Producer's Note: On Pet Transfers

[productor]

Hello Folks,
Last week we made an exception to standing policy of not allowing the transfer of pets from one character to another. Remiem commented that we have a one time transfer policy under certain circumstances, with certain pets. Both the transfer and any comments regarding one time transfers were made in error.

We do not offer pet transfers as a service through our customer service group. I apologize for the confusion that this action and comment caused.

We appreciate all the feedback that came up during this issue and will strive to learn from our mistakes as we move forward. Bear in mind that we reserve the right to manage game inventory as needed in service and support of this world that we've worked hard to build.

As always, I encourage you to continue the conversation through constructive discussion.

Much Obliged,

Adrian "Productor" Glover

[Zeus]

Since you've provided this for one person, can you at least right this wrong and allow this to be an option for ALL SnS/LB Exclusive pet owners?

[famousfame]

If it was done in error then correct ur mistake quite simple really :)

"what goes up will come down"

[Zeus]

If it was done in error then correct ur mistake quite simple really :)

"what goes up will come down"

That mage has already purchased other pets now on his account too so if they're going to reverse, they should allow him a refund/reverse everything that resulted due to this pet transfer.


Of course, the easier option would be to allow this for all SnS owners. I'm not sure if I'd ever use it but it's nice to know I'd get the same treatment should I want to transfer the pet.

[Madnex]

Pretty sure that the question going through everyone's mind is: "Will the mistake be rectified?" You see, in the logic that's been currently followed by STS, the people that get to somehow profit by mistakes inside or outside the game which are later corrected always get to keep whatever advantage they unfairly gained. An easy example is the PvE kills exploit and the flagging exploit that were patched yet no action was taken to rectify the effects that these mistakes had on the leaderboards hence the ones that used them continue and will continue to thrive staying on top of them with ease.

In the current case, the mistake can be corrected much easier with a return of the pet to the original toon. I have nothing personal against either party but these situations are exactly what the majority of the players bases the accusations of favoritism to high-paying customers. If you want to make certain rules absolute and expect us to respect and recognize that you must at least make sure your actions don't point at the opposite direction.

[famousfame]

That mage has already purchased other pets now on his account too so if they're going to reverse, they should allow him a refund/reverse everything that resulted due to this pet transfer.


Of course, the easier option would be to allow this for all SnS owners. I'm not sure if I'd ever use it but it's nice to know I'd get the same treatment should I want to transfer the pet.
Why on earth would they give refunds on pets he purchased??????
This about transferring pet from one account to another account, first time I've heard of such and quite astonished sts allowed, now they know it was wrong so right the wrong, simple as pie :)

"what goes up will come down"

[Zeus]

Pretty sure that the question going through everyone's mind is: "Will the mistake be rectified?" You see, in the logic that's been currently followed by STS, the people that get to somehow profit by mistakes inside or outside the game which are later corrected always get to keep whatever advantage they unfairly gained. An easy example is the PvE kills exploit and the flagging exploit that were patched yet no action was taken to rectify the effects that these mistakes had on the leaderboards hence the ones that used them continue and will continue to thrive staying on top of them with ease.

In the current case, the mistake can be corrected much easier with a return of the pet to the original toon. I have nothing personal against either party but these situations are exactly what the majority of the players bases the accusations of favoritism to high-paying customers. If you want to make certain rules absolute and expect us to respect and recognize that you must at least make sure your actions don't point at the opposite direction.


Yes, if they are going to rectify, they should fully rectify as well if the person has now made this mage his main (which I know he has - he only logs onto warrior when called).

[Serancha]

It needs to be corrected, plain and simple.

Giving favouritism to those with a specific pet, especially one which already gives them a huge advantage over others, is just wrong. We have enough of that in this game without STS allowing blatant shows of preference. If I decided to make another toon my main, they wouldn't transfer my Maridos, Sam and Whims to that toon for me. Why should this be different?

[Axesam]

They will not transfer back that sns from that mage to that warrior, remember when they make an error when sns drop from crates? They still give that sns to the lucky ppl who get sns from crates.

So, this will be "im sorry my fault" without any solution.

End of story.

[Justg]

Folks, we make mistakes. Put down the pitchforks please.

