Higher level players looking down on slighly lower players [Archive]

nazgulking

04-25-2011, 05:23 AM

Hi there folks!

Today I was hosting some swill pitz runs, first joins a random lvl 54 mage stating "Don't boot me, I am awesome". He did just fine and we cleared at least two runs without a swept. After a guy named Weoban, lvl 54, was quick enough to join and asked if he could stay. I've said sure. We did like 5 runs (one of which we destroyed 4 totems he needed for quest) and he was so happy I didn't booted him. He stated also that other people were booting him saying that he's useless. I told him as soon as he helps the group I won't boot him. And so we did 5 runs togheter happily.
I really don't understand people booting with these stupid reasons. I mean he's level 54, he's a bird, so dps machine ftw. People went as far as saying he's useless (stupid reason as much as "You smell funny"). Some level 55-56 should just get down from the pedestal and be more humble with lower level people (I mean just 1 level lower than maximum level, Come on!). I've felt so sorry for him and I had some funny moments with him and other lower players (There was also a lvl 53 bear too that was a plain win btw).
Be more watchful of how you treat other people, unless you want to be treated the same way back.

Rant delivered.

Mageprodigy

04-25-2011, 05:59 AM

I totally agree with you! The difference between the 51 and 55 gears isnt big at all so why boot -55?

Corpser

04-25-2011, 06:23 AM

because of the reason of maybe they want friends.

i know a guy who booted birds nothing else just birds

davidis57

04-25-2011, 06:29 AM

Most of the game runs I do are from being invited. I don't like intruding so I hunt when I get invited.

Ellyidol

04-25-2011, 06:36 AM

I agree, but it goes both ways too.

Take for example earlier in PvP, I was doing well against another bear throughout the 10 kills. The next game he joins my team and says "Oh, your 56, no wonder". And he was 55. -.-

I don't see a difference between 50-56 except gear, but even then the 51-56 gear doesn't make a player. The only actual time I don't hesitate in booting is when some 20-30 player comes in, but that's been dealt with :)

RedRyder

04-25-2011, 06:40 AM

I don't even host my games lol. It's always invites.

nazgulking

04-25-2011, 06:58 AM

LordEspe

04-25-2011, 07:07 AM

innovateer

04-25-2011, 07:19 AM

A person booted my lvl 52 bear with reason "na". I replied to give more meaningful reasons for booting. He said I was low level. I replied that my level is correct for any BS map. Then He replied that he doesn't know me. I've said that to know a person, first you have to meet him/her. Then he stated that he wants only to meet lvl 55 or upper people. I leave to you all conclusions.... Very dissapointed -_-

I was there when he booted you and I thought it was odd because I'm a lvl 52 bird. He booted a few more bears later on so I think that was the real reason. But I totally agree with your original point. I never boot unless I think someone is spoiling the run for the others e.g. by constantly asking questions about gear in the middle of fights, hanging back to leech or being ridiculously low level (lvl 1 in AO1 LOL). I always give one or two warnings first though. My favourite tactic for leechers is to walk back and hang with them outside the room, makes them aware that I know what they're doing. They usually either leave or get into the party and play properly.

Lesrider

04-25-2011, 07:37 AM

Xenzix

04-25-2011, 07:51 AM

As I posted previously... I got booted for 'not' being 56 for hideout run....

Was ridiculous and I quite eloquently said so (new list may not agree but I wasn't offensive)...

StompArtist

04-25-2011, 07:53 AM

Got booted yesterday on my 54 for being too low in hideout. Right.

icantgetkills

04-25-2011, 08:25 AM

Yeah durIng the vyxnaar craze, I join one cave and the host, 56, said 55/56 only and booted all under!! I didn't play that one!! I know it's been said before but, LVL Is nothing compared to skill!! I've seen LVL 50's with more kills than 55/56 players!! More kills more experience IMO!

