No one wana party with tanks in elite and arena

[Ice]

I notice no one want to party with Tank and Elite runs.

So Tanks are only useful in PVP now, if no one want to farm with tank how will tanks get geared?
Also i notice a lot of great tanks made a rouge or mage account for farming.
What will happen if tanks will change class to rouge LOL...

STS need to balance this, Make sure in all runs they need a tanks! Double or triple the damage of elite bosses that only tanks survive in its Special skills or something. in this care they will need a tank so boss wont reset back to full HP.

[Newcomx]

I've run random entry to planar arena map yesterday using my sorc... all I can find is tank with no party (even with high dmg), some sorc, and hardly find rogue. Finally end up exit the map because too many tank. Rogue is full booked I guess... lol.

[vikram bhat]

Yes .. Ice s right . I HV also noticed .. No one wanna need warrio in arena or elite maps .so plz sts replay to this useful post :)

[Trojan2100]

Sts did mention more class balance on expansion . On the other hand I have no idea why they though this event was good idea . It is good idea but only handful of ppl can benefit from this .

[Eldorado]

Rogue have decent armor, good heal skill, good support skill and massive damage. All in one package. Hope STS will soon realize that arcane legends is becoming rogue legends. Who needs a tank and a mage if rogue have it all right? Better make a rogue, because I really do not expect much because rogue being OP was an an issue for a long time now.

[Arvaen]

Who needs a tank and a mage if rogue have it all right?

Had the wolf guy + spiders in arena yesterday. Two mages + two rogues.

I needed a tank. Lol.

[Eldorado]

Had the wolf guy + spiders in arena yesterday. Two mages + two rogues.

I needed a tank. Lol.

Depends on your gear and strategy. Even if you have a tank if under geared, then you will die. Fully geared will always run the dungeon as fast as possible and really will not require a tank because of ankhs. The faster the run the more loots and who do not want that? Yes it consumes more but also produce a lot more. Who needs a protector if it will just slow them down.

[Harteschale]

I notice no one want to party with Tank and Elite runs.

So Tanks are only useful in PVP now, if no one want to farm with tank how will tanks get geared?
Also i notice a lot of great tanks made a rouge or mage account for farming.
What will happen if tanks will change class to rouge LOL...

STS need to balance this, Make sure in all runs they need a tanks! Double or triple the damage of elite bosses that only tanks survive in its Special skills or something. in this care they will need a tank so boss wont reset back to full HP.

I don`t know how many threads we will open until STS change something in this case. In Elite Tombs, Arena ... tanks get onehited by a boss but the rouge still stay there. Tanks need a skill or something like that ... so we can't onehited in boss-fights, elite and arena and get a "USE". Cause this must be our strength! I really think with the class-balance nothing will changed and they don't know what the "real" problem is. And yeah ... in pvp tanks are sometimes needed but thats really the only "USE" for us. As a legendary tank like me you can forget everything and its getting boring. I mean i spend a lot of f***ing money but I´m still a poor nab(so its pissed me more of), which can't do anything in this game cause no one wanna play with you (like me as a legendary tank). The whole game based on luck ... i farmed hard and saw other people looting the best gear but when i still get nothing for spending money, hard farming where is the sense? Other people r standing in city and try to merch the whole day ... or waiting for invites like the most sad tanks or normal geared people. Something musst changed "now" cause the system of the game is really really freaky ;-). Just my feelings so i don`t wanna discuss about something !

[Oursizes]

If you can't find an arena party, you're in the wrong guild then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't karma/horror a guild for PvP? Zeus posted a good tip in one of the threads, I suggest you go look it up. Also, the reason many don't want tanks is because they get one hitted anyways, won't really make a difference. Bloodhammer=1hit, glob red zone=1hit, frostir sometimes=1hit, glob charge 1hit, lol... Ferrix=too many attacks+pools..
Personally I don't mind playing with tanks, so long as its not more than one in the party, or else it will just become too slow, and prox circle is gg

[Fyrce]

Or just more hps than they already have, since they do not dodge well. If tanks can stay alive and hold aggro, they'd be much more valuable. Better still if they can buff a team to kill faster or have amazing mob debuffs, they'd be invaluable.

[Madnex]

Made a topic with suggestions on how to improve warriors in PVE a while back but it doesn't seem STS want to go ahead with any significant changes for now. You can go support it if you want though, never know. :)

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?222224-Regarding-Warrior-PvE-Enhancements

[Serancha]

An arena run is approximately 1:30 slower with a maxed warrior and 3 rogues, than it is with 4 rogues given equal bosses and effects. With a mage AND a warrrior (both geared) with 2 rogues, that time increase is 2-2:30 slower than with 4 rogues. So instead of 3:30, we're looking at an average of 5-6 minutes, (or slower if the warrior has bulwark, or the warrior and mage are not fully geared).

I'm not classist, some of my best friends are fatties and smurfs, but when it comes to efficiency, nothing tops 4 rogues.

[supersyan]

Face the reality. This is Arcane facebook

[Titanfall]

Join an elite farming guild :3 easy to find runs

[Arazaanikl]

Yesterday I was wanting to run arena but no one wanted to run cuz I'm a warr. We warr need to be loved to :)

[Pedgon]

I notice no one want to party with Tank and Elite runs.

So Tanks are only useful in PVP now, if no one want to farm with tank how will tanks get geared?
Also i notice a lot of great tanks made a rouge or mage account for farming.
What will happen if tanks will change class to rouge LOL...

STS need to balance this, Make sure in all runs they need a tanks! Double or triple the damage of elite bosses that only tanks survive in its Special skills or something. in this care they will need a tank so boss wont reset back to full HP.

So true...people are greedy...very much..if you know what i mean bro..

[Imsofancy]

Wanna* not wana.

[Ardbeg]

An arena run is approximately 1:30 slower with a maxed warrior and 3 rogues, than it is with 4 rogues given equal bosses and effects. With a mage AND a warrrior (both geared) with 2 rogues, that time increase is 2-2:30 slower than with 4 rogues. So instead of 3:30, we're looking at an average of 5-6 minutes, (or slower if the warrior has bulwark, or the warrior and mage are not fully geared).

I'm not classist, some of my best friends are fatties and smurfs, but when it comes to efficiency, nothing tops 4 rogues.

the times are correct based on my experience (on tank and rogue).
and the sad truth is, the longer the runs take, the more pots and ankhs the party has to use. it gets bad if the party fails to kill bosses before they enrage.
i run a lot with mixed parties on my tank and enjoy it, but on my rogue in a full rogue party we did a 4 min run today without sweat. the only death was me, because i m used to tank glob...
i recorded the run to document what s going wrong here: it s not only faster, it s also easier and cheaper (ofc also a bit boring from a tank perspective). i m looking for a way to cut and post it.

[Serancha]

Yes, that's the thing.

The longer a party takes to kill:

• the more red zones you need to dodge
• the more likely bosses are to enrage
• more mushrooms explode per boss
• ferrix drops several tons more acid
• all of the above mean more deaths

Nobody likes more death because it gets expensive, slows you down further, and just isn't fun. So when you could kill a boss in 30-35 seconds, choosing to kill it in double that time just isn't logical. It's not greed, it's time management. That being said, I do run with warriors and mages, but if I have invites from 2 parties at the same time - one mixed class and one of all rogues - I will usually pick the rogues.

Putting stun and block windup back on Chest Splitter the way they originally were would solve a lot of these extra death issues. However, until some way is made to make it equally or more efficient to mix classes, rogue parties are going to be the most efficient for PvE.

[Zylx]

The reason is because top geared rogues have about 5k+ health and ~1,600 armor, so most of them are able to tank fairly well, with the addition of 800-900 damage, which is double that of a top-geared warrior. So basically, if you have a warrior and you intend on running mainly PvE, you should probably delete it and make a rogue. STS has made the warrior class practically useless.

[BeoNeo]

Sometimes mages are ignored too.its not only tanks.(im talking about average mages)

[Kingofninjas]

The reason is because top geared rogues have about 5k+ health and ~1,600 armor, so most of them are able to tank fairly well, with the addition of 800-900 damage, which is double that of a top-geared warrior. So basically, if you have a warrior and you intend on running mainly PvE, you should probably delete it and make a rogue. STS has made the warrior class practically useless.

The damage count here is irrelevant. its the skill damage. There are tanks with 600-700 damage, but their skills are not meant to deal damage. That is the rogues job. If you wish to go by pure numbers, mages have the most damage and even have more hp than rogues. With an arcane maul, tanks also have more damage than rogues.

[Zylx]

The damage count here is irrelevant. its the skill damage. There are tanks with 600-700 damage, but their skills are not meant to deal damage. That is the rogues job. If you wish to go by pure numbers, mages have the most damage and even have more hp than rogues. With an arcane maul, tanks also have more damage than rogues.
So you mean to tell me that warriors have more damage than rogues? LOL

[Ardbeg]

The damage count here is irrelevant. its the skill damage. There are tanks with 600-700 damage, but their skills are not meant to deal damage. That is the rogues job. If you wish to go by pure numbers, mages have the most damage and even have more hp than rogues. With an arcane maul, tanks also have more damage than rogues.

right, if you equip the arcane maul, your autoattack damage is displayed, cancelled by the very low dps of the maul.
to compare the skill damage, you have to look at the number in the skill trees, for example skyward smash. if you do that you will find out maul, magma swords and bulwarks are not so far away from each other. it s the saw that stands out in skill damage and dps.

just a warr example, because i am most familiar with it.the important thing to note is: what is the skill damage, is it single target or aoe,...

[Ardbeg]

So you mean to tell me that warriors have more damage than rogues? LOL

displaywise a tank can reach over 900 dmg with maul equiped without lix or buffs. that s more then rogues can reach in stats. but as explained above, this is highly misleading.

edit: sorry for derailing the discussion, pm me for more.

