PvP Ideas

[Xanthia]

Ok, I have a few suggestions that I believe need to be fixed rather quickly! I know that some have already been brought up. However I am going to write them again.

1. There needs to be a spawn zone where the other team is not able to access. The spawn killing is getting excessive, and it really deters me from wanting to play PvP!

2. As I have stated before, classes should be restricted to CLASS SPECIFIC Weapons! Though, it is very unique and very cool, it is abusing the system and ultimately making the devs make more rules.

3. Games should NEVER start until each time has 5 players on each side.

4. There should be a lobby area where the teams must remain until the game is full.

5. Make SURE that when you respawn, you respawn in the spawn area (Refer to #1, unaccessible to the opposite team)

6. REDUCE LAG, it is TERRIBLE RIGHT NOW

Until all of these things have been corrected, PvP will never be great!

I would love feedback! -- Thanks for all the great work PL Staff, Special Thx Cinco

[Sayishere]

agree with all of them, the one i want the most is 6.

the lag is so bad right now, the game would have a great pvp experience, there must be a way to lower it

and also the spawn killing, my god, its quite frustrating also, although its still early yet, hope they fix it asap though

[Hraefn]

2. As I have stated before, classes should be restricted to CLASS SPECIFIC Weapons! Though, it is very unique and very cool, it is abusing the system and ultimately making the devs make more rules.


Have the devs declared elves using bows or birds wielding swords to be an abuse of the system. What new rules have the devs needed to make? I see Cinco proposing to buff the enchantress class. I see you trying to make new rules.

If this game turns into everyone playing virtually, identical builds, it will hold no interest for me. I prefer a complex game with challenging issues pertaining to balance over a overly simple but "perfectly balanced" game.

And, yeah, the LAG is the biggest problem right now. It negates player skill and makes PvP no fun.

[Diz]

I feel an invuln shield for 3 seconds after spawn would be better than worrying about perfecting bases or spawn spots, etc. At least for now... it'd probably be easier to get in as a balanced mechanic.

Class specific weapons, eh... I'm not so sure. Either way, I'm really not concerned. But are you also including class specific armor in that statement?

There are several ways of making the beginning of a round more practical, and triggering off of a full-teams check is one of them.

Lag could be a work in progress as they refine and polish net coding for all the actions and movements going on during PvP. A lot of it is dynamic and not just as easy to send as mob AI.

[Xanthia]

Are you saying that EQ2 is boring because they require you to wear class specific gear? Do you think all games that require you to wear class specific gear is boring.. NO none of it is....it puts the skill in the player, not the build or the armor. I do think that builds and armor have their place, however!!!!!!!!!! Skill should be #1 not, ABUSING the system to dominate in pvp.

[Hraefn]

Never played EQ2 or EQ1 for that matter. I have played games that allow you to wear class specific gear to gain some advantage but none that demand that you wear it. With the limited amount of variation available in this game, imposing further restrictions (e.g., enchantresses can only use INT gear) will make it boring.

In a MMORPG, part of player skill is being able to build a character. Otherwise, why not just play with prefabricated characters?

You keep claiming that players who play hybrid characters are abusing the system. Please show me where a dev supports your assertion.

[Xanthia]

Build a character within the defines of that specific class. It will not make it boring, it will make the SKILL more important. The way you want it, you want builds to be better than skill. PvP is about your prowess as a player, not how well you can abuse the system.

[Banned]

Have the devs declared elves using bows or birds wielding swords to be an abuse of the system. What new rules have the devs needed to make? I see Cinco proposing to buff the enchantress class. I see you trying to make new rules.

If this game turns into everyone playing virtually, identical builds, it will hold no interest for me. I prefer a complex game with challenging issues pertaining to balance over a overly simple but "perfectly balanced" game.

And, yeah, the LAG is the biggest problem right now. It negates player skill and makes PvP no fun.

Completely agree with you. It makes character building a lot more interesting. I would hate to see everyone walking around with nearly the same builds, would totally ruin build experimentation for me.

[Obliteration]

Have the devs declared elves using bows or birds wielding swords to be an abuse of the system. What new rules have the devs needed to make? I see Cinco proposing to buff the enchantress class. I see you trying to make new rules.

If this game turns into everyone playing virtually, identical builds, it will hold no interest for me. I prefer a complex game with challenging issues pertaining to balance over a overly simple but "perfectly balanced" game.

And, yeah, the LAG is the biggest problem right now. It negates player skill and makes PvP no fun.

Actually no, they like to see us get creative. I believe it was asommers or justg who actually said it in a thread.

And for the topic.

