Improved Economy?

[Energizeric]

I just wanted to say that the AL economy has been hugely improved since last week's expansion release.

Many players will notice the declining prices of all the arcane pets and arcane shards. However, what has accompanied them is an increase in the price of farmable items such as vials and bars.

Once before in a discussion I suggested that the most exclusive items in the game should be farmable, but require a really long and difficult grind to get. Much of the feedback I received in that post was that these items would become very common because no matter how hard the grind, tons of players would be willing to do it.

However, that is exactly what improves the game, when tons of players are playing long hours and always farming.

What many of you may have noticed is the inverse pricing relationship that crafting items have within a particular recipe. For example, when the price of an arcane shard drops, the price of the dragonite bar goes up. Why? The arcane ring is still the best ring in the game, so demand for the ring has not changed. So when more shards are on the market, the limiting factor for crafting a ring no longer is the supply of shards, but instead is now the supply of bars. And because these can be farmed, it creates tons of opportunities for any player who is willing to grind to earn a nice amount of gold.

Likewise, the same inverse relationship is seen with the arcane fossil and vials. As plenty of fossils are on the market for sale, the limiting factor for crafting Nekro eggs has become the supply of vials, another item which can be farmed.

So while this will indeed result in more arcane rings and Nekro pets being in circulation, I think it is a good thing for the game!

In the future I would like to see more top tier exclusive items structured in this same way. Let one crafting component come from locked crates, but make them common enough so that the limiting factor for crafting is instead an item that can be farmed, but not easily. Adding new items like this on a regular basis will keep farming alive and well, something that we missed much of the last year.

[Zynzyn]

Totally agree. And thanks sts for thinking of innovative win-win ways of implementing the community''s feedback.

[Hanschey]

its best of both worlds right now, while plat users can obtain some plat exclusive items,farmers can still have a decent amount of gold thru farming these vials and dragonite bar and off course rengol crates.

[Ssneakykills]

I must say its worked very well and people are spoilt for choices on where to farm too

So much so I'm probably going to gear my rogue and cap him :)

[Newcomx]

Big improvement if I must say, I can see a lot of my guild-mates online now, farming and trading, not just chatting and bard quest. Thank you for the change!!

[Wazakesy]

i still wanted that frost singe idea of yours to be implemented....

[Kingofninjas]

Agreed. I've actually managed to make some reasonable amounts of gold WITHOUT merching. All you gotta do is farm.

[carmine_blade]

It's a good thing. I got the ingredients for crafting Nekro from farming and a little judicious merching.

[Bidiel]

I agree with you , this game is supposed to be a free to play , but only the person who spend real money can get good things , then it becomes a pay to win , that hae not many people want to play without but if things could farmear faces as you say with hard work and dedication over time , then many people will want to play , then sales of these objects would be few because they require a great effort, but the truth is that nothing will change , because the game is more focused on people want to spend their money in real life to be the best no matter the people who do not spend money.

[Edward Coug]

I agree with you , this game is supposed to be a free to play , but only the person who spend real money can get good things , then it becomes a pay to win , that hae not many people want to play without but if things could farmear faces as you say with hard work and dedication over time , then many people will want to play , then sales of these objects would be few because they require a great effort, but the truth is that nothing will change , because the game is more focused on people want to spend their money in real life to be the best no matter the people who do not spend money.

If you made this claim a few months ago, I'd have more sympathy, but it's really easy to make gold now. Here's a hint. Instead of opening the locks you loot, sell them. It's very lucrative.

Or you can farm dragonite bars.

[Caabatric]

I agree with you , this game is supposed to be a free to play , but only the person who spend real money can get good things , then it becomes a pay to win , that hae not many people want to play without but if things could farmear faces as you say with hard work and dedication over time , then many people will want to play , then sales of these objects would be few because they require a great effort, but the truth is that nothing will change , because the game is more focused on people want to spend their money in real life to be the best no matter the people who do not spend money.

Have you seen the crazy amounts of gold people have been making off of farming locks...
I know people who are making close to 1m a day....
Personally, I am finally seeing my gold bank grow quite considerably....
I think that pay users who are unwilling to farm have barely any edge over players farming....

