Solve PvP blocking problem

[Tabeer Amin]

Let everyone join in pvp. Even if it's 5v4 let more dan 1 join (till lobby) so ders no blocking.
When there will be 5vs5 den people in lobby will auto - direct in home page (where PLAY option comes).
This can solve blocking problem. [emoji4] [emoji5]

[illidan]

it wont solve it total...there still can be blockers in ur team ...but anyways,I still like ur idea ,I hope sts will listen to u :)

[Kakashis]

Make it so that the same guild can't join the other side as well as 3 votes to kick out someone from your own team. If it's just 2 on your side with blockers and you're vs 5 it's GG anyways. Even 3 would be tight

[G-M]

Make it so that the same guild can't join the other side as well as 3 votes to kick out someone from your own team. If it's just 2 on your side with blockers and you're vs 5 it's GG anyways. Even 3 would be tight

Do you think people would get around this by forming alt guilds for the purpose of blocking?

[Wazakesy]

Do you think people would get around this by forming alt guilds for the purpose of blocking?

yes, ive seen people who will make lv40 alts with the purpose of blocking, ive seen this in ACTION as well. PvP has become so messed up with blocking, Nekros power, dominating gears like arcane rings and the uber OP SnS....

Please, create a new PvP zone with the introduction of Rengol, the names of players would be replaced with Player1 / #P1 , Player2 / #P2. And slots will be chosen by the server

Something like the MOBA system, add a requirement gear, if i have arcane ring, it will be uneqquiped and i will be granted a mythic ring instead

[G-M]

yes, ive seen people who will make lv40 alts with the purpose of blocking, ive seen this in ACTION as well. PvP has become so messed up with blocking, Nekros power, dominating gears like arcane rings and the uber OP SnS....

Please, create a new PvP zone with the introduction of Rengol, the names of players would be replaced with Player1 / #P1 , Player2 / #P2. And slots will be chosen by the server

Something like the MOBA system, add a requirement gear, if i have arcane ring, it will be uneqquiped and i will be granted a mythic ring instead

These are interesting ideas. Do you want to replace the player name so friends can't coordinate?

[Bmwmsix]

yes, ive seen people who will make lv40 alts with the purpose of blocking, ive seen this in ACTION as well. PvP has become so messed up with blocking, Nekros power, dominating gears like arcane rings and the uber OP SnS....

Please, create a new PvP zone with the introduction of Rengol, the names of players would be replaced with Player1 / #P1 , Player2 / #P2. And slots will be chosen by the server

Something like the MOBA system, add a requirement gear, if i have arcane ring, it will be uneqquiped and i will be granted a mythic ring instead

+1
One major factor also would be if we could use pure Pvp Equip instead of pve equip.

[Wazakesy]

These are interesting ideas. Do you want to replace the player name so friends can't coordinate?

I would say yes for a system like i have mentioned above, however - im afraid people would disagree a bit with me,im interested as well as per who has more thoughts. I can only provide an Edge of PvP, from what i have seen.

Im not saying friends cant coordinate, but for this zone, its something like from Call of Champs. Player names are replaced, [Optional - Gears replaced], fixed slots (server chooses your slot), a class system, fixed pets (optional again)

Gear replacement:

I'd like to see separate gears for PvP, no gemmed gears or maybe those gears chosen by the server, i orefer gemless gears, at least you can rely on your skill and builds. Gears like current expedition weapons, mythic set, blood ruby, amulet of doom / Lunar pendant / Fang of the Fenrir

class system:

Warrior + rogue + mage = This is what i would like to see, currently you will never need a tank in the presence of a nekro, probably you will need a mage for mana and a tank for sucking up all the damage in case the opponent team is powerful.

Also, let there be multiple rooms as well, along with waiting rooms option, you can join a room that needs Class X to start the game.

[Kakashis]

Do you think people would get around this by forming alt guilds for the purpose of blocking?

For sure there will be alt guilds and allied guilds that will try to block on your side, but if you can have 3 votes (majority) on your side to vote kick people who are standing around or stealing packs on your team, then at least you have a chance to get someone else to come join your team. Right now there's nothing we can do. This system will work, the only issue I see is that same guild members would have to leave guild to 1v1 if they wanted to try against each other.


These are interesting ideas. Do you want to replace the player name so friends can't coordinate?

What will happen is if the teams are so mixed up with players, it will be a luck based room. Sometimes you'll get 5 on your side and the other as blockers, or vice versa. We all wear distinct enough vanities to recognize each other as well as we can talk in pvp to identify. It won't address any blocking issues.

[Wazakesy]

For sure there will be alt guilds and allied guilds that will try to block on your side, but if you can have 3 votes (majority) on your side to vote kick people who are standing around or stealing packs on your team, then at least you have a chance to get someone else to come join your team. Right now there's nothing we can do.



What will happen is if the teams are so mixed up with players, it will be a luck based. Sometimes you'll get 5 on your side and the other as blockers, or vice versa. We all wear distinct enough vanities to recognize each other as well as we can talk in pvp to identify. It won't address any blocking issues.

oh well, thanks for reminding me on the block players part, ensure there is no chat in the PvP style as i have suggested, also if a player has been found not fighting for 1-3mins - players on the blocked side may request for a boot.

And another thing as well, replace the Kill/Death with matches won / matches lost. This is my very own community infused idea

[Matrimony]

Wish people would stop crying about pets they cant afford, because if you owned them pets then the player could see their not 0p. Most people that have these pets have put lots of time into earning them, in return made them a stronger player along the way. Now the blocking issue could only be solved by the vote kick system for 1s team to group up, maybe a 10 sec chance to get voted, so it wouldnt be instant boot and if they out block you by more than 2, just find a new game. #my2cents

[-no]

the only issue I see is that same guild members would have to leave guild to 1v1 if they wanted to try against each other.

Unless a 1v1 arena is implemented. Or a practice pvp area for guild.

[Hail]

oh well, thanks for reminding me on the block players part, ensure there is no chat in the PvP style as i have suggested, also if a player has been found not fighting for 1-3mins - players on the blocked side may request for a boot.