[Zylx]

displaywise a tank can reach over 900 dmg with maul equiped without lix or buffs. that s more then rogues can reach in stats. but as explained above, this is highly misleading.

edit: sorry for derailing the discussion, pm me for more.
I've never seen a warrior with more than 600 damage

[Fiasaria]

I've never seen a warrior with more than 600 damage

seriously ? in expedition camp u can see more than 5 wars with 700-899dmg in a day

[Avshow]

my max endurance is :at most 1 tank in pt, if we have 2+ tanks in a pt, finishing time will become extramly long, also if consider enrage case, that's almost 100% boss will enrage

[Alhuntrazeck]

Simple.

Make rogues' HP lower than mages, let armor remain the same. When rogues have 5k HP and avoid 1 shots, that's when you know the game's screwed up.

I don't mean a nerf to a rogue's stats, that would severely cripple undergeared rogues. I mean, make the best gear focus more on damage and crit than on HP and armor. Rogues are the killing-machine-gun-enraged-inan'hesh class, we can't have them having so much HP now can we!

[Avshow]

lol comparing with tank have 9k+ hp and 2.8k+ armor, u think 5k hp for rogue is enough?

Just make the map harder to survive.



Simple.

Make rogues' HP lower than mages, let armor remain the same. When rogues have 5k HP and avoid 1 shots, that's when you know the game's screwed up.

I don't mean a nerf to a rogue's stats, that would severely cripple undergeared rogues. I mean, make the best gear focus more on damage and crit than on HP and armor. Rogues are the killing-machine-gun-enraged-inan'hesh class, we can't have them having so much HP now can we!

[Serillia]

Here's my thoughts......Give rogues tails so we can look like rogues with tail. Thank you so much sts for implemementing this. We love you :*

[Alhuntrazeck]

lol comparing with tank have 9k+ hp and 2.8k+ armor, u think 5k hp for rogue is enough?

Just make the map harder to survive.

Rogues are the damage class, I think it was an unintended oversight for them to have too much HP.

Let's face it, every elite map is a piece of cake for a maxed out rogue - doesn't even pose a challenge when you complete the hardest map in the game, PT3, in under 5 minutes, no?

What I meant is, rogues should have lots of damage and crit but low HP. Then you'd need a tank in the party. If you made maps harder you'd make it nearly impossible for lower geared people to run. And the logic of those lower geared people farming for better gear by running other maps doesn't apply since many people can't afford to drop tens of thousands of dollars to get gear...

[Wazakesy]

The reason is because top geared rogues have about 5k+ health and ~1,600 armor, so most of them are able to tank fairly well, with the addition of 800-900 damage, which is double that of a top-geared warrior. So basically, if you have a warrior and you intend on running mainly PvE, you should probably delete it and make a rogue. STS has made the warrior class practically useless.

meh, the sole purpose of a rogue is to cause damage. I personally have crit'd about 5.8k already on ferrix in arena, with my expedition bow. I was LMAO... Like literally im imagining the damage i will cause when my planar amulet gets crafted. There's a number of stuff that separates the warrior class from the other 2 classes. I highly find a warrior useful in exploding mushrooms, and a mage very useful in spider (yes, environments). The sole purpose of PvE maps, was supposed to be that all classes's abilities work, and allow them to run efficiently in any map. The skills and class roles arent effective, i find them a bit useless right now. In t3 at the boss fight, i was able to even pull the bosses attention very easily, just 2 nox bolts followed by one aimed shot dragged him. The warrior was using CS, SS, i even told him to use windmill, I wasnt even attacking, yet his attention was drawn to the mage....He even used heal with the taunt upgrade. As Sir Maddy Suggested (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?222224-Regarding-Warrior-PvE-Enhancements) change the way taunt works even if 3 full para gem'd rogues nuke the boss.

[Jirikjurasek]

making Vengeful Blood as party buff in PvE. It could be very helpful in below points:
1) tanks role in party is to protect - 50 strength from VB will add HP and make survivability of party better
2) tank slows runs - 25% crit will boost dmg of rest of the party and difference between damage output of party of 4 rogues/mages and party with 1 warr will be smaller. 25% to dmg help in the same way.
3) Common opinion is: Best party is 4 (or 3) rogues/mages. Sometimes one warrior can join on few runs. More than one warrior in party is taboo - with Vengeful Blood as party buff which stack, I can easy imagine even 2-4 warrior in party, because 50 strength add damage only to warriors (profit of other classes is only HP), so with more than one VB buff stack, warriors will become small dmg dealers as well.
4) With this change, mages will get better position in parties too, because their survivability thanks to 50 strength boost their shield skill.

[Axesam]

Increase drop rate 2x chance for tank and mage....

[CheifR]

Rogue have decent armor, good heal skill, good support skill and massive damage. All in one package. Hope STS will soon realize that arcane legends is becoming rogue legends. Who needs a tank and a mage if rogue have it all right? Better make a rogue, because I really do not expect much because rogue being OP was an an issue for a long time now.
Good heal skill?! A support skill?!?! What game have you been playing

[Jazzi]

making Vengeful Blood as party buff in PvE. It could be very helpful in below points:
1) tanks role in party is to protect - 50 strength from VB will add HP and make survivability of party better
2) tank slows runs - 25% crit will boost dmg of rest of the party and difference between damage output of party of 4 rogues/mages and party with 1 warr will be smaller. 25% to dmg help in the same way.
3) Common opinion is: Best party is 4 (or 3) rogues/mages. Sometimes one warrior can join on few runs. More than one warrior in party is taboo - with Vengeful Blood as party buff which stack, I can easy imagine even 2-4 warrior in party, because 50 strength add damage only to warriors (profit of other classes is only HP), so with more than one VB buff stack, warriors will become small dmg dealers as well.
4) With this change, mages will get better position in parties too, because their survivability thanks to 50 strength boost their shield skill.

A great suggestion sir. This will make warriors extremely useful indeed ! This is from a rogue's point of view.

P.S. Even with 5 k health and 1600 armor rogues get one hit a lot. I don't have those stats, but have played with such rogues many times. They do get one hit in both arena and t3.

[SacredKnight]

Rogues are getting up there, with their average armour and health plus their huge DMG,DPS and CRIT they're easily preferred over the low HP, High but still lower than rogue DMG and DPS or the High HP, High armour but low DMG and DPS warrior.

To be honest mages spells need to be buffed as well as have their mana cost and CD decreased, there for them being a caster style class makes sense.
Secondly warriors need a armour and health buff, they should be able to take a Crit from a rogue and not be half dead, they should be able to sustain boss DMG. If you ask me there should be a new skill where the warrior takes all DMG from allies, doubles HP and Armour and increases health regen effects by 500%.

[Serancha]

Good heal skill?! A support skill?!?! What game have you been playing

We're talking about PvE here. Nobody of any class needs to be using heal skills.



As for damage, it is just number on a page. It really means nothing unless comparing within the same class. Even then it doesn't always mean much.

[Sundar Moorthi]

I notice no one want to party with Tank and Elite runs.

So Tanks are only useful in PVP now, if no one want to farm with tank how will tanks get geared?
Also i notice a lot of great tanks made a rouge or mage account for farming.
What will happen if tanks will change class to rouge LOL...

STS need to balance this, Make sure in all runs they need a tanks! Double or triple the damage of elite bosses that only tanks survive in its Special skills or something. in this care they will need a tank so boss wont reset back to full HP.

in my guild rogue/mage get party for arena randomly but tanks r crying over and over

[Sundar Moorthi]

Dont Worry My Dear Tanks after the New Expansion Tanks will be treats like a god the new expansion make the game change without tank you couldn't finish an map without die (party) and the tank dmg wil be nerfed in pve like rogues (eavesdrop) :-)

[Ice]

Good Feed back... just keep it clean..

1.) improved Boss damage - when boss damage goes higher im sure they will need a tank to taunt boss and hold him.

2.) Lower Rouge HP - Rouge dont need high HP if there is a tank around taking for them, they just snipe outside.

Yes i maybe on a pvp guild but we also do elite stuff. base on my experience no matter what guild you are tanks are not need anymore in elite.

1.) 4 rouges are faster - Less time on elite map not only they finish the map fast but they also have the chance to get the time run banner. its like hitting two birds in one stone. farming and doing time runs.

2.) rouge dont need tanks because boss are weak! there is no need for tank to stick around it will just make the party slow- in short tank is a burden LOL.

[KingMartin]

Our guild is a 90% farming guild and I can tell you my experience:

Yes, tanks have hard times to find a party, mainly because of three reasons:

1) there can be max one tank in the party otherwise enraged mode turns into a nightmare

2) many rogues don't know how to max damage output and blame tank

3) if there's already a mage in the party, adding tank reduces the damage dealt significantly

But! I noticed that running with a good tank (and we have such), we rogues die significantly less! Yesterday I grinded arena for about four hours with one of our tanks, the runs took approx 7-9 mins, but I used not more than 30 ankhs (half of them thanks to continuous PM inflow)! When I run in a typical dps party, i get significantly more attention from the bosses, resulting in higher ankh consumption.

If STS tweaked the mechanics a bit, for example when enraged boss can't one hit tank, usage of tanks would significantly increase, I'm sure!

[Onepiedead]

Solution: Buff all elite maps, so tanks are needed. Or jsut remove the class.

[Jeffgeomon]

The bottom line here is: rogues are meant to excel in killing bosses, which is the primary role for rogues in pve, the other being killing the mob with the highest-threat. Warriors are obviously not desired, nor are mages desired for bosses, so rogues become ultimately favoured.

Lessening a rogue's hp or increasing a boss' dmg won't change this, nor will it change the fact that rogues will (still) deal more damage, especially since rogues would just ankh revive after a death and continue hitting bosses with high damage.

