AOE mages, WATCH WHERE YOU GO BOMBING!!!!!

[azulflame]

Anybody that has played in Balefort Castle Coblin Stronghold could relate to this. The mages that have AOE attacks (lvl 10+) need to watch where they put their stormes. i have been killed by a careless mage that doesn't watch where she places a fire storm. whenever it is put near a barrel or a fire trap, a lot of people in the party die, i have been killed probably 50 times that way, and it is really making me mad. If my mage can watch where she is going and not detonate a fire trap, then yours can too!

not trying to troll or flame, just trying to keep my death count down

[Pharcyde]

Every class does this, I can't tell you how many times I got barrel blasted by a careless bear or bird. Not just mages who are guilty of this.

[azulflame]

yeah, but i have noticed it by far the most with mage

[azulflame]

i know, but most of the mages i see don't care. that is why i almost never use auto attack. i usually detonate stuff near enemies and the other side in pvp. then, i know how to make a show

[Pharcyde]

Wait until you get higher level, all 3 classes are just as lazy, useless, and care free. It's not the class, it's the people your playing with. Thats why you should find good friends or groups of people to play with, that way you don't have to deal with your average public match idiot.

[Junside]

I'm not entirely sure, but I think it kinda takes a lot to make them blow up faster than they're supposed to.

[Tiliana]

Many good players have different playing styles and when they come together in a PUG...well kAboom.

I personally try to lead the group as we come upon barrels so I can explode them before everyone gets too close and then we have a little more leeway to fire away. my mana shield covers any blast and my regen rate replenishes my mana. That allows me to better work with my team with my better forms of attack.

The problem of course is when others have a different idea and don't understand what I am doing and then rush into the blast before I realize they are there. I then heal them and/or Rez them and rebuff them. Not sure why kill/death ratios are a big deal, but to some they are. The best way to run in a PUG is to not assume everyone plays the game the same way you do. There are many ways to play well, not just one way. You should always study how the other players in the group play as you run through the map. It is a true sign of a good player who can adjust their styles to work best with whoever you are with and to calmly and kindly teach others.

Again, people have no patience with others...I leave any map where one of the players start maligning everyone for not doing things "the right way". That is the sign of a prima donna not a leader.

[Kalielle]

I'm going to come out and say I do this all the time. Go ahead and flame me please :p

I think it's actually a bear's responsibility to make sure the fight doesn't happen over a fire grate. A lot of bears are just too timid about rounding up mobs. They walk 3 steps until they're barely level with the first 3 mobs, then immediately beckon them even if they're right on top of a fire grate. At that point my choices as mage are a) attack and get the grate too or b) don't fight, or perhaps use single target attacks only which is pretty much the equivalent (seriously does anyone ever do that, other than with cockroach after the bins respanwed?). I don't attack grates or barrels if there's no one around, but if the fight ends up over a grate because that's where the tank decided to put it, the grate is gonna get attacked too.

Mobs in BS maps have pretty long leashes for a reason. As a bear the thing to do is run ahead until you're past the fire traps and find a good place to gather the mobs, like at the end of the corridor. Also you can detonate barrels with beckon and if you do it from across the corridor from them you don't even get injured - I try to do this ahead of time if I think the fight will be so close to the barrels that they'll end up blowing up. (And I'm not just trying to lay blame on a class other than mine - I actually play my bear more than my mage these days).

Oh yeah and btw, don't play with me if you're worried about your k/d ratio. :P I do try to keep people alive and I actually cringe inside every time someone dies and I'm tank. But for me this game was meant to be played and I'll always aim for farming efficiency rather than minimizing deaths. Oh and my k/d is pretty awful on all my alts, I'm sure, but I can't say I've checked recently or really care.

[Physiologic]

Just for kicks, I put on a damage pot today, went over to a grate clear of enemies, and attacked it with all my might using a high crit/high damage equip combo. It did not explode prematurely. I did this many times as well, up to 5 minutes and not a single time it exploded.

What gives?

[EpuYue]

I hate it when that happens too.. worse still, sometimes some players for god knows what reason shoot the barrel when there are no enemies around at all, while me or other team members are just running past it. -_-

[WhoIsThis]

Just for kicks, I put on a damage pot today, went over to a grate clear of enemies, and attacked it with all my might using a high crit/high damage equip combo. It did not explode prematurely. I did this many times as well, up to 5 minutes and not a single time it exploded.

