The Lifecycle..

[Hoardseeker]

So,I noticed everyone Fighting over Buffing other's HP/Mana In Fights,Read this if you use LifeGiver, Here is the Life Cycle,

Mage and a Warrior

Mage Gives Mana = Warrior Uses HoR = Mage can Survive without Pots

Mage does not gives Mana = Warrior Can not use HoR = Mage MAY die

Mage and Rogue

Mage Gives mana = Rogue spawns HP packs = Mage can also Pick it (OR) Rogue can Kill Boss Faster

Mage Does not Give mana = Rogue does not spawn HP Packs = Rogue Dies (OR) Killing Boss takes More Time!(Seriously,you ask a rogue to burn 100Mana Pots who is Helping you in a Party?)

Rogue and Warrior
WE NEED MAGE! <----- Absolutely True

Remember ! Life Giver Plays a Major Role in PvE and PvP,if you use Life Giver and when someone asks for Mana just Give them Mana as it gives Extra Mana for you too!

[Appeltjes]

So,I noticed everyone Fighting over Buffing other's HP/Mana In Fights,Read this if you use LifeGiver, Here is the Life Cycle,

Mage and a Warrior

Mage Gives Mana = Warrior Uses HoR = Mage can Survive without Pots

Mage does not gives Mana = Warrior Can not use HoR = Mage MAY die

Mage and Rogue

Mage Gives mana = Rogue spawns HP packs = Mage can also Pick it (OR) Rogue can Kill Boss Faster

Mage Does not Give mana = Rogue does not spawn HP Packs = Rogue Dies (OR) Killing Boss takes More Time!(Seriously,you ask a rogue to burn 100Mana Pots who is Helping you in a Party?)

Rogue and Warrior
WE NEED MAGE! <----- Absolutely True

Remember ! Life Giver Plays a Major Role in PvE and PvP,if you use Life Giver and when someone asks for Mana just Give them Mana as it gives Extra Mana for you too!

Warrior vb.

[CheifR]

So,I noticed everyone Fighting over Buffing other's HP/Mana In Fights,Read this if you use LifeGiver, Here is the Life Cycle,

Mage and a Warrior

Mage Gives Mana = Warrior Uses HoR = Mage can Survive without Pots

Mage does not gives Mana = Warrior Can not use HoR = Mage MAY die

Mage and Rogue

Mage Gives mana = Rogue spawns HP packs = Mage can also Pick it (OR) Rogue can Kill Boss Faster

Mage Does not Give mana = Rogue does not spawn HP Packs = Rogue Dies (OR) Killing Boss takes More Time!(Seriously,you ask a rogue to burn 100Mana Pots who is Helping you in a Party?)

Rogue and Warrior
WE NEED MAGE! <----- Absolutely True

Remember ! Life Giver Plays a Major Role in PvE and PvP,if you use Life Giver and when someone asks for Mana just Give them Mana as it gives Extra Mana for you too!
Pots are a thing.

Useless in any non pvp zone plus warriors have vb

[ClumsyCactus]

Rogues already spam pots, and by thr time they finish saying "mana" they could be full on mana by pressing pots.

[Hoardseeker]

Pots are a thing.

Useless in any non pvp zone plus warriors have vb

Go as A Rogue,I bet you are not a Rogue

[CheifR]

Go as A Rogue,I bet you are not a Rogue
My main character is a rogue...

[Hoardseeker]

Warrior vb.
do you think everyone uses it?


Rogues already spam pots, and by thr time they finish saying "mana" they could be full on mana by pressing pots.

to fill mana bar fully ,you need to use 3Pots,Mostly Rogues can use 6-8Skills with full bar


My main character is a rogue...
then you know how much pots rogues use and you say LifeGiver useless? Don't make me rude


Agree with me or not..its the lifecycle

[Magegrimm]

Rogues...to pot is a freaking nightmare but anyway I agree Lifegiver is important, I never actually thought it was. I use it for different occasions like this:
When I'm in a party with 2 rogues and a tank I use it... when I'm with 2 rogues and a mage and the other mage doesn't have lifegiver or doesn't use it, I use.
When there's 2 mages and a rogue/tank I use life giver if others don't have. So basically I use it whenever I have a party without a mage or a party with a mage without lifegiver.
------------------------------
Event though both classes need mage they usually just pot even if it costs a lot, we can always heal them and give them mana but by the time we do it they already pot, that's why I thought it was useless but since I party with guild members and friends they all know that I have lifegiver so I can save them some money

[Appeltjes]

do you think everyone uses it?



to fill mana bar fully ,you need to use 3Pots,Mostly Rogues can use 6-8Skills with full bar


then you know how much pots rogues use and you say LifeGiver useless? Don't make me rude


Agree with me or not..its the lifecycle

Every experienced tank uses vb

[Hoardseeker]

Every experienced tank uses vb

Mostly if you run Random maps,Warriors do not use that.

Agree with me or not,its the Lifecycle.

[Kingofninjas]

This thread gave me a good laugh. Any mage who uses heal in anything harder than elite dead city is not a mage I would run with again period. It is much faster to spend the pots that rely on mages for mana. They are better off with an extra damaging skill.

[Arachnophobik]

I love lifegiver on pvp :) i think mages that know to support mana loss on pvp is great :) and mages/rogues that treat horn heal as a bonus are very gpod players :) in pve tho, id rather be the tank, and have mages do crowd control, having stunned/slowed enemies makes it easier for me to support my team

[Aerodude]

I wouldn't mind mages using heal in maps dead city below but in kraken and up no no no way we need way more mob control skills and I'm a mage who doesn't and never uses heal in any elite cause I can pot and when others say mama I just say the pots were created for a reason so sometimes when I solo its either fire ice light shift or fire ice shift shield

[jorpox]

Totally disagree with this.

