Can Warriors expect some adjustment?

[ueveotadeo]

Hi there,

This is for sure a controversial topic. On forums we have mixed opinions whether warriors really need a buff/skill adjustment. So, let's just say this, warriors got AT LEAST 2 skills with descriptions that don't match what they do (CS and Axe Throw), so at least here, we need some adjustments. I'll not go into whether we need some review on our taunts or anything right now.

Now, this has been bugging me since the time I quit the game. As everybody is aware (or at least should be), the amount of "one hit kills" has been constantly increasing, ankh sinking maps are becoming an essential aspect of the game. Why am I saying this? Lets think about what a Warriors job is:

-Warriors must hold aggro so other party members won't be hit, making ankh/pot consuming less necessary.

Now imagine that CS can actualy cancel boss windups, that axe throw can pull bosses when needed making them attack far from the more "squish" party members, what will happen?

Ankh/pot consuming will decrease, hence plat spending will also decrease.

All of that leads to this question, which I do hope someone will answer, with the game becoming more and more plat demanding, can we expect an update that will make warriors somewhat more able to diminish ankh waste to be made?

If you guys are paying any attention to forums, several suggestions, not only on Warr skill adjustment, but on some other "hot topics" have been made, the fact that I'm not mentioning them here is just because I don't see the point of repeating something constantly, whether you read it and are thinking on it, or you just ignored it.

The point here is to know if warriors can expect something or they will just become "playable pets"

[eugene9707]

The point here is to know if warriors can expect something or they will just become "playable pets"

like mage ? :D

[mxzgrawp]

I'd expect STG to do something,especially that new Expansion is coming out and New items too,still waiting for warriors and mages to be buffed as for the moment the ranking goes: rogue>war>mage.
Oh and Hi by the way Skip.

[Tatman]

No, you can't expect any adjustments lol.

Ok, on a more serious note. I agree that things like axe pulling all bosses would be really nice. Same goes for cs cancelling boss windups, although I doubt STS would actually implement this, since it would mean a drastic decrease in deaths at bosses, hence less plat/ankhs, hence less income. Some party buffs and/or mobs debuffs would be nice too.

I have some questions about aggro though. I've run with you probably 5 times or so, but that's enough for me to know that I can stand in the middle of a big pull and rarely get hit at all. How come that you can do this and other warriors can't? How come that with some warriors the first trap I set and I'm dead? How come that some warriors can aggro Taurus to the point where I can combo him and not get hit, while with others he'd chase me all over the place? I don't know if it's build, gear, timing or whatever, but it's obviously possible for a tank to keep aggro quite well in this game.

[merch_master]

Lol..taurus runs further away when i use axe throw....the least i hope is war taunt skills should precede any other taunt....i use windmill around the boss and he doesnt even glance at me (im not that ugly :( )....wars need bettr aggro holding
Nd its rogue/mage/................tank at the moment

[merch_master]

* rogue > mage >.......................tank

[GoodSyntax]

It is a combination of skill, gear and timing.

Remember, that for the most part, Warrior skills have relatively long cooldowns. So, even with a 4 taunt build, if tanks don't rotate their skills effectively, taunt falls off, and so other aggro mechanisms take place. Damage is one of the biggest aggro generators, so this disproportionately impacts Rogues. DoT and Healing are other aggro generators, which impact Sorcs.

So, if a tank spams all 4 taunt skills at once, when the taunt wears out, the other aggro generators take effect, and for the remainder of the cooldown, bosses/mobs are looking at the squishies.

There was a time when average tanks appeared to be great tanks, simply because of gear. These days, only the most skilled tanks are viable in party, and we have really started to see how much skill and timing is demanded from our tanks. The days of a Warrior just button mashing ended with Tindirin.



As far as the OP, I'm hoping that there are some substantial upgrades to our Warrior friends. To be honest, I would have hoped that STS would have focused on the tanks first.

I run with tanks quite a bit, and with the exceptions of a bunch in my guild and friends list, most tanks I find in PUGs simply are unskilled and ineffective. One of the main benefits of having a tank in party is that you can do those crazy pulls, but if your tank can't seem to hold aggro, or worse, dies before the squishies, then it is hard to justify having tanks in your party. There is no reason why my Rogue, with 1k less armor and half the HP, can fight inside a mob cluster and out-last most decently geared tanks.

