Content Consumption Rates - Data Request

[Justg]

We'd very much like your help on analyzing content consumption rates for different areas.

It sounds like some of you have gotten pretty comfortable with the GCD changes. Now that you are cracking with it, how long did it take you pre and post-GDC?

The more examples of different instances the better, and thank you!

- g

[Plasticuproject]

...........

[Conradin]

Well gcd affects hogh lvls more than lower imo- i clear juat as fast as usual on my 10 and 20. Havent tried on my 55

[Junside]

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking for.

Well for PVE, I'm doing nothing but helping some lower level friends in AO and Balefort Stronghold. Did fairly well in both, considering I still had to teach some of them some tips, and having had some quitters in the party, more work for the remaining people. But best example I can give is Stronghold. I did about 10 runs since, and I seldom hear complaining about the GCD while we run. We all did our parts, sometimes, missing a bear, but nothing was impossible. We used our most essential skills like thorn wall, cruel shot, aoe skills, etc for mobs. For bosses, of course, we used more skills. Again, no one complained about the GCD. As if they forgot it exists. People adapt to it without even noticing.

PVP a totally different story. This is a sensitive subject, since it can be the most controversial area to cover. I'd still choose no GCD over any GCD any day. It just feels more intense, like you could die at any moment if you're not completely focused. But right now, it's a quiet, watered down fight. I could see it being something I'd get used to and maybe that spark for PVP will come back. I can say that PVP is a release for many players who are addicted to it. For whatever reasons I cannot fathom, but can assume a general idea. I don't feel that strong sense of victory anymore when I fight and win. I guess I'm crossing over to player experience instead of game mechanics.

But yeah, that pretty much summarizes my best examples to share.

[Zeus]

Before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELi2F5eSG2M


Now: Barely under 5 Minutes. Keep in mind. This is with a professional team.

[Sigkill]

PVE is definitely much slower then before. However the New PVP requires more strategy then just button mashing, and this is coming from a person who was pretty good at button mashing. At least we don't have to worry about multi-touch-noobs

[braluk]

Gotten used to it and like it. Not sure what content consumption rate means exactly but I'll make a few pointers for pve
Me: 55 Bear
1) Booting rates are higher for even level appropriate players. "Low" is typically used- I used to run with people in groups who were 5 levels before me, but I don't see this much anymore.
2) Things are smoother. I get less choppiness. I use my skills as I see fit- when approaching a crowd, I'll triage my skills according to the situation. Evasion, Iron Blood, Taunt, Beckon, Stomp in that order as I approach a mob. A different skill combo for mini-bosses/bosses (namely attack combos). Teaches people how to use skills more efficiently. Bosses still get cleared relatively quickly.
3) M/S is essentially useless now. This hurts mages. I have 6 M/s and I never see my blue bar go down below 90% and I use all my skills. I can't imagine how this much sucks for mages who have a huge m/s number. I know for sure that I haven't used one blue pot since the update since I can no longer spam my mana away.

[Justg]

Before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELi2F5eSG2M


Now: Barely under 5 Minutes. Keep in mind. This is with a professional team.

That is exactly what I am looking for here.

Hideout Before: 3:30
Hideout After: 5:00

Rough numbers are good, specific numbers are better.

And thank you!

[KingFu]

I was in a team with Htiek and Mitsu, we got in a run at 4:10ish:D

Edit:

No pots other than xp:p

[Jespo]

Its almost like PvP evolved from seeing who is the faster tapper to who is more strategical with their skills. I prefer it this way because now everyone hast to come up with all types of new combos.

[Justg]

I was in a team with Htiek and Mitsu, we got in a run at 4:10ish:D

Edit:

No pots other than xp:p

Where? 4:10 Before or after? And what was your other time?

I am very specifically looking for analytical data here. Thanks :)

[WILLIAM cmy]

The average for the Hideout I did with random peoples:
(Usual path, kill the gold fever, 13 mobs left in the end)

Hideout Before: within 6 mins
Hideout After: around 5:00 + another 5:00 for killing the boss

I use xp pot so I can count the first 5 mins pretty accurate.

[spacehamster]

Pretty much same as above. Hideout runs prior to update were 4-4:30ish, xp pots generally ran out shortly after killing boss. Now same run averages 6-8 min depending upon our group getting in sync for combos.

[Physiologic]

Balefort Sewers
Average party pre-GCD: Lv 55/56, 2 to 3 birds, 1 to 2 mages, 1 to 2 bears
Party post-GCD: Lv 55/56, 4 birds, 1 mage
Party generally has gone through this campaign numerous times and essentially "mastered" it. Players generally have played with each other before (no PUGs).

