Am I a bear snob?

[Doubletime]

There have been a good number of posts here lately about bears and their role in the sewers. I have always been on the side of a bear being a good addition to parties, especially if you are grinding the hideout for xp and farming runs while going from 55 to 56. Ellyidol's warrior guild for bears in the sewers lays out exactly how to tank effectively through this board and the sewers in general. I mentioned yesterday, I ran a lot of groups and had tanks that hadn't seen Ellyidol's guide but still used this same effective methods.

Well, I think I have been spoiled. Today I have run the Hideout about 15-20 times, and have yet to have a bear that used these proven techniques. And I am torn. After one run, I will ususally try and offer a polite suggestion about beckoning to walls and such. Some really tried and will eventually get better with time and practice. Most said they would and continued to just do the same old thing.

I was so frustrated. I wanted to bail on the party. I was hosting, so technically I could have booted. But that kind of stinks too since these are appropriate level players doing the same grind I am. Some are on my friend list too. So password games aren't going to help.

So here is the question -- do you trim the friend list to kick the bears that aren't as good at the price of possibly hurting feelings? Or do you grin and bear it (yeah I made a pun)? Can I pay their tuition to bear training school by Ellyidol or one of the many bears that are great tanks? Just a little frustrated because I still have a long way to grind to 56.

[Royce]

I'll usually finish the run, and then try to find a different group. As for the friend list, I will probably keep them there for a good while, hoping they learn and improve (they managed to get on the list so I think it's fair to give them a chance to stay there), but yeah eventually hopeless bear is hopeless and I can't let him continue to make things more difficult for not only me, but also the friends I play with.

[Echelong]

Well bears can make a run faster or slow it down to a crawl. Some bear just never learn and others refuse to learn. I was on a group last night with a 51 bear and he was really good even though he didn't had the best gear he knew how to control and beakon mobs quite well. I would have him over other level 55 bears with fury gear any day.

[RedRyder]

i was doing swill pits with LadyHadasa and some randoms, including two bears. oh my sweet baby jesus, they had NO freakin' idea what in the blue hell they were doing. Lady and I explained the strategy thoroughly with everyone especially the bears (tank, becon to the pole, and beat the bejesus out of the pole when it glows) but they were all over the place like broken glass. it was so pathetic that a 53 and 55 bear couldnt listen to basic instructions

[FluffNStuff]

i was doing swill pits with LadyHadasa and some randoms, including two bears. oh my sweet baby jesus, they had NO freakin' idea what in the blue hell they were doing. Lady and I explained the strategy thoroughly with everyone especially the bears (tank, becon to the pole, and beat the bejesus out of the pole when it glows) but they were all over the place like broken glass. it was so pathetic that a 53 and 55 bear couldnt listen to basic instructions

If getting one bear to beckon and stomp correctly is Elementary School, getting two bears to do it is a fricking PhD. Seriously, that takes ALOT of skill and practice running together. More then one bear is suicide (and of course as always XOM and EllyIdol are the exceptions that prove the rule).

[Ellyidol]

You guys are too kind with the references, thank you. :)

I only learned from the best by watching bears before me. I was also able to practice more through countless games with friends even when I was still and only learning. Furthermore, getting inputs and advices from fellow bear friends really helped me. (thanks to Xom, Toughie, kraz, Tee, Cheah and Hoon). Talking to them on how to improve tanking, as well as actually seeing them perform, really helped put together a sequence to make it easier :)

[CryoBlade]

In my opinion, more than one bear is amazing. I've done a 4 minute run with three bears who knew how to use beckon and stomp effectively, except the boss is a mess :/

[Moogerfooger]

I was on a group last night with a 51 bear and he was really good even though he didn't had the best gear he knew how to control and beakon mobs quite well. I would have him over other level 55 bears with fury gear any day.

That was Persistant, aka Necrobane here on the forums I believe...I bet he has seen some of the Bear guides here :p

[Doubletime]

Well bears can make a run faster or slow it down to a crawl. Some bear just never learn and others refuse to learn. I was on a group last night with a 51 bear and he was really good even though he didn't had the best gear he knew how to control and beakon mobs quite well. I would have him over other level 55 bears with fury gear any day.


Yeah, I have definately learned the hard way that level does not equate to tanking ability. Yesterday, both of the really good tanks I did repeat runs with were 53s. A couple of times I was praying a 55 bear in the party would pay attention to how these guys would tank and maybe learn something.

[Doubletime]

oh my sweet baby jesus, they had NO freakin' idea what in the blue hell they were doing.

This sums up my feelings this morning nicely. :P

[RedRyder]

That was Persistant, aka Necrobane here on the forums I believe...I bet he has seen some of the Bear guides here :p


yupp with cyber gear if im not mistaken. for having a bear as an alt, its hard to believe its not his main with how well he plays it

[Echelong]

That was Persistant, aka Necrobane here on the forums I believe...I bet he has seen some of the Bear guides here :p

Yep. he was a good bear and kept trying to be faster and better. I really need to do some more farming at least 2 hours non-stop minimum.

[Doubletime]

Yep. he was a good bear and kept trying to be faster and better. I really need to do some more farming at least 2 hours non-stop minimum.