[Jirikjurasek]

So,I noticed everyone Fighting over Buffing other's HP/Mana In Fights,Read this if you use LifeGiver, Here is the Life Cycle,

Mage and a Warrior

Mage Gives Mana = Mage dont freeze/stun mobs = Warrior Uses HoR in bad time = Mage DIE

Mage does not gives Mana = Warrior Can use HoR in proper time = Mage SURVIVE

Mage and Rogue

Mage Gives mana = Rogue spawns HP packs = Rogue sacrifice attack skill on heal = longer boss fight = more pots&ankhs = Rogue CAN´T Kill Boss Faster

Mage Does not Give mana = Rogue does not spawn HP Packs = Rogue KILL bos FASTER because using another attack skill instead of heal packs

(Seriously,you ask a rogue to burn 100Mana Pots who is Helping you in a Party? Yes, I as warr burn more health potions, so why not)

Rogue and Warrior
WE NEED MAGE WITHOUT HEAL IN ENDGAME ELITES! <----- Absolutely True


I just edit text and color distribution a bit

[Wutzgood]

Mages heal in pve is worthless and hurts the party more than helps. You are much better off with an extra attack.

If a rogue can't afford pots then use Jack for mana. Mana begging is just as bad or worse than the gold beggars in town. They just make me laugh.

[Madnex]

Would be tons of fun to make maps without HP potions to force some party balance. Right now a big part of the issue is the ability of the DPS to spam healing potions.

[-no]

You can crowd control, and still use lifegiver.

I have saved many, many people with a correct timed heal. You cant always keep up the pot spamming vs damage intake.

Heal, no heal, either build is fine. Neither is bad, just different. Personally, all classes should unlock more skills, and adapt to the party/map.

[Tatman]

I guess this is a joke. Heal is a useless skill in pve.

[debitmandiri]

As long pots are available, my opinion, lifegiver in pve is totaly useless (endgame). Reason :
1. Lost 1 slot skill, u can swap it with offensive one
2. Elite mobs hit hard, no chance u will be able to survive from using lifegiver only (2-3 hit u dead)

Same goes to rogue with medic pack in elite maps.

[cami]

lol

133379

[Edward Coug]

Would be tons of fun to make maps without HP potions to force some party balance. Right now a big part of the issue is the ability of the DPS to spam healing potions.

That would be awful. Pots are wonderful. If they get changed, the game will suffer.

[PhoenixPrime]

As long pots are available, my opinion, lifegiver in pve is totaly useless (endgame). Reason :
1. Lost 1 slot skill, u can swap it with offensive one
2. Elite mobs hit hard, no chance u will be able to survive from using lifegiver only (2-3 hit u dead)

Same goes to rogue with medic pack in elite maps.

Have to agree, my Rogue has never used medic pack, and my Mage has never used heal.
My mage is set up with 4 attack spells (with the stun options) since I normally play solo.
Just makes more sense to dish out damage and use potions for healing, has worked fine for me so far.

I've also been lucky enough to 'not' have ended up in parties with mana beggars, 8^).

[Haligali]

Very nice, I remember 2 year ago I was farmin elite jarl without potions but that time has been passed.. If you try to run nowadays without pots, you just spend more time on maps and you waste your gaming time. If you rely on pots, I suggest to change your gameplay.

[CheifR]

do you think everyone uses it?



to fill mana bar fully ,you need to use 3Pots,Mostly Rogues can use 6-8Skills with full bar


then you know how much pots rogues use and you say LifeGiver useless? Don't make me rude


Agree with me or not..its the lifecycle
The time they spend typing could be used dealing more damage. The skill slot you waste on heal only allows for 2dmg dealing skills which in most parties would make u useless when it comes to killing.
Party will end up using more hp/mana pots killing the mobs that you're hardly contributing to.

What I'm getting from this is "only use for randoms"

[mmaachilles211]

Go as A Rogue,I bet you are not a Rogue

Unless it's pvp or ur a mage just coming up in a game lifegiver is stupid to have. If you can't afford pots don't run higher elites where you're really expected to take damage and drain mana. BTW I play as both mage and rogue in end game

[Ipoopsy]

So,I noticed everyone Fighting over Buffing other's HP/Mana In Fights,Read this if you use LifeGiver, Here is the Life Cycle,

Mage and a Warrior

Mage Gives Mana = Warrior Uses HoR = Mage can Survive without Pots

Mage does not gives Mana = Warrior Can not use HoR = Mage MAY die

Mage and Rogue

Mage Gives mana = Rogue spawns HP packs = Mage can also Pick it (OR) Rogue can Kill Boss Faster

Mage Does not Give mana = Rogue does not spawn HP Packs = Rogue Dies (OR) Killing Boss takes More Time!(Seriously,you ask a rogue to burn 100Mana Pots who is Helping you in a Party?)

Rogue and Warrior
WE NEED MAGE! <----- Absolutely True

Remember ! Life Giver Plays a Major Role in PvE and PvP,if you use Life Giver and when someone asks for Mana just Give them Mana as it gives Extra Mana for you too!

I do agree with you, 100%.

Only great mages uses lifegiver. And the rest that don't. Are mostly just average to below average mages.

Just remember one thing...Dead players means they deal ZERO DAMAGE. I repeat ZERO DAMAGE.

Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what? LIFEGIVER just safe your life by giving u that xtra 1-2 sec that you need to pot. Even if you use ankh to revived, it's still wasted time that you could have been attacking more if a mage uses LIFEGIVER.

And the majority of most people who does use pot, guess what again? That means they are attacking less if they pot (while running away from boss and try to pot and hopefully they pot in time, while they not attacking). Most players can't multitasked well.

And for the people who can MULTI-TASK, most likely they probably play on a computer, that's why they have all those hotkeys set. (Don't get me wrong, i do pot, but with a mage who uses LIFEGIVER it's a bonus.