[Zeus]

Folks, we make mistakes. Put down the pitchforks please.

Gary, I understand y'all make mistakes and that's okay - we're all humans! However, if y'all could rectify the mistake in a manner that makes people happy instead of hold resentment, that would be much appreciated!

[Justg]

Gary, I understand y'all make mistakes and that's okay - we're all humans! However, if y'all could rectify the mistake in a manner that makes people happy instead of hold resentment, that would be much appreciated!

Lots of elements to balance here Zeus. Appreciate the input.

[Serancha]

Why on earth would they give refunds on pets he purchased??????
This about transferring pet from one account to another account, first time I've heard of such and quite astonished sts allowed, now they know it was wrong so right the wrong, simple as pie :)

"what goes up will come down"

I totally agree with this. Honestly I can't see how one would spend a ton of money on other pets because they had one transferred to what is now their main. Why would they be spending a pile of money on what is now supposedly an alt? What Zeus is saying makes no logical sense. If the person wanted to buy other pets, they were going to buy them.

Adding refunds for in-game transactions is impossible in any case, and since we all know this, the request must be just a smokescreen to allow all S&S owners this unfair privilege.

[famousfame]

I totally agree with this. Honestly I can't see how one would spend a ton of money on other pets because they had one transferred to what is now their main. Why would they be spending a pile of money on what is now supposedly an alt? What Zeus is saying makes no logical sense. If the person wanted to buy other pets, they were going to buy them.

Adding refunds for in-game transactions is impossible in any case, and since we all know this, the request must be just a smokescreen to allow all S&S owners this unfair privilege.
Sera u always one dynamite girl :) who sees through all the smoke screens.

"what goes up will come down"

[Kingofninjas]

Thank you for admitting to an error. It takes a lot of courage and we commend you for that. However, this situation is unfair to all other sns users. There are 2 solutions which come to mind. The more likely one is to allow a 1 time transfer within a set time period for ALL current sns owners regardless of reason. The second one, which I am completely against, is to right the wrong and return the transfered sns to its rightful toon.

[famousfame]

Folks, we make mistakes. Put down the pitchforks please.
Erm that's one pretty big mistake to do, uv basically allowed one player to gain a massive advantage over other PvP players, I understand you guys made mistake so fix that mistake already or are you refusing to do???
Kindly state how you will resolve this or not resolve this.
Look you guys don't play game much and just watch forums for feel of game, well I can tell you that lots of people feel that certain players have been given many unfair advantages in game to the detriment of other players, this is another example of sts cloak and dagger dealings that now exposed are like "oh was a terrible mistake plz forgive us" sorry but any answer but the right answer will not go down well.

"what goes up will come down"

[Zylx]

Folks, we make mistakes. Put down the pitchforks please.

It's not the acceptance that justifies a mistake, it's what's done to correct it. You have two options here: to either accept one time transfers for ALL discontinued pets, or to return the SnS to the original owner.

Edit: darn. Zeus beat me to the punch lol

[Kakashis]

no worries, we're all human! Easiest solution is maybe to transfer that pet back to the original toon that was made in error?

[Ssneakykills]

Lucky guy to have gotten away with transferring his sns over

[Madnex]

Folks, we make mistakes. Put down the pitchforks please.
G, it's not like someone was shot and we're asking you people to take the bullet back. This is easily rectified as it's a single case involving a single person but if the course and stand STS will take on the subject was already decided before walking in here then there's no much point in carrying on the conversation IMO, constructive or not.

When you crack an egg open, you do it willingly knowing that the moment the flashy text saying you've obtained "x" pet pops up, you've "burned" the gold/platinum you spent to acquire it. By allowing a transfer of a capped, high-end, unavailable pet which also happens to be the most expensive in the game you basically gifted 150m to someone. That's a lot to swallow with no signs of availability to make amends from STS' side. Again, this is just my view on things; others might view it more lightly or more seriously.

[Serancha]

Well said, Maddy.

[productor]

Hello Folks,
First, I appreciate the understanding and decorum that many of you have shown.

Our errors are our own, and not the fault of the players who may be affected. We will not cause additional damage to the player experience by attempting to unravel our own errors.