What gives?

Competing interests. Some players tend to play very conservatively. They want the lowest amount of deaths possible and everything else is a lower priority. Others like yourself, me, and Kalielle want maximum damage output, quick runs, and the highest kills in a given amount of time. We tend to take risks, charge in, and do things that other players find disagreeable, such as use abilities near fire vents.

[Physiologic]

Competing interests. Some players tend to play very conservatively. They want the lowest amount of deaths possible and everything else is a lower priority. Others like yourself, me, and Kalielle want maximum damage output, quick runs, and the highest kills in a given amount of time. We tend to take risks, charge in, and do things that other players find disagreeable, such as use abilities near fire vents.

Actually I just wanted to test out what amount of damage or combo actually sets off grates but was unable to reproduce a "premature grate explosion" with my bird :/

[Sky../]

I notice grates only go kaboom prematurely when the fire/smoke is alreay big. When it's barely smoking, you can aoe all you want and it won't go off.

[WhoIsThis]

Actually I just wanted to test out what amount of damage or combo actually sets off grates but was unable to reproduce a "premature grate explosion" with my bird :/

Blast shot over a grate will do it in many cases.

[Physiologic]

Blast shot over a grate will do it in many cases.

Are you certain about this?

From my findings, a grate explosion is exactly 4 seconds from the moment the tinge of fire appears to the actual explosion where damage is incurred. In-between explosion time actually is variable anywhere from 5 seconds to 7 seconds.

I used grates from Stronghold and Swill Pitz; all enemies were cleared before the experiment took place. I timed the grate explosion using my own voice and Acoustica to record (saying start and stop). In all instances, the grate explosion was 4 seconds if I did not attack the grate at all. I then attacked the grate using a 2x damage pot far from the grate for the full duration of the pot; every single skill was used and spammed but the grate's explosion was still 4 seconds. I then used a tanker's pot and a 2x damage pot and stood right on top of the grate and spammed my skills, but every single instance the grate was still on the 4 second timer.

[Conradin]

Good old physiologic - wise as yoda - cool as a ninja

[Moogerfooger]

Wait until you get higher level, all 3 classes are just as lazy, useless, and care free. It's not the class, it's the people your playing with. Thats why you should find good friends or groups of people to play with, that way you don't have to deal with your average public match idiot.

I love the last four words of this quote :D

[karmakali]

Anyone else just get a visual of Physiologic sitting in his apartment surrounded by tech gear and pepsi cans yelling out START......STOP.....
:)

[WhoIsThis]

Are you certain about this?

From my findings, a grate explosion is exactly 4 seconds from the moment the tinge of fire appears to the actual explosion where damage is incurred. In-between explosion time actually is variable anywhere from 5 seconds to 7 seconds.

I used grates from Stronghold and Swill Pitz; all enemies were cleared before the experiment took place. I timed the grate explosion using my own voice and Acoustica to record (saying start and stop). In all instances, the grate explosion was 4 seconds if I did not attack the grate at all. I then attacked the grate using a 2x damage pot far from the grate for the full duration of the pot; every single skill was used and spammed but the grate's explosion was still 4 seconds. I then used a tanker's pot and a 2x damage pot and stood right on top of the grate and spammed my skills, but every single instance the grate was still on the 4 second timer.

When you attack it, there is a probability of it exploding. I have died before when there were enemies over the grate and a friendly archer used blast shot, causing the grate to explode, killing me and several bandit boys.

The mage spell fire blast is the worst offender and possibly the most likely to trigger it, hence the OP's anger. Perhaps this is because of it's wide blast radius (12m blast AOE, damages all enemies around it and can combo with ice storm for "hot flash"). I do not know whether the presence of enemies increases the probability of it exploding though. It certainly is possible. Another theory I have is the proximity of the caster to the grate causes the probability (and damage output of the grate) to increase as the caster gets closer to the grate. Furthermore, for bears, stomping and taunting near the grate has been known to trigger explosions. Someone else told me that that using thorn wall on an enemy that is directly above the centre of the grate may cause an explosion too when the flame starts.