And another thing as well, replace the Kill/Death with matches won / matches lost. This is my very own community infused idea

*runs and auto attacks*
Boom right past the boot option

[Wazakesy]

*runs and auto attacks*
Boom right past the boot option

#BootAnytimeOption&11CharactersSux

[Kakashis]

oh well, thanks for reminding me on the block players part, ensure there is no chat in the PvP style as i have suggested, also if a player has been found not fighting for 1-3mins - players on the blocked side may request for a boot.

And another thing as well, replace the Kill/Death with matches won / matches lost. This is my very own community infused idea

Thinking more about it, I think as long as there's a majority boot option, both teams would even out without any other measures needed.

[G-M]

Thinking more about it, I think as long as there's a majority boot option, both teams would even out without any other measures needed.

Majority boot option in the lobby or in the match?

[epicrrr]

STS if you take away OUR ability to block (I block im not a hypocrite).
Please give us the ability to create a 5v5 room or else some of these ideas are kinda "turning-off" points for a substantial number of PVPers.

[davidvilla]

Don't revolve ur head too much. The solution is very very simple.
Make a pvp arena which completely hides guild tag and the ign. And disable the chat box too.
I hope this will address most of the current problem and pvp will once again be like season 2 full of fun. Thank you

[Serancha]

Do you think people would get around this by forming alt guilds for the purpose of blocking?

Of course they would. If there's a way to cheat or exploit, they will do it.


These are interesting ideas. Do you want to replace the player name so friends can't coordinate?

Would they not just make parties before going in? Then they ensure they all get the same game. Or they party their alts and bring them in to block.

Same would happen if you removed names. They just party up first.



Maybe limit the length of time someone can stay in the lobby without choosing a team. At least that would stop lobby blocking.

[davidvilla]

Yea and 1 more easy solution in addition to my post above regarding blocking.
All this time was a manual (players choice) team select. Introduce auto team select (random team selection from System itself). What will happen is as follows:
- players won't even know who their actual opponents are. They might be their friends might be enemies. So no biased pvp.
- players won't see guild tag either so no more drama
- disabled chat box will completely ignore pvp drama, trash talks or join block issues
- random team selection from system will distribute player randomly which will make blocking a myth.
- players will only get info about their kills at the end of the match Through scoreboard.

[Ravager]

Do you think people would get around this by forming alt guilds for the purpose of blocking?

A way to prevent this is to remove any join buttons in PvP zones. To further prevent alt guilds from joining, don't allow people to communicate outside of pvp rooms, so no /g chats, no creating parties, no pms, etc.

This sounds like a good starting direction. Call of champions has no chat function and is a pvp-based game.

We still have a problem with them choosing sides at the beginning. As soon as they see friends or guildmates, they may start the blocking. Have to hide player names till the end.

[Oursizes]

This sounds like a good starting direction. Call of champions has no chat function and is a pvp-based game.

We still have a problem with them choosing sides at the beginning. As soon as they see friends or guildmates, they may start the blocking. Have to hide player names till the end.

When in lobby the names should appear as players 1,2,3, etc . like someone else stated in this game. Also in addition to that the server should auto place in teams to balance gear disparity and the "farming" of other players.

[Serancha]

I understand the purpose of the suggestion, but if you remove the ability to join or even talk, you then take away people's ability to play with friends. That makes pvp a completely solo game, which holds no appeal for a lot of people. Many people play to spend time with others, not spend it essentially alone. If I wanted to be alone I would just stay offline. But at least it would get rid of jjjj spammers.

[xnorwayx]

Need guild practice pvp arena. sometimes I want to play pvp with guildies for fun, but any room I join, I end up getting farmed by arcane rogues with Nekro. In guild pvp room it will be possible to host guild tournaments, do vs with friends and no one will join and gang you in time of vs.
Now About this thread.
No player names in pvp? It means I can't play with friends now :/ I do pvp for fun only and 90% of time with my friends, I will never go to game alone without someone helping against few known lvl 41 pvp guilds, who gang me all of the time. So I totally dislike idea of not showing names in pvp + Each guild will start wearing own vanity sets to recognise each other so blocking will still exist -.-
I totally love idea of 3 votes kick from room. It will prevent much blocking, but newcomers(noobs/foods like people call them(don't like that. they are just new to game and that's all) will not enjoy pvp becouse most probably they will get kicked from room at the time of each guild war. and sometimes even they Are helpful! For example few weeks ago we had 4v5 and everyone said to him leave, but he used wind and fire to stun enemies and we won 1 fight.. So this idea with kicking players have both good and bad sides.

[Kakashis]

Majority boot option in the lobby or in the match?

During the match because people will come and go. If the next person that joins has no other intention other than blocking, a majority vote would open up the spot to someone else mid match.

The whole purpose is not to make the experience less fun by not allowing friends to join or talk during matches. It's to just make both sides even such that blocking wouldn't be part of the strategy to make the teams staggered. 5v4 is still doable with strategy, but the fun factor starts dropping once it's 5v3 or worse. The solution to those would still be to just leave the room :)

[Oursizes]

During the match because people will come and go. If the next person that joins has no other intention other than blocking, a majority vote would open up the spot to someone else mid match.

The whole purpose is not to make the experience less fun by not allowing friends to join or talk during matches. It's to just make both sides even such that blocking wouldn't be part of the strategy to make the teams staggered. 5v4 is still doable with strategy, but the fun factor starts dropping once it's 5v3 or worse. The solution to those would still be to just leave the room :)

Thing is, if its majority boot and youre undergeared you will get kicked faster than roadrunner says meep meep.

[Kakashis]

Thing is, if its majority boot and youre undergeared you will get kicked faster than roadrunner says meep meep.

Good point, perhaps the legendary players vs the arcane/mythic players is a bad idea anyways...

