Mage buff._.

[Imobster]

Why are rogues still #1? What about mages and warriors ._.

[bedmaster]

Decrease mage heal cooldown in pvp :/ from lv25 mage, a rogue can heal right after all packs are taken and each packs heals a fixed 30% of hp while a mage heal is determined by how much dmg a mage has. Only heal abt 60% (only have 285 dmg and 2,7k hp) and extremely long cd. Remove rogue dmg debuff, decrease skill dmg of rogues (500 dmg rogue have 800+ dmg aim shot :/) increase rogue heal CD, decrease mage heal CD. Ty xD

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah282/chandra7plav/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/chandra7plav/media/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg.html)

[Remarked]

Mage heal is a joke

[kixkaxx]

Mage is quite good in pvp now. At least in end game, rogue is actually weakest in pvp

[Zeus]

Mage is quite good in pvp now. At least in end game, rogue is actually weakest in pvp

Agreed - it's about time we get our pet damage back. As pets get stronger, we have to face sorcerers with 900 damage (& higher in the coming cap) when our damage is 2/3rds of that. At end game, one doesn't even need rogues anymore in clash as a sorcerer is far more effective.

[omgcrit]

True :) but not every mage will have 900+ damage.

[RoseFaded]

I have 900+ dmg no lixs :) & no arcane ring. Its all about build, gear & how you use that to your advantage. I know a few mages who can go toe to toe with rogues with better gear & pets just because they wait & plan their atk. Btw friends im talking of has almost 800dmg

[yubaraj]

Agreed - it's about time we get our pet damage back. As pets get stronger, we have to face sorcerers with 900 damage (& higher in the coming cap) when our damage is 2/3rds of that. At end game, one doesn't even need rogues anymore in clash as a sorcerer is far more effective.

Even rogue damage is 2/3 of mage , rogue charged aimed shot is able to drop mages' health by 90%. Another normal attack and we are dead. We have a 50% chance to kill rogue if we can stun rogue and use shield and rogue we face unskilled rogues who use shadow piercer before going for packs.
If rogue is skilled enough and get his packs [rogue health packs heal over 90% whereas charged lifegiver only heals 30-35% aprox ] by that time our shield is already broken and we end up dead.

If rogue wants their dmg bonus back then nerf aimed shot by 50%. If they get their damge back then mage will be killed in one shot.

[bedmaster]

Rogue have too many dodge :( mage with better stats still lose to much lower rogue bcuz of this. Lightning and ice dodged :/ even if they got hit its ok they got more armor and hp than mages, and that OP heal. But mage cant dodge anything despite having lower hp and armor. Theyr both dps class so why cant mage crit and dodge like rogue? The only difference is mage have shield and aoe skills. Rogues will still have more dmg multiplier. Give mages dodge... warriors are fine they have high hp armor and crazy buffs they need no dodge. But give mages dodge and more armor pls so when shield breaks its not gg.

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah282/chandra7plav/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/chandra7plav/media/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg.html)

[kixkaxx]

Rogue have too many dodge :( mage with better stats still lose to much lower rogue bcuz of this. Lightning and ice dodged :/ even if they got hit its ok they got more armor and hp than mages, and that OP heal. But mage cant dodge anything despite having lower hp and armor. Theyr both dps class so why cant mage crit and dodge like rogue? The only difference is mage have shield and aoe skills. Rogues will still have more dmg multiplier. Give mages dodge... warriors are fine they have high hp armor and crazy buffs they need no dodge. But give mages dodge and more armor pls so when shield breaks its not gg.

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah282/chandra7plav/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/chandra7plav/media/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg.html)

Lol, you must have never pvped before. Light and fire can't be dodged;

[bedmaster]

Lol, you must have never pvped before. Light and fire can't be dodged;
O.O really? Sometimes my opponent hp doesnt reduce when i charge light or ice... maybe skills failed cuz I pressed all skills at once lol but how come a 2,1k hp 200 dmg rogue beat my 2,8k hp 285 dmg mage :(

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah282/chandra7plav/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/chandra7plav/media/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg.html)

[Imobster]

O.O really? Sometimes my opponent hp doesnt reduce when i charge light or ice... maybe skills failed cuz I pressed all skills at once lol but how come a 2,1k hp 200 dmg rogue beat my 2,8k hp 285 dmg mage :(

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah282/chandra7plav/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/chandra7plav/media/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg.html)
But in twinks I could have double the damage and attack of a rogue and still get 2 or 1 hitted. Really haven't been too end game.

[xnorwayx]

Agreed - it's about time we get our pet damage back. As pets get stronger, we have to face sorcerers with 900 damage (& higher in the coming cap) when our damage is 2/3rds of that. At end game, one doesn't even need rogues anymore in clash as a sorcerer is far more effective.

This will destroy twink lvls. Right now for mages and warriors it's hard to stop rogue, but with pet damage good geared rogue will need 1 aimed crit to kill mage at lvl 10+..

[Imobster]

This will destroy twink lvls. Right now for mages and warriors it's hard to stop rogue, but with pet damage good geared rogue will need 1 aimed crit to kill mage at lvl 10+..

Regardless how well geared a Mage is , a rogue at twink levels will dominate .

[Wazakesy]

Agreed - it's about time we get our pet damage back. As pets get stronger, we have to face sorcerers with 900 damage (& higher in the coming cap) when our damage is 2/3rds of that. At end game, one doesn't even need rogues anymore in clash as a sorcerer is far more effective.