Like i said, it's a bonus in an ELITE RUN if a Mage uses LIFEGIVER, doesn't matter if it's PVE or PVP. ALL Those things are the results of TEAMWORK.

[Ardbeg]

lifegiver draws aggro more efficiently then every warrior taunt. i would rather have the mage in my party using another attack with stun chance instead to buy us more time then watch him commit suicide by using lifegiver in hard elites.

[Edward Coug]

I do agree with you, 100%.

Only great mages uses lifegiver. And the rest that don't. Are mostly just average to below average mages.

Just remember one thing...Dead players means they deal ZERO DAMAGE. I repeat ZERO DAMAGE.

Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what? LIFEGIVER just safe your life by giving u that xtra 1-2 sec that you need to pot. Even if you use ankh to revived, it's still wasted time that you could have been attacking more if a mage uses LIFEGIVER.

And the majority of most people who does use pot, guess what again? That means they are attacking less if they pot (while running away from boss and try to pot and hopefully they pot in time, while they not attacking). Most players can't multitasked well.

And for the people who can MULTI-TASK, most likely they probably play on a computer, that's why they have all those hotkeys set. (Don't get me wrong, i do pot, but with a mage who uses LIFEGIVER it's a bonus.

Like i said, it's a bonus in an ELITE RUN if a Mage uses LIFEGIVER, doesn't matter if it's PVE or PVP. ALL Those things are the results of TEAMWORK.

Can't tell if you're being serious.

[Avaree]

And the majority of most people who does use pot, guess what again? That means they are attacking less if they pot (while running away from boss and try to pot and hopefully they pot in time, while they not attacking). Most players can't multitasked well.


^^Lol ^^
Skills do require a cool down, this allows for us pot users to spam away without missing an attack ....

[Ipoopsy]

^^Lol ^^
Skills do require a cool down, this allows for us pot users to spam away without missing an attack ....

If your dead, you can't pot. :P

[Ardbeg]

If your dead, you can't pot. :P

you left out the part where you explain how a mini heal combined with mage suicide is better for the party then a good additional stun/crowdcontrol chance.
rogues can fight from distance. tanks can exactly that: tank mobs. mages shouldn t draw aggro, but better invest in crowdcontrolling skills to keep the mobs from the rogues.

[ilhanna]

1. Lifegiver aggros. This means warrior has to HoR to save the healing mage who's drawing aggro just as lifegiver is on cooldown, not when HoR is truly crucial to save the whole party.
2. Lifegiver cools down like any other skill and in pve there is absolutely no way anyone in party can wait for mana replenishment. They spam pots anyway.
3. Some pets help give mana, some gear help support mana. While these aren't the greatest for elite, they do well enough for pot saving on easy farming.
4. What skill should a mage sacrifice if they want to slot in lifegiver? Fireball with its stun? Frost bolt with its great immobilizer for the highly dangerous mobs (Shuyal/Planar wolves, Tindirin shaman and komodos, etc)? Timeshift that roots whole batches of mobs? Lightning? Shield? It takes my mage three crowd control skills and shield to manage the mobs on harder elite maps. If at all possible I would love to have all skill slots mapped with crowd control and damage skills. Not lifegiver.
5. Warrior aggros mobs, mage stuns them, clocks them, rogue snipes and poisons them as a group, mage freezes highest risk enemies, warrior HoR to keep aggro and heal allies, mage keeps clocking and fireballing to give warrior time to pot while tanking and make the mobs melt faster with DoT <--- this is teamwork. Not reciprocal nursing

[Wutzgood]

If you can't pot efficiently and need a Mage to heal you it's better for any party if you stick to normal maps and never go to elites. That is a fact.

[Caabatric]

I remember my first time I ran with heal in elites the conversation went something like this:(elite tindrin wilds)
Build was fire, clock, Shield, heal

Player A: go
Player B: freeze the shamen mage
Me: sec let me switch build
change build to Ice, clock, shield, heal
i use heal cause im at low health
Player A: omg this NOOOB spec heal
Player B: IKR so NOOBY
Player C: Please dont use heal
Me:Then how am i supposed to live
Player A: POT YOU NOOOB
Player B: Im out (leaves map)
Player C: same (leaves map)
Player A: (leaves map)
Me: /g anyone know a good pve build

[eugene9707]

I do agree with you, 100%.

Only great mages uses lifegiver. And the rest that don't. Are mostly just average to below average mages.

Just remember one thing...Dead players means they deal ZERO DAMAGE. I repeat ZERO DAMAGE.

Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what? LIFEGIVER just safe your life by giving u that xtra 1-2 sec that you need to pot. Even if you use ankh to revived, it's still wasted time that you could have been attacking more if a mage uses LIFEGIVER.

And the majority of most people who does use pot, guess what again? That means they are attacking less if they pot (while running away from boss and try to pot and hopefully they pot in time, while they not attacking). Most players can't multitasked well.

And for the people who can MULTI-TASK, most likely they probably play on a computer, that's why they have all those hotkeys set. (Don't get me wrong, i do pot, but with a mage who uses LIFEGIVER it's a bonus.

Like i said, it's a bonus in an ELITE RUN if a Mage uses LIFEGIVER, doesn't matter if it's PVE or PVP. ALL Those things are the results of TEAMWORK.

Im sure lifegiver is slower to use because you have to charge it (to give mana)

what hotkey ? lol
just use "wsad" to move and use your mouse to attack, the potions are "q" and "e", which is extremely easy get to and you can pot while attacking

[Niixed]

This thread shows a clear delineation between newer players and experienced players. Newer players feel constrained by lack of resources and therefore more dependent on the the abilities of other players for assistance. Experienced players have more resources, but are constrained by time; they are less tolerant of inefficient playing styles. Newer players would rather spend the time and experienced players would rather spend the gold.

