Warriors are hugely underpowered?

[MAlandM]

Hi,
Currently, I'm feeling that warriors are hugely underpowered as they are melee, their dps is really low (200 max dps without rage), and all they are useful for in my opinion is tanking. A different class like an archer has high dps (up to 300dps) and are ranged. They are extremely powerful. Enchantresses also have quite a high dps (up to 250) and have about the best skills. Enchantresses are also ranged.

The strange thing is, and also leads to my question, warriors are good at PvP, in fact, they are the best in PvP, is what I have heard from many people.

My question is, how? They have such a big disadvantage. How can they possibly be the best in PvP? I would like to know.

Thanks,
~Malandm (proud member of the Dungeon Defenders Forums ;) )

[Echelong]

Man I got owns today by Elly on his warrior so I don't think they are underpowered in any way. Birds still seem to do pretty well in pvp and so do paladins and dex mages I haven't tried pure int but my guess is that they can do pretty decent.

[KaotiicxDream]

@Echelong,
Ellyidol is really good to play as bear.. And he is using bows .. He posted a screenshot in his Bow Bear guide with 367 dps.. It's just about going some other ways than pure builds ..

[Conradin]

you are talking about low lvl stuff. as you get higher, the classes seem to even out, and you can equip any item on any class if your stats right. But yes, warriors are underpowered

[Echelong]

@Echelong,
Ellyidol is really good to play as bear.. And he is using bows .. He posted a screenshot in his Bow Bear guide with 367 dps.. It's just about going some other ways than pure builds ..

He killed me with both str and dex gear and he was easier to kill with dex lol but if he caught you first you where done.

[Ellyidol]

I wouldn't say hugely. Probably at a disadvantage, but doesn't mean they're underpowered :)

Ech is exaggerating, he didn't mention how many times I died too. :p

[Lesrider]

Elly, aren't you a dex bear?

[Ellyidol]

Dual. Hehe.

[xxEcHoxx]

@Echelong,
Ellyidol is really good to play as bear.. And he is using bows .. He posted a screenshot in his Bow Bear guide with 367 dps.. It's just about going some other ways than pure builds ..

How come mages and bird can go pure and rule pvp and pve but in order to be a successful bear u gotta split ur stats? Pure str bear sux IMO with that terrible hit. Just don't seem fair to me..

[Ellyidol]

How come mages and bird can go pure and rule pvp and pve but in order to be a successful bear u gotta split ur stats? Pure str bear sux IMO with that terrible hit. Just don't seem fair to me..

Another reason right here why we're at a disadvantage from the get go :)

Pure Int Mages / Pure Dex Birds have their primary stat maxed for higher skill damage, dual spec bears don't. Though I have to check how much the difference is, it's definitely lower.

[MAlandM]

Well, apparently pure bears "own" PvP... Can anyone answer why is that?
I saw this guy (pure str bear lv56 fortified set) and he had like 3000 kills and 50 deaths or so. He said that after the update PvP was much easier to do with a bear but he didn't explain why... I know that. They are underpowered, the reason for why I'm saying they are "hugely" underpowered is because they have low dps, they are melee. The only good thing about them is that they have high health and armour... But how is that useful in PvP when your opponent is so strong that he/she can get past your armour and take out your health real quick?

By the way, by "Warriors" I mean pure STR bears. Otherwise they wouldn't be so much of a warrior but an archer (such as a dex bear).

Thanks for the responses so far!

[Ellyidol]

Well, apparently pure bears "own" PvP... Can anyone answer why is that?
I saw this guy (pure str bear lv56 fortified set) and he had like 3000 kills and 50 deaths or so. He said that after the update PvP was much easier to do with a bear but he didn't explain why... I know that. They are underpowered, the reason for why I'm saying they are "hugely" underpowered is because they have low dps, they are melee. The only good thing about them is that they have high health and armour... But how is that useful in PvP when your opponent is so strong that he/she can get past your armour and take out your health real quick?

By the way, by "Warriors" I mean pure STR bears. Otherwise they wouldn't be so much of a warrior but an archer (such as a dex bear).

Thanks for the responses so far!

What was his name?

Even the really good bears I know, Fabio, TSS, and Toughie, they all have dex, none of them are pure strength.

It's really really unlikely that a pure strength would have that K/D, especially since pure strength would have like 65% Hit?

[MAlandM]

I'm pure strength.. I have 77% hit...
His name was Tankaar or something like that.

[Ellyidol]

Oh, forgot to mention. 65 comes from no Hit from gear.

What gear are you using? And yeah, I've fought Tank. We never ended. Lol

[MAlandM]

I'm using... Something I cannot remember (<<not the name of the gear)... But all I know is that its awesome. It gives me about 39 armour, 666 health I THINK (weird), 115 dps, 9 h/s. Those are what I last remember. I'm currently wearing all pinks. Any suggestions on getting gold ready for when I'm at a higher level?

