Weapon Question

[izeonly]

Searched for an answer but to no avail so here's my question:

Is there a better 1H weapon than the Zuraz Shock Lance for a STR bear? It seems to have the highest base damage of all 1H, even more than the sunblessed scimitar etc.

Oh and anyone out there want to sell, trade or give me one? My poor bear is using a green spear :(

[Echelong]

So it seems but since the speed is so slow you will see that weapons like the Limbchopper of destiny give you more damage than the Zuraz. If you are using a pink the Limbchopper is pretty cheap 1-5k.

[wvhills]

I've got a limbchopper of destiny you can have. It's lvl 50. Add my bear if you want it.

[izeonly]

Oops I should have clarified. I'm asking because it seems for 1H weapons the lances gives the most skill damage. I mainly tank so I'm not too worried about DPS but would like a 1H that offers the highest skill damage.

So I should re-phrase. Is there a better 1H weapon for skill damage than the Zuraz Lance?

[Echelong]

its the same if you use the limbchopper you will get higher skill damage too. I test it out with my mage when I was dual spec and limbchopper gave more skill, base and dps damage.

For level 50 the higest damage for a 1h weapon is the limbchopper the Sunblessed scimitar is good if you have the set as well as the hate hax.

[wvhills]

I read on here somewhere that swords do more skill damage than other weapons. I used a plasma sword of thoth until level 45 then I couldn't find a better sword and started using a limbchopper. I've got a lvl 45, 47, and 50 limbchopper but won't use the 50 because I'll be using my rift scimitar then. :)

[izeonly]

To test it out I bought a lvl 45 plasma sword of osiris (70-75 dmg) and compared skill damage with my lvl 45 Luminous Harpoon of the Courageous (103-143 dmg)

Stomp - with Harpoon (189-205) with sword (172-189)
Super Mega Slash - with Harpoon (176-232) with sword (159-216)

I also don't see any 1H weapons that have higher base damage than the Zuraz Shock Lance. So am I missing something or is green harpoon giving much more skill damage than the pink plasma blade (and everything else for that matter)

[Echelong]

If you test the luminous harpoon and zuraz you will be disappointed with the skill damage and dps. Check the speed of both the problem is the Zuraz is the slowest 1h weapon in the game that is why base damage appears to high. Physio could get into the details of all that but I have enough numbers in my job right now lol.

I am only telling you because I thought the same thing as you and went out and tested it and was very disappointed.

[Moogerfooger]

I don't have the facts completely in front of me, but I believe the Zuraz has a proc (I think it is Break Armor) that helps make up for the slow speed.

The Zuraz is kind of like the Gurgox 2H Hammer....ridiculously slow, but good base damage that does more actual damage when you factor in enemy armor than some weapons that display higher DPS, because of the proc

I am pretty sure the lvl 50 Limbchopper has the highest 50 1h DPS (higher than the Shadow Hax, but not positive), but I don't think it has the highest base damage. However it is not part of set, whereas the Shadow Hax is part of the Hate Set which has some additional bonuses, and the Hax has an Execute proc.

P.s. SB Scimi is overrated, unless you are looking to complete the Rift set.

[wvhills]

I don't have the facts completely in front of me, but I believe the Zuraz has a proc (I think it is Break Armor) that helps make up for the slow speed.

The Zuraz is kind of like the Gurgox 2H Hammer....ridiculously slow, but good base damage that does more actual damage when you factor in enemy armor than some weapons that display higher DPS, because of the proc

I am pretty sure the lvl 50 Limbchopper has the highest 50 1h DPS (higher than the Shadow Hax, but not positive), but I don't think it has the highest base damage. However it is not part of set, whereas the Shadow Hax is part of the Hate Set which has some additional bonuses, and the Hax has an Execute proc.

P.s. SB Scimi is overrated, unless you are looking to complete the Rift set.

I am planning on starting with it to complete the set. Afterwards I'll mix and match and may find something that's better that makes up for losing the set bonus. I also have the gurgox hammer for when I really want to jump bad or somebody. Haha.