What's important is to understand that everyone has different limits and pressures they are managing the best way they can. Nobody should expect everyone to have the same needs. Nobody should disrespect a mage who doesn't want to use lifegiver and nobody should disrespect a rogue or warrior who doesn't want to use pots.

Know thyself!

[Ipoopsy]

you left out the part where you explain how a mini heal combined with mage suicide is better for the party then a good additional stun/crowdcontrol chance.
rogues can fight from distance. tanks can exactly that: tank mobs. mages shouldn t draw aggro, but better invest in crowdcontrolling skills to keep the mobs from the rogues.

Again like I said, with a good mage he know how to crowd control that. That's y I said most mags
are average or below average players.

[Ravager]

I usually have to scold guildmates who are running elite and have heal skill for mage.

Usually the teams I am running with, they constantly pot. Its a very bad idea to keep your hp below 100% because you raise the risk of getting 1 shot. When you're dead, you'll use plat or an ankh which I consider a bit more expensive than a few pots.

Dying slows down the run. Using a skill slot for lifegiver instead of another attack skill slows down the run. Slowing down the run raises the risk of more pot / ankh usage. People tend to get sleepy after x amount of runs or can only play for a certain amount of time. Best to spec without life giver and cram in 14 elite runs instead of 10.

[Caabatric]

Again like I said, with a good mage he know how to crowd control that. That's y I said most mags
are average or below average players.

just no
If there are 2 pt's both equally geared, skilled, and on the same map(planar tombs/arena/elite nordr,shuyal,tindrin) I will GUARANTEE the pt without heal will finish about 1-2 minutes faster than the pt with heal and spend about 20 more pots...

[Jirikjurasek]

Again like I said, with a good mage he know how to crowd control that. That's y I said most mags
are average or below average players.

Ipoopsy strikes back! :D:D
I really want to see you in elite with all your suggestions: Mage using heal, limited ankhs, no pot using...
I guess you have never been in elite nordr/shuyal/tindrin/tombs/arena
I always don´t know if you have big fun when you posting big crap or if your opinions are serious :stupid:

[Hoardseeker]

Ipoopsy strikes back! :D:D
I really want to see you in elite with all your suggestions: Mage using heal, limited ankhs, no pot using...
I guess you have never been in elite nordr/shuyal/tindrin/tombs/arena
I always don´t know if you have big fun when you posting big crap or if your opinions are serious :stupid:
Did he say about using No pots?

[Hoardseeker]

That would be awful. Pots are wonderful. If they get changed, the game will suffer.

Pots Ruin the Game ....

[Jirikjurasek]

Did he say about using No pots?
Sure, he obviously support almost all bad ideas

133438

[Dex Scene]

If your dead, you can't pot. :P
Run elites relying on your life giver.
then run same map relying on pots.
Let us know where you ended up dead.

[Hoardseeker]

Sure, he obviously support almost all bad ideas

133438
That's suggestion of removing Pots in Elites/Other harder Zones,He just supported to Remove pots in those Zones and he did not say that no using of pots when it is available

[Dex Scene]

Lifegiver draws aggros.
If a mage is struggling on hp and he uses heal, more mobs will be aggroed and Rest in peace mage.

Being a rogue I like mana gifts but I never rely on a mage for mana.
The cool down of a lifegiver is long enough to finish my mana bar 3-4 times already. I can't and never depend on a life giver. It will be terribly slow run if people start relying on eachothers heal mana gifts instead of pots.

[Dex Scene]

I do agree with you, 100%.

Only great mages uses lifegiver. And the rest that don't. Are mostly just average to below average mages.

Just remember one thing...Dead players means they deal ZERO DAMAGE. I repeat ZERO DAMAGE.

Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what? LIFEGIVER just safe your life by giving u that xtra 1-2 sec that you need to pot. Even if you use ankh to revived, it's still wasted time that you could have been attacking more if a mage uses LIFEGIVER.

And the majority of most people who does use pot, guess what again? That means they are attacking less if they pot (while running away from boss and try to pot and hopefully they pot in time, while they not attacking). Most players can't multitasked well.

And for the people who can MULTI-TASK, most likely they probably play on a computer, that's why they have all those hotkeys set. (Don't get me wrong, i do pot, but with a mage who uses LIFEGIVER it's a bonus.

Like i said, it's a bonus in an ELITE RUN if a Mage uses LIFEGIVER, doesn't matter if it's PVE or PVP. ALL Those things are the results of TEAMWORK.

And who do you think you are to call others just average to below average mage??

Exactly dead player means they deal zero damage. You won't have to repeat it. When you use lifegiver, you draw aggroo of all the mobs if you are really one of those GREATEST MAGES (as you said), you should know it.
And when you aggroed all the mobs and if your party don't save you, you are dead. ZERO DAMAGE as you said.
Warriors are there to take aggros. You little mage trying to be fatties, very bad idea.

"Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what?"
What does that mean? When and why you cant pot in time? Do your pot vanishes or finger gets an urgent scratching call?
anyway for us, we can always pot. I don't know why Greatest mages (as you said) can't.


"And the majority of most people who does use pot, guess what again? That means they are attacking less if they pot (while running away from boss and try to pot and hopefully they pot in time, while they not attacking). Most players can't multitasked well."

Huh what? Multitask? Are you serious? Are you okay? What are you talking about? People attack less while using pot?
Zzzzz.... nice jokes.

anyway, you talked all what have no logic. [People attack less while potting cuz people are not well at multitasking when they are not playing from computer... jeez whattha]

Heal or no heal its a personal choice. But lifegiver don't save you. It draws unwanted agros.
The mana you give through it, rogues don't depend on it.
Lifegiver cant fulfil the mana usage of rogues. Mages are better with another skill in pve.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Sorry, ridiculous.