I wish games would end when everyone on the other team died... And there were no resurrections. Haha but I know no one would ever agree with me there.

However goodlist I agree with alot of these.

[Justg]

Yup, go crazy :)

[Hraefn]

Build a character within the defines of that specific class. It will not make it boring, it will make the SKILL more important. The way you want it, you want builds to be better than skill. PvP is about your prowess as a player, not how well you can abuse the system.

I've built characters within the confines of their respective classes. And then I saw people running around with the same cookie cutter builds and I found it boring. So I tried something different within the dynamics of the system.

Build and skill complement one another. A well-built toon in the hands of an incompetent player will hardly dominate.

So far, you are the only one slinging the word "abuse" around. Any luck finding a dev who agrees with you?

[amn624]

I doubt that I will ever do the PvP thing, unless I can get an Archer or Warrior up to snuff. I can't see how my lvl 33 Enchantress would ever stand a chance against Archers or Warriors on equal or higher lvls. If I'm wrong on that, I'd appreciate a head's up but I know in the Swamps, the worst thing I can do is NOT hang back. The Enchantress is just....weaker.

[Diz]

Looks like a big "no", Hraefn.

My opinion is that any class-based game, by default, is removing some of the skill and replacing it with fairness [r/p/s]. At least in some capacity.

[Hraefn]

Looks like a big "no", Hraefn.

My opinion is that any class-based game, by default, is removing some of the skill and replacing it with fairness [r/p/s]. At least in some capacity.

True but I want to have a variety of rocks, different grades of paper and at least a few pinking shears throw in with my scissors.

By the way, Diz, how is your tank healer faring in PvP so far?

[Diz]

Enchantresses are borked anyways so it is really not making a different in either spec. All I can do is run a marathon and kite people around or stay behind and heal / CC. Anything else is risking a 1-2 shot.

[ratava]

I wish games would end when everyone on the other team died... And there were no resurrections. Haha but I know no one would ever agree with me there.

I like this idea too ; ) Not sure it would/could work tho'!



3. Games should NEVER start until each time has 5 players on each side.

Actually think this is the most fundamental point (all points worth considering as well). This is really the one that makes a difference. Start a PvP game: Everyone is ready, everyone is on even number teams with full manna, health and then the PvP begins. Some sort of best of games or first to number of wins might help ppl stick around even after the 1st defeat too??

[FriedSushi]

I agree with everything on the list...except for class gear restrictions
So far, this game has little variation. At the max level cap, most people who stick with their classes default weapon have the same look, and around the same damage and stats.
Cross classes give creativity to the game. If items were restricted to class only, then there will truly be only three classes. Right now, we basically have 9 classes, and every single one of those 9 classes have pros/cons, and things that make them better than the others. For example archers have blast shot, which is an advantage over a dex bear, while dex bears have iron blood and rage. Cross classes dont really unbalance things

Just what i think :)

[amn624]

Cross classes give creativity to the game.


I totally agree. I haven't done it but if I could spend the time (instead of playing) to mine my inventory for the right stuff, I think it would be very cool to see what I could come up with and just respec. I'll wait until I hit 35. Nearing 34 now.

Mysteriane (lvl 34 Echantress - 3003 kills! Yay!)

[Flamin]

3. Games should NEVER start until each time has 5 players on each side.
3. PvP games should NEVER start until each team has maximum amount of players on each side.

Is this what you mean? If so then you need to edit your post.

[Flamin]

Ok, I have a few suggestions that I believe need to be fixed rather quickly! I know that some have already been brought up. However I am going to write them again.

1. There needs to be a spawn zone where the other team is not able to access. The spawn killing is getting excessive, and it really deters me from wanting to play PvP!

2. As I have stated before, classes should be restricted to CLASS SPECIFIC Weapons! Though, it is very unique and very cool, it is abusing the system and ultimately making the devs make more rules.

3. Games should NEVER start until each time has 5 players on each side.

4. There should be a lobby area where the teams must remain until the game is full.

5. Make SURE that when you respawn, you respawn in the spawn area (Refer to #1, unaccessible to the opposite team)

6. REDUCE LAG, it is TERRIBLE RIGHT NOW

Until all of these things have been corrected, PvP will never be great!

I would love feedback! -- Thanks for all the great work PL Staff, Special Thx Cinco

I absolute agree with all of these ideas, but the number 2 one I disagree with.

[ratava]

3. Games should NEVER start until each time has 5 players on each side. sic

Hmm, guess some ppl have to get the games rolling so others can pitch in, so maybe being flexible does have it's merits also?

