough and should be increased. Compare to the para and eye gem which made rogues more op we still need more armor gems and later maybe some more skill to everyone class for deff purpose.

[cyrusrevange]

So according to ur 10 yr old like logic level 10s n below should have 1k armor ?
And moving with the propotional value of 1k armor level 40/41 should be aiming at 4k armour?

Lmfaoo.
Man ur funny,

It's much better if we respect other ppl( I'm not 10 years old btw) and try to play in more decent way rather than trying to get in lb fast or maybe get the highest ctf kill with nice kdr lol :)

Armor value should be increased

[cyrusrevange]

If thats what you want. I quit my lvl7 twink, so i dont care if you kill each other now hours long instead of 30 minute. Thb, im an unexperienced/total noob warrior, but my lvl7 got 10:1 kdr, the few times i died when 3 or more lvl8-9 ganged me.

Lol nice kdr :)

[cyrusrevange]

Dude do even have any idea what u r talking about or ur just using ur hypothetical non sense assumption. Don't mix total irreverent topic in terms of gem and class balance. Ur just making a total drama over here for nothing.

If u know how to read and write then scroll up my previous post where u will find I have clearly mentioned I started a twink warrior and u come here with ur nonsense crap accusing me a dummy farmer and being a rogue.

Now my question for u is. " R u really normal or else?"

If you have any questions regarding skills/stats/classes/gems you can email me. I would be glad to teach you :)

[Energizeric]

If you have any questions regarding skills/stats/classes/gems you can email me. I would be glad to teach you :)

I have a question....

I have a level 10 twink sorcerer with all max gear and 5 para gems with 137 damage. It is the most damage of any level 10 that I am aware of, and certainly the most in my guild Red Legion. Yet there are warriors in my guild who I cannot kill even if they just stand there and heal and don't even fight back. They will just keep healing faster than I can inflict damage. So what am I doing wrong? I'm using all the max damage skills.... Ice, Lightning, Time Shift..... I've tried all different kinds of builds, and nothing works. Now you are suggesting that they should have even more armor.

And just so you understand how OP I am at this level, when I run events I can solo even the toughest boss (like Syrillax) inside of 30 seconds. I can run the Gauntlet solo in about 2 1/2 minutes. Yet I cannot kill some warriors with max gear.

[Haligali]

Best scenario for most warriors is probably going to be just 1 grand gem of these arena gems. Just to have for the proc. Depending on the proc if its worth it too. Bad to sacrifice hp,dmg,bonus dmg for armor.

Then which impress you? The first one was -1 primary, 0.25*item lvl on normal -2 primary, 0.5* item lvl on grand.

This is normal: -1 primary 0.3*item lvl; grand: -2 primary, 0.6*item lvl:
119044

normal: -1 primary 0.25*item lvl; grand: -1 primary, 0.5*item lvl:
119047

normal: -1 primary 0.3*item lvl; grand: -1 primary, 0.6*item lvl:
119048

[Carapace]

Very nice. I'm inclined to agree with the "normal: -1 primary 0.3*item lvl; grand: -2 primary, 0.6*item lvl" iteration because the reality is a lot of players will be tempted to use a lot of these games with the higher primary stats, enough to make it the "go to" gem against the original gems and it should be a meaningful choice.

Thanks for the feedback in all regards

[Ravager]

Then which impress you? The first one was -1 primary, 0.25*item lvl on normal -2 primary, 0.5* item lvl on grand.

This is normal: -1 primary 0.3*item lvl; grand: -2 primary, 0.6*item lvl:
119044

normal: -1 primary 0.25*item lvl; grand: -1 primary, 0.5*item lvl:
119047

normal: -1 primary 0.3*item lvl; grand: -1 primary, 0.6*item lvl:
119048

Minimizing the strength loss is the only decent way for a warrior to use it. For me, I'm not looking for a defensive gem. Most warriors I know look for offense rather than defense.

41 Bonesaw > 41 Bulwark
Grand Blood Gems > Grand Life Gems
Grand Blood Gems > Enchanted Eye of Syrrilax

Those are my opinions and usually what I recommend when people ask me. Once you reach a certain armor level for warrior in PVP to survive an aimshot while jugg'd or for PVE to survive boss red zones, you don't need more armor at all.

I don't think there is a trade-off combination that is good for warrior without making the gem too strong. For 41, rage gems are 3/2 and better than normal gems 3. I would like at least to see 3 + (some armor value) for normal arena gems. I wouldn't grand the gem because I'll reserve grand slots for grand blood gems just like I use normal rage gems while crafting daily currently.

[Ravager]

Also, the idea of doing mana damage or mana drain of 5% shouldn't be too bad especially since the proc chance is low. When using an arcane ring, I believe the ring is supposed to proc 2% mana regen at a low chance. This is hardly noticable but is probably there.

[macquin]

Thanks Cara we hope this is the stat given in lower lvl. We dont need more armor in lower level. :)
Can you please review warrior skills in lower lvl too +50 str vb is a no no.

[cyrusrevange]

I have a question....

I have a level 10 twink sorcerer with all max gear and 5 para gems with 137 damage. It is the most damage of any level 10 that I am aware of, and certainly the most in my guild Red Legion. Yet there are warriors in my guild who I cannot kill even if they just stand there and heal and don't even fight back. They will just keep healing faster than I can inflict damage. So what am I doing wrong? I'm using all the max damage skills.... Ice, Lightning, Time Shift..... I've tried all different kinds of builds, and nothing works. Now you are suggesting that they should have even more armor.

And just so you understand how OP I am at this level, when I run events I can solo even the toughest boss (like Syrillax) inside of 30 seconds. I can run the Gauntlet solo in about 2 1/2 minutes. Yet I cannot kill some warriors with max gear.

Armor is for all class, they all can use. hmmm you only compare yourself to warrior and not to rogues. You have to accept some classes are weaker than another. You can kill or deff against a rogue same op as yourself? ofc no, so armor is not only for warrior. Those who know how to build classes will use very well of this gem.

[Kriticality]

Armor is for all class, they all can use. hmmm you only compare yourself to warrior and not to rogues. You have to accept some classes are weaker than another. You can last against a rogue same op as yourself? ofc no, so armor is not only for warrior. Those who know how to build classes will use very well of this gem.

Seems like you're only comparing to rogue and not mage. If anything, the mage armor gem should be buffed to offer higher armor. They would have to sacrifice some of that huge damage, but could be an opportunity to add some more survivability to them. The twinks are making a point about lower level pvp. If what they are saying about not being able to kill a level 10 tank when he's just spamming heal is true, that seems to be a problem. Max geared end game players prob don't need this gem as much. Might be helpful to players that aren't max gear if they are smart about it. This whole thread makes me so happy I chose the imbued will set. Plenty of mana and plenty of armor. Survivor rogue :-) Since we've had a mythic gem in para and some good legendary gems, I certainly hope we can get some ARCANE gems in next expansion maybe.

[davidvilla]

If you have any questions regarding skills/stats/classes/gems you can email me. I would be glad to teach you :)

Ok Mr pro. Can u make a proper post about how to kill a warrior at low level like level 10 where he has 2300 hp around 700 armor, juggernaut, smash, vengence with 50 str and horn with duration and shield as skill set.

U saying ur a pro rogue at earlier post so can u please bring it on and prove it rather than just proposing literature at forums?

I will go at 11pm sharp London time and my ign is: unabinuate.
I would like to see if ur theory on armor actually meets the real fact in game.
Note: people r welcome to witness the game.

[cyrusrevange]

This would be much better(regarding -2 primary, 0.6*item lvl)

lvl 41 :
grand arena (+5/45.6)


lvl 11:

grand arena (+2/27.6)

and same for all other levels

[cyrusrevange]

Ok Mr pro. Can u make a proper post about how to kill a warrior at low level like level 10 where he has 2300 hp around 700 armor, juggernaut, smash, vengence with 50 str and horn with duration and shield as skill set.

U saying ur a pro rogue at earlier post so can u please bring it on and prove it rather than just proposing literature at forums?

I will go at 11pm sharp London time and my ign is: unabinuate.
I would like to see if ur theory on armor actually meets the real fact in game.
Note: people r welcome to witness the game.

This is my forume name. I don't post my IGN here sorry lol
Prob we met before or we will :)

[davidvilla]

This is my forume name. I don't post my IGN here sorry lol
Prob we met before or we will :)

Don't run from it dude. Make a rogue and come down 10 with all ur theories and hypothesis. And let's evaluate the game. We will have lots of witnesses around don't worry.
And no excuses please.

[cyrusrevange]

Don't run from it dude. Make a rogue and come down 10 with all ur theories and hypothesis. And let's evaluate the game. We will have lots of witnesses around don't worry.
And no excuses please.