The problem here lies in STS, for the fact that it is currently an event for arena, which is a boss-based map. This means that rogues are going to dominate. I suggest maps that are also: mobs-based and high-threat level based, which would allow mages and wars to be more desirable in a party.

However, I do agree warriors need to be tweaked cleverly in a way that doesn't destroy the role of other classes. The introduction of ankhs has really hit those fatties bad. :3

[Ice]

The bottom line here is: rogues are meant to excel in killing bosses, which is the primary role for rogues in pve, the other being killing the mob with the highest-threat. Warriors are obviously not desired, nor are mages desired for bosses, so rogues become ultimately favoured.

Lessening a rogue's hp or increasing a boss' dmg won't change this, nor will it change the fact that rogues will (still) deal more damage, especially since rogues would just ankh revive after a death and continue hitting bosses with high damage.

The problem here lies in STS, for the fact that it is currently an event for arena, which is a boss-based map. This means that rogues are going to dominate. I suggest maps that are also: mobs-based and high-threat level based, which would allow mages and wars to be more desirable in a party.

However, I do agree warriors need to be tweaked cleverly in a way that doesn't destroy the role of other classes. The introduction of ankhs has really hit those fatties bad. :3

So your suggestion is to remove ankhs ? if we remove ankhs all rouge may die in last part of the map or boss map then boss reset to full HP...so they need atleast 1 or 2 on party that dont die easily on last boss.

[Jeffgeomon]

So your suggestion is to remove ankhs ? if we remove ankhs all rouge may die in last part of the map or boss map then boss reset to full HP...so they need atleast 1 or 2 on party that dont die easily on last boss.

Tanks won't die easily on the last boss! :) Some sort of ankh-restriction would foster more tanks to participate in runs. However, it is not necessary for them to be completely removed, as farming efficiency becomes another matter. Maybe its time to implement a revive skill for wars? XD

My point is that since arena favours rogues due to bosses, why not have maps that include only mobs (for mages), and hard hitting enemies (for tanks)? Also, tanks should be revised in pve, which the devs are already working on.

[aneshsinghblu]

I notice no one want to party with Tank and Elite runs.

So Tanks are only useful in PVP now, if no one want to farm with tank how will tanks get geared?
Also i notice a lot of great tanks made a rouge or mage account for farming.
What will happen if tanks will change class to rouge LOL...

STS need to balance this, Make sure in all runs they need a tanks! Double or triple the damage of elite bosses that only tanks survive in its Special skills or something. in this care they will need a tank so boss wont reset back to full HP.

sorry to hear that you are not able to gets party for elites.
I personally always prefer a warrior in my pt. . . I,get less deaths that way. . also not all warriors are the same. . the warrior I use knows his job is to protect the rest and take aggro. some warriors wanna be rogues. . . coming to pve with pvp Skills and no aggro taunts!
and pls stop suggesting that sts introduce more one hit kills. . one hit kill has angered many players. . even to the point of some leaving the game

[Ghoul]

Yeah well. I hope STS doesn't apply whatever warrior buff they may or may not apply to PvP as well. The -25% armor on ax was unnecessary. It didn't help much in PvE, but did in PvP...and PvP is where they need no looking at whatsoever.

[Oursizes]

Let's face the facts though... it's not ALWAYS the tank's skills being bad, but the tanks themselves. I don't mind running with tanks at all, so long as they have the proper knowledge and build to hold aggro of bosses. When running with great tanks from my guild, I use far less ankhs than I would if i ran with all DPS. However, I've done runs with some (unnecessary) tanks that use vb, axe throw, horn of renew, and rally cry in their build, in t3!!! It's tanks like this that make many others look bad, and therefore the whole tank population gets frowned upon. There's many great tanks out there to be honest. I've run with max legendary tanks that run better than some tanks with nekro(firsthand experience). I have 1-2 go-to tanks on my friends list, and quite a few in the guild, as its pretty difficult to find good tanks nowadays. I always look forward to running with tanks, so long as there's a max of one per party.

[Jexetta]

It will never be balanced / fixed - you're better off just making a rogue. Next double experience weekend just level up a rogue and call it a day. For senior members of the community who have been playing for so long I admire the faith in balancing, but it's just not going to happen.

[Ipoopsy]

Solution: Buff all elite maps, so tanks are needed. Or jsut remove the class.

It's better to limit the amount of revived in Elite and you will see the game is more balance for PVE.

[Serancha]

Tanks won't die easily on the last boss! :) Some sort of ankh-restriction would foster more tanks to participate in runs. However, it is not necessary for them to be completely removed, as farming efficiency becomes another matter. Maybe its time to implement a revive skill for wars? XD

My point is that since arena favours rogues due to bosses, why not have maps that include only mobs (for mages), and hard hitting enemies (for tanks)? Also, tanks should be revised in pve, which the devs are already working on.

Actually if you read the previous posts, you'd understand that we are more likely to die with a tank than we are without. That means the ankh restriction would just make it worse.

[Eldorado]

It will never be balanced / fixed - you're better off just making a rogue. Next double experience weekend just level up a rogue and call it a day. For senior members of the community who have been playing for so long I admire the faith in balancing, but it's just not going to happen.

Yes, that what I'd done because nothing will be balanced / fixed.

[Powergear546]

We warriors need enraged as a skill lol which will increase out damage,hp,dps and armour(mana remains same) output for about 1.5 times the current just for 6-8 seconds

[Ipoopsy]

Actually if you read the previous posts, you'd understand that we are more likely to die with a tank than we are without. That means the ankh restriction would just make it worse.

Then you must have grouped with a noob tank that doesn't know how to play his class well. (A noob is a noob, doesn't matter what class they play)

You must be bias, because you probably just like to run an elite maps that really requires no skills at all with the help of constant revives/ankhs without any risk at all.

I do understand, running with a grp of all rogues seems fasters in elite maps with constant revived. But be openminded for one sec, with limited revived, i can guaranteed, you that most rog groups will die more and takes a little longer to finished an elite map.

And i do stressed MOST ROGUES GROUP. There is always exceptions to everything.

[debitmandiri]

I have crazy solution :

Increase pots price : from 1.35k/100 to 50k/100, mana pots 25k/100

O.O

[Excuses]

One thing you guys are missing is...
Having boss dmg higher means more 1 hit death from boss. When most of tanks can't take the dmg from boss and die too, there is no reason for taunt and tank to exist.
Simply making the maps harder will not be the solution unless there will be perfect tools to deal with the bosses.

The problem right now are that
1.warriors get 1 hit from boss too unless they get maxed armor/hp build,
2. Lose aggro for no reason sometimes so boss kills pt,
3. and make the runs significantly slow.

So warrior need better skill upgrade, such as
1. cancel boss wind up in cs, (this will be a must if boss will be harder. Simply doing feeble is not enough now. )
2. armor reducion in jugg or/and team buff in vg. (so warriors won't slow the runs. As I have said in many other thread, I like to see jugg buff than vg because vg has too small range to buff pt and has no taunt. )
3. And better taunt ability. (to minimize random pt daeth)


I used to be able to take all dmg from bosses when I have 2900 armor/8k hp. But how many players will have that stat to play? Now I have 2500armor/2700hp and still get 1 hit death from some bosses when crit. Even without crit I get 5-10% hp left. Just making bosses and map harder will not be a solution when tanks are struggling to survive too.

[Bmwmsix]

This topic is nearly antique was brought very often and nearly 2 years ago.

Many nice peeps quit because the developers/owners of this game don't give a **** :).

There are soo many great games out there.

[Kriticality]

Couple things. Making tanks on par with rogues for fighting bosses will break the game. That's not balance. Some of the issue here is simply the fact that this event is arena.

Secondly, it seems that a lot of these discussions about rogues are about the maxed out rogues. Legendary rogues may or may not do full rogue parties. Seems unlikely but maybe so. Moving on to maxed out rogues, we usually run with 1-3 nekros and usually at least one sns. Aside from the mandatory breaks in nekro aa, we run with 40% damage reduction from nekro shield. IMO, if someone has figured out how to pay 100-200m for a toon, they should prob not be restricted. In my runs with a tank, they die as much or more than rogues bc they stay close to the arena bosses. Limiting revives, in many cases, would send the tank outside the fence before the rogues. The key to arena is really just running with friends. Our guild is super small and we've had numerous recipes and a fossil looted by our tanks. They've been able to log hundreds of runs.

[Ipoopsy]

One thing you guys are missing is...
Having boss dmg higher means more 1 hit death from boss. When most of tanks can't take the dmg from boss and die too, there is no reason for taunt and tank to exist.
Simply making the maps harder will not be the solution unless there will be perfect tools to deal with the bosses.

The problem right now are that
1.warriors get 1 hit from boss too unless they get maxed armor/hp build,
2. Lose aggro for no reason sometimes so boss kills pt,
3. and make the runs significantly slow.

So warrior need better skill upgrade, such as
1. cancel boss wind up in cs, (this will be a must if boss will be harder. Simply doing feeble is not enough now. )
2. armor reducion in jugg or/and team buff in vg. (so warriors won't slow the runs. As I have said in many other thread, I like to see jugg buff than vg because vg has too small range to buff pt and has no taunt. )
3. And better taunt ability. (to minimize random pt daeth)


I used to be able to take all dmg from bosses when I have 2900 armor/8k hp. But how many players will have that stat to play? Now I have 2500armor/2700hp and still get 1 hit death from some bosses when crit. Even without crit I get 5-10% hp left. Just making bosses and map harder will not be a solution when tanks are struggling to survive too.

These are great ideas that we all heard before, BUT it still wouldn't change much, because you can still create an ALL ROG group that can still constantly revived after every death. (example....ARENA)

[Excuses]

These are great ideas that we all heard before, BUT it still wouldn't change much, because you can still create an ALL ROG group that can still constantly revived after every death. (example....ARENA)
But at least, tanks will get pt. Not abandoned.
People don't want to have warrior in pt because they slow down the runs. So tanks need more armor reducion buff or pt buff.