[lazuli]

Just to kinda legitimise my ramblings a bit, I am (i guess) a veteran of WoW Arena PvP, having played at 2000ish rating. Currently playing an enchanter who you repeatedly fail to accept my friend requests Xanthia ;)


1. There needs to be a spawn zone where the other team is not able to access. The spawn killing is getting excessive, and it really deters me from wanting to play PvP!

This is a good idea, but there would have to be some kind of time limit on the amount of time being spent inside it, otherwise the enemy team could simply camp inside. Spawn killing is to a degree something thats part of PvP, and there's a degree of skill in controlling the battle in order to gain control over the enemy team (WoW has it with graveyards in Warsong Gulch etc. and MW/MW2 has it through objective control). I do agree though that spawn killing as it is atm is down to a bad spawn system and not players skill.


2. As I have stated before, classes should be restricted to CLASS SPECIFIC Weapons! Though, it is very unique and very cool, it is abusing the system and ultimately making the devs make more rules.

I find that the openness of classes, allowing bowchantresses etc, is one of the hallmarks of this game, and really allows for creativity when playing. Cutting off choices and just leaving the cookie-cutter classes would mean that very often one would just be playing with the same tactics over and over. I think that if the lag is dealt with, the options for team tactics and group setups would be really interesting, maybe creating a very defensive setup which relies on draining an enemy teams attacks (for 3v3: Bowbear, Tankbear for stuns, enchantress as an example) or something very offensive (caster, bowchantress, archer) but squishier.

The rest of your ideas make a lot of sense though. I'd personally like to see damage reduced even further still, although this is probably controversial. People are still dying in bursts that are way too high, things need to be smoother and slower. I'd suggest that HP should really scale upwards via your level (if only in PvP), as well as simply being influenced by strength.
I also think MP should be increased, especially for casters; putting a mana shield on should not drain almost all my mana just from one burst. Again this could be just for PvP.

This is very obviously ripped from WoW, but i think diminishing returns on stuns/freezes could also be important if damage was reduced further. As an enchantress i can completely take a Bear/Archer out of the game just by chain freezing them.

Just some ideas to throw about and be widely discredited ;)

Edit: to sum up really; the ridiculous killtime as it stands at the minute needs to be fixed, and then i think smaller tweaks to particular subclasses could be made.

[Xanthia]

Well the biggest and most important idea on that list is that players should be confined to just class specific weapons and armor. I understand that no other players see my view on that, but it will be IMPOSSIBLE to make pvp equal and fair if players can do what ever they want. There will always be a class of the week, depending on what class or skill the devs want to buff or give the nurf bat too. However, it is really funny to see the different players disagree with me, especially considering they are only saying this when their class is on top, and after that changes I don't hear from them again. Honestly, I would be saying this even if Healing Enchantress were the top of the list, which never happens, but something to hope for :)

Anyway, I hope that you all are looking at PvP in a team aspect, not in who gets the most kills, because honestly, I do not care who gets the most kills, I get kinda mad when people brag about how many kills they received because if it was not for your team there is no way you could have achieved that. If you really care about PvP in the future and not just now, you would agree that PvP needs to be balanced and the best and only way to do it is to restrict class specific items and gear. There are still MANY ways to design your character, considering some weapons do certain proc's that allow many combos, this would enable you to use those points you spent in that debuff somewhere else. You all need to stop expecting complete random madness, it honestly makes this game look really crude in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I love this game and I think the DEV's are doing an excellent job. I just would like to see this game grow, and I don't see that happening all that much when battles last 3 seconds and everyone dies no matter what skill you use.

As I have been saying, Venom is making an extremely long post and will be posted in 2 days

Sorry Lazuli, I don't accept anyones friend request unless I know them, so send me a tell when your about to do it.

[Diz]

By default, class-based PvP isn't fair and equal.

It's rock/paper/scissors, which is, however, more fair than an open-ended skill building MMO... or I should say, R/P/S is more fair with regards to player skill than an open-ended skill building MMO.

Personally I don't think PvP can ever be truly balanced in a class-based MMO, regardless of whether gear restrictions are in or not.

As it stands there are three different roles - I think the real issue you're having is whether or not they are clearly defined as originally intended. Well, the devs have stated that their original intent is not to have enchantresses only wearing cloth subsets and using wands/staves with mostly INT - they've stated that it is as open-ended as a class-based MMO can be. You can put YOUR points where YOU want, period. You can EQUIP any gear YOU want, period.

Now, if they changed it, I wouldn't really be upset. Again, it's just about giving the player a little bit of customization beyond the three classes.

If there were say, FIVE or SIX [or MORE] classes??? I would probably agree with you. But for now, it almost feels necessary that they leave at least speccing open which opens the door for different gear options and thus slightly different playstyles.