Armor value should be increased to what I post earlier. I can send someone to evaluate the game for you with different classes, but para and eye gem must be used. This gem can only be little bonus against rogues. If you are looking to kill the warriors fast better move to end game as I said before. Low levels are not same as end game to act fast.

[davidvilla]

Armor value should be increased to what I post earlier. I can send someone to evaluate the game for you with different classes, but para and eye gem must be used. This gem can only be little bonus against rogues. If you are looking to kill the warriors fast better move to end game as I said before. Low levels are not same as end game to act fast.

Ur bla bla bla and all those literature again.
From what I sense is:
- u have a warrior at low level and u want those gems just to abuse through those armor being immortal.
- u cannot ask directly for those gems bcuz all twinks r asking to low down stats completely but u can't admit it. Just because u have a warrior toon somewhere at those level u just using ur lvl 41 as a decoy to get more armor.
When we asked for to limit at 40/41 nobody had any problem with it except u. Cuz u have a warrior somewhere dude. Just admit it dude that u want those gems badly to abuse at low level pvp.
# dontfeelshy

[cyrusrevange]

Ur bla bla bla and all those literature again.
From what I sense is:
- u have a warrior at low level and u want those gems just to abuse through those armor being immortal.
- u cannot ask directly for those gems bcuz all twinks r asking to low down stats completely but u can't admit it. Just because u have a warrior toon somewhere at those level u just using ur lvl 41 as a decoy to get more armor.
When we asked for to limit at 40/41 nobody had any problem with it except u. Cuz u have a warrior somewhere dude. Just admit it dude that u want those gems badly to abuse at low level pvp.
# dontfeelshy

lol how you know all twinks are agree with you?? most of ppl don't even come to forum, so we can't talk behalf of other people.
It seems you don't want them badly lol but pvp must be balanced.
I never waste time to play below l10.

[davidvilla]

lol how you know all twinks are agree with you?? most of ppl don't even come to forum, so we can't talk behalf of other people.
It seems you don't want them badly lol but pvp must be balanced.
I never waste time to play below l10.

Oh yea.
U claiming Urself being a rogue and now this.
119120

U r busted dude.

[cyrusrevange]

Oh yea.
U claiming Urself being a rogue and now this.
119120

U r busted dude.

I have plenty of characters. 4.6 HP was long time ago now much higher :), I use warrior as well.

[Blissfulgod]

Very nice. I'm inclined to agree with the "normal: -1 primary 0.3*item lvl; grand: -2 primary, 0.6*item lvl" iteration because the reality is a lot of players will be tempted to use a lot of these games with the higher primary stats, enough to make it the "go to" gem against the original gems and it should be a meaningful choice.

Thanks for the feedback in all regards

A meaningful choice indeed. If it has the same primary stats as a the original gems, it's a no-brainer. But, if I'm choosing a primary stat OR armor (with some primary stat negated), I'll really have to think about it! Interesting... :suspicion:

Sorry to throw another variable into the mix, but I hope the gem isn't made too rare so that the trouble of obtaining one negates whatever benefits one may get from choosing it over the original gems. Sure, suppose after thinking it over I decide to use it instead of the original gem. I'll farm and spend some money to obtain it, but I don't want to fly to the moon and back to get it. That is, of course, unless it is some amazing gem like the paracelsus soul stone for which I will happily slingshot myself into lunar orbit for! :eagerness:

[Carapace]

Using Haligali's well put together spreadsheet (Attached here for reference) I'm proposing these procs.

Warrior Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc armor reduced by 8% for 6.5 seconds, mana damaged 5%
Rogue Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc hit reduced by 15%, dodge reduced by 10% for 6.5 seconds
Sorcerer Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc crit reduced by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds, and adds bleed that damages 1.5% health every second for 6 seconds (9% total, bosses would be immune or take a reduced amount of damage, say 0.5% per tick)

119281

[Raregem]

So in pvp we (rogues) are looking at warriors taking away mana and now mages taking away 9% health in 6 seconds.. and we get dodge reduction.. I have no words. GG

[Serancha]

So in pvp we (rogues) are looking at warriors taking away mana and now mages taking away 9% health in 6 seconds.. and we get dodge reduction.. I have no words. GG

Dodge doesn't even work in pvp - at least not against skill attacks. Since just about nobody uses normal attacks, I'm going to agree with you on this. No rogue will ever use this gem.

Good work on the other classes though, Carapace.

[Carapace]

I was toying with the idea of a stun for rogues, but that seemed a bit overpowered. I'm open to other ideas, naturally

[Zeus]

I was toying with the idea of a stun for rogues, but that seemed a bit overpowered. I'm open to other ideas, naturally

How about diminishing reducing damage on proc? 5%, 3%, 1.5%, gone.

Taking into account that rogues have almost no DoT attacks, it seems fine. Of course, this could be my bias kicking in.


Note: not to be confused with damage reduction like that on Singe. This form applies on target.

[Kriticality]

I was toying with the idea of a stun for rogues, but that seemed a bit overpowered. I'm open to other ideas, naturally

Mana Regen Burst? I like Zeus idea as well.

[Raregem]

Is it possible for the mana drain or hp drain to stack on proc? Like if two warriors proc at the same time would it be 10% mana drain or 18% health with mages? Is there an immunity period after being hit?

Zeus and Bunk both have good ideas to change the dodge.

[Carapace]

Is it possible for the mana drain or hp drain to stack on proc? Like if two warriors proc at the same time would it be 10% mana drain or 18% health with mages? Is there an immunity period after being hit?

Zeus and Bunk both have good ideas to change the dodge.

It's possible, though unlikely given the proc rate frequency for a gang of warriors to widdle your mana down with this implementation yes. I would advice against being cornered like this regardless of the arena gem proc however!

[Carapace]

How about diminishing reducing damage on proc? 5%, 3%, 1.5%, gone.

Taking into account that rogues have almost no DoT attacks, it seems fine. Of course, this could be my bias kicking in.


Note: not to be confused with damage reduction like that on Singe. This form applies on target.

That sounds like a promising idea. I'm interpreting this as the targets effective damage output becomes 95%, 97%, 98.5%, 100%?

[Ravager]

How about diminishing reducing damage on proc? 5%, 3%, 1.5%, gone.

Taking into account that rogues have almost no DoT attacks, it seems fine. Of course, this could be my bias kicking in.


Note: not to be confused with damage reduction like that on Singe. This form applies on target.

This idea seems good for PVP but for PVE it further pushes away the need for other classes.

Also is the sorcerer's proc going to be affected by curse? I know many mages take out the DOT effects to PVP so they aren't constantly damaged by curse and die.

[extrapayah]

well, since this is themed as arena gem where survivability is needed,
a debuff of reducing damage, hit, and crit is better themed

and it should have same or slightly more powerful reduction than what toon's spell can do
because:
1. it is a proc (by chance, compared sure 100% debuff on spell), and
2. the infamous non-stacking debuffs (will effectively overriden by spell's debuff)

and like i said a 3.5/2% chance is practically useless, just see what happen to necro curse gem...

ofc this is a bias from PvE player

[noobseller]

Useless gem only good for twinks but hey there are only rogues at end game. Other classes dont count. If sts doesnt get their *** up I see many quitters soon.

[Raregem]

It's possible, though unlikely given the proc rate frequency for a gang of warriors to widdle your mana down with this implementation yes. I would advice against being cornered like this regardless of the arena gem proc however!

Lol Well often in PVP you will find teams with 2, and even at times 4 warriors, this will give them a reason to stack on sides more. Is it possible to avoid the stacking of the proc?

[Zeus]

That sounds like a promising idea. I'm interpreting this as the targets effective damage output becomes 95%, 97%, 98.5%, 100%?

Yes, exactly.

[Haligali]

Minimizing the strength loss is the only decent way for a warrior to use it. For me, I'm not looking for a defensive gem. Most warriors I know look for offense rather than defense.

41 Bonesaw > 41 Bulwark
Grand Blood Gems > Grand Life Gems
Grand Blood Gems > Enchanted Eye of Syrrilax

Those are my opinions and usually what I recommend when people ask me. Once you reach a certain armor level for warrior in PVP to survive an aimshot while jugg'd or for PVE to survive boss red zones, you don't need more armor at all.

I don't think there is a trade-off combination that is good for warrior without making the gem too strong. For 41, rage gems are 3/2 and better than normal gems 3. I would like at least to see 3 + (some armor value) for normal arena gems. I wouldn't grand the gem because I'll reserve grand slots for grand blood gems just like I use normal rage gems while crafting daily currently.

