Rouges need damage nerf stopped.

[Disproves]

So everyone knows that in PvP rouges damage drops drastically.. Now since mages and tanks have gotten a buff rouges have been left out. I think it's time to remove the damage nerf as tanks and mages getting higher damage then rouges. Tanks recently got a buff where the skill "axe throw" when used does 25% amour reduction to the target and stacks, if 2 tanks fired at say a mage (1000 amour) will be cut to 500... 500 amour at 41! It's the same for a rouge... And as for mages they have also gotten stun immunity... And nothing for rouge...I think it's time to remove the debuff.

Thoughts?

[Ravager]

I look at it as other classes trying to catch up. Rogue is still strongest class in pvp. Recently rogues had the fix for nox and razor which made them stronger.

[Default8573]

the rouges are now mad. since they will die more in pvp now. hehe :encouragement:

[Volt]

I don't think Armor debuffs stack.

Anyways, rogues are still overpowered. Against a nekro mage, maybe not, but without the nerf tanks would be dying in one combo yet again by rogues.

I play as both a tank and a rogue, and I understand well enough just how much the damage nerf is needed. A rogue's aimed shot also has an Armor debuff which is one of my reasons as to why the damage nerf needs to stay in play.

Maybe if you included removing the rogue's Armor debuff upgrade from their aimed shot, I'd understand why the damage nerf should be removed.

[will0]

+1 to Volt ... rogues are over kill at the moment with high dodge rate and speed + neckro speed and shield

[Serillia]

I don't think Armor debuffs stack.

Anyways, rogues are still overpowered. Against a nekro mage, maybe not, but without the nerf tanks would be dying in one combo yet again by rogues.

I play as both a tank and a rogue, and I understand well enough just how much the damage nerf is needed. A rogue's aimed shot also has an Armor debuff which is one of my reasons as to why the damage nerf needs to stay in play.

Maybe if you included removing the rogue's Armor debuff upgrade from their aimed shot, I'd understand why the damage nerf should be removed.

Yous a wise talk :O

[Sodaisgood]

Yikes, if rouges are getting mad at this how do you think mages felt for over a year. And your still stronger x.x

[Wazakesy]

I don't think Armor debuffs stack.

Anyways, rogues are still overpowered. Against a nekro mage, maybe not, but without the nerf tanks would be dying in one combo yet again by rogues.

I play as both a tank and a rogue, and I understand well enough just how much the damage nerf is needed. A rogue's aimed shot also has an Armor debuff which is one of my reasons as to why the damage nerf needs to stay in play.

Maybe if you included removing the rogue's Armor debuff upgrade from their aimed shot, I'd understand why the damage nerf should be removed.

You play as a mage too...except there's basically no gears on it xD

[mxzgrawp]

So everyone knows that in PvP rouges damage drops drastically.. Now since mages and tanks have gotten a buff rouges have been left out. I think it's time to remove the damage nerf as tanks and mages getting higher damage then rouges. Tanks recently got a buff where the skill "axe throw" when used does 25% amour reduction to the target and stacks, if 2 tanks fired at say a mage (1000 amour) will be cut to 500... 500 amour at 41! It's the same for a rouge... And as for mages they have also gotten stun immunity... And nothing for rouge...I think it's time to remove the debuff.

Thoughts?

Got 3 points for you:
1.It's called rogue
2.Armor debuff does not stack
3Rogue still strongest class in pvp.

[epicrrr]

To be honest I dont really see how things are balanced. I pvp everyday and believe me subtle changes are very noticeable to me. Rog might look OP but truth is were way more squishier than mage -I also have mixed feeling about these skill updates. Rog should receive pvp skill updates too regarding HEAL or SHADOW PIERCE skill set otherwise I think things are going downhill from here. :(

OR

They could remove pet DAMAGE DEBUFF, its very sad that our arcane pet and other pet with damage bonus removes our damage instead of adding to it. They should've replace that damage happiness bonus to something else; might make a narrative about that unused bonus for us rogues soon.

[Litheus]

rogues were op for a long time so being op feels normal...now many rogue users may think that they are getting weak but actually they are not...what is happening is that class is becomes balance a bit

[Disproves]

I don't think Armor debuffs stack.

Anyways, rogues are still overpowered. Against a nekro mage, maybe not, but without the nerf tanks would be dying in one combo yet again by rogues.

I play as both a tank and a rogue, and I understand well enough just how much the damage nerf is needed. A rogue's aimed shot also has an Armor debuff which is one of my reasons as to why the damage nerf needs to stay in play.

Maybe if you included removing the rogue's Armor debuff upgrade from their aimed shot, I'd understand why the damage nerf should be removed.

But what about a rouge with 500 damage, but when in PvP it's drops too 400? Or a rouge with 700 dropping to 600 damage and vs a mage with 800 damage.. I understand If the rouge hand nekro..but most don't.. And I would sacrifice amour debuff for damage nerf being removed.

[Disproves]

To be honest I dont really see how things are balanced. I pvp everyday and believe me subtle changes are very noticeable to me. Rog might look OP but truth is were way more squishier than mage -I also have mixed feeling about these skill updates. Rog should receive pvp skill updates too regarding HEAL or SHADOW PIERCE skill set otherwise I think things are going downhill from here. :(

OR

They could remove pet DAMAGE DEBUFF, its very sad that our arcane pet and other pet with damage bonus removes our damage instead of adding to it. They should've replace that damage happiness bonus to something else; might make a narrative about that unused bonus for us rogues soon.

Yeah.. Mages and tanks are really strong now.. I think we deserve at least a skill update..

[debitmandiri]

I feel like u feel before, too squishy doesnt make enough dmg etc etc. But all solved with getting a better gear. No gear no pvp :p

[Ravager]

Keep in mind that you should be comparing equally geared classes. If youre a mythic rogue with slag that constantly loses to an imbued warrior with sam...