I don't have a problem with it either way, but I don't think caring about PvP means you support gear/stat restrictions.

[Sayishere]

to be honest getting a balance in PVP is very hard, theres always going to be a class that has the upperhand over the other, many MMOS ive played were like this and there were those 'flavour of the months' where people would jump on the bandwagon to be the best until its nerfed. id say now its bowbear, and it will soon change.

i love the customizing aspect of this game, i think the big problem here is the damage, its way to much for our characters to take, the burst damage all classes have now is insane. this sort of burst damage should be lowered. more health, or more defense modifiers would definately solve the problem, because i assume people just hate dieing in 2 seconds (i know i do)

maybe if they had more classes this wouldnt be a problem, but i really like their system ATM, its very customizable and its unique imo

but everything else you said xanthia i agree with

[lazuli]

I think I would ideally want the damage/health mechanic changed so that it needs 2 people to take down a player that is being efficiently healed, and then these worries about classroles being swapped around would probably become less important. When everyone is hitting super high and only one or two gear choices have the HP feedback to back that damage up then obviously people aren't going to like that. If damage is lowered or maybe it's made so that strength isn't pivotal in hp increase... I think it will make things better.

I personally believe that 3 classes might be too low to disallow to much dynamism with choice, but if class requirements were brought in, you could always make it so that the pink weapons/armour have class requirements, but anything lower doesn't. People could still experiment but the big guns are locked away for set classes.

Oh and il hit you up on that friend request Xanthia, Im just interested to find out what team setup you roll with and how you play PvP, particularly as a defensive healer.

[v5point0]

Well the biggest and most important idea on that list is that players should be confined to just class specific weapons and armor. I understand that no other players see my view on that, but it will be IMPOSSIBLE to make pvp equal and fair if players can do what ever they want. There will always be a class of the week, depending on what class or skill the devs want to buff or give the nurf bat too. However, it is really funny to see the different players disagree with me, especially considering they are only saying this when their class is on top, and after that changes I don't hear from them again. Honestly, I would be saying this even if Healing Enchantress were the top of the list, which never happens, but something to hope for :)

Anyway, I hope that you all are looking at PvP in a team aspect, not in who gets the most kills, because honestly, I do not care who gets the most kills, I get kinda mad when people brag about how many kills they received because if it was not for your team there is no way you could have achieved that. If you really care about PvP in the future and not just now, you would agree that PvP needs to be balanced and the best and only way to do it is to restrict class specific items and gear. There are still MANY ways to design your character, considering some weapons do certain proc's that allow many combos, this would enable you to use those points you spent in that debuff somewhere else. You all need to stop expecting complete random madness, it honestly makes this game look really crude in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I love this game and I think the DEV's are doing an excellent job. I just would like to see this game grow, and I don't see that happening all that much when battles last 3 seconds and everyone dies no matter what skill you use.

As I have been saying, Venom is making an extremely long post and will be posted in 2 days

Sorry Lazuli, I don't accept anyones friend request unless I know them, so send me a tell when your about to do it.

On the contrary, I think at the moment, the classes with their default builds are kinda unbalanced in PVP and so with the FREEDOM to mix and match, one can hope to achieve a bit more balance between the classes. It is also creative and unique to have the FREEDOM to build whatever you please and take that into battle.

Let's not be a NAZI and restrict players to default builds, like others have said - that would simply be boring. PVP is all about challenge, skill, and a bit of luck - lets keep it that way.

[Azrael]

On the contrary, I think at the moment, the classes with their default builds are kinda unbalanced in PVP and so with the FREEDOM to mix and match, one can hope to achieve a bit more balance between the classes. It is also creative and unique to have the FREEDOM to build whatever you please and take that into battle.

It is nearly impossible to fix any balance issues as long as there are no equipment restrictions on classes or skills. You defeat your own argument. Most suggestions have including these restrictions will be accompanied by improved stat and skill system to create more diversity within classes to offset the removal of hybrids.


Let's not be a NAZI and restrict players to default builds, like others have said - that would simply be boring. PVP is all about challenge, skill, and a bit of luck - lets keep it that way.

What is it with people invoking the Nazi 3rd Reich to describe any concept they don't like? And what game have you been playing? PvP in PL is already boring, and it doesn't require skill... and isn't challenging.

[runedarkblade]

get at least one health and manna potion after a kill so you stand a chance to next person that wants to fight you. because i always kill and have 15% health left and die to next person in a couple hits...

[amn624]

What is it with people invoking the Nazi 3rd Reich to describe any concept they don't like?

Possibly because it is the most reviled period in human history??