I know, i realized on the tarlok chart that 1 str>3 dex for wars, but it seems like there is no good solution here, maybe a normal -0 primary, 0.2*item lvl; grand -1 primary 0.4*item lvl? Wanna see that chart too or pointless? Im afraid thats too strong for low lvls again.

[Ravager]

I know, i realized on the tarlok chart that 1 str>3 dex for wars, but it seems like there is no good solution here, maybe a normal -0 primary, 0.2*item lvl; grand -1 primary 0.4*item lvl? Wanna see that chart too or pointless? Im afraid thats too strong for low lvls again.

I think its just too hard to find a good balance (stat-wise) but thanks for the effort. I think carapace is focusing on the proc end of it now.

Considering the proc, I think we should swap the crit reduction on sorcerers with the recommended rogue dmg reduction on mobs. Dmg reduction in pve for rogues further pushes away a need for any other class.

So rogues should get: reduce chance to hit as stated previously and crit reduction

Sorcerers get: diminishing dmg reduction and the bleed that was mentioned previously. please make sure the bleed is not affected by curse as many sorcerers in pvp do take out DOT effects to avoid getting instantly killed by curse. Otherwise they won't consider using it.

warriors: not sure if there's room for improvement or it stays the same. armor reduction doesn't seem to helpful as zeus stated earlier, most mythic pets, arcane and many legendary pets already reduce by around 15%. 15% trumps the 8%. Maybe make it mana leech instead of mana damage since armor reduction sucks? Dmg mana 5% but only a portion of it is converted to the user?

[Carapace]

Lol Well often in PVP you will find teams with 2, and even at times 4 warriors, this will give them a reason to stack on sides more. Is it possible to avoid the stacking of the proc?

Yes, I will put in a temporary immunity so that it does not stack excessively, however the potential for this scenario to unfold would be very rare.

Damage reduction for Rogues proc sounds pretty reasonable.

[Madnex]

Isn't it about time to adjust the proc rates depending on class? You've already given the wilds amulet and most importantly, the newest mythic amulet a warrior proc and now you're giving the new gem a sorcerer proc?

The damage reduction for rogue seems like a decent idea though.

[BaronB]

Sorcerer Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc crit reduced by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds, and adds bleed that damages 1.5% health every second for 6 seconds (9% total, bosses would be immune or take a reduced amount of damage, say 0.5% per tick)

Mages have DOT attacks on Fb,ice,clock,curse(in a way)... I really dont think mages are in need of anything else that just takes away life over time esp such a minute amount -.-.

Also the reduction of just 6.5% crit as opposed to the 8% armour reduction and the massive 15% dodge reduced being offered to warriors an rogues seems a little stingy towards mages.

Why cannot these figures be rounded and each class be offered the same %? Im sorry but to be offered a petty crit reduction is an absolute insult to mages when you have rogues running around with ridiculous crit base stats already and to top it off Aimed shot stacks on itself anyways when in use giving rogues more then enough top up for any lost from the petty mage proc.

Id like to maybe see talk of stun immunity prehaps however that in reality should have been implement into mage shields a long time ago (instead it got slipped into the latest nekro buff...by mistake? lel)

Now if these gems must keep the crit reduction as a proc for mages, how about then instead of the 1.5% of hp bleed we have maybe a hp regen similer to what a warriors HOR has to offer.

Lets please stop over loving rogues in this game and maybe share some of that love with the other classes that populate this game please.

[goldmarket]

Mages have DOT attacks on Fb,ice,clock,curse(in a way)... I really dont think mages are in need of anything else that just takes away life over time esp such a minute amount -.-.

Also the reduction of just 6.5% crit as opposed to the 8% armour reduction and the massive 15% dodge reduced being offered to warriors an rogues seems a little stingy towards mages.

Why cannot these figures be rounded and each class be offered the same %? Im sorry but to be offered a petty crit reduction is an absolute insult to mages when you have rogues running around with ridiculous crit base stats already and to top it off Aimed shot stacks on itself anyways when in use giving rogues more then enough top up for any lost from the petty mage proc.

Id like to maybe see talk of stun immunity prehaps however that in reality should have been implement into mage shields a long time ago (instead it got slipped into the latest nekro buff...by mistake? lel)

Now if these gems must keep the crit reduction as a proc for mages, how about then instead of the 1.5% of hp bleed we have maybe a hp regen similer to what a warriors HOR has to offer.

Lets please stop over loving rogues in this game and maybe share some of that love with the other classes that populate this game please.

I agree rogues have huge crit and should be reduced

[BaronB]

I agree rogues have huge crit and should be reduced


No.


My post wasnt about reducing anything on rogues.

My point was when rogues do have such huge crit already a measly 6.5% reduction as a proc is just not good enough to make any kind of difference at all.

[epicrrr]

No.


My post wasnt about reducing anything on rogues.

My point was when rogues do have such huge crit already a measly 6.5% reduction as a proc is just not good enough to make any kind of difference at all.

At 3.5% chance (or a possible stack not sure) this is very low and imo wont be that overpowered to PVP; how about changing mages gem proc to 3.5% chance to add 6.5% crit bonus and reduced target crit 6.5% ( 2-3 targets) within that 6.5 sec duration.

[Astride]

Rogue Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc hit reduced by 15%, dodge reduced by 10% for 6.5 seconds
Dev Carapace,
Dodge debuff for a rogue is not useful at all. I explain, the fast cd on the rogue skills leaves no time to use the normal attack. I for one can rarely recall the times i actually use normal attack both in pvp and pve except for stunning, to round it up the fact rogues can use aim shot+ nox bolt + shadow p consecutively without using normal attacks plus the fact skill attacks do not miss renders a 10% dodge debuff on enemies useless.

Another problem is this, if you look at the gem charts Haligali made you will notice that next season original gems primary stat will increase by +1 granting +7 on a grand but the other stat based gems will continue to give the same primary stat buff as this season.
This might become too much of a tradeoff making the original gems far more preferable if we consider the cost and difficulty in obtaining the other gems.

Regards.

[BaronB]

At 3.5% chance (or a possible stack not sure) this is very low and imo wont be that overpowered to PVP; how about changing mages gem proc to 3.5% chance to add 6.5% crit bonus and reduced target crit 6.5% ( 2-3 targets) within that 6.5 sec duration.

Id we go down the route of adding crit instead of taking it away... as good of an alternative to the proc it is, My quarrel is with the abysmal % of the original crit reduction.

If the gems proc chance is the same across all classes then why cant the % of proc ability be the same for each corresponding class?

Something along the lines of say a 10% crit reduction, armour reduction and dodge reduction respectively.

[epicrrr]

Id we go down the route of adding crit instead of taking it away... as good of an alternative to the proc it is, My quarrel is with the abysmal % of the original crit reduction.

If the gems proc chance is the same across all classes then why cant the % of proc ability be the same for each corresponding class?

Something along the lines of say a 10% crit reduction, armour reduction and dodge reduction respectively.

On 41 pvp clash or fights it doesnt last more than 60 secs *approx. IMO theres no use pumping that debuff % value. Now on low level - clashes last for *gasp more than 5 mins each wipeout this is where all the factors in your avatar get to be utilized and this is where the build building comes fun.

Crit reduction on mages actually doesnt sound beneficial to the other 50% of the community the PVE runners.

[BaronB]

On 41 pvp clash or fights it doesnt last more than 60 secs *approx. IMO theres no use pumping that debuff % value. Now on low level - clashes last for *gasp more than 5 mins each wipeout this is where all the factors in your avatar get to be utilized and this is where the build building comes fun.

Crit reduction on mages actually doesnt sound beneficial to the other 50% of the community the PVE runners.
Ill agree with the fact that a crit reduction is pretty pointless in pve, if we are to be stuck with this proc then at least make it of substantial value.

What i wont agree with, is you dismissing the fact that % value doesn't need pumping because of low lvl pvp.

The effects of these kind of gems should be intended of higher lvl/capped players due to needing to be of substantial lvl to be able to farm for the chests that drop them.

Creating content designed and intended for people who are not lvling is ridiculous and I wont entertain the topic on this thread =\

I repeat. 6.5% crit reduction and a 1.5 bleed proc just isn't a good enough package when compared to what warriors and rogues are getting on offer!

Keep it fair please.


#mage4life

[Astride]

Ill agree with the fact that a crit reduction is pretty pointless in pve, if we are to be stuck with this proc then at least make it of substantial value.

What i wont agree with, is you dismissing the fact that % value doesn't need pumping because of low lvl pvp.

The effects of these kind of gems should be intended of higher lvl/capped players due to needing to be of substantial lvl to be able to farm for the chests that drop them.

Creating content designed and intended for people who are not lvling is ridiculous and I wont entertain the topic on this thread =\

I repeat. 6.5% crit reduction and a 1.5 bleed proc just isn't a good enough package when compared to what warriors and rogues are getting on offer!

