About Remien's last weekly update

[ueveotadeo]

I'm here to share my thoughts on the latest week announcement. Please Dev/Mods, if you are reading this thread, don't delete it again, talk with us!

First topic Id like to discuss is Skill System Revamp. But first let me tell a quick story.

As I mentioned in some threads, I work as an IT Consultant, and last year we were (still is btw) in this project that was about a Document Management System for the blueprints and management documents related with 2016 Olympics. By February 2014 we had in production what we thought was a good system. People were using it, we were having a lot of uploads but we lacked something and that was listening more to the client. We were starting to see some limitations on how we catalog documents and our associated workflows due to this lack of communication and although we could let it as it was, the client was starting to lose his trust on us. By that time our contract here extended until end of December 2014. We started to having more team meetings due to the constant need of "hand" intervention in some process and went into further discussion to understand the client.
To our surprise, what he asked involved re factoring most of the key features in our system, also we noticed how the lack of trust grew, we couldn't discuss requisites with them anymore, it was what they want and period. That shows how unhappy they were, and we never want an unhappy client, happy customer is a paying customer. So after 2 or 3 months of endless nights we did re factored the system, we migrated the data and trained the users. At the beginning was hard, hard to the point you wanted to quit, but it's march and we still have this contract so was worth it.

All this to say that right now STS - and that is my guess - is facing the same problem. Skill System is a core feature of the system and any bad measured movement here can end once for all our trust in you. Also we are at a point that we were promised some changes and you guys simply quit the challenge because it is too hard. The outcome here is no other than our trust hitting each time a new low.
We have the need of some changes in our skill system. I'm not asking you to change everything, I don't think it is that bad, but have you heard that 20%-80% expression? Lets do the 20% necessary to make their lives 80% better? That would be as simple as adjusting a handful of skills and introducing a 5th upgrade.
Remember, a happy customer is a paying customer, you are on the verge of launching a new game. The way things are I think it is safe to say that a lot of us wont be wiling to change due to what we think we can expect of you guys as a commitment to keep a fun and challenging game.

With that said I will move to my second point and that is Remiem's comment about the new expansion and class roles.
That one I got to say was surprising to read, I mean they described what should be exactly the way it is right now.
But back to the topic, having mobs that need to be parked we already have. Having mobs that will hit harder as time goes by it is just a "NO WARR" and possibly a "NO MAGE" map.
So by this point you guys are thinking, so how the hell I can make those classes needed in a PVE map if this is not the way to go? Well, I really don't think you can achieve class balance without the following:

-Skill system changes. Yes they are outdated, rogues can mob control (traps) can debuf enemies more than any other class (15% on aimed). I mean, even some pets are more beneficial to have than a mage or a warr, specially at boss (lets not forget what breeze can do not to mention other pets)

-Gear balance. I do think warr and rogue has good gear but I think (and I might be really wrong here) that mages need some boost on that matter.

Again, with that being said I'll move to my final point, Infrastructure.
I mean every time a test server goes live we have bad performance on game. Also, and I have stated that several times without a single mod answer, from January onward I notice more people complaining about lag issues. Which leads me to believe that you guys are conducting events/new expansion test on the Production server or at least using the same Content DB. Either that or you removed some servers to host the new game instead of acquiring new ones.

[ueveotadeo]

Quoting here, but I just read and it's worth sharing again:


Dear Fibus and Remiem,

The only fear that I have is that you are assuming the the roles of the classes especially the Warriors in PVE are at peak efficiency... In reality it is not. Thus please do not blind yourselves in thinking that the warrior class is performing its role efficiently because this is going to be disastrous in designing any map design.


This is what we have been telling you. Please listen to us and talk to us. Lets help each other here!

[bedmaster]

Yes... tanks no longer "absorb damage"... with one hitting mobs, tanks die on one hit and with their low dmg, they only slow down the run cuz the only way to stop one hitting mobs is to kill dem faster, also make high dmg from rogue or mage dont take the aggro of mobs from tanks... this makes me stop lvling my tank and focus on rogue lol

Sent by a nub using Tapatalk

[Dragoonclaws]

To be honest with you, I totally disagree with what you think about the new class balance. You guys, did NOT try the new expansion nor tried the new class balance system. SO how? Honestly HOW??? can you even judge something you don't even know? What if the new maps had too many enemies, like the skeletons in WT4, making it difficult for a rogue with a bow to kill 30 mobs that chases him with a high potential to 1-hit him?