Disagree I have 20k kills on bird and only 4k on Mage ;D and my Mage is pro lol kills always matter as long as the person plays there class well

Fawayleik

04-25-2011, 08:29 AM

For Swill Pitz, Roach Motel and Shadow Cave it is an Advantage to be 55/56 cuz of ur gear and dps.
But it is not nice to boot. Thats true. I would do locked games and invite buddys. Open Games are for everyone in range.
But on the other side is that some low lvl leave game shortly before Fever ?! ( last run 4 left shortly before )
Not nice!

Wicked Caccavari

04-25-2011, 08:52 AM

I get booted all the times from Balefort Sewer runs because of the 55/56 elitists.

I'm level 54 by the way but it's been like that all through the 50s.

NeoQueen

04-25-2011, 09:03 AM

I seriously hate the "Low Level" excuse unless it applied to level 20s in Oasis, or something similar. I was running the caves once and there were 2 level 50s when I joined. Then, another player said "Boot the 50s" They were then booted and I asked the host why they were booted. Host said they were making room for friends, other dude said cause they were too low. If you are in a game and don't like who is there then leave. No one said the host should boot to make you happy, better yet, host your OWN game. On the other hand, if you keep booting because you want to run with friends then make a closed game with a common pasword all your friends know. I am personally of the opinion that if you make an open game you should just run with everyone, friend who you like, then make closed games. Problem solved.

Wicked Caccavari

04-25-2011, 09:17 AM

Players should lock their games if it's for friends only.

nazgulking

04-25-2011, 10:00 AM

Funny, Nazgulking, bc you booted me from the shadow caves with my lvl 51 Mage for being too low -_-'
Yeah, I know, there must be a HUGE difference between 51 and 53...

I wouldn't have said anything, but if you're going to pretend to be so noble, make sure you haven't booted forum users before announcing your benevolence.

First, you didn't read at all my post. My rant was about the player beign booted but not before beign cussed. They have told him that he's useless. I don't think that I did that to you, so my post is legitimate. Second, I've ranted about the nonsense of the reasons for booting, like the "na" I have stated before, I think I have booted you with the reason "Low level, sorry" or across that lines. You may like it or not but at least I gave an understable reason, so again I'm coherent to my post.
Regarding what I have done to you, I may say that I'm sorry, since the real reason why I have booted you was that I was waiting from a player from the previous game. In a hurry I gave you the reason for the low player and I'm sorry for that. At least I realize my mistake, but, again, I've never ever said anything nasty to anyone, and I'm proud of that. If you want we can meet in town and, as a sign of good will, I can give you for free a pink recipe from BS, so we can get along again and forget about this incident. :)

LADYHADASSA

04-25-2011, 10:06 AM

This subject has been touched on before and in the recent past.. Again many many players have been power lvld. And do not have game skill, no matter the lvl

So often i have said to players you have not a clue whonyou are booting... What i mean by that is simple, some very skilled players have lower accounts.

I to have a lvl 51 account and the booter makes this forum post?!? ... Hmmm.....

I will say this again i would run sewer with a group of lvl 51's any day vs an all 55-56 team. And i would take a lvl 30 experienced player potted over others in the lvl ( this is now not possible but was)

The note on booting bears... I personaly like one tank in a map, to have 3 tanks working agaginst one another and the team is frusutrating, stomping the bosses outnof range so they run and refill, making the mkbs scatter, and causing other players skills to be waited as they bounce bosses around the room. On occasion a coiplemtanks who know how to work of one another and balance skills, Pricless!! These two can pin a boss and keep it there, but due to inexperience and lack of teachability and lackmof teaching this does not happen often.

Bottom line booting is going to happen with various reasons good and bad. Just go to another game.
If a farming team is not flowing it is time to put together a new one, in sewer if it takes 10 min to kill the king and queen the chances are there is not enough dps, causing players to search for skilled players.