Exactly as what he has said,instead of seeing Nekro Rogues being called, ive seen mage stacks at endgame. Our damage nerf has started to make us useless in clashes, even if you were to have ring nekro and a crazy dmg with the nerf, theres a less chance you may be called upon in a clash....

[xnorwayx]

Regardless how well geared a Mage is , a rogue at twink levels will dominate .

So true.. Anyways if you are really skilled, you can down their hp to 10-20% when dying

[xnorwayx]

Exactly as what he has said,instead of seeing Nekro Rogues being called, ive seen mage stacks at endgame. Our damage nerf has started to make us useless in clashes, even if you were to have ring nekro and a crazy dmg with the nerf, theres a less chance you may be called upon in a clash....

Please think. Rogue vs. 4k hp and 500 dmg outside the room and around 400 inside the room against 5k hp and 700+ dmg outside room with around 580 in the room. It's 1 combo to kill 4k hp rogue. What if sts will remove damage nerf? Rich and geared won't need to use combo. 1 aimed crit hit and any rogue is dead. Then it will be only 1 question. Who crit first?

[Newcomx]

Mage is quite good in pvp now. At least in end game, rogue is actually weakest in pvp

I think not the weakest but quite even. No easy kill now.

[Arachnophobik]

Why is everyone looking at dmg? Its not even that accurate as far i remember, lvl 36 glaive has better skill dmg than maul and the lvl 41 mage myth has better dmg than kershall. True, mages overall will have the bigger dmg in the stat screen, but lets not forget they have the lowest armor and hp of all 3 classes. Im not saying lets buff mages, not saying buff ne one actually, but if anything, id say rogues wud have it all, from hp, armor, dmg and crit (assuming the rogue is maxed out). Were all like buff this buff that until somebody cries cuz some class just got too op. Sometimes i feel like the biggest solution wud be to nerf everyone until theyre all balanced.

[Wazakesy]

Please think. Rogue vs. 4k hp and 500 dmg outside the room and around 400 inside the room against 5k hp and 700+ dmg outside room with around 580 in the room. It's 1 combo to kill 4k hp rogue. What if sts will remove damage nerf? Rich and geared won't need to use combo. 1 aimed crit hit and any rogue is dead. Then it will be only 1 question. Who crit first?

Think about this, mages right now have their shield buffed, and the planar amulet gives them more power, i have seen mages with 5k hp, 780+dmg and at least 1.3k armor. And lets not forget that elondrian bows have about 85 more dmg than a perfect expedition potency one. While for mages, an elondrian gun has about 90-100 more dmg than a perfect expedition assault or brutality. A perfect elon bow has less than 105dmg than a perf expedition potency, a perfect elon gun has 114 more dmg than a lerf expedition brutality gun. Mages lightning will do 15% more damage and honus 250% more on a crit shot. Mages shield was even buffed recently, this gave them a good chance to actually PvP. Rogues are not even that over powered.

Think of those mages that own a nekro? They can alternate between the arc shield and NKR shield. Rogue with nekro will have a small chance to kill the mage, full maxed out vs maxed out. Now the question is, are mages actually squishy right now?

[Madnex]

Here we go again.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?207595-Regarding-Class-Balance

Apart from the above, 80% of a rogue's damage output is coming from a single skill (armor reduction, crit buff, critical hit's damage multiplier, damage buff, all in one) whilst a mage has his damage spread out in three attack skills. That's a disadvantage right there for twink mages with the lack of skill points. Warriors have the OP heals from VB/Jugg besides from the 3s invulnerability (plus heal). Twinking isn't really mage-friendly.

Anyway, cut these complaints off and learn the limitations and mechanics of your class instead of making "plox buffz" threads.

[Oreosmilk]

Mage heal is a joke

Totally true, and i sold you that name xD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mavex]

Mage is quite good in pvp now. At least in end game, rogue is actually weakest in pvp

This is absolute crap. I am a lvl41 mage with kershal and i get taken out too fast by rogues with not the best items. Now i dont have the best armor cause im waiting for the expansion but still rogues are overrated

[Edward Coug]

Will do as soon as rogues on my friends list stop running events and arena in 4 rogue parties and maps in 1/3 parties :-)

Planar Tombs 3:

My best all rogue run: 7:45

My best three rogue plus one mage run: 8:00

My best two rogue 1 war, 1 mage run: 8:30

My best two rogue, two mage run: 8:30

My best three rogue, 1 war run: 8:40

Unless we're talking about rogues with Nekros and a lot of paras and arcane rings, the difference between the classes in PvE is largely based in perception, not reality.

Don't get me wrong. The leaderboards will still be dominated by rogues. But that's because of para gems, arcane rings, and OP pets. Most rogues out there are not close to having that kind of gear.

Yes, it is also true that there are many rogues who refuse to invite other classes. However, many of these rogues aren't running any faster than they would with other classes. If you're not shadow-piercing the boss, you're not going to get an insane time. Most rogues simply don't have enough health and armor to pull this off (without gutting their damage). We are talking about a very small minority.

[Newcomx]

If we are all going to compare stats, ill have you stat throwing people know ive seen rogues with 900+ damage and 5k hp and 1.7k armour... Seen rogues with 1.4k dps too.... Stats prove nothing much really.