Making map harder won't stop 4 rogues pt when they can use ankh and tank die with them too.
We need more fundamental solution for tanks to make them more useful in pve.
That's my point.


One thing dps pt hate is when all pt dies together and reset the boss. If boss should be stronger so dps can't survive without a tank, tank should be able to do something because tank won't be able to bear the dmg too. That's cs upgrade, cancel boss wind up attack.

Honestly rogue has too much hp/armor comparing their dmg. But I don't want to say 'take it away' but rather say 'buff tanks to be useful'

[Ssneakykills]

New solution -

Let warriors equip dex gear

I'd love to see a warrior with a elo bow

[Valkiryas]

Actually I'm inviting warriors at my party(s), Why?

Cause everyone should play at this game, let's keep this game friendly and let's show some love to our friend tanks and smurfs :)

[GoodSyntax]

The point here is that if you look at the roles of the three classes, you see Rogue = fast single target kills, Sorcerers = Crowd control and DoT, Warriors = tanks/healers? Two of these classes have obvious benefits in a PvE environment, while one honestly cannot contribute as much. Sure, a really skilled tank will make runs easier for you, but they rarely make runs faster. This game has evolved to the point where time = money, so the more time you spend on a map, the less money you make, or the more money you need to spend. There is no extra reward for efficiency or team dynamics, so what ends up happening is whatever party type is fastest becomes the most desirable.

Here is my rating system on the three classes in the ten primary areas of PvE that I find important

Single Target Damage: How well you can damage a single mob/boss
Group Damage: How well you can inflict damage on a group of mobs at once
Aggro Control: How well you can generate and maintain aggro
Target Control: How well can you control a single mob
Group Control: How well can you control a pack of mobs
Player Buff: How potent your self-buff abilities are
Party Buff: How potent your party buffs are
Target Debuff: How effective your single-target debuffs are
Group Debuff: How effective your group debuffs are
Damage Control: How well you can absorb or better yet, avoid receiving damage


ROGUES:
Rogues are the undisputed single-target killing machines in the game. This class has extremely effective target debuffs and player buffs, coupled with the highest single target damage is the reason why Rogues are efficient killing machines. Rogues, while not very good at mob control do have the ability to avoid some of the damage and possess enough Armor/HP to pot through the damage that they do receive. Unfortunately, without any shielding capabilities, do die more than average.

Single Target Damage: Best. Without question, the best class in the game!
Group Damage: Average. Nox poison, bleed from Traps and Razor all doing AoE damage.
Aggro Control: Above Average. Rogues can generate a lot of aggro, especially in blender builds with Razor, Traps and Daggers. The high damage and high DPS can pull aggro at any time it seems.
Target Control: Terrible. No single target control mechanism.
Group Control: Below Average. Effective, but unreliable group control with traps that pull.
Player Buff: Best. One of the most effective self-buffing mechanism in game! Crit stacking plus 250% damage on crit from Aimed Shot is the reason why Rogues are the best single target killers.
Party Buff: Above Average. Shadow Veil (when properly upgraded) is a powerful party buff.
Target Debuff: Best. Aimed Shot, with it's armor debuff, is powerful and scales well to endgame.
Group Debuff: Average. Shadow veil does offer some hit % debuff, and bleed does stack, which is why Trap builds are becoming more popular.
Damage Control: Average. Above average armor and HP, along with very good Dodge all contribute.


SORCERERS:
Sorcerers are masters of crowd control, AoE damage and DoT. This class does not offer much in the way of buffs/debuffs, but, in the proper hands, can effectively keep many mobs in a permanent root/stun/freeze/knock-down cycle, which helps with survivability. Unfortunately, being a low armor/low dodge class, hits tend to do more damage than expected, but, this is somewhat offset by a very powerful shield. In my opinion, a shield is too much of a compromise, since it reduces your total skill damage output by 25%, so the best elite runners I know run without the shield.

Single Target Damage: Average. Lightning being the most potent attack, but single target isn't the primary role of the class.
Group Damage: Best. Clock and Fire are the bread-and-butter of the class and these two skills in particular have a large area of effect.
Aggro Control: Average. For whatever reason, Sorcs tend to generate a lot of aggro, likely from the continuous DoT.
Target Control: Best. Ice is the best single target control ability in game.
Group Control: Best. With large AoE skills and lots of stun/root/knockdowns, Sorcs are the best class for crowd control.
Player Buff: Below Average. Gale (with its Armor and Speed upgrades) is probably the only player buff I can think of.
Party Buff: Terrible. No party buff that I can think of (unless you consider Heal a party buff).
Target Debuff: Below Average. None of the skill upgrades are worthwhile except for Curse.
Group Debuff: Below Average. None of the skill upgrades are worthwhile except for Curse.
Damage Control: Below Average. Many builds have high HP coupled with Shield and/or Gale. Generally, without Shield or Gale, Sorcs rely on high-ish HP, but the low armor leads to a lot of one hit deaths.


WARRIORS:
Warriors primary role of tanking is reflected in their skills; they are terrific aggro controllers, and have great survivability, but their ability to deal damage and debuff in any appreciable way is simply not there.

Single Target Damage: Terrible. Even though some tanks have extremely high DMG, the skill damage is very weak.
Group Damage: Average. Windmill and Smash are AoE type attacks, and with the primary role of Warriors as a tanker, these two skills can do reasonable damage.
Aggro Control: Best. This class has taunt upgrades on most skills.
Target Control: Below Average. The only real single target control skill is Axe Throw, and even that has limited usefulness.
Group Control: Terrible. Tanks excel at grouping up mobs, not controlling them. Stuns from Smash are very unreliable.
Player Buff: Best. Juggernaut and VB are two of the best player buffs in game!
Party Buff: Average. Rally Cry (for those that actually use it) has a large radius and reasonably long active time.
Target Debuff: Average. Feebling is really the only target debuff available, which helps with the tanking role, but doesn't add to faster runs.
Group Debuff: Terrible. No group debuff skills.
Damage Control: Best. High HP, high armor means tanks are really tough to bring down in PvE. There are very few windup attacks in game that can one hit a properly geared tank.



So, looking at this analysis, it is clear that what is missing in the game is a potent group debuff ability. Rogues excel at single target buff/debuff/kills. Sorcerers excel at crowd control, AoE and DoT. Tanks excel at what? Being a punching bag? Let's make the Warrior class a Tank and Debuff juggernaut! Extend the benefit of VB to the entire party, add Feeble and some form of armor reduction skill upgrade to debuff groups of mobs! This will make tanks a desirable class to have in party as it not only helps with efficiency, but it also will not significantly increase run time!

[Ipoopsy]

But at least, tanks will get pt. Not abandoned.
People don't want to have warrior in pt because they slow down the runs. So tanks need more armor reducion buff or pt buff.

Making map harder won't stop 4 rogues pt when they can use ankh and tank die with them too.
We need more fundamental solution for tanks to make them more useful in pve.
That's my point.


One thing dps pt hate is when all pt dies together and reset the boss. If boss should be stronger so dps can't survive without a tank, tank should be able to do something because tank won't be able to bear the dmg too. That's cs upgrade, cancel boss wind up attack.

Honestly rogue has too much hp/armor comparing their dmg. But I don't want to say 'take it away' but rather say 'buff tanks to be useful'

I bascially agree with what you said lol. BUT it wont make that much of a differences if REVIVED/ANKH is still available to be use. (It needs to be limited to say maybe 1-3 revived/per Elite maps). Then and only then, will you have a group that will consists of wars or mages in group that will use teamwork to survived more instead of trying to do the fastest time in elite with really no risk at all if you can constantly revived.

EVEN if War gets skills upgrade, most rogs will still form rogue group to run elite maps as long as you can still REVIVED/Ankh in your run.

Like i said, i agree with you mostly, but it wont fixed the grouping much until that is change.

[Excuses]

I bascially agree with what you said lol. BUT it wont make that much of a differences if REVIVED/ANKH is still available to be use. (It needs to be limited to say maybe 1-3 revived/per Elite maps). Then and only then, will you have a group that will consists of wars or mages in group that will use teamwork to survived more instead of trying to do the fastest time in elite with really no risk at all if you can constantly revived.

EVEN if War gets skills upgrade, most rogs will still form rogue group to run elite maps as long as you can still REVIVED/Ankh in your run.

Like i said, i agree with you mostly, but it wont fixed the grouping much until that is change.

I don't care about 1% of rogues being 4 rogues pt and spend thier 10 times more money on ankhs to run 30 sec faster. (right now it's of course more than 30sec tho)
But those changes will help most of tanks to get more pt invites. If most of rogue think they need tanks and tanks are helping runs better, not slowing down and save ankh, I will be happy.
That's the point of this thread I believe.

[Ipoopsy]

I don't care about 1% of rogues being 4 rogues pt and spend thier 10 times more money on ankhs to run 30 sec faster. (right now it's of course more than 30sec tho)
But those changes will help most of tanks to get more pt invites. If most of rogue think they need tanks and tanks are helping runs better, not slowing down and save ankh, I will be happy.
That's the point of this thread I believe.

I guess you really don't understand my post.

Here let me put it in a way where hopefully you can understand.

1. Even if Tanks gets upgraded skills (Which i agree with you they should) (This will probably create and xtra 1-5% war is needed more). But that small % wont make that much of a difference. Most People who plays rogues still preferred to group with other rogues for faster runs.
----IMO: LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF REVIVED/ANKH being use: This will make any decent WAR/MAGE to be more desirable in group. This will pretty much stop All rogue groups because if they use up all their revived, running back to the boss takes time ....hence, WAR/Mage will be more desirable than they currently are.