I think Physiologic, we may want to create a separate thread to discuss this matter further as I do not wish to hijack this thread.

[Physiologic]

Anyone else just get a visual of Physiologic sitting in his apartment surrounded by tech gear and pepsi cans yelling out START......STOP.....
:)

It is pretty creepy when I think of myself testing in 3rd person perspective :)

In any case, I may make a new thread on this whole grate problem. Soloing as an archer I was unable to re-create the premature grate explosion, so perhaps there are a lot of other factors at play.

[Tengotengo]

let's all be honest here...

it's hilAAARIOUS to kill another player via barrels. Many time it's almost as funny when you yourself die. Screaming and skittering off into the distance. I'll admit I've done it. Especially in Shadow Caves, where we're all going to die many times anyway.

Also it's not funny when there's elixirs involved. Other than that...pretty funny.

[Necrobane]

I expect the birds in my group to destroy barrels before my group gets near them, and in return in BS I keep my mobs away from fire traps.

[Sky../]

Premature grate explosion... Sounds... Wrong...

[Ellyidol]

I won't deny, I've had my share of causing grate-exploding :P (Not that I do it on purpose).

It's weird at times, because as far as I know, taunting a "burning" or pre-exploding grate definitely gives you that "chain fire blast" which usually kills anyone. But taunting right after it blows up, doesn't seem to do anything nor will taunting it from a distance (mobs next to it still get ! so I assume the grate is also taunted).

After which, there are a few times I notice that grates don't get set off by aoe attacks (stomp at least). Especially in catacombs, there are 3 times that I beckon next to fire grates, in which case I stomp, but nothing seems to be set off - granted it usually explodes before I stomp.

So my conclusion is, from a bear's perspective, is just to avoid taunting a burning grate before explosion, and you should be fine.

Like Attack said, perhaps another thread to actually compile what does/does not set off grates?

[Necrobane]

Elly, that's probably because stomp has a maximum amount of enemies it can effect at once. Their were obviously too many mobs.

[Ellyidol]

Elly, that's probably because stomp has a maximum amount of enemies it can effect at once. Their were obviously too many mobs.

Mobs could be as little as 3 excluding the grate though.

The second grate of Catacombs (the one with a small cave-in by the hallway) usually has 3-4 mobs for me to beckon, thats when I notice this.

[Necrobane]

Hmm interesting..I wonder why? I have found that at a certain range stomp doesn't work. Like the damage shows, but they don't move. Very exact though, don't know if this is it?

[ikoyon]

But....but.....iko likey big boom......... :(

[Ellyidol]

Hmm interesting..I wonder why? I have found that at a certain range stomp doesn't work. Like the damage shows, but they don't move. Very exact though, don't know if this is it?

That's true too! At times the opposite, I stomp right next to the mobs, but nothing happens. Can't be all of them dodge at the same time.

[Kalielle]

This made me curious about the grates and I had to go off and do some testing. I didn't do it as precisely as Physiologic (no timer at hand and I'm not searching for one before I had my coffee :D), but it seems Elly is right that taunting etc a grate that's about to explode triggers one or two extra explosions.

Actually it seems the grate is not even attackable all the time. Just before an explosion it becomes a target with a health bar and threat bubble, but if you try to click on it at other times it's just like clicking on the floor. I think anytime the grate is "attackable", attacking it will cause an extra explosion.

For the record, I did the experiments with the second grate in catacombs. There were a few mobs left somewhere else in the map but not in this area. The first grate didn't seem to go off at all for some reason, not even on a timer. So maybe we shouldn't assume that all grates are the same.

This was funny - while I was experimenting a random level 20 joined and started running around me and the grate. I told them I was just testing but I don't know if they saw. They got killed a couple of times by the grate. Nothing I could do but just sit there and watch, scratching my head :confused:.

[WhoIsThis]

Actually it seems the grate is not even attackable all the time. Just before an explosion it becomes a target with a health bar and threat bubble, but if you try to click on it at other times it's just like clicking on the floor. I think anytime the grate is "attackable", attacking it will cause an extra explosion.

