This could make PVP fun again for everyone

[Oezheasate]

Hey Everyone,

Now first of all all credits go to shinytoy, GM for his interest in the issue showing clearly that our fun in the game is important to him and all the other posters on the thread, I just felt that his thread has reached a stage where everyone should get involved not only those that browse through the AL PVP forum.

Bear in mind that its so long because im basically putting two pages of comments and posts with good suggestions in one.
K/D means Kill/Death.

The link to shinytoy's thread is at the bottom of this post however below I wrote some sort of a resume, that will hopefully give you enough of an idea what the current issues are. If its possible I would like to ask you to comment on this thread so that more players see it, therefore not only those looking through the AL PVP forum will have a say in it but all of the players.

In my opinion the more people get involved the more brains we have to work on this.

Problems raised by shinytoy

-K/D ratio lovers gang prey on the weak etc. and basically do everything to keep those kills rolling in.
-Fair players get more and more annoyed with PVP
-Newbies dont dare enter for fear of being farmed like the Jarl for kills.

Shinytoys idea was to introduce a map were players would be grouped according to their K/D ratio.

Problems raised by GM

-Would smurfing be a problem?
-Would people either create alts to beat up on lower level players
-People deliberately tank their KDR to continue fighting against weaker competition
-A leaderboard for wins could introduce the problem of smurfing
-Would your KDR reset when a season changes or persist across seasons?
-This change would be extremely disruptive to the current PvP, it could be so drastic as to completely change the game.
-If this is implemented for just one map would players want to play that map
-Wouldn't that just segregate the PvP players even more
-If a reward system for fighting against weaker and stronger opponets where to be introduced how would we adjust this for our top players who have worked very hard for their kills.

The solutions to those problems written by me but basing some of thosel ideas on what I've read in the below posted link.

-Using morgys idea of ranks we dont allow players that are much better in the k/d ratio, the k/d ratio being what defines your rank, to kill newbies or unskilled and undergeared players, they can still fight them and "kill" them but the kill wont count to their stats.

-The difference in K/D ratio that decides when the kill will be counted or not, is something that would need to be defined but its doable.

-Gangers would be discouraged to keep ganging as those kills for their k/d ratio wont count once they pass a certain difference of k/d ratio in comparison to their victims and therefore will be ganging with no purpose.

-Due to a reduced fear of significantly worsening your K/D ratio a more tactical aspect would be introduced to PVP

-K/D ratio map still necessary, as top players want to have the opportunity to be in maps where they play against their own and the same goes for not yet so good players.

-A K/D ratio map would also make it easier for players that want to increase their kill count as they neednt worry about encountering someone in pvp that they cant kill.

-Introducing a global K/D count and a seasonal K/D count that will both be viewable, so as to give everyone a chance for the leaderboard vanity.

- K/D ratio map should only be an option, not the only map

-After some time players with similar gear and similar gear will be grouped into the same K/D ratio maps due to the resetting of Seasonal Kill count

-In normal maps players will still encounter others that have a much better or much worse K/D ratio but with the above mentioned system it wouldn't push the weaker one to quit the map as his deaths wouldn't count

-By enjoying PVP with this system, Newbies will get experience and learn to fight better and their k/d ratio will improve and we will be basically gaining many more players for pvp.

-Pro players that have bad K/D ratio and would like to fight those that only kill Newbies will have the opportunity to do so eventually at latest with the resetting of the Seasonal K/D ratio, if a K/D ratio map were to be introduced.

-For those top players who have a very high legitimate k/d ratio the solution would be the point where the ranks system would come in to play, after a certain difference in k/d ratio players will get put into some kind of champions rank, at which point a player gets into such a rank would have to be still pondered upon.

-Needs to be the point where it becomes obvious that players who have surpassed a certain K/D ratio number are very skilled and geared and therefore could be put into that top rank.

-This would serve players like ruthien and enterradora that have a K/D of over 30 to be reunited whith players of lets say a K/D ratio of 7 in the same rank, so those top top players dont get left alone, applicable in my opinion to the K/D ratio map aswell as to the rank in which they still get kills.

