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naptownblunt
03-19-2011, 10:44 PM
Ok so i want to make a nuker i wanna deal the maximum ammount of damage with the best protection possible how should i allocate my skills? Please explain why. You can use 6 1 1 6 corridence i understand what it means. Just never had a mage

Arterra
03-19-2011, 10:45 PM
only/best way to be a nuke-ing mage is just all int and use a staff with high damage. gives the skills the most damage they can get. as you can imagine, that does not leave much for defense, hence the name glass cannon.

as for skills... 6 on all offensive and debuffs, and on the crit buff. 1 on ice, just enough for combo, save points for better skills. 1 mana shield since the extra armor is not worth the damage you could give out/heal

naptownblunt
03-19-2011, 10:49 PM
only/best way to be a nuke-ing mage is just all int and use a staff with high damage. gives the skills the most damage they can get. as you can imagine, that does not leave much for defense, hence the name glass cannon.

as for skills... 6 on all offensive and debuffs, and on the crit buff. 1 on ice, just enough for combo, save points for better skills. 1 mana shield since the extra armor is not worth the damage you could give out/heal

Well im all int , so my next question is u said all 6 except ice what about shield? And some of them cant be 6 right so what would that be like 6 6 0 0 or what bro

Arterra
03-19-2011, 10:53 PM
im not going to make one of those annoying charts, sorry. a) you can decide the last couple of points yourself and b) the details i give work well enough.

offensive skills maxed out. my preference (can leave out points on last few): lightning, fire, drainlife, ice storm, ice ball
heal maxed out
debuffs maxed out
the crit buff maxed, the armor buff to at least 4-5, if not maxed out
mana shield 1
rev 1

edit: i think this lets you max out all important stuff. leave only one point on those specified, and you can pretty much choose between ices.

naptownblunt
03-19-2011, 10:56 PM
im not going to make one of those annoying charts, sorry. a) you can decide the last couple of points yourself and b) the details i give work well enough.

offensive skills maxed out. my preference (can leave out points on last few): lightning, fire, drainlife, ice storm, ice ball
heal maxed out
debuffs maxed out
the crit buff maxed, the armor buff to at least 4-5, if not maxed out
mana shield 1
rev 1

edit: i think this lets you max out all important stuff. leave only one point on those specified, and you can pretty much choose between ices.


Got cha bro thx for the help

Pharcyde
03-19-2011, 11:03 PM
nuke mages are equally as weak as they are strong. The stronger your offense gets, the weaker your defense gets. Currently the best nuke mage build in the game is a WHOPPING 74 armor, pretty high eh? xD, I am in love with Mastermind armor, never ever been able to get 100% overkill WITHOUT buffs before.

naptownblunt
03-19-2011, 11:08 PM
nuke mages are equally as weak as they are strong. The stronger your offense gets, the weaker your defense gets. Currently the best nuke mage build in the game is a WHOPPING 74 armor, pretty high eh? xD, I am in love with Mastermind armor, never ever been able to get 100% overkill WITHOUT buffs before.


Tbh i have no clue lol i just want a bad azz farmer lol

WhoIsThis
03-19-2011, 11:13 PM
That would be pure int with full mastermind and possibly with dex crown of persistence:

Compare (from Yanis' guide and Mystical's):
Customized Crown of Persistence Req: Level 56, No req, 14 Dex, 12% Hit, 10% Crit, 6 H/s, 27 armor
Mastermind's Gemstone Cowl: 12 Int, 12% Hit, 6% Crit, 4 M/S, 22 Armor

Buffed with a maxed out BOM, this translates into 98 crit, although customized has slightly lower skill damage due to no int bonus. Alternatively, you could go with mastermind for 94 crit. The staff builds give 92 crit with dex helm and 88 crit with mastermind respectively. And the extra armor from the customized helm doesn't hurt either.