The grate is only attackable when there is a small flame emerging, signalling the explosion. Otherwise, it is passive. Attacking it does not assure an explosion either. I have often had to hit it with as many as 4-5 shots from a sentinel shotgun to trigger an explosion sometimes. This is very annoying as teammates will often rush ahead as I am blasting the grate when I am trying to minimize vent deaths by triggering a premature explosion.

[Plasticuproject]

I'm going to come out and say I do this all the time. Go ahead and flame me please :p

I think it's actually a bear's responsibility to make sure the fight doesn't happen over a fire grate. A lot of bears are just too timid about rounding up mobs. They walk 3 steps until they're barely level with the first 3 mobs, then immediately beckon them even if they're right on top of a fire grate. At that point my choices as mage are a) attack and get the grate too or b) don't fight, or perhaps use single target attacks only which is pretty much the equivalent (seriously does anyone ever do that, other than with cockroach after the bins respanwed?). I don't attack grates or barrels if there's no one around, but if the fight ends up over a grate because that's where the tank decided to put it, the grate is gonna get attacked too.

Mobs in BS maps have pretty long leashes for a reason. As a bear the thing to do is run ahead until you're past the fire traps and find a good place to gather the mobs, like at the end of the corridor. Also you can detonate barrels with beckon and if you do it from across the corridor from them you don't even get injured - I try to do this ahead of time if I think the fight will be so close to the barrels that they'll end up blowing up. (And I'm not just trying to lay blame on a class other than mine - I actually play my bear more than my mage these days).

Oh yeah and btw, don't play with me if you're worried about your k/d ratio. :P I do try to keep people alive and I actually cringe inside every time someone dies and I'm tank. But for me this game was meant to be played and I'll always aim for farming efficiency rather than minimizing deaths. Oh and my k/d is pretty awful on all my alts, I'm sure, but I can't say I've checked recently or really care.

I agree. Bears should place mobs in a spot where mages can use their aoe skills safely. Don't blame it all on the mages.

[Physiologic]

To everyone who is testing triggering a premature explosion (that actually damages you) can you time the length of the start of the fire to the actual explosion itself?

[Duke]

The simple solution is, of course, to stay away from the grates and barrels, rather than insist that mob-clearing mages doing their job hold back instead.

Geez, with all of the health and armor a bear has, like they even notice it anyway, especially if the mages are heal spamming?

Also note that sometimes we get bit by the lag bug, and things we thought were fired off in location A or at target B winds up really being at location C or target D. We can't always control these thing, so it's back to point #1 -- stay away from the danger zone!

[Moogerfooger]

The simple solution is, of course, to stay away from the grates and barrels, rather than insist that mob-clearing mages doing their job hold back instead.

Geez, with all of the health and armor a bear has, like they even notice it anyway, especially if the mages are heal spamming?

Also note that sometimes we get bit by the lag bug, and things we thought were fired off in location A or at target B winds up really being at location C or target D. We can't always control these thing, so it's back to point #1 -- stay away from the danger zone!

Some areas of BS, it is impossible to stay completely free of barrels and grates; you can only try to maneuver/time running by them to avoid as many as possible. To say "Just stay away from them" is.....less than realistic.

Bears can die easily, even with 150+ armor, by double crit hits from traps. Been there, done that....one time I was even running a 180ish armor setup....still dead. You know what triggered it? Two mages (none here) standing next to me, right near a live trap that I went out of my way to not taunt near (and set it off on them) both fireblasting simultaneously, setting off the trap, blowing me across the map into another to get re-critted.

I have played mage as well, and know it is difficult in certain areas on certain maps to not hit a barrel or grate...but it is mostly doable with a little experience and attention.

Agreed on the lag issues, that just happens to us all sometimes.

[CanonicalKoi]

I hate it when that happens too.. worse still, sometimes some players for god knows what reason shoot the barrel when there are no enemies around at all, while me or other team members are just running past it. -_-

Sorry, had to laugh. A friend of mine and I do this all the time to one another. We do try to make sure there isn't any collateral damage. :)

ETA: haven't noticed a big problem with mages setting off the grates. Occasionally, they'll Firestorm my target, pulling me forward onto a grate, but hey, that happens. What I have run into is mages that don't want to stay with the rest of the group. Two mages, two bird's and a tank in the Stronghold is the worst in the "maze" right before the King and Queen. Tank leads, I and the other bird stick behind him and the mages take off the opposite way. Somebody winds up dead, you can't get a Rez since they don't know where you are and are too busy doing the offensive thing to try and find you. If you want to split up to try and clear faster fine and dandy, but maybe a Mage with each group would be a good idea to settle on?