2. When doing Elite maps with limited REVIVED/ANKH, it will also Retains the value of the LOOTS being drop by bosses (or future bosses). Then you will have constant farmers that are willing to run Elite more. As of now, most LOOTS are worthless in majority of Most Elite Maps, because its toooooooooooooooo easy to get with constant REVIVED/ANKH. This way, it will make the GAME REPLAYBILITY as a whole to last longer than it currently is at this moment in time, where everyone is bored to death because nothing is new or worth farming.

3. I knew those ANKH, when it was introduce will be a downfall for STS, because, yes in the short term, it will make them $$$ real fast, but it will destroy the game. If they limit Ankh, like i said in elite maps, it will preserved the longevity of the game and they still makes $$$ in the long run. Any business knows this, the longer the game last the more $$$ they make in the long run.

To Summerized, what i just said, Limit the Ankh/Revived usage in Elite Contents, will get more War / Mage in group. And at the same time, STS will make more $$$ in the long run.

[Excuses]

I guess you really don't understand my post.

Here let me put it in a way where hopefully you can understand.

1. Even if Tanks gets upgraded skills (Which i agree with you they should) (This will probably create and xtra 1-5% war is needed more). But that small % wont make that much of a difference. Most People who plays rogues still preferred to group with other rogues for faster runs.
----IMO: LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF REVIVED/ANKH being use: This will make any decent WAR/MAGE to be more desirable in group. This will pretty much stop All rogue groups because if they use up all their revived, running back to the boss takes time ....hence, WAR/Mage will be more desirable than they currently are.

2. When doing Elite maps with limited REVIVED/ANKH, it will also Retains the value of the LOOTS being drop by bosses (or future bosses). Then you will have constant farmers that are willing to run Elite more. As of now, most LOOTS are worthless in majority of Most Elite Maps, because its toooooooooooooooo easy to get with constant REVIVED/ANKH. This way, it will make the GAME REPLAYBILITY as a whole to last longer than it currently is at this moment in time, where everyone is bored to death because nothing is new or worth farming.

3. I knew those ANKH, when it was introduce will be a downfall for STS, because, yes in the short term, it will make them $$$ real fast, but it will destroy the game. If they limit Ankh, like i said in elite maps, it will preserved the longevity of the game and they still makes $$$ in the long run. Any business knows this, the longer the game last the more $$$ they make in the long run.

To Summerized, what i just said, Limit the Ankh/Revived usage in Elite Contents, will get more War / Mage in group. And at the same time, STS will make more $$$ in the long run.

I do understand what you are talking about.
You are the one misunderstanding mine.

I didn't say anything about what you said but actually just added details about what I said. I'm not trying to argue with you at all. I quoted your comments just because you quoted mine too and to make my point clear.
Maybe one point we don't agree is the result of warrior upgrade will make.

If I comment on your idea about ankh, I will say it's a bad idea for regular gear players. Only few % of players can run without dying so much like that. This will discourage most of player if it's impossible to finish elite runs.
And in fact, those 0.1% rogues don't spend bunch of ankh like you imagine in elite maps. They have sns and nekro.

My point is to make whole tanks and pve experience better, not exactly prevent dps to make pt with 4 rogues.
Like I said, I don't care if rogues still play with 4 rogues because it's faster. But the difference between 4 rogues and 1 tank + 3 rogues should smaller. Like I said, if they have to use 10 times more ankh to run 30 sec faster, it's their choice. But right now is they use almost same amount of ankh with half to double faster time.

So tank should have more debuff/buff t make the runs faster. And protect pt better to make the run easier. This is what I'm trying to say.
You said 'EVEN if War gets skills upgrade, most rogs will still form rogue group to run elite maps as long as you can still REVIVED/Ankh in your run'.
I understand few % will do. I'm speaking for the other 99.9 of players. Warrior upgrade will make most of people happier in pve.
Hope you understand my point.

[Kriticality]

The other issue with limiting the ankhs is that OP rogues don't die as much as Legendary tanks. I think Sera mentioned it earlier, I actually die more when a tank is in my party. Go figure. It's relatively common that I don't die in an arena with an OP rogue party and most of us are just on autopilot anyway. Maybe a death here and there, but generally not much.

[Excuses]

The other issue with limiting the ankhs is that OP rogues don't die as much as Legendary tanks. I think Sera mentioned it earlier, I actually die more when a tank is in my party. Go figure. It's relatively common that I don't die in an arena with an OP rogue party and most of us are just on autopilot anyway. Maybe a death here and there, but generally not much.

Exatly.
Rogues can taunt boss to each other.
Less running time means fewer chance to die.
Rogues don't have to move a lot like tank has to, resulting spawn too many mobs. (especially stahl in arena)
Proper timed nekro aa will prevent most of 1 hit kills.

People run with 4 rogues for reason.

[Kriticality]

Exatly.
Rogues can taunt boss to each other.
Less running time means fewer chance to die.
Rogues don't have to move a lot like tank has to, resulting spawn too many mobs. (especially stahl in arena)
Proper timed nekro aa will prevent most of 1 hit kills.

People run with 4 rogues for reason.

Also proximity curse presents inconveniences when it lands on a tank. He really has to just sit out bc he doesn't have many ranged skills and standing on the boss prevents rogues from piercing.

Of course this only happens in arena.

[Ardbeg]

The other issue with limiting the ankhs is that OP rogues don't die as much as Legendary tanks. I think Sera mentioned it earlier, I actually die more when a tank is in my party. Go figure. It's relatively common that I don't die in an arena with an OP rogue party and most of us are just on autopilot anyway. Maybe a death here and there, but generally not much.

the longer the run, the more chances to get onehitted, attacked by environment, ...
even the best tanks cannot take care of all threats. but all tanks prolonge the runs and add chances for this deaths to occur.

the new axe throw helped a lot with this by reducing the runtime (please give it a try, it really is a great buff!), but isn t sufficient alone.

[Excuses]

the longer the run, the more chances to get onehitted, attacked by environment, ...
even the best tanks cannot take care of all threats. but all tanks prolonge the runs and add chances for this deaths to occur.

the new axe throw helped a lot with this by reducing the runtime (please give it a try, it really is a great buff!), but isn t sufficient alone.

Exatly why I ask armor reducion on jugg.

[Newcomx]

Agree with Kalizzaa post... Each class should complement each other. IMO.. the class is balance when a party run faster map with 1 tank, 1 sorc, 2 rogue or 1 tank, 2 sorc, 1 rogue, with avarage gear.

[Ipoopsy]

Exatly.
Rogues can taunt boss to each other.
Less running time means fewer chance to die.
Rogues don't have to move a lot like tank has to, resulting spawn too many mobs. (especially stahl in arena)
Proper timed nekro aa will prevent most of 1 hit kills.

People run with 4 rogues for reason.

I don't understand why you always, said the exception. Look at the bigger picture. There will always be exception to everything.

Even with war upgrades, there will still be more rog groups, as long as ankh/revived is use up like water. Now if u limit that, then u will have more group. consist of war.
Now isn't that ur point is to have war in group?

[Ipoopsy]

Exatly.
Rogues can taunt boss to each other.
Less running time means fewer chance to die.
Rogues don't have to move a lot like tank has to, resulting spawn too many mobs. (especially stahl in arena)
Proper timed nekro aa will prevent most of 1 hit kills.

People run with 4 rogues for reason.

Btw, u contradict urself. Base on if and when war gets upgrade....read your own word from the quote above. 'People run with 4 rogues for a reason'

[Trojan2100]

Everyone go make a rogue , problem solved .

[kydrian]

Everyone go make a rogue , problem solved .
Then why is a warrior and mage class in the game.

[supersyan]

Give mage a skill ( can use curse) that increases warrior damage 200% or debuff mob armor by 35% ( PVE) only

[Excuses]

I don't understand why you always, said the exception. Look at the bigger picture. There will always be exception to everything.

Even with war upgrades, there will still be more rog groups, as long as ankh/revived is use up like water. Now if u limit that, then u will have more group. consist of war.
Now isn't that ur point is to have war in group?

I don't think 1 warrior + 1 mage + 2 rogue pt must be faster than 4 rogues. This should be ideal and the easiest, without making it too slow, might be faster too but It doesn't have to. I'm saying tank need buff so they should not slow down runs too much and get more invite for pt.
But rogue is still the best dmg dealers. 4 rogues might still make the best time in elite; this should cost huge amount of ankh and pots which will slow the run.

You need to see bigger picture, balance of all 3 classes and all players.
I'm talking for 99.9 of players not 0.1 of Op rogues who do timed run. Of course it will be awesome if they need a tank even for timed runs too. But we should not aim for them but think about all players for a change. I'm not asking for tank to be a rogue. But just want tank to be more useful to make the runs faster so people

And sorry to say but you ankh limit idea is just not great. I explained why, and some others did too.
Read it and try to understand please.


Btw, u contradict urself. Base on if and when war gets upgrade....read your own word from the quote above. 'People run with 4 rogues for a reason'

Yes. Running with 4 rogues has benefits atm. So people run with 4 rogues for reason.
So I'm asking tank buff to minimize the gap.
How does this contradict? Please understand what people say first before you write..

Sigh.

[Eldorado]

This will be nonstop. Just make a rogue and feel the OPness.

[mesalin]

True tank isn't useful much atm... I just have also rogue and mage 41 and if we dont need tank ... swich for rogue of mage this is sick cuz I love play with tank but if we can do elite wilds or arena without tank and this is faster...

[Eldorado]

Rogue legends :smiley_simmons:

[famousfame]

Simple.

Make rogues' HP lower than mages, let armor remain the same. When rogues have 5k HP and avoid 1 shots, that's when you know the game's screwed up.