-The figures ive given are in no way accurate, just random numbers, the Devs have a much better idea as to which K/D ratio numbers could be grouped together.

I in no way mean to breach the rules of this forum and if I do in this post please notify me and remember I did so unkowingly.

Here the link to the thread if you wish to see the rest of the comments,
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?232739-KDR-based-map/page2

I have tried to make it as structured as possible to have a better reading experience and I hope you found it interesting. :)

Cheers,
Oez.

[Oezheasate]

Reserved for any changes

[Anabrad]

way to long

[Maunyabastian]

For the lazy readers:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?232739-KDR-based-map

You're welcome.

[Oezheasate]

way to long

I just couldt figure out how else to get it transferred to general

[Farminer's]

So long dang read most of it. Ok here are my thoughts. Why not implement a new system where for every kill you get depending on opponent KDR you get a certain amount of points and a kill. The kills stay the same. Now lower the KDR less points you get better the KDR you kill more points you get. This would make people go after the dummy farmers,hangers,spawn campers... Etc now wouldn't this cause a problem with people dummy using to get good KDR and then kill themselves for points? Most likely. We will have to figure something to stop that but otherwise that should stop most of it.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

[Oezheasate]

Ok I'll do the following, I'll shorten it and try to make an easy to read post taking all of the ideas in

[merch_master]

While the ideas are all well and good, i doubt any major changes will be done to PvP in Arcane legends for the simple reason STS has a new moba coming out. So having a complete new PvP based game launch , enhancing our own pvp would do their new game more harm then good.
In my mind, AL is their mmorpg( PVE concentrated) , CoC their moba ( PvP concentrated) and hence, i doubt if new pvp elements will be added to AL

[Oezheasate]

I changed the post and tried to make it shorter still working on it though.

[Oezheasate]

While the ideas are all well and good, i doubt any major changes will be done to PvP in Arcane legends for the simple reason STS has a new moba coming out. So having a complete new PvP based game launch , enhancing our own pvp would do their new game more harm then good.
In my mind, AL is their mmorpg( PVE concentrated) , CoC their moba ( PvP concentrated) and hence, i doubt if new pvp elements will be added to AL

I doubt that AL has an interest in keeping their PVP system as broken as it is right now, furthermore if this were true the Devs wouldnt have taken as much interest in the post as can be clearly seen if you click on the link provided at the end of the first post of this thread. They know that they are losing a lot of good players which are disappointed by the PVP system and dont want to farm PVE anymore. Letting PVP in AL be broken just to have the hopes that they'll switch to their other PVP games and start there everything from scratch again is a risk that i doubt anyone would be willing to take.

[Oezheasate]

BTW what would you guys think about PVP experience levels that progress with your kills but still are bound to the rules proposed in the first post mentioned rules? That perhaps could help which lvl can kill which lvl?

[enzpoy]

May i note something? Kdr is not the point in pvp. How can you have fun even if ur kdr is not changed but when you go out the safe zone a gang is waiting to kill you?

[Oursizes]

I doubt that AL has an interest in keeping their PVP system as broken as it is right now, furthermore if this were true the Devs wouldnt have taken as much interest in the post as can be clearly seen if you click on the link provided at the end of the first post of this thread. They know that they are losing a lot of good players which are disappointed by the PVP system and dont want to farm PVE anymore. Letting PVP in AL be broken just to have the hopes that they'll switch to their other PVP games and start there everything from scratch again is a risk that i doubt anyone would be willing to take.

By releasing the new expansion and letting players farm arcanes they are sort of balancing out pvp. This means fewer plat buyers running with nekro just spamming the aa. Now everyone has a chance to compete if they work for it

[Oezheasate]

That Nekro will become farmable is great, but none of the issues Shinytoy, GM and many others raised will be solved by this, it will just produce more OP rogues with Nekro and a bit more competition in the higher ranks that's it. I'm still very excited for it but it will only have a minor impact on PVP, ganging will keep going, etc. As I said it will only make a difference in PVP for the one percent and the rest will still keep away from PVP as they'll only get farmed and ganged.

