PDA

View Full Version : Full Armor & Damage Reduction Analysis.



Madnex
02-27-2015, 11:33 PM
http://s10.postimg.org/g219ph0vt/Armor_Analysis.jpg



Armor
Damage Taken


0
938


400
848


585
807


600
804


850
748


935
729


1000
714


1075
698


1200
670


1275
653


1310
645


1425
619


1500
602


1555
590


1600
581


1612
578


1700
558


1745
548


1800
536


1860
522


1990
493


2137
460


2155
457


2200
447


2380
406


2520
375


2717
331


(Based on the static damage received from a certain boss in Shuyal, scaled to L41).

As part of supplementary tests, I would also like to confirm that neither the enemy's HP/armor nor its damage are scaling higher depending on if there is a warrior in party or not. With everyone in party at the same level, the mobs' difficulty only depends on the number of players in the instance, not the classes. You're welcome, warriors!

There might be another topic coming containing the exact percentages of how mob's damage, armor and HP are scaling as more players join the party. For now, as a general guideline, mobs and bosses seem to scale smoother for three players comparing to four, purely from a statistical point of view.

Bonus info: The damage reduction from both Nekro's & Scorch's shield is 40%. The difference is that Nekro's absorbs much more HP before it breaks.



Special thanks to Blipz, Ardbeg, Raregem, Shinytoy & the Pheonix guild for assisting with the tests and Kalizzaa for making an awesome chart out of the gathered data!

Hope this helps. :)

Azemen
02-27-2015, 11:41 PM
Wow! Thanks for the info

Raregem
02-27-2015, 11:42 PM
Can it be so? I finally see the numbers :P Great work!

Visiting
02-27-2015, 11:46 PM
:O Finally an explanation as to why smurfs are so darn squishy! Ty Madnab (also, Noragami sig, meh likes)

Serancha
02-28-2015, 12:29 AM
From the discussion started last July on this topic....


We might've been wrong about the assumptions part but, the same as with kali's case on buff stacks, the shocking discovery was not exactly what was originally suspected. It was close though so I'm expecting something similar this time as well.

I'm up for tests if the devs shoot it down either because it's not there or because it's probably hard to look through all this code and be certain if it's true or not.


Most people agree that they may say it's nothing and sort it out in a hidden patch.


I'll be content even with a silent patch in the case that something's actually off - especially now that I run with ring teams often. -.-


The last couple of months I had noticed a difference, and especially running Kali's tour with Rav this week, it was definitely not harder than with just rogues. So sometime between the original discussion and now, something indeed changed.

Nice work all.

Serancha
02-28-2015, 12:32 AM
Your next mission, Sir Maddy, is to figure out why runs are not considerably faster with elixirs than pure....... reference: every season leaderboard in history. ;)

Dragoonclaws
02-28-2015, 12:36 AM
To those who have some difficulty reading the chart:

It's the quivalence of damage reduction with armor (blue): More dmg reduction=more armor
and there is a backgroud where you can find the equivalence of damage reduction with damage taken (grey): more dmg reduction=less damage taken

Madnex
02-28-2015, 03:27 AM
Your next mission, Sir Maddy, is to figure out why runs are not considerably faster with elixirs than pure....... reference: every season leaderboard in history. ;)
Mostly because a lot of things are luck based like banishes, trap pulls, critical hit rates. Plus in many cases there's damage that goes to waste, especially since everyone's spamming skills in frenzy etc. A few more lucky crits, a boss stun that can go right or wrong, killing needed mobs before reset - many factors that are, like the whole game, heavily reliant on luck.

wingsgold
02-28-2015, 03:59 AM
Ty for info sir, i know now

Rx8
02-28-2015, 04:13 AM
Madnex, Is it possible to change the chart's .PNG into a JPEG file format? PC users...too small. i can barely see it xD

Madnex
02-28-2015, 04:52 AM
Madnex, Is it possible to change the chart's .PNG into a JPEG file format? PC users...too small. i can barely see it xD
Not sure what the issue is, chrome is displaying it alright on both android and PC. Perhaps you've zoomed out? Try holding down Ctrl and tap + or alternatively, hold down Ctrl and scroll up until it's readable.

Rx8
02-28-2015, 07:21 AM
Not sure what the issue is, chrome is displaying it alright on both android and PC. Perhaps you've zoomed out? Try holding down Ctrl and tap + or alternatively, hold down Ctrl and scroll up until it's readable.

I normally do zoom in, but then the image obviously gets somewhat blurry. That's why i asked for a JPEG type xD

BTW, what PC were you using? if i may ask?