I don't mean a nerf to a rogue's stats, that would severely cripple undergeared rogues. I mean, make the best gear focus more on damage and crit than on HP and armor. Rogues are the killing-machine-gun-enraged-inan'hesh class, we can't have them having so much HP now can we!
As a tank I struggle lots to get pt and seriously have given up on asking, issue here is not dps hp but crit and dmg, a 5k hp rouge will still get one shot by pretty much all bosses it's their insane crit aided by good movement and dmg that gets the job done best, tbh I can't see any way sts can resolve this issue without pissing off rouges and mages.

[Ipoopsy]

I don't think 1 warrior + 1 mage + 2 rogue pt must be faster than 4 rogues. This should be ideal and the easiest, without making it too slow, might be faster too but I'm must be. I'm saying tank need buff so they should not slow down runs too much and get more invite for pt.
But rogue is still the best dmg dealers. 4 rogues might still make the best time in elite; this should cost huge amount of ankh and pots which will slow the run.

You need to see bigger picture, balance of all 3 classes and all players.
I'm talking for 99.9 of players not 0.1 of Op rogues who do timed run. Of course it will be awesome with they need a tank even for timed runs too. But we should not aim for them but think about all players for a change. I'm not asking for tank to be a rogue. But just want tank to be more useful to make the runs faster so people

And sorry to say but you ankh limit idea is just not great. I explained why, and some others did too.
Read it and try to understand please.



Yes. Running with 4 rogues has benefits atm. So people run with 4 rogues for reason.
So I'm asking tank buff to minimize the gap.
How does this contradict? Please understand what people say first before you write..

Sigh.

Lol, you really have no clue what I'm talking about. English must be your second language. Enough, said, it's like explaining to a wall.

[Ssneakykills]

Everyone go make a rogue , problem solved .

You woudnt be saying that when rogue gear rises and you can't afford it because everyone is playing that class

[Newcomx]

I like the no potions solution Jexetta said in other thread. Definitely there will be at least 1 tank and 1 sorc in a party. This solution also make the ankh sale increasing, good for sts.

[Ipoopsy]

I like the no potions solution Jexetta said in other thread. Definitely there will be at least 1 tank and 1 sorc in a party. This solution also make the ankh sale increasing, good for sts.

Yes, that idea is also good.

[Jirikjurasek]

Lol, you really have no clue what I'm talking about. English must be your second language. Enough, said, it's like explaining to a wall.
Your solution:
Make limits on ankh reviwes

Actual situation (simply):
party without warrior - only few deaths
party with warrior - more deaths, the most dieing class is warrior, because warr can´t survive most of red zones (sometimes save rogue/mage means that you have to stand in red zone, so you have to die..)

Result of your solution:
Less warriors in party, which isn´t what we are trying to fight for here


I like the no potions solution Jexetta said in other thread. Definitely there will be at least 1 tank and 1 sorc in a party. This solution also make the ankh sale increasing, good for sts.

tank is the one who spend the most HP potions. No HP pots --> no tanks.

Its the same as I say: "no mana potions" --> rogues will be useless, mages and warrs will be happy

[Kriticality]

Lol with no potions rogues will just rock valkins, nekros and use packs.

[Ipoopsy]

Your solution:
Make limits on ankh reviwes

Actual situation (simply):
party without warrior - only few deaths
party with warrior - more deaths, the most dieing class is warrior, because warr can´t survive most of red zones (sometimes save rogue/mage means that you have to stand in red zone, so you have to die..)

Result of your solution:
Less warriors in party, which isn´t what we are trying to fight for here



tank is the one who spend the most HP potions. No HP pots --> no tanks.

Its the same as I say: "no mana potions" --> rogues will be useless, mages and warrs will be happy

Another person who doesn't know what the topic is. It's about war getting into groups. Read carefully before you answer.

[Jirikjurasek]

Another person who doesn't know what the topic is. It's about war getting into groups. Read carefully before you answer.

Exactly! But YOUR idea is absolutely bad and leads to even worse situation. My post was for you. I try to explain (in simply way) that your idea is not the solution

[Ipoopsy]

Exactly! But YOUR idea is absolutely bad and leads to even worse situation. My post was for you. I try to explain (in simply way) that your idea is not the solution

Reread all my posts. And if you still don't understand what I said. I recommend you to stay in school in learn the concept of the game and the way how business are run in the real world.

What I recommended, benefits the players and sts as a whole in the long run of the game.

[Erebos]

every body need rogues for arena like tanks r retaired from arena

[mesalin]

Yes if you play with tank well make another char I have rogue mage tank41 easy to get party if u play with 3 chars

[Ardbeg]

Reread all my posts. And if you still don't understand what I said. I recommend you to stay in school in learn the concept of the game and the way how business are run in the real world.


What I recommended, benefits the players and sts as a whole in the long run of the game.


i strongly disagree to your points and the way you conduct your arguments.
not everyone who points out flaws in your ideas has language problems or is otherwise incapable of understanding the concept.
there are experienced players here who try to give feedback so stg can locate and solve the problems.
bashing everyone for not praising your idea does not help your arguments and your credibility.


pots)
pots are the most important gold sink in this game.
they are an economic necessity to avoid inflation and won t go anywhere.
limiting pot usage in elite maps would cripple the game economy design.


ankhs)
limiting ankhs would only raise the entry gear level for elite party acceptance and create a very frustrating experience.
the class preference for parties would be still the same, as rogues can kite and share aggro effectively.

just one example arena, enraged: if your party is fast enough to kill before enraged, it s safe.
if not, limiting ankhs would most probably wipe the party and reset the boss.
this is certainly not an argument to have a tank in the party.

[mesalin]

Well I run arena with all of chars and I begin use more mage and rogue than war bcuz we fast enough and don't need tank atm

[Newcomx]

Your solution:
Make limits on ankh reviwes

Actual situation (simply):
party without warrior - only few deaths
party with warrior - more deaths, the most dieing class is warrior, because warr can´t survive most of red zones (sometimes save rogue/mage means that you have to stand in red zone, so you have to die..)

Result of your solution:
Less warriors in party, which isn´t what we are trying to fight for here



tank is the one who spend the most HP potions. No HP pots --> no tanks.

Its the same as I say: "no mana potions" --> rogues will be useless, mages and warrs will be happy

Rogues not useless IMO. The example you can see in the pvp room.

[Jirikjurasek]

Rogues not useless IMO. The example you can see in the pvp room.
Welcome in "No one wana party with tanks in elite and arena" thread :-)

[Ice]

The point here is that if you look at the roles of the three classes, you see Rogue = fast single target kills, Sorcerers = Crowd control and DoT, Warriors = tanks/healers? Two of these classes have obvious benefits in a PvE environment, while one honestly cannot contribute as much. Sure, a really skilled tank will make runs easier for you, but they rarely make runs faster. This game has evolved to the point where time = money, so the more time you spend on a map, the less money you make, or the more money you need to spend. There is no extra reward for efficiency or team dynamics, so what ends up happening is whatever party type is fastest becomes the most desirable.

Here is my rating system on the three classes in the ten primary areas of PvE that I find important

Single Target Damage: How well you can damage a single mob/boss
Group Damage: How well you can inflict damage on a group of mobs at once
Aggro Control: How well you can generate and maintain aggro
Target Control: How well can you control a single mob
Group Control: How well can you control a pack of mobs
Player Buff: How potent your self-buff abilities are
Party Buff: How potent your party buffs are
Target Debuff: How effective your single-target debuffs are
Group Debuff: How effective your group debuffs are
Damage Control: How well you can absorb or better yet, avoid receiving damage


ROGUES:
Rogues are the undisputed single-target killing machines in the game. This class has extremely effective target debuffs and player buffs, coupled with the highest single target damage is the reason why Rogues are efficient killing machines. Rogues, while not very good at mob control do have the ability to avoid some of the damage and possess enough Armor/HP to pot through the damage that they do receive. Unfortunately, without any shielding capabilities, do die more than average.

Single Target Damage: Best. Without question, the best class in the game!
Group Damage: Average. Nox poison, bleed from Traps and Razor all doing AoE damage.
Aggro Control: Above Average. Rogues can generate a lot of aggro, especially in blender builds with Razor, Traps and Daggers. The high damage and high DPS can pull aggro at any time it seems.
Target Control: Terrible. No single target control mechanism.
Group Control: Below Average. Effective, but unreliable group control with traps that pull.
Player Buff: Best. One of the most effective self-buffing mechanism in game! Crit stacking plus 250% damage on crit from Aimed Shot is the reason why Rogues are the best single target killers.
Party Buff: Above Average. Shadow Veil (when properly upgraded) is a powerful party buff.
Target Debuff: Best. Aimed Shot, with it's armor debuff, is powerful and scales well to endgame.
Group Debuff: Average. Shadow veil does offer some hit % debuff, and bleed does stack, which is why Trap builds are becoming more popular.
Damage Control: Average. Above average armor and HP, along with very good Dodge all contribute.


SORCERERS:
Sorcerers are masters of crowd control, AoE damage and DoT. This class does not offer much in the way of buffs/debuffs, but, in the proper hands, can effectively keep many mobs in a permanent root/stun/freeze/knock-down cycle, which helps with survivability. Unfortunately, being a low armor/low dodge class, hits tend to do more damage than expected, but, this is somewhat offset by a very powerful shield. In my opinion, a shield is too much of a compromise, since it reduces your total skill damage output by 25%, so the best elite runners I know run without the shield.

