How is this balanced?(bear skills)

[jiroununu]

My lvl56 bear stats is 149str 149dex. So I did some gear change to test what influence bear skill damage, and I found it doesnt make any sense at all.

Gear option 1:royal sewer helm,royal sewer plate,bellow's gemstone sword,bellow's shield and a ring(2 crit 10 damage).
Vengeful slash damage: 253-300

Gear option 2:all as same above instead of changing weapon to royal sewer hammer(2 handed)
Vengeful slash damage: 217-263

Gear option 3: all as same above instead of changing weapon to gurg hammer(2 handed)
Vengeful slash damage: 242-288

Gear option 4: all as same as option 1 instead changing weapon to zuraz shock lance(still the highest DPH one handed weapon in game)
Vengeful slash damage: 202-249

Gear option 5: customized raid set with recurve with same ring
Vengeful slash damage: 253-296

And now I'm confused. Bellow's sword has the highest skill damage despite it is a one handed weapon, and it even has higher damage than any 2 handed weapon(recurve,gurg,sewer)
And it has 51more skill damage than zuraz shock lance despite its DPH is lower than it.(sword 124-132, lance 130-162)

A one handed weapon has more damage than two handed weapon???
Mega Mage set with staff has 40 more skill damage than it with wand and bracer.
Raid set with recurve has 40 more skill damage than it with talon and wing.
Sewer set with sewer hammer has 36 LESS skill damage than it with sword and shield.

What happen to bears? Why always bears? Bear didn't get a self castable combo until
patch 1.7. How is this blananced?
Sorry to post it here instead of warrior discussion because I want devs seeing this.

[serulean]

each weapon class contributes a different set % to skill damage.

for example, zuras has the highest weapon dmg but contributes less % of it's dmg to skill. for testing purposes, try out the limbchopper. i think you'll be surprised at the results.

[jiroununu]

My point is if one hand weapon has higher skill damage than two hand weapon, what's the purpus of using two hand weapon then? We sacrifice armor just to get less skill damage? This doesnt apply to Mage and bird and why it does to bear? Something must be wrong here.
I think devs need to do some serious test before they release any new weapon, two hand weapon should always has higher skill damage than one hand.

[Ayrilana]

A greater percentage of damage from wands goes towards skills for mages than staffs do.

[Plasticuproject]

Whatever the heck you had set up in Catacombs a few minutes ago seemed to work fraking great. Kudos on your tanking skills.

[serulean]

yeah jiro is a beast of a bear. no doubt.

i get what you're saying about the 1h vs 2h weapons...seems intuitive that one would have greater skill damage as a bear using a 2h weapon vs 1h weapon.

[Kindread]

yeah jiro is a beast of a bear.

Haha Jiro is a beast of a bear because he always has me attached to his hip like a .50 caliber Desert Eagle. Lol jk. Jiro and Ellyidol are two of the best bears I know. Also, Knightnoi as well, who probably isn't a familiar name but any runs with him are fast and furious.

In regards to bears weapon damage: I know PL is a fantasy world with fantasy physics but can we at least make this a little logical and realistic? 2-handers should always do more damage than 1-handed (except of course when the 2-hander is aimed at me).

[Oewaden]

In regards to bears weapon damage: I know PL is a fantasy world with fantasy physics but can we at least make this a little logical and realistic? 2-handers should always do more damage than 1-handed (except of course when the 2-hander is aimed at me).

Maybe from the realistic approach, since it's vengeful "slash", using a hammer isn't as effective (imagine trying to slash someone with a hammer), same with the cattle prod. Maybe if it was called vengeful "smash", or vengeful "bonk on the head", the hammers would do more damage. :)

Seriously though, I have no clue why it's that way. :confused:

[Ellyidol]

From what I've heard, when comparing weapons with different actual levels (Z.Lance - G.Hammer), you should also consider that its a 45/50 weapon vs a 55 weapon.

45/50 weapons give a less skill-damage ratio from their base damage (so I've heard). With that in mind, if G.Hammer was a 55 weapon, I'm almost sure that it'll have way superior skill damage than any of the weapons.

[noobmigo]

My point is if one hand weapon has higher skill damage than two hand weapon, what's the purpus of using two hand weapon then? We sacrifice armor just to get less skill damage? This doesnt apply to Mage and bird and why it does to bear? Something must be wrong here.
I think devs need to do some serious test before they release any new weapon, two hand weapon should always has higher skill damage than one hand.

Because More Damage=Bigger Hits.
Even though the Gurg Hamma is supah slow, it makes up for it by like, hitting 200 everytime.
This is balanced. Would you like a beserker that has super big atk damage, and super big skill damage at the same time WITH more armor. That would be OP.

[noobmigo]

Haha Jiro is a beast of a bear because he always has me attached to his hip like a .50 caliber Desert Eagle. Lol jk. Jiro and Ellyidol are two of the best bears I know. Also, Knightnoi as well, who probably isn't a familiar name but any runs with him are fast and furious.

In regards to bears weapon damage: I know PL is a fantasy world with fantasy physics but can we at least make this a little logical and realistic? 2-handers should always do more damage than 1-handed (except of course when the 2-hander is aimed at me).