Keep it fair please.


#mage4life

Rogue Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc hit reduced by 15%, dodge reduced by 10% for 6.5 seconds

Sorcerer Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc crit reduced by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds, and adds bleed that damages 1.5% health every second for 6 seconds (9% total, bosses would be immune or take a reduced amount of damage, say 0.5% per tick)
I suggest the dodge debuff is taken from rogues and given to the sorcer proc. While the bleed proc is taken from the sorcerers and given to the rogues. Something like snare or movement reduction+bleed wont be bad at all for a rogue, afterall slowing down the enemy is a defensive counter.

[Madnex]

Is this a joke, lol? If there's some imbalance in this gem's stats given it's towards the rogues (and warriors) that are left out.

Dodge and hit reduction are both useless in PvP since you cannot dodge skills only normal attacks nor you can miss with anything. Same goes for the most part of PvE too (mobs cannot dodge anything anyway and bosses are unaffected by hit%). So 8-10% damage debuff on target sounds fair.
The 3.5% chance to proc is the only abysmal thing here for warriors and rogues, comparing to mages. Even a single charged fireball hits MULTIPLE targets six times which --even if targeting a single enemy-- equals about two full skill combos of a rogue and even more skills and weapon swings for warriors. Don't even get me started on combining this with frost bolt's seven ticks plus the other 100 ticks from time shift (which has no maximum mob limit, so you can stack 10+ mobs).
Now on the warrior proc, doesn't it seem like our pets (or even a single warrior's pet) have a better chance of applying an armor debuff of a larger scale than 8%? Plus in PvP and boss fights this will be overridden by the 100% chance of Axe Throw's 10% armor reduction. Change it to diminishing +200 armor self buff or 5% damage reduction maybe.

[BaronB]

Is this a joke, lol? If there's some imbalance in this gem's stats given it's towards the rogues (and warriors) that are left out.

Dodge and hit reduction are both useless in PvP since you cannot dodge skills only normal attacks nor you can miss with anything. Same goes for the most part of PvE too (mobs cannot dodge anything anyway and bosses are unaffected by hit%). So 8-10% damage debuff on target sounds fair.
The 3.5% chance to proc is the only abysmal thing here for warriors and rogues, comparing to mages. Even a single charged fireball hits MULTIPLE targets six times which --even if targeting a single enemy-- equals about two full skill combos of a rogue and even more skills and weapon swings for warriors. Don't even get me started on combining this with frost bolt's seven ticks plus the other 100 ticks from time shift (which has no maximum mob limit, so you can stack 10+ mobs).
Now on the warrior proc, doesn't it seem like our pets (or even a single warrior's pet) have a better chance of applying an armor debuff of a larger scale than 8%? Plus in PvP and boss fights this will be overridden by the 100% chance of Axe Throw's 10% armor reduction. Change it to diminishing +200 armor self buff or 5% damage reduction maybe.




One problem we have with elite maps is 3 rogues decently geared can breeze handle map without any real need of any other classes.

Can also bring up how the class dominates pvp but sir.. please tell me how there is any injustice or unfairness towards the rogue class ?

In terms of the 3.5 proc rate.. if this is meassured on a skills hit count ie a clocks dot attack counting as a hit each time then ill admit mages will have the upper hand.

However if a hit is calculated towards the proc by the number of times you shoot off a skill then this would work in rogues favour with the low cd times on majourity of skills.

Which ever way you look at it rogues habe it good in arlor.. im not saying take away its sweets.. just maybe consider suger free treats going forward untill the sugar rush dies off.

[Vrazicak]

I love new gems since I got lvl 5 twink,which will really help me in boosting armor,thank you STG!

[goldmarket]

Is this a joke, lol? If there's some imbalance in this gem's stats given it's towards the rogues (and warriors) that are left out.

Dodge and hit reduction are both useless in PvP since you cannot dodge skills only normal attacks nor you can miss with anything. Same goes for the most part of PvE too (mobs cannot dodge anything anyway and bosses are unaffected by hit%). So 8-10% damage debuff on target sounds fair.
The 3.5% chance to proc is the only abysmal thing here for warriors and rogues, comparing to mages. Even a single charged fireball hits MULTIPLE targets six times which --even if targeting a single enemy-- equals about two full skill combos of a rogue and even more skills and weapon swings for warriors. Don't even get me started on combining this with frost bolt's seven ticks plus the other 100 ticks from time shift (which has no maximum mob limit, so you can stack 10+ mobs).
Now on the warrior proc, doesn't it seem like our pets (or even a single warrior's pet) have a better chance of applying an armor debuff of a larger scale than 8%? Plus in PvP and boss fights this will be overridden by the 100% chance of Axe Throw's 10% armor reduction. Change it to diminishing +200 armor self buff or 5% damage reduction maybe.


Did you just say hit reduction is useless in pvp? lol

[goldmarket]

One problem we have with elite maps is 3 rogues decently geared can breeze handle map without any real need of any other classes.

Can also bring up how the class dominates pvp but sir.. please tell me how there is any injustice or unfairness towards the rogue class ?

In terms of the 3.5 proc rate.. if this is meassured on a skills hit count ie a clocks dot attack counting as a hit each time then ill admit mages will have the upper hand.

However if a hit is calculated towards the proc by the number of times you shoot off a skill then this would work in rogues favour with the low cd times on majourity of skills.

Which ever way you look at it rogues habe it good in arlor.. im not saying take away its sweets.. just maybe consider suger free treats going forward untill the sugar rush dies off.

I agree with baronb

[Madnex]

One problem we have with elite maps is 3 rogues decently geared can breeze handle map without any real need of any other classes.

Can also bring up how the class dominates pvp but sir.. please tell me how there is any injustice or unfairness towards the rogue class ?

In terms of the 3.5 proc rate.. if this is measured on a skills hit count ie a clocks dot attack counting as a hit each time then ill admit mages will have the upper hand.

However if a hit is calculated towards the proc by the number of times you shoot off a skill then this would work in rogues favour with the low cd times on majourity of skills.

Which ever way you look at it rogues have it good in arlor.. I'm not saying take away its sweets.. just maybe consider sugar free treats going forward until the sugar rush dies off.


The procs per class would be as follows, and now would apply to PvP as well as PvE:

Rogue:
3.5% chance to doing damage (This includes dots) to reduce enemy hit by 15% for 6.5 seconds

Sorcerer:
3.5% chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce chance to Crit by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds

Warrior:
3.5% Chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce armor by 8% for 6.5 seconds

This means that every single damage tick has a 3.5% chance to proc; there is not even the slightest doubt on mages going to proc significantly more consistently. This proc is a copy paste of the goblin ring and let me tell you, having played with it on mage, it goes off 5-6 times per mob cluster as mage in PvE and maybe less in PvP where time shift is not as useful but still dozen times more frequent than on rogue or warrior. Plus no one's using Nox in PvP as rogue due to its inefficiency and risk to trigger Jugg self-heal or be destructive to the rogue due to curse.

The issue of geared rogues being able to run any elite map without help will probably be addressed in the skill system revamp to make mages and mostly warriors more useful and wanted by elite running parties. This is irrelevant to the gem proc discussion.

Did you just say hit reduction is useless in pvp? lol
Do you even know what hit% reduction is? It's increasing the chance that PvE mobs *miss* and players can't miss using neither skills nor normal attacks in PvP. Learn before you "lol" in ignorance.

[goldmarket]

This means that every single damage tick has a 3.5% chance to proc; there is not even the slightest doubt on mages going to proc significantly more consistently. This proc is a copy paste of the goblin ring and let me tell you, having played with it on mage, it goes off 5-6 times per mob cluster as mage in PvE and maybe less in PvP where time shift is not as useful but still dozen times more frequent than on rogue or warrior. Plus no one's using Nox in PvP as rogue due to its inefficiency and risk to trigger Jugg self-heal or be destructive to the rogue due to curse.

The issue of geared rogues being able to run any elite map without help will probably be addressed in the skill system revamp to make mages and mostly warriors more useful and wanted by elite running parties. This is irrelevant to the gem proc discussion.

Do you even know what hit% reduction is? It's increasing the chance that PvE mobs *miss* and players can't miss using neither skills nor normal attacks in PvP. Learn before you "lol" in ignorance.

It's part of the game, what you expect or better we say who are you? do you think everything should be exactly as you wish to be!

[BaronB]

This means that every single damage tick has a 3.5% chance to proc; there is not even the slightest doubt on mages going to proc significantly more consistently. This proc is a copy paste of the goblin ring and let me tell you, having played with it on mage, it goes off 5-6 times per mob cluster as mage in PvE and maybe less in PvP where time shift is not as useful but still dozen times more frequent than on rogue or warrior. Plus no one's using Nox in PvP as rogue due to its inefficiency and risk to trigger Jugg self-heal or be destructive to the rogue due to curse.