Single Target Damage: Average. Lightning being the most potent attack, but single target isn't the primary role of the class.
Group Damage: Best. Clock and Fire are the bread-and-butter of the class and these two skills in particular have a large area of effect.
Aggro Control: Average. For whatever reason, Sorcs tend to generate a lot of aggro, likely from the continuous DoT.
Target Control: Best. Ice is the best single target control ability in game.
Group Control: Best. With large AoE skills and lots of stun/root/knockdowns, Sorcs are the best class for crowd control.
Player Buff: Below Average. Gale (with its Armor and Speed upgrades) is probably the only player buff I can think of.
Party Buff: Terrible. No party buff that I can think of (unless you consider Heal a party buff).
Target Debuff: Below Average. None of the skill upgrades are worthwhile except for Curse.
Group Debuff: Below Average. None of the skill upgrades are worthwhile except for Curse.
Damage Control: Below Average. Many builds have high HP coupled with Shield and/or Gale. Generally, without Shield or Gale, Sorcs rely on high-ish HP, but the low armor leads to a lot of one hit deaths.


WARRIORS:
Warriors primary role of tanking is reflected in their skills; they are terrific aggro controllers, and have great survivability, but their ability to deal damage and debuff in any appreciable way is simply not there.

Single Target Damage: Terrible. Even though some tanks have extremely high DMG, the skill damage is very weak.
Group Damage: Average. Windmill and Smash are AoE type attacks, and with the primary role of Warriors as a tanker, these two skills can do reasonable damage.
Aggro Control: Best. This class has taunt upgrades on most skills.
Target Control: Below Average. The only real single target control skill is Axe Throw, and even that has limited usefulness.
Group Control: Terrible. Tanks excel at grouping up mobs, not controlling them. Stuns from Smash are very unreliable.
Player Buff: Best. Juggernaut and VB are two of the best player buffs in game!
Party Buff: Average. Rally Cry (for those that actually use it) has a large radius and reasonably long active time.
Target Debuff: Average. Feebling is really the only target debuff available, which helps with the tanking role, but doesn't add to faster runs.
Group Debuff: Terrible. No group debuff skills.
Damage Control: Best. High HP, high armor means tanks are really tough to bring down in PvE. There are very few windup attacks in game that can one hit a properly geared tank.



So, looking at this analysis, it is clear that what is missing in the game is a potent group debuff ability. Rogues excel at single target buff/debuff/kills. Sorcerers excel at crowd control, AoE and DoT. Tanks excel at what? Being a punching bag? Let's make the Warrior class a Tank and Debuff juggernaut! Extend the benefit of VB to the entire party, add Feeble and some form of armor reduction skill upgrade to debuff groups of mobs! This will make tanks a desirable class to have in party as it not only helps with efficiency, but it also will not significantly increase run time!


true tank should have a specialty.. maybe resurrection skills or debuff skills - armor to boss.. or maybe really tank now adays are useless in pve...

1.) rouge and mage both have healing skills. - so why need tank.
2.) rouge and mage have more damage - why need tank again.

Maybe if STS remove the healing skills on rouge and mage and make it like more focus kind of thing... rouge focus on damage.. mage focus on AOE , DoT and crowd control skills. Tanks focus on Tanking , support skills revive debuff , healing ect.

STS toon are all kind of hybrid lol.. very BS!

[Newcomx]

i strongly disagree to your points and the way you conduct your arguments.
not everyone who points out flaws in your ideas has language problems or is otherwise incapable of understanding the concept.
there are experienced players here who try to give feedback so stg can locate and solve the problems.
bashing everyone for not praising your idea does not help your arguments and your credibility.


pots)
pots are the most important gold sink in this game.
they are an economic necessity to avoid inflation and won t go anywhere.
limiting pot usage in elite maps would cripple the game economy design.


ankhs)
limiting ankhs would only raise the entry gear level for elite party acceptance and create a very frustrating experience.
the class preference for parties would be still the same, as rogues can kite and share aggro effectively.

just one example arena, enraged: if your party is fast enough to kill before enraged, it s safe.
if not, limiting ankhs would most probably wipe the party and reset the boss.
this is certainly not an argument to have a tank in the party.

Yes... I am also aware about the gold sink for buying potions. Maybe if entering dungeon map requiring some gold will be good and efficient also for gold sink.

[Newcomx]

Welcome in "No one wana party with tanks in elite and arena" thread :-)

What i mean is the no potions in pvp also can be implemented in pve (including elite and arena). No problem for rogues IMO.

[Eldorado]

Just make a rouge and play rouge legends.

132400

[Dex Scene]

true tank should have a specialty.. maybe resurrection skills or debuff skills - armor to boss.. or maybe really tank now adays are useless in pve...

1.) rouge and mage both have healing skills. - so why need tank.
2.) rouge and mage have more damage - why need tank again.

Maybe if STS remove the healing skills on rouge and mage and make it like more focus kind of thing... rouge focus on damage.. mage focus on AOE , DoT and crowd control skills. Tanks focus on Tanking , support skills revive debuff , healing ect.

STS toon are all kind of hybrid lol.. very BS!
How would mages and rogues do pvp then?
there are alot of good ideas to boost warriors in pve. We have to keep that in mind that, boosting warriors in pve shouldn't affect the pvp experience!

To my opinion, warriors should get some huge debuff skills and great agro holding skills.
Warriors' Taunt should be more effective than those dots which draws aggros.
Warriors should be able to agro even environments like mushrooms, pools.

A noticeable debuffs on every warrior skills would be great to have.
like Jug/veng/HoR having 50% armor debuff to the enemies which it taunts, and other attacking skills having like 20% armor debuff.

5th skill slot can be introduced and buff the rally cry skill as in,
i- giving 30% all stat bonus to caster and allies,
ii- debuff 30% all stats of enemies in pve only,
iii- speed boost to 30% for 6 secs
iv- stun freeze immunity for 6 secs and 20% chance to banish pve mobs.

Warriors will make great change in runs and will be desired to be in a party!

[Oursizes]

true tank should have a specialty.. maybe resurrection skills or debuff skills - armor to boss.. or maybe really tank now adays are useless in pve...

1.) rouge and mage both have healing skills. - so why need tank.
2.) rouge and mage have more damage - why need tank again.

Maybe if STS remove the healing skills on rouge and mage and make it like more focus kind of thing... rouge focus on damage.. mage focus on AOE , DoT and crowd control skills. Tanks focus on Tanking , support skills revive debuff , healing ect.

STS toon are all kind of hybrid lol.. very BS!

You make it sound as if most sane mages and rogues use heal in pve. We have something called potions now. You're probably just running with the wrong people. Again, karma/horror is mainly PvP guild is it not? (Correct me if in wrong but I remember seeing you in one of those guilds). That's the problem. PvP and pve 2 different things

[mesalin]

I'm agree dex bro

[GoodSyntax]

Another idea which I think would be useful is to make Taunt upgrades make the rest of the party untargetable for the duration of the taunt. This would apply in both PvE AND PvP!

This way, when a Warrior casts Jug or WM, even though a squishy is standing right next to the tank, the squishy will never get hit, even if they are standing in a red zone!

This would also have a very powerful benefit in PvP, since the current strategy is to take out the Rogues and Sorcs first, then deal with the tank. BUT, if the tank is taunting, and you cannot target the DPS classes (only the tank), then new strategies on how to deal with tanks in PvP will have to change. This would probably mean that stunning the tank with charged skills (or, god forbid, Kelvin) would be the first priority.

[inkredible]

Exactly why I made a Mage .. LOL thanks for this


I notice no one want to party with Tank and Elite runs.

So Tanks are only useful in PVP now, if no one want to farm with tank how will tanks get geared?
Also i notice a lot of great tanks made a rouge or mage account for farming.
What will happen if tanks will change class to rouge LOL...

STS need to balance this, Make sure in all runs they need a tanks! Double or triple the damage of elite bosses that only tanks survive in its Special skills or something. in this care they will need a tank so boss wont reset back to full HP.

[inkredible]

Just make a rouge and play rouge legends.

132400



I like to tank cuz tank makes u feel superior, I like protecting , not crossing my finger and hoping for luck.. Like rogue has a lot of luck base , gears, than skills. Just my opinion , I much enjoy tanking cuz of the adrenalin rush it gives me making sure my party survives , I like being depended on , and warrior is nothing now, so I made a Mage to kill rogues.

[Newcomx]

How would mages and rogues do pvp then?
there are alot of good ideas to boost warriors in pve. We have to keep that in mind that, boosting warriors in pve shouldn't affect the pvp experience!

To my opinion, warriors should get some huge debuff skills and great agro holding skills.
Warriors' Taunt should be more effective than those dots which draws aggros.
Warriors should be able to agro even environments like mushrooms, pools.

A noticeable debuffs on every warrior skills would be great to have.
like Jug/veng/HoR having 50% armor debuff to the enemies which it taunts, and other attacking skills having like 20% armor debuff.

5th skill slot can be introduced and buff the rally cry skill as in,
i- giving 30% all stat bonus to caster and allies,
ii- debuff 30% all stats of enemies in pve only,
iii- speed boost to 30% for 6 secs
iv- stun freeze immunity for 6 secs and 20% chance to banish pve mobs.

Warriors will make great change in runs and will be desired to be in a party!

This buff really make tank OP :D No need for rogue if warr get this buff

[Madnex]

The solutions have already been given.

1. Fix taunt.
2. Extend Vengeful Blood buffs to Party.
3. Include huge (that cover the whole room) single-hit red zones on bosses that cannot be avoided unless under HoR invulnerability.
3. Add in cross class combos (eg. Axe Throw + Aimed Shot + Skyward Smash = 40% armor reduction for 4 seconds).

[Excuses]

The solutions have already been given.

1. Fix taunt.
2. Extend Vengeful Blood buffs to Party.
3. Include huge (that cover the whole room) single-hit red zones on bosses that cannot be avoided unless under HoR invulnerability.
3. Add in cross class combos (eg. Axe Throw + Aimed Shot + Skyward Smash = 40% armor reduction for 4 seconds).

Good ideas. I'm not against the idea but just want to add some of my thoughts. Sorry for repeating my ideas.