The rogue skill set is OP, this can be seen everywhere fromwether if be in PvE or PvP all across the level brackets... Thats the main concern here. Rogues have a swt of skills which faaaaaaaaaaaar outlaps the other two classes.

Agree! Rogue have Aimed Shot with fast cooldown and additional 10% crit (and already have high crit) for 5s!! Rogue can release 2 Aimed, while Sorc can only release 1 Lightning (Fire take longer cooldown) at the same time.

So stats prove nothing much!

[will0]

If they think mage is OP, play mage yourself against good rogues and tanks .... end game will tell all...

[e'dria♡]

Mages is a crowd control character, comparing it to vs a rogue is indeed a loss for mages but that doesnt mean mages needs a buff. I am a fully geared rogue and decided to make a mage for clashes because mages are so freaking OP on a clash! I dont think mages need buffs since they are already above Godly for their class.

Each one of us should know each class' purposes and stop comparing them on other classes. Each has different usage, each has different weaknesses, the thing that has to be "buffed" here is the way how you play a particular class, not the class itself.

[yubaraj]

Mages is a crowd control character, comparing it to vs a rogue is indeed a loss for mages but that doesnt mean mages needs a buff. I am a fully geared rogue and decided to make a mage for clashes because mages are so freaking OP on a clash! I dont think mages need buffs since they are already above Godly for their class.

Each one of us should know each class' purposes and stop comparing them on other classes. Each has different usage, each has different weaknesses, the thing that has to be "buffed" here is the way how you play a particular class, not the class itself.

I agree that mages are good in clash because attack skill can hit 5 targets and mages provide mana to a team. However if you think mages are freaking op or god in clash then I believe your party members are skilled and had op gears.

I really don't understand why rogue aimed shot critical hit do 3k- 4k dmg. 250% dmg of 900-1100 BUT 4k dmg ? Something is wrong there. Level 15 rogue do over 1k dmg on critical aimed shot. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??

and I always like to compare mage heal with other class and feel sad. If u say u played mage then you know what I am talking about.

Aimed shot needs to be nerfed. Mages don't need buff.

[kixkaxx]

This is absolute crap. I am a lvl41 mage with kershal and i get taken out too fast by rogues with not the best items. Now i dont have the best armor cause im waiting for the expansion but still rogues are overrated

I assume that you need Elon gun for mage at least. Kershal is crap in pvp. Moreover, the gap between mages are very large. For you you migh have 700dmg and 20crit. But there are mages with 850 dmg and 50crit, they are extremely op in pvp and hit harder than rogue. Moreover, you might not have nekro that gives you 15%dmg in pvp which rogues can not enjoy. Pvp is pretty mush favor for mage and warrior AT MAX GEAR - when mage, rogue all have the same best gear, then rogue has no chance.

[Zeus]

I agree that mages are good in clash because attack skill can hit 5 targets and mages provide mana to a team. However if you think mages are freaking op or god in clash then I believe your party members are skilled and had op gears.

I really don't understand why rogue aimed shot critical hit do 3k- 4k dmg. 250% dmg of 900-1100 BUT 4k dmg ? Something is wrong there. Level 15 rogue do over 1k dmg on critical aimed shot. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??

and I always like to compare mage heal with other class and feel sad. If u say u played mage then you know what I am talking about.

Aimed shot needs to be nerfed. Mages don't need buff.

If you replace your rogues with sorcerers in a clash, a mage can run 3 attack skills (and there's 2-3 of them). It outputs so much damage, along with 2 shields (Nekro + Arcane Shield) that they are very difficult to kill. If you try approaching one to kill, you get nuked by it. So yes, sorcerers are very OP in a clash.

Try playing a 3 mage clash at end game against a 1-2 rogue/sorc clash. The 3 mages usually wins.

[Litheus]

I have 900+ dmg no lixs :) & no arcane ring. Its all about build, gear & how you use that to your advantage. I know a few mages who can go toe to toe with rogues with better gear & pets just because they wait & plan their atk. Btw friends im talking of has almost 800dmg

mages are good if they dont use heal....i can kill some samuel rogues with 512damage and ethyl

[Litheus]

Even rogue damage is 2/3 of mage , rogue charged aimed shot is able to drop mages' health by 90%. Another normal attack and we are dead. We have a 50% chance to kill rogue if we can stun rogue and use shield and rogue we face unskilled rogues who use shadow piercer before going for packs.
If rogue is skilled enough and get his packs [rogue health packs heal over 90% whereas charged lifegiver only heals 30-35% aprox ] by that time our shield is already broken and we end up dead.

If rogue wants their dmg bonus back then nerf aimed shot by 50%. If they get their damge back then mage will be killed in one shot.

its better to not use heal while vs'ing a rogue....instead use a skill...heal is useless in vs rogue

[Litheus]

O.O really? Sometimes my opponent hp doesnt reduce when i charge light or ice... maybe skills failed cuz I pressed all skills at once lol but how come a 2,1k hp 200 dmg rogue beat my 2,8k hp 285 dmg mage :(

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah282/chandra7plav/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/chandra7plav/media/Mobile%20Uploads/PicsArt_1428811885348_zpsxpktgrgj.jpg.html)

oh lol at twink my lv13 rogue can beat beat lv15 mage's

[yubaraj]

If you replace your rogues with sorcerers in a clash, a mage can run 3 attack skills (and there's 2-3 of them). It outputs so much damage, along with 2 shields (Nekro + Arcane Shield) that they are very difficult to kill. If you try approaching one to kill, you get nuked by it. So yes, sorcerers are very OP in a clash.