[Ellyidol]

I'm using... Something I cannot remember (<<not the name of the gear)... But all I know is that its awesome. It gives me about 39 armour, 666 health I THINK (weird), 115 dps, 9 h/s. Those are what I last remember. I'm currently wearing all pinks. Any suggestions on getting gold ready for when I'm at a higher level?

What level are you? :)

Because AFAIK, a pure str bear in all 55 str pinks will have only 65ish Hit, that's why you need dex to pvp well.

[AbsolutePally]

Bears do not own pvp. Thats a generalized statement. I was a pally all through to 55 and until gcd update. Then I went dual dex int. It depends on the player. Btw, tankaar is a friend of mine. I helped him with his build and skill set up. His k/d ratio is hidden. I doubt he has that low of deaths seeing as I killed him 50 times by myself, lol I exaggorrate. But kinda. I have 9000 plus kills in pvp. Bears are cool, some better than others of course. But you have a point in the full int/dex mage bird thing in comparison to full str bears which is silly imo. And fortified fury set owns for bears. People are finally realizing,this fact. I like pvping w a bear on my team. We combo off eachother nicely, they make great meat shield and I'm very aware of my heals and their health to keep them alive.

[MAlandM]

So in order to be good in PvP with a bear, you have to be a dual bear or like a dex or int bear? If so, then that's not really fair. You don't have to do that with a archer or enchantress, so why do you have to do it with a bear? It's not even fun being a dex bear or int bear, when you can choose to be an archer or enchantress instead and the outcome will be about the same, if not better. Warriors are supposed to be the strongerst class there should be due to the disadvantage of being melee. Instead PL developers choose to make Warriors the worst to... decrease the amount of players playing with a Warrior? It's just really not fiar... I choose a bear to start off with hoping that it will be really strong. I knew it had a disadvantage. I didn't know how big it was... By the way, my bear is level 23 now. I made a promise earlier on at about level 20 that I wasn't going to be a dual bear or int/dex bear... but I may have to change my mind now... And I don't want to...

Anyway, my point is this: All classes are supposed to be even overall, right? In PL, archers and enchantresses are much better than warriors in almost every way. This needs to change. And hopefully it shall.

[Ellyidol]

So in order to be good in PvP with a bear, you have to be a dual bear or like a dex or int bear? If so, then that's not really fair. You don't have to do that with a archer or enchantress, so why do you have to do it with a bear? It's not even fun being a dex bear or int bear, when you can choose to be an archer or enchantress instead and the outcome will be about the same, if not better. Warriors are supposed to be the strongerst class there should be due to the disadvantage of being melee. Instead PL developers choose to make Warriors the worst to... decrease the amount of players playing with a Warrior? It's just really not fiar... I choose a bear to start off with hoping that it will be really strong. I knew it had a disadvantage. I didn't know how big it was... By the way, my bear is level 23 now. I made a promise earlier on at about level 20 that I wasn't going to be a dual bear or int/dex bear... but I may have to change my mind now... And I don't want to...

Anyway, my point is this: All classes are supposed to be even overall, right? In PL, archers and enchantresses are much better than warriors in almost every way. This needs to change. And hopefully it shall.

Sadly, it's true.

Well, pure str can still work, but you ONLY take damage. I doubt with 65% Hit that you'd even land Beckons and debuffs.

The loss of tanking ability from full str to dual spec isn't that huge compared to the gain you get from adding dex. I believe Mr.Wallace showed exactly how much in one of his threads.

The only reason why I'd go pure str is if, and only if, they somehow make bears have higher Hit % despite being pure str.

[MAlandM]

Sadly, it's true.

Well, pure str can still work, but you ONLY take damage. I doubt with 65% Hit that you'd even land Beckons and debuffs.

The loss of tanking ability from full str to dual spec isn't that huge compared to the gain you get from adding dex. I believe Mr.Wallace showed exactly how much in one of his threads.

The only reason why I'd go pure str is if, and only if, they somehow make bears have higher Hit % despite being pure str.

I hope they do make bears have a higher Hit % AND have a higher dps. Even higher than archers. I would like it if they can go up to 250 dps without rage. This is only because of their huge disadvantage. The only solution to the disadvantage is making them stronger. Maybe I should suggest this in the suggestions... What do you guys think?

Also, why should bears have to be dual to be succesful in PvP? I still don't think you guys are getting the point yet (well I can see Elly isn't getting the point yet). Read what Elly quoted again. Archers and Enchantresses don't have to be dual. But bears DO to be good in PvP. The balance of classes isn't right at the moment.