The last note, many players who complain about being booted with such reasons as their lvl is to low.... Many refuse to work as a team member crews are run diffrentley it is listening skills... If the admin asks people to wait then wait you joined their game... There are a few players that have complained in forums that i myself have booted, instead of allowing the player to be flamed, or being ignorant just a simple full team on the way will do. Most of the time uppers are willing to teach other players, but somtimes we just want to play the game and not have to instruct and guide the whole way.

Just food for thought

Be carful when pointing fingers because 10 may be pointing back at you....

nazgulking

04-25-2011, 10:10 AM

Be careful when pointing fingers because 10 may be pointing back at you....

Its' actually 3 of 'em :P

LADYHADASSA

04-25-2011, 10:25 AM

Its' actually 3 of 'em :P

Lol 3 is the minimum from a Biblical perspective, in general there is more than one person involved :)

Kalielle

04-25-2011, 10:31 AM

I remember one run back when Shadow caves were really really hard. We had a level 48 mage in AO2 gear in our random group and the rest of the people were 55ish. I was tank and trying to pull bosses individually and most of the rest of the team was just rushing ahead or sitting there on top of me drawing random aggro and getting killed (even after I told them to sit and wait), but the 48 mage was staying back and always asking about strategy and was often the only one left alive to rez the other mages. Eventually two people left and the level 48 stayed with a level 55 bird and me and we finished the map, and we didn't even use elixirs as I recall.

Point is, skill counts a whole deal more than a difference of a few levels.

CrimsonTider

04-25-2011, 11:29 AM

This is becoming a bigger issue than many realize. I join many games when my friends are either busy or not on. This gives me a chance to interact with new people and learn new things. Lately, I have seen a large increase in unnecessary booting, booting without a sufficient explanation, and 55-56's with a false sense of empowerment. When I ask why the booting is occuring and I feel the excuse is unwarranted, I leave myself.

People need to realize this game is for fun.... only. It should also be restated not all 55+ are GREAT players and some lower lvls can hold their own. An example: last night I joined a Stronghold game with a 52, 51, and a 49. After about 6 people came and left, I told them I would lead. Soon after a lvl 55 (Maybin) joined the fight. We died a couple of times but cleared the level and actually took care of the king and queen faster than some "elite" levels I have played with.

Bottom line... it's a game. Remember: we were all "noobs" at some point and ALL of us can learn from someone else, regardless of level.

Arterra

04-25-2011, 11:36 AM

My level 51 bird is pure win. But I know I can't use it.
:(

Lesrider

04-25-2011, 11:40 AM

Nazgulking, I don't need you to give me anything.
I just thought it was ironic you were reprimanding people for booting others under lvl 55.

Sharisiggies

04-25-2011, 11:40 AM

ahhh Weoban is one of my friends... I ALWAYS let him in, totally not useless as a player with either character.. and he is a nice person.

I do feel bad when people boot for no reason what so ever... if you ARE a host, and have a group.. tell me and I'll leave, no reason to boot.

neko

04-25-2011, 11:48 AM

Call it what it is: stereotyping

Unless you know the player, they have just your level (and if they even bother to look, your gear) to go on to "judge" your experience level. Just about everyone is trying to get through levels and bosses as quickly as possible. My suggestion is that you should simply go into a PUG with lowered expectations. If your character is a lower level, expect to be booted. If you're a bear, expect to be booted. If you wear a certain Big Luck, expect to be booted.

Do I blame them? For someone I'm unfamiliar with, I simply don't put much effort anymore in trying to understand their motives. They'll have their reasons and I won't stick around to try. The best argument is the one that's avoided.

I'm not too far from my third 56 and I think I've seen my share of player mistreatment. One last suggestion is to please DO NOT repeat/do onto others as how you've been mistreated. Don't propagate the hate.

nazgulking

04-25-2011, 11:48 AM

Les, again that was not the point of my post. I don't rant about booting lower levels. I rant about lvl 55-56s that mob lower level players :) Plus I've said it would be nice that people spend 2 seconds more to write a boot reason, instead of a "na" which doesn't mean anything.