Traditionally, one class has the healing skill (the support class) while others, if they did not have this class in the party, would have to rely on potions (which were often rare and expensive). Not so in AL. Pots are cheap. Besides, a mage without heal = a mage who does more damage faster = faster runs. Faster runs = greater efficiency.


This thread gave me a good laugh. Any mage who uses heal in anything harder than elite dead city is not a mage I would run with again period. It is much faster to spend the pots that rely on mages for mana. They are better off with an extra damaging skill.

;)

[Edward Coug]

Can we all agree that the only skill less useful in elites than Lifegiver is Shadow Storm Shot?

[Appeltjes]

Can we all agree that the only skill less useful in elites than Lifegiver is Shadow Storm Shot?

That's not a mage skill ._.

[Serancha]

I don't get the theory that a mage heal will "save your life by giving you time to pot"

I have been running elites since season 1, and not once have I encountered a situation where I could not pot "fast enough".

- If you are going to be one-hit, there is no saving you.

- If you are lagging, a single heal won't keep you alive.

- If you have a massive group of mobs and the mage heals, he's going to be dead, which then leaves 3 team members to handle the aggro - which means they will die.

- Refilling mana requires a full skill charge, which means if you're planning on saving others in mana pots, you are not only wasting a skill slot, you are also wasting 2-3 seconds every time you use the skill.

And guess what? Any end-gamer with any skill at all will have over 90% hp and mana most of the fight - so all this to recover maybe 100hp and 50mana for someone? Pointless.

- Anyone relying on a mage to keep them alive in elite will be dead before the first c/d is finished.

[Haligali]

That's not a mage skill ._.

curse, shield, gale force, lifegiver

pro build

[Jirikjurasek]

curse, shield, gale force, lifegiver

pro build
Its build for that "only great mages" :D

133445

[Eski]

curse, shield, gale force, lifegiver

pro build

i need to laugh at that ,seen that before :D

[ClumsyCactus]

And who do you think you are to call others just average to below average mage??

Exactly dead player means they deal zero damage. You won't have to repeat it. When you use lifegiver, you draw aggroo of all the mobs if you are really one of those GREATEST MAGES (as you said), you should know it.
And when you aggroed all the mobs and if your party don't save you, you are dead. ZERO DAMAGE as you said.
Warriors are there to take aggros. You little mage trying to be fatties, very bad idea.

"Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what?"
What does that mean? When and why you cant pot in time? Do your pot vanishes or finger gets an urgent scratching call?
anyway for us, we can always pot. I don't know why Greatest mages (as you said) can't.



Huh what? Multitask? Are you serious? Are you okay? What are you talking about? People attack less while using pot?
Zzzzz.... nice jokes.

anyway, you talked all what have no logic. [People attack less while potting cuz people are not well at multitasking when they are not playing from computer... jeez whattha]

Heal or no heal its a personal choice. But lifegiver don't save you. It draws unwanted agros.
The mana you give through it, rogues don't depend on it.
Lifegiver cant fulfil the mana usage of rogues. Mages are better with another skill in pve.

We must all bow down to the lord of the sass,dex scene, our saviour against the heal mages

[Haligali]

Its build for that "only great mages" :D

so my fart make rain clouds above the mobs

it is only effective with rally cry, i bet you didnt have that skill..

[Jirikjurasek]

so my fart make rain clouds above the mobs

it is only effective with rally cry, i bet you didnt have that skill..

133451

11 letters message

[Arachnophobik]

I do agree with you, 100%.

Only great mages uses lifegiver. And the rest that don't. Are mostly just average to below average mages.

Just remember one thing...Dead players means they deal ZERO DAMAGE. I repeat ZERO DAMAGE.

Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what? LIFEGIVER just safe your life by giving u that xtra 1-2 sec that you need to pot. Even if you use ankh to revived, it's still wasted time that you could have been attacking more if a mage uses LIFEGIVER.

And the majority of most people who does use pot, guess what again? That means they are attacking less if they pot (while running away from boss and try to pot and hopefully they pot in time, while they not attacking). Most players can't multitasked well.

And for the people who can MULTI-TASK, most likely they probably play on a computer, that's why they have all those hotkeys set. (Don't get me wrong, i do pot, but with a mage who uses LIFEGIVER it's a bonus.

Like i said, it's a bonus in an ELITE RUN if a Mage uses LIFEGIVER, doesn't matter if it's PVE or PVP. ALL Those things are the results of TEAMWORK.


There are three things that could be the cause of your "most time you cant pot in time".

1. You have a bad tank.
2. You dont have a tank.
3. You are bad at crowd control.

To attack while potting you also have to have a good crowd control i.e. rooting the enemies with clocks/stunning with fireball.
Ive ran elite tarewa during its hay days and not once have i ever appreciated a mage with heal. Its defintely a bonus tho if you have another mage with you that actually does crowd control.

[Sorcerie]

Lifegiver should be renamed to Lifetaker.

Because let's face it, at endgame elite this skill will kill a pty instantly. As everyone has said, heal draws aggro. I have seen a full planar tomb mob leave a warrior using taunt and turn on a mage with full and ruthless attention when they use this skill, and once the mage goes down it's not too long before the warrior and rogue are potting like mad and running for their lives. This goes double if you're using the regen upgrades.

This skill is only for noobs leveling to cap and/or pvp, where healing is a necessary evil.

But If you plan on being a real endgame mage you will lose this skill the moment you step into an elite map, otherwise your asking you and your party to farm deaths and waste revives.

Singlehandedly the worst skill in the game after Shadow Storm Shot.

That is all.