Bandit Hideout average time to complete (in minutes:seconds format)
Pre-GCD: 3:30-4:00
Post-GCD: 4:45-5:30

Pre-GCD video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_qza65CO_A (finished 3:26)

Bandit Stronghold (very few enemies remaining)
Pre-GCD: 4:30-5:00
Post-GCD: 5:45-6:30

Catacombs (very few enemies remaining)
Pre-GCD: 3:45-4:00
Post-GCD: 4:30-4:45

Pre-GCD video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXpwubCFFa8 (finished 3:50)

Roach Motel (no toxic archers killed)
Pre-GCD: 2:45-3:00
Post-GCD: 3:15-3:30

Swill Pitz (if Goblin King killed before totem activates; ~17 enemies remaining)
Pre-GCD: 2:15-2:30
Post-GCD: 2:40-3:00

[krazii]

It sounds like some of you have gotten pretty comfortable with the GCD changes. Now that you are cracking with it, how long did it take you pre and post-GDC?
- g

It does? Are we reading the same threads? People overwhelmingly wanted GCD removed (some just wanted it reduced)! Does this mean your done with the GCD issue and have moved on? Is it here to stay the way it is?

Kraz

[Slush]

im afraid its here to stay. didnt play yesterday, but got on today and did a catacombs run, and a littlw bit of pvp. mages are not beating me at pvp now, and the catacombs run took 7 minutes... now i know why everyine is compalaining.

[Ellyidol]

They've said it will definitely stay, unfortunately for those that do not agree with it.

G, how would you want data in PvP terms? Since you can't really measure time/match. Or is this only for PvE?

[Physiologic]

Content is not really consumed in PvP matches although you could say something like

"Average lv 56 PvP match bird vs bear
Pre-GCD time
Post-GCD: time"

For future reference for players who aren't familiar with the term, "content consumption" is the rate at which content (going through a campaign, leveling up, getting equips) is consumed by a player. "Consumed" means that the player has finished a campaign, finished quests, leveled to a certain level, etc - basically accomplished something in the game. A vast majority of the time in most MMOs, content is consumed faster than developers can create it.

Developers mostly work to get around "fast content consumption" by either 1.) producing more content faster or 2.) reducing the rate of content consumption. In this case, GCD goes along with option 2.

[Ellyidol]

Thought about that, but wouldn't it vary on my opponent too? Unless I do a whole lot and average them? Gak, no time.

But yes, I agree GCD definitely slowed down content consumption, lucky for us who got to the end before it though :)

[Physiologic]

Yeah, there's real no surefire way to measure PvP times. PvE times aren't totally accurate as well but still a lot more accurate than PvP. And yeah, getting to 56 will be really tough to a sub-professional/PUG party...

[Ellyidol]

Yeah, there's real no surefire way to measure PvP times. PvE times aren't totally accurate as well but still a lot more accurate than PvP. And yeah, getting to 56 will be really tough to a sub-professional/PUG party...

Okay, I'll take it from the expert of how to measure data :P

I wouldn't know, I haven't been much at all in PvE - maybe 10 or so runs since GCD was introduced. Not because I don't like it, just want things to settle and be semi-permanent before I actually try and learn it.

Thanks Phys!

[Physiologic]

You could still measure average PvP match times :) I'm sure cap-leveled PvP games don't last 1 second as they have before!

[Doubletime]

Balefort Sewers
Average party pre-GCD: Lv 55/56, 2 to 3 birds, 1 to 2 mages, 1 to 2 bears
Party post-GCD: Lv 55/56, 4 birds, 1 mage
Party generally has gone through this campaign numerous times and essentially "mastered" it. Players generally have played with each other before (no PUGs).

Bandit Hideout average time to complete (in minutes:seconds format)
Pre-GCD: 3:30-4:00
Post-GCD: 4:45-5:30

Pre-GCD video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_qza65CO_A (finished 3:26)

Bandit Stronghold (very few enemies remaining)
Pre-GCD: 4:30-5:00
Post-GCD: 5:45-6:30

Catacombs (very few enemies remaining)
Pre-GCD: 3:45-4:00
Post-GCD: 4:30-4:45

Pre-GCD video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXpwubCFFa8 (finished 3:50)

Roach Motel (no toxic archers killed)
Pre-GCD: 2:45-3:00
Post-GCD: 3:15-3:30

Swill Pitz (if Goblin King killed before totem activates; ~17 enemies remaining)
Pre-GCD: 2:15-2:30
Post-GCD: 2:40-3:00

Justg,

We had very similar results to Phys in the parties we ran yesterday post-patch. These numbers are very close to the ones we timed yesterday. Pre-GCD those numbers are also the same -- as Phys and I typically play with the same people and each other.

Our parties yesterday were made up (mostly) of two pally and three birds or one pally and four birds. These were all high skill players such as JaytB, Echelong, Mooger, Mitsuisun, Raevyyne, Apollo (and I'll throw myself in there as well lol). We play together a lot and know how to play as a group. Because of this, I believe that the times are significantly reduced over the PUGs I ran some during the day. I will time my PUG runs today to get specifics, but some examples of PUG times yesterday (post-patch) would be:

Hideout - XP pot expired (5 minute mark) prior to completing last two mob areas before Gold Fever. Gold Fever would then take approximately 3 minutes to kill.
EDIT -- Preliminary Number - 4 random PUG groups all level appropriate players. Mix of all classes. Average time was 9:04.