[merch_master]

Rogues are still pretty OP....a bit more balance is require though rogues will always be better suited for pvp than the rest

[Mr K]

legendary rogue can still kill a myth mage
rogues skill dmg has a much higher "multiplier" then mage or tank - means a rogue with for example 500dmg can kill a single target faster then a mage with 700dmg
1-2 high crit and mage shield is broken and there is no immunity means 1hit dead mage
mages still need a update for heal skill coz its pathetic especially twinkzone

[Disproves]

legendary rogue can still kill a myth mage
rogues skill dmg has a much higher "multiplier" then mage or tank - means a rogue with for example 500dmg can kill a single target faster then a mage with 700dmg
1-2 high crit and mage shield is broken and there is no immunity means 1hit dead mage
mages still need a update for heal skill coz its pathetic especially twinkzone

False. 400 damage rouge 3.5k hp vs mage 4.5k hp 700 damage.. gg..

[Disproves]

Keep in mind that you should be comparing equally geared classes. If youre a mythic rogue with slag that constantly loses to an imbued warrior with sam...

That's why rouges need damage nerfed stopped.. Either that or fair PvP rooms with same gear... Not like you said mythic rouges with slag vs warriors with imbued and sam...

[legendarytelly]

Rouges are still OP in pvp. They are just starting to balance things out. As mention earlier in this thread rouges are use to the unfair advantage. So the balancing is hard to deal with. No buff needs to be added to rouge the idea is Ludacris and would just set back the game when it's heading in the right direction.

[debitmandiri]

legendary rogue can still kill a myth mage
rogues skill dmg has a much higher "multiplier" then mage or tank - means a rogue with for example 500dmg can kill a single target faster then a mage with 700dmg
1-2 high crit and mage shield is broken and there is no immunity means 1hit dead mage
mages still need a update for heal skill coz its pathetic especially twinkzone
Then a mage can crit defenseless rogue too with full eye gem, like i said GEAR bring a difference

[Hoardseeker]

Mages and Warriors were behind Rogue, And those classes got buff and PvP is Balanced and now ,You're suggesting to Make Rogues again OP?

[Tatman]

Damage nerf should scale down based on level. Only at endgame and higher levels rogues are killmachines.
Small correction - maxed or near maxed rogues.

[Earlingstad]

Small correction - maxed or near maxed rogues.

Agreed Tatman. Only at endgame or at higher levels, around 26 and up, maxed and near maxed rogues are OP. The damage nerf is tossed on all level brackets almost arbitrarily, to avoid those killmachine rogues from dominating. That is unfair. With the recent tank buffs, it is a need for the rogue damage nerf to be level-based.

In twink pvp, tanks are always called in to swap rogues. In any guild chat, you will hear "join tank" ."they are stacking tanks, rogue swap tank". Why is that? Because tanks were already OP at lower levels and now they are more than OP while rogues stay nerfed scapegoats just to tame OP maxed endgame rogues. Why is the damage nerf slapped on all rogues? Low levels do not need that. At mid and low levels they have neither the damage, hp nor armor to be OP. Let alone OP, the damage nerf makes them frequently swapped out for tanks in clash. This is not balance. This is turning a blind eye to one very important aspect of one class, while catering to the needs of another. I suggest level based scaling down of the damage nerf for rogues.

[Flore]

r rogues the girl things tht heal? i m one of thos to

[nevercan]

To be honest I dont really see how things are balanced. I pvp everyday and believe me subtle changes are very noticeable to me. Rog might look OP but truth is were way more squishier than mage -I also have mixed feeling about these skill updates. Rog should receive pvp skill updates too regarding HEAL or SHADOW PIERCE skill set otherwise I think things are going downhill from here. :(

OR

They could remove pet DAMAGE DEBUFF, its very sad that our arcane pet and other pet with damage bonus removes our damage instead of adding to it. They should've replace that damage happiness bonus to something else; might make a narrative about that unused bonus for us rogues soon.
The reason why you say it is cuz ur lvl 13!!!! Thats one of the harder lvls to play as rouge!! Tank just op there and mage decent

Anyways me as a lvl 40 rouge i can kil olmost evry legendary mage at lvl 41 and how much did i spend on my gear? Exept my ring not more then 30k my ring (blood ruby) 400k and my malison 50k imagin that? Ofc i lose to a maxed out tank/mage but thats just that maxed out ppl are way better stat then legendarie people have.

[Disproves]

Agreed Tatman. Only at endgame or at higher levels, around 26 and up, maxed and near maxed rogues are OP. The damage nerf is tossed on all level brackets almost arbitrarily, to avoid those killmachine rogues from dominating. That is unfair. With the recent tank buffs, it is a need for the rogue damage nerf to be level-based.

In twink pvp, tanks are always called in to swap rogues. In any guild chat, you will hear "join tank" ."they are stacking tanks, rogue swap tank". Why is that? Because tanks were already OP at lower levels and now they are more than OP while rogues stay nerfed scapegoats just to tame OP maxed endgame rogues. Why is the damage nerf slapped on all rogues? Low levels do not need that. At mid and low levels they have neither the damage, hp nor armor to be OP. Let alone OP, the damage nerf makes them frequently swapped out for tanks in clash. This is not balance. This is turning a blind eye to one very important aspect of one class, while catering to the needs of another. I suggest level based scaling down of the damage nerf for rogues.

Finally someone who agrees with me..

[Ravager]

Agreed Tatman. Only at endgame or at higher levels, around 26 and up, maxed and near maxed rogues are OP. The damage nerf is tossed on all level brackets almost arbitrarily, to avoid those killmachine rogues from dominating. That is unfair. With the recent tank buffs, it is a need for the rogue damage nerf to be level-based.

In twink pvp, tanks are always called in to swap rogues. In any guild chat, you will hear "join tank" ."they are stacking tanks, rogue swap tank". Why is that? Because tanks were already OP at lower levels and now they are more than OP while rogues stay nerfed scapegoats just to tame OP maxed endgame rogues. Why is the damage nerf slapped on all rogues? Low levels do not need that. At mid and low levels they have neither the damage, hp nor armor to be OP. Let alone OP, the damage nerf makes them frequently swapped out for tanks in clash. This is not balance. This is turning a blind eye to one very important aspect of one class, while catering to the needs of another. I suggest level based scaling down of the damage nerf for rogues.

Finally someone who agrees with me..

I thought in your initial post you were talking about endlevel rogue. Amerya says end level rogues are op at max and near max. Also in you previous response to me,you stated that there is issues with gear and that it should be segregated and doesnt fall in line with your initial statement. Kinda confusing which is your focus.

