Is it just me ...

[Coalhouse]

... or are pve PUGs worse than ever?

It appears that there are far more:

- warriors not "taunting" or even fighting.
- warriors demanding mana and even healing.

- sorcerers using Life Giver.
- sorcerers scattering mobs (particularly away from DoT AoEs) with Gale Force.

- all classes not using ankhs.

Is this solely due to plat. levelling?

[Serancha]

Bunch of A.R.S.E.S if you ask me. And yes, this was a concern when plat levelling was implemented. Check their pve kill count when they do this crap. You'll see pretty fast if that's the reason or not.

[Coalhouse]

I forgot to mention:

- various individuals chatting or otherwise being "Busy" for extended periods during combat!

My sorcerer alt. even had to explain the whole pve/pvp-Life Giver-potions business with a very bad mannered warrior. I still don't think he got it.

Beware PUGs, often trying to level with one feels like trying to wade through treacle. Which paradoxically, I would like to try.

[Bluebatthing]

What's wrong with life saver? I have it spec'ed and use it on easier maps, it saves some pots money, and every bit counts given the value of gold right now. I can't speak for others but, when running easier maps with my rogue, say, normal wilds or the Rengol maps, a mage with fire, ice, clock, and heal is almost always welcome. I've yet to see any one, ANY ONE, complained about having their health/mana refilled.

[Serancha]

What's wrong with life saver? I have it spec'ed and use it on easier maps, it saves some pots money, and every bit counts given the value of gold right now. I can't speak for others but, when running easier maps with my rogue, say, normal wilds or the Rengol maps, a mage with fire, ice, clock, and heal is almost always welcome. I've yet to see any one, ANY ONE, complained about having their health/mana refilled.

I complain about having my health/mana refilled, because it means the mage is slowing down the runs by not using 4 attack skills.

Faster runs = mobs dying faster = less potions + more runs per hour which = more loot for your gaming time. More loot and less potions = more money saved and earned. Mages barely even need healing pots on easy maps anyways, because the mobs die so fast.

I believe the OP was talking about elite pugs in any case. Mage heal draws aggro which means the mage is dead and if he's not using ankhs, the pulls then have to be killed by 3 players rather than all 4.

[Coalhouse]

What's wrong with life saver? I have it spec'ed and use it on easier maps, it saves some pots money, and every bit counts given the value of gold right now. I can't speak for others but, when running easier maps with my rogue, say, normal wilds or the Rengol maps, a mage with fire, ice, clock, and heal is almost always welcome. I've yet to see any one, ANY ONE, complained about having their health/mana refilled.

The whole pve-Life Giver matter has already been done to death in this forum, I suggest you research the threads as I am not going to cover it again. Suffice to say that I have had a capped sorcerer for over two years, it has not had Life Giver since I realised my mistake a considerable time ago.

[Bidiel]

u should see in kraken mines players lvl 41+ asking for " what si 2-2??? " -.-

[Coalhouse]

I would suggest that all those who are able to, display titles or (untradable) banners or vanities, only available before this expansion. I use "Guardian of Necropolis" which, although not difficult to obtain was only available during the 2013 "Helloween" event. This would distinguish those of us who have earned our levels, from those who have simply purchased them.

[xcainnblecterx]

I complain about having my health/mana refilled, because it means the mage is slowing down the runs by not using 4 attack skills.

Faster runs = mobs dying faster = less potions + more runs per hour which = more loot for your gaming time. More loot and less potions = more money saved and earned. Mages barely even need healing pots on easy maps anyways, because the mobs die so fast.

I believe the OP was talking about elite pugs in any case. Mage heal draws aggro which means the mage is dead and if he's not using ankhs, the pulls then have to be killed by 3 players rather than all 4.

I feel loved, a rogue sticking up for no heal sorcs. As for the op it is bad especially km. Hardly find a party that knows how to run the map and if they at least know where to stop and kill they still can't 2-2. Been so bad I've had all 3 on one side with me.

[Coalhouse]

Bunch of A.R.S.E.S if you ask me. And yes, this was a concern when plat levelling was implemented. Check their pve kill count when they do this crap. You'll see pretty fast if that's the reason or not.