Try playing a 3 mage clash at end game against a 1-2 rogue/sorc clash. The 3 mages usually wins.

I know you are one of the top players of AL and playing with some of the OP players. Whereas I am playing with normal gears with normal skilled players. I cannot afford to play endgame mage nor I can afford necro.

I am not denying mages are good in mage. But if you are saying mages are op including necro then I will say necro is already op which makes anyone OP IMO.
I understand everyone has different opinions however I just want STS to look onto mages' lifegiver skill and rogues Aimed shot. I feel like these skills need some kind of tweaking.

[Litheus]

everyone made a rogue and left their warriors when rogue was op now lets make a mage and name this game mage legends...then when warriors get op we will name it warrior legends and all will be warriors

[yubaraj]

its better to not use heal while vs'ing a rogue....instead use a skill...heal is useless in vs rogue

Thank you for your advice.

Anyways, I was just comparing health skill between mage and rogue. And I said 50% chance to win against unskilled rogue. Rogue class is better in vs with mage. Mages doesn't stand a chance against equally geared and equally skilled rogue.

[Zeus]

I know you are one of the top players of AL and playing with some of the OP players. Whereas I am playing with normal gears with normal skilled players. I cannot afford to play endgame mage nor I can afford necro.

I am not denying mages are good in mage. But if you are saying mages are op including necro then I will say necro is already op which makes anyone OP IMO.
I understand everyone has different opinions however I just want STS to look onto mages' lifegiver skill and rogues Aimed shot. I feel like these skills need some kind of tweaking.

Sorry, I should clarify. Sorcerers do not even need the Nekro to be OP. Nekro just enhances something that they already have.

[e'dria♡]

I agree that mages are good in clash because attack skill can hit 5 targets and mages provide mana to a team. However if you think mages are freaking op or god in clash then I believe your party members are skilled and had op gears.

having an OP gears is a different topic here. If a legendary rogue or tank will vs a fully geared mage, they will indeed die as well. Same as tanks and rogues, if tanks is fully geared and clashing on a legendary players, the tank will surely survive as well! However if you are fully geared mage yet died on a legendary player then thats not the class' problem, its your way of playing your chosen class.

If you went on a fully geared clash and line up goes 2 tanks, 2 rogue 1 mage and the other team is 2 tanks 3 mages, you will know and you will see how its going to be like. With that aspect, i have no doubts that mages are OP as how they should be and there is no other things needed to be buffed on them.

Mages are technically designed to be like that and they did well on that line!

[Edward Coug]

*sighs* you cant see it in your own post...

The difference between the classes in PvE is based on reality, perception is based on reality.

Do you think its all right for a class to have exclusive areas where they can make a pure party and dominate the map? Is it okay for rogues to have areas where they can run with the same classes and run more efficiently? I've seen many rogues with decent gear(no mythics besides ring and pets) who running with has been cheaper and faster than with fully geared warriors or mages. A good run for me we ld be 2-3 runs without dieing and a bad one usually ends with 3-4 ankhs a run. I've had more good runs with 3 rogues than with 1 warrior and 2 rogues. The gear sure as hell helps but even half geared parties with the same hp, armour and strategies can run the map as efficiently.

Then there's the part where you've stated rogues who refuse to invite other classes. This in itself is a huge problem. It's okay for a DPS class to have the armour and hp to tank almost every boss in endgame(of how a handful of rogues who have told me its easier to solo arena and elite wilds with legendaries(blinky as a pet) than an almost full mythic arcane pet rogue).
The wholesomeness of AL as a RPG is getting destroyed because of this imbalance in character skill sets, there isnt any use for warriors and an all rogue party(add a little smurf for the aoe) is efficient in almost all the maps. This is the imbalance, which you can deny all you want but in the end it's there for everyone to see when there are a dozen threads popping up about how warriors and rogues even with good gear can't find parties. I have yet to see one single event where a thread titled"ugh not another rogue event" hasn't been posted by some newbie. Let's forget all of the forumers lets look at the ingame numbers. 3r/1m or w, 2r/1m/1w this is what all the parties where you actually want to run without using too many ankhs are like, are they not? Well this says how 2 classes have pretty much no use except be the punching bags for another class. wait scratch that, warriors and their failed aggro means they cant even be punching members. Do tell me its okay for one class to have a purpose and the other two classes to have no purpose in parties.

-First of all, the gap is less than a minute. The warrior and mage runs are safer (in my experience, at least), so I would gladly trade 45 seconds for not using any ankhs. Pretty easy call. (*Arena is different in that it is made up entirely of bosses - bosses that can one hit warriors. I was talking about tombs and everything else. I completely agree with you about Arena.)

-I'm telling you, you can't get insane times with rogues unless you have the gear that allows you to shadow-pierce the boss repeatedly. Even if you have that gear, you can still get a really good time with the other classes in the party. What's your best time? I guarantee that if it was under 9 minutes you had a rogue or rogues with very good gear shadow-piercing the boss. Not many rogues have that kind of gear.

-I can tell you why you've had better luck with 3 rogue parties. Better players tend to gravitate toward rogue because that class deals the most damage to the boss. The boss is the longest part of the level. There are many great warriors and mages. However, there are many more good rogues. I know more rogues than warriors who can stun Taurus consistently and park perfectly. When you're actually playing with all good players, the runs are safer with a mage and a warrior (and not much slower).

