The attack bear vs. the tank

[Doubletime]

Due to the amount of grinding I have been doing lately, I have had the chance to play with a lot of different bears with lots of different playing styles. I have to be honest when I say my favorite follows the Ellyidol model of tanking through the sewers (with Ellyidol himself at the top of the list -- but there are lots of very good bears that play this style that I have been lucky enough to play with).

And I may have been unfairly judging some other bears who don't follow that play model as not playing the role of the bear to the full advantage of the party. This comes from my conversation with someone who said he really was more of an attack bear than a tank. Something akin to a close quarters melee damage dealer, rather than the meat/aggro shield. So he really doesn't try to follow the traditional tank model of play. Rather it is more of the Tasmanian Devil attack style that he uses. At least that is what is what it looks to me. :)

Once I got it through my thick skull that these type bears aren't trying to be tanks, but rather dps melee attackers, I started enjoying the games more. I wasn't frustrated with those bears and had more fun playing through the levels because my expectations of their role was different.

I think it is possible to blend these two roles, but maybe that is just me going back to liking the tank. So which do you like better? Tanks, attack bears, or some blend of the two. What is your style of play? And why do you prefer one over the other?

[neko]

Due to the amount of grinding I have been doing lately, I have had the chance to play with a lot of different bears with lots of different playing styles. I have to be honest when I say my favorite follows the Ellyidol model of tanking through the sewers (with Ellyidol himself at the top of the list -- but there are lots of very good bears that play this style that I have been lucky enough to play with).

And I may have been unfairly judging some other bears who don't follow that play model as not playing the role of the bear to the full advantage of the party. This comes from my conversation with someone who said he really was more of an attack bear than a tank. Something akin to a close quarters melee damage dealer, rather than the meat/aggro shield. So he really doesn't try to follow the traditional tank model of play. Rather it is more of the Tasmanian Devil attack style that he uses. At least that is what is what it looks to me. :)

Once I got it through my thick skull that these type bears aren't trying to be tanks, but rather dps melee attackers, I started enjoying the games more. I wasn't frustrated with those bears and had more fun playing through the levels because my expectations of their role was different.

I think it is possible to blend these two roles, but maybe that is just me going back to liking the tank. So which do you like better? Tanks, attack bears, or some blend of the two. What is your style of play? And why do you prefer one over the other?

Until recently (level 50-52) I've been playing the role of an attack bear using a Sentinel set. It's easy and it's been a lot of fun spamming my attacks. But now I'm at a crossroad and I'd like to switch roles and use Ellyidol's tanking techniques. It hasn't been easy to relearn the technique but I'm convinced it makes such a huge difference between a fast versus pitifully drawn out BS Hideout game.

Case in point, I had a horrible time with a loud-mouth Lvl 55 bear who kept stomping and scattering the mob around in the hallways - case in point, my bird died twice in that senseless game. He even called the rest of us a "waste!" There's no sense in flaming him. Contrasting him with a Level 52 bear, JToto, who was able to plan and stay ahead of us and kept the mob under control. He was very Ellyidol-ish. Kudos! So all in all, he's another testiment that it's all about the player/skill and not as much what level/equipment he had.

As a dual-spec bear, I'm totally appreciating Ellyidol's comment in another thread that depending on the need, my bear's role can be better served as a tank.

[Ciphor]

I prefer both at once. 153 dex with all my buffs debuffs maxed. Few points in slashes except 5 in sms.

[Ellyidol]

I love being attack bear, just because I can do a lot of damage (who doesn't like to do a lot of damage ;)).

But if I notice that the group isn't fast enough or able to take damage either, practicality makes me switch back to tank. :)

And again, too kind with the words :)

[Conradin]

you see, bears got it tough, mages can be pallys and take no heat, birds can be warbirds and nobody cares. but it seems everyone wants us to go and tank. I think bears can be more than that. Now elly is a kick *** dexbear. but i cant stand going through that many potions with the crappy m/s. so I go Intbear. If you use sewer robe, sewer cowl, enchanted wand and bracer. you do amazingly well. you have fair armor 130+ if you go all int, around 140+ if you are mixed str and int. your crit is good too, becuase of the enchanted gear. you will have lower dodge but we have sick dodge buffs. So i personally think intbear is the funnest bear to paly. and also helps out quite a bit in your party.