Knightnoi is a beast. I did some BS runs with him, did some fabulous roundups, problem was, I died every single time, because I'm a squishy 50 int mage.

[Ellyidol]

Because More Damage=Bigger Hits.
Even though the Gurg Hamma is supah slow, it makes up for it by like, hitting 200 everytime.
This is balanced. Would you like a beserker that has super big atk damage, and super big skill damage at the same time WITH more armor. That would be OP.

That's true.

I prefer G.Hammer even if it gives lower skill damage because of it's really high normal attacks.

The question here, rather, is why are the 55 2H Weapons not at all comparable to a 50 2H G. Hammer? :(

[noobmigo]

That's true.

I prefer G.Hammer even if it gives lower skill damage because of it's really high normal attacks.

The question here, rather, is why are the 55 2H Weapons not at all comparable to a 50 2H G. Hammer? :(

Different speeds?
I dunno.....

[Ellyidol]

Different speeds?
I dunno.....

Yeah, but the speed doesn't really make up for loss in base damage, IMO.

Would just be nice to actually have the 2H weapons useful.

Right now, there is not ONE 2H 55 weapon that's stabilising in price or being sought after. :(

[noobmigo]

Yeah, but the speed doesn't really make up for loss in base damage, IMO.

Would just be nice to actually have the 2H weapons useful.

Right now, there is not ONE 2H 55 weapon that's stabilising in price or being sought after. :(

What's the speed of the Royal Sewer Hammer to the G. Hammer?
What's the damage of the Royal Sewer Hammer to the G. Hammer?

I remember back before rebalance and AO3, I would use the Plat Store Nightmare blade. Those were friggin epicx.
And staffs are 2H, (MM) but I'm assuming you mean str.

EDIT: Gurg 1.4 Spd, 180-260ish (I think) Dmg
Royal Sewer Hammer, 1.0 Spd, 150-190 (I think) Dmg
ZOMG, you're right!

If I did the math correctly and I have the stats correct as well, I think that the DPS of the G Hammer is just barely under the DPS of the Royal Sewers.

[Ellyidol]

What's the speed of the Royal Sewer Hammer to the G. Hammer?
What's the damage of the Royal Sewer Hammer to the G. Hammer?

I remember back before rebalance and AO3, I would use the Plat Store Nightmare blade. Those were friggin epicx.
And staffs are 2H, (MM) but I'm assuming you mean str.

EDIT: Gurg 1.4 Spd, 180-260ish (I think) Dmg
Royal Sewer Hammer, 1.0 Spd, 150-190 (I think) Dmg
ZOMG, you're right!

If I did the math correctly and I have the stats correct as well, I think that the DPS of the G Hammer is just barely under the DPS of the Royal Sewers.


Yup, in numbers Royal Hammer definitely has more dps, but IMO I think G.Hammer has more "true" DPS.

Much like the talon vs a gun (though these are extremes, talon has way low base and gun has higher base), but same case here.

[Moogerfooger]

Yup, in numbers Royal Hammer definitely has more dps, but IMO I think G.Hammer has more "true" DPS.

Much like the talon vs a gun (though these are extremes, talon has way low base and gun has higher base), but same case here.

But....you forget that the Royal Sewer Hammer is epically comically large and is hilarious to run around with, as an added (albeit pointless) visual bonus :D

I just call it the BFH.

[noobmigo]

But....you forget that the Royal Sewer Hammer is epically comically large and is hilarious to run around with, as an added (albeit pointless) visual bonus :D

I just call it the BFH.


LOL! Nice acronym.

[Ellyidol]

But....you forget that the Royal Sewer Hammer is epically comically large and is hilarious to run around with, as an added (albeit pointless) visual bonus :D

I just call it the BFH.

Of course, of course. :P

To be honest I just run with a BFH so I'm technically in all 55 gear. Lol

[Moogerfooger]

Hmm....so let's pretend in BS that an enemy has 120 armor.

When equipped on my dual spec build with a 1 dodge, 9 armor ring, Royal Sewer BFH has 183-213 dmg (198 avg), the Gurgox has 214-299 (251 avg)

(Effective damage = Avg weapon damage - enemy armor)

Gurg Hammer effective damage = 251-120 = 131
Royal Sewer BFH effective damage = 198-120 = 78

Gurg Hammer true effective DPS = Effective dmg/weap speed = 131/1.4 = 93.6
Royal Sewer BFH true effective DPS = 78/1.0 = 78

So even with slow-as-dirt speed, Gurg Hammer beats the Royal Sewer BFH. I know the Sewer has some procs though, I forget which.

Royal Sewer BFH = higher dodge, h/s, armor
Gurg = higher hit, crit, more "true" DPS

[Ellyidol]

The BFH's procs aren't really that significant.

The usual hammer stun, a freeze proc, and a really small break armour proc.

I reckon the freeze proc is quite useful, if you managed to time a split second stomp for combo, but with a 1.0 speed? Kinda hard..

[Moogerfooger]

LOL! Nice acronym.

I hereby start a movement to now refer to the Royal Sewer hammer as the "BFH" :D

[Yvonnel]

I like it." BFH!!!"