[Bless]

Pet damage boost does not work in pvp for rogues. E.g. +10% dmg from samael does not work. So essentially, the happiness bonus from pets like Samael is wasted.

What is sts doing to compensate for this loss of damage?

Before you start talking about class balance, fix the bugs first. I'm not asking for the +dmg% pet happiness bonus to apply to rogues again, however it would only be fair to give us a boost in another stat like Armor or HP to compensate.

[Kriticality]

Some of the issue is there are many levels within level 41. Imo before any buffs, maxed out in each class were pretty balanced. I'm not completely maxed but very good gear. I enjoy the challenge but I can see how other levels and lesser geared rogues feel.

Let's see how it plays out. Let's experiment with the changes first. I'm happy for tanks and Mages. What I think the buffs promote in Pvp are well balanced teams. I think this is a good thing.

[Caabatric]

I have noticed that when i vs a skilled rogue(equal gear) matched are very close and balanced. However, I have encountered many rogues that also button mash and for this reason I can easily take out.
The rogue class before a button mash rogue used to be a real threat to a mage because they could stun the mage for a while avoiding a stun-lock combo allowing them to go back to their packs on time. Now, if a rogue is away from their packs they will just get stun-locked and probably killed.

The 2 classes definitely seem far more balanced then before.

EDIT: Rogues have stun immunity as well and ask why in pve rogues with 400 damage are preferred as a pic over a mage with 500. Reason, Rogues do more damage.

[Ravager]

Pet damage boost does not work in pvp for rogues. E.g. +10% dmg from samael does not work. So essentially, the happiness bonus from pets like Samael is wasted.

What is sts doing to compensate for this loss of damage?

Before you start talking about class balance, fix the bugs first. I'm not asking for the +dmg% pet happiness bonus to apply to rogues again, however it would only be fair to give us a boost in another stat like Armor or HP to compensate.

Moreso to promote balance. I'll give an example where warriors don't get benefit

Rogue Primary stat - 3 hp (dex)
Rogue Secondary stat - 5 hp (int)
Other stat - 10 hp (str)

Mage Pimary stat - 3 hp (int)
Mage Secondary stat - 5 hp (dex)
Other stat - 10 hp (str)

Warrior Primary stat - 10 hp (str)
Warrior Secondary stat - 3 hp (dex) NOT 5 HP
Other stat - 3 hp (int)

As you can see, warriors are the only class with their secondary stat that doesn't grant 5hp. All for balance.

Fortunately for rogues, they are the only class that can use non dmg % pets and still be powerful in PVP.

Without dmg decrease for rogues in pvp, it'd be more of a point and shoot game for rogues. Not really PVP.

[Hail]

At endgame rogues may be hitting hard, but dont forget about twinks.

[Disproves]

I have noticed that when i vs a skilled rogue(equal gear) matched are very close and balanced. However, I have encountered many rogues that also button mash and for this reason I can easily take out.
The rogue class before a button mash rogue used to be a real threat to a mage because they could stun the mage for a while avoiding a stun-lock combo allowing them to go back to their packs on time. Now, if a rogue is away from their packs they will just get stun-locked and probably killed.

The 2 classes definitely seem far more balanced then before.

EDIT: Rogues have stun immunity as well and ask why in pve rogues with 400 damage are preferred as a pic over a mage with 700. Reason, Rogues do more damage.

A rouge with 400 damage does NOT do more then a mage with 700.. Trust me... Endgame rouges with mid gear (mythic set, expe bow legendary ring and amulet) can't get close to that.

[Bellaelda]

Disproves...

I understand your frustration... However the issue is basically about gear...

A legendary rogue vs legendary tanks or mage (or mythic vs mythic.. And so on) is still favored at end game*.

*(dis is end game... or at least his main/toon that I know Is... So I'm only talking about that here)

And when they're talking about rogues doing more damage... they mean literally that (in game)... The numbers don't mean much... A rogue with 500 damage will usually kill a target faster than a mage with almost 1k damage (it's about crits and the way rogues stack basically)

I'd be happy to do some test runs and show you the difference though... I don't understand sts math much as far are stats are concerned (and I don't know many that do) ... But if we party and try and elite map and separate two guys... You'll see a big difference (especially if u tape it and watch damage outputs and speeds!)

If they removed rogue nerf it would just immediately put all mages and tanks (end game atleast) right out of pvp!


**however I do think that scaling the nerf should be looked at per lv

***and the idea of gear balancing pvp maps is AWESOME though I'm not sure if they can do it... I would love pvp maps with a cap of certain gear ( i. e. Common gear, rare gear, legendary gear, arcane gear) that would make games so much more fun at all lvls... And if your bored in one bracket than change your gear and try another!

[Disproves]

Disproves...

I understand your frustration... However the issue is basically about gear...

A legendary rogue vs legendary tanks or mage (or mythic vs mythic.. And so on) is still favored at end game*.

*(dis is end game... or at least his main/toon that I know Is... So I'm only talking about that here)

And when they're talking about rogues doing more damage... they mean literally that (in game)... The numbers don't mean much... A rogue with 500 damage will usually kill a target faster than a mage with almost 1k damage (it's about crits and the way rogues stack basically)

I'd be happy to do some test runs and show you the difference though... I don't understand sts math much as far are stats are concerned (and I don't know many that do) ... But if we party and try and elite map and separate two guys... You'll see a big difference (especially if u tape it and watch damage outputs and speeds!)

If they removed rogue nerf it would just immediately put all mages and tanks (end game atleast) right out of pvp!


**however I do think that scaling the nerf should be looked at per lv

***and the idea of gear balancing pvp maps is AWESOME though I'm not sure if they can do it... I would love pvp maps with a cap of certain gear ( i. e. Common gear, rare gear, legendary gear, arcane gear) that would make games so much more fun at all lvls... And if your bored in one bracket than change your gear and try another!

I'd b happy to do some test runs... Il use my level 41..lol. Il add you :)

[epicrrr]

Pet damage boost does not work in pvp for rogues. E.g. +10% dmg from samael does not work. So essentially, the happiness bonus from pets like Samael is wasted.

What is sts doing to compensate for this loss of damage?

Before you start talking about class balance, fix the bugs first. I'm not asking for the +dmg% pet happiness bonus to apply to rogues again, however it would only be fair to give us a boost in another stat like Armor or HP to compensate.