[Moogerfooger]

I am planning on starting with it to complete the set. Afterwards I'll mix and match and may find something that's better that makes up for losing the set bonus. I also have the gurgox hammer for when I really want to jump bad or somebody. Haha.

Mixing and matching sets often works, even when breaking up a set...just depends on your play style and what you like :D

I used Cyber Rift on my bear all the way until 55, it worked for me better than some of the 51 and 53 Sewer gear. I woulda used Hate, but I had sold mine off already....Hate is pretty good, if you can afford it.

Just keep your Armor above 140 (with rings, if needed) and your hit percent above 90% and you can easily do well in the Sewers :) Shadow Caves is a different story...that just takes great teamwork.

[izeonly]

I think maybe my question is getting a bit mixed up. I'm not worried about weapon DPS as I generally do most of my damage with my skills. What I'm wondering is if without set effects is the Zuraz Shock Lance the best 1H for skill damage?

I bought the Limbchopper but can't test it since I'm only lvl 46 but just from a look it (115-135) still has lower max dmg than my green harpoon (103-143) and lower overall damage than the Zuraz.

So is the Zuraz Shock Lance the best 1H weapon for bear skill damage?

[Moogerfooger]

Actually, a lot of your damage also comes from your base damage (i.e the 103-143 for your Harpoon), if you use Auto-Attack as well. And also, some warrior weapons have procs that help damage scores out indirectly. I would take a weapon (I am totally making this up) with 110-130 damage with an Execute proc over a non-proc weapon that had 115-135 damage, as a made-up example.

You may try PMing Ellyidol, he has posts all over the Warrior forum, he is probably the expert on all 50+ weapons and their procs for bears, as well as having a good understanding of how skill damages and weapons interreact.

I'll take a look at the Harpoon and Limbchopper when I get off work, and see what I find. What lvl is your Harpoon in question, a 45? I don't have Zuraz anymore, but maybe I can figure it out.

[Echelong]

When you get to 50 you will see that it depends on the speed and base damage. Base damage is not the only factor in determining skill damage.

[izeonly]

I still think there's some confusion. I'm not wondering about weapon DPS so weapon speed etc. are irrelevant. I'm wondering about PURE skill damage for 1H weapons. As far as I can tell the Zuraz Shock Lance has the highest pure skill damage of all the 1H weapons. Please someone tell me there's a lvl 50+ 1H I haven't seen that gives higher skill damage then the Zuraz. Otherwise I'm going to have to start saving up.

[Moogerfooger]

No one has mentioned DPS in the last few posts, so no one is confused.

If you are only focusing on a weapon's skill damage and ignoring all other aspects of a weapon, that is not necessarily a valid reason to carry a weapon. There is a reason why very few 50+ carry Zuraz.

I'll take a look at some of the inexpensive 50s and compare it to some of the ones I still have left lying around.

[Echelong]

sigh I know what you mean but your skills depend on the weapon speed and base damage. If the weapon is to slow it will lower your skill damage instead of making it higher.

[Moogerfooger]

All right, here is what I found. Remember, my bear is 56 so these numbers won't match yours, and I am dual spec Str/Dex so that will also make the numbers a bit different....but should still be able to show what I get in principle.

I used Cyber Armor/Helm/Shield for all of these comparisons, just to keep it even and only highlight weapon differences. Speed is just listed for the heck of it, although it does factor into weapon damage if one figures out true effective weapon attack damage accounting for enemy armor...although not being discussed further here.