The issue of geared rogues being able to run any elite map without help will probably be addressed in the skill system revamp to make mages and mostly warriors more useful and wanted by elite running parties. This is irrelevant to the gem proc discussion.

Do you even know what hit% reduction is? It's increasing the chance that PvE mobs *miss* and players can't miss using neither skills nor normal attacks in PvP. Learn before you "lol" in ignorance.

I cant comment as ive never had the pleasure of owning a goblin ring however..

Being told something will "probably" be fixed is as good as telling me "dont worry you cant pay your bills... you might win the lottery"

How long is a mage buff/skill revamp been over due ?

The issues with warriors has only more recently been highlighted and noted where as mages has had it way over due.

These gems shouldnt be seen as a fix to the need of using warriors or mages in maps your right but the package offered by these gems so far are more favourable to rogues at this moment in time, then warriors an then lastly to mages.

Unfortunately I might not be as clued up as some with the exact game mechanics as some of the other people that are posting suggestions and so far if you read through the thread most of the ideas that seem to have sparked a developers interests have been predominantly rogue players.

Like it or not this will always lead to some form of baised decisions which is fair enough as we all want our class to be the best but lets not keep allowing one particular class to have all the advantages.

I wouldnt be quite so sure about the lack of nox being used in pvp however... tho majourity of tanks use jugg.. not so many mages actually use curse.

But just because a rogue uses razor shield dosnt also mean mages in pvp have dropped fireball as they cant get the stun at the start anymore.


Keep the gem for rogues as it is.. fine... people are happy... but mage n war proc on gem need fixing to be more on par with rogue proc, and thats the underline concern here now.

[Rx8]

I cant comment as ive never had the pleasure of owning a goblin ring however..

Being told something will "probably" be fixed is as good as telling me "dont worry you cant pay your bills... you might win the lottery"

How long is a mage buff/skill revamp been over due ?

The issues with warriors has only more recently been highlighted and noted where as mages has had it way over due.

These gems shouldnt be seen as a fix to the need of using warriors or mages in maps your right but the package offered by these gems so far are more favourable to rogues at this moment in time, then warriors an then lastly to mages.

Unfortunately I might not be as clued up as some with the exact game mechanics as some of the other people that are posting suggestions and so far if you read through the thread most of the ideas that seem to have sparked a developers interests have been predominantly rogue players.

Like it or not this will always lead to some form of baised decisions which is fair enough as we all want our class to be the best but lets not keep allowing one particular class to have all the advantages.

I wouldnt be quite so sure about the lack of nox being used in pvp however... tho majourity of tanks use jugg.. not so many mages actually use curse.

But just because a rogue uses razor shield dosnt also mean mages in pvp have dropped fireball as they cant get the stun at the start anymore.


Keep the gem for rogues as it is.. fine... people are happy... but mage n war proc on gem need fixing to be more on par with rogue proc, and thats the underline concern here now.

Agreed. The major point is that these arent balances, i mean those gems...and stuff like that. They dont seem like much of a balance either, they just look more of an advantage. Those eye gems and paras are literally making rogues go from a normal to a skyrocketing damage blasters and crazy dodgers. The mage buff was so overlong due and when suddenly wars had a problem, an immidiate response? to the heck of it i feel sad to say that mages are actually being left alone! Show us, shower some love at us please.

[Madnex]

I'm done arguing. If you're incapable of grasping game mechanics and class design yet insist on focusing on mage buff because you don't have the skill/experience to play the most demanding and technical of AL's classes, it's best to leave this conversation at this. My suggestions and reasoning are above.

[epicrrr]

Ill agree with the fact that a crit reduction is pretty pointless in pve, if we are to be stuck with this proc then at least make it of substantial value.

What i wont agree with, is you dismissing the fact that % value doesn't need pumping because of low lvl pvp.

The effects of these kind of gems should be intended of higher lvl/capped players due to needing to be of substantial lvl to be able to farm for the chests that drop them.

Creating content designed and intended for people who are not lvling is ridiculous and I wont entertain the topic on this thread =\




In any case, 6.5% or 10% value on 3.5% chance wont have a balance changing effects on PVP but keeping it at the modest option of 6.5% for all levels seems to be the better choice.

[Raregem]

Cara,

It may be best to put this gem on the backburner until the new skill system is released and balances have been made. There seems to be too many issues from all sides twinks, end-game, warriors, mages and rogues. Maybe instead a new (not recolored) farm-able vanity in chests may be a decent substitute if it is awesome and doesn't drop very often.

[Nitamana]

Cara,

I think the arena gem proc still have big issues:
(1) Are the three proc types associated to the character class or to the gem class. If it is associated to the gem class, a player can have all proc which should not be intened. Too powerful for adding just 3 gems.
(2) Why the proc chance is the same 3.5% for both normal and grand gem.
(3) Can the proc chance be computed on normal attack or skill only and not on DoT damage? This makes more fairness to all class otherwise sorcerers will get far more benefit from the gem proc.

[Serancha]

I was toying with the idea of a stun for rogues, but that seemed a bit overpowered. I'm open to other ideas, naturally

Perhaps try making cursed skulls so they work well before making more proc gems?

Considering how that one flopped, wouldn't it be beneficial to get proc rates and stacking calculated and tested to the point where it's useful (yet not game breaking), before trying to work a formula on 3 more items of the same type?

[BaronB]

I'm done arguing. If you're incapable of grasping game mechanics and class design yet insist on focusing on mage buff because you don't have the skill/experience to play the most demanding and technical of AL's classes, it's best to leave this conversation at this. My suggestions and reasoning are above.

Rather then throwing your toys out the pram and start getting condescending, work with me here.

Way I look at this is say an average rogue has a base of 50% crit... my proc takes away just 3.2% of that for however many seconds.

Now a rogue gets a 10% dodge reduction over however many seconds...

Now with that in mind some please go find out the average dodge % mages have as a base stat as for me mine sits at 10.65%...

I also dont lack gears or pets.

For however many seconds a rogue during pvp will proc the chance to hit nearly every single time.

Thats my perspective and Im open for the idea to be sold to me that 6.5% crit reduction for a mage even the 1.5 bleed is relevant when much better alternatives exist.

I dont want to simply kick a fuss for the sake of it on a thread and I especially wouldn't want to jeopardize the opportunity of such a great idea coming into play ( I personally have been longing for armour gems since i first heard about para ).

If the rogue community is happy with the current modifications on the gem then YAY!! thats a 1/3 of the way there :)

I simply want to get more peoples attention to relook the proc on the mage just as rogues have done the same and unfortunately it does seem out of all the classes it is what it is at the moment rogues are the favoured ones.

Just about time other classes voiced out their opinions on what comes our for them rather then dictated by people biased to the opposing class
^.^

[Kriticality]

He was saying that dodge is mostly useless in Pvp. Dodge doesn't affect skills. Most rogues spam skills in pvp. As far as I know bosses don't dodge either.

[Xpolosion]

Dodge should be good in pvp they just need to nerf the dodge down 25% or something i personally enjoy longer clashes.

[goldmarket]

Rather then throwing your toys out the pram and start getting condescending, work with me here.

Way I look at this is say an average rogue has a base of 50% crit... my proc takes away just 3.2% of that for however many seconds.

Now a rogue gets a 10% dodge reduction over however many seconds...

Now with that in mind some please go find out the average dodge % mages have as a base stat as for me mine sits at 10.65%...

I also dont lack gears or pets.

For however many seconds a rogue during pvp will proc the chance to hit nearly every single time.

Thats my perspective and Im open for the idea to be sold to me that 6.5% crit reduction for a mage even the 1.5 bleed is relevant when much better alternatives exist.

I dont want to simply kick a fuss for the sake of it on a thread and I especially wouldn't want to jeopardize the opportunity of such a great idea coming into play ( I personally have been longing for armour gems since i first heard about para ).

If the rogue community is happy with the current modifications on the gem then YAY!! thats a 1/3 of the way there :)

I simply want to get more peoples attention to relook the proc on the mage just as rogues have done the same and unfortunately it does seem out of all the classes it is what it is at the moment rogues are the favoured ones.

Just about time other classes voiced out their opinions on what comes our for them rather then dictated by people biased to the opposing class
^.^

I agree with baronb. mages need more proc.

[goldmarket]

Cara,

It may be best to put this gem on the backburner until the new skill system is released and balances have been made. There seems to be too many issues from all sides twinks, end-game, warriors, mages and rogues. Maybe instead a new (not recolored) farm-able vanity in chests may be a decent substitute if it is awesome and doesn't drop very often.