-The part about rogues with all legendary gear having an easier time soloing elite wilds and arena than a fully geared rogue is complete nonsense. Try soloing those levels with pink gear (not counting imbued). It's hard with good gear. Maybe what you meant is that Blinky is overpowered. I completely agree. Blinky is a really good pet. But Blinky doesn't somehow magically make it easy to solo Arena or Wilds with bad gear (or even with good gear). This is just silly.

-I really do believe most rogues who only party with other rogues are not actually running tombs efficiently. We are in complete agreement about Arena, however. I'm all in favor of creating a bizarro Arena, where there is no boss, just tough mobs. Mages would dominate the leaderboard. All mage parties. It would be great.

-I should also add that I have always said that Warriors need a PvE buff. I don't feel too bad though because they are currently the best for PvP. Rogues are the worst.

[Jazzi]

-I'm telling you, you can't get insane times with rogues unless you have the gear that allows you to shadow-pierce the boss repeatedly. Even if you have that gear, you can still get a really good time with the other classes in the party. What's your best time? I guarantee that if it was under 9 minutes you had a rogue or rogues with very good gear shadow-piercing the boss. Not many rogues have that kind of gear.



My comment is completely off-topic and I apologize for that.

I just wanted to say in regards to shadow piercer, that the number of rogues who don't know and/or want to believe how much damage piercer actually adds is staggering.

[Bluebatthing]

My comment is completely off-topic and I apologize for that.

I just wanted to say in regards to shadow piercer, that the number of rogues who don't know and/or want to believe how much damage piercer actually adds is staggering.

I think most rogues know about the aim nox pierce combo, but are reluctant to use it on elite bosses due to gear not able to withstand being one-shotted.

Apologies for going off topic.

[Edward Coug]

Maybe a minute(which turned to 45 seconds pretty quickly in that post) for you... Pretty sure everyone I know support having a 3/1 party because it can speed runs up by more than just 1 min, at the very least I would say 3 minutes averagely. Idk how this got into ur post... Accepting the fact that arena is an exclusive rogue area is not helping your case.

This is not about time but the efficiency of the runs and how much difficulty finding a decent rogue is. Most of the rogues I've been running with have decent gear, maybe one arcane pet full mythic rogue in party.

Third point is just hogwash. Rare to find good warriors, I use up the same number of ankhs whether its a 3/1 or a 2/1/1 party.

Pink rogue>fully geared mage

Not going to happen.

Not sure. Then again this arguement isnt about PvP at endgame.

-The time difference didn't change. Read it again, this time more closely. Please tell me what your fastest T3 run is with your friends (which is not an all rogue party). Is it way faster than 8:30? I'm guessing it isn't. The point hidden in here is that with two rogues shadow-piercing the boss, a warrior stunning, and a mage handling the vines, you're not going to be much slower than an all rogue team (45 second difference for me).

-I'm agreeing with you about Arena. I'm trying to lay out all of the facts to show a complete picture, not build a case by hiding important details. Arena is definitely made for all rogue parties. It's beyond stupid that warriors can be one hit by the Arena bosses and can't hold aggro. Mages are so much more useful than warriors in Arena, but they still clearly play second fiddle. In total agreement.

-OK. This makes more sense. In your post, you compared a pink rogue with a max-geared rogue. That's why I was confused. I still don't agree with it, but oh well. Please make a rogue with an alias. Don't tell your friends. I'll donate all the pink gear. Try to run T3 and let me know how overpowered rogues are. I think you'll have a new perspective.

-PVP is relevant because it flips the pyramid. But if you don't want to talk about PvP because you stick to PvE, I get it. PvP isn't for everyone.

[yubaraj]

Zeus and e'dria,

I am not experienced player as you guys are in Endgame PVP. If you say mage is OP in endgame [clash not vs] then I will accept that. But I don't think it's the same case in twink level.

I don't wanna argue more but I will say same thing again. Rogue damage output and mages shield , I will take these in equivalent aspect. The thing I have been complaining about is mages lifegiver skill compare to rogue health pack and warrior's juggernaut.Everyone knows that lifegiver skill is so underpowered in comparison to rogue and warrior healing skill. And I am against giving rogue their damage back because its gonna be one shot kill if they get more damage.

[Alejandros]

Mages need a boost at twinking lv pls no one can denay that mages twinks below lv 31 have a ridiculous heal % while rogues have more than 100% heal in all packs and tanks have 5ticks of insane heal plus a 3 second inmunity(even more than mages shield) so maybe if STS change heal skill for mages will be really apreciated maybe make it like 80%hp or something. Ty

[Imobster]

Back to what I said, there's mages who are op, I've never seen a Mage at end game I'm just stating that at low levels mages are basically not even useful, I've had rogues that don't have 4 times less of my health and damage and they still so how magically manage to 1 hit me .