[Disproves]

What about a option to reset kd each season?

[Edward Coug]

What about a option to reset kd each season?

What about an option to hide your K/D? So you can see who cares and who doesn't.

[Oezheasate]

What about a option to reset kd each season?

Such an option has been adressed in the thread i wrote, if you dont mind read through it and tell me what you think about the idea for resetting the K/D ratio in the way that is described in the thread. I welcome and am grateful for any constructive criticism.

[kona]

well i dont agree with this KDR thingy.
1) What about players who created new alt and has OP gears and has 0/0 KDR.Who will they join? will they have to wait for someone with same kdr to join?
2) Ganging and farming could be stopped if players had self respect. even OP geared players gang :/
3) Lets not make KDR a big deal...like having a special lb list...it will not make anything better.
4) 5k&10k pvp flags and kills ap should be removed.


Solution i think can help better pvp in game

Lets says there are tiers in pvp maps...like tier 1 has rogues with this&this dmg and crit, tanks with this&this health and armour,mages with this &this dmg and mana. teir 2 has more of all corresponding stats and so on. Now how to play in different tiers? We will consider only base stats( i mean only stats without pet ).When in pvp map,u cant change gears and it will remain same entire match. so u can just adjust ur gears to play at different tier.I dont think this is the best solution but tell me what u think about this

[Oezheasate]

well i dont agree with this KDR thingy.
1) What about players who created new alt and has OP gears and has 0/0 KDR.Who will they join? will they have to wait for someone with same kdr to join?
2) Ganging and farming could be stopped if players had self respect. even OP geared players gang :/
3) Lets not make KDR a big deal...like having a special lb list...it will not make anything better.
4) 5k&10k pvp flags and kills ap should be removed.


Solution i think can help better pvp in game

Lets says there are tiers in pvp maps...like tier 1 has rogues with this&this dmg and crit, tanks with this&this health and armour,mages with this &this dmg and mana. teir 2 has more of all corresponding stats and so on. Now how to play in different tiers? We will consider only base stats( i mean only stats without pet ).When in pvp map,u cant change gears and it will remain same entire match. so u can just adjust ur gears to play at different tier.I dont think this is the best solution but tell me what u think about this

Hey, here my answers to your questions hope they help you.
1.) K/D ration is calculated by dividing the kills through the deaths, 1k kill /1k deaths equals K/D ratio of 1, so those with 0kills and 0 deaths would be placed with those that have a K/D ratio of 1 i think
2.) Thats the thing with us humans we arent perfect, but the K/D ratio system could very well stop ganging
3.) Having a seasonal LB would increase the fun for players because they dont care for their kills as in the next season it will be resetted anyway
4.) No because you would be laughing at the effort of all those players that have gained that ap.
Hmm the tier thing isnt a bad idea, with preset stats and equipment, but then again if you do it that all the warrs from 5.5k-6.5k health and 1.8k to 2.0k armor get grouped together you would have very skilled players that dont have good gear and will be always facing weaker players while they could be defeating players with better gesr but less skill.

[kona]

Hey, here my answers to your questions hope they help you.
1.) K/D ration is calculated by dividing the kills through the deaths, 1k kill /1k deaths equals K/D ratio of 1, so those with 0kills and 0 deaths would be placed with those that have a K/D ratio of 1 i think
2.) Thats the thing with us humans we arent perfect, but the K/D ratio system could very well stop ganging
3.) Having a seasonal LB would increase the fun for players because they dont care for their kills as in the next season it will be resetted anyway
4.) No because you would be laughing at the effort of all those players that have gained that ap.
Hmm the tier thing isnt a bad idea, with preset stats and equipment, but then again if you do it that all the warrs from 5.5k-6.5k health and 1.8k to 2.0k armor get grouped together you would have very skilled players that dont have good gear and will be always facing weaker players while they could be defeating players with better gesr but less skill.

reply to ur reply
3) How do we reset KDR? only deaths will get 0? or kills too? is this also going to apply for pve?
4) I understand the only reason not to remove these aps would be for the players who played honest and for their hard work and effort but still think about it.would removing them will not make it better?