Not just any arse can be in the A.R.S.E.S., you have to be a right smart-arse. :encouragement:

[Bluebatthing]

You seem to think the majority of players have the resources to spare on popping pots. Not everyone can stock up on 5k health/mana pots. If they're grinding easy maps, they are trying to save for better gear. Did you stop to think that some of them can't afford pots/ankhs? I guess you'll just have to party with your maxed/nearly maxed gear friends and leave the common folks to their own devises. Now, I do think that the numbers of new players who have no clues about end games have increased since the instant-41 was introduced, but everyone was new at one point. I only leave a PUG when clueless players are not receptive to suggestions, but then I'm not an elitist :encouragement:

[xcainnblecterx]

You seem to think the majority of players have the resources to spare on popping pots. Not everyone can stock up on 5k health/mana pots. If they're grinding easy maps, they are trying to save for better gear. Did you stop to think that some of them can't afford pots/ankhs? I guess you'll just have to party with your maxed/nearly maxed gear friends and leave the common folks to their own devises. Now, I do think that the numbers of new players who have no clues about end games have increased since the instant-41 was introduced, but everyone was new at one point. I only leave a PUG when clueless players are not receptive to suggestions, but then I'm not an elitist :encouragement:

I'm no where near maxed and have no problem potting. Pots honestly do not cost that much so I don't see the concern with funds.

[Coalhouse]

You seem to think the majority of players have the resources to spare on popping pots. Not everyone can stock up on 5k health/mana pots. If they're grinding easy maps, they are trying to save for better gear. Did you stop to think that some of them can't afford pots/ankhs? I guess you'll just have to party with your maxed/nearly maxed gear friends and leave the common folks to their own devises. Now, I do think that the numbers of new players who have no clues about end games have increased since the instant-41 was introduced, but everyone was new at one point. I only leave a PUG when clueless players are not receptive to suggestions, but then I'm not an elitist :encouragement:

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. I am not "maxed/nearly maxed" by any means. I am, by my own estimation, only a third-rate player at best. That hardly makes me "elitist", however should we not try to play to the best of our abilities?

As for potions, you only need a handful per run. I seldom carry more than about a thousand at a time, where you got "5k" from I don't know. Ankhs can also be used sparingly, if you know what you are doing. By the way, did you know you can get ankhs and potions for free from Klaas and Shazbot? Furthermore, potions particularly mana ones are not expensive, especially from a guildhall.

[Bluebatthing]

A lot of assumptions? Hadly. Most of these players who keep saying "oh, use pots, it's cheap" "sorcs use 4 attack skills make runs so much faster", are they not assuming that most players can afford pots or want to try for the fastest times possible? Ever thought that these are just casual players?

Just to be clear, I pop pots, I usually have 5k health/mana pots, I hoarded ankhs from Klass/Shazbot for my rogue before capping, however, I don't look down on new players who don't yet know the ropes.

Ps: I never use heal on my mage running harder elites, and I DO leave if another mage uses heal...


You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. I am not "maxed/nearly maxed" by any means. I am, by my own estimation, only a third-rate player at best. That hardly makes me "elitist", however should we not try to play to the best of our abilities?

As for potions, you only need a handful per run. I seldom carry more than about a thousand at a time, where you got "5k" from I don't know. Ankhs can also be used sparingly, if you know what you are doing. By the way, did you know you can get ankhs and potions for free from Klaas and Shazbot? Furthermore, potions particularly mana ones are not expensive, especially from a guildhall.

[Serancha]

A lot of assumptions? Hadly. Most of these players who keep saying "oh, use pots, it's cheap" "sorcs use 4 attack skills make runs so much faster", are they not assuming that most players can afford pots or want to try for the fastest times possible? Ever thought that these are just casual players?

This isn't about doing leaderboard timed runs or being a pro player. Casual players don't play hours on end, meaning logically they would want to make the best use of the time they have.

Example (these are hypothetical, but realistic numbers):

• Say you can do 30 runs in an hour in KM3 with a 4-attack-skill mage (2 minutes / run)

• Due to less damage, you can only 20 runs in the same hour with a heal mage (3 minutes / run)

• That means you would have 30 more chances to get crates in the same length of time (*3 bosses per run).

Now, let's say you get an average of one crate per run. That would be 10 extra crates. At current prices you are now profiting 150K more in that hour by running with a mage with 4 attack skills. You can buy a lot of potions for 150K.