Keep in mind:
Especially with staff - you will be fragile. No charging in front except in low levels. You are a glass cannon. Use your AOE for maximum effect. Expect to die several times if you respec before you get the hang of it.

naptownblunt
03-19-2011, 11:21 PM
That would be pure int with full mastermind and possibly with dex crown of persistence:

Compare (from Yanis' guide and Mystical's):
Customized Crown of Persistence Req: Level 56, No req, 14 Dex, 12% Hit, 10% Crit, 6 H/s, 27 armor
Mastermind's Gemstone Cowl: 12 Int, 12% Hit, 6% Crit, 4 M/S, 22 Armor

Buffed with a maxed out BOM, this translates into 98 crit, although customized has slightly lower skill damage due to no int bonus. Alternatively, you could go with mastermind for 94 crit. The staff builds give 92 crit with dex helm and 88 crit with mastermind respectively. And the extra armor from the customized helm doesn't hurt either.

Keep in mind:
Especially with staff - you will be fragile. No charging in front except in low levels. You are a glass cannon. Use your AOE for maximum effect. Expect to die several times if you respec before you get the hang of it.

i like!@! Ty

Hullukko
03-21-2011, 06:02 AM
That would be pure int with full mastermind and possibly with dex crown of persistence:

Compare (from Yanis' guide and Mystical's):
Customized Crown of Persistence Req: Level 56, No req, 14 Dex, 12% Hit, 10% Crit, 6 H/s, 27 armor
Mastermind's Gemstone Cowl: 12 Int, 12% Hit, 6% Crit, 4 M/S, 22 Armor


Full mastermind? What? Talking about max damage here aren't we? Did you check what your spell damages are with mastermind? (as opposed to any mix of mega, scrubbers and scrapers?)
How can you justify the 30 base damage lost due to mastermind with gained 36hit% over scrubbers for example?

The max damage for a pure int mage currently comes from scubbers and scrapers mix with a 56 dex hat. The exact mix of scrubbers and scrapers depends on what kind of m/s is desired.

Go anywhere from there (e.g. mastermind or mega) and you're trading dmg to armor and whatever happens to please you is where you draw your line.
Now, I'm not suggesting that trade-off wouldn't be worth it in most cases. It is. Mega staff set for example is a suit capable of good overall pve performance without needing to pot much and still carries immense dmg. But a bandit and gnome kings, for example, really do deserve nothing but the max damage because hardly any armor is needed with either of them buggers.

((For the record, there's seems to be some confusion how the hit% affects the dodge roll and whether hit% above 85% might be needed for enemies with high dodge, like bosses, or not. I'm not certain what the truth of the matter is, but my understanding is that the consensus is that hit% after 85 or so does not translate into damage as well as base damage bonus or crits do. But if that's not correct only then the mastermind's with it's +12 hit could overtake the scrubbers with it's +10dmg while having equal crit bonus. My subjective "feeling" regarding the matter is that +10 base damage bonus is worth more for a pure in than +10% hit assuming the hits are high enough to begin with.))

noneo
03-21-2011, 06:20 AM
Made this post on my other thread.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?21318-Level-55-Enchantress-Gear-Build-Comparisons/page3


For maximum DPS, you may want to consider full Mastermind and a dex helm of persistence. That should give you a very high crit.

Actually, the Scrubber's set gives a higher DPS, (i'm negating the hit% because it doesn't make a difference when you are already over 100%. and the cap seems to be at 85% anyway)

Check It out. First is the wand comparison with various other equipped items ( I used the Dex helm for all comparisons where crown is noted)

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7471/wandcomparison.png

Next is the Staff Comparison

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3892/comparestaff.png

Pretty interesting, I would have thought Mastermind would have been better as well. Keep in mind you sacrifice armor if you go with the Scrubbers items.

WhoIsThis
03-21-2011, 07:42 PM
Full mastermind? What? Talking about max damage here aren't we? Did you check what your spell damages are with mastermind? (as opposed to any mix of mega, scrubbers and scrapers?)
How can you justify the 30 base damage lost due to mastermind with gained 36hit% over scrubbers for example?