[Bidiel]

Have you seen the crazy amounts of gold people have been making off of farming locks...
I know people who are making close to 1m a day....
Personally, I am finally seeing my gold bank grow quite considerably....
I think that pay users who are unwilling to farm have barely any edge over players farming....

ikr and that is really good cause now we can get some of gold and buy cheapper things like the arcane shard only for 2.5-3.5m XD and try hard to get the drag bar XD that is really good thing cause farmers can get now good gears :3

[BottleNexz]

o true
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[Dalmony]

Spot on... the game is in a better place right now that it has been for a long time. For the first time ever people are very much not rushing to cap but preferring to take it slower and make the most of the farming opportunities.

Everyone is so excited about the prospect that these items are within reach that they have become majorly active... if the economy stays in a similar state I think a lot more players will remain active even after the "expansion hype" wears off in a couple of months.

[Titanfall]

I must say its worked very well and people are spoilt for choices on where to farm too

So much so I'm probably going to gear my rogue and cap him :)
Teach me how to get a male rogue please [emoji14]

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[epicrrr]

Im seeing a lot more people with arcane pet! A good sign that almost everyone have gold to spend so more items will circulate. A good time to sell.

[KingMartin]

I could not agree more! While couple of weeks ago it was in gc like "T3 three slots for daily" and exceptionally "arena?", now there are so many things to farm that I wish I was an octopus and could run on all my three classes in the same time. Jewels farming, vials farming, Orc tags farming, supply farming, teeth farming...

Intentional or not, the increased supply of arcanes was a great idea!!! Couple of millions is still not for everybody but it tremendously increased motivation of many to farm.

I hope those crazy prices will never return. And I dare to guess that the astronomic prices were not just due to scarcity as many famous hoarders and market manipulators stated. I think now many shards and fossils appeared on the market that were former just kept in the pockets of some to make them look "scarce".

Good job STS!!! I thank you on behalf of all our hard-working guildies that are now surrounded by arcane circle followed by a white-green dragon!!! :)

[Kakashis]

Yes, this was the way the economy should have been right from the get go and not just a few players with 200m own the best items. I for one have been farming hard these last few days in whatever generates gold!

[Newcomx]

I could not agree more! While couple of weeks ago it was in gc like "T3 three slots for daily" and exceptionally "arena?", now there are so many things to farm that I wish I was an octopus and could run on all my three classes in the same time. Jewels farming, vials farming, Orc tags farming, supply farming, teeth farming...

Intentional or not, the increased supply of arcanes was a great idea!!! Couple of millions is still not for everybody but it tremendously increased motivation of many to farm.

I hope those crazy prices will never return. And I dare to guess that the astronomic prices were not just due to scarcity as many famous hoarders and market manipulators stated. I think now many shards and fossils appeared on the market that were former just kept in the pockets of some to make them look "scarce".

Good job STS!!! I thank you on behalf of all our hard-working guildies that are now surrounded by arcane circle followed by a white-green dragon!!! :)

Keeping players and adding new players to play this game is should be STS priority, income will follow. That why I agree with this new system, keeping price "reasonable" not crazy buyer price.

[Imsofancy]

Exactly what the game needed at exactly the right time, mages are getting more booty calls then rogues now, I am 1/4 away from obtaining an arcane pet (my game goal) and everyone has a fair chance to obtain a good amount of gold without time pressure of a holiday event, I can farm for a few hours everyday instead of grinding for 24 hours on a single day and literally feel the brain cells in me explode.

Well done STS.

[MayaNatsume]

Well done STS. ^^

[KingMartin]

I'd like to have gear and pets to save towards again.

If you want fun, try this: New account, no plat, no funds sharing from your other account. Try to max the toon if it's so easy. You probably don't realize that people that can afford Nekro and arcane ring are still a significant minority.

This sounds to me as if Warrent Buffet sits with Carlos Slim and Bill Gates and says, hey, the world is boring, everyone can afford everything.

Sure, some people lost huge amounts of money. But that's the price for trying to skew the small closed AL economy.

I am pretty sure it will not be easy to faarm the new 46 myths... so, you will have for sure something to save for unless you have still 200M on your account.

[acewasabi]

i finally got arcane after 7 months of farming, and made most of my gold in expansion. it was impossible to make any real money before. this rain of gold is like a reward for those who play when expansion first hit. prices for things will drop soon enough and then we'll be doing the long hard grind for 46 mythics. i think sts got it just right :)

most ppl still dont have nekro and ring- but even "lower class" arcanes are better than none. sure, big spenders will want to stay OP. but that's extremely discouraging for new players who are 100m behind the 8-ball. maybe the mega rich players had your time in the sun (and a long time too) and it's a chance for everyone else to catch up.