Now i m still in support for tier thingy....
a) if grouping is balanced then should it be a problem? and the point of teir system to balance players according to stats
b)if plalyers are grouped according to stats it seems more like fairplay. the only thing that could stop u from winning is team coordination,pets,builds,timing,lag.
a)this also creates more competition...say i m a tier 3 player but everyone are coming with nekro so i want to play at lower tier. so i could change my gear, like rogues could shift from dex/dmg equips to int/str equips...so overrall players would have think more than just dmg and crit.

[Oezheasate]

reply to ur reply
3) How do we reset KDR? only deaths will get 0? or kills too? is this also going to apply for pve?
4) I understand the only reason not to remove these aps would be for the players who played honest and for their hard work and effort but still think about it.would removing them will not make it better?

Now i m still in support for tier thingy....
a) if grouping is balanced then should it be a problem? and the point of teir system to balance players according to stats
b)if plalyers are grouped according to stats it seems more like fairplay. the only thing that could stop u from winning is team coordination,pets,builds,timing,lag.
a)this also creates more competition...say i m a tier 3 player but everyone are coming with nekro so i want to play at lower tier. so i could change my gear, like rogues could shift from dex/dmg equips to int/str equips...so overrall players would have think more than just dmg and crit.

Hey some pretty good points you raise so I'll answer the easier part first ^.^
3) The seasonal kills and deaths u have gotten will reset although i think there should still be a global k/d count where you can see all of em.
4.)Removing them is not the solution in my opinion as people would still care about their K/D ratio and keep on farming. The solution would be to restrict those you can kill and those you cant by separating them through K/D ratio which seems the most efficient system till now.

As for the tier thing there is one major problem with it, there are simply not enough people playing PVP to be able to introduce such a tier thing. Already different lvls get grouped together because there arent enough people playing PVP. You would wait 20 mins to get one CTF map opened

[kona]

Hey some pretty good points you raise so I'll answer the easier part first ^.^
3) The seasonal kills and deaths u have gotten will reset although i think there should still be a global k/d count where you can see all of em.
4.)Removing them is not the solution in my opinion as people would still care about their K/D ratio and keep on farming. The solution would be to restrict those you can kill and those you cant by separating them through K/D ratio which seems the most efficient system till now.

As for the tier thing there is one major problem with it, there are simply not enough people playing PVP to be able to introduce such a tier thing. Already different lvls get grouped together because there arent enough people playing PVP. You would wait 20 mins to get one CTF map opened

3) if there is special kdr for season then it seem alright
4) i guess u r right about this.

Well u r saying not enough players are pvping, maybe because they always get killed by high geared players and they know they dont have chance when they killed within 1 sec while some players dont like pvping. people may start pvping because they know the player is having similar stats. i have seen in game when all pvp players in a match have legendary gears,say tdm, it usually ends with 18-20 same when both teams have mythics.

[Antaponte]

I myself have really come to have issues with the KDR . I think that KDR should be moderated . If someone is known for having 1000 deaths and 0 kills . they should not be allowed in PVP arenas , obviously because they are dummy toons to build KDRs. i have seen numerous times lately, toons with no gear on what so ever . running around dying in TDM . there will be 3-4 charecters strickly set up so that the opposing team , which usually dual box the charecters , can rack up kills . This makes a charecter look like there great at pvp when in reality there horrible . Yet they still get there names posted on the leader boards for kills when there only kill spamming dummy toons .

[bedmaster]

why not making a stat based maps much more simple xD

[Oezheasate]

A stat based map in itself doesnt sound like a bad idea, the only problem we'd have is, there simply arent enough pvp players as it is, so if we create another map they would get spread even further apart, the idea with the K/D ratio would still be efficient and wouldnt make all players have to wait for long to get those maps filled

[Oezheasate]

So yeah nothing is going to happen i guess, devs too busy with expansion and this means people with less than 50mio gear can stay in pve and keep away from pvp till they get rich enough or bored of the game.