Some people have issue with everything coming to this game, it doesnt mean all updates should be stopped because of them.

[Raregem]

Some people have issue with everything coming to this game, it doesnt mean all updates should be stopped because of them.

It's not about stopping the updates. This gem should be released but at a later time. The game is so out of whack right now balance wise, that I proposed a different option which has no effect on game play at all.

[goldmarket]

It's not about stopping the updates. This gem should be released but at a later time. The game is so out of whack right now balance wise, that I proposed a different option which has no effect on game play at all.

I don't see any issue with this update or any other in AL and I think everything should go on. All have to follow the game. We can't decide for game producers or devs what to do or when to do it(I think thats a little bit rude to ask for something like that)

[Ravager]

I don't see any issue with this update or any other in AL and I think everything should go on. All have to follow the game. We can't decide for game producers or devs what to do or when to do it(I think thats a little bit rude to ask for something like that)

Devs are human too. They don't play the game nearly as much as we do. They take in feedback. Elites were postponed last spring due to issues/possible issues. Delays happen. Better to prevent issues rather than wait till they happen.

[Raregem]

I don't see any issue with this update or any other in AL and I think everything should go on. All have to follow the game. We can't decide for game producers or devs what to do or when to do it(I think thats a little bit rude to ask for something like that)

This is a suggestion/discussion thread. Cara asked for our input. Does that mean they have to do it no. Since when is it rude to give input on a thread that is asking for it?

[goldmarket]

Devs are human too. They don't play the game nearly as much as we do. They take in feedback. Elites were postponed last spring due to issues/possible issues. Delays happen. Better to prevent issues rather than wait till they happen.

Good point but some players need to bring down that expectation they imagining inside their mind.

[Ravager]

Good point but some players need to bring down that expectation they imagining inside their mind.

I'm sure they have some sort of expectation or hopes. Not all my suggestions were considered or even replied to but its collaborative.

[goldmarket]

I'm sure they have some sort of expectation or hopes. Not all my suggestions were considered or even replied to but its collaborative.

Your a old good player bro, I hope you will be more happy as well. I remember bro your 500 flag AP, maybe you don't remember but I do. If im right it was on l31. Now you'r number 1/ very nice keep it up bro. Hope to see you always number 1.

[Carapace]

Taking a step back from the gem in its current form, this conversation has certainly dived into a completely other realm. There are class balance issues, and ultimately this gem is not supposed to "fix" or address in any band-aid kind of way the larger scale problem which needs to be addressed by a deeper dive and potential refactoring of skills as we know them.

I think the idea of armor on the gem with reduced primary stats is probably going to be all there is on this gem. Bringing the primary skill value up a touch and omitting the plans for Procs on this gem is the way to go, allowing the choice for players to utilize a little extra armor if they see fit. I agree with Raregem on this one, and the procs and other related elements of a gem are best left until the underlying issue is resolved.

I will bump the rarity of the gem down from a legendary into an epic, making them a lot more common and maintain a liquidation value of 2750 so that it's value in secondary market never dips too low. Naturally, new gems in the future with procs and the like are a discussion for that time and not off the table completely.

Thank you all for the feedback, and in depth discussion related to this gem!

[BaronB]

Taking a step back from the gem in its current form, this conversation has certainly dived into a completely other realm. There are class balance issues, and ultimately this gem is not supposed to "fix" or address in any band-aid kind of way the larger scale problem which needs to be addressed by a deeper dive and potential refactoring of skills as we know them.

I think the idea of armor on the gem with reduced primary stats is probably going to be all there is on this gem. Bringing the primary skill value up a touch and omitting the plans for Procs on this gem is the way to go, allowing the choice for players to utilize a little extra armor if they see fit. I agree with Raregem on this one, and the procs and other related elements of a gem are best left until the underlying issue is resolved.

I will bump the rarity of the gem down from a legendary into an epic, making them a lot more common and maintain a liquidation value of 2750 so that it's value in secondary market never dips too low. Naturally, new gems in the future with procs and the like are a discussion for that time and not off the table completely.

Thank you all for the feedback, and in depth discussion related to this gem!
Armourer gems yay ^.^!!


Serious note I am thankful you habe taken this approach rather then a hasty decision be made.

The idea tho of having different gems that proc different abilities is still very appealing. Prehaps a option where players can have a choice of what procs to equip on their armour ?


Could start seeing all sorts of combos ect ^.^

[Jeffgeomon]

How long is a mage buff/skill revamp been over due ?

The issues with warriors has only more recently been highlighted and noted where as mages has had it way over due.

These gems shouldnt be seen as a fix to the need of using warriors or mages in maps your right but the package offered by these gems so far are more favourable to rogues at this moment in time, then warriors an then lastly to mages.

Unfortunately I might not be as clued up as some with the exact game mechanics as some of the other people that are posting suggestions and so far if you read through the thread most of the ideas that seem to have sparked a developers interests have been predominantly rogue players.

Like it or not this will always lead to some form of baised decisions which is fair enough as we all want our class to be the best but lets not keep allowing one particular class to have all the advantages.

I wouldnt be quite so sure about the lack of nox being used in pvp however... tho majourity of tanks use jugg.. not so many mages actually use curse.

But just because a rogue uses razor shield dosnt also mean mages in pvp have dropped fireball as they cant get the stun at the start anymore.


Keep the gem for rogues as it is.. fine... people are happy... but mage n war proc on gem need fixing to be more on par with rogue proc, and thats the underline concern here now.

This post is rather misinformed and irrelevant. B.

This is a discussion about a new gem and how it should benefit each class in both pve and pvp. It is not about mage skill revamp, nor does it have any connection to it.

The rogue gem procs are completely useless in pvp (since all skills hit) and only benefit rarely from mobs in pve. Moreover, the stats that the gem are not worth keeping due to the primary stat trade-off. How would a gem that's rather ineffective be favoured?

Atm the proc benefits warriors rather well both in pve and pvp, with the only downside of having a relatively low chance of proccing. Considering the mage proc, reducing the crit rate of a boss would be useful, particularly in elite maps. Although the bleed in pve may not sound too satisfying, it definitely can be a game changer in pvp. On top of that, there is a high chance for mages to proc due to Dot.

If you are talking about skill revamps, then this is not the thread to discuss it. Even without a proc on this gem, 3 rogues will still complete elites efficiently.

Also, the devs are not favouring suggestions based on their class, but their experience and knowledge about the game. An example of this would be Hali's awesome table that he shared with everyone. It would be reasonable for the devs to adopt suggestions from players that are polished with the game mechanics over less experienced players (who are many people posting in this thread, including you and me).

Fyi, razor shield rogues do drop nox.

Just my 2¢. Be cool and stay rational :)

[BaronB]

This post is rather a ridiculous and irrelevant. B.

This is a discussion about a new gem and how it should benefit each class in both pve and pvp. It is not about mage skill revamp, nor does it have any connection to it.

The rogue gem procs are completely useless in pvp (since all skills hit) and only benefit rarely from mobs in pve. Moreover, the stats that the gem are not worth keeping due to the primary stat trade-off. How would a gem that's rather ineffective be favoured?

Atm the proc benefits warriors rather well both in pve and pvp, with the only downside of having a relatively low chance of proccing. Considering the mage proc, reducing the crit rate of a boss would be useful, particularly in elite maps. Although the bleed in pve may not sound too satisfying, it definitely can be a game changer in pvp. On top of that, there is a high chance for mages to proc due to Dot.

If you are talking about skill revamps, then this is not the thread to discuss it. Even without a proc on this gem, 3 rogues will still complete elites efficiently.

Also, the devs are not favouring suggestions based on their class, but their experience and knowledge about the game. An example of this would be Hali's awesome table that he shared with everyone. It would be reasonable for the devs to adopt suggestions from players that are polished with the game mechanics over less experienced players (who are many people posting in this thread, including you and me).

Fyi, razor shield rogues do drop nox.

Just my 2¢. Be cool and stay rational :)

I appreciate the response.

My original argument and still is how the procs and there respective % for mages seemed unfair as to what was being offered the other classes.

I appreciate this isnt the place for skill refinements nor that the gems are any sort of fix as im sure ive mentioned in previous posts.

I know I don't understand the full ins and outs but all I ask for is a explaination or justification to being offered.

For the record as well, I did say it was a case of basied players getting their inputs overheard. As a class rogues have the strongest voice so to speak in game and forums.

Now that is the reality of the game politics that one must navigate through in this game and it is what it is.

Now so far it seems all the excitement is coming from rogue camp about the procs on these gems.