[Kingofninjas]

All life giver dies is unnecessarily draw aggro, which then kills the mage, making the said mage unable to perform his or her primary role, crowd control and aoe damage. IMO, even horn is relatively useless and the tank I'd better off with a third attack skill because if the mage you are running with does his job right, tanks will have no need to draw aggro and horn only provides a 2 second shield.

Whatever the case, any mage who uses heal in anything harder than elite dead city is not much more than a leech imo and is definitely not someone I will waste time running with again.

[gumball3000]

Warrior vb.
Boss/mobs need to hit the mages and or rogues in order to regen their mana while vb is active which rarely happens if warrior taunts well.

I do agree lifegiver has its time and place but it is not elite maps for sure. I think it's good for maps like the gauntlet or event maps. Mage with 3 attack skills or mage with 2 attack and heal will do pretty much the same damage to a boss so if u have a skill that can keep rogue hp mana up i think you should use it.

[Serancha]

Boss/mobs need to hit the mages and or rogues in order to regen their mana while vb is active which rarely happens if warrior taunts well.

In what lifetime? Maybe back in season 2.

There are less than a dozen warriors that I know of in the game (more like half that) that excel at taunting, and even their rogues get hit frequently. Holding aggro against a team of well geared rogues is a near-impossibility. Add a mage with heal and sorry, warrior taunt becomes laughable. Not the players' fault, this - it's the way the classes are structured and the fail at warrior development by sts for the pve field.

Vengeful blood is good for so much, the mana regen is mostly useful in pvp, however the other benefits are great in pve.

[JohnnyHardcore]

I do agree with you, 100%.

Only great mages uses lifegiver. And the rest that don't. Are mostly just average to below average mages.

Just remember one thing...Dead players means they deal ZERO DAMAGE. I repeat ZERO DAMAGE.

Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what? LIFEGIVER just safe your life by giving u that xtra 1-2 sec that you need to pot. Even if you use ankh to revived, it's still wasted time that you could have been attacking more if a mage uses LIFEGIVER.

And the majority of most people who does use pot, guess what again? That means they are attacking less if they pot (while running away from boss and try to pot and hopefully they pot in time, while they not attacking). Most players can't multitasked well.

And for the people who can MULTI-TASK, most likely they probably play on a computer, that's why they have all those hotkeys set. (Don't get me wrong, i do pot, but with a mage who uses LIFEGIVER it's a bonus.

Like i said, it's a bonus in an ELITE RUN if a Mage uses LIFEGIVER, doesn't matter if it's PVE or PVP. ALL Those things are the results of TEAMWORK.

You are beyond ridiculous. If you're an example of an above average to great mage, let me keep mediocre anyday.

If you can't pot fast enough to not die get better gear or open your eyes and pay attention. You have to be a special level of awful at the game to fail at this. I play on android exclusively and don't miss a beat. The only time I'm not attacking while potting is if letting the warrior taked aggro back. And if you're being one shot, as someone else said, heal doesn't do anything. Want to live long enough to pot? Use shield or die.

What's your IGN? This is the first, and probably only, time I want to add a forum member straight to my ignore list. I don't want to accidentally party with you. I think your 'greatness' would cause my head to explode.

[Ipoopsy]

Did he say about using No pots?

People never really read exactly what's written. They always assumed their ways are always better or become followers of whoever like to post the most on forums and assumed that those comments coming from those people are always right.

People who ran ELITE with me know who i am.

[Ipoopsy]

And who do you think you are to call others just average to below average mage??

Exactly dead player means they deal zero damage. You won't have to repeat it. When you use lifegiver, you draw aggroo of all the mobs if you are really one of those GREATEST MAGES (as you said), you should know it.
And when you aggroed all the mobs and if your party don't save you, you are dead. ZERO DAMAGE as you said.
Warriors are there to take aggros. You little mage trying to be fatties, very bad idea.

"Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what?"
What does that mean? When and why you cant pot in time? Do your pot vanishes or finger gets an urgent scratching call?
anyway for us, we can always pot. I don't know why Greatest mages (as you said) can't.



Huh what? Multitask? Are you serious? Are you okay? What are you talking about? People attack less while using pot?
Zzzzz.... nice jokes.

anyway, you talked all what have no logic. [People attack less while potting cuz people are not well at multitasking when they are not playing from computer... jeez whattha]

Heal or no heal its a personal choice. But lifegiver don't save you. It draws unwanted agros.
The mana you give through it, rogues don't depend on it.
Lifegiver cant fulfil the mana usage of rogues. Mages are better with another skill in pve.

Here's a simple example of a good mage: Say he has Gale, Clock, Shield and Lifegiver memorize.

Group of mobs pull by whoever (mostly war, occasionally other classes)
A smart to above average mage before or about to do crowd control is...Gale (to stun up to 6 mobs) then Clock after and then use LIFEGIVER After that. Thats how you stay alive even if LIFEGIVER aggros. And if he likes to cast shield before or after that, that's his choice.

That's what i mean by good to above mages who can play their class well.

Therefore, IMO. There are tooooooo many mages who do not know how to play their class well and therefore they are either AVERAGE or BELOW AVERAGE players.

[Dex Scene]

Here's a simple example of a good mage: Say he has Gale, Clock, Shield and Lifegiver memorize.

Group of mobs pull by whoever (mostly war, occasionally other classes)
A smart to above average mage before or about to do crowd control is...Gale (to stun up to 6 mobs) then Clock after and then use LIFEGIVER After that. And if he likes to cast shield before or after that, that's his choice.

That's what i mean by good to above mages who can play their class well.

Therefore, IMO. There are tooooooo many mages who do not know how to play their class well and therefore they are either AVERAGE or BELOW AVERAGE players.
Who are you to judge or call them average or below average mage?
They know enough how to play their class.
Its waste of time trying to explain to a stone as you can read above all we explained why lifegiver is bad at elite which you ignored. So take care. God bless your GREATEST MAGE.