Exactly, I feel cheated having this pet happiness bonus of +DMG%, should be replaced to something else that ALL CLASS can enjoy. As a rog my pet is always operating at 80% capacity (pet with +DMG% bonus) whenever im in PVP, this should be addressed soon.

If you have Singe as a rog you have -22% damage(PVP), talk about fairness of class.

OR remove +DMG% bonus of pets from WARRIOR and MAGE.

[Bless]

Exactly, I feel cheated having this pet happiness bonus of +DMG%, should be replaced to something else that ALL CLASS can enjoy. As a rog my pet is always operating at 80% capacity (pet with +DMG% bonus) whenever im in PVP, this should be addressed soon.

If you have Singe as a rog you have -22% damage, talk about fairness of class.
I can see some people saying rogue DMG is OP, and maybe that's why a dmg nerf is needed. But the fact that we don't receive a pet bonus is just ridiculously unfair. At least compensate for it by buffing another stat, STG.

[sellings]

the rouges are now mad. since they will die more in pvp now. hehe :encouragement:
Just cause arcane shield lmao

[Bellaelda]

As far the the pet happiness problem...

It's not so much a bug... as a result of your nerf, and not properly explained now, I think (like so many stats and multipliers)...

I could be wrong but if I remember correctly this stack/multiplier stopped working when rogues were nerfed in pvp and for the reason of balancing out the classes... So it's basically now just like that obnoxious damage passive skill that won't stack with anything else...

Though I do feel rogues pain (and all classes frustration about skills and buffs not working as they should... Let's face it we all had to respec our damage passive after learning that's it's useless... Along with tons of other skills/bugs)...

I do not think raising rogues damage is the answer... Your skill multipliers like stacking aimed shot, armor, criticals, and crazy fast killer capabilities already make rogues the favored class for anything in game besides maybe a twink clash...

I do think sts needs to address the lies in their skill descriptions (which I have seen them slowly addressing lately and will give credit for)... However they need to fix the ones that don't work (or at least have better transparency about what does and doesn't work/stack), and address the descriptions of gear that only shows once equipped...

Beyond that I think that rogues need to have their debuffs scaled better per level (though I won't claim to know each lv as I hear some are good and some are horrible... And I haven't twinked in long time... Just basing this opinion on people I trust that tell me their issues)

And as far as end game... I think rogues need to step up their game... Like they've been telling others to for years now (not meaning about gear discrepancies, cause that's different)... But it's about time that end game rogues had to get creative in their defensive techniques and I'd prefer to see the end game scales tipped even more so mages or tanks direction (maybe then we can actually get a few kills in around all you rogues out there, lol!)

[epicrrr]

As far the the pet happiness problem...

It's not so much a bug... as a result of your nerf, and not properly explained now, I think (like so many stats and multipliers)...

I could be wrong but if I remember correctly this stack/multiplier stopped working when rogues were nerfed in pvp and for the reason of balancing out the classes... So it's basically now just like that obnoxious damage passive skill that won't stack with anything else...

Though I do feel rogues pain (and all classes frustration about skills and buffs not working as they should... Let's face it we all had to respec our damage passive after learning that's it's useless... Along with tons of other skills/bugs)...

I do not think raising rogues damage is the answer... Your skill multipliers like stacking aimed shot, armor, criticals, and crazy fast killer capabilities already make rogues the favored class for anything in game besides maybe a twink clash...

I do think sts needs to address the lies in their skill descriptions (which I have seen them slowly addressing lately and will give credit for)... However they need to fix the ones that don't work (or at least have better transparency about what does and doesn't work/stack), and address the descriptions of gear that only shows once equipped...

Beyond that I think that rogues need to have their debuffs scaled better per level (though I won't claim to know each lv as I hear some are good and some are horrible... And I haven't twinked in long time... Just basing this opinion on people I trust that tell me their issues)

And as far as end game... I think rogues need to step up their game... Like they've been telling others to for years now (not meaning about gear discrepancies, cause that's different)... But it's about time that end game rogues had to get creative in their defensive techniques and I'd prefer to see the end game scales tipped even more so mages or tanks direction (maybe then we can actually get a few kills in around all you rogues out there, lol!)

I am generally OK with balances and fixes that's necessary.

What we ROGs dont support is on an arcane pet (which almost all have +dmg) this bonus is unavailable to us , now thats been going for a long time now which the majority dont really care till now that STS has been buffing skills of sorcs and warriors. Real world value and scenario this is unacceptable - since we are going the road of skill updates and class balances this should also be addressed now.

[Remarked]

Well rip to mages and tanks once rogues get the dmg% from their pets. thats if they get it wkwkwk

[Astrea]

As a rogue that cannot used a Dmg % from a pet is really sucks, even warrior is almost having the same dmg as the rogue.
Ex : in lvl 13 ( Warrior dmg = 110-125 ) ( Rogue dmg = 115-130 ) i think..
Also thats why i choose rogue class to be a Damage dealer not being left in a corner.

PS: im a twink and palying rogue is getting harder for me.

[Serancha]

As a rogue that cannot used a Dmg % from a pet is really sucks, even warrior is almost having the same dmg as the rogue.
Ex : in lvl 13 ( Warrior dmg = 110-125 ) ( Rogue dmg = 115-130 ) i think..
Also thats why i choose rogue class to be a Damage dealer not being left in a corner.

PS: im a twink and palying rogue is getting harder for me.

You do realize that those are only numbers, right? They don't actually mean anything when it comes to how fast you kill something. Rogue will always out-perform someone of another class with equal damage. I know this varies at twink levels in pvp, but the principle is the same. Nobody else has stacking crit+armour reduction on their primary skill.

[Caabatric]

A rouge with 400 damage does NOT do more then a mage with 700.. Trust me... Endgame rouges with mid gear (mythic set, expe bow legendary ring and amulet) can't get close to that.

Meant 500 damage my bad....

Without a pet I am equipped with mythic set, expe gun, ruby, and talisman and hit 472 damage so can u tell me the damage of a rogue with similar equips in pvp?

[Imsofancy]

pffffft rogues are easy to kill, just follow these 4 steps.

1: stun
2: stun
3: kill
4: teabaaaaaaag

[Bellaelda]

I am generally OK with balances and fixes that's necessary.