EDIT:

I tried zooming in, but this is the universal type. Normally speaking, from any zoom in, the image looks the same :\ here's an SS from zooming in from the universal standard or a crazy standard :P

127043

Madnex
02-28-2015, 05:22 PM
I normally do zoom in, but then the image obviously gets somewhat blurry. That's why i asked for a JPEG type xD

BTW, what PC were you using? if i may ask?

EDIT:

I tried zooming in, but this is the universal type. Normally speaking, from any zoom in, the image looks the same :\ here's an SS from zooming in from the universal standard or a crazy standard :P

Chrome did use to have an issue with image resizing but this was resolved a while ago so update to the latest version if you haven't. Try left clicking on the image and opening it on a new tab, see if that works better. Alternatively, you can save the image and open it with your computer's default picture viewing tool (which should make it readable). Don't think PC specs have anything to do with it (it's a custom high spec gaming build running 64 bit win7 ultimate).

Fyrce
02-28-2015, 06:37 PM
Try opening the image in a separate window/tab.

And definitely: mages squishy.

Rx8
02-28-2015, 11:35 PM
Question: Below are some posts, r they in any manner related with your thread? :P


Here's it:

Armor Value * (Armor Modifier by level of attack mob) = Damage

Posts:


Armor works like this:

Armor Value * (Armor Modifier by level of attack mob) = Damage Reduction

This modifier goes down as the level of the attacking mob goes up, so that more armor is needed to maintain Damage Reduction as the player moves into higher level content.

This passive is a multiplier on the Armor Value, so that a small change might not have a huge impact on Damage Reduction, but the higher the base Armor Value the player has the more this passive is worth. Therefore, this passive is way more effective for a warrior is max armor than it would be for a sorcerer in medium armor.

For example:

Warrior with 980 armor at level 21 vs. Sorcerer with 500 armor at level 21.

Warrior DR w/out passive - 980*.00047619 (attacking mobs modifier) = 46.6% DR
Sorcerer DR w/out passive - 500*.00047619 = 23.8% DR

Warrior DR w 4/5 passive - (980*1.04)*.00047619 = 48.5% DR
Sorcerer DR w 4/5 passive - (500*1.04)*.00047619 = 24.7% DR

This benefit will grow as armor values get higher, which is one of the reasons why this passive will probably never go beyond its 5% increase. It would just become too powerful over time.



the .00047619 in this example is the amount of damage reduction per 1 point of armor. So with 980 armor, without the modifier damage reduction would be 980*.00047619 = 46.6%

this decimal number slides a bit every time the character levels so effectively you need more armor to stay at the same damage reduction, and thus can't just sit in your level 8 armor at level 20 and take any hits. :)

Rx8
02-28-2015, 11:57 PM
Your next mission, Sir Maddy, is to figure out why runs are not considerably faster with elixirs than pure....... reference: every season leaderboard in history. ;)

O.o

I guess due to elixirs, considered as buffs, the runs become tougher as lixes boost your stats so the mob's stats are increased?

I'll try with different lix's then...

Dragoonclaws
03-01-2015, 12:01 AM
O.o

I guess due to elixirs, considered as buffs, the runs become tougher as lixes boost your stats so the mob's stats are increased?

I'll try with different lix's then...

wait... what's the purpose of using elixir then ',:l

SacredKnight
03-01-2015, 12:10 AM
Very nice!

So, what the Bonus Info is telling me is that Nekro's Dragon Scales are stronger than Scorches even though they should be the exact same skill? -_-

Madnex
03-01-2015, 12:24 AM
O.o

I guess due to elixirs, considered as buffs, the runs become tougher as lixes boost your stats so the mob's stats are increased?

I'll try with different lix's then...


wait... what's the purpose of using elixir then ',:l
Planning to clear this up with a couple of tests, there shouldn't be anything scaling to a higher difficulty when you use elixirs versus not using them.

Very nice!

So, what the Bonus Info is telling me is that Nekro's Dragon Scales are stronger than Scorches even though they should be the exact same skill? -_-
Actually no, the buff has changed Nekro's scales to Undead from the simple Dragon type. Also Scorch as a mythic pet should have way less pet damage and HP hence providing quite a smaller damage reduction (this isn't justifying the lack of usefulness here, the gap shouldn't be this huge). Here's the appropriate quote from Cara:


- Nekro's Activated Ability shield has been renamed Undead Scales, and has a new formula: (((PetDamage+petHealth)*1.1)+(2.5*level)). This still shares a debuff cooldown with Dragon Scales, and so you cannot stack or chain Dragon Scales with Undead Scales. Here's a couple of examples based on level of how much the shield protects with the new formula.

lvl 41: (((259+703)*1.1)+(2.5*41)) = 1160.7
lvl 25: (((177+383)*1.1)+(2.5*25)) = 678.5
lvl 8: (((56+90)*1.1)+(2.5*41)) = 180.6

Rx8
03-01-2015, 12:39 AM
Very nice!