[Oursizes]

Good point, perhaps the legendary players vs the arcane/mythic players is a bad idea anyways...
Maybe seperate rooms based on gears? The server puts you in a room with people of same or similar gear levels to yours(or stats whatever), and you cannot switch gears during the match to prevent some noob with gears going around killing players with sss. Lets say if you use a certain rarity of something(including arcane) in a legendary/mythic room, you are automatically booted out and return to the main menu where the "play" button is. I just read another thread, and Zylx has a very strong statement. No matter the gear, every player has the right to pvp. Some maxed out "pro" shouldnt have the power to take that right away from players. Pvp is a right, not a priviledge. Its there for all players of all classes and levels, and creating seperate, gear based rooms would really help to balance this out. Read "Vote kick for pvp" to see exactly what Zylx has stated. This can give those "pro" players a taste of how it is to face 5 nekros on another team instead of them resorting to "farming"lesser geared players. Those players know exactly who they are. Just a thought.

[Excuses]

Hiding name sound interesting for me too. Out of point but It should be as red1/red2 and gives kill to whole red team when any of red kills blue. So drama and tank pvp kill problem solved.
But This system will need a filter to pick only 2 classes of each on each side so team could be balanced. 5 tanks are stupid.

Of its gonna be same as now, there should be vote kick option. There is no other way to solve this without this.

[Doobiez]

Just leave if outmatched or keep trying too win and dont give up whining isint going to fix anything honestly winning against a gang feels good

[Appeltjes]

Yea and 1 more easy solution in addition to my post above regarding blocking.
All this time was a manual (players choice) team select. Introduce auto team select (random team selection from System itself). What will happen is as follows:
- players won't even know who their actual opponents are. They might be their friends might be enemies. So no biased pvp.
- players won't see guild tag either so no more drama
- disabled chat box will completely ignore pvp drama, trash talks or join block issues
- random team selection from system will distribute player randomly which will make blocking a myth.
- players will only get info about their kills at the end of the match Through scoreboard.

Players are easily recognizable via vanities.

[Ravager]

Players are easily recognizable via vanities.

I wouldn't mind switching vanities to throw players off. Its a small issue compared the bigger one which is the blocking.

[Ravager]

Majority boot option in the lobby or in the match?

I greatly appreciate you involving yourself in this thread G-M. I've pvp'd since it was introduced in the game and it's great to see a dev putting some effort into fixing this major issue since it is a major part of the game. When players don't want to play events, have nothing to farm, inbetween events, want to try out the new gear/pets or simply just want to PVP.

A majority boot option, as discussed previously in other threads, has its flaws. Undergeared would get immediately booted. Overgeared would get immediately booted. Dummy farm rooms to boost PVP kills would be created easier.


I understand the purpose of the suggestion, but if you remove the ability to join or even talk, you then take away people's ability to play with friends. That makes pvp a completely solo game, which holds no appeal for a lot of people. Many people play to spend time with others, not spend it essentially alone. If I wanted to be alone I would just stay offline. But at least it would get rid of jjjj spammers.

But in its current state, many are deterred from entering PVP. Including yourself? People usually gather back in kraag or windmoore and talk anyways. I still think it's worth a shot. Helps get rid of the trash talkers in PVP. Instead of chatting in pvp, have some sort of pvp button. When you press the pvp button, it reveals other buttons that are kind of like team commands or emotes, etc.

[Earlingstad]

I disagree with the vote-kick system because
1.) people would use it to troll new players and players they are not friends with.
2.)And it can be used by killfarmers for freely farming dummies.

Blockers issue can be solved by revamping pvp maps -
1.) A map for dueling 1v1.
2.) And another map for 5 vs 5 guild vs guild clashes.

[Kingofninjas]

These are interesting ideas. Do you want to replace the player name so friends can't coordinate?

We understand that STS is a business before all else, and giving uniform gear to everyone to enter the map is not profitable as then there is no reason (for PvPers) to buy plat to get the best gear. However, what can be done is this. A PvP room where players are given numbers instead of names, and a vanity that serves as a uniform for each team, so people cannot identify friends or enemies by vanity setup. Furthermore, when in said PvP room, ALL chats except the chat are inaccessible. This should include pm and guild chat. There should be a 1000-5000 gold penalty for leaving the map before 5 minutes are up. If you do not tap a skill every 30 seconds, you will get gold penalties. This will deter blockers, or at the very least ensure that they are wasting their time by blocking and don't just go afk.

Additionally, I would rather not have PvP rooms seperated by gear as I personally rather enjoy fighting arcane ring players without one myself. Nekro is another matter for another thread, but perhaps sort the mythic weapon players into the same category as arcane ring, and everyone else in a seperate category. The sorting should be done by the gear in your inventory/ stash, alts and not by currently equipped gear. This will prevent people with nekro and planar pendant from sneaking into lower tiered fights. I understand that there are ways around this, but nothing is fool proof.

[Axesam]

Ctf arena pvp is supposed to compete for the flag. But now ctf arena pvp becomes very annoying. It is full of trash talk, gang and block, and another kiddo attitude. I have solution to this issues, ikr there would be pros and cons. At least we try to find a solution to make pvp better, no more dummy farmers, no more free flag, no more gang block trash talk, etc.

CTF System now (bold is what ppl complain about)
Theres two flag in arena, blue and red
Flag position is permanent. Our flag in bottom right corner, and enemys flag position is in top left corner.
Red Team and Blue Team compete to capture enemys flag and score it
We must control our flag to capture enemy flag, its mean if both team hold flag, one flagger must died and return the flag. (blocker hold flag so we cant score to end room)
Theres 3 hp pack, 3 speed pack, and 2 mana pack. (blocker stay at hp pack)
Can stay at lobby as long as we want. (lobby blocker style)
Can out room whenever you want. (swapping player, blocker enter room, kdr lover, etc)


My idea to improve CTF system more challenge and fun
Flag appears randomly on players like vortex crystal in arena. (random players who had the flag must be score it while his team try to protect, opposite team try to kill flagger. I think ppl who hold flag wont fight with flag so they try to score as fast as they can)
Flag appears alternate between blue and red team. (it means if one team successfully score flag, next flag appear on random oppsite player. If flagger fail to score, get killed and flag return, thats advantage for the opponent)
Flag only appears in half of the opponent's area.(This is to anticipate free flagger, without this rule ppl just stay at their flag room and score it easily)
Limit time to stay at lobby, 1 minutes max, u'll kicked after that.
Death limit like in TDM, ctf automaticly end if someone killed 10 times. (So theres two choice to end room, score flag to 5 or kill someone 10 times)

134123

*Red area = Place that red flag randomly appear (blue team must be in this area to get the flag)

[davidvilla]

Players are easily recognizable via vanities.