[Anyona]

Here's a simple example of a good mage: Say he has Gale, Clock, Shield and Lifegiver memorize.

Group of mobs pull by whoever (mostly war, occasionally other classes)
A smart to above average mage before or about to do crowd control is...Gale (to stun up to 6 mobs) then Clock after and then use LIFEGIVER After that. Thats how you stay alive even if LIFEGIVER aggros. And if he likes to cast shield before or after that, that's his choice.

That's what i mean by good to above mages who can play their class well.

Therefore, IMO. There are tooooooo many mages who do not know how to play their class well and therefore they are either AVERAGE or BELOW AVERAGE players.
Sorry but if a mage uses life giver on ELITE he is a bad mage. Crowd control is a mages' job, not aggro

[Bless]

Would be tons of fun to make maps without HP potions to force some party balance. Right now a big part of the issue is the ability of the DPS to spam healing potions.

yep, or a pot cd

[Edward Coug]

yep, or a pot cd

Do you really want to make this game even more cliquey? Being able to spam pots allows experienced players to pick up the slack when less-than-stellar players are in the game. If pot-spamming is taken away, good luck to randoms getting parties in planar. It won't happen.

[Bless]

Do you really want to make this game even more cliquey? Being able to spam pots allows experienced players to pick up the slack when less-than-stellar players are in the game. If pot-spamming is taken away, good luck to randoms getting parties in planar. It won't happen. Even with pot spamming, most PuGs/under geared parties don't go well unless the players are geared anyways (or it takes way too long).

The point of elites is to experience difficulty whilst trying to loot this hard-earned gear, it shouldn't be a walk in the park (or "slack") which is mainly the case when the party has decent gear and pots.

I don't know if it'll work in this game, but it does in other MMOs - in most other MMOs I've played, there is no such thing as spamming of potions.

Of course, the quality of loot should be improved if this is the case, but that's a different matter.

[Haligali]

Here's a simple example of a good mage: Say he has Gale, Clock, Shield and Lifegiver memorize.

Group of mobs pull by whoever (mostly war, occasionally other classes)
A smart to above average mage before or about to do crowd control is...Gale (to stun up to 6 mobs) then Clock after and then use LIFEGIVER After that. Thats how you stay alive even if LIFEGIVER aggros. And if he likes to cast shield before or after that, that's his choice.

That's what i mean by good to above mages who can play their class well.

Therefore, IMO. There are tooooooo many mages who do not know how to play their class well and therefore they are either AVERAGE or BELOW AVERAGE players.

Very good build but try replace clock with curse, go with a warrior who use rally cry plus a rogue who use combat medic and charge shadow pierce always. Passive skill I suggest damage and speed maxed out so you can run away from mobs faster. Pet is deary of course, if you haven't got then scorn really helps, or the short cd misty.

[Ardbeg]

Very good build but try replace clock with curse, go with a warrior who use rally cry plus a rogue who use combat medic and charge shadow pierce always. Passive skill I suggest damage and speed maxed out so you can run away from mobs faster. Pet is deary of course, if you haven't got then scorn really helps, or the short cd misty.

this made my day :)

[Ipoopsy]

Even with pot spamming, most PuGs/under geared parties don't go well unless the players are geared anyways (or it takes way too long).

The point of elites is to experience difficulty whilst trying to loot this hard-earned gear, it shouldn't be a walk in the park (or "slack") which is mainly the case when the party has decent gear and pots.

I don't know if it'll work in this game, but it does in other MMOs - in most other MMOs I've played, there is no such thing as spamming of potions.

Of course, the quality of loot should be improved if this is the case, but that's a different matter.

This is what MOST MMO Or MMORPG should be.

Just like i mention before about limit the amount of Ankhs being use in ELITE RUNS, which was in another topic.

But since ANKH is so easily available, Majority of most players think that they good at running ELITE, just because they can revived quite easily. And to me IMO again, there is no skill involved at all.

But this game have basically almost come to an end recently, because tooooooooooooo many people whined tooooooooo much and they can't seem to adapt to how the game was intended to be. Too many players think that they know more than the DEV itself.

If you have suggestions, great. Just stop whining and learn to adapt when you play. Don't expect others to play like you play.

[JohnnyHardcore]

Can we minus thanks/rep from someone...? The heal end of this conversation is about as absorbent as a gold coin.

[Red Dress]

I do agree with you, 100%.

Only great mages uses lifegiver. And the rest that don't. Are mostly just average to below average mages.

Just remember one thing...Dead players means they deal ZERO DAMAGE. I repeat ZERO DAMAGE.

Even if your lucky to pot, there are most time you can't pot in time and guess what? LIFEGIVER just safe your life by giving u that xtra 1-2 sec that you need to pot. Even if you use ankh to revived, it's still wasted time that you could have been attacking more if a mage uses LIFEGIVER.

And the majority of most people who does use pot, guess what again? That means they are attacking less if they pot (while running away from boss and try to pot and hopefully they pot in time, while they not attacking). Most players can't multitasked well.

And for the people who can MULTI-TASK, most likely they probably play on a computer, that's why they have all those hotkeys set. (Don't get me wrong, i do pot, but with a mage who uses LIFEGIVER it's a bonus.

Like i said, it's a bonus in an ELITE RUN if a Mage uses LIFEGIVER, doesn't matter if it's PVE or PVP. ALL Those things are the results of TEAMWORK.


Okay, let me translate this:

Only great mages aggro mobs and die because they are too cheap or uncoordinated to use potions. And the rest are mostly just nabs.

Just remember one thing.... using a bit more potions and an extra damage skill means they deal ZERO DAMAGE. I repeat ZERO DAMAGE.