[Tatman]

Maybe a minute(which turned to 45 seconds pretty quickly in that post) for you... Pretty sure everyone I know support having a 3/1 party because it can speed runs up by more than just 1 min, at the very least I would say 3 minutes averagely.
Now, now. You sure love exaggerating. :) I can show you a tank/mage/rogue/rogue party with consistent 8-9 minutes PT3 times, screenshots are somewhere here on one of the contest threads (Tour of Arlor I think). No arcane rings, only one arcane pet as far as I remember. I'd like you to show me a similarly geared all rogue party (or 3 rogues, 1 mage - whichever you prefer) doing 5-6 minutes on average. :)

[Cray]

There were timers on during the contest so people didn't scale

[Edward Coug]

Now, now. You sure love exaggerating. :) I can show you a tank/mage/rogue/rogue party with consistent 8-9 minutes PT3 times, screenshots are somewhere here on one of the contest threads (Tour of Arlor I think). No arcane rings, only one arcane pet as far as I remember. I'd like you to show me a similarly geared all rogue party (or 3 rogues, 1 mage - whichever you prefer) doing 5-6 minutes on average. :)

My guess is that Avikk's average runs are longer than he'd care to admit. I can tell you what you need to do to speed them up.

-Believe it or not, your rogues are slowing you down. Tell them to shadow-pierce the boss, if their gear allows it. (If their gear is good enough to do this but they are worried about dying, tell them to play as a mage or warrior. It's far cheaper.) Have the weakest rogue stun the boss. (Or invite a warrior. Won't sacrifice much time. I promise.)

-You have to handle the vines by yourself. No excuses. Breeze helps.

-If you really want to speed up your runs and are feeling beastly, don't skip the hard mobs. Kill everything (excluding the parked giants) that is on the way to the boss. That way, you don't have to go into the side room to the left of the boss room.

-You can also shave a tiny bit of time off your run by leaving your lep in your inventory. I get far more elite planar chests without it, anyway. (Although I rerolled into a locked the other day without a lep equipped zzzzzz.)

If you after doing this, you beat my 8:30 2 rogue, 1 mage, 1 war T3 run with your 3 rogue, 1 mage party (no elixirs of course), let me be the first to congratulate you.

[Tatman]

Timers were on for Tombs during that week of ToA. I'm too lazy to search through that monstrous thread, but I will, if avikk accepts the challenge. :) Anyway, I'm pretty sure I can do a 7-minute run with the same tank/mage/rogue/rogue party now, as we have all geared up since then. But then avikk will have to beat the current lb record to prove his point. ;) Ok, end of offtopic.

[Wazakesy]

If we are all going to compare stats, ill have you stat throwing people know ive seen rogues with 900+ damage and 5k hp and 1.7k armour... Seen rogues with 1.4k dps too.... Stats prove nothing much really.

The rogue skill set is OP, this can be seen everywhere fromwether if be in PvE or PvP all across the level brackets... Thats the main concern here. Rogues have a swt of skills which faaaaaaaaaaaar outlaps the other two classes.

I'd like to see a rogue like that. 900 damage? Ive only seen rogues less than 845 damage and 900+ damage is usually an elixir most of the time. Im just too curious to see if a rogue with the stats you have mentioned exist WITHOUT AN ELIXIR.

[Wazakesy]

everyone made a rogue and left their warriors when rogue was op now lets make a mage and name this game mage legends...then when warriors get op we will name it warrior legends and all will be warriors

name it as buff/nerf legends, suits it better than cycle legends...

[Madnex]

I'd like to see a rogue like that. 900 damage? Ive only seen rogues less than 845 damage and 900+ damage is usually an elixir most of the time. Im just too curious to see if a rogue with the stats you have mentioned exist WITHOUT AN ELIXIR.
That's impossible. 790 damage and barely 5k HP is about the limit without elix and it requires either sns or nekro to achieve. We're talking about 5-6 paras+ and the rest, eyes.

Maximum non elix damage is about 850 with full para but that's no longer a possibility. Atm, best you'll find is below 840 and that's with a huge HP loss (4.4-4.5k).

Edit:
Nightshade excluded, anyone who can afford to be maxed out would never opt to run with NS instead of Nekro except from very specific low level maps.

[Jazzi]

Off topic again. This thread is getting a bit too heated ;) Anyhow if I had the resources to switch to a maxed mage I would. A mage with 50% crit is a beast :-)

[Anyona]

Off topic again. This thread is getting a bit too heated ;) Anyhow if I had the resources to switch to a maxed mage I would. A mage with 50% crit is a beast :-)
Yes they're op, clock hitting 2k on initial hit then not to mention all they're dots critting. I personally love playing mage but when it has mediocore stats I don't find it that fun.

[Edward Coug]

"First of all, the gap is less than a minute. The warrior and mage runs are safer (in my experience, at least), so I would gladly trade 45 seconds for not using any ankhs."
I'd suggest you type carefully and then re-read post before you tell others to "read carefully". lol

Your supposed difference is probably for you. Would like to point out your the one throwing out numbers like 7-8 etc. And fastest time for me would be 7;55(had to check) this is with a 3 rogue 1 mage party not even an all rogue party. With 400-500 ping and no damages 3 arcane pets and no rings in party. I didn't fare so well with a party full of arcane rings and nekros and an SnS approximately early 9 minute runs for. *When it comes to timed runs theres a lot of factors that needed to be taken into consideration(ping,gear,elixirs,lucky crits).*

You, someone who has changed from a mage character to a rogue character must realise whats missing in the gameplay. Either you can keep being delusional that mages are fine as the are or you can help the people who can change this realise theres something missing in the gameplay(which can easily be seen when one compares the number of rogues logging in endgame when theres an event or a new expansion to the other classes.)