When people r thrown randomly on either sides it's quite different. There r tons of vanities available u can easily blend in at such scenarios. Most important thing is u don't even know who actually r your opponents. No guild title, random team select , no ign, no chat box will eliminate 99% of the problem. give a try at pvp closing chat box, set ur guild tag to none, and hide all the igns. U will know how different the pvp will be.

[Serancha]

This crap never even started until season 5. Why?

- Either players had an exponentially higher maturity level prior to that, or
- it's because season 5 was when upgraded mythics happened, so nobody had anything to work for after the first week of the season. That is when all the pvp drama including blocking, started.

- People then had a good 8-9 months of boredom until the next season, so that drama escalated.

- Nothing better gear-wise was released for another 10 months (aside from crate mythics most people got in a week), early-season 7. So people remained bored.

- Then this coming expansion was announced several months before it should have been. making farming obsolete, and continuing that boredom.

Bored people create drama - known fact. They also have more time to work out exploits, cheating methods, and since they have nothing better to do, they actually waste their time doing this blocking crap.


One Solution: Make challenging (takes more than a week of effort) ap's and release them on regular basis.

Not mind-numbing rat-races like the insidious flag ap's. I mean real ap's like kill 200 (fully scaled) elite bosses. Run the arena 500 times for a mythic ingredient.

If people never do anything but pvp they lose perspective on what the game is about. Season 2 and 3 pvp were so great because people did a mix of farming and pvp, (because it was necessary to get gear - you could not get everything through locks) so didn't have their minds sucked into an all-encompassing brutality.

I know some people like to be exclusive pvp. but history shows that doing nothing else for 2 years straight leads to threads like this being necessary.

Events are not enough. Most of them people don't even run now, unless there is a good reason like getting nightshade or double chance at a fossil. But do that too often and item values drop.

In short, the game is stagnated and this is the result.

[killarrow]

Majority boot option in the lobby or in the match?


Types of blocking and some and possible solution

Lobby blocking: In lobby timer, 10,9,8...1,Kick out of the lobby.

Play Dead blocking: Dead in map timer, 10,9,8...1,Kick out the match

Alive/ hide blocking during match: Majority boot option in the match

[Oursizes]

We understand that STS is a business before all else, and giving uniform gear to everyone to enter the map is not profitable as then there is no reason (for PvPers) to buy plat to get the best gear. However, what can be done is this. A PvP room where players are given numbers instead of names, and a vanity that serves as a uniform for each team, so people cannot identify friends or enemies by vanity setup. Furthermore, when in said PvP room, ALL chats except the chat are inaccessible. This should include pm and guild chat. There should be a 1000-5000 gold penalty for leaving the map before 5 minutes are up. If you do not tap a skill every 30 seconds, you will get gold penalties. This will deter blockers, or at the very least ensure that they are wasting their time by blocking and don't just go afk.

Additionally, I would rather not have PvP rooms seperated by gear as I personally rather enjoy fighting arcane ring players without one myself. Nekro is another matter for another thread, but perhaps sort the mythic weapon players into the same category as arcane ring, and everyone else in a seperate category. The sorting should be done by the gear in your inventory/ stash, alts and not by currently equipped gear. This will prevent people with nekro and planar pendant from sneaking into lower tiered fights. I understand that there are ways around this, but nothing is fool proof.
So what if an undergear enters a room and sees a team of nekro and sns and they want to leave. Each time this happens they have to give up 1k-5k gold? May not seem like much but it adds up in the end. Assuming the rooms are the same way we have them right now.

[G-M]

Thanks for all the great posts everyone. I have to say it's so awesome to have such a great community of players who put a lot of thought and consideration into coming up with and sharing ideas to make our game better. Here's what I've got on this topic so far:


Blocking

Put a timer in the lobby and kick players who don't select a team after some amount of time. This sounds like a good idea and I don't see any obvious drawbacks. This still wouldn't prevent blocking by taking up a slot on a team.

Majority vote to kick. My concern with this one is that it could be used against players who aren't doing anything wrong but either aren't friends or don't have as good of gear or skill as their teammates. That's not fun.


Anonymous player names. This one is interesting. As others mentioned though part of the fun of PvP is playing on a team with friends and developing rivalries with other players. If all players were anonymous I fear it could remove a lot of the fun.

Remove chat. I like this idea to prevent griefing. It feels a bit heavy handed but I can't think of any other drawbacks off the top of my head. Is there any benefit to chat in PvP that I might be missing?

Gear Limits. Grouping players by gear (and probably level) sounds like a good idea. How do you think this would effect the players who like to put their best gear on their lower level characters?

Rewarding wins instead of kills. This is a great idea. Only concern would be the "instead" part. We could count wins in addition to kills. Do you think it would be overkill or unfair to remove the kills leaderboards entirely?



Did I miss any? There are more changes like the ones listed by Axesam that I need to think on more because they involve larger changes to the core PvP game mechanics. Again thanks for the great thread everyone!

[Wazakesy]

Thanks for all the great posts everyone. I have to say it's so awesome to have such a great community of players who put a lot of thought and consideration into coming up with and sharing ideas to make our game better. Here's what I've got on this topic so far:


Blocking

Put a timer in the lobby and kick players who don't select a team after some amount of time. This sounds like a good idea and I don't see any obvious drawbacks. This still wouldn't prevent blocking by taking up a slot on a team.

Majority vote to kick. My concern with this one is that it could be used against players who aren't doing anything wrong but either aren't friends or don't have as good of gear or skill as their teammates. That's not fun.