Stronghold - XP pot would expire (5 minute mark) before entering last hall leading to mobs and King & Queen. King and Queen would take in excess of 3 minutes to kill.
EDIT -- Preliminary Number - 4 random Pug groups all level appropriate player and mix of classes. Average time was 10:47.

So the data seems to support at this point that PUGs are taking approximately 1.5 to 2 times longer than the runs in our private games last night. I think this is the biggest effect I have seen post-GCD related to game time.

[lilbyrdie]

With my Level 52 Enchantress, I could solo AO3:CtK in about 4 minutes 30 seconds, with warrior elixir. This is through the aliens, but not into the keeper location and includes taking out the lore keeper.
Now it takes me about 6 minutes 30 seconds to 7 minutes.

An average, I now think it is taking about 40% longer.

With more practice, I might be able to get that down some as I learn which subset of skills are now optimal for speed.

I don't think I can beat the elixir time anymore, though. If the elixir lasted longer, the run would be faster. I don't re-elixir after it runs out.

[noneo]

I'll get solo Plasma Pyramid numbers for you tonight. I have all the "Pre" data from my Gold Farming thread.

[Echelong]

For hideout pre-GCD with pugs it was between 5-6 minutes; with our farming group it was 3:45 to less than 5 minutes.
After GCD out farming group on hideout has been less than 5 minutes and PUGs close to 8 or 10 depending on the group.

For stronghold our farming group was 4 to less than 6 minutes and now its 5-6 hard to get below the 5 minutes mark without damage pots. With PUGs on Stronghold 7+ minutes using damage pots.

Our group last night had 2 or 3 Full RR or custom gear and we had 1 or 2 int mages or paladin. Paladin always used a damage pot.

I will have to see if our group wants to test a few runs with purple, green or orange gear only. So far with pinks we take only a bit more than it used too but bosses like the queen that have heal take a lot longer than they used too.

PS: Plasma Pyramid soloing takes almost twice as long as it used too and its unbearable with a mage. Birds seem to do it faster (Mitsuisun was testing this) and his mage runs where at least 1 minute or more longer.

[superss]

justg, i know this is not exact data but i am a lvl 50 dex-chantress using laser talon, force wing, Jacob's helmet of the void, and wraith armor of the void. i was going to go farming vyxnarr a bit and so i enter his dungeon and in the first room the skeletons kill me. vyxnarr did not help with the kill and i think there were 2 main reasons. #1 i couldn't turn on my mana shield in time and #2 i couldn't heal fast enough. either i am not good at all :) or the cool down finished me.

[Plasticuproject]

...........

[Physiologic]

To add onto everyone's experience between a professional party and a PUG:

Pre-GCD, there is a huge difference between the two in terms of time to clear a map. For that reason my parties were always with dependable people on my friend's list.

Now with post-GCD PUG games, fights take 3-5 minutes longer than compared to a professional post-GCD game.

Also, keep in mind that my post-GCD games consisted of 4 archers and 1 mage. Take away 2 to 3 archers and time to complete a map is increased significantly. Clearing mobs is no problem if the party has 4 archers or 1 archer, but the time to kill a boss is lengthened (moreso than pre-GCD) when only 1 archer is in the party.

[Leiver]

I just did level 38-45 on my mage almost entirely in plasma pyramid. Use exp elixer (5 mins) at start of run and pre gcd it would run out with about 35-40 mobs remaining (so 135-140 mobs killed), then we remake the level. Now it is running out with 50-60 mobs remaining (so 105-115 mobs killed). Quite a significant difference I reckon since we don't get past the Lesser D'Jinn now

[spookytooth]

I agree its a little slower in some areas of pve but still somewhere around the 5 min mark with a regular non seasoned group. Also would like to comment on the boot rate. It seems people are tightening up kn there grouo expectations. Been booted a few times in balefort for being too low. Now it might be just me but i also have a 55 warrior and i never woukd have booted a 51 from hideout, especially a bird.

[StompArtist]

I agree its a little slower in some areas of pve but still somewhere around the 5 min mark with a regular non seasoned group. Also would like to comment on the boot rate. It seems people are tightening up kn there grouo expectations. Been booted a few times in balefort for being too low. Now it might be just me but i also have a 55 warrior and i never woukd have booted a 51 from hideout, especially a bird.

Yeah. More people reaching 55/56 booting lower than them...

[lilbyrdie]

Yeah. More people reaching 55/56 booting lower than them...

I've noticed more booting myself (having been the target of it)... but that has nothing to do with the update. But it's odd going into Frozen Nightmares as a 52 Mage and getting the boot. Yes, it's Elite, but it's meant to be Elite for levels 30-35...

As for the timings today:

AO3:CtK Solo, warriors elixir, through to the aliens but not keeper room, but including lore keeper: 4:45.

Before GCD, 4:30, yesterday 6:30+.

I personally wanted to see times short enough for the elixirs to work for the whole run. They are now short enough for me. It's clearly not far off from pre-GCD.

Lookin' good!

(Now just waiting for Apple to approve the update so the Join button fix will go in. :) )