Veil or trap

[Kevin Halim]

What should i choose, veil or trap? Thx! :)

[Wazakesy]

Veil is a bit for parties that have 2 rogs or so.

I'd say traps, the damage over time and bleed is stackable, so you can end up wiping elite mobs in solos and party runs.

[Kevin Halim]

Veil is a bit for parties that have 2 rogs or so.

I'd say traps, the damage over time and bleed is stackable, so you can end up wiping elite mobs in solos and party runs.

Thanks!!! :)

[Avshow]

pros said : trap

[Madnex]

Traps are mainly for positioning mobs, usually to combo with Time Shift (clock) from sorcerer. The damage over time from bleed is very low and it raises a huge amount of aggro towards the rogue which you don't want in elites but is no issue if you're just soloing.

Veil buffs your armor/damage and debuffs the mobs' damage and hit%. You can position the mobs using aggro choke points by yourself.

Veil all the way!

[Tatman]

I'm using both at the moment. :)

[ClumsyCactus]

Veil 100% not even a question IMO

[Jazzi]

After getting 120 respec scrolls (lol) from opening golden arlor eggs I have been playing around with those. Prior to this I was using veil. Veil gives you a well felt increase in survive-ability. The damage increase aside (not much higher than what your pet is doing for you), its armor buff and hit reduction on the mobs is just great in elites. Traps on the other hand could increase your effective damage output by quite a bit, especially if you proc the 20% chance for another trap and stack the bleed/explode (as per Kalizzaa's advice). This however does attract a lot of aggro in your direction and could cause sudden death in t3 ;). When using traps I die 1-2 times per run in t3. With veil i die once every 2-4 runs. All this in a skilled pt.

@Tatman which skill did you take out in order to us both?

[ilhanna]

I use both since I run mostly with average-geared and -skilled pt from my guild. I find runs go faster if warrior tanks the trapped mobs rooted by mage clock while inside a veil ring.

[Tatman]

@Tatman which skill did you take out in order to us both?
No, I don't use them at the same time. I always run with aimed/nox/pierce + either traps or veil depending on the situation. Btw, traps 5/5 actually does a significant amount of damage, I like it. I had to sacrifice armor though, which combined with the increased aggro I draw, leads to some sudden deaths indeed. :)

[Lufi]

Traps are mainly for positioning mobs, usually to combo with Time Shift (clock) from sorcerer. The damage over time from bleed is very low and it raises a huge amount of aggro towards the rogue which you don't want in elites but is no issue if you're just soloing.

Veil buffs your armor/damage and debuffs the mobs' damage and hit%. You can position the mobs using aggro choke points by yourself.

Veil all the way! Your spec sucks Madnex. Please use traps....I miss them

[GoodSyntax]

My general rule of thumb on this argument:

If you run with DMG and/or DMG reduction elixirs most of the time, have top end gear, or run with very skilled parties, use Traps; otherwise, use Veil.

The bleed damage from Traps stack (awesomely) and the explode seems to concentrate 4-5 ticks of bleed damage into one AoE burst (when it Crits), so the added damage is a nice bonus on top of the crowd control. When you get on to a lucky streak and can drop 4-6 traps in a large pull, the bleed and explosions do considerable damage, and WILL speed up your run. The flip side of the added damage is that it does generate a lot of additional aggro, so unless you have the gear, a tank in party, or just know how to survive, be aware that you will be taking a pounding as 5 traps chain explode and you deal thousands of DMG across all mobs in range. The larger the pull, and more concentrated the mobs, the more effective traps will be. But, stacking bleed and chain explosions are stronger than any taunt, so for a couple of seconds in each pull, you'll be fighting for your life (and ankh).

Veil is a great skill if you primarily run pure, are in average geared/skilled parties, do not have enough survivability (<3.2k HP, <1.3k armor), or are not experienced with large pulls and aggro. The buff/debuff is considerable, and worthwhile, so long as it isn't being cancelled by elixirs. To be honest, I've seen too many players scramble to get to a Veil spot, even though they are running with elixirs. Most players probably aren't aware that if you have DMG and DMG Reduction elixirs, the only benefit you get from Veil is the mob hit debuff. To me, reduced hit chance for a few seconds doesn't bring a lot of benefit, and I definitely frown on players that run to get the "benefit" of Veil and ruin pull locations, causing mobs to reset all over the place. If you run with Veil, drop it AFTER mobs are gathered for maximum efficiency. I see a lot of players drop Veil before mobs get to a location, and by the time the pack arrives, Veil is gone and so are it's benefits. Don't be afraid to wade into a mob cluster to drop Veil. If the Tank and Sorc are doing their job, the threat of proper Veil placement is minimal, but the benefit is huge.

[Madnex]

Perhaps Traps would be better when running Tombs (except for the planar ones), where its damage is probably noticeable. From Tindirin and up though and especially in the new expansion, the mob leash range for reset have been greatly shortened and had their numbers reduced.

A few more things on Veil. With two skilled rogues using it you can keep up its buffs 100% of the time and as we go forth, the benefits of % buffs are increasingly helpful. Also, Veil is pretty useful on bosses too and lowers the incoming damage by a whole lot if both you and the enemy are standing in it. Alternatively, you can use it as a small damage buff from safe distance if you don't like getting close.

TL; DR: If you run easy tombs for leveling up, traps. For elites and normal maps, veil. Using both lowers your mana potion consumption but also lowers your damage output by a whole lot.