Anonymous player names. This one is interesting. As others mentioned though part of the fun of PvP is playing on a team with friends and developing rivalries with other players. If all players were anonymous I fear it could remove a lot of the fun.

Remove chat. I like this idea to prevent griefing. It feels a bit heavy handed but I can't think of any other drawbacks off the top of my head. Is there any benefit to chat in PvP that I might be missing?

Gear Limits. Grouping players by gear (and probably level) sounds like a good idea. How do you think this would effect the players who like to put their best gear on their lower level characters?

Rewarding wins instead of kills. This is a great idea. Only concern would be the "instead" part. We could count wins in addition to kills. Do you think it would be overkill or unfair to remove the kills leaderboards entirely?



Did I miss any? There are more changes like the ones listed by Axesam that I need to think on more because they involve larger changes to the core PvP game mechanics. Again thanks for the great thread everyone!

Erm, i would like to suggest the kills replacement part, i would retract the statement and instead add this.

Create a new pvp zone based on rengol style and add the wins/loses

[Ladysophie]

Imo #2,3,4 might kill the fun.
#1A,5 are great ideas.

#6 Could be new types of pvp other than the famous ctf and tdm ( example: 1vs1 or last man standing)
#7 New pvp maps.

[Serancha]

The vote kick thing would definitely be abused. You don't have a ring - kick. You don't have sns or necro - kick, you have *gasp* legendary gear...get kicked out of every room. Totally uncool.

Timer in lobby I like.

Not sure what you mean about the "putting best gear on lower level toons" question. That would just put them in a legendary / mythic category at end game. Personally I'd gear down to do this, since pvp in arcane rooms is just not fun.

Rewarding wins instead of kills - that would be one thing, but removing the 5/10k flag ap's would be a large benefit also.

The biggest issue in ctf is that guilds take up entire rooms and do nothing but free flag. 8 people stand in the middle taking up space while 2 of the group flag. You go to ctf and get called all sorts of nasty things if you dare attack anyone. This has completely destroyed ctf.

I think if anything, the wins should replace flags, not kills. Give those with 5 and 10k flags a special exclusive vanity, but the ap is ridiculous.

[G-M]

Erm, i would like to suggest the kills replacement part, i would retract the statement and instead add this.

Create a new pvp zone based on rengol style and add the wins/loses

You're saying keep the current leaderboards as-is and introduce a new map/mode that only counts wins?

[Appeltjes]

If i were sts I would've started banning people ages ago...

Ss's of 3 lobbies in a row:
134140
Only ililillil and me aren't that guild or allied to it.
134141
Once xlearnx went out they got another block in (yes actually even spamming after having trouble winning 3v4).
134142
Only inva and me aren't that guild or allied to it.
The exact same people as in the first ss but then in a diff lobby.

I believe what these people are doing means a bann in almost any other game...?

[Serancha]

This may be obvious to you, but to us they're just random pics of people in pvp. Are they free flagging or dummy farming?

Either way this is an example of why vote-kick would be bad.

[Appeltjes]

This may be obvious to you, but to us they're just random pics of people in pvp. Are they free flagging or dummy farming?

Related to the blocking issue:p, in any other game with pvp things like this will get you a bann.

[epicrrr]

Thanks for all the great posts everyone. I have to say it's so awesome to have such a great community of players who put a lot of thought and consideration into coming up with and sharing ideas to make our game better. Here's what I've got on this topic so far:


Blocking

Put a timer in the lobby and kick players who don't select a team after some amount of time. This sounds like a good idea and I don't see any obvious drawbacks. This still wouldn't prevent blocking by taking up a slot on a team.

Majority vote to kick. My concern with this one is that it could be used against players who aren't doing anything wrong but either aren't friends or don't have as good of gear or skill as their teammates. That's not fun.


Anonymous player names. This one is interesting. As others mentioned though part of the fun of PvP is playing on a team with friends and developing rivalries with other players. If all players were anonymous I fear it could remove a lot of the fun.

Remove chat. I like this idea to prevent griefing. It feels a bit heavy handed but I can't think of any other drawbacks off the top of my head. Is there any benefit to chat in PvP that I might be missing?

Gear Limits. Grouping players by gear (and probably level) sounds like a good idea. How do you think this would effect the players who like to put their best gear on their lower level characters?

Rewarding wins instead of kills. This is a great idea. Only concern would be the "instead" part. We could count wins in addition to kills. Do you think it would be overkill or unfair to remove the kills leaderboards entirely?




A timer is a good idea, though blocking is not just waiting on lobby. Just join the team and bypass the timer-kick.

Vote-kick like I have seen in so many games can easily be abused. Stay away from this one.

Anonymous player name - big NO.

Remove chat - Chat is coordination(blocking, sub, location of the enemy, spawning or not, pet usage, who-to-target, position of team rogs, response to randomg people, messages about your CS item). A chatless game/pvp is a dead game.

Items and level - People play time varries, and a given point of time not much is on if we group player by items and level then its going to be a long wait.

Wins over kills - A crucial aspect of the game isnt it too late to change this? why would STS remove kills when theres 100k+ on LB? Instead add a new category of WIN.

___

Blocking could've been easily solved when theres a preset of 2v2 3v3 4v4 5v5 rooms where we can do our clash "guild war". Only players of the same guild can join a team. Is this time-consuming to implement?

[Visiting]

A timer is a good idea, though blocking is not just waiting on lobby. Just join the team and bypass the timer-kick.

Vote-kick like I have seen in so many games can easily be abused. Stay away from this one.

Anonymous player name - big NO.

Remove chat - Chat is coordination(blocking, sub, location of the enemy, spawning or not, pet usage, who-to-target, position of team rogs, response to randomg people, messages about your CS item). A chatless game/pvp is a dead game.

Items and level - People play time varries, and a given point of time not much is on if we group player by items and level then its going to be a long wait.

Wins over kills - A crucial aspect of the game isnt it too late to change this? why would STS remove kills when theres 100k+ on LB? Instead add a new category of WIN.