I have a profound respect for the discussions we're able to have through this forum, and I consider it a privileged to chat with you all this closely. As always I encourage you to continue the conversation through constructive discussion.

Much Obliged,

Adrian "Productor" Glover

[Anyona]

I don't understand why you just don't allow this feature to all SnS owners since it's possible. There would be no harm done.

[raw]

Hello Folks,
First, I appreciate the understanding and decorum that many of you have shown.

Our errors are our own, and not the fault of the players who may be affected. We will not cause additional damage to the player experience by attempting to unravel our own errors.

I have a profound respect for the discussions we're able to have through this forum, and I consider it a privileged to chat with you all this closely. As always I encourage you to continue the conversation through constructive discussion.

Much Obliged,

Adrian "Productor" Glover

His Adrian,

Thanks for being transparent and owning up to the mistake - a lot of players will and SHOULD appreciate this. I do see the drama that would come from removing this pet from Love's account, but I do think that this would be the right thing to do. And to counter Zeus' point, why would any player in end game purchase additional pets for an account with an SnS? The rest of his gear (assuming he has imbued, and a planar pendant from his tank) can easily be sold.

Madnex brought up a great point that STG mistakes (or just loopholes that players abuse) are not usually rectified (i.e. PvE kills, PvP dummy farming, PvP Flags etc.), so this issue - although only affecting one person and is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things - makes players lose their confidence. Madnoob who has a SnS at level 10 has been trying to get his reverted since it came out unsuccessfully. I just hope that moving forward the policies are made very clear to all support staff, and that you come up with a way to counter this inherent (or at least seemingly so) favoritism towards certain players. All should be treated equally, and given equal opportunities to be successful.

Anyway thanks again for acknowledging this mistake, and hope it doesn't happen again.

[twoxc]

Last I check was "sorry your pet level is too high, we aren't able to put your pet back into the egg" but now lol oh we can just transfer your pet somewhere else. Sorry but we only doing it for one person in the entire game.

[productor]

His Adrian,

Thanks for being transparent and owning up to the mistake - a lot of players will and SHOULD appreciate this. I do see the drama that would come from removing this pet from Love's account, but I do think that this would be the right thing to do. And to counter Zeus' point, why would any player in end game purchase additional pets for an account with an SnS? The rest of his gear (assuming he has imbued, and a planar pendant from his tank) can easily be sold.

Madnex brought up a great point that STG mistakes (or just loopholes that players abuse) are not usually rectified (i.e. PvE kills, PvP dummy farming, PvP Flags etc.), so this issue - although only affecting one person and is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things - makes players lose their confidence. Madnoob who has a SnS at level 10 has been trying to get his reverted since it came out unsuccessfully. I just hope that moving forward the policies are made very clear to all support staff, and that you come up with a way to counter this inherent (or at least seemingly so) favoritism towards certain players. All should be treated equally, and given equal opportunities to be successful.

Anyway thanks again for acknowledging this mistake, and hope it doesn't happen again.

Hello Raw,
Thanks for your understanding, and the comment about how transparency leads to trust and confidence. While we disagree on the resolution here, I sincerely appreciate the way you have constructed your feedback.

Much Obliged,
Adrian "Productor" Glover

[Zeus]

His Adrian,

Thanks for being transparent and owning up to the mistake - a lot of players will and SHOULD appreciate this. I do see the drama that would come from removing this pet from Love's account, but I do think that this would be the right thing to do. And to counter Zeus' point, why would any player in end game purchase additional pets for an account with an SnS? The rest of his gear (assuming he has imbued, and a planar pendant from his tank) can easily be sold.

Madnex brought up a great point that STG mistakes (or just loopholes that players abuse) are not usually rectified (i.e. PvE kills, PvP dummy farming, PvP Flags etc.), so this issue - although only affecting one person and is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things - makes players lose their confidence. Madnoob who has a SnS at level 10 has been trying to get his reverted since it came out unsuccessfully. I just hope that moving forward the policies are made very clear to all support staff, and that you come up with a way to counter this inherent (or at least seemingly so) favoritism towards certain players. All should be treated equally, and given equal opportunities to be successful.

Anyway thanks again for acknowledging this mistake, and hope it doesn't happen again.