Full Cyber, including Cyber Rift Sword: 126-135 base dmg, 0.8 speed w/ Execute proc: SuperMegaSlash (SMS) 183-243, Stomp 196-214

Cyber w/ 45 Scarab Blade of Osiris: 109-113 base dmg, 0.8 speed: SMS 170-230, Stomp 184-202

Cyber w/ 50 Limbchopper of Destiny: 157-177 base dmg, 0.9 speed: SMS 206-267, Stomp 220-238

Cyber w/ 45 Zuraz Shock Lance: 172-204 base dmg, 1.2 speed: SMS 173-233, Stomp 186-204, Break Armor proc

Cyber w/ 50 Luminous Harpoon of Courageous (green): 154-194 base damage, 1.0 speed: SMS 198-258, Stomp 212-230, no proc, inferior dodge and regen to pink version

Cyber w/ 50 Luminous Harpoon of Destiny (pink): 152-192 base dmg, 1.0 speed: SMS 196-257, Stomp 210-228, Break Armor proc


Looks to me, at least for my build, that using 45/50 weapons the very best skill damage was achieved using the Limbchopper with the pink 50 Harpoon coming in a close second. Zuraz lags behind a ways, and is barely better than the Scarab Osiris blade, at least for skill damage (although it does have a proc)

[kiitz]

Awesome. I've been following this thread and these numbers are really interesting Mooger. Anyway you can also check a few lvl 55 weapons - mainly fury 1h axe vs. fury 1h sword vs. bodyguard sword?

[Sky../]

Zuraz is notorioua for having the lowest skill damage contribution(realative to other weapons in range), whilst limchopper is one of very few axes that contributes a lot to skills damage.

[Ellyidol]

Awesome. I've been following this thread and these numbers are really interesting Mooger. Anyway you can also check a few lvl 55 weapons - mainly fury 1h axe vs. fury 1h sword vs. bodyguard sword?

I know for sure Fury 1H Swords have higher skill damage than the Axes.

Against the bodyguard sword, whichever has highest weapon damage would have highest skill damage.

[braluk]

Honestly, the best way to tell pure stats to just compare effect of weapons on your skills is to unequip everything and compare/contrast how your reported skills damage changed with different weapons. Given how complex the actual damage could be from using a skill in battle, I think this way is a simple and effective way to judge a weapon based on its own stats.

My stats

Level 53 Bear. 67 Dex, 238 Strength. Im going to totally unequip everything including rings and post just raw stats.

STATS ON SKILLS DAMAGE WITH WEAPONS:
Raw Stats- SMS(5) has 75-137dmg. Stomp(6) has 99-118. VS(1) has 36-63. CS(2) has 42-63.
Zuraz Shock Lance(1H)- SMS of 142-205. Stomp of 166-185. VS of 102-130. CS of 102-130.
Limbchopper of Destiny(1H)- SMS of 176-239. Stomp of 200-219. VS of 136-164. CS of 142-164. [Base Dmg 115-135, 0.9 Speed]
Gurgox Hammer(2H)- SMS of 195-259. Stomp of 219-239. VS of 155-184. CS of 161-184. [Base Dmg 194-269, 1.4 Speed]
Shadow Hax of Hate(1H)- SMS of 153-217. Stomp of 178-197. VS of 113-142. CS of 119-142. [Base Dmg 85-94, 0.8 Speed]
Luminous Harpoon of Destiny(1H)- SMS of 166-229. Stomp of 190-209. VS of 126-154. CS of 132-154. [Base Dmg 110-150, 1.0 Speed]
Plasma Axe of Rift(2H)- SMS of 165-229. Stomp of 189-209. VS of 125-154. CS of 131-154. [Base Dmg 159-239, 1.1 Speed]
Cleaner's Gemstone Sword(1H- Lvl 53)- SMS of 177-240. Stomp of 201-220. VS of 137-165. CS of 143-165. [Base Dmg 109-116, 1.0 Speed]
Force Cutter of Rift(1H)- SMS of 150-213. Stomp of 174-194. VS of 110-139. CS of 116-139. [Base Dmg 78-89, 0.8 Speed]
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Calculating how much a weapon contributes to skills damage will probably be dependent on base dmg and speed. This is calculated as follows (based off Physiologic's spreadsheet)
-----
[B]Average Dmg Contribution to Skill of Weapon = Subtract average raw dmg of skill when unequipped from average dmg of skill when equipped.
Percent of Weapon Dmg contributed to Skills= (Avg Dmg Contribution to Skill of Weapon)/(Average Base Dmg of Weapon)