If a tank taunts, I shouldn't be able to steal aggro so quickly, so something tells me that the current taunt isn't effective enough, and doesn't last long enough. Feeble should also be a bit more effective. Feebled bosses still one-hit squishies, so no real value added there. Chest Splitter should be cancelling windups, otherwise, even with it's fast cooldown, it is weak and does very little damage.

I would also like to see a "hot zone" in Windmill, kind of like how a baseball bat has a sweet spot, Windmill should have a sweet spot as well. Mobs/Opponents that get hit in the sweet spot should take extra damage.

I don't know, I've discussed all of these ideas before....

[merch_master]

It is a combination of skill, gear and timing.

Remember, that for the most part, Warrior skills have relatively long cooldowns. So, even with a 4 taunt build, if tanks don't rotate their skills effectively, taunt falls off, and so other aggro mechanisms take place. Damage is one of the biggest aggro generators, so this disproportionately impacts Rogues. DoT and Healing are other aggro generators, which impact Sorcs.

So, if a tank spams all 4 taunt skills at once, when the taunt wears out, the other aggro generators take effect, and for the remainder of the cooldown, bosses/mobs are looking at the squishies.

There was a time when average tanks appeared to be great tanks, simply because of gear. These days, only the most skilled tanks are viable in party, and we have really started to see how much skill and timing is demanded from our tanks. The days of a Warrior just button mashing ended with Tindirin.



As far as the OP, I'm hoping that there are some substantial upgrades to our Warrior friends. To be honest, I would have hoped that STS would have focused on the tanks first.

I run with tanks quite a bit, and with the exceptions of a bunch in my guild and friends list, most tanks I find in PUGs simply are unskilled and ineffective. One of the main benefits of having a tank in party is that you can do those crazy pulls, but if your tank can't seem to hold aggro, or worse, dies before the squishies, then it is hard to justify having tanks in your party. There is no reason why my Rogue, with 1k less armor and half the HP, can fight inside a mob cluster and out-last most decently geared tanks.

If a tank taunts, I shouldn't be able to steal aggro so quickly, so something tells me that the current taunt isn't effective enough, and doesn't last long enough. Feeble should also be a bit more effective. Feebled bosses still one-hit squishies, so no real value added there. Chest Splitter should be cancelling windups, otherwise, even with it's fast cooldown, it is weak and does very little damage.

I would also like to see a "hot zone" in Windmill, kind of like how a baseball bat has a sweet spot, Windmill should have a sweet spot as well. Mobs/Opponents that get hit in the sweet spot should take extra damage.

I don't know, I've discussed all of these ideas before....
Exactly! Our taunt should take precedence and should be stronger
Seriously my axe throw doesnt even make the boss glance towards me...whatever my gaming skill maybe that is very much wrong

[debitmandiri]

No, you can't expect any adjustments lol.

Ok, on a more serious note. I agree that things like axe pulling all bosses would be really nice. Same goes for cs cancelling boss windups, although I doubt STS would actually implement this, since it would mean a drastic decrease in deaths at bosses, hence less plat/ankhs, hence less income. Some party buffs and/or mobs debuffs would be nice too.

I have some questions about aggro though. I've run with you probably 5 times or so, but that's enough for me to know that I can stand in the middle of a big pull and rarely get hit at all. How come that you can do this and other warriors can't? How come that with some warriors the first trap I set and I'm dead? How come that some warriors can aggro Taurus to the point where I can combo him and not get hit, while with others he'd chase me all over the place? I don't know if it's build, gear, timing or whatever, but it's obviously possible for a tank to keep aggro quite well in this game.

I believe that war using 4 taunt skill, with perfect timing, this kind of warrior too rare to find :D

[tharidom]

Jug that can actually override freeze-,-

[ueveotadeo]

I believe that war using 4 taunt skill, with perfect timing, this kind of warrior too rare to find :D

That warr was me, and I didn't have a 4 taunt skill set.

[Wazakesy]

From my perspective, once the aggro runs out, the mobs and bosses automatically start to pay attention to the DPS, i had been noticing this when i was running T3. I had instead maintain a pvp style that is by maintaining a long range which also means i am sniping.

That was what i hated the most, i can easily take down PvE as i know how to apply criticals the whole time, sometimes i slip out and forget what step i am on...So i end with normal skill damages. Honestly, I feel warriors are totally useless now, all that you need a war in T3 for would be to park the green giants - I also tried with 2 rogues and 2 sorcerers. It went smoother. I was suprised for when in back in the day warriors were a need in elites, especially nordr - The zone that anyone will rage on and hate. Tanks were mostly required to keep the ice-sharky-giants as they used to hit ridiculously hard. Now for example, if you have a samael user - Tank gets useless as the panic is enough to give time for the rogues to take them down.