[WhoIsThis]

It really depends on the composition of your team more than anything else. I've seen teams where when two bears show up, one automatically grabs their dex gear.

It also depends on the damage output of your team. Ideally, the team will have a good pure int mage and a good dex bird. Tank bear and pure int are a lethal combo, especially if they can time their attacks well together. Having a good bird can significantly improve this as well, with thorn wall and because they are very efficient at killing stragglers with their high DPS. The bear can just buff, taunt, and beckon - perhaps stomp them into a wall, with the entire mob dying from the pure int mage's attacks before the bear sustains heavy damage (and the mage can heal). The bear can use their own DPS to supplement the damage.

If the team is not so good, I think that tank bear is inevitable. Somebody needs to keep the team alive - and unfortunately, it is often the under-appreciated bear.

[KaotiicxDream]

Right now i got one full blooded Tank and a newb full blooded Attack Bear... My Tank is lvl 54 and i love to stay alive for a long time alone, and my Attack Bear is lvl 12 dealing great amount of damage but he cant stay alive alone for a long time... Well i love them both ;-D

[Tengotengo]

I like to play my bear with big weapons. Hammers, Axes...the random Brainerator. I slip on the shield and hax when I've ran into a group of mobs and drop dead. It's good to know if the mage cares at all about keeping the big dummy alive or not.

95 percent of the time, the big ole 2h weapon does a great job of smooshing when the skills cool down, and I thought they also add some skill damage as well. You get to the boss battle, and you're either derping the boss, whittling away armor, or bleeding him.

my stats are muddy. 60 dex, and a little int, but basically a str bear. I built this dude before I set foot in the forums, in fact he was level 50 around when I made my account. Or before...I don't remember.

[Ellyidol]

I like to play my bear with big weapons. Hammers, Axes...the random Brainerator. I slip on the shield and hax when I've ran into a group of mobs and drop dead. It's good to know if the mage cares at all about keeping the big dummy alive or not.

95 percent of the time, the big ole 2h weapon does a great job of smooshing when the skills cool down, and I thought they also add some skill damage as well. You get to the boss battle, and you're either derping the boss, whittling away armor, or bleeding him.

my stats are muddy. 60 dex, and a little int, but basically a str bear. I built this dude before I set foot in the forums, in fact he was level 50 around when I made my account. Or before...I don't remember.

It depends when your using that 2H. :)

If I'm not mistaken, all 55 2H weapons had lower skill damage than the 1H Fury Sword. Since normal attacks are useless in mobs, since you just walk by and skill, not really normal attack, a sword would be best in clearing.

Though when it comes to bosses, you'd want to maximise DPS as much as you can, even if skill damage of a 2H is a bit lower than one of a 1H.

Take for example a Gurgox Hammer vs 1H Fury Sword, the sword definitely has more skill damage (since its also a level 55), but the hammer has so high base damage that it almost doubles the base damage of a sword, which makes it better for bosses since you normal attack a lot more, therefore higher overall damage. :)

[Tengotengo]

well, I'm not using 55 weapons, just 50s. I'm too poor to afford the 55 pinks :)
When I'm just running around smooshing mobs, it'd be the Gurgox or the Hate Battlesword. I can't clear mobs with a skill spam, but when that hammer connects, they're gone. When I'm fighting with all mages and warriors, I'll switch up to the plasma axe of the rift, as it nibbles away at armor. If there's birds and mages, I'll either be boring and stick with the hax/shield or limbchopper/shield, or sometimes the shadow swords of hate. When I'm all riled up my DPS is around 300 with them.