So, what the Bonus Info is telling me is that Nekro's Dragon Scales are stronger than Scorches even though they should be the exact same skill? -_-

If scorch had the same shield like nerko's wouldnt nekro or scorch mean the SAME THING?

Haligali
03-01-2015, 02:06 AM
If scorch had the same shield like nerko's wouldnt nekro or scorch mean the SAME THING?

No, since nekro buffed they haven't got the same shield anymore.

Nekro shield is undead scales or whatever.

SacredKnight
03-02-2015, 12:44 AM
Planning to clear this up with a couple of tests, there shouldn't be anything scaling to a higher difficulty when you use elixirs versus not using them.

Actually no, the buff has changed Nekro's scales to Undead from the simple Dragon type. Also Scorch as a mythic pet should have way less pet damage and HP hence providing quite a smaller damage reduction (this isn't justifying the lack of usefulness here, the gap shouldn't be this huge). Here's the appropriate quote from Cara:

Ahhh I see, so they changed the name of Nekro's shield.

Thanks Madnex ;)

mlb2005
03-02-2015, 03:43 PM
It always seems to take longer with a tank. If the tank has low damage the others in the party have to pick up the slack making it appear to be harder with a tank.

The tanks makes it easier for you to survive so it's a trade off. Unless you're a group of super armored rouges that don't die the tank is beneficial to your party.

Is that what were getting at?

Ardbeg
03-02-2015, 04:08 PM
this is not always the case (coming from a tank who also plays a rogue):

in arena, a tank is only beneficial, as long as the party is still be able to kill bosses before they get enraged. if they are, there s not much to do for the tank anyway, as spread rogues can share one hit s better then a tank getting one or two hitted, because his feeble skills don t impress the boss...
bottom line: arena is no place for tanks

in hard elite s (tombs) even in a high dps party i highly appreciate a tank when playing on rogue. but the tradeoff is too high for similar reasons: even if the tank does his job very well, during the prolonged boss fights, the one hit s during the extra time cancel the benefits from having a tank in the party. that s why we (ravagerx, maarkus, skipleggday, just to name a few, please feel free to protest) call for working debuffs to make it a real option to have a real tank (not only a warrior) in the party.

Lufi
03-26-2015, 03:41 PM
Ah. I've finally found the Pheonix guild...living here in the bugs and technical issues forum

frans3q
08-24-2015, 10:45 PM
sir moderator, make this thread sticky please.



to put it more simple its +2.38% damage reduction every +100 armor

reiewaun
10-02-2015, 01:37 PM
Make scale with armor and health if u can madnex would be really informative to know how much 1 armor corresponds to +health, ty for guide

Indojowo
11-11-2015, 02:36 AM
nice guide.... good!

JandelMan
11-17-2015, 10:47 AM
Yes very interested in this

Att
11-25-2015, 07:41 PM
I see you are still calculating stuff

Eskaygee
11-29-2015, 10:21 PM
Very informative post, thanks for allowing us to review the full analysis on the whole armor-damage deal! (:

godlydevils
12-25-2015, 05:33 PM
Hard Work appreciated

Ardbeg
03-26-2016, 02:12 PM
This time, Rogues should get hit, after all it' s about Rogue's armor loss effect :). Madnex chose a specific mob because it gave constant damage, so there was no need to average the data. Best use Weapons without proc. Have fun!

Ardbeg
03-26-2016, 07:37 PM
I am not sure if it is completely linear and you yourself demanded to clarify the role of the real damage output in pvp.
So far the damage was constant and the (my) armor was changed. If the damage output is important (as in: the higher the damage, the less the reduction percentage f.e.) so could possibly the class factor in. Remember secondary stat perks are not evenly distributed over classes too. You only want to see tanks getting slapped by Rogues. Busted!

Jbrtiamwatt
05-27-2016, 10:14 PM
Thank you so much

Wkho
12-08-2017, 01:05 PM
Very nice guide.!!! The graph is awesone.

Quadrants
07-15-2018, 12:11 PM
sir moderator, make this thread sticky please.



to put it more simple its +2.38% damage reduction every +100 armorI have count again, based from the old data and ur armor percentage, if i divide 100 by 2.38 it will get around 42. So if we multiply it by a 100 we got 4200. And this mean with 4200 armor. Its totaly 100%damage reduction to 938 damage value.

Sent from my SM-A910F using Tapatalk

C.U.
07-23-2018, 02:04 PM
Bump ....
#11