The max damage for a pure int mage currently comes from scubbers and scrapers mix with a 56 dex hat. The exact mix of scrubbers and scrapers depends on what kind of m/s is desired.

The thing is you are looking at paper figures here - real game results can (and often do) deviate. High crit is very useful at times. It means that when you unload all of your spells simulatenously, you have a very high chance of actually killing the enemy in one volley because all or almost all of your spells will crit.




((For the record, there's seems to be some confusion how the hit% affects the dodge roll and whether hit% above 85% might be needed for enemies with high dodge, like bosses, or not. I'm not certain what the truth of the matter is, but my understanding is that the consensus is that hit% after 85 or so does not translate into damage as well as base damage bonus or crits do. But if that's not correct only then the mastermind's with it's +12 hit could overtake the scrubbers with it's +10dmg while having equal crit bonus. My subjective "feeling" regarding the matter is that +10 base damage bonus is worth more for a pure in than +10% hit assuming the hits are high enough to begin with.))

There should be no confusion. Hit percentage is capped at 86%. That means with 1000% hit, you'll still hit 86% - enemy dodge %. Any higher than 86% is useless, save in pvp situations where the enemy can debuff you, because you'll still be at the hit cap.

The hit % on mastermind isn't all that useful in pve because as an int mage, you'll already be at the cap.


Edit:
Admittedly, I use full mega mage, but for different reasons. I believe that the higher base damage is important. However, remember that the OP wants a very powerful farming mage; not necessarily one that will face very high armor characters (which in any case, the OP can switch equipment and even then mastermind will likely out do mega mage). Furthermore, survivability on the mega mage is the best of the mage sets (although enchanted may in a sense beat it, it does not have mana regen, making its usefulness debatable).

Pharcyde
03-21-2011, 08:00 PM
Mastermind DOES have higher DPS, just not on paper. DPS means nothing in this game, most confused and least understood stat in this game for most players. DPS is your potential to hit, not that you actually will hit that per second. If you compare the real DPS of Lowman's and Mastermind, Mastermind would blow Lowman's set out of the water.

Hit percent caps at 86%, but crit doesn't. If any of you haven't noticed, crit is driven by hit percent. So having 133% hit will mean really high crit%. I like mastermind in PvP, because it gives me the ability to hit like a bird. Idk how many times now I have killed a bird and they are just laying there like "wahh... uh... bu.. buu.. what just happened?....." because their not used to having a mage hit them HARDER then another bird could.

WhoIsThis
03-21-2011, 08:17 PM
The thing is - they are looking at DPS, possibly the least useful skill on the list for mages. More important is skill damage - the base damage and the chances of critting. Most of an int mage's effective damage will come from their skill's and not their main weapons.

Even in the sewers, if there was a bet between mastermind and mega for effective damage, mastermind for raw DPS will come out on top.

For my playstyle of charging in front, some loss in damage is acceptable. I need that extra armor so that I can last. But if you stay to the rear or you are pro enough to kill before you sustain serious damage - well ... things can be different. Speaking of which, Pharcyde - do you think mastermind outdoes the Mega mage in pvp?

Pharcyde
03-21-2011, 08:22 PM
Yes and no - I have never ever been one shotted in pvp before, happened in mastermind yesterday. I have 400 hp, bird hit a 421.......... But when I did survive more than 2 shots, I would leave players with dropped jaws. Fastest kill a mage can ever get.

Then, MM, I do about as good as I did back when keeper was "like a boss" armor in pvp.

WhoIsThis
03-21-2011, 08:28 PM
I haven't been doing much pvp lately; need to level my bird.

My tactic has always been to buff, mana shield. As soon as I can, cast drain life and frostbite (still working on getting the timing right- I want to start just as the enemy hits the 12m range). IF I survive, I the drain life alone can often finish a bird (70% chance of crit in mega mage). Unfortunately, the hard part is surviving long enough.