You just told me to read carefully and you just misread a rogue to a mage. <_<

If you can't solo arena in that gear I'll suggest you talk to some of the people on my friendslist who have been soloing arena fine. Try using blinky, nilbog and nightshade for the different bosses(each bosses has a countering pet out of these 3). Could be your gameplay too, a little tweak here and there and you should solo arena fine. I also see you've mentioned pt3 in your post which i never mentioned. Some areas need the proper stats to be farmed, now compare a imbued, ring, mythic weapon, planar pendant and arcane pet rogue to a mage you will see the difference. Obviously a pink geared rogue can't solo pt3, read my there's a step called stepping stones to farming should explain how this game is supposed to be played. I bet by this time in the post you aren't liking the condescending manner I'm talking to you.


My rogues are just fine, most of them with good gear do what they are supposed to do. Have a few runners who run with me daily and i definetly enjoy the run with them #stillDoingPt3.

Vines what are these?i know not what your talking about. jk

I'll have you know the giants are the fastest kills, try killing them for a change when YOU feel beastly. I was born beastly and have always been the same.

I always run all the map with my lepre on I like rerolling for locks.

Besides you "enlightening" me about runs I'll have you know my teacher always told me empty vessels make the most noise, so the next time you go around throwing numbers around on forums be ready to get pawned(castled and check mated).

The last line will make you the butt of many a jokes I would suggest editing that out unless you don't want to be called out for 'that noob' down the line.




pfft i marked the part you should read in asterisks. I have a 400-500 ping constantly, end up lagging out in the double pulls. So *shoos tatnab away*

Avikk,

-Um, 45 seconds is less than a minute. So I'm not sure how I am being inconsistent. (8:30 - 7:45 = 45 seconds). Just clarifying. Not knocking you.

-I didn't switch from mage to rogue. I started out as a warrior, a class that I've advocated for a PvE buff all along. Even so, I've had great success getting good times with warriors in my party.

-"It's okay for a DPS class to have the armour and hp to tank almost every boss in endgame(of how a handful of rogues who have told me its easier to solo arena and elite wilds with legendaries(blinky as a pet) than an almost full mythic arcane pet rogue)."

You compared a pink rogue with a maxed-out rogue. That's why I was confused. I understand now that you meant to say maxed out mage. Again, just clarifying.

-I don't think it's easy to solo Arena as a rogue with all pink gear. I still don't. I don't know. Maybe I'm a noob. Probably so, lol.

-You don't park the giants? Really? I've found the runs to be much faster and safer when you park the giants, but it could just be me.

-There is much debate about whether you are better off using a lep in tombs. (I think there is a thread where Kalizza wrote about it a while ago.) I once saw someone reroll into two elite planar chests on one drop. However, I've rerolled out of more chests than into them. This of course will be a moot point soon as locks are being retired Thursday. (Finally!)

-I don't much care if I get called a noob. I stand by my 8:30 time with 2 rogues, 1 mage, and 1 warrior. Not trying to mislead anyone by posting fake times. I'm just trying to show everyone that at least for me, having an all rogue party doesn't make a huge difference, and it's actually a more dangerous run.

-I'll end by saying this. Avikk, I've run with you. I think you're good, and you've always been nice to me in parties. I don't mean any of this to be hostile. If anything came off as condescending, I'm sorry. I should have chosen my words more carefully. I just really want to dispel the false notion that all rogue parties are far superior to parties where all classes are represented (unless, of course, the rogues are built like Zeus). Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I don't think so.

[Tatman]

Off topic again. This thread is getting a bit too heated ;) Anyhow if I had the resources to switch to a maxed mage I would. A mage with 50% crit is a beast :-)
It's heated, because it's the same 'rogue legends' bs. And that's getting old to be honest. People see the incredible lb times of those uber geared 4-rogue parties - arcane rings, gazillion paras, SnS stacking and whatnot - and go 'ooh rogues so op'. I'm pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of all the possible endgame 4-rogue parties in this game can't even touch those times multiplied by two (e.g. a record of 4 mins - most 4-rogue parties can't get under 8 mins).

[Kingofninjas]

It's heated, because it's the same 'rogue legends' bs. And that's getting old to be honest. People see the incredible lb times of those uber geared 4-rogue parties - arcane rings, gazillion paras, SnS stacking and whatnot - and go 'ooh rogues so op'. I'm pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of all the possible endgame 4-rogue parties in this game can't even touch those times multiplied by two (e.g. a record of 4 mins - most 4-rogue parties can't get under 8 mins).

Any half decent rogue party can get under 8 minutes. I'm speaking of a full mythic set and arcane pet. All you need to do is actually use shadow piercer at the boss and its incredibly easy to get a time of 7-8 minutes.

[Jazzi]

Any half decent rogue party can get under 8 minutes. I'm speaking of a full mythic set and arcane pet. All you need to do is actually use shadow piercer at the boss and its incredibly easy to get a time of 7-8 minutes.

Yes, it is true that any full mythic 4 rogue with arcane pets pt could do a 7-8 minute run, however:
1. They have to know what they are doing , e.g. no charching of skills, using piercer all the time.
2. They will have to pierce during the boss fight and this will mean anytging between 1-5 ankhs only for the boss part. This in contrast to them being able to go deathless otherwise. Anyhow it is fun to do it that way but the ankh cost would be too high.