[Pillowhead]

I'm still using epic rings and amulets, trash armor and helmet.
I'm just playing for fun now =)! and I've been here since S2 now and I'm holding on 20k gold.

[Newcomx]

Been there done that.

Not everyone likes to come back to an economy where something they spent hours and hours of farming has been devalued in no time.

Yes, there are tons of players who always want something to farm/do but there are also tons of players who buy gear to farm over a longer time frame. Not everyone can be in touch with the game throughout the year. Honestly I would prefer having a few items which hold their value maybe over 1-2 years and the edge of these super-pricey items get devalued slowly(and steadily) over time so as to have players who go ape over maps for a few hours/weeks over a the month/season.

Some people lost HUGE amounts of money, agreed but loads of people also made HUGE amounts of money over the past year. All the past years events and updates have made farming for the f2p viable and profitable. Maybe not as much as the p2p player or the veteran player but money was easier to come by than in 2013.

I agree with energizics OP about how the economy is actually better, everyone well geared means I have more people to farm/run maps with but this also makes the game boring. Shiny's post points out a major concern of mine too, how long do you think this economy will last? All good things come to an end and making gear easily available to everyone makes sure people realise investing in gear to farm is less profitable than investing in gold/secondary tier items to hoard.

Personally think we should have something to hold on to(*hugs elon gun* my preciooousssss). No one wants to have to constantly strive for the top gear, a little breathing space really helps take out the stress for many people. Whereas some people think its de-stressing to constantly strive for better gear.

for the TL;DR Gear should be outdated but not so quickly. Or soon just hoarding gold for items will be better than buying items.

I've bought Samael for 11 mil 2 months ago after collecting gold for months. Now only 3 mil. I've lost a lot of gold, but I'm happy with the current system.

[Kakashis]

Token system should keep the best items obtainable at more down to earth prices. The fact that these items need a farming element like bars and vials makes the game economy perfectly balanced. A ring / best pet costing 10m should have been the highest price it would have reached. The 100m+ were most like caused by market manipulation which is something the token system addresses. I love this new system. Even if I have no time to farm, $200 almost guarantees that I will get it regardless! So much better than just drooling over the best stuff that only 1% had last season.

Farming will get you there as it always should have been. Props to STS for finding a way to close the gap between rich and poor.

[Edward Coug]

I love the falling prices (it's both hurt and helped me). The only thing I don't like about the new economy is how farming locks is the best way to make gold now. That will change when the new elites come and we can farm for the new mythic set (and locks wills eventually plummet anyway, only rising again with events, plat sales, new pet releases, and the like).

[Oursizes]

Token system should keep the best items obtainable at more down to earth prices. The fact that these items need a farming element like bars and vials makes the game economy perfectly balanced. A ring / best pet costing 10m should have been the highest price it would have reached. The 100m+ were most like caused by market manipulation which is something the token system addresses. I love this new system. Even if I have no time to farm, $200 almost guarantees that I will get it regardless! So much better than just drooling over the best stuff that only 1% had last season.

Farming will get you there as it always should have been. Props to STS for finding a way to close the gap between rich and poor.

Yes this pretty much sums it up. Its actually reasonable to get arcanes and such now. Before I could in no way afford even a mythic but right now I have a maridos, planar amulet, and my stats are pretty close to a full mythic rogue(not 50 paras and stuff). I am now working my way towards a nekro as its actually possible. As for market manipulation, when people heard drop rates were "nerfed" some top rich players bought all shards and the price is still about the same. So now we know who to really blame for items costing that much before

[Energizeric]

In my opinion, this is a type of socialism. Why not just get rid of all of the gear and pets in the game and we all farm just to save gold and not buy anything with it?

I mean, what's the point if we're all gonna have Arcane rings and Nekro. This game used to take a combination of farming and spending plat in order to save for months and months to buy the best gear. Now farm km3 for a week and you have a fullly maxed toon.

The only difference now between players is who can afford to put all Para gems and Eyes.

I know this is not a popular view but there's some truth here. I'd like to have gear and pets to save towards again.

The gems are going to be the item that keeps us all working for a long time. And I suspect the new level 46 mythics are not going to be easy to craft and will take quite some time, and will also have a high price attached to them. Give it some time....

[Edward Coug]

That's like putting a 5 gallon container by your front door and dumping your pennies and nickels into it every day when you walk into the house. I suppose when a Mercedes Benz suddenly costs $350, you can afford to buy one with some pocket change.

It's just my opinion, but this sort of stuff is why I quit playing Order & Chaos a few years ago. There was way too much grinding, just like jewel farming and trying to get rich one dragkin tooth at a time.