For the sake of having different pets to use when others run in a clash due to having SnS.



However, it seems devs have had their final statement so let's just live and let.

[Sverdysiuss]

Lol, why STS so much insist on keeping that SNS on his mage character? Just put it back to warrior and ALL ppl will be calm...
He already has a huge advantage with SNS on warrior char (he deserve it) but now he will has this advantage again on his mage char?
Really dont understand it.
People make mistakes, thats why is rubber on pencil, but if I do mistake, I will not say "well, I made mistake, but Ill not use rubber, just leave that mistake and deal with it"?

[Ladysophie]

Hmmmm since now its clear that transfer was a mistake and so were the motivations that were brought up to justify it, Productor/JustG, can you please confirm if Shady & Surge won't still be coming back during the Ursoth event?
I really want it :(

[Madnex]

Our errors are our own, and not the fault of the players who may be affected. We will not cause additional damage to the player experience by attempting to unravel our own errors.
I for one am not able to understand how this logic works. This is affecting many people's playing experience, not just one's. An agreeable solution cannot be reached if STS stands firmly and is unwilling to "cross the line" and allow that one-time transfer for the rest of the SnS owners but also denies to rectify the mistake by the shortest way and reverse the transfer back to the warrior toon, which are the only two logical options here.

This is the kind of situation where there's no clearly right solution available so you have to choose which option is best for the greater good - one player's disappointment or the rest of that specific pet's users and the general community. In conclusion, the lack of action is damaging our player experience as well.

As a side-note, there were three pleas made by the same player to convince STS support to bend the rules for his sake. Let us consider for a second what this means about the idea people have for support's organization and effectiveness. An example: Had one player insisted that he deserved double the current gold cap in gold because of how the game has wronged him and after several attempts, someone in the other side (STS support) was convinced and did make the mistake to go forward with the transaction, would you also allow that to remain unchanged because it wasn't his fault? I rest my case.

[Niixed]

I believe STS is right to leave this mistake alone and not reverse the transfer of SNS. What everyone seems to be forgetting is how unfair it would be to that player if STS took back what they did. You all are asking Hell to pay for STS' mistake! How is that right or a good idea?

No its not fair to us, and they shouldn't have done it and it's infuriating. Also some of you are just trying to eek out another exception for yourselves just because u own SNS and want to have the same mistake repeated on you cuz that would be so totally fair or something.

That is what a mistake is, something that should not have happened and shouldn't be repeated! So quit asking STS to make another one (by reversing 1 xfer) or make the same one again (by allowing all SNS owners to xfer).

[carmine_blade]

Thanks for your communication and transparency JustG and Productor- I want to encourage this behaviour so I won't be raising a pitchfork ;) however, strong feelings abound on this issue, largely, I think, because it has tapped into the sense many players have that favouritism is at play (whether this is so or not)...

If you're committed to allowing the SNS that was transferred to remain transferred (and I'm sure you can understand how irate that will make others who want SNS transferred, and personally I don't agree with this decision, though I do accept it), may I suggest then that you do bring SNS back this Ursoth event as an opportunity for people who really want an SNS on x or y character to obtain it? :)

[PhoenixPrime]

The issues I had weren't serious enough to quit over, so I was gently prodding with a stick versus stabbing with a pitchfork.

As for constructive comments:
Can you at least think about some sort of review process for request so that at least 2 sets of eyes go over every request?
It might slow things down a little, but at least people will feel that all requests are being handled fairly and not at the whim of any one person...

[acewasabi]

sts don't want to hurt that player by transferring his SNS back, but they hurt everyone else by letting that SNS stay?

since he already got denied his request many times he should have to return SNS and deal with it.

[Khicho]

So many of you are using this mistake as an obvious attempt to take out your personal feelings on this player. It is not the players responsibility to endure that STS adheres to their own policies and the player should not be punished as a result.

The common sense thing to do here is allow a 1 time transfer to all SnS owners, gg, move on.

[Ravager]

Give Pitra the ability to re-egg "exclusive" pets and make them account bound.

[Twix]

I believe STS is right to leave this mistake alone and not reverse the transfer of SNS. What everyone seems to be forgetting is how unfair it would be to that player if STS took back what they did. You all are asking Hell to pay for STS' mistake! How is that right or a good idea?