Snakespeare

04-25-2011, 12:18 PM

nazgul, give it up... you're pwned! LOL

As to the OT, I think it is partly the GCD to blame for this. Pre-GCD you could do Goblin King with a party of 50/51s. Pre-GCD we had many of these "Level 51 parties". It is no longer possible.

When the devs asked for specific feedback, they focused on how long it takes to run the maps. But that only measured the time it takes to cut through the mobs. If instead they tested with parties WITHIN THE LEVELS OF THE CAMPAIGN, they would discover that level 51 and level 53 is no longer capable of killing CERTAIN bosses. Especially in the case of Goblin King, the entire party, even with birds, can not take down the totem when it turns green.

This is not true of Hideout, however, I have been having similar failures in there, too. People will quit at the boss now, so smaller groups have to try to beat the bosses, then people join but don't make it to the boss before the party wipes and half the players leave. It's really very humbling, but not in a good way.

The game is in transition. People are learning that they want to grind to 55 while skipping bosses. Can you blame them? You have to pay plat for elixirs now. Party wipes are very common now. And the pinks don't drop. Who needs another useless orange item for the price of several plat (multiple times) and ten minutes of trying to cajole people into staying for the boss fight?

So there are three types of game now. Grinding, where they skip the boss, and level 48 to 54 are doing this. Boss hunting, where they join grinding games with the abandoned bosses (even easier than rushing), and Level Cap games where they play as if GCD never happened. If you join a Level Cap game when your intention is to grind, you'll probably get booted for being too low.

My suggestion to the devs still stands. Provide a means for us to tag our games with the levels and classes we are seeking, and even with a choice between farming, grinding, or clearing. Then people will know that they are welcome in some games, not welcome in others, and this whole boot-to-create-the-ideal-party behavior will become a thing of the past.

Of course, they could also try beating the bosses with 5 level 51s, and again with 5 level 53s, just incase it reveals that some buffs are still too high in the post-GCD system.

StompArtist

04-25-2011, 12:20 PM

I get booted all the times from Balefort Sewer runs because of the 55/56 elitists.

I'm level 54 by the way but it's been like that all through the 50s.

Worst part is that I know of plenty of lower level players (early 50s) who literally clear BS like a walk in the park while some 55+ are still struggling with it. Sad really because these players end up limiting who they see play and on a bunch of elite players who simply haven't reached 55 yet.

I stuck with a party over the weekend of people 49 to 54 (54 being me) but mostly 52s and had a blast. After they left I ran with some 55s and I can vouch that they could have learned a lot from the 49 bear I ran with earlier. Stats and gear do not make up for great skills.

nazgulking

04-25-2011, 12:24 PM

What do you mean with pwned, snake? No one ever throws coffins at me from the sky :P

Arterra

04-25-2011, 12:38 PM

What do you mean with pwned, snake? No one ever throws coffins at me from the sky :P

You sir, got a paink point. Turned it around with 0 resentment.

StompArtist

04-25-2011, 12:39 PM

You sir, got a paink point. Turned it around with 0 resentment.

A paink?

Arterra

04-25-2011, 12:46 PM

A paink?

A paink indeed.

StompArtist

04-25-2011, 12:47 PM

A paink indeed.

And may I inquire on what a paink actually is???

Snakespeare

04-25-2011, 12:54 PM

What do you mean with pwned, snake? No one ever throws coffins at me from the sky :P

Let's just say, you were not slain by the hand of man...

DaiJue

04-25-2011, 12:55 PM

I booted someone off of my game yesterday (for the first time) because he kept asking for help (I was at the boss and he was at the starting point and he kept dying, I eventually backtracked to save him), and he asked me for both potions. And when I gave him 50 HP and 25 Mana potions (which was pretty generous in my opinion) he had the nerve to ask me for 100 more of each.