I suppose we all just have to wait and see.

Jewels should have offered better stats (especially chaos and lightning). That's a big part of the problem. Kind of a let down when you grind for a jewel that is inferior to an old gem. I get why they did it, but it doesn't put the para gem -- I mean toothpaste back in the tube.

[Niixed]

That's like putting a 5 gallon container by your front door and dumping your pennies and nickels into it every day when you walk into the house. I suppose when a Mercedes Benz suddenly costs $350, you can afford to buy one with some pocket change.

It's just my opinion, but this sort of stuff is why I quit playing Order & Chaos a few years ago. There was way too much grinding, just like jewel farming and trying to get rich one dragkin tooth at a time.

I suppose we all just have to wait and see.

Disagree that this is socialism, this is capitalism working well. Prices have dropped dramatically because there's now an abundance of a supply that was formerly very very limited. By increasing the supply, STS has made mythics and arcanes affordable to middle class players willing to put hours into grinding. It was previously impossible or extremely impractical to afford anything even if you did put hours into grinding. How was it ok for arcane prices to be at 100M, 50M, or even 20M?? I see nothing wrong with recent arcanes and mythics staying within the 3 to 17 million gold price range.

Socialism would be STS deciding which group of players they favor to receive arcanes and mythics they deem necessary. As more players keep farming, locked and jewel prices will drop and farmers will adapt to farming items which yield the most profit. This situation is truly awesome. STS has made the smartest move possible, and executed it shockingly well. Don't be surprised if they adjust drop rates or whatnot to steer items to a price range that makes the game sustainable and attractive to players who, as a group, actually spend the most money. The big spenders have nothing on the middle class when in comes to group purchasing power.

Yes, many top players are now going to feel less exclusive, but how was it ok for so few to totally dominate the game and have so much influence? The truth is it wasn't ever ok and those players need to deal with the fact that the game would never have survived if things had continued as they were before. Now there's going to be a top 10% - 15% instead of a top 1%-3%. That's NOT bad, it's VERY good.

[Edward Coug]

That is not capitalism, that is a form of socialism. We do not own anything in this game. The market did not crash on it's own. STS stripped the value out of items like arcane rings and redistributed that wealth by making it 1.5m in the span of 1 week. Capitalism would have been that Mr. Thundryz saved his gold and purchased an Arcane Ring at full price and then saved his gold to purchase a Nekro.

I already said in other threads that I'm fine with it. I also already said that we'll just have to wait and see. So, let's wait and see.

STS controls the market. There was never capitalism in the first place. And I must say I love it how anything that isn't capitalism must be socialism.

STS did not redistribute the wealth. They changed how the market worked. They did not tax the rich or redistribute property. They completely changed the economy.

Did those darn socialists at STS start redistributing the gold from the auction tax to the lower-income players? If they did, nobody told me about it.

[Energizeric]

That's like putting a 5 gallon container by your front door and dumping your pennies and nickels into it every day when you walk into the house. I suppose when a Mercedes Benz suddenly costs $350, you can afford to buy one with some pocket change.

It's just my opinion, but this sort of stuff is why I quit playing Order & Chaos a few years ago. There was way too much grinding, just like jewel farming and trying to get rich one dragkin tooth at a time.

I suppose we all just have to wait and see.

I don't know why so may people have this mentality that they must farm the items they need. Just farm whatever you want to farm, then sell the items you farmed, and buy what you need.

You don't have to loot 2100 jewels to craft a noble gem. You can farm dragkin teeth, sell your dragonite bar, and then purchase a few thousand jewels. Or when elites come out, you can farm new legendary gear, sell it, and buy what you need.

You have really good gear, so I get that you are not interested in grinding and instead would rather farm the very difficult dungeons for the big payday. Well that is fine. But many other players who have lousy gear and do not buy plat would rather grind the easier dungeons and not rely on inconsistent luck to try to win the jackpot. So if they put in the time farming jewels or teeth or orc tags, or whatever, then they can earn some gold too. So there are lots of ways now to earn gold, which was the point I made in the original post.

And BTW, I'm sure players are not going to be opening locked crates at the current pace forever. So I would expect many of these arcane items to go up in price somewhat after the initial rush. This has happened before in the past, although perhaps not to this extreme, but we have seen prices drop down and then go way back up during events and after locked crate sales. I can remember seeing Samael eggs selling for 15m, only to see them back over 30m a couple of months later. It would not surprise me to see this again.