Example:
Unequipped Raw Dmg of SMS = 75-137
Zuraz Shock Lance(1H)- SMS of 142-205 .
Avg Dmg Of SMS w/Lance = (142+205)/2 --> 173.5 Dmg. Average Raw dmg = (75+137)/2 --> 106 Dmg
Avg Dmg Contribution to SMS of Lance = 173.5 minus 106 --> [B]67.5 dmg
Average Base Damage of Lance --> (162+130)/2 --> 146 dmg
Percent of Weapon Dmg contributed to SMS= (67.5 addtl skill dmg of Lance)/(146 Avg Base Dmg of Lance) ~ 46.23% of Lance Dmg to Skill Dmg.
-----

Given this information, the following is a list of those attributes per weapon in order of increasing skill damage:
Zuraz Shock Lance(1H)- 67.5 additional skill dmg, 46.23% weapon contribution to SMS. [Base Dmg 130-162, 1.2 speed]
Force Cutter of Rift(1H)- 75.5 +skill dmg, 90.42% weapon contribution. [Base Dmg 78-89, 0.8 Speed]
Shadow Hax of Hate(1H)- 79 +skill dmg, 88.27% contribution. [Base Dmg 85-94, 0.8 Speed]
Plasma Axe of Rift(2H)- 91.0 +skill dmg, 45.73% contribution. [Base Dmg 159-239, 1.1 Speed]
Luminous Harpoon of Destiny(1H)- 91.5 +skill dmg, 70.38% contribution. [Base Dmg 110-150, 1.0 Speed]
Limbchopper of Destiny(1H)- 101.5 +skill dmg, 81.2% contribution. [Base Dmg 115-135, 0.9 Speed]
Cleaner's Gemstone Sword(1H- Lvl 53)- 102.5 +skill dmg, 91.11% contribution. [Base Dmg 109-116, 1.0 Speed]
Gurgox Hammer(2H)- 121 +skill dmg, 52.27% contribution. [Base Dmg 194-269, 1.4 Speed]
(quick run of the numbers for other skills yields very similar results +/- 1-4%)
-----
By those calculations, Zuraz actually contributes the least to skills damage. The base damage is one of the highest but less than half of it goes towards skills. It'd be good for someone that focuses very little on attack skills and someone who is a pure tank (decent hit, crit, and H/s stats make it good to make sure your aggro/debuff skills hit its mark). Otherwise, it is relatively useless, at least once you get to 50. The advantage of it is that it's primarily one of the better weapons for lvls 45 to 49. When you hit 50, you have a whole new range of much better weapons. Surprisingly, a Cleaner's Gemstone Sword, despite its lower Base Damage, probably does most for your bear's skills. With its dodge, crit, strength and armor stats, it's likely to be one of the best 1H's to be a well rounded bear that can tank yet possess rather powerful skill attacks. Gurgox Hammer is meant for a pure attacking bear, most likely someone respec'ed to have max skill points in attacking/debuffing- its Str, High Hit, and Crit stats back that up. Downside is that you lose ability to use a shield and probably should be used if you have a lead Tanking bear or multiple mages to keep you alive.

The only thing worth mentioning now is that this is only pure stats. I did not equip sets that increase damage or have set bonuses. I also did not include or test out any of those gear/weapons procs or stats. Different stats may alter ACTUAL damage versus theoretical damage, such as break armor stacks, or high crit/hit, etc.. Facing an opponent with their own armor/dodge/etc, will affect how your weapon adds to your skill set. This is just on weapons I own, with raw weapon stats on an otherwise unequipped bear. Ultimately your choice in a weapon in addition to effect skills damage really depends on your goals. A weapon with very good skills damage contribution may be awesome to make a map run smooth and quick, but also may be a poor choice if your team isn't powerful enough to compliment your skills. Hope this helped!

[Moogerfooger]

Nice breakdown, Braluk....a little hard to follow with the formatting, but the summary section is excellent!

Elly is correct, the Fury 1H sword has more skill damage than the Fury Axe, although I sold mine and am not going to drop the cash to rebuy just to get the numbers.