I also carry a harpoon around. There's been far too many stronghold runs where there's two mages and three bears, and the queen...stays....alive....forever. Lots of redhshirts doing the spam dance, but nothing sticking, ya know? I'll whack her with the harpoon a few times, the pull out the rift axe. Makes things move slightly faster. I'm starting to wonder if a sword and shield is all these bears are carrying. :\ I've been debating on carrying a forcecutter too, but...I can't bring myself to do it. It looks like I'm running around looking for dinner, fork in hand.

I'd probably adopt a different strategy, but my phone sorta sucks at this game, so my timing on mob control causes more problems than it solves.

[Corpser]

i dont care i plan to dual stats and be a dex and str i think thatd own so both for me

[KaotiicxDream]

Ehm... The Gurgox 2H Hammer is still the most damaging DPS STR wep ??

[Ellyidol]

Ehm... The Gurgox 2H Hammer is still the most damaging DPS STR wep ??

2H, yes.

It's base damage is so enormous for its level that it defeats even the 55 2H weaps.

[Riccits]

still want to know who has a 1H gurgox hammer.. :-/

[Pokechmp]

The reason y they want bears to tank is probably cause the bears have more health

[Wushu]

I, for one, appreciate well-played bears. I've been in some great runs with PUGs that watch each other's playstyles and adjust accordingly. Nothing like following a bear who beckons (appropriately), using a bird's thorn wall and shattering scream to set the stage, and then having the followup mages/bears/bird comboing like mad. It's pretty awesome to see "COMBO! COMBO! COMBO! COMBO! COMBO! COMBO!" on the screen.

[Doubletime]

I, for one, appreciate well-played bears. I've been in some great runs with PUGs that watch each other's playstyles and adjust accordingly. Nothing like following a bear who beckons (appropriately), using a bird's thorn wall and shattering scream to set the stage, and then having the followup mages/bears/bird comboing like mad. It's pretty awesome to see "COMBO! COMBO! COMBO! COMBO! COMBO! COMBO!" on the screen.


Seeing all those "COMBO!" pop ups is an awesome sight especially when it wipes an entire group of mobs. I remember running hideout with Ellyidol and Echelong and a couple randoms. Elly, Ech, and I kind of know what the other is doing so Elly would set the stage and Ech and I would combo, always running at full out barely stopping. The randoms would run in trying to attack only to see all the mobs dead and us off to the next group. I think my favorite quote from one of them was something along the lines of "what the h*ll just happened? They are all dead." (ok that is not true -- in game it would look more like "what h*ll happ? Thr al dead.") :)

So I definately see the advantages of the tanking style. I just think I may have been unfairly judging some other bears who play more of the attack bear style because they would choose giving damage over tanking (and can't seem to both tank and take the damage role). But as Conradin said -- no one complains when the mage specs out as a Pally, or the bird specs out as a War Bird. Why does the bear get so much heat for specing out as an attack bear instead of a full out tank?

Of course, I have run across a lot of attack bears that seem to be able to do both (insert Conradin, Elly, MrWallace, etc.).

[Tengotengo]

That's why I made a Warbird; do climb in there in h2h and use his armor-busting skills, as well as pound away and be able to take some hits. I'm not all that pleased with the results though...he's not very good at either skillset.

[Mr.Wallace]

Wheeee first post, to thank Doubletime for the nice words.
I've been all strength until level 50, changed to dex mostly because i was jealous of a bird soloing Gurgox with a bow. :-/
It think it was a good decision, cause i can still tank like before (just need more health pots though) and gained the freedom to play damage dealer with a bow.
In my high armor loadout i have 140 armor, which be be way less than a real tank, but still enough to run into some fire traps.
And most important: A panda with a bow just looks cute! ;-)

[romgar1]

Its about time you got a post up Mr. Wallace. You certainly have my vote for top 5 bear I know. Heidibear, Fluffnstuff, and Bodyguardz deserves mention for top bears as well.