Are you using staff or wand/bracer with mastermind and mega mage? I've debated between the merits of the two.

Pharcyde
03-21-2011, 08:30 PM
Wand/Bracer should NEVER be used in PvP. All about max damage in the PvP world ;).

WhoIsThis
03-21-2011, 08:37 PM
Wand/Bracer should NEVER be used in PvP. All about max damage in the PvP world ;).

I have been using mainly wand and bracer. When I start PvPing more, I'm going to test out staff. I'm debating between the gem blast and gemstone right now though.

Edit: Speaking of which, several elite PvP players will disagree with you on that wand/bracer vs. staff, especially many pallys and hybrid ints.

Pharcyde
03-21-2011, 08:49 PM
Pally's should be using bear gear, hybrid ints do no damage. Not to sound mean here, but hybrid ints are pretty bad in pvp. Almost as squishy as a mage, and so little damage.

For us mages, armor isn't a big factor in PvP. Bracer or not, many birds can still crush you in the same exact amount of time. Your only hope is to take them out before they take you out, hence, max damage.

WhoIsThis
03-21-2011, 09:19 PM
Here is the skill damage comparing the two (mega mage sets):

Gemstone Wand + Bracer:

Min, Max, Average
Weapon DPS 179 224 202
Heal 133 271 202
Frostbite 209 267 238
Ice Storm 159 195 177
Firestorm 275 389 332
Lightning 262 394 328
Drain Life 305 450 377.5

Gemstone Staff:

Min, max, average:
Weapon DPS 226 264 223
Heal 131 267 199
Frostbite 253 310 281.5
Ice Storm 204 239 221.5
Firestorm 318 430 374
Lightning 306 435 370.5
Drain Life 348 490 419


I'm going to be putting all of this together. I had been planning a guide last week, but I was too busy.

lilbyrdie
03-25-2011, 08:43 AM
Here is the skill damage comparing the two (mega mage sets):

Gemstone Wand + Bracer:

Min, Max, Average
Weapon DPS 179 224 202
Heal 133 271 202
Frostbite 209 267 238
Ice Storm 159 195 177
Firestorm 275 389 332
Lightning 262 394 328
Drain Life 305 450 377.5

Gemstone Staff:

Min, max, average:
Weapon DPS 226 264 223
Heal 131 267 199
Frostbite 253 310 281.5
Ice Storm 204 239 221.5
Firestorm 318 430 374
Lightning 306 435 370.5
Drain Life 348 490 419


I'm going to be putting all of this together. I had been planning a guide last week, but I was too busy.


This is the sort of comparison you have to do when comparing sets. Weapon damage is such a small percent of total damage of a mage that it's very important to carefully consider the effect of the sets on total skill damage.

You can use a calculated DPS to help, by adding up all the DPS of all the skills and the weapon, but doing so at several estimated mob armor levels. The higher the mob armor, the more obvious the effect of a low base damage on a fast weapon becomes -- not to mention the massive loss in damage from skills. Then, once you have all of that in place, add in the differences due to hit% (if under 85%) and crit% -- both of which also apply to attack skills. For instance 10% more hit and 5% more crit translates to about 15% more overall damage.

For a nuke mage, you want the maximum combination of all of that. dodge, armor, regen, and all the rest are gravy -- as others have said, a max damage nuke mage is going to be more fragile because of the typical item trade-offs.

Another minor point: although a 50-150 and a 95-105 damage item at the same speed should add the same base damage to skills and, statistically, do the same damage to mobs, the 95-105 is a "safer" bet. You can't _just_ look at the averages...

KaotiicxDream
03-25-2011, 09:50 AM
May i get the definition of a "Nukemage"? Is it just a Mage with really high weapon dmg and skill dmg? or is it something else?

lilbyrdie
03-25-2011, 03:14 PM
May i get the definition of a "Nukemage"? Is it just a Mage with really high weapon dmg and skill dmg? or is it something else?