______________


Honestly, What i want to see from a warrior - or lets take about an upgrade that shall make them useful. An upgrade in juggernaut, where while juggernaut or HoR is active if the war hits them the mobs get furious and attack the war with all their might. It's not an ordinary aggro, lets be more realistic here - a mage's Lifegiver can actually break the aggro of juggernaut or HoR... - I see no point in a mage's heal that has a stronger aggro than a warrior. On my rogue, if i use heal aggro for the warrior does not break. So why not let the War's taunt be much more stronger? - I mean if planar tombs is deadly why not make warriors useful so that with the help of mage and rogues the tombs may successfully completed as a team?

[merch_master]

From my perspective, once the aggro runs out, the mobs and bosses automatically start to pay attention to the DPS, i had been noticing this when i was running T3. I had instead maintain a pvp style that is by maintaining a long range which also means i am sniping.

That was what i hated the most, i can easily take down PvE as i know how to apply criticals the whole time, sometimes i slip out and forget what step i am on...So i end with normal skill damages. Honestly, I feel warriors are totally useless now, all that you need a war in T3 for would be to park the green giants - I also tried with 2 rogues and 2 sorcerers. It went smoother. I was suprised for when in back in the day warriors were a need in elites, especially nordr - The zone that anyone will rage on and hate. Tanks were mostly required to keep the ice-sharky-giants as they used to hit ridiculously hard. Now for example, if you have a samael user - Tank gets useless as the panic is enough to give time for the rogues to take them down.




______________


Honestly, What i want to see from a warrior - or lets take about an upgrade that shall make them useful. An upgrade in juggernaut, where while juggernaut or HoR is active if the war hits them the mobs get furious and attack the war with all their might. It's not an ordinary aggro, lets be more realistic here - a mage's Lifegiver can actually break the aggro of juggernaut or HoR... - I see no point in a mage's heal that has a stronger aggro than a warrior. On my rogue, if i use heal aggro for the warrior does not break. So why not let the War's taunt be much more stronger? - I mean if planar tombs is deadly why not make warriors useful so that with the help of mage and rogues the tombs may successfully completed as a team?
Exactly....warrior taunts should precede and cancel that of others, thats the one thing we are useful at unless the entire skill system is reworked
As you said, the taunt weakness is extremely evident in T3
If I am "windmilling" and boss continues to run away from me and i have keep following him with my taunt....well that doesn't count up to anything
All I see myself doing these days is using kelvin to stun so the rogues and mages can keep better health with better pets..makes me want to give up on war :(

[Midievalmodel]

The main issue in my honest opinion for warriors especially in the upper echelon of pro players "is not" an inability to maintain adequate taunt. If you play the warrior class correctly you can effectively (80 percent of the time) maintain aggro with timing of your skills. What challenge is there if stg gave us some taunt ability that last for 30 seconds and taunts absolutely 100 percent of the time? Where is the challenge in that? Where you mash one button and stand around without any work and get full taunt? There is something to be said about working and strategizing to maintain taunt...it separates the men from the boys.

So to me the main issue why alot of rogues and mages don't want to run with a warrior is plain and simple........it slows them down. We don't do enough damage and we do not have good enough party/mob debuff or buff skills. That is the true core of the problem. Now I will say for the majority of the player base (70 percent) who have average gear they do want a warrior in the party because it saves them ankhs and pots. But there is a population of pro players (20 percent) who are geared enough and skilled enough where it makes no sense for them to run with a warrior simply for the fact that it slows them down and don't really save them all that much in ankhs because they don't die all that often. Additionally, they are pretty well off and don't really care about spamming ankhs.

Another confounding issue is towards the end of the season gear and stats get much better and people learn how to run the maps much more efficiently. What this does is that it makes warriors even less needed towards the end of seasons. Sure in the beginning of the season the maps are hard and parties don't mind having a warrior in the party to help save their butts while they figure out the maps and strategy. But come end of season.....why on earth would they need warriors anymore? This becomes even true for average gear players towards the end of the season....some of these players if skilled enough don't need to run with a warrior.

I am a decent geared warrior and even I wouldn't run with me either. Hehe.