Stronghold pulling nerfed?

[Slush]

I think in todays update they nerfed the Stonghold pulling a little bit. The dev probably did this secretly, like they did with Vyxnaar in the Shadow Caves. Maybe it's just me, but when i go around pulling in th mobs, some of them just dont follow me. I see the red exclamation mark above their head, but for some reson they follow me for 2 steps then just forget about it. Most of the mobs still follow me, but its frustrating when there is still a couple of mobs hanging about. Is anyone else noticing this same problem, or is it just me, because I have never encountered this problem before. And one more thing, when I stand next to the pole at the boss lair to pull the queen, she'll stop chasing me if I move back, I now have to take the hits as I walk back to keep the aggro.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to point this out

[Ellyidol]

Just checked the pulling, seems the same.

For the Queen aggro, I've always at least taken one hit before moving out, just personal preference, but I do remember not needing to take any hit at all just to pull.

[Imperial-legend]

yep same thing happened to me, i used to pull the whole map of mobs plus three bosses together to kill in meathead deli but now it doesnt work anymore.

despite that, low lvl boss still kitable, just need to be very careful and make sure their aim is always on u especially when u come around to corner, they will reset once they lose their target

[Mr.Wallace]

Noticed a change too, it seems I lose 5 to 10 mobs per pull, will try it slower...

[StompArtist]

Yes it seems