P.S. Unless the pt has one, or preferably broken pets, aka Nekro. But then again they would not fall into the decently geared category would they. Further the OP claims this is generally valid, where as being that fast in 4 rogue pt is only possible after a certain level of gear and skill, which is not the average. And lastly I still maintain that 3 rogue and one mage is fastest pt.

[Tatman]

Any half decent rogue party can get under 8 minutes. I'm speaking of a full mythic set and arcane pet. All you need to do is actually use shadow piercer at the boss and its incredibly easy to get a time of 7-8 minutes.
Any half decent tank/mage/rogue/rogue party can go ~8 minutes with such gear.

And btw I was talking elites in general, not just Tomb 3.

[Edward Coug]

Any half decent tank/mage/rogue/rogue party can go ~8 minutes with such gear.

And btw I was talking elites in general, not just Tomb 3.

Egads. I'm so embarrassed. I've been going around thinking I was half decent for so long. :(

But seriously. I've been in parties with some very good well-geared players, and everyone is thrilled when we break 8 minutes.

I think the real elephants in the room are the overpowered pets. I don't actually have a problem with them, but they are what turn a high damage, moderate health/armor rogue into a tank and allow for crazy insta-kill banish stacking. How many rogues have Nekro and SNS and a gazillion para gems? Not many.

[Tatman]

Egads. I'm so embarrassed. I've been going around thinking I was half decent for so long. :(

But seriously. I've been in parties with some very good well-geared players, and everyone is thrilled when we break 8 minutes.

I think the real elephants in the room are the overpowered pets. I don't actually have a problem with them, but they are what turn a high damage, moderate health/armor rogue into a tank and allow for crazy insta-kill banish stacking. How many rogues have Nekro and SNS and a gazillion para gems? Not many.
Go with a mauler, pierce at will when maul procs, come report your time. :)

[Kingofninjas]

Go with a mauler, pierce at will when maul procs, come report your time. :)

Exactly. With a good mauler, I have done arena duo in 5 minutes. No nekro no sns I have Sam and he has singe. He had a ring but a ring on a tank hardly counts for much in pve. All he was doing was spamming auto attack and axe and I was closing my eyes and spamming aimed nox sp to my hearts content. It's not hard.

[Alhuntrazeck]

If you replace your rogues with sorcerers in a clash, a mage can run 3 attack skills (and there's 2-3 of them). It outputs so much damage, along with 2 shields (Nekro + Arcane Shield) that they are very difficult to kill. If you try approaching one to kill, you get nuked by it. So yes, sorcerers are very OP in a clash.

Try playing a 3 mage clash at end game against a 1-2 rogue/sorc clash. The 3 mages usually wins.

Um, that sounds about right, doesn't it? Mages are a crowd control class and thus are better than rogues, the single target class, in PvP clashing.

Let's not kid ourselves though, rogues are still far more effective in dealing out damage and survive longer (thank you Nekro) - and stuns are also pretty much useless, again thanks to your friendly neighborhood Dino.

[Doobiez]

Lol rouge legends I agree with buffing warriors and Mage from what I seen from experience rouges are dominant in pve and pvp

[Dex Scene]

Lol rouge legends I agree with buffing warriors and Mage from what I seen from experience rouges are dominant in pve and pvp
4 good geared rogues and 4 good geared mages going for clash in tdm. Guess who will win?
pvp is not only about 1-1.
If you like to do 1-1 only then change your class. Mage is a crowd controller. You cant be a mage and expect to do 1-1 which is rogue's jobs.

[JohnnyHardcore]

This is absolute crap. I am a lvl41 mage with kershal...Now i dont have the best armor cause im waiting for the expansion but still rogues are overrated


This. All the buff/nerf threads need to stop this close to an expansion. How the heck do we know who is going to be OP or not once New mythic armies, possibly weapons, confirmed new arcane pet, and jewels system gets released?

Rhetorical. Nobody but the devs. We can't know. Just hypothesize. Now stop moaning about stat imbalances and put on your waiting hats again.

[Zeus]

Um, that sounds about right, doesn't it? Mages are a crowd control class and thus are better than rogues, the single target class, in PvP clashing.

Let's not kid ourselves though, rogues are still far more effective in dealing out damage and survive longer (thank you Nekro) - and stuns are also pretty much useless, again thanks to your friendly neighborhood Dino.

A maxed rogue does not survive longer than a maxed sorcerer in a clash unless sorcerer does not know what he/she is doing.

And no, with a Nekro on each side, it comes down to who has shields. Between Nekro Shield, Arcane Shied, & HOR, it is incredibly difficult to kill a sorcerer. A rogue cannot dive in because the nekro shield disappears within seconds and then is promptly nuked even if the warrior is exceptional at healing.

I haven't seen you clash in a while though,, so it's understandable why you've come to your conclusion.

I am not saying that a sorcerer should not be beneficial in a clash - it should. However, when it replaces the DPS class entirely in a clash, there is a problem.

The fact is that 3 sorcerers & 2 tanks inherently has a major advantage over any clash combination with a rogue included. The rogue, simply, is not needed anymore in a clash. The combination of debuffs, rogue happiness bonus & PvP debuff allows a sorcerer to hit nearly as hard as the rogue in clash.

[Spacetime Or Lol]

Actually wars have great advantage in pvp cuz other classes hav e less armour and warrs don't have that bad ofdmg so the weak or our is penetrated a little easily (acc to me I'm no pro)