Even if you're have the coordination to pot, there are times when your fingers are sore and guess what? LIFEGIVER just saved you a few extra taps by sacrificing damage and aggro-ing mobs! Even if you wasted time and possibly ankhs, you still saved your sore fingers from the extra taps using LIFEGIVER.

And the majority of people who aren't dirt cheap or lack the brain function to tap the potion button, guess what again? You still lack the coordination to pot and will end up deal less damage anyways. Most players can't use two fingers at the same time.

And for the people who can USE TWO FINGERS AT THE SAME TIME, most likely they play on a computer, that's why they are able to play the game properly. (Don't get me wrong, I do pot, but with a mage that DRAWS AGGRO AND DEALS LESS DAMAGE it's a bonus.

Like I said, it's a bonus in an ELITE RUN if mage SACRIFICES DAMAGE, SCREWS UP A TANK'S JOB, AND WASTES TIME, doesn't matter if it's PVE or PVP. All those things are the results of TEAMWORK.

-

Jokes aside, most players can afford to buy potions and do have the ability to spam potions. If they can't afford potions, they shouldn't be running more difficult elites anyways.

I play all three classes and use an android phone primarily (though I have played on PC) and I have no trouble spamming potions. I have ran with lifegiver mages in Nordr+ elites, and from what I've seen they die much more than mages who use shield and 3 crowd control skills, not to mention it takes longer to complete the map.

Why would you call lifegiver mages the "pro" mages if they take longer and causes more deaths in elite? Lifegiver should only be used in PVP, never endgame PVE.

[ClumsyCactus]

Here's a simple example of a good mage: Say he has Gale, Clock, Shield and Lifegiver memorize.

Group of mobs pull by whoever (mostly war, occasionally other classes)
A smart to above average mage before or about to do crowd control is...Gale (to stun up to 6 mobs) then Clock after and then use LIFEGIVER After that. Thats how you stay alive even if LIFEGIVER aggros. And if he likes to cast shield before or after that, that's his choice.

That's what i mean by good to above mages who can play their class well.

Therefore, IMO. There are tooooooo many mages who do not know how to play their class well and therefore they are either AVERAGE or BELOW AVERAGE players.

But now the real Qustion is...
If this AMAZING godly mage we speak of has them all stunned, as such a good mage must be able to do, why do you need the heal?
It literally is Only to waste time and not attack at that point, even more so if ypu have them stunned.
pots are faster and will allow you to attack at the same time.

[Covert]

You guys should play o&c, there's actually a support class :chuncky:

[JohnnyHardcore]

But now the real Qustion is...
If this AMAZING godly mage we speak of has them all stunned, as such a good mage must be able to do, why do you need the heal?
It literally is Only to waste time and not attack at that point, even more so if ypu have them stunned.
pots are faster and will allow you to attack at the same time.

Ohhh. After reading your post it dawned on me. With a mage as talented as Ipoopsy, the heal isn't NEEDED. It's there to NOT be used, or to be used to taunt the lowly stunned mobs that can't do anything but wither at his power. Makes perfect sense.

[JohnnyHardcore]

Ohhh. After reading your post it dawned on me. With a mage as talented as Ipoopsy, the heal isn't NEEDED. It's there to NOT be used, or to be used to taunt the lowly stunned mobs that can't do anything but wither at his power. Makes perfect sense.

WHOOOAAA! My post gave me an idea to (maybe? Whaddya think?) Fix lifegiver. Call it lifeTAKER, make it a low damage SiE cast on enemy, and have mana and health siphoned and split between party members.

[Jirikjurasek]

I don't know if it'll work in this game, but it does in other MMOs - in most other MMOs I've played, there is no such thing as spamming of potions.


There is no heal class as in others mmorpg. This game is simply different and maybe its the reason why we all play it

*Imagine heal class, which is able to heal enough to survive big pulls in elites*
*Imagine how this heal class come into pvp*
*Imagine bilions of cry posts on forum - nerf healing in pvp*

[Jirikjurasek]

Here's a simple example of a good mage: Say he has Gale, Clock, Shield and Lifegiver memorize.

Group of mobs pull by whoever (mostly war, occasionally other classes)
A smart to above average mage before or about to do crowd control is...Gale (to stun up to 6 mobs) then Clock after and then use LIFEGIVER After that. Thats how you stay alive even if LIFEGIVER aggros. And if he likes to cast shield before or after that, that's his choice.

That's what i mean by good to above mages who can play their class well.

Therefore, IMO. There are tooooooo many mages who do not know how to play their class well and therefore they are either AVERAGE or BELOW AVERAGE players.

I dont want to be "that guy" but sorry, its time to grow up. Time of control mobs only with clock is over (in fact, that time never be there :D)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAOWOg8PeJs

[gumball3000]

In what lifetime? Maybe back in season 2.

There are less than a dozen warriors that I know of in the game (more like half that) that excel at taunting, and even their rogues get hit frequently. Holding aggro against a team of well geared rogues is a near-impossibility. Add a mage with heal and sorry, warrior taunt becomes laughable. Not the players' fault, this - it's the way the classes are structured and the fail at warrior development by sts for the pve field.

Vengeful blood is good for so much, the mana regen is mostly useful in pvp, however the other benefits are great in pve.
B4 the mage ice glitch i could hold aggro of tomb 3 boss 99% of the time and i could control his position extremely well. I think all bosses can be taunted pretty well by tanks the only problem is that you have to learn some timings because sometimes the boss is untauntable or at least thats what i noticed.

Mobs are very easy to taunt, you will need windmill, cs, jug and heal, the secret here is to use the skills as soon as they are available, this way mobs will only attack you. When i have healer mage, i just save windmill and use it right after his heal to grab the mobs attention.

I am not sure about other bosses around arlor, i got alot of experience in t3 and i know all the boss red zones and combos but i think any boss can be mastered with enough practice.