No its not fair to us, and they shouldn't have done it and it's infuriating. Also some of you are just trying to eek out another exception for yourselves just because u own SNS and want to have the same mistake repeated on you cuz that would be so totally fair or something.

That is what a mistake is, something that should not have happened and shouldn't be repeated! So quit asking STS to make another one (by reversing 1 xfer) or make the same one again (by allowing all SNS owners to xfer).

Stop kissing sts behind. How is unfair to move back sns to his warior? He crie about not invited to pve but he is PvP warior get through your thick skull

[Niixed]

Give Pitra the ability to re-egg "exclusive" pets and make them account bound.

+1 on this

[Kyle Holmes]

How's it not the guys fault, it is part his fault for asking for it to be transferred anyway so he should suffer the consequences. If it didn't get transferred to that char then what would he be doing now? He would be doing the same stuff he's doing now but without an SnS!!!!!!!!!

[Niixed]

Stop kissing sts behind. How is unfair to move back sns to his warior? He crie about not invited to pve but he is PvP warior get through your thick skull

Your words say a lot about how reasonable you are. Are you going to throw insults or make constructive arguments?

If a mistake was made in your favor and then some time later, after you built your character around it, STS suddenly decided it was going to take it away just because everyone on the forums wanted justice... how would you feel?

[Tatman]

Admitting the mistake is nice. Correcting it would be even nicer.

[Titanfall]

Your words say a lot about how reasonable you are. Are you going to throw insults or make constructive arguments?

If a mistake was made in your favor and then some time later, after you built your character around it, STS suddenly decided it was going to take it away just because everyone on the forums wanted justice... how would you feel?
I wouldnt ask 4 times if I was already denied 3 times

[Niixed]

How's it not the guys fault, it is part his fault for asking for it to be transferred anyway so he should suffer the consequences. If it didn't get transferred to that char then what would he be doing now? He would be doing the same stuff he's doing now but without an SnS!!!!!!!!!

Nobody forced STS to decide in his favor, the final fault lies with them. No, he shouldn't have asked for or expected special treatment but that is what players do. STS should have known better and part of the cost of their mistake is that many of its customers are dissatisfied and some will spend less on the game because of it.

[Zeus]

I believe STS is right to leave this mistake alone and not reverse the transfer of SNS. What everyone seems to be forgetting is how unfair it would be to that player if STS took back what they did. You all are asking Hell to pay for STS' mistake! How is that right or a good idea?

No its not fair to us, and they shouldn't have done it and it's infuriating. Also some of you are just trying to eek out another exception for yourselves just because u own SNS and want to have the same mistake repeated on you cuz that would be so totally fair or something.

That is what a mistake is, something that should not have happened and shouldn't be repeated! So quit asking STS to make another one (by reversing 1 xfer) or make the same one again (by allowing all SNS owners to xfer).

This is exactly what I'm getting at and people are just brushing aside. Thank you for wording it in a way that I could not.



I can't get my SnS transferred but I'm letting it go. There's more things to be worried about than who has SnS on what character.

[Zeus]

Absolutely, I say put that pet back where it belongs. When you split the SNS from the warrior account, you're essentially giving that person a free SNS (or say 150m gold for free). Look at it like this, when I purchased Nekro, my Samael became a retired war veteran. Sam just sits in the stable and collects dust; I never use him anymore. This is how the natural progression should be, where a new pet replaces an older pet. If STS moved my Samael to my rogue (who currently uses Blinky), they're basically giving me a free Samael. This same situation is true with that SNS. It is unfair to the entire community to make this one exception.

If you look back to my original post where I brought this situation to light, you will see that towards the end of my post, I said that I had considered using that information to leverage moving my Samael to my rogue. However, as I said in that post, it was not the right thing to do, so I decided to go public with the information for the greater good of the game. The rules were very black and white before; let's not make them fuzzy and gray.

He bought the pet with gold.




Free means no cost. He could not have transferred SnS if he did not buy or win it in the first place so it cannot be free. SNS can no longer be purchased either so this analogy does not work.

I agree with you on many things but asking a player to pay for a mistake that was not his isn't right either.