You're judging too fast! Give them time, they are doing their job dood.

[ueveotadeo]

To be honest with you, I totally disagree with what you think about the new class balance. You guys, did NOT try the new expansion nor tried the new class balance system. SO how? Honestly HOW??? can you even judge something you don't even know? What if the new maps had too many enemies, like the skeletons in WT4, making it difficult for a rogue with a bow to kill 30 mobs that chases him with a high potential to 1-hit him?

You're judging too fast! Give them time, they are doing their job dood.

I didn't tried out new expansion, you are right, but the class roles they explained are exactly the same. I don't really see how that is new or should make us excited. It is nothing new, it is how we play now, no changes involved.

I can't judge what I don't now but we can discuss about the description they gave us that will lead to it, I think our input should be taken into account since we are the main users. As I told you, aside the mobs getting stronger, we see nothing new. Mob separation, mob parking, we have this now. If you dont think so go read some PT3 and Elite Tindirim guides and you will see that it is all there.

Now, about the mobs getting stronger, this will inevitably lead to mages being excluded from PTs or not wanting to run those maps since they are to squishy.

Also as Maarkus stated, they based all this "new old" definition of class roles on the assumption that everything is working fine. As I stated, we have pets that do more mob control than mages and that are better to have at a boss fight than warrs.

Again, as I said, changing the entire skill system, though needed, might be avoided by a simply small changes to some skills we have right now and also by adding a 5th upgrade.

Now, about giving time, this so called "Skill System Revamp" was started to be discussed more than 4 months ago if i'm not mistaken, we gave time and got nothing.
We also had several threads made by way more experienced players than me with AMAZING suggestions. As far as I can tell, all ignored so far.

But yes, somethings have been good. The f2p cupid event was good, except the part where u can't sell chests after event ended. That was never announced and a lot of people invested effort on hoarding them to make a little profit.

[Jazzi]

I didn't tried out new expansion, you are right, but the class roles they explained are exactly the same. I don't really see how that is new or should make us excited. It is nothing new, it is how we play now, no changes involved.

I can't judge what I don't now but we can discuss about the description they gave us that will lead to it and as I told you, aside the mobs getting stronger, we see nothing new. Mob separation, mob parking, we have this now. If you dont think so go read some PT3 and Elite Tindirim guides and you will see that it is all there.

Now, about the mobs getting stronger, this will inevitably lead to mages being excluded from PTs or not wanting to run those maps since they are to squishy.

Also as Maarkus stated, they based all this "new old" definition of class roles on the assumption that everything is working fine. As I stated, we have pets that do more mob control than mages and that are better to have at a boss fight than warrs.

Again, as I said, changing the entire skill system, though needed, might be avoided by a simply small changes to some skills we have right now and also by adding a 5th upgrade.

Now, about giving time, this so called "Skill System Revamp" was started to be discussed more than 4 months ago if i'm not mistaken, we gave time and got nothing.
We also had several threads made by way more experienced players than me with AMAZING suggestions. As far as I can tell, all ignored so far.

But yes, somethings have been good. The f2p cupid event was good, except the part where u can't sell chests after event ended. That was never announced and a lot of people invested effort on hoarding them to make a little profit.

The Skill system Revamp Discussion was started (officially) over 12 months ago. Reference here:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?140017-Regarding-the-Current-Arcane-Legends-Skill-System

[Dragoonclaws]

Yes they explained you what it is. It's just an explanation: That's not the new class balance.

[ueveotadeo]

I told you the same thing on other thread. Pay attention on verb time. She mention how they will fit. Future.




To go into further detail, this is how we feel each class will fit into this vision.

[ueveotadeo]

The Skill system Revamp Discussion was started (officially) over 12 months ago. Reference here:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?140017-Regarding-the-Current-Arcane-Legends-Skill-System

Thank you for this reference!

[Kingofninjas]

To be honest, Remiems weekly updates a pretty useless. All it tells us is what will happen on Thursdays update and we can wait 1 day to find that out. Everyrlything else they seem to be "working on" or "will be working on in the future". No conclusive data or facts. If they could provide a date, by now we would know sts will be at least a month late with major updates, so we can at least estimate when the changes will be made instead of being left hanging by nonsense like " we are working on it". They have been "working" on the skill system for over a year, with tons if genius suggestions, but they just keep postponing doing some actual changing. I have lost pretty much all hope that this game will be fixed anytime soon and I'm sure there are many who reflect my feelings.

