Regarding Warrior PvE Enhancements

[Madnex]

Since we're finally looking to show some love to them tanks, let's do it properly! Even though I already had a good perception of the way warrior skills operate, the fastest way to get a solid grasp of every detail was making and leveling one. I've also discussed some of these ideas with top PvE warriors. Below are my conclusions.

http://i.imgur.com/6KS0aT4.png

To keep it short, there has to be a change in either the way threat generation works or in taunt skills mechanics. At the moment, taunt works like any other DoT for one to eight ticks. Sure it overrides everything else for the couple ticks it has but the problem is, it's not consistent enough because the extremely high DoT's from the other two classes (Noxious Bolt, Entangling Traps, Fireball/Frost Bolt/Time Shift) keep stacking so the mobs are rushing to the other party members right after each taunt tick.

It's especially harmful on bosses because when the bosses look away from the warrior every second, there's a very high chance that one of the killing red zone attacks will end up hitting the DPS. This is the primary reason why warriors are not favored in parties anymore - if the chance to get one-shot is high either way and you have to keep moving to avoid it, you might as well get more damage from another rogue or sorcerer to finish the map faster. It used to be better when Chest Splitter could cancel these dangerous hits but that's no longer the case.

SUGGESTION #1:
Remove the threat generation from any type of DoT.

Keep it only on impact damage hits. If this is too much to ask for all skills, at least apply it for some of the two classes' skills that have DoT ; we know that you can add specific rules for each one of them apart (eg. a year back there was a change on Timed Shift's ticks that allowed them to crit).


SUGGESTION #2:
Change the way taunt works.

When it's active, it will FORCE the affected mobs to FACE and attack the warrior ONLY. This means that even if a naked warrior taunts a boss and then runs across the boss room where three fully paragemmed rogues nuke it by spamming skills at it, its attention will NOT turn to them even for a split second. Plus this is how taunt works in every other large successful MMO I've played - it's always up to the tank's timing skills and never based on luck.


A few other things that could assist the warrior getting his rightful place back in PvE:
-The STR buffs from Vengeance Blood and Juggernaut should become a % and scale by level (eg. 10% of base STR).
-Allow the critical and damage buffs from Vengeful Blood to affect other party members too.
-Increase the chance for the target(s) of Chest Splitter to get disoriented when the skill is charged to 35%.
-Increase the number of mobs that Skyward Smash affects. Currently it's five (5) and I suggest it goes up to ten (10).
-Remove the 0.5s root that happens each time the warrior uses Axe Throw or charged Skyward Smash.
-Improve the Chest Splitter's range (eg. perhaps something closer to this (http://i.imgur.com/R2QQ5Nx.png)).

[Ravager]

Thanks. Good suggestions. Without really putting effort into thinking of extra things, the thing that comes to mind for chest splitter is to increase the range on it. It has HORRIBLE range. Thats why I usually don't get the upgrade on it that makes it hit 4. I'll be lucky enough if it actually hits 3.

[Twinisland]

Good idea but 5th skill slot would just be better to me plus adding Max hp to other classes would Make pvp worst so it'll be nice if that is pve only.

[Madnex]

Thanks. Good suggestions. Without really putting effort into thinking of extra things, the thing that comes to mind for chest splitter is to increase the range on it. It has HORRIBLE range. Thats why I usually don't get the upgrade on it that makes it hit 4. I'll be lucky enough if it actually hits 3.
This is true as well. I figured a workaround by standing still when using it and let the auto-aim help. SS > stay still > CS. I'll add it up either way!

[Newcomx]

I would like to add another suggestion to windmill.. Add/change one upgrade so that it can pull targets within range like rogue trap.

[Kingofninjas]

I have one suggestion to add. Let ALL bosses pulled by Axe throw. Tanks were actually wanted for tomb 2 back when scaling was possible.

Additionally, I implore sts to actually enter their own game and test the effects of changes on pve and PvP. After the recent Axe buff, I see rogues getting 1 comboed (Axe, as, cs and if the tank is skilled a charged normal attack) by tanks. Admittedly, there I'd a gear difference, but a tank 1 comboeing a player with 3.5k HP is ridiculous. This is without vb btw.

[Axesam]

dont u think it'll be boring ? So warrior just foccus on hp and armor for tanking and rog and mage focus on damage, crit and dps since they'll 100% save ?

uhmm and btw guys this thread is about PVE please keep it.

[Excuses]

Both major suggestions are nice. Especially about taunt which we all have been asking.

If taunt is longer and stronger, many other problems will be solved, no need to increase number of mobs that ss/cs hit and range of them. It will be just a bit handful which makes it depends on our control.

I would really like to see some buff on jugg (vg is useless in pve atm) too. But I suggest armor reducion like AT has than hp boost because I hope taunt works better. ;)

[Overweightank]

Since we're finally looking to show some love to them tanks, let's do it properly! Even though I already had a good perception of the way warrior skills operate, the fastest way to get a solid grasp of every detail was making and leveling one. I've also discussed some of these ideas with top PvE warriors. Below are my conclusions.

http://i.imgur.com/6KS0aT4.png

To keep it short, there has to be a change in either the way threat generation works or in taunt skills mechanics. At the moment, taunt works like any other DoT for one to eight ticks. Sure it overrides everything else for the couple ticks it has but the problem is, it's not consistent enough because the extremely high DoT's from the other two classes (Noxious Bolt, Entangling Traps, Fireball/Frost Bolt/Time Shift) keep stacking so the mobs are rushing to the other party members right after each taunt tick.