What we ROGs dont support is on an arcane pet (which almost all have +dmg) this bonus is unavailable to us , now thats been going for a long time now which the majority dont really care till now that STS has been buffing skills of sorcs and warriors. Real world value and scenario this is unacceptable - since we are going the road of skill updates and class balances this should also be addressed now.

Haha... I hear ya... I've been complain about sns for a year now with no luck...

I'm not sure if there's enough players to facilitate it, but I would love gear based pvp rooms.. I'd even unequip pets or gear to make gear limits... Something like common gear, rare gear, legendary gear, mythic gear, and arcane gear limited rooms would be really cool (sorry if off topic)

[xnorwayx]

I am doing pvp as lvl 13 mage. I have good gear for this lvl. I can keep 4:1 kdr. BUT! If any rogue ask me for vs I ALWAYS say no ty.. Aimed shot is op skill. Rogue can get dmg back in pvp room, but only if STS remove 250% crit upgrade. If no dmg Nerf for rogues, good geared rogue easy will 1 aimed crit my mage with shield on.

[Caabatric]

pffffft rogues are easy to kill, just follow these 4 steps.

1: stun
2: stun
3: kill
4: teabaaaaaaag
Razor
Stun-fail
Watch them get their packs
Say gg

[Bellaelda]

I am doing pvp as lvl 13 mage. I have good gear for this lvl. I can keep 4:1 kdr. BUT! If any rogue ask me for vs I ALWAYS say no ty.. Aimed shot is op skill. Rogue can get dmg back in pvp room, but only if STS remove 250% crit upgrade. If no dmg Nerf for rogues, good geared rogue easy will 1 aimed crit my mage with shield on.

Yeah I can't voice twink lvs fairly anymore as its been so long since I logged in to any of them... I hear mixed reviews, but concensus is that tanks are op in certain lv brackets...

Though I do think this should be addressed... stacking tanks has always been an issue... And I think the best way to deal with that is to just leave map

[justhell]

Then mages will ask for their freeze work on pvp :D

[Bless]

As far the the pet happiness problem...

It's not so much a bug... as a result of your nerf, and not properly explained now, I think (like so many stats and multipliers)...

I could be wrong but if I remember correctly this stack/multiplier stopped working when rogues were nerfed in pvp and for the reason of balancing out the classes... So it's basically now just like that obnoxious damage passive skill that won't stack with anything else...

Though I do feel rogues pain (and all classes frustration about skills and buffs not working as they should... Let's face it we all had to respec our damage passive after learning that's it's useless... Along with tons of other skills/bugs)...

I do not think raising rogues damage is the answer... Your skill multipliers like stacking aimed shot, armor, criticals, and crazy fast killer capabilities already make rogues the favored class for anything in game besides maybe a twink clash...

I do think sts needs to address the lies in their skill descriptions (which I have seen them slowly addressing lately and will give credit for)... However they need to fix the ones that don't work (or at least have better transparency about what does and doesn't work/stack), and address the descriptions of gear that only shows once equipped...

Beyond that I think that rogues need to have their debuffs scaled better per level (though I won't claim to know each lv as I hear some are good and some are horrible... And I haven't twinked in long time... Just basing this opinion on people I trust that tell me their issues)

And as far as end game... I think rogues need to step up their game... Like they've been telling others to for years now (not meaning about gear discrepancies, cause that's different)... But it's about time that end game rogues had to get creative in their defensive techniques and I'd prefer to see the end game scales tipped even more so mages or tanks direction (maybe then we can actually get a few kills in around all you rogues out there, lol!)

Valid points indeed, and I agree with most of it. Rogues do need to up their game and stop being lazy expecting to 2 hit everything.

However, I must point out that this bug was recognised and reported many seasons ago. Again, I'm not asking for a damage buff, but rather a buff in another stat to compensate.

With every other class being buffed, and all "catching up" to rogues, rogues will have more difficulty in pvp compared to before. The fact that mages and warriors damage in pvp is increased by 10% or whatever is acknowledged and considered fair. The rogue -10% dmg nerf is also fair I guess.

However it becomes a problem when rogues pay 10m+ for a pet like samael or singe but don't get the buff like other classes. Analogically speaking, it's like if the OP Nekro AA gives the shield to all classes except rogues.

[Zynzyn]

The -10% damage for rogues in pvp, compared to tanks and mages is fair on paper.

BUT what is very unfair and has been neglected for very long is the fact that this -10% dmg for rogues in pvp CANCELS out the pet's' bonus dmg too. That brings rogues in a situation where they are walking around with 20-22% (10 %dmg nerf plus the nerf canceling pet dmg buff) lesser damage compared to tanks and mages receiving their pet bonus dmg.

While maxed rogues at higher levels would have little difficulty in such a situation, and their playmates would term them OP, this is not the case for all level brackets, as several players have already mentioned above. Sts, you are releasing pet after pet with pet damage bonus (arcane and others), atleast make it fully functional in pvp.

The plan was 10% dmg nerf for rogues in pvp. In arcane history ( I have played since day 1), nowhere was it mentioned that rogues will be deprived of 20% dmg in pvp. It is a MALFUNCTION or poor-quality coding (apologies for the use of that term but that is what it is), that has been around for too long and urgently needs a fix. If pet bonus dmg does not work for one class in pvp, disable that pet bonus dmg for all classes then. Or compensate the rogue's unintended glitched extra damage loss with health and armor.

[Kriticality]

Well put zyn, have some thanks!! :)

[Disproves]

Meant 500 damage my bad....

Without a pet I am equipped with mythic set, expe gun, ruby, and talisman and hit 472 damage so can u tell me the damage of a rogue with similar equips in pvp?

With my 41 I can reach.. 500 damage PvE with dova. I use expe bow of pot mythic set elo ring of celerity and eerie amulet of brut.

[Volt]

The -10% damage for rogues in pvp, compared to tanks and mages is fair on paper.

BUT what is very unfair and has been neglected for very long is the fact that this -10% dmg for rogues in pvp CANCELS out the pet's' bonus dmg too. That brings rogues in a situation where they are walking around with 20-22% (10 %dmg nerf plus the nerf canceling pet dmg buff) lesser damage compared to tanks and mages receiving their pet bonus dmg.