OK -- thread jack. Echelong -- im on now and need to farm 2 or 3 hours non-stop. So I'm game. Anyone know a good bear. hehehe

[Moogerfooger]

yupp with cyber gear if im not mistaken. for having a bear as an alt, its hard to believe its not his main with how well he plays it

Actually Red, that was my 51 (now 52) bear with Cyber you ran with a couple nights ago, and I'd like to think I have a bear semi-clue, haha.

Persistant was running with the Rageborn armor/Rift shield/Limbchopper I think, which is even more impressive how well he did. He done good.

[JemNI]

So...I'm curious if there's more to the bear thing than just following the guide. What specifically made this great bear stand out? I'm assuming there must be something other that he taunted whenever he could and avoided the use of stomp except in the corner.

If I could someday be recommended as a lower level bear like this guy, it would mean more to me than any equipment.

[Moogerfooger]

Proper use of taunt to gain aggro on mobs as he approached, so he would 'distract' enemies from lower-armor party members; beckoning into certain spots and walls which helped speed up things up/act as a mob traffic cop...this is huge when you have at-least-decent mages or archers with you...they see a good bear beckon into a wall/corner, they immediately know to go for one of the high-damage archer or mage combos because all the enemies will be nice and packed together; stomping smartly as explained in Ellyidol's guide (or as an emergency get-mobs-off-people move); always trying to stay in front of the party as best as he could (no mean feat, as we were hauling arse on these runs), and generally being an excellent skill user....he know when to taunt, when to beckon, when to pop his IronBlood on in tough areas so he could take extra damage, when to Hellscream to help set up combos, for example.

And being a good meatshield in general :D

[Doubletime]

Ellyidol, fluff and others can speak better on bears than me. But for me, it is how a bear positions groups of mobs with beckon and controls agrro that makes a big difference. By pulling mobs a wall and hesitating, it allows my to combo shattering scream and blast shot and throw a torn wall. The mage can lightning and then face melt combo. The bear can move away from the wall slightly and stomp after the beckon. That is four combos within seconds. It devastates a crowd. This to me is what is the difference between good bears and great bears. It is all about team work.

The bear worries more about tanking than doing individual damage. You can clear a board in minutes. On bosses, it is taunting for aggro and beckoning the boss away from the high dps players when aggro switches. It is timing stomps to keep the boss in the corner or pinned and stunned. The bear guides in the Warrior section are good. But practice makes perfect.

And if it makes any difference, I have learned a ton about tanking by watching good bears when playing my main. Now when I tank with my bear alt, I just try to immitate what I have seen that works.

[Physiologic]

This is where we note the difference between a casual gamer who has reached lv 50 casually, and the few dedicated gamers who try to perfect their characters :)

[Echelong]

This is where we note the difference between a casual gamer who has reached lv 50 casually, and the few dedicated gamers who try to perfect their characters :)

well I am kind of a hardcore retiree if that even exists due to real life I have become a causal gamer but I try to best I can. But on bears the difference is marked significantly since they can help or just bring chaos.

On goldfinger it is specially painful to see how one person can wipe an entire team.

[Physiologic]

well I am kind of a hardcore retiree if that even exists due to real life I have become a causal gamer but I try to best I can. But on bears the difference is marked significantly since they can help or just bring chaos.

On goldfinger it is specially painful to see how one person can wipe an entire team.

Rambo was a veteran retiree as well, but if you saw the latest movie he still did what he did best :) but yes good point, the amount of control a bear has over mobs does give them the hand of God.

[Zerious]

I think as a level 30 I'd be able to do this job XD nah jks at least 50, I need to get to work on it tho.

[Norbert]

P...this is huge when you have at-least-decent mages or archers with you...they see a good bear beckon into a wall/corner, they immediately know to go for one of the high-damage archer or mage combos because all the enemies will be nice and packed together ...

That's key too - having a party that takes advantage of a good wadded-up mob. I've played with some PUGs lately that totally failed to nuke the mobs after I bekon. I get this nice wad of them all ready and they sit there for a minute and then go back to attacking.

The hardest thing I've found is playing with multiple bears. A couple of times I've had runs with guys went really well -- where we are taunting/bekoning together and mushing mobs into little cubes. But more often the timing is off and one bear pulls first, then the other, or one bear is pulling to the wall, the other away, then the mobs go scooting off across the floor. I'm never sure what to do then, but generally wait for the other guy, then do mine and hope to help out (and do no harm, lol).

[Moogerfooger]

Same this happens to me when I am on my bear...if there is another bear, it can get ugly real quick with counter-beckons. I don't really care if both are taunting, as it still helps out the other non-bears. But there have been times where if I saw another bear doing a good job with the beckon, I'll just lay off beckon and do my best to use other skills and inflict a little damage if I can and absorb some punishment on squishy mages'/archers' be

[Ellyidol]

True, it's harder to coordinate with 2 or more bears. When bears beckon all over the place, it's what I like to call mob pin-ball, they're literally flying back and forth across the room.