StompArtist

04-25-2011, 12:56 PM

nazgulking

04-25-2011, 01:02 PM

Slained, snake? O_o
Sob, people are trying to kill me :(

Arterra

04-25-2011, 01:32 PM

And may I inquire on what a paink actually is???

a paink is whatever you want it to be, in pink quality. my personal paink points are not self given, they are BS pinks. but i can give painks for people who's posts approach pink quality ;)

nazgulking

04-25-2011, 01:46 PM

This means you will give me a BS pink? ;)

Arterra

04-25-2011, 01:48 PM

hah you wish. just telling you you posted a pink quality message there.

Duped

04-25-2011, 02:13 PM

nazgul, give it up... you're pwned! LOL

As to the OT, I think it is partly the GCD to blame for this. Pre-GCD you could do Goblin King with a party of 50/51s. Pre-GCD we had many of these "Level 51 parties". It is no longer possible.

..........If instead they tested with parties WITHIN THE LEVELS OF THE CAMPAIGN, they would discover that level 51 and level 53 is no longer capable of killing CERTAIN bosses. Especially in the case of Goblin King, the entire party, even with birds, can not take down the totem when it turns green.

This is not true of Hideout, however, I have been having similar failures in there, too. People will quit at the boss now, so smaller groups have to try to beat the bosses, then people join but don't make it to the boss before the party wipes and half the players leave. It's really very humbling, but not in a good way.

Of course, they could also try beating the bosses with 5 level 51s, and again with 5 level 53s, just incase it reveals that some buffs are still too high in the post-GCD system.

The idea that Goblin or any other BS boss can't be beat by a team of 51's is not true. We do it regularly and quickly in our 51 farm runs. A couple nights ago, with a group of 3 archers and two mages we got GC before even needing to attack totem. We then repeated about 2 or 3 more times at least.

The new archer to the group said, "I've never seen him die that fast." It's ALL about skill.

Snakespeare

04-25-2011, 02:31 PM

MY POINTS are:

There are now three different kinds of games in Sewers:
1. Grinding: levels 50 to 54
2. Farming: levels 55 and 56 mostly
3. Clearing: rare and hardcore, usually level cappers

If you are grinding and you enter a farming game, you get booted for being too low. This has been going on since long before Sewers. It only started happening now in Sewers because... this is my second point...

1. Elixirs now cost plat
2. More people are bailing out at boss so the boss fights don't have full parties.
3. Boss fights take a lot longer.

Please don't quote one example, refute it, and ignore the relation of my post to the actual topic. Especially when it's true for most people but not for you because you can recruit a skilled group.

p.s. Add me... LOL I have a level 51 bear named Corelli and I know how to tank.

Lesrider

04-25-2011, 02:37 PM

This is a problem then -- people should not have to wait for lvl 55-56 to farm. I despise grinding (CtK runs at lvl 47-49ish were the most grueling for me), and will not play just for xp anymore. I will never again skip a boss just to get xp faster.

Snakespeare

04-25-2011, 02:43 PM

That's how it was pre-GCD, Les. But now that elixirs cost plat, people are bailing at the boss. And that's why high levels are booting low levels. High level players don't need plat to beat a boss. It's back to that again, grinding and farming, the way it was in AO3 when you'd get booted and they didn't even have to say why. Now they do, but the answer is the same: different motives.

And I really think if you could look at games and read if the host intends to grind, farm, or clear, it will be a lot easier to find the game that is right for you, and there will be less booting.

AnotherAzi

04-25-2011, 04:28 PM

It's all about the particular player, not the level. I do 51 farming runs with Duped on my 52 bird and we can kill all the Sewers bosses with no problem. When I play with PUGs of all 55s and 56s, including birds, I still wind up with aggro on my 52 bird because I know how to deal more damage.

The idea that players from 50-54 can't do anything in the Sewers is a gross overgeneralization. Some players are good. Some players are bad. Try to play with people before you judge their skill based solely on level.