While maxed rogues at higher levels would have little difficulty in such a situation, and their playmates would term them OP, this is not the case for all level brackets, as several players have already mentioned above. Sts, you are releasing pet after pet with pet damage bonus (arcane and others), atleast make it fully functional in pvp.

The plan was 10% dmg nerf for rogues in pvp. In arcane history ( I have played since day 1), nowhere was it mentioned that rogues will be deprived of 20% dmg in pvp. It is a MALFUNCTION or poor-quality coding (apologies for the use of that term but that is what it is), that has been around for too long and urgently needs a fix. If pet bonus dmg does not work for one class in pvp, disable that pet bonus dmg for all classes then. Or compensate the rogue's unintended glitched extra damage loss with health and armor.

Adding the damage % that certain pets give to rogues would unleash hell in pvp lol.

Dovabear would become overpowered for a rogue. Abaddon with 15% dmg lol...

Mythic gear rogues can still do crazy damage on crits. The problem here is the gear/stat difference between a legendary/mythic rogue and a full imbued/Arc ring/mythic rogue. A full rogue is overly overpowered, yet a legendary / mythic rogue is not comparable to those.

Adding the pet % dmg boost might balance the lower rogues, but it would completely destroy pvp with maxes rogues. Lol imagine seeing those maces out nekro users... With an added 15% damage. Just no

[epicrrr]

Adding the damage % that certain pets give to rogues would unleash hell in pvp lol.

Dovabear would become overpowered for a rogue. Abaddon with 15% dmg lol...

Mythic gear rogues can still do crazy damage on crits. The problem here is the gear/stat difference between a legendary/mythic rogue and a full imbued/Arc ring/mythic rogue. A full rogue is overly overpowered, yet a legendary / mythic rogue is not comparable to those.

Adding the pet % dmg boost might balance the lower rogues, but it would completely destroy pvp with maxes rogues. Lol imagine seeing those maces out nekro users... With an added 15% damage. Just no

This is why, they should really really reallyyyy consider changing that bonus.

[Zynzyn]

Adding the pet % dmg boost might balance the lower rogues, but it would completely destroy pvp with maxes rogues. Lol imagine seeing those maces out nekro users... With an added 15% damage. Just no

You admit that giving pet bonus dmg to lower level rogues would balance things. But your statement basically also proposes to sacrifice twink pvp rogues for the sake of balancing endgame.

I would like to bring to light that twinks invest in pvp as much as endgamers and rogues at lower levels need balance as much as endgamers do. When tanks of endgame are left out of farming parties, one can cry but when rogues at twink levels are frequently swapped out for tanks from clash rooms and tanks are favoured all the time over rogues, it is "just no"?

Pvp is not ALL about endgame. STS made pvp possible for all levels, arcane pets usable for pvp at all levels, pvp gear lootable at all levels, they might as well pay attention to the concerns and issues of pvp players besides endgame. I agree with your point that maxed rogues at high levels (endgame and towards endgame) are doing ok currently, but it is not so at twink levels.

While all these recent buffs to mage and tank is going on, it is highly unfair to rogues that they should be deprived of whopping 20-25% damage. The funniest part is that it was never announced that rogues will have that great amount of damage loss, compared to other classes. Its all behind the curtains and people only see that there is a 10% dmg nerf.

If that pet damage bonus is sohard to fix, devs just need to disable all pet damage-buff in pvp for all 3 classes to make it fair for all. Or as some others suggested, instead of the pet bonus damage, rogues should be given a health and armor bonus. That should compensate.

[Caabatric]

With my 41 I can reach.. 500 damage PvE with dova. I use expe bow of pot mythic set elo ring of celerity and eerie amulet of brut.

I said no pet and in a pvp room but with dova I get 559 damage.

[Caabatric]

You admit that giving pet bonus dmg to lower level rogues would balance things. But your statement basically also proposes to sacrifice twink pvp rogues for the sake of balancing endgame.

I would like to bring to light that twinks invest in pvp as much as endgamers and rogues at lower levels need balance as much as endgamers do. When tanks of endgame are left out of farming parties, one can cry but when rogues at twink levels are frequently swapped out for tanks from clash rooms and tanks are favoured all the time over rogues, it is "just no"?

Pvp is not ALL about endgame. STS made pvp possible for all levels, arcane pets usable for pvp at all levels, pvp gear lootable at all levels, they might as well pay attention to the concerns and issues of pvp players besides endgame. I agree with your point that maxed rogues at high levels (endgame and towards endgame) are doing ok currently, but it is not so at twink levels.

While all these recent buffs to mage and tank is going on, it is highly unfair to rogues that they should be deprived of whopping 20-25% damage. The funniest part is that it was never announced that rogues will have that great amount of damage loss, compared to other classes. Its all behind the curtains and people only see that there is a 10% dmg nerf.

If that pet damage bonus is sohard to fix, devs just need to disable all pet damage-buff in pvp for all 3 classes to make it fair for all. Or as some others suggested, instead of the pet bonus damage, rogues should be given a health and armor bonus. That should compensate.

He meant lower geared end-game rogues....

[Newcomx]

So everyone knows that in PvP rouges damage drops drastically.. Now since mages and tanks have gotten a buff rouges have been left out. I think it's time to remove the damage nerf as tanks and mages getting higher damage then rouges. Tanks recently got a buff where the skill "axe throw" when used does 25% amour reduction to the target and stacks, if 2 tanks fired at say a mage (1000 amour) will be cut to 500... 500 amour at 41! It's the same for a rouge... And as for mages they have also gotten stun immunity... And nothing for rouge...I think it's time to remove the debuff.

Thoughts?

Still, the fact is rogue got the most kill with Aimed Shot with dmg increasead 250% and high crit stats. I agree remove the debuff, but increase mage and warr dmg in the skill upgrade.

[Arrowz]

So everyone knows that in PvP rouges damage drops drastically.. Now since mages and tanks have gotten a buff rouges have been left out. I think it's time to remove the damage nerf as tanks and mages getting higher damage then rouges. Tanks recently got a buff where the skill "axe throw" when used does 25% amour reduction to the target and stacks, if 2 tanks fired at say a mage (1000 amour) will be cut to 500... 500 amour at 41! It's the same for a rouge... And as for mages they have also gotten stun immunity... And nothing for rouge...I think it's time to remove the debuff.