[Doubletime]

Wheeee first post, to thank Doubletime for the nice words.
I've been all strength until level 50, changed to dex mostly because i was jealous of a bird soloing Gurgox with a bow. :-/
It think it was a good decision, cause i can still tank like before (just need more health pots though) and gained the freedom to play damage dealer with a bow.
In my high armor loadout i have 140 armor, which be be way less than a real tank, but still enough to run into some fire traps.
And most important: A panda with a bow just looks cute! ;-)

lol. Welcome to the forums MrWallace. Good to have you on board and the words about how well you tank, may be kind, but are also very true.

[Tengotengo]

All right MrWallace! nice to see you on here! You can use the quote I suggested as your sig :D

[Sweetwilliam]

Hello,
Being a so called Tank bear, you may be somewhat limited in your role for the party. Other characters have their own opinion as to what your role should be, what items you should be using, and what Elixers you should imbibe to make up for their own characters shortcomings. I grew a bit frustrated with my character, and his limitations, so I did a respec.
So now I am a Damage Bear? Well, kind of. Currently I run 4 equipment setups.
1- Bellows Set(boss kills, high crits and DPS)
2- Royal Set(waiting for Devs to add set bonus)
3- Royal/Bellows mix(Highest DPS/Queen kill with a weak party)
4- Partial Fortified set(my highest armor/Tank somewhat)

I like the flexibility that my character now has. Mainly like to be the Tazzie Devil approach, which is being out in front of the group doing the crush combo, absorbing some damage, drink a few pots, stay alive till it's time to move on and repeat crush at the next spot. This works best in a 3-4 minute Roach, or GobKing farming run. But can fill other roles, if there are multiple bears in the group.
Cheers
Bagwaan

[Sa1nT]

I am a pure mage. Level 52. Not much for quests, but I live to grind. I tend to use my wand (level 50, pink, blizzard stick of fate... High dps, .5 speed) I like to get in close quarters and deal out lots of damage while using weakness and nightmare to the party's advantage. I dance around a lot, and like at least one other mage casting a rainbow wall of damage, buffs, debuffs, and healing with me. For these reasons I play well with most bears. I dart out in front for most henchmen battles to use fear, blessing of might, and nightmare ahead of all attacks by everyone to tilt the battle heavily (sometimes) in our favor and then dart behind whatever bear is there. I stay on the offense the whole time casting as many damage spells as possible while paying attention to my stats and casting lots of heals and revives when needed. At that point it doesn't tend to matter which bear type is there. Battle ensues. I love picking fights.

[Ellyidol]

Hello,
Being a so called Tank bear, you may be somewhat limited in your role for the party. Other characters have their own opinion as to what your role should be, what items you should be using, and what Elixers you should imbibe to make up for their own characters shortcomings. I grew a bit frustrated with my character, and his limitations, so I did a respec.
So now I am a Damage Bear? Well, kind of. Currently I run 4 equipment setups.
1- Bellows Set(boss kills, high crits and DPS)
2- Royal Set(waiting for Devs to add set bonus)
3- Royal/Bellows mix(Highest DPS/Queen kill with a weak party)
4- Partial Fortified set(my highest armor/Tank somewhat)

I like the flexibility that my character now has. Mainly like to be the Tazzie Devil approach, which is being out in front of the group doing the crush combo, absorbing some damage, drink a few pots, stay alive till it's time to move on and repeat crush at the next spot. This works best in a 3-4 minute Roach, or GobKing farming run. But can fill other roles, if there are multiple bears in the group.
Cheers
Bagwaan

If your going for DPS, a Gurgox Hammer would beat a Royal Hammer.

Despite the RH (Royal Hammer) having more DPS, the GH (Gurgox Hammer) has tremendous base damage that more than compensates for its lower DPS.

A GH can probably do 2 swings of 200 damage when your RH can do 3 swings of 100 damage - due to base attack differences, hence making GH better even with a lower DPS value.

Furthermore, IMO, a bear gains most of its damage from its spammable slashes which constitutes to skill damage, which again GH gives more of.

Other than that, since you don't PvP I'm assuming, I like your loadouts :)

[Laviticus]

I like enough str for gear then the rest dex. Tanking with an attitude.
;)