___

Blocking could've been easily solved when theres a preset of 2v2 3v3 4v4 5v5 rooms where we can do our clash "guild war". Only players of the same guild can join a team. Is this time-consuming to implement?

With the Guild Clash thing, I'd rather have it custom games where you invite specific people to each team instead of having to be in the same guild to join, since not everyone is going to be in the same guilds^^

[Madnex]

Remove kills counter from CTF and the leaderboard as well, at the end of this season (just to save the work of the 2-3 people on it that haven't been dummy farming to stay on it like the rest).

Without kills to worry about, CTF will finally become about scoring flags. Adding two more flag base rooms in the same map would also be nice. And while we're at it, remove the AP from 10k flags, it's just there to prevent any newer players from ever catching up to the current LB spot holders that have farmed their flags five times faster/easier with the previous flagging system.

[epicrrr]

With the Guild Clash thing, I'd rather have it custom games where you invite specific people to each team instead of having to be in the same guild to join, since not everyone is going to be in the same guilds^^

Yeah custom room is good, I guess they could use the /partyinvite command to designate someone to be locked in you team- they probably can make a new NPC for this.

[Serancha]

Remove kills counter from CTF and the leaderboard as well, at the end of this season (just to save the work of the 2-3 people on it that haven't been dummy farming to stay on it like the rest).

Without kills to worry about, CTF will finally become about scoring flags. Adding two more flag base rooms in the same map would also be nice. And while we're at it, remove the AP from 10k flags, it's just there to prevent any newer players from ever catching up to the current LB spot holders that have farmed their flags five times faster/easier with the previous flagging system.

So make ctf totally about free flagging, even more than it already is? The problem isn't about people killing too much in ctf, it's about the bloody free flaggers that think they have a right to flag unhindered. Remove the flag ap's and make it about playing the game.

[Madnex]

So make ctf totally about free flagging, even more than it already is? The problem isn't about people killing too much in ctf, it's about the bloody free flaggers that think they have a right to flag unhindered. Remove the flag ap's and make it about playing the game.
That would not work. Who would bother playing if you remove both kills' and flags' counter? People need an incentive to play the map. When killing someone is no longer rewarding (which is logical, in a Capture The Flag game), scoring flags will be the only goal. So the "flagging no kill" excuse will not hold since the rest of the people in the room are there for the very same thing.

[Serancha]

,
That would not work. Who would bother playing if you remove both kills' and flags' counter? People need an incentive to play the map. When killing someone is no longer rewarding (which is logical, in a Capture The Flag game), scoring flags will be the only goal. So the "flagging no kill" excuse will not hold since the rest of the people in the room are there for the very same thing.

I meant keep the kills counter and replace flag count with games won. Then it would still be pvp, not just free flag fest.

I fail to see how taking away kills would fix the problem of nobody being allowed to kill anyone in ctf because it's become all about those ridiculous aps. All it would do is move dummy farmers to tdm.

Edit: Is there a way to do a trial run - like maybe 3 weeks - of pvp without chat capabilities? It would help with both the team stacking and 'calling people in to block' issues. Sure they could use alts outside the game, but at least it would cut down on the issues.

[twoxc]

Yea I agree.

Just remove Flag AP and Replace it with Game Win Count with no AP. People will kill and fight to flag to win because now it serve a purpose and everyone wanna win and of course that positive KDWR=Kill-Death-Win-Ratio for guild leaderboard.

[Excuses]

[LIST=1]
Blocking
[LIST]
Put a timer in the lobby and kick players who don't select a team after some amount of time. This sounds like a good idea and I don't see any obvious drawbacks. This still wouldn't prevent blocking by taking up a slot on a team.



I want to mention a couple of things about this.
I like to stay in lobby in some situations.
1. When there are more than 2 blocks on other side. It's gang for me.
2. When my team's Blocker is high lvl. It's suicide.
3. Most importantly, because I don't want to block and waiting to join my team with a hope of opening spot there.

If staying lobby will kick me, I will have to literally block. Then I will have to maybe stay death. Same blocking. This will not change anything. People can use dummy to do this too.

Either you should change whole system of pvp, or need vote kick for blocking.



Some people will not like Guild pvp room because some guilds have many allies or they are in pve focused guild.

I rather want to see limit of same class on one side.
5 tanks or more than 3 mages are annoying at some lvl. This should be limited by 2 or at least 3. (2 for tdm maybe.)


I deeply appreciate for looking at this again. Pvp need some change for blockers.

[Wazakesy]

You're saying keep the current leaderboards as-is and introduce a new map/mode that only counts wins?

yes, if the K/D was replaced, i wouldnt want to see players loose their kills they had earned over time...

also....the -25% debuff from axe throw is a bit high in pvp.

[Axesam]

Yea I agree.

Just remove Flag AP and Replace it with Game Win Count with no AP. People will kill and fight to flag to win because now it serve a purpose and everyone wanna win and of course that positive KDWR=Kill-Death-Win-Ratio for guild leaderboard.

With flag system atm (2 flag) its possible for both team hold flag at the same time. Problem is when your opponent hold flag and drop it (out room suicide) in hidden place (in the corner of spawn area for example), or some newbie hold flag and just walking around tryin to score it, imagine how stressfull we r tryin to find our flag, touch n return itso we can score and win while your enemy keep attacking u bcoz u hold their flag.

My idea is solid, just make flag randomly appear like crystal vortex in arena.

[Serancha]

I want to mention a couple of things about this.
I like to stay in lobby in some situations.
1. When there are more than 2 blocks on other side. It's gang for me.
2. When my team's Blocker is high lvl. It's suicide.
3. Most importantly, because I don't want to block and waiting to join my team with a hope of opening spot there.

If staying lobby will kick me, I will have to literally block. Then I will have to maybe stay death. Same blocking. This will not change anything. People can use dummy to do this too.

Either you should change whole system of pvp, or need vote kick for blocking.



Some people will not like Guild pvp room because some guilds have many allies or they are in pve focused guild.