If you get your skills just right, and just the right weapon, and just the right time of day, you'll set off a nuclear explosion and clear the area in one hit.

j/k

It's exactly what it sounds like... and is pretty much how many mages play. Walk in, blow everything up, keep walking.

KaotiicxDream
03-25-2011, 03:27 PM
If you get your skills just right, and just the right weapon, and just the right time of day, you'll set off a nuclear explosion and clear the area in one hit.

j/k

It's exactly what it sounds like... and is pretty much how many mages play. Walk in, blow everything up, keep walking.

The first part u wrote is when i play Modern Warfare 2 xD

WhoIsThis
03-25-2011, 04:49 PM
Skill damage is what defines a nuke mage. Spell damage is the main killer here.

Hullukko
03-26-2011, 04:53 AM
Another minor point: although a 50-150 and a 95-105 damage item at the same speed should add the same base damage to skills and, statistically, do the same damage to mobs, the 95-105 is a "safer" bet. You can't _just_ look at the averages...

I agree with the rest, but one minor correction. They're not statistically the same. The difference, when there is any, is in favour for 50-150. Enemy armor above 50 starts work in favour of the wider range. Which is most apparent when the enemy armor reaches 105 after which the smaller range makes eggs while the other still manages to do something. This is because is no such thing as negative damage, if there were, their damage would indeed be equal regardless of enemy armor.

lilbyrdie
03-26-2011, 09:23 AM
I agree with the rest, but one minor correction. They're not statistically the same. The difference, when there is any, is in favour for 50-150. Enemy armor above 50 starts work in favour of the wider range. Which is most apparent when the enemy armor reaches 105 after which the smaller range makes eggs while the other still manages to do something. This is because is no such thing as negative damage, if there were, their damage would indeed be equal regardless of enemy armor.

Good point.

That same point works in reverse, too. If you're in an area with average mob armor of, say, 90, a good percent of the hits of the 50-150 will be absorbed by the armor (a "miss", I think), while the 95-105 will land more (no misses due to armor absorption).

It further goes to show that graphing damage per hit against various armor levels and then normalizing against time is about the only way to get an estimated picture of what the weapons will feel like in battle...


What I'm not sure is if we, like mobs, have some minimum damage when a hit is landed, regardless of armor. For instance, we can armor up all we want and drop into FH, but we'll still take 5-6 damage per landed hit. (That's where H/s starts to matter more, too. It can quickly erase those minimum hit "scratches.") It doesn't really change the calculations any, it just means we'd always be a tiny bit useful instead of totally useless in the worst cases. :)

Sigkill
03-26-2011, 12:18 PM
nuke mages are equally as weak as they are strong. The stronger your offense gets, the weaker your defense gets. Currently the best nuke mage build in the game is a WHOPPING 74 armor, pretty high eh? xD, I am in love with Mastermind armor, never ever been able to get 100% overkill WITHOUT buffs before.

Tbh, normally your posts are clear and concise but I have no clue what you are trying to say here :D

Hullukko
03-27-2011, 02:49 AM
Good point.

That same point works in reverse, too. If you're in an area with average mob armor of, say, 90, a good percent of the hits of the 50-150 will be absorbed by the armor (a "miss", I think), while the 95-105 will land more (no misses due to armor absorption).

Incorrect. Read again what I wrote.

At 90 armor. The 95-105 is making average of 10 damage. The 50-150 will be making 18 average damage (0*4/10+30*6/10). This exactly because when the wider range is hitting "negative" damage it actually gets truncated to 0 damage and that skews the average in favour of the wider range.

Thus, like I said, withe ranges you mentioned the enemy armor being anything between the wider range you're better off with the wider range. Below 50 or above 150, they're equal. And thus, in all circumstances you're better off with the wider range. Hope that makes it clear.


It further goes to show that graphing damage per hit against various armor levels and then normalizing against time is about the only way to get an estimated picture of what the weapons will feel like in battle...