[Raregem]

What if the new maps had too many enemies, like the skeletons in WT4, making it difficult for a rogue with a bow to kill 30 mobs that chases him with a high potential to 1-hit him?


I don't think the maps will have a lot of mobs. If you have seen what they did to Elite Wilds (shudder) then the direction they're going is less mobs, shorter leashes. If these maps do have large amounts of mobs with non-stop one-hits you are asking for rage quitting. We have ENOUGH one-hit, ankh sucking content. That is one of my biggest fears with the elites in the new expansion that instead of skill and team work it's a one-hit wonderland. A warrior is not going to be able to save or even help their party if that is the case.

[Dragoonclaws]

To be honest, Remiems weekly updates a pretty useless. All it tells us is what will happen on Thursdays update and we can wait 1 day to find that out. Everyrlything else they seem to be "working on" or "will be working on in the future". No conclusive data or facts. If they could provide a date, by now we would know sts will be at least a month late with major updates, so we can at least estimate when the changes will be made instead of being left hanging by nonsense like " we are working on it". They have been "working" on the skill system for over a year, with tons if genius suggestions, but they just keep postponing doing some actual changing. I have lost pretty much all hope that this game will be fixed anytime soon and I'm sure there are many who reflect my feelings.

oh I see you want a date! <3 <3 <3
i am guy :/


but if you're looking for a date... like this 2015/06/17 then you'll probably have to wait because they are still working on it and don't know exactly when it will end... Cmon guys, they have been developping games for years now, if they need time, they will take it because your daily complains are annoying. You know, they can give you a date, but be ready a week before, so you'll have to wait one week because you're not excited enough, huh? They can also give you a date and finish one week late, but you do want bugs so they will release it on date just for you.

Trust me, they will give a date when they learn about the date.

[ueveotadeo]

The thing about they stablishing a release date is Commitment and Transparency.

If you recall Remien made a post at the beginning of this year saying how they want to hear our feedback and ideas so we can all work together towards building a more pleasant game experience. That is transparency, even though looks like most of our feedback is ignored.

Now, let's take a look at what is happening. Since the beginning of this year we have been discussing how can we improve the current skill system. We were all led to believe that with new level cap would be a new and exciting Skill System that together with some map mechanics would make an awesome game experience. They started this topic an year ago, it was pretty much dead till some months ago it was brought up again and now dead. That is lack of commitment and transparency. Our feedback was simply not heard.

About the date for major releases, I don't know if you work or not, but every time we start to develop some new thing we have to tell when we expect to be ready, that shows commitment, transparency and also managing the clients expectations. It's normal and expected be it in software development, construction work or simply taking your car to the mechanic.

If you recall this thread (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?209573-PvE-Boosting-(among-other-things)) some pretty amazing suggestions were made. I'd like to ask devs if they were taken into account, analysed, discussed...anything. Just a better feedback than "we are looking into it".

[justhell]

But yes, somethings have been good. The f2p cupid event was good, except the part where u can't sell chests after event ended. That was never announced and a lot of people invested effort on hoarding them to make a little profit.

Wooooooot!!! .... [emoji33] So I can't sell my love chest... dem... They always screw my plans... All about event rules and conditions should be wrote in announcement... Nice STS thanks for another bad thing for me :)

[Dragoonclaws]

Wooooooot!!! .... [emoji33] So I can't sell my love chest... dem... They always screw my plans... All about event rules and conditions should be wrote in announcement... Nice STS thanks for another bad thing for me :)

You can open chests, and you can sell them

128160

notice the pic was taken at 12:34 0.o

[justhell]

You can open chests, and you can sell them

128160

notice the pic was taken at 12:34 0.o
Now I'm confuse [emoji46] which one is true we can sell or we can't sell that chest,can't play atm so I can't check by my self [emoji24] ...

[ueveotadeo]

Now I'm confuse [emoji46] which one is true we can sell or we can't sell that chest,can't play atm so I can't check by my self [emoji24] ...

U can sell, Im sorry for the misinformed comment.

Nonetheless, the entire rest stays true, no answer from devs/mods as usual.

[justhell]

U can sell, Im sorry for the misinformed comment.

Nonetheless, the entire rest stays true, no answer from devs/mods as usual.
Ahhh thx for confirmation,... Planing to open that chest for my other account,that'll be useless chest if I can't trade to my other account [emoji16]

[Bellaelda]

I agree that the mods are totally missing the point...
The issues lie with the fact that mages and tanks skills just don't operate properly.