What I tend to do is just let one bear lead and either switch to Dex gear, or if he actually knows how to mob control, support his beckons by adding a second one after. Works pretty well IMO, since it seems like a second beckon just sets them up perfectly.

[Fyrce]

When there are two bears, I basically lay off most mob control as I watch how the other bear is playing. I find it's easier to let the other bear lead, even if I think there are better locations to beckon for a bigger mob group, etc. Most other bears can't be trusted to not beckon and disburse my mob group. And some bears are used to leading, so they don't bother watching the other bear :P Bears that hang back -- well, I admit to not having much patience for those. I'm haven't been successful at all teaching a non-leading bear to lead; those might be complete write-offs.

When there is more than one bear, I'll use my beckon as an aid, to make a tighter group -- just run to where the other bear is and repeat beckon, or stomp right after the other bear beckons. If the mage throws ice, even better. For the boss, I'll watch people's health bars to see if I need to taunt.

Taunting right at the beginning (I try to do it before anyone can get a shot off, because not all birds/mages wait) really keeps aggro on the bear. Almost always this works. I've watched and paused taunt for a bit and if my bear gets aggro first, before other party members get in their attacks, I almost always keep it. If the mob aggros on another party member first, sometimes taunt works and sometimes the mob just goes right back to attacking that other guy, which requires multiple taunts and other skills to keep the mob away/occupied/stunned.

I definitely remove bears that will not learn from my friends list. I will try to teach and if they are learning, I keep them. I think leveling is still really fast (except prob the 55 to 56 grind, but I can usually get a few k an hour if I'm really working it, so I think that's still insanely fast), so my main goal is not necessarily xp only. If I can help players play better, that's fine. Those that cannot learn.... yep, off the friends list on the next run. I don't yell but there's always another group.

[Norbert]

Laying off is a good idea I think, at least to get a feel for how they work. I also do a second beckon, particularly if I have rage going as it does a nice bit of damage along with the crowd control.

However, bears that stomp after beckon on a mob drive me nuts. (Well, I do it if I'm soloing.) I pull them together, hell scream, and let the AoE crowd have at them. I might stomp at the end to try to finish off any survivors, but mostly I use it when I have a boss or mob against a wall or am trying to position them somewhere specific.

For bosses, I just spam taunt without worrying about health bars. It's free, so why not?

[Doubletime]

yeah. It is official. I am a bear snob. Ellyidol spoiled me in runs this afternoon.

[Moogerfooger]

yeah. It is official. I am a bear snob. Ellyidol spoiled me in runs this afternoon.

Once you roll with Elly....almost all other bears just ain't the same.

[Ellyidol]

LOL. Don't overrate me guys, I'm only as good as my group :)

[Echelong]

yeah. It is official. I am a bear snob. Ellyidol spoiled me in runs this afternoon.

Lol same... gotta admit he knows his stuff. very fun runs I'll be back in an hour or two.


LOL. Don't overrate me guys, I'm only as good as my group :)

No elly you can have and awsome group and one bad bear is enough to make people quit.

[Echelong]

LOL. Don't overrate me guys, I'm only as good as my group :)

No elly you can have and awsome group and one bad bear is enough to make people quit.


LOL. Don't overrate me guys, I'm only as good as my group :)

No elly you can have and awsome group and one bad bear is enough to make people quit.

[Doubletime]

Lol same... gotta admit he knows his stuff. very fun runs I'll be back in an hour or two.

Now if we could get Echelong to stop dying. :) Kidding. I'm only 5 deaths away from 1000. Should hit that later tonight.

[Echelong]

Now if we could get Echelong to stop dying. :) Kidding. I'm only 5 deaths away from 1000. Should hit that later tonight.

But but.... -_- don't worry even noobies learn I will pick up the pace...

[Doubletime]

But but.... -_- don't worry even noobies learn I will pick up the pace...

No dude. You got skills. And a cool looking set. Maybe one day the devs with give it a set bonus. :p

[Echelong]

No dude. You got skills. And a cool looking set. Maybe one day the devs with give it a set bonus. :p

Thanks lol and Amen to that.

[WhoIsThis]

Lol - this reminds me of a game I played in AO3 when 50 was the max level - Intergalactic Combat.

There was myself (a pure int mage) and 4 bears. That was crazy. These 4 bears insisted on casting stomp and beckon, pretty much as soon as their abilities recharged. When we entered a room, aliens would go all over the place. The only good thing that came out of it was that they also spammed taunt, so they managed to largely keep the aggro off of me. Eventually the mobs did die (although often they would reset). I suppose the combined power of so many stomps adds up. As for gurg - I left right after I realized that these bears weren't going to spare any orbs.

[naptownblunt]

You are not a bear snob at all i play as only a bear i have always been good at croud control but thanks to elys guide i am a cround controlling "is that really a bear" beast lol. To me it sounds like you should add the expierianced players you come across and make a habit of playing with them i try not to play with random groups i hate this myself but, we were all new once and i like to give advice and tips to new players esp bears as the critism goes towards us alot. Good luck man and if u want a good group to play with add me naptownblunt

Also advertise fourms i find 50 % of the players ask me what the fourms are they have no idea how much help is offered here