Of course this is also why herds of warriors end up in the KM3 lobby looking for parties, and rogues get spammed with invites just by showing up. Most players want to optimize their use of time, so they pick teams that will be able to do the most in a given period of time.

[Coalhouse]

A lot of assumptions? Hadly. Most of these players who keep saying "oh, use pots, it's cheap" "sorcs use 4 attack skills make runs so much faster", are they not assuming that most players can afford pots or want to try for the fastest times possible? Ever thought that these are just casual players?

Just to be clear, I pop pots, I usually have 5k health/mana pots, I hoarded ankhs from Klass/Shazbot for my rogue before capping, however, I don't look down on new players who don't yet know the ropes.

Ps: I never use heal on my mage running harder elites, and I DO leave if another mage uses heal...

Yes, a lot of assumptions, as I have previously stated. If you were to actually read my post you would see this. You would also notice that I am a "casual player".

Why you think you need five thousand of anything is beyond me. I only have about a thousand because I have accrued them from the "Allies", in fact I cannot use them as fast as I get them. I must be doing something wrong(!). You must be a very dedicated player to enjoy having your time wasted by those who have paid to get what you have (presumably) worked to achieve.

[Bluebatthing]

Before you keep on accusing me of making assumptions, please review your posts to see if you've made any yourself. As for the subject of your thread, you keep your view, I keep mine, and the rest of the AL player base will keep theirs, I doubt we will see any changes due to our discussion, which is slowly turning into something else we entirely, so I digress.
Yes, a lot of assumptions, as I have previously stated. If you were to actually read my post you would see this. You would also notice that I am a "casual player".

Why you think you need five thousand of anything is beyond me. I only have about a thousand because I have accrued them from the "Allies", in fact I cannot use them as fast as I get them. I must be doing something wrong(!). You must be a very dedicated player to enjoy having your time wasted by those who have paid to get what you have (presumably) worked to achieve.

@serancha

I cannot argue with your example in the slighest. However, let's not kid ourselves, if everyone who play AL dwell into calculations such as yours, albeit simple and logical, we would not see players like the OP is complaining about. I'm going out on a limb and say that it is not the mindset of the majority of AL players to take that kind of calculation into consideration when they play, most just want to have a little fun.

[Coalhouse]

Before you keep on accusing me of making assumptions, please review your posts to see if you've made any yourself. As for the subject of your thread, you keep your view, I keep mine, and the rest of the AL player base will keep theirs, I doubt we will see any changes due to our discussion, which is slowly turning into something else we entirely, so I digress.

@serancha

I cannot argue with your example in the slighest. However, let's not kid ourselves, if everyone who play AL dwell into calculations such as yours, albeit simple and logical, we would not see players like the OP is complaining about. I'm going out on a limb and say that it is not the mindset of the majority of AL players to take that kind of calculation into consideration when they play, most just want to have a little fun.

I have stated facts, as confirmed by personal experience.

You have assumed:

1) Players need "5k" potions. They obviously do not.

2) Potions and ankhs are too expensive for the "casual" player. I am a "casual" player. The vast majority of my potions and virtually all of my ankhs have been free.

3) I am an "elitist" player. Incorrect, as stated in 2)

4) I have "maxed/nearly maxed" equipment. Not even close!

I hope this clears things up for you.

If this is all about you trying to justify your spell choices, there is really no need. You may use Lifegiver, Curse and Galeforce for all I care.

You are correct in just one thing though. Plat. levellers do not "know the ropes". They have chosen to not know the ropes. They have even paid for the privilege of not knowing the ropes. Just because there is new content available does not invalidate the old content or mean that they cannot get to the new content, when they have finished with the old.

If you want to start a thread of your own, stating that everything is fine and that all sorcerers must use Lifegiver, feel free.

[Bluebatthing]

The hypocrisy is overwhelming, I will stop commenting! Have a nice day!
I have stated facts, as confirmed by personal experience.

You have assumed:

1) Players need "5k" potions. They obviously do not.

2) Potions and ankhs are too expensive for the "casual" player. I am a "casual" player. The vast majority of my potions and virtually all of my ankhs have been free.

3) I am an "elitist" player. Incorrect, as stated in 2)

4) I have "maxed/nearly maxed" equipment. Not even close!