[lilbyrdie]

it's hilAAARIOUS to kill another player via barrels. Many time it's almost as funny when you yourself die. Screaming and skittering off into the distance. I'll admit I've done it. Especially in Shadow Caves, where we're all going to die many times anyway.


I find it far funnier when I kill myself with a barrel and someone is around to witness it. I forget where, but on one boss battle with me the only mage, I had to keep running back. And since I passed by two barrels along the way, I'd amuse myself by wanding them while going by...

All I'll say is I was only witnessed exploding myself once. So that's how many times it happened. ;)

Back to the topic...

The reason mages are picked on more for this issue is that mages have more AOE attacks and most of their damage is with AOE. If you want us to help either stay away from stuff we can explode or just deal with the explosions. If you place the mobs in between barrels, there's not much we can do to move the mobs (see, our main "push" attack is also an AOE... and we sure won't be getting aggro without lightning...)

And back to Physiologic's readings... if the timing is really 4 plus 5-7 seconds, then you're guaranteed to have multiple explosions timed exactly with attacks. Sounds like pure coincidence to me with the grates.

[frostine]

There seems to be a sewer attitude in general in the lower depths of BF. I fully support constructive criticism. Being rude on the other hand isn't acceptable, no matter the class. For example, I saw someone say, "we need a real bird" as the group I was with was killing a boss. The bird then proceeded to leave. To be honest, I don't blame him. Meanwhile I'm thinking, "Gee thanks...there goes our nature strike."

If the game gets frustrating to the point where you can't handle directing others in a cordial manner, chances are you need to take a break. Not directed at anyone here, just a general observation.

I do however, want to point out that I have found plenty of people who are great at leading groups. Leaders who don't direct with hostility tend to build the best groups and have more timely and successful runs. Some of that patience needs to come down to the sewers and stifle some of the gutter mouth going on down there...;)

[LADYHADASSA]

The issue with all player types is that when lets say for example roach his barrels return..... many do not knowmwhat KITE means... Nor do most mages realize that fire is a powerful lil tool when used correctley, nor do many dexs realize not to use repuls or bears not to stomp..... As some stated above... Pay closer attention to who you are framing with or.... As i do say wait.... And say directley no mage fire no repulse no stomp... If i must exp why i will. Lends to teacjing and better play,

Although on occasion I will have a player who acts as if they drank 19 pots of coffe, is not a team player and ignores the one who makes the room.... In that case after trying.. I will boot for the sake of other players.

But most when you are patient are eger to learn :)

[Ayrilana]

Grates don't explode early if you use skills. I sat there attacking them with an attack pot and not one exploded early. The ONLY damage I took was from the one blast that occurs about 4 seconds after the flames start. Just because you see someone use a skill and a grate explode, doesn't mean they caused it to explode. The only "explosion" that skills do is that little animation you get each time you hit it but it doesn't cause any damage. This is just another Pocket Legends myth.

[azulflame]

That's true too! At times the opposite, I stomp right next to the mobs, but nothing happens. Can't be all of them dodge at the same time.

well, when you have 65 hit%...

[CosmoxKramer]

i like to run ahead of the group when i know there is a barrel and firestorm it so it doesn't blow up on anyone.

[skavenger216]

well, when you have 65 hit%...

I wish I could say that was elly's problem, but my bear has 96% hit, and I get the same problem with stomp. My beckons seem a lot more consistent than with my 70-ish hit setup, but I still get the occasional failed beckon where like zero enemies get pulled.

[Caloy]

I usually just blast the barrels before I approach it. That way, I don't have to accuse everyone who's concentrating on dishing out all his spells while fighting. I think that's the only way you can make sure you won't be in the blast zone when it explodes.

[razerfingers]

birds drop like flies cause of the fire traps its rediculous how many times a bird can die in a run in balefort sewers