Im happy for them but someone for thr love of god show me clear pros and cons of each class and there justifications for having whatever %s ...

Again may not know full ins and outs but I am willing to learn and not being able to get what I regard as standard information for such an iteam, then a "nub" such as myself will never be able to make a better informed decision before jumping the gun so to speak.

Also threads like these are f***ing fantastic!! More should be around and this is a great example of getting involved with the game developers ^.^ epic!

An most appreciate the time people have taken to at least read my couple pence ^.^

1 < 3

[goldmarket]

I appreciate the response.

My original argument and still is how the procs and there respective % for mages seemed unfair as to what was being offered the other classes.

I appreciate this isnt the place for skill refinements nor that the gems are any sort of fix as im sure ive mentioned in previous posts.

I know I don't understand the full ins and outs but all I ask for is a explaination or justification to being offered.

For the record as well, I did say it was a case of basied players getting their inputs overheard. As a class rogues have the strongest voice so to speak in game and forums.

Now that is the reality of the game politics that one must navigate through in this game and it is what it is.

Now so far it seems all the excitement is coming from rogue camp about the procs on these gems.

Im happy for them but someone for thr love of god show me clear pros and cons of each class and there justifications for having whatever %s ...

Again may not know full ins and outs but I am willing to learn and not being able to get what I regard as standard information for such an iteam, then a "nub" such as myself will never be able to make a better informed decision before jumping the gun so to speak.

Also threads like these are f***ing fantastic!! More should be around and this is a great example of getting involved with the game developers ^.^ epic!

An most appreciate the time people have taken to at least read my couple pence ^.^

1 < 3

+100 to baronb

yes/ all the excitement is coming from rogue

[goldmarket]

This post is rather a ridiculous and irrelevant. B.

This is a discussion about a new gem and how it should benefit each class in both pve and pvp. It is not about mage skill revamp, nor does it have any connection to it.

The rogue gem procs are completely useless in pvp (since all skills hit) and only benefit rarely from mobs in pve. Moreover, the stats that the gem are not worth keeping due to the primary stat trade-off. How would a gem that's rather ineffective be favoured?

Atm the proc benefits warriors rather well both in pve and pvp, with the only downside of having a relatively low chance of proccing. Considering the mage proc, reducing the crit rate of a boss would be useful, particularly in elite maps. Although the bleed in pve may not sound too satisfying, it definitely can be a game changer in pvp. On top of that, there is a high chance for mages to proc due to Dot.

If you are talking about skill revamps, then this is not the thread to discuss it. Even without a proc on this gem, 3 rogues will still complete elites efficiently.

Also, the devs are not favouring suggestions based on their class, but their experience and knowledge about the game. An example of this would be Hali's awesome table that he shared with everyone. It would be reasonable for the devs to adopt suggestions from players that are polished with the game mechanics over less experienced players (who are many people posting in this thread, including you and me).

Fyi, razor shield rogues do drop nox.

Just my 2¢. Be cool and stay rational :)

Don't call someone's post ridiculous/ maybe you'r more ridiculous than anyone. keep it clean and decent

[Serancha]

Taking a step back from the gem in its current form, this conversation has certainly dived into a completely other realm. There are class balance issues, and ultimately this gem is not supposed to "fix" or address in any band-aid kind of way the larger scale problem which needs to be addressed by a deeper dive and potential refactoring of skills as we know them.

I think the idea of armor on the gem with reduced primary stats is probably going to be all there is on this gem. Bringing the primary skill value up a touch and omitting the plans for Procs on this gem is the way to go, allowing the choice for players to utilize a little extra armor if they see fit. I agree with Raregem on this one, and the procs and other related elements of a gem are best left until the underlying issue is resolved.

I will bump the rarity of the gem down from a legendary into an epic, making them a lot more common and maintain a liquidation value of 2750 so that it's value in secondary market never dips too low. Naturally, new gems in the future with procs and the like are a discussion for that time and not off the table completely.

Thank you all for the feedback, and in depth discussion related to this gem!

I'm sure there are a lot of us who would like to see the Cursed Skull adjusted to make the proc actually handy. It would be a good place to start if you are planning on looking at proc gems in the future. Once the formula is set and people are happy with how it works, it shouldn't be too difficult to adapt it to other things. As it stands now, the proc on that gem is just a gimmick so people don't have much faith in gem procs as a feature.

Something to think on, anyways.

[BaronB]

I'm sure there are a lot of us who would like to see the Cursed Skull adjusted to make the proc actually handy. It would be a good place to start if you are planning on looking at proc gems in the future. Once the formula is set and people are happy with how it works, it shouldn't be too difficult to adapt it to other things. As it stands now, the proc on that gem is just a gimmick so people don't have much faith in gem procs as a feature.

Something to think on, anyways.

Wouldnt let me do a thumbs up so this shall have to suffice..

+1

[goldmarket]

+100 to Carapace / we appreciate all of your work.

[epicrrr]

Thanks Carapace for the interaction regarding this new gem.

[Carapace]

I'm sure there are a lot of us who would like to see the Cursed Skull adjusted to make the proc actually handy. It would be a good place to start if you are planning on looking at proc gems in the future. Once the formula is set and people are happy with how it works, it shouldn't be too difficult to adapt it to other things. As it stands now, the proc on that gem is just a gimmick so people don't have much faith in gem procs as a feature.

Something to think on, anyways.

In its current form it does not grant enough mana or infrequency of proc proportionate to player class?

[utpal]

armour doesn't do good at endgame. if it were % dmg reduction then good.
only matters in low level.

please change it to "2-4%" dmg reduction instead of 8-15armour.

armour increases map difficulty. FYI

[wizzaq]

Its a really good gem
thx guys !
Are the arena glacial gems better then a normal glacial gem???

[Raregem]

In its current form it does not grant enough mana or infrequency of proc proportionate to player class?

The proc on it is very low and does little which has made them undesirable. Here is an older thread that was posted in suggestions about the gem http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?191679-Please-consider-buffing-curse-gems-from-Halloween-event&p=1947908&viewfull=1#post1947908

[Carapace]

armour doesn't do good at endgame. if it were % dmg reduction then good.
only matters in low level.

please change it to "2-4%" dmg reduction instead of 8-15armour.

armour increases map difficulty. FYI

Armor does not increase map difficulty, that is a myth! And a very interesting one I might add.

[Haligali]

armour doesn't do good at endgame. if it were % dmg reduction then good.
only matters in low level.

please change it to "2-4%" dmg reduction instead of 8-15armour.

armour increases map difficulty. FYI

It was suggested before, good idea, but i dont know much about dmg reduction since its not a visible stat and I'm not playing warrior. How it's working, is it adds to your armor, if yes, then does it stack with passive armor modifiers? Armor reducer things like aimed shot does nullify it? Does it reduces all incoming damage, skills too? What percentage should be decent at end game to not ruin twink pvp?

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

[alphabane]

warriors in 3-23 twinks will become more OP when they get their hands on this gems.. makes pvp more out of balance.. :/

[goldmarket]

The proc on it is very low and does little which has made them undesirable. Here is an older thread that was posted in suggestions about the gem http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?191679-Please-consider-buffing-curse-gems-from-Halloween-event&p=1947908&viewfull=1#post1947908

True/ the proc is very low.

[Carapace]

warriors in 3-23 twinks will become more OP when they get their hands on this gems.. makes pvp more out of balance.. :/

Based on concerns related to this, the armor amount scales per level, providing little to no benefit in regards to armor for lower level brackets.

[Serancha]

In its current form it does not grant enough mana or infrequency of proc proportionate to player class?

In its current form you get a single heal of 2%, 2.5% of the time. Getting 50-100 hp back every 2-4 minutes isn't beneficial from a practical point of view. It doesn't even save you a single healing potion.

At the very least the % chance to proc should stack with multiple gems. The single 2% hp heal is so small that it would barely make a difference if it had a 50% chance to proc.

[Xpolosion]

The proc on it is very low and does little which has made them undesirable. Here is an older thread that was posted in suggestions about the gem http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?191679-Please-consider-buffing-curse-gems-from-Halloween-event&p=1947908&viewfull=1#post1947908

Skull gem definitely needs a relook its horrible lol because as the gear stats get higher our mana that skills use remain the same as how it was say in s3

[Nitamana]

In its current form you get a single heal of 2%, 2.5% of the time. Getting 50-100 hp back every 2-4 minutes isn't beneficial from a practical point of view. It doesn't even save you a single healing potion.

At the very least the % chance to proc should stack with multiple gems. The single 2% hp heal is so small that it would barely make a difference if it had a 50% chance to proc.