Yes, but for mages it's a lot more complex than that. The weapon dps is such a small factor and spell damage is everything. And there are some oddities at play that haven't been fully figured out yet. The effect of hit% to the enemy dodge roll for one. Another example is why the 55 gemstone 1H swords give better spell damage even though their damage range is smaller than that of the axes (I'm not confusing dps here with base damage, the base damage range of a gemstone axe IS higher than that of the sword but wield the sword and your skill damages are higher. I dunno why.)



What I'm not sure is if we, like mobs, have some minimum damage when a hit is landed, regardless of armor. For instance, we can armor up all we want and drop into FH, but we'll still take 5-6 damage per landed hit. (That's where H/s starts to matter more, too. It can quickly erase those minimum hit "scratches.") It doesn't really change the calculations any, it just means we'd always be a tiny bit useful instead of totally useless in the worst cases. :)

There is a minimum damage inflicted when a hit lands. I can't recall what it is exactly, but it's there.

WhoIsThis
03-27-2011, 10:15 AM
Yes, but for mages it's a lot more complex than that. The weapon dps is such a small factor and spell damage is everything. And there are some oddities at play that haven't been fully figured out yet. The effect of hit% to the enemy dodge roll for one. Another example is why the 55 gemstone 1H swords give better spell damage even though their damage range is smaller than that of the axes (I'm not confusing dps here with base damage, the base damage range of a gemstone axe IS higher than that of the sword but wield the sword and your skill damages are higher. I dunno why.)


1. Do I hit? Up to 85-86% chance of hitting a target or your hit %, whichever is lower.
2. Does the target dodge? It depends on the targets dodge.

So the real chance of hitting is your hit % OR hit cap (whichever is lower) - enemy dodge.



For spell damage, it's been established that 1 handed weapons give a higher percentage of their damage to skill damage 95 - 100% versus 2h weapons which are usually in the 70s.

Hullukko
03-28-2011, 03:36 AM
1. Do I hit? Up to 85-86% chance of hitting a target or your hit %, whichever is lower.
2. Does the target dodge? It depends on the targets dodge.

So the real chance of hitting is your hit % OR hit cap (whichever is lower) - enemy dodge.


So sure of yourself, are you?
The physiologic's guide to advanced mechanics is inconclusive in this matter. He did not try out different enemy dodges nor did he try lower values of hit%. Thus where, when and if the cap takes place was left undetermined. There are many experienced players here suggesting that the hit percentage might play a role in the enemy dodge roll in a sense that a player would benefit froma hit% higher than 85. In a sense that even if the max obtainable successful hit rate would be 85%, some people are saying that against enemies with higher dodge it might be beneficial to have a hit percentage higher than that.

What physiologic did was prove that one cannot hit above a certain rate. That is not the same as a player should not have a higher hit percentage than that rate.
Based on those tests one cannot say that a hit percentage above 85% would be useless. He proved that one cannot hit with a higher success rate than that, but he used very high values of hit% there leaving the question of how would have a hit% of 85 performed there.

The point being that, those results do not show that what is at play is a cap, it may also be a minimum miss-rate of 15%. If the latter is the case and hit percentage plays a role in enemy dodge roll then there is a difference between successfull hits between having hit% at 85 or at, say, 95. Now, that is hypothetical, I don't know which is it. All I'm saying that in the absence of other data the results are inconclusive in this matter.

My personal hunch on the matter is that I hit better with a gear set-up where my hit% is 100ish than what I do with a 85, but I cant say for sure. This is something I've been meaning to determine by experiments but I haven't gotten around to do that. Just wait and see.


For spell damage, it's been established that 1 handed weapons give a higher percentage of their damage to skill damage 95 - 100% versus 2h weapons which are usually in the 70s.

Oh, come on. I was referring to the one handed gemstone sword and one handed gemstone axe. The axe has higher base damage, but lower skill damage. That is something I have not seen explained yet. The difference between them, apart from being an axe and a sword, is in the hit rate. It's as if a higher the hit rate carries a slight negative effect on spell damage. This is an example that there's more to it than just handedness.