Thoughts?

Looolll
1. Aimed shot still does more dmg than anything else in the game
2. Debuffs on the same stat dont stack, only the largest one applies
3. Rogues were op before and now the other classes are more in line

[siddhant]

life in al:
Endgame mages say we get 1shotted by rouge we need buff!!!
Endgame rouges say we cant kill a few top mostly maxed out mages we need our nerf removed!!!
Endgame tanks say most ppl dont take us with them while running elites/tombs give us a buff!!!
twink rouges complain we cant kill tanks remove nerf!!!

[epicrrr]

Looolll
1.
2. Debuffs on the same stat dont stack, only the largest one applies
3.

It does stack or maybe debuff coming from the pet and the player debuff (DMG) does, i have singe 150 dmg on town and 119 damage on arena.

[epicrrr]

Come to think of it, they cant remove pet dmg bonus debuff and rog player dmg debuff because of para gems, this thought still haunts me that STS shouldve only allowed 1 paracelsus gem equip on any char (but meh we move on i guess).

So changing that damage bonus from all PETS to something else that all class can enjoy is IMO the best solution atm.

[legendarytelly]

Rogues are being ridiculous in this thread.... and as far as twinking goes imo it shouldn't exist... seeing lvl 10 and 11 on leader boards in events is ridiculous. Level and compete like everyone else. The entire game should not be comprised by a dominant character because of a minority (twink) that doesn't want to compete. All you hear about twinks is gang gang or this class at this level ect. What about the majority who play the game like it was designed and play it to the end? We are suppose to not have balance and fair game play because 3m gold twink feel some kind of way? I'm sorry but put on your big boy pants and lvl and play the game as it was truthfully designed.

[epicrrr]

Rogues are being ridiculous in this thread.... and as far as twinking goes imo it shouldn't exist... seeing lvl 10 and 11 on leader boards in events is ridiculous. Level and compete like everyone else. The entire game should not be comprised by a dominant character because of a minority (twink) that doesn't want to compete. All you hear about twinks is gang gang or this class at this level ect. What about the majority who play the game like it was designed and play it to the end? We are suppose to not have balance and fair game play because 3m gold twink feel some kind of way? I'm sorry but put on your big boy pants and lvl and play the game as it was truthfully designed.

I suggest you add "Dynamics" to your vocabulary. :banana:

[siddhant]

Rogues are being ridiculous in this thread.... and as far as twinking goes imo it shouldn't exist... seeing lvl 10 and 11 on leader boards in events is ridiculous. Level and compete like everyone else. The entire game should not be comprised by a dominant character because of a minority (twink) that doesn't want to compete. All you hear about twinks is gang gang or this class at this level ect. What about the majority who play the game like it was designed and play it to the end? We are suppose to not have balance and fair game play because 3m gold twink feel some kind of way? I'm sorry but put on your big boy pants and lvl and play the game as it was truthfully designed.
strong statements u are making out there and taking thread off topic as well but again even u can create a twink if u so wanna be on "lb"and telling twink to lvl up and compete u forget we pvp "most"of the times and we all know
How'endgame pvp is all gear sns and nekro stackers 1shot kill telling twinks to lvl up most twinks including me have had endgame char before moving to twinking
so pls put some logic in ur post before posting it

[Arrowz]

It does stack or maybe debuff coming from the pet and the player debuff (DMG) does, i have singe 150 dmg on town and 119 damage on arena.

Its not debuffs stacking. How the game works is that debuffs override any buffs, for example, if a mage uses gale for a 50% armor bonus and then a rogue hits then with aimed shot for 15% armor reduction, their net armor is 85% percent. Its as if gale was never used at all(yet rogues are complaining they need nerfed when they have crit stacking, armor reduc, and the highest dmg possible on one skill lmaooo). I played rogue at lvl 17 for awhile and its hilarious when you crit a warrior for 1200(more than a third of most warriors health). Also if you havent noticed the nerf has been in place for for a LOOONNGG time yet rogues were still the overpowered class for awhile


Rogues are being ridiculous in this thread.... and as far as twinking goes imo it shouldn't exist... seeing lvl 10 and 11 on leader boards in events is ridiculous. Level and compete like everyone else. The entire game should not be comprised by a dominant character because of a minority (twink) that doesn't want to compete. All you hear about twinks is gang gang or this class at this level ect. What about the majority who play the game like it was designed and play it to the end? We are suppose to not have balance and fair game play because 3m gold twink feel some kind of way? I'm sorry but put on your big boy pants and lvl and play the game as it was truthfully designed.

The game was designed to have fun, as all games are. And twinks shouldnt be shrugged off as you suggest because they are a significant part of the community and the economy. Many arcane pets, para gems, platinum are all bought by twinks. Some people want to be competitive and one of the best at their lvl without spending 100m gold on gear so why shouldnt they? People are entitled to play the game as they wish. Dont tell others how to play a game. I have made suggestions on multiple threads in the past to apply different balance adjustments to different lvls. This way both twinks would be more balanced and endgame would be more balanced. I feel like hour just salty because you got kicked off a lb due to twinks or you ultimately failed to be a good twink. Have a nice day :)

[siddhant]

Its not debuffs stacking. How the game works is that debuffs override any buffs, for example, if a mage uses gale for a 50% armor bonus and then a rogue hits then with aimed shot for 15% armor reduction, their net armor is 85% percent. Its as if gale was never used at all(yet rogues are complaining they need nerfed when they have crit stacking, armor reduc, and the highest dmg possible on one skill lmaooo). I played rogue at lvl 17 for awhile and its hilarious when you crit a warrior for 1200(more than a third of most warriors health). Also if you havent noticed the nerf has been in place for for a LOOONNGG time yet rogues were still the overpowered class for awhile



The game was designed to have fun, as all games are. And twinks shouldnt be shrugged off as you suggest because they are a significant part of the community and the economy. Many arcane pets, para gems, platinum are all bought by twinks. Some people want to be competitive and one of the best at their lvl without spending 100m gold on gear so why shouldnt they? People are entitled to play the game as they wish. Dont tell others how to play a game. I have made suggestions on multiple threads in the past to apply different balance adjustments to different lvls. This way both twinks would be more balanced and endgame would be more balanced. I feel like hour just salty because you got kicked off a lb due to twinks or you ultimately failed to be a good twink. Have a nice day :)
No no i guess he is ranting because he is an endgame tank and nobody takes him to tombs xd just my assumption

[Gess]

Atleast make it so the pet dmg% still does SOMETHING. For example:
100 dmg -10% = 90 dmg
90 dmg + 12%(singe) = 100.8

[CheifR]

The worst part about this is the DMG Nerf screws over the normal rogues way more than others. My eyes got big when I saw someone say that tanks at one point could possibly be one hit O.O every other post here I see "when they use necro" or something about them overpowering tanks and STILL mages with their shield on. As I am not one of these rogues frankly idgi...