[Twix]

He bought the pet with gold.




Free means no cost. He could not have transferred SnS if he did not buy or win it in the first place so it cannot be free. SNS can no longer be purchased either so this analogy does not work.

I agree with you on many things but asking a player to pay for a mistake that was not his isn't right either.

No way sherlock I thoght he trade platinum tosomon for it. Not his mistak? He ask sts 4x to transfer pet and your sayits mistake.

[Candylicks]

This is exactly what I'm getting at and people are just brushing aside. Thank you for wording it in a way that I could not.



I can't get my SnS transferred but I'm letting it go. There's more things to be worried about than who has SnS on what character.

IKR. Move on guys. The entire issue has played out 10x. It was a mistake, one that they aren't going to make on anyone else. No need to punish the guy who got his transferred, I am sure wasn't his intent whatsoever for this to happen. We need to focus and redirect on more important stuff!!!!

[Niixed]

I wouldnt ask 4 times if I was already denied 3 times

Lol you probably wouldn't ask 2 times if you were denied 1 time or maybe you wouldn't have asked in the first place.

[Titanfall]

Lol you probably wouldn't ask 2 times if you were denied 1 time or maybe you wouldn't have asked in the first place.
Exactly lol

[Madnex]

There were never going to be any changes from the beginning of this thread. It was just a means of containing the increasing number of threads asking about item/pet transfer. Letting the community vent off and ban whoever took it too far. Not quite the constructive conversation topic it was labeled to be.

[Twix]

IKR. Move on guys. The entire issue has played out 10x. It was a mistake, one that they aren't going to make on anyone else. No need to punish the guy who got his transferred, I am sure wasn't his intent whatsoever for this to happen. We need to focus and redirect on more important stuff!!!!

Asking 4x is his inrtent

[Twix]

Plat player movws on but harmful in free player eye see plat player get special atention

[Zeus]

No way sherlock I thoght he trade platinum tosomon for it. Not his mistak? He ask sts 4x to transfer pet and your sayits mistake.

I've seen the case and it definitely did not require platinum. It's just against ToS to post support cases of conversations with developers in private so I am not going to post screenshots just to appease someone's paranoia.

[Niixed]

Absolutely, I say put that pet back where it belongs. When you split the SNS from the warrior account, you're essentially giving that person a free SNS (or say 150m gold for free). Look at it like this, when I purchased Nekro, my Samael became a retired war veteran. Sam just sits in the stable and collects dust; I never use him anymore. This is how the natural progression should be, where a new pet replaces an older pet. If STS moved my Samael to my rogue (who currently uses Blinky), they're basically giving me a free Samael. This same situation is true with that SNS. It is unfair to the entire community to make this one exception.

If you look back to my original post where I brought this situation to light, you will see that towards the end of my post, I said that I had considered using that information to leverage moving my Samael to my rogue. However, as I said in that post, it was not the right thing to do, so I decided to go public with the information for the greater good of the game. The rules were very black and white before; let's not make them fuzzy and gray.

If SNS was also removed from the warrior account (it was, I believe) the free large gift argument loses its leverage. It's an unfair transfer of existing wealth, not a massive gift of new wealth.

It's not fair to the community for the mistake to stand, but it would also be equally unfair to the individual player to move it back without his consent. STS would do further harm to the integrity of the game if they also caved to the whole community. No doubt there will be no more pet transfers from this point on, so the rules are now even more clear to the community.

I think we're spending more time on this than we need, as the damage was already done and it would be a terrible precedent if STS altered an account that hadn't violated the TOS against the player's wishes. That would also open STS to a lawsuit, believe me nobody wants to get the lawyers involved!

[Schnitzel]

Okay, so STS did a pet transfer one time. Maybe they did it by mistake?

Mistake or not, it doesn't matter anymore. This was one week ago? two weeks? I don't know.

In my opinion, this is just a minor bump in the road (did I use this phrase right? If i didn't sorry).
Lets leave it in the past and move on to things of more importance. (i.e. the new AL Expansion and CoC's development)

[productor]

Hello Folks,
This thread has indeed run its course. Many thanks to all of you who stuck to constructive feedback.

Much Obliged,
Adrian "Productor" Glover