[Ellyidol]

I hope they do make bears have a higher Hit % AND have a higher dps. Even higher than archers. I would like it if they can go up to 250 dps without rage. This is only because of their huge disadvantage. The only solution to the disadvantage is making them stronger. Maybe I should suggest this in the suggestions... What do you guys think?

Also, why should bears have to be dual to be succesful in PvP? I still don't think you guys are getting the point yet (well I can see Elly isn't getting the point yet). Read what Elly quoted again. Archers and Enchantresses don't have to be dual. But bears DO to be good in PvP. The balance of classes isn't right at the moment.

I get the point :p

My sadly, it's true comes from me agreeing that both other classes can go pure, while bears can't.

By all means, if you have a worthy suggestion then suggest it :)

Btw, they can't just add more DPS, since that will mainly come from weapon speed. I think you mean that we have higher base damage, or higher damage growth from strength :)

[Mr.Wallace]

Sadly, it's true.

Well, pure str can still work, but you ONLY take damage. I doubt with 65% Hit that you'd even land Beckons and debuffs.

The loss of tanking ability from full str to dual spec isn't that huge compared to the gain you get from adding dex. I believe Mr.Wallace showed exactly how much in one of his threads.

The only reason why I'd go pure str is if, and only if, they somehow make bears have higher Hit % despite being pure str.

Heard my name, immediatly woke up. ;-

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5261/5623933900_102dc4e8bf_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/61613079@N07/5623933900/)

That's the comparison Elly was referring to. And I totally agree, as the game is now,there is not much use for a full str warrior for the team. And that is completly different from.the other classes.

[Ellyidol]

Thanks Wallace!

So yeah, the biggest loss is the loss in Health IMO.

But you have higher damage, way higher hit, and the same crit. Worth the loss of a few armor, hs, and dodge IMO.

[MAlandM]

Health decreases? Didn't know that...
See, my point is that there is not much use for a pure STR warrior other than tanking, which is NOT useful in PvP or PvE solo... Thanks for understanding. :D I might make a suggestion later.

P.S. Yeah I meant a higher damage, not higher dps. But higher damage does lead to higher dps. Not a fast weapon either such as one with 50-51 with 0.3 speed cos warriors aren't that fast. One like 185-215 1.3 would be awesome or 125-145 0.9 or 1.0 speed.

[SoShaan]

Bear has been underpowered since the earily days. First off, they cant cause damage unless your face to face, toe to toe. Birds can attack from HUGE distance, mage can also cause indirect damage while being out of reach. If by some chance you can catch them in a pull, they can be lethal if they dont stun, birds can still repulse and run while they are stuned(bug) or not.
if i as a bear, swing at a target behind me, no damage. Birds,Elves both will turn around to target automaticly and damage it.
Since only like 5% play bear anymore. the liklyhood of gettimg those weakened is 0%

[MAlandM]

Bear has been underpowered since the earily days. First off, they cant cause damage unless your face to face, toe to toe. Birds can attack from HUGE distance, mage can also cause indirect damage while being out of reach. If by some chance you can catch them in a pull, they can be lethal if they dont stun, birds can still repulse and run while they are stuned(bug) or not.
if i as a bear, swing at a target behind me, no damage. Birds,Elves both will turn around to target automaticly and damage it.
Since only like 5% play bear anymore. the liklyhood of gettimg those weakened is 0%

Yes! I know have more evidence!
Also, the thing is, bears have low Hit % right?
Well, the funny thing is, bears can't catch their opponent, let alone hit them 2/3 of the time... I think bears need to become faster... Who agrees? If bears are faster, in PvP, bears will be able to catch their enemy!

[Vallist]

bears are strong, they should be able to run faster xD
but if they do that people that have birds will ask for flying ability
and people with mage will ask for teleporting umm :o

[MAlandM]

bears are strong, they should be able to run faster xD
but if they do that people that have birds will ask for flying ability
and people with mage will ask for teleporting umm :o

Not really. If bears can run faster then the game will be slightly more balanced than before. Doing any of the other things such as a flying bird will make it once again hugely unbalanced...

[allanbernardo5397]

MAlandM...
i think a bear having a little dex is not unfair...
i have played a lot of MMORPGs... and on every one of them there's always a Warrior , Rogue (Archer) , and Mage...
Archers are always pure dex...(unless they are hybrid or dual spec in this game) because dex gives hit % and damage (sometimes with dodge)... which are all the stats they need...
Mages are pure ints also...(again unless they are dual spec) int gives mana pool , damage etc etc.... which are all the stats they need(again)...
and as for Warriors (Ursan)... [in almost all of the MMORPGs that ive played] they are never pure in str....
when they say that they are Pure Str... it means they have decent Dex to have enough hit %.... Warriors that doesn't have dex just swings on air...

So I think putting a little dex to get Hit% wouldn't hurt...