I have not seen a thread where the "base damage -> spell damage" relation is fully explained. If there is one, please give a pointer.

Peterlawl
03-28-2011, 06:08 AM
Ok so i want to make a nuker i wanna deal the maximum ammount of damage with the best protection possible how should i allocate my skills? Please explain why. You can use 6 1 1 6 corridence i understand what it means. Just never had a mage
I'm only a lvl 33, but I've found great success with a couple of things when it comes to a pure INT mage:
-As a pure INT mage you're not going to have alot of health, so I either recommend doing dungeons with friends, or getting some good items with a decent health regen.
-On my mage I use 6 BOV, 1 BOM, 6 Lightning, 6 Firestorm, 6 Ice Storm, 6 Health
-People say that my method may be unorthodox, but as a nuke mage you should be worried about 2 things:
1.Healing yourself and others
2.Doing as much damage as possible (BOV gives a huge boost to DPS and Damage: then use Ice Storm, Lightning, Firestorm)
Hope I helped :)

PS: BOM also gives a small armor bonus :)

WhoIsThis
03-29-2011, 10:29 PM
So sure of yourself, are you?
The physiologic's guide to advanced mechanics is inconclusive in this matter. He did not try out different enemy dodges nor did he try lower values of hit%. Thus where, when and if the cap takes place was left undetermined. There are many experienced players here suggesting that the hit percentage might play a role in the enemy dodge roll in a sense that a player would benefit froma hit% higher than 85. In a sense that even if the max obtainable successful hit rate would be 85%, some people are saying that against enemies with higher dodge it might be beneficial to have a hit percentage higher than that.

What physiologic did was prove that one cannot hit above a certain rate. That is not the same as a player should not have a higher hit percentage than that rate.
Based on those tests one cannot say that a hit percentage above 85% would be useless. He proved that one cannot hit with a higher success rate than that, but he used very high values of hit% there leaving the question of how would have a hit% of 85 performed there.

The point being that, those results do not show that what is at play is a cap, it may also be a minimum miss-rate of 15%. If the latter is the case and hit percentage plays a role in enemy dodge roll then there is a difference between successfull hits between having hit% at 85 or at, say, 95. Now, that is hypothetical, I don't know which is it. All I'm saying that in the absence of other data the results are inconclusive in this matter.

My personal hunch on the matter is that I hit better with a gear set-up where my hit% is 100ish than what I do with a 85, but I cant say for sure. This is something I've been meaning to determine by experiments but I haven't gotten around to do that. Just wait and see.

Until we get opponents that debuff us - which would admittedly be quite interesting to see, we really don't need anything that high unless you PvP, in which case you WILL get debuffed regularly.

I'm not talking about Physiologic's guide only, although he has the most in depth (and really, only) written article. I have tested myself and concluded that there isn't any noticeable difference between 90% and 100%+. If there is, it is probably in the low single digits unless of course, you are debuffed. One easy way to test if you want is to use the same level, test with 2 characters (if you have them) and to see. This has the advantage of costing no platinum. Ideally, you'll want 3; one of each class, a strength-oriented character such as a bear or perhaps a pally (lowest hit %), int mage (around 100% now), and a dex bird (very high). They don't have to be very high level to test this. Record with camera, and count % of hits. Write down results and see if there is a difference. Of particular interest is the mage vs. the bird's hit rate.


And for the sake of argument, let us say that you are correct. What are your equipment recommendations? Bear in mind that something with a hit % boost, namely Mastermind, Flusher, or Scrubber means giving something else up (Shadow is also a viable alternative, as is Cosmos). You will have to justify that the loss in that something over the common consensus, as currently mega mage (which most people consider to be the best choice as it offers a good compromise between survivability and high base damage) does not offer any hit % increases. Another thing to consider is that even if you were correct, the laws of diminishing returns also begins to apply.