1. This is obvious.
2. Vg will not be wide enough to cover/buff pt and it doesn't have taunt. Debuff on jugg sound more reasonable. And this way tank can help to clean mobs faster too.
3. When hor is on Cd, all pt including tank will die and reset boss. Cs cancel must come back. Or this will cause more use of kelvin only.
4. Axe throw(or/and jugg) + aim shot + time shift(or/and maybe fire) sound better for all classes. If mage skill gets some armor reducion too, all stack will make it more than 50% which will make the run the fastest with all 3 classes.

[Ice]

I like to tank cuz tank makes u feel superior, I like protecting , not crossing my finger and hoping for luck.. Like rogue has a lot of luck base , gears, than skills. Just my opinion , I much enjoy tanking cuz of the adrenalin rush it gives me making sure my party survives , I like being depended on , and warrior is nothing now, so I made a Mage to kill rogues.

So true.... now tank is noting lol..

[Bmwmsix]

The only thing to make this gamestudio understanding is to stop spending any cash.

[Franocazzzo]

Im a tank and personally I've ran 340 runs this arena event. I find a pt fairly easily. Tanks are actually very useful in elites because of one hits to rogues we can take the dmg and survive long enough for everyone respawns. But also as a tank you need to know how to run the map. I don't even have to ask people for a pt. right when I hope on I get a pt right away from max rogues. Try joining elite running guilds like; Deviant Misfits, Elite runners, Enigmatic, Elite Avengers, Turbo, Unified, and much more. Im not saying tanks shouldnt get buffed in pve because I still think that it would be better for us. But in pvp tanks are extremely op too(if you know how to use a tank) I see no need to make a rogue or mage for farming because all it takes is patience and a guild for running. I've been considering making a line group for people who can't contact anyone who wants to run elites. I'll make a post so you can all send me line requests and I'll make a group for party finding. Hopefully I can solve some of the problems.

[Franocazzzo]

Another idea which I think would be useful is to make Taunt upgrades make the rest of the party untargetable for the duration of the taunt. This would apply in both PvE AND PvP!

This way, when a Warrior casts Jug or WM, even though a squishy is standing right next to the tank, the squishy will never get hit, even if they are standing in a red zone!

This would also have a very powerful benefit in PvP, since the current strategy is to take out the Rogues and Sorcs first, then deal with the tank. BUT, if the tank is taunting, and you cannot target the DPS classes (only the tank), then new strategies on how to deal with tanks in PvP will have to change. This would probably mean that stunning the tank with charged skills (or, god forbid, Kelvin) would be the first priority.

This is a great idea +1

[Ice]

Just make a rouge and play rouge legends.

132400

a lot of our great karma tanks already change class... Bully / Overheard made a rouge now... same with Hell... maybe its time for me to join the rouges or mages.. :(

[mesalin]

True i made also rogue and mage41

[Magegrimm]

I still party with tanks...Of course I do not party with 3 but usually I go with 1 warrior 2 rogues. If the tank can do his job right I party him, if a tank can't do his job, he might as well quit...

I personally do not care if I take more time I am just doing for the fun

[PhoenixPrime]

Another idea which I think would be useful is to make Taunt upgrades make the rest of the party untargetable for the duration of the taunt. This would apply in both PvE AND PvP!


I love this idea. Would REALLY be nice to see this put into place (especially since my Fighter can't seem to hold aggro as much as I would like).

[VenomsChaos]

that comment still here.. hope is hope

As before said +1 to idea. warriors seels like they are unvabted players :/ maybe it will fixed at new cap MAYBE

[saphirae]

The only thing to make this gamestudio understanding is to stop spending any cash.

i hear you my friend :) i stopped spending cash and stopped playing untill tank and pvp issues done

[saphirae]

This topic is nearly antique was brought very often and nearly 2 years ago.

Many nice peeps quit because the developers/owners of this game don't give a **** :).

There are soo many great games out there.
bmw you know me and us there who stik together... but more and more we leaving game... dmn...most of us already quit totally cause of all this

[Pacmanx]

Lol I never had a problem finding a pt

[Bless]

Another idea which I think would be useful is to make Taunt upgrades make the rest of the party untargetable for the duration of the taunt. This would apply in both PvE AND PvP!

This way, when a Warrior casts Jug or WM, even though a squishy is standing right next to the tank, the squishy will never get hit, even if they are standing in a red zone!

This would also have a very powerful benefit in PvP, since the current strategy is to take out the Rogues and Sorcs first, then deal with the tank. BUT, if the tank is taunting, and you cannot target the DPS classes (only the tank), then new strategies on how to deal with tanks in PvP will have to change. This would probably mean that stunning the tank with charged skills (or, god forbid, Kelvin) would be the first priority. That is the whole meaning of taunt! I understand why this game has a weird 'taunt', because it auto targets the first person in range, but it needs to be changed.

[Bmwmsix]

dear nab. i didnt spent much. and look at me. im a fookin nonfactor. but still enjoying a game. well. kinda. my kdr is still better than 90% platinum buyers with arcane stuff. i laughing at em' when im secretly stalking their stats. so. log in. and we will have some fun. i hope. like old days.

Pne Nub its not abt kdr lol u missed the point :P. I hope you are now regularly online. Add me on Line id: Shakeittoo ✌��

PS: BTW grats for third comment :banana:

[Trojan2100]

Pne Nub its not abt kdr lol u missed the point :P. I hope you are now regularly online. Add me on Line id: Shakeittoo ✌��

PS: BTW grats for third comment :banana:

Lol you beat me to it , I was about to say what does KDR got to with anything

[Wild Crisis of Faith]

I actually need comment this.. i think there need be balance,i am warrior well my guild plays all that with me but before that think thwre is warrior who actually can cry and wai whole day for party...its ok u rogues are to OP for everything but still it need balance...i remember my tryin hit 2x chance arcane in infused chest was like 3-4 hrs standin in arena all come and left...than finally realistic rogues come "lilies" and mage "hangoo" and just ot me and b in there :/ whats next like u say warrior evolutioning in rogue nahhhh....pls sts make it harder somewhere :/

[dailyreward]

Tank are usefull is some elite maps

[Wild Crisis of Faith]

Tank are usefull is some elite maps

Yes but ppl mostly only care bout we need stron rogues ! :/

[Maunyabastian]

Yeah taunt is taunt. If a warrior taunts 8 mobs, they all should hit the warrior only. Even though the warrior only succeeded to hit 3 of the 8 mobs, the rest 5 still have to hit the warrior.
In PvP, tank's taunts shouldn't be a problem. If taunt works great in PvP, that'd be an imbalance because that is basically meant for MOBA games. IMO.

[Bmwmsix]

Tauntskills still need upgrades!

[Trojan2100]

Depends on your gear and strategy. Even if you have a tank if under geared, then you will die. Fully geared will always run the dungeon as fast as possible and really will not require a tank because of ankhs. The faster the run the more loots and who do not want that? Yes it consumes more but also produce a lot more. Who needs a protector if it will just slow them down.

I agree . Most war are wanna be dps not tank spec , #2 even with tank spec they have terrible aggro skill #3 they hide behind other class anyways . Whoever made this thread needs to go with the flow and do what everyone else does make more toons

[Ollashed]

I did tomb 3 with my tank and a friend who is tank too duo :) 13min
Tanks r not that useless in elite
Tanks slows the runs,but the runs r more safer and not many deaths f,e.

Gesendet von meinem LG-P760 mit Tapatalk

[Bmwmsix]

Tanks smell bad that's why ;_)

[UnnamedGuy]

Mages and rogues has enough hp and armor to make warriors useless because they slow runs...and with that new mage healgiver buff it is much more insane! But as even normal Ren'Gol maps are not easy, tanks will maybe come back in partys when new elites comes!
Even if I am not playing any warrior, i hope they will be as helpful as before soon!

Kilian.

[nightmaresmoke]

Id still pt with wars i prefer them over mages who dont heal pts mana always but tanks has and will always protect pt with theyre ever useful shield of love haha, in elites wars are beast what class can go face to face with all the crazy bosses old season or new obviously wars and what the rogues and mages do? run around like a si (leave that to ure imagination) lol staying away as possible to avoid being targeted by killer bosses who has insane 1ko ratio lately, arena side id still pt wars who cares for long timed runs? if ure insured that the war is with bosses taunting it like crazy. The only reason most peepz wont pt with wars is the 1hit bosses specially the planar tombs one wars is supposed to survive 1hits but now sts introducing bs bosses 1hits and the lame ankhs, the real reason is tadda!! the ankhs it has destroyed elite runs everyone was too dependant with it a player will say who needs wars if u got ankhs? Soo its not the wars fault its those bs bosses and lame ankhs..

[Motherless_Child]

Everything U said is SPOT on......

The same reason why I left guilds... Can't get parties to complete elite maps, tombs, arena, ETC. no point in being there (especially when guildies are always trying to sell U stuff for more or the same price as it is in auction, AND when the guild GM doesn't have WORTHY rewards for certain guild events/competitions)...

You are also spot on when you say many don't want tanks because they get one hitted N E ways... Some maps I go to with well geared tanks with reputable stats still drop like flies... I too personally don't mind running with tanks (the ones that KNOW what they are doing), but for certain maps 2 or more is just TOO slow... The idea is to GET in and GET out of maps!!! Time is money!!!

[CheifR]

Why don't just add bonuses to skills that improve everyone's pve experience while doin that "this does not apply in PvP" thing again since ik a big problem has been sts buffing warriors in both and as a result making the PvP aspect unbalanced aswell. Unavoidably large groups of mobs (but not IMPOSSIBLY overwhelming) within small spaces and following that with improving their taunt skills alot more might make people reconsider. Although I must say the lower tier Elites and even the Arena it's kinda inevitable that the class the specializes in killing one specific target would come together to kill that one target.

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Oursizes]

Seems like quite a few comments have been delete from this thread with no response from a dev/mod. Not a big surprise.