It's especially harmful on bosses because when the bosses look away from the warrior every second, there's a very high chance that one of the killing red zone attacks will end up hitting the DPS. This is the primary reason why warriors are not favored in parties anymore - if the chance to get one-shot is high either way and you have to keep moving to avoid it, you might as well get more damage from another rogue or sorcerer to finish the map faster. It used to be better when Chest Splitter could cancel these dangerous hits but that's no longer the case.

SUGGESTION #1:
Remove the threat generation from any type of DoT.

Keep it only on impact damage hits. If this is too much to ask for all skills, at least apply it for some of the two classes' skills that have DoT ; we know that you can add specific rules for each one of them apart (eg. a year back there was a change on Timed Shift's ticks that allowed them to crit).


SUGGESTION #2:
Change the way taunt works.

When it's active, it will FORCE the affected mobs to FACE and attack the warrior ONLY. This means that even if a naked warrior taunts a boss and then runs across the boss room where three fully paragemmed rogues nuke it by spamming skills at it, its attention will NOT turn to them even for a split second. Plus this is how taunt works in every other large successful MMO I've played - it's always up to the tank's timing skills and never based on luck.


A few other things that could assist the warrior getting his rightful place back in PvE:
-Allow the maximum HP increase upgrades from Vengeful Blood and Juggernaut to affect other party members too.
-Increase the number of mobs that Skyward Smash affects. Currently it's five (5) and I suggest it goes up to ten (10).
-Increase the chance for the target(s) of Chest Splitter when the skill is charged to 40% and let us know for how long the target is immune to disorientation after it's affected by it.
-Remove the 0.5s root that happens each time the warrior uses Axe Throw or charged Skyward Smash.
-Improve the Chest Splitter's range (eg. perhaps something closer to this (http://i.imgur.com/R2QQ5Nx.png)).

Amazing Guide. I loved the picture at the end, gave me a little chill :3

[Maarkus]

Really nice suggestions. I hope they consider and also look into Chest Splitter's Staggering blow upgrade as the cancel win ups if brought back will be really helpful in PVE.
Thanks

[Madnex]

Really nice suggestions. I hope they consider and also look into Chest Splitter's Staggering blow upgrade as the cancel win ups if brought back will be really helpful in PVE.
Thanks

Perhaps it could cancel some of the red zones but not all. So it'd be worth having a warrior in party without making the boss a walk in the park. Also, if they allow for the damage and crit buffs from VB to apply to the whole party, it'll make the total DPS difference from four DPS teams to three DPS plus a tank much smaller. This should not require much effort as it's already an upgrade on Rally Cry.

As a reminder, all these changes must be kept purely at pve for obvious reasons.

[carmine_blade]

I think VB should scale by lvl as its OP at low lvls and weak at end game, and (at least partially) be a group buff. As others have said, increase range on CS, and make taunts apply for x amount of seconds, rather than letting it be "stolen" by the DPS :)

[Ravager]

I think VB should scale by lvl as its OP at low lvls and weak at end game, and (at least partially) be a group buff. As others have said, increase range on CS, and make taunts apply for x amount of seconds, rather than letting it be "stolen" by the DPS :)

But he just emphasized PVE only.

[Bellaelda]

Yeah great suggestions...

Cs definitely needs to have its range or hit chance addressed... Since it fails so often!

And for holding aggro that dot would help a ton!

Would also love to see a boss stun or interrupt skill applied...
and a skill to buff party to make runs with a tank in group faster! (let's give tanks a chance at timed boards too!, lol)

[Madnex]

And something very important I forgot to mention that will benefit both PvE and PvP.

The STR buffs from Vengeance Blood and Juggernaut should become a % and scale by level.

50 STR is nothing in endgame and overpowered in lower levels. It'd be better if it added a set percent, eg. 10% of the base STR.

[Ardbeg]

Really nice suggestions. I hope they consider and also look into Chest Splitter's Staggering blow upgrade as the cancel win ups if brought back will be really helpful in PVE.
Thanks

it doesn t need to be a 100% cancel, but maybe 75% with charged cs, so timing is still needed. we re not asking for autotaunt or invincibility in presence of a tank here.
it s just that the prolonged runs cost usually more ankhs then the tank saves. in addition to lix usage.

again i state the axe throw buff was a great step in the right direction (should have been restricted to pve probably) and does reduce time.

but just some food for thought: kelvin can interrupt bosses, chest splitter - which was intended to interrupt can not -
if pets get better survival abilities then tanks can deliver, tanks have a problem.

[Trojan2100]

Hard to change anything without effecting pvp . I don't pvp but I can ou guess all the nerf , skill change is because of pvp.

Solution : pve set with taunt skills or something around there . Maybe have two different sets ? Pvp and pve eith separate set bonus?