[GoodSyntax]

Perhaps Traps would be better when running Tombs (except for the planar ones), where its damage is probably noticeable. From Tindirin and up though and especially in the new expansion, the mob leash range for reset have been greatly shortened and had their numbers reduced.

A few more things on Veil. With two skilled rogues using it you can keep up its buffs 100% of the time and as we go forth, the benefits of % buffs are increasingly helpful. Also, Veil is pretty useful on bosses too and lowers the incoming damage by a whole lot if both you and the enemy are standing in it. Alternatively, you can use it as a small damage buff from safe distance if you don't like getting close.

TL; DR: If you run easy tombs for leveling up, traps. For elites and normal maps, veil. Using both lowers your mana potion consumption but also lowers your damage output by a whole lot.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here.

I find traps immensely useful in all elites. Ever since the Bleed functions were fixed, bleed damage AND explode damage increased significantly, and bleed finally stacks, which is why I am suddenly so pro-traps now. Prior to the fix, I only recommended traps for the crowd control ability, not as a 4th damaging skill.

[notfaded1]

traps are mainly for positioning mobs, usually to combo with time shift (clock) from sorcerer. The damage over time from bleed is very low and it raises a huge amount of aggro towards the rogue which you don't want in elites but is no issue if you're just soloing.

Veil buffs your armor/damage and debuffs the mobs' damage and hit%. You can position the mobs using aggro choke points by yourself.

Veil all the way!


why not both???

[notfaded1]

Traps are mainly for positioning mobs, usually to combo with Time Shift (clock) from sorcerer. The damage over time from bleed is very low and it raises a huge amount of aggro towards the rogue which you don't want in elites but is no issue if you're just soloing.

Veil buffs your armor/damage and debuffs the mobs' damage and hit%. You can position the mobs using aggro choke points by yourself.

Veil all the way!

I agree with omni but... I also agree with Kalizzaa!!! I say both! Why choose! Traps also do nice damage too and let you control mobs like a sorc almost! ALSO not noted by MADNEX the explode option to traps is also fixed! So why not both. I don't even use SP normally unless doing timed now. Also with the right gear you can tank as a rogue all day long and, for now at least, don't even need a WAR. (Sorry but it is true guys much to my dismay)

[debitmandiri]

Shadow veil, my reason same as madnex...
Im running with everyone ( mage rog or tank), so veil is the most flexible/efficient skill to use with any condition (lix on/off)

[Zylx]

Best WT4 solo grind build:

Aimed
Nox
Trap
Veil

I love this build!

[Serancha]

I spec both and swap them in when I need. Traps for enhanced, and veil for pure.

@the post above - no build is complete without pierce. It's a major damage dealer.

[Dex Scene]

I don't use either of them atm but I love to have both skill in my party!!
When one rogue knows well usage of traps, it makes the run so faster and clean!! Love it!!!

I love veil too.
I get yay when my friends use veil for us ^=^
I always tell them thank you :)

Maybe traps on normal map and Veil on boss and elites?

[Fyrce]

I agree with everyone -- both are useful. I have them in my spec and use one or the other, rarely both at the same time, depending on the situation. I like traps a lot but if the area is not triggering them a lot (bosses for example), then veil can be more useful. I also like veil better in the arena.

Generally I favor traps unless it looks like they're not being triggered and/or the party is dying too much or it looks like veil's buffs are more useful.

[Terminhater]

I use both.

[Candylicks]

If you run w/ another rogue that is using veil then you don't need it. Just pop in theirs for the buff. I am not a huge fan of veil, I prefer traps and veil to me feels like a wasted skill.

[Abersit]

Trap also help in croud controll especially when its 5/5.
But its problem is the aggro
But i use it anyway .

[Jazzi]

I am curious if you charge trap? Nothing in the description says anything about what changes if it is charged. Thanks in advance for sharing

[BlueSkied]

I have both spec'd in my current build. Traps are a godsend in t3 and can nicely mop mobs up for a sexy clock; when it's time for any boss I switch to veil for the buffs to fire from distance. Though I am guilty of playing a little too yolo and running into mobs to lay traps #thuglife

[Tatman]

I am curious if you charge trap? Nothing in the description says anything about what changes if it is charged. Thanks in advance for sharing
As far as I know, you gain nothing from charging traps. :)

[debitmandiri]

As far as I know, you gain nothing from charging traps. :)

It adds the trap duration when it is charged. 10 non charged, 15 charged

[Newcomx]

Trap!

15% dmg from veil useless if you have 15% dmg bonus from pet. As for armor bonus, warrior these days already have high armor even without veil. Sorc and Rogue usually run around, so not always in the veil circle.

With trap you can manage mobs, give multiple dmg, root, & slow.

[Tatman]

It adds the trap duration when it is charged. 10 non charged, 15 charged
First time I hear this tbh, would be nice if we could actually read it in the description of the skill. Anyway, even if true, it's a waste of time to charge imo.

[Jazzi]

First time I hear this tbh, would be nice if we could actually read it in the description of the skill. Anyway, even if true, it's a waste of time to charge imo.

I had heard v the part about the duration too. I am gonna test or out and see if true. If that is the only change it is not much of an advantage. Thanks for the replies

[Newcomx]

It adds the trap duration when it is charged. 10 non charged, 15 charged

Yeah... this is true, but not stated in the skill description

[Wazakesy]

Honestly, I'd rather use traps, or i'd just make my own build :3