I rather want to see limit of same class on one side.
5 tanks or more than 3 mages are annoying at some lvl. This should be limited by 2 or at least 3. (2 for tdm maybe.)


I deeply appreciate for looking at this again. Pvp need some change for blockers.


I don't get this. Staying in the lobby is blocking, period. If you see people in the room that would gang you, or that the room has blocks in it, leave and find another game. It's pretty simple.

[Titanium]

Events are not enough. Most of them people don't even run now, unless there is a good reason like getting nightshade or double chance at a fossil. But do that too often and item values drop.

This ! I'm not a huge fan of gauntlet and to be honest i don't know what that event really is but for what i have seen... People are running for a banner? I am here for those crazy loots. We should have more frequent events than gauntlet. Already the third edition? How many events who pays of we had last year?

Goblin event was in Arlor for 5 seconds and then was Elondrian ( very nice ) , Halloween ( nice ) , Winter ( didn't play on that one but those vanities are looking weird.. weird like i don't need one ). Let's have Ursoth for 3 editions in the next 12 months. I know that's not possible but let's do something in AL better than waiting for screenshot leaks. How about that? Let's have more events + 2x farming loots.

Oh you guys were talking about pvp. My bad... But let's gear up first before we go there. Let's get some goods by farming so we can defend ourselves. I pvped last week for one hour.. It was fun. I was ganged 5v1 , 3v1 doesn't matter. I mean.. that was cool. I have exp bow... and they had nekros and rings. Well they had a pretty solid team playing to snipe me out but i still got 1:1 ratio after i left that room. That says a lot who pvps nowadays. Back when i was in Karma I had this rule . If I am alone in pvp and I got ganged and nobody joins me. I would just leave and move in tdm and come back in ctf later on. PvP is about who runs more and to have a little knowledge to defend himself/herself out there. It's not about versus ! "Cmon nub rogue , versus me ! Let's go in the red spawn and versus to see who's the best from the best" .Yea, like i would even care!


Be a Mayweather in PvP not a Pacquiao !

[Mouly]

Maybe a bit off-topic, but why not add an unranked PVP mode where kills and deaths are not added to your kdr?

[Ardbeg]

[LIST]


Rewarding wins instead of kills. This is a great idea. Only concern would be the "instead" part. We could count wins in addition to kills. Do you think it would be overkill or unfair to remove the kills leaderboards entirely?





imho the rewarding of kills instead of wins is (together with the flagging ap) not only the reason why no one plays real ctf as intended, it is also the reason for a lot of perceived class imbalances, since no class kills faster then rogues. the changes in the flagging rules only made it harder for the current player generation to achieve that goal. i think it is very well worth considering to replace these aps with a system which promotes team efforts.

(yes, i would play real ctf for fun, no i would never flag for lb, too boring)

[Ravager]

Thanks for all the great posts everyone. I have to say it's so awesome to have such a great community of players who put a lot of thought and consideration into coming up with and sharing ideas to make our game better. Here's what I've got on this topic so far:


Blocking

Put a timer in the lobby and kick players who don't select a team after some amount of time. This sounds like a good idea and I don't see any obvious drawbacks. This still wouldn't prevent blocking by taking up a slot on a team.

Majority vote to kick. My concern with this one is that it could be used against players who aren't doing anything wrong but either aren't friends or don't have as good of gear or skill as their teammates. That's not fun.


Anonymous player names. This one is interesting. As others mentioned though part of the fun of PvP is playing on a team with friends and developing rivalries with other players. If all players were anonymous I fear it could remove a lot of the fun.

Remove chat. I like this idea to prevent griefing. It feels a bit heavy handed but I can't think of any other drawbacks off the top of my head. Is there any benefit to chat in PvP that I might be missing?

Gear Limits. Grouping players by gear (and probably level) sounds like a good idea. How do you think this would effect the players who like to put their best gear on their lower level characters?

Rewarding wins instead of kills. This is a great idea. Only concern would be the "instead" part. We could count wins in addition to kills. Do you think it would be overkill or unfair to remove the kills leaderboards entirely?



Did I miss any? There are more changes like the ones listed by Axesam that I need to think on more because they involve larger changes to the core PvP game mechanics. Again thanks for the great thread everyone!

I wouldn't mind just seeing the names of the players at the end. I love the idea for wins. Possibly remove the kills. That will stop the dummy farm rooms. Gear limits. I'm not sure what to think of this. On one hand, more people would possibly pvp but on the other hand, the market will have less of a demand for top end gear.

Could you add the option to go from TDM -> World Map -> CTF and vice versa? I hate going to pvp, finding the room is totally empty and want to check the other pvp room but i have to jump to world map, to a town/pve zone, other pvp map.

Been waiting a few seasons for PVP fixes/changes. Can't wait!

[Serancha]

Dummy farmers would just move to TDM. The issue in ctf is the flag ap. If you have no kill count, and have flags and wins that mean something, people would just put an alt on one team, and the other team run the flag until they "win". Of course some may do this anyways, but having flags counting for 2 things just means that will be all CTF is. It needs to be kills and games, not flags and games. Either that or remove all CTF ap's and make it just games won.

[davidvilla]

Sts can u guys do something about this auto tap recorder? This is very annoying as people using third party application for pvp purpose (blocking or fast join ) without any effort. This might be a small issue but it does affect the gameplay.

[Axesam]

Dummy farmers would just move to TDM. The issue in ctf is the flag ap. If you have no kill count, and have flags and wins that mean something, people would just put an alt on one team, and the other team run the flag until they "win". Of course some may do this anyways, but having flags counting for 2 things just means that will be all CTF is. It needs to be kills and games, not flags and games. Either that or remove all CTF ap's and make it just games won.

That wont happen if flag appears randomly on players like vortex crystal in arena and flag appears alternate between blue and red team.

[Excuses]

I don't get this. Staying in the lobby is blocking, period. If you see people in the room that would gang you, or that the room has blocks in it, leave and find another game. It's pretty simple.