[Remarked]

Cry mooore...

[Disproves]

Cry mooore...

Who are you talking to?

[CheifR]

Cry mooore...
Is that the only English half the people that PvP speak?

[CheifR]

Atleast make it so the pet dmg% still does SOMETHING. For example:
100 dmg -10% = 90 dmg
90 dmg + 12%(singe) = 100.8
I AGREE to this!!!!!!!!

[Zynzyn]

Please scale down the nerf. Or atleast make low level rogues receive their pet dmg-buff. Do something please. Its impossible to compete with even same level tanks at low level twink range. Can any devs clarify just how twink rogues (under lv 15) will survive with the 20-27% dmg gap caused by rogues not getting the pet bonus dmg they deserve in pvp?

The deal was 10% dmg nerf for killmachine rogues (which they are only at endgame, when wearing maxed gear). Nobody said our pet bonus dmg will also be null. Is this going to be fixed? How long? :c

[SacredKnight]

PvP became unbalanced after Season II. It's only now when the numbers are bigger that people can see the issue more clearly :/

[enzpoy]

All of you people still dont realize the strength between mage and rogue!

ROGUE IS SO OP!

If you make the lightskill of mage the same description as the aim shot

and the heal of mage sucks in total rogue heal is too op

ROGUE SHOULD BE NERFED LIKE HELL!!! For them to experience the pain we have until now the smurfs do you think its fair for us. If you just cry and u get what you want while we mages suffered almost 2 years for the skill
And now the curse is canceled when nilibog is present its totally unfair

[Twinisland]

Learn new tactics nuff said

[kinzmet]

Rogues are being ridiculous in this thread.... and as far as twinking goes imo it shouldn't exist... seeing lvl 10 and 11 on leader boards in events is ridiculous. Level and compete like everyone else. The entire game should not be comprised by a dominant character because of a minority (twink) that doesn't want to compete. All you hear about twinks is gang gang or this class at this level ect. What about the majority who play the game like it was designed and play it to the end? We are suppose to not have balance and fair game play because 3m gold twink feel some kind of way? I'm sorry but put on your big boy pants and lvl and play the game as it was truthfully designed.

Well that is your idea of how the game is designed. If you put your "big boy pants" you would'nt even play games anymore, instead you work and do big boy things, so please don't bring that kind of metaphor here.

The game is designed to be enjoyed, Not to be self-proclaimed big boy. Mind you, all hard-core twinks have end-game toons.

[Alhuntrazeck]

No pls no.

What some ppl don't understand is if you remove the rogue debuff, their pet damage % will be added as well which isn't happening right now. So, what, 700-800 damage rogues in PvP? Not in this season.

Also.................

NS is pretty popular now. You guys really want rogues to run around with 17% damage? I sure as hell don't...

-as a rogue, mage and warrior

[Ratiomod]

I dont use to pvp, but tryed yestarday some pvp for a few achievement point.
I got a lot of 5500dmg hits from rogues. My hp is only 4900. Armor 1134.
So what is this thread about? You want still one-hit mages but with higher crit or what?

[nevercan]

Well that is your idea of how the game is designed. If you put your "big boy pants" you would'nt even play games anymore, instead you work and do big boy things, so please don't bring that kind of metaphor here.

The game is designed to be enjoyed, Not to be self-proclaimed big boy. Mind you, all hard-core twinks have end-game toons.
Not al pro twinks have mains.....

[Helal]

I think rouge still strongest class on pvp and pve

now it looks like sts made arena,planar tomb, and pvp only for rouges !! Other classes can not do any run with out rouges but rouges can do any runs with out other classes

Weakest class is Mage!! And that why players left (mages) and start using rouges

I use my mage when only I do marchent becouse mages useless to do any thing else at this moment

Thanks

[Enterradora]

If u remove the nerf on rogues, they will be 1hit or combo aim+pierce imbued tank.

But i think 10% dmg reduction plus pet %dmg its a lot nerf.

I.E = rogue whit nightshde got 27% dmg nerf, i think a good nerf will be a total of 15%dmg.

I have 5220hp as a rogue, yesterday i got 75%hp dmg of my total hp from mage lightning.

My damage in town whit Nightsahde is 773 in pvp is 596, and yes i can 1 hit mage but if he shield first i probably will die if same gear and sometimes whit lower gear if he chain stun right or use breeze/samael/etc...

Vs warr whit equally gear its hard to kill but its possible, if he have lower gear is food ofc

[Disproves]

If u remove the nerf on rogues, they will be 1hit or combo aim+pierce imbued tank.

But i think 10% dmg reduction plus pet %dmg its a lot nerf.

I.E = rogue whit nightshde got 27% dmg nerf, i think a good nerf will be a total of 15%dmg.

I have 5220hp as a rogue, yesterday i got 75%hp dmg of my total hp from mage lightning.

My damage in town whit Nightsahde is 773 in pvp is 596, and yes i can 1 hit mage but if he shield first i probably will die if same gear and sometimes whit lower gear if he chain stun right or use breeze/samael/etc...

Vs warr whit equally gear its hard to kill but its possible, if he have lower gear is food ofc

If the damage nerf didn't exist, I still wouldn't be able to one shot tanks with my puny 520 damage. Anyways I have seen mages and tanks with 1k damage. Rouges 600 damage max in PvP.

[CheifR]

I look at it as other classes trying to catch up. Rogue is still strongest class in pvp. Recently rogues had the fix for nox and razor which made them stronger.
Isn't that a fix rather than a "buff"