I may try this for the 55 non-Fury swords, they are pretty inexpensive. The Bodyguard 1H has pretty high (for a 1H) base damage, might be interesting to see how it and the other orange/greens stack up to the Cleaner's.

I personally used the Rooter's 1H sword all the way to 56, although it has a relatively low base damage, it has a hit% boost, and as Elly and I discovered, keeping one's hit percent close to 90 or above is pretty key to landing Taunt and Beckon much more effectively, as he and I are tanks with some damage mixed in. I was able to keep my hit at 94 running Sewer Helm and Plate, Rooter's Sword (cheap) and Bodyguard Shield (cheap) and Taunt and Beckon were very effective, armor and dodge and regen were good. I could opt for higher base damage weapons, but my hit would often drop to mid 80s level and I noticed Taunt and Beckon failing/missing much more often.

[wvhills]

Nice breakdown, Braluk....a little hard to follow with the formatting, but the summary section is excellent!

Elly is correct, the Fury 1H sword has more skill damage than the Fury Axe, although I sold mine and am not going to drop the cash to rebuy just to get the numbers.

I may try this for the 55 non-Fury swords, they are pretty inexpensive. The Bodyguard 1H has pretty high (for a 1H) base damage, might be interesting to see how it and the other orange/greens stack up to the Cleaner's.

I personally used the Rooter's 1H sword all the way to 56, although it has a relatively low base damage, it has a hit% boost, and as Elly and I discovered, keeping one's hit percent close to 90 or above is pretty key to landing Taunt and Beckon much more effectively, as he and I are tanks with some damage mixed in. I was able to keep my hit at 94 running Sewer Helm and Plate, Rooter's Sword (cheap) and Bodyguard Shield (cheap) and Taunt and Beckon were very effective, armor and dodge and regen were good. I could opt for higher base damage weapons, but my hit would often drop to mid 80s level and I noticed Taunt and Beckon failing/missing much more often.

I've pumped my dex up to where my hit % is 95. Do you think that's enough? My plan is to start putting the rest into STR. I want to tank.

[braluk]

Sorry for the crappy formatting. Was going to color code it but then got lazy. Nevertheless, the data is there. I just got the rooters myself, but is a Gemstone Battle Axe instead of sword (didn't see any in CS for lvl 53). I use it routinely for attacking and leading my groups now. Didn't notice any huge difference in skills damage between my old cleaner's sword and current Rooters battle axe.


Nice breakdown, Braluk....a little hard to follow with the formatting, but the summary section is excellent!

Elly is correct, the Fury 1H sword has more skill damage than the Fury Axe, although I sold mine and am not going to drop the cash to rebuy just to get the numbers.

I may try this for the 55 non-Fury swords, they are pretty inexpensive. The Bodyguard 1H has pretty high (for a 1H) base damage, might be interesting to see how it and the other orange/greens stack up to the Cleaner's.

I personally used the Rooter's 1H sword all the way to 56, although it has a relatively low base damage, it has a hit% boost, and as Elly and I discovered, keeping one's hit percent close to 90 or above is pretty key to landing Taunt and Beckon much more effectively, as he and I are tanks with some damage mixed in. I was able to keep my hit at 94 running Sewer Helm and Plate, Rooter's Sword (cheap) and Bodyguard Shield (cheap) and Taunt and Beckon were very effective, armor and dodge and regen were good. I could opt for higher base damage weapons, but my hit would often drop to mid 80s level and I noticed Taunt and Beckon failing/missing much more often.

[Moogerfooger]

I've pumped my dex up to where my hit % is 95. Do you think that's enough? My plan is to start putting the rest into STR. I want to tank.

Yes, 95 hit% should be good, I was running 94 and landing Taunt and Beckon the vast majority of the time, on at least most of the mob groups; a few will dodge here and there, but that is gonna happen no matter what sometimes.

@braluk, cool. I dig the Rooter's because of the hit% and crit boost (the crit was just an added bonus).

[mejslll]

should be a sticky... great post !