I'm talking about twink. This doesn't happen much in end game.
Yes, I'm blocking. Because my team already a Blocker/blockers in their side too. I'm blocking in lobby waiting for a Blocker in my team side to leave or DC so I can actually help my team.

If you don't understand, I won't bother explain more.
But my point is this will not do any change for blocking.

Also saying 'If you see people in the room that would gang you, or that the room has blocks in it, leave and find another game' will not change blocking too. That's one of excuses for blockers.

[Wazakesy]

Hiding names: Player X doubts player Y on the opposite team as a friend, so player X does "/t Xqwz u on the opposite side??"....maybe this could create a recognition
However, this can be countered with the boot option?

[Zynzyn]

Kills and Deaths should not be removed. A lot of players (besides the occasional dummykiller) who have been playing since a long time, worked on actually playing the game and getting their kills. Deaths are important for a player, as in, the death score makes a player want to avoid dying, making him more competitive and making him want to improve his skills/gear/pets. Thats what a game is about - being a ladder, from one rung to another. Without a loss, a win isnt much fun. Both kills and deaths are needed to keep the player interested. I am not on the LB. That does not mean I will cry "'sour grapes" ruin the fun for others.

For those of us who do not have as many kills as consistent killers, I would suggest as I have suggested in old 2014 threads, replace the individual "goals/flag scores" with "team wins". CTF is a team game, and the score for ctf should, apart from Kill-death-ratio, also have a CTF win/loss ratio. As I had suggested before in a very old post, anonymity for players (naming players as player 1,2,3 etc) can also limit blocking/ganging to an extent. But introducing a new Leaderboard page for Ctf winners is optional. Even team wins can be fabricated by putting yourself in one team and your dummies in the opposite team and farming wins.

So that brings us to the main issue, that issue which also contributes to the BLOCKING problem - the "join" button. Joining a ctf room from guild and friendlist should be disabled to solve this. So then how can we join friends to play together? Party with them. A party with a limited number of players, although does not completely erase the possibility of blocking, will atleast reduce the occurrence or limit it to an extent. If I may allow myself to dream, I would say that disabling the join button will diminish the need for pvp-only guilds and their ganging, drama, blocking will be reduced, making matches occur more often between random players. A timer in the lobby is also a good solution.

NO to vote-boot system. Thats food for trolls.

[Ravager]

Kills and Deaths should not be removed. A lot of players (besides the occasional dummykiller) who have been playing since a long time, worked on actually playing the game and getting their kills. Deaths are important for a player, as in, the death score makes a player want to avoid dying, making him more competitive and making him want to improve his skills/gear/pets. Thats what a game is about - being a ladder, from one rung to another. Without a loss, a win isnt much fun. Both kills and deaths are needed to keep the player interested. I am not on the LB. That does not mean I will cry "'sour grapes" ruin the fun for others.

For those of us who do not have as many kills as consistent killers, I would suggest as I have suggested in old 2014 threads, replace the individual "goals/flag scores" with "team wins". CTF is a team game, and the score for ctf should, apart from Kill-death-ratio, also have a CTF win/loss ratio. As I had suggested before in a very old post, anonymity for players (naming players as player 1,2,3 etc) can also limit blocking/ganging to an extent. But introducing a new Leaderboard page for Ctf winners is optional. Even team wins can be fabricated by putting yourself in one team and your dummies in the opposite team and farming wins.

So that brings us to the main issue, that issue which also contributes to the BLOCKING problem - the "join" button. Joining a ctf room from guild and friendlist should be disabled to solve this. So then how can we join friends to play together? Party with them. A party with a limited number of players, although does not completely erase the possibility of blocking, will atleast reduce the occurrence or limit it to an extent. If I may allow myself to dream, I would say that disabling the join button will diminish the need for pvp-only guilds and their ganging, drama, blocking will be reduced, making matches occur more often between random players. A timer in the lobby is also a good solution.

NO to vote-boot system. Thats food for trolls.

In regards to the kills and deaths being removed, im moreso interested in the kills being removed from leaderboard. The warrior kills leaderboard is flooded with dummy farmers that have knocked off majority of the legit pvp players. I tried to keep up, playing every day and accepting lots of clash invites but I came nowhere close to the numbers needed to maintain my spot on ctf kills lb. The kills and deaths can still stay on the avatar screen and the user can still sit and stare at it if they choose to. But the kills leaderboard in ctf creates the dummy farming and demotivates many warriors to strive for one of the major categories in ctf. Its another reason I know lots of warriors from season 2 I know jumped class.

[Sfubi]

Add boot option to a players inspect window. Once three different people click boot in map, the player is automatically teleported to a holding cell for ? Minutes. When their timeoit is up they can go anywhere they choose.

This would help with those toons that intentionally die in hauntlet to take advantage of the green pool token bug. Or those that just follow behind just close enough to get experience/loot but never help clear a map.

Will peeps take advantage of this and gang boot? You betcha. But maybe that will make people be a little nicer in the long run.

[Oursizes]

Add boot option to a players inspect window. Once three different people click boot in map, the player is automatically teleported to a holding cell for ? Minutes. When their timeoit is up they can go anywhere they choose.

This would help with those toons that intentionally die in hauntlet to take advantage of the green pool token bug. Or those that just follow behind just close enough to get experience/loot but never help clear a map.

Will peeps take advantage of this and gang boot? You betcha. But maybe that will make people be a little nicer in the long run.

Think of it this way. New expansion,new and difficult bosses, better loot. You and your pt reaches boss, they boot you cause theres a stronger dps asking for a pt. So they kill boss and that other dps takes your loot? Seems pretty fair right? Let me tell you something. In this world, not many people care about being nice. They care about getting the nice things. Thats game mentality as well. You really think this will make people nicer in the long run?

[Zynzyn]

After the recent update I think the blocking problem is solved somewhat because one can no longer spam the Join button as after clicking Join once and failing that page has to be re-clicked and brought up, thus creating a situation which encourages matches to be between random players. Blocking is not totally solved but reduced to a great extent with this little change.