My AoE+DoT sorcerer has 1 grand skull gem, and it procs far more often in tomb mobs. The problem is that the proc dont evenly designed between class/skill. So, it benifits only a certain setup.
I would suggest that to let this skull gems as it is but for future gem/item proc, change the proc method (per skill maybe) and raise the proc chance accordingly and the chance should stack.

[Bellaelda]

OK...

I know this is redundant, but I think these new gems are just a waste of time a energy to add to the loot pool. I haven't talked to anyone that actually wants them and I feel like most people on here are just talking about logistics of gems that they really don't want to see added to game....

Personally I would like:

1)Para gems! The community has been begging for rare (tradable) Para gem drops because of the trouble, danger and expense of obtaining them now..... Furthermore as more and more gear comes out we will become more and more desperate! Adding them to the loot pool in even a very very rare drop chance and making them tradable would solve many problems that these gems have caused

2)eye gems or skull gems (if they can fix these to scale properly) would be cool as well, but mainly just Para gems

Basically I personally just want more reasons to face arena besides recipe or that ever elusive fossil... The drop rates don't need to be high, but I don't think adding new gems is the answer right now! (just my 2 cents).... Better to spend time and energy on class balance before tanks and mages all freak out and start trying to breed a new species, jk :-)

P. S. U can take all the gear drops outta arena all together and no one would mind... Just leave it at anks, pots, gems (if any good), fossil, recipe and gold... We just liquidate lol the gear drops anyway :-)

[magenice]

OK...

I know this is redundant, but I think these new gems are just a waste of time a energy to add to the loot pool. I haven't talked to anyone that actually wants them and I feel like most people on here are just talking about logistics of gems that they really don't want to see added to game....

Personally I would like:

1)Para gems! The community has been begging for rare (tradable) Para gem drops because of the trouble, danger and expense of obtaining them now..... Furthermore as more and more gear comes out we will become more and more desperate! Adding them to the loot pool in even a very very rare drop chance and making them tradable would solve many problems that these gems have caused

2)eye gems or skull gems (if they can fix these to scale properly) would be cool as well, but mainly just Para gems

Basically I personally just want more reasons to face arena besides recipe or that ever elusive fossil... The drop rates don't need to be high, but I don't think adding new gems is the answer right now! (just my 2 cents).... Better to spend time and energy on class balance before tanks and mages all freak out and start trying to breed a new species, jk :-)

P. S. U can take all the gear drops outta arena all together and no one would mind... Just leave it at anks, pots, gems (if any good), fossil, recipe and gold... We just liquidate lol the gear drops anyway :-)

I love this gem and it is not waste of time. Rogue armor should be lowered down to half, they already have dexterity dodge which acts better than armor. If you do not believe me one mage and one rogue with same amount of hp and armor go do watcher tomb without using potion and see which one will die faster! mage will die faster, why always mage should be sacrifice and rogue have more damage, more dodge,more critical,more hp and more armor than mages. we can only get to 1022 armor with our mythic gears with lower critical than rogues.

[roguedebest]

I love this gem and it is not waste of time. Rogue armor should be lowered down to half, they already have dexterity dodge which acts better than armor. If you do not believe me one mage and one rogue with same amount of hp and armor go do watcher tomb without using potion and see which one will die faster! mage will die faster, why always mage should be sacrifice and rogue have more damage, more dodge,more critical,more hp and more armor than mages. we can only get to 1022 armor with our mythic gears with lower critical than rogues.

hahaha dear even if our stat become lower we still the best and strongest class,even if you block us 3v5 we still are winner as you can see everyday. I'm waiting for you all in pvp rooms with 50% crit please do come lets have some pvp together.please bring some mixed dps and crit gem.Tq. muahhhhhhh

[Bellaelda]

I love this gem and it is not waste of time. Rogue armor should be lowered down to half, they already have dexterity dodge which acts better than armor. If you do not believe me one mage and one rogue with same amount of hp and armor go do watcher tomb without using potion and see which one will die faster! mage will die faster, why always mage should be sacrifice and rogue have more damage, more dodge,more critical,more hp and more armor than mages. we can only get to 1022 armor with our mythic gears with lower critical than rogues.

I'm not sure how u think this gem will help you balance out with a rogue, but best of luck.

[Xpolosion]

I love this gem and it is not waste of time. Rogue armor should be lowered down to half, they already have dexterity dodge which acts better than armor. If you do not believe me one mage and one rogue with same amount of hp and armor go do watcher tomb without using potion and see which one will die faster! mage will die faster, why always mage should be sacrifice and rogue have more damage, more dodge,more critical,more hp and more armor than mages. we can only get to 1022 armor with our mythic gears with lower critical than rogues.

Dodge dont work in pvp homeboy zzzz

[Lemonade Sejuk]

Nice :)

[Leonut]

Based on concerns related to this, the armor amount scales per level, providing little to no benefit in regards to armor for lower level brackets.

I think Carapace has it spot in here. The development should be focused to benefit end game content and players. Twinking is sort of a side activity.

Actually we would like to know exactly how armor blocks scales with defending against damage. Like 1 armor reduces 3 hp damage? This way we can weigh the options.

[notfaded1]

I think Carapace has it spot in here. The development should be focused to benefit end game content and players. Twinking is sort of a side activity.

Actually we would like to know exactly how armor blocks scales with defending against damage. Like 1 armor reduces 3 hp damage? This way we can weigh the options.

I completely agree! Most of us that pve all the time are already daily frustrated by what pvp balancing does to pve... throw twink a balancing into equation and it's just that much worse! A couple people here got it right either don't even apply to non endgame at all or make is really scaled... ie. does little for lower levels and more for endgame. I mean let's be real here... lower level twinks can't even run arena o.O! This all started with how about some para drop in arena crates right?

[Madnex]

I think Carapace has it spot in here. The development should be focused to benefit end game content and players. Twinking is sort of a side activity.

Actually we would like to know exactly how armor blocks scales with defending against damage. Like 1 armor reduces 3 hp damage? This way we can weigh the options.
The higher the armor goes, the more damage each point blocks. There's something on the works for this, should go up once Kali is less swamped from the tour of Arlor event.

[Leonut]

The higher the armor goes, the more damage each point blocks. There's something on the works for this, should go up once Kali is less swamped from the tour of Arlor event.

Wow. If it scales on an exponential rate instead of a linear one that would be crazy. That way warriors will never die?

[epicrrr]

Based on concerns related to this, the armor amount scales per level, providing little to no benefit in regards to armor for lower level brackets.

Armor does not and i repeat does not affect low level pvp if the -/+ are only 20-70 *approx, IMO in level 13 if u dmg 50 somebody with 550 armor, then with -50 armor to 500 your dmg will be 50 -> 47 *approx - this is normal attack. I've notice even if my armor is whooping 600 some rog still crit me 500 same as with my armor as 511. Just no so sure about when it come to skills but i bet its the same scenario.

[siddhant]

I completely agree! Most of us that pve all the time are already daily frustrated by what pvp balancing does to pve... throw twink a balancing into equation and it's just that much worse! A couple people here got it right either don't even apply to non endgame at all or make is really scaled... ie. does little for lower levels and more for endgame. I mean let's be real here... lower level twinks can't even run arena o.O! This all started with how about some para drop in arena crates right?
Why do u guys have problem with twink/pvp atleast we complain less than u guys u guys have new and really op gear every event we got breeze nerfed but it didnt get nerf in pve did it o.o i guess this frustation is due to twinks almost ruling gauntlet lb and pvp lb is it o.o?

[Jirikjurasek]

Wow. If it scales on an exponential rate instead of a linear one that would be crazy. That way warriors will never die?

Its linear


Armor works like this:

Armor Value * (Armor Modifier by level of attack mob) = Damage Reduction

This modifier goes down as the level of the attacking mob goes up, so that more armor is needed to maintain Damage Reduction as the player moves into higher level content.

This passive is a multiplier on the Armor Value, so that a small change might not have a huge impact on Damage Reduction, but the higher the base Armor Value the player has the more this passive is worth. Therefore, this passive is way more effective for a warrior is max armor than it would be for a sorcerer in medium armor.

For example:

Warrior with 980 armor at level 21 vs. Sorcerer with 500 armor at level 21.

Warrior DR w/out passive - 980*.00047619 (attacking mobs modifier) = 46.6% DR
Sorcerer DR w/out passive - 500*.00047619 = 23.8% DR

Warrior DR w 4/5 passive - (980*1.04)*.00047619 = 48.5% DR
Sorcerer DR w 4/5 passive - (500*1.04)*.00047619 = 24.7% DR

This benefit will grow as armor values get higher, which is one of the reasons why this passive will probably never go beyond its 5% increase. It would just become too powerful over time.

There is chart of damage reduction per point of armor based on character leve (see blue line, red and green shows only possibly deviation):
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