Tanks can't hold aggro with the amount of damage rogues and mages put out so adding more mobs is just gonna mean that we all waste more anks. A better way to solve tanks being useful in parties is to extend their buffs to the whole team... That way we would actually want tanks in the group.

And mages need better shields, armor, and heals in order to be useful for groups... Again adding more mobs just means that we are gonna be dead more often... Think it's hard enough to stay alive now. Extending our shield to the group... Having better heal options (as our current heal is useless in pve) and allowing our stuns to be more effective or last longer or just actually work would be much more effective imo. Since currently pets do a better job of crowd control and shielding team and stunning then mages do.

Also... More mobs means more lag, more, disconnects, and more anks!

[Bellaelda]

There's been tons and tons of good ideas on how the fix things in any case and we were promised a skill revamping system and now they are just telling us it's not coming... Makes me really angry!

[obee]

STS needs to fix stuff like this, before they can move on to the "bigger stuff". It's like algebra, there's no point of learning it if you can't do basic arithmetic.

[ueveotadeo]

Since they removed Maarkus post I'll do a little bump here.

And again, I'm asking for you guys to talk with us.

Why the skill system revamp died?
What can we expect of new as class balance for next expansion?

It's hard for me to believe that you guys are still outlining those ideas. Let's be honest here, we don't start development without closing the major items to be implemented first. So, is the new expansion under development? Is yes, is the class balance being addressed? If yes, how?

Again, I'll link this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?209573-PvE-Boosting-(among-other-things)) so you won't say we just complaint without making any suggestions.

And again I'm asking for real answers. Not we are looking into that.

Also, I'd like to express a concern here. If after endless threads of suggestions, if the new expansion is already under development, you guys are just now taking a step back and evaluating PVE balance I'm a little worried....specialy because that thread I linked is one month old and you guys told us you were aware of this and already thinking on how to fix things....so you already started to think or are starting to take a look now? Which one is true if any?

[Justg]

I removed the thread because it was a total rant. Remember, please be cool while you are here.

We're pretty busy with SXSW atm, so thanks for your patience. I am sure GM and Productor will get back to you on this next week.

[ueveotadeo]

I removed the thread because it was a total rant. Remember, please be cool while you are here.

We're pretty busy with SXSW atm, so thanks for your patience. I am sure GM and Productor will get back to you on this next week.

You ask us to understand and be cool. But took 48h to have an "answer" from you. As a client how you want us to stay calm when we feel ignored?

And I don't know what SXSW is, I'm assuming some kind of event. If you guys can't take 15min from your agenda to answer us properly but yet are focused on prob advertising the new game, how do you think that makes us feel?

[Justg]

Thanks to the magic of censorship, I am going to retract my earlier statement. I'm sorry I told you to chill. You are right, this is not professional. My apologies, I am a bit stressed about our big sxsw event.

I will ask the live devs to get back to you with more info on skills.

Thanks,

- Gary

[G-M]

Hi ueveotadeo. Your experience working on the project for the Olympics is a great example of what we're facing with the skills system, thanks for sharing your experience. Congrats to you and your team for handling it the way you did and making your client happy. That's a big challenge and you kept your customer happy which is the most important thing.

To your questions:

1. Skills: The skill revamp is on hold while we work on the expansion. In fact I wouldn't even call it a revamp as any effort toward skills will more likely be a series of small changes over time. The next expansion is our top priority right now and so that's where we are staying focused.

2. Class Balance: As Fibus mentioned in Remiem's weekly update we're designing the expansion content in such a way that will highlight the strengths of each class and make it fun to play for everyone. Expect to hear more details in the coming weeks as we reveal more info about the expansion. When we put up the test server I hope you can come and check it out and share your feedback. These changes are not going to immediately fix all the issues you've mentioned--they are steps in that direction.

3. Expansion: The expansion is in development. We've been working on it since last year so when you suggest we're "...just now taking a step back and evaluating PVE balance." that's not correct. We've been doing that for quite some time and have planned this expansion around that goal. Will we instantly fix class balance? No of course not. Will it improve class balance and be fun to play? We think so but we aren't going to know for sure until we get you guys playing. Right now we're focused on making that happen as soon as possible. Again when we get the test server up I hope you'll join us.

A question of my own:

1. You've linked a thread with discussions of skills, botting, leaderboards, and more. When you mention "class balance" are you referring to all of these things or just skills? There's a lot of great feedback in that thread that applies to a number of different game systems.