I hope this clears things up for you.

If this is all about you trying to justify your spell choices, there is really no need. You may use Lifegiver, Curse and Galeforce for all I care.

You are correct in just one thing though. Plat. levellers do not "know the ropes". They have chosen to not know the ropes. They have even paid for the privilege of not knowing the ropes. Just because there is new content available does not invalidate the old content or mean that they cannot get to the new content, when they have finished with the old.

If you want to start a thread of your own, stating that everything is fine and that all sorcerers must use Lifegiver, feel free.

[Coalhouse]

The hypocrisy is overwhelming, I will stop commenting! Have a nice day!

I will cut you some slack as your posts display a lack of familiarity with the English language. However, you are obviously unaware of the meaning of the word "hypocrisy".

I agree that it is best if you cease communication, as you are unable to substantiate your assertions and have had to fall back on baseless, personal insults.

[Bluebatthing]

You're absolutely correct, English is not my first language, but I do know the meaning of the word "hypocrisy", and I do know a hypocrit when I see one.
I will cut you some slack as your posts display a lack of familiarity with the English language. However, you are obviously unaware of the meaning of the word "hypocrisy".

I agree that it is best if you cease communication, as you are unable to substantiate your assertions and have had to fall back on baseless, personal insults.

[Ebezaanec]

This thread is getting too personal. You guys will have to play nice or a thread-lock is on the horizon.

[Overweightank]

Okay since everyone here is sugarcoating it.

1) If you ask for mana in PvE (You are either a noobie [New Player] or VERY Undergeared and unable to complete easy tasks in Endgame.

2) Potions are not expensive. Anhks are kind of expensive. But both can be gotten VERY easily. There's something called run KM3 for 1-2h and you can get 2 anhk kits (50 anhks) as well as TONS of pots. That's 1-2h if you're unlucky. If you're standard or Even Goodluck. You can make a few hundred 1000 gold within an hour or two just by lockeds + jewels in km3 :)

3) Let's stop making this person with all this "hypocrit" and such stuff and keep it friendly. Also an average player now has atleast 100k to spare considering 3-4 lockeds is all you need. So whoever can't afford Pots or atleast 1 Anhk kit (Refuses to farm 3-4 lockeds as well, and just complains) is not fit for endgame and shouldn't even step up to people who have experience telling them how to solve their problem. The internet is where ignorance is a choice.

* Sorry for being a bit harsh. I'm going to ask for forgiveness to whoever was offended. Have a good day and plz stop the hate)

[Coalhouse]

You're absolutely correct, English is not my first language, but I do know the meaning of the word "hypocrisy", and I do know a hypocrit when I see one.

By stating that you would not post again and then doing just that, you have efficiently demonstrated the meaning of "hipocrisy". By the way, the spelling is "hypocrite". You should remember this when groundlessly defaming people.

However, if you have nothing further to add and cannot defend your stance (as you obviously cannot), kindly cease the personal insults.

[Ipoopsy]

The hypocrisy is overwhelming, I will stop commenting! Have a nice day!

I totally agree.

Likei said in a few posts before (on different but similar topics), the majority of most people in AL are just mostly followers from the more outspoken people on forum. They always ASSUMED that those type of people are correct and the rest of the other people are wrong.

Yes, i know this is an Assumption also, that's why when i reply, most of the time i said "in my opinion".

[Coalhouse]

I totally agree.

Likei said in a few posts before (on different but similar topics), the majority of most people in AL are just mostly followers from the more outspoken people on forum. They always ASSUMED that those type of people are correct and the rest of the other people are wrong.

Yes, i know this is an Assumption also, that's why when i reply, most of the time i said "in my opinion".

Noun
hypocrisy (plural hypocrisies)

The claim or pretense of having beliefs, standards, qualities, behaviours, virtues, motivations, etc. which one does not actually have. [from early 13th c.]
The practice of engaging in the same behaviour or activity for which one criticises another; moral self-contradiction whereby the behavior of one or more people belies their own claimed or implied possession of certain beliefs, standards or virtues.
An instance of either or both of the above.

This is the definition of the word "hypocrisy" from Wiktionary. I challenge you to show how any of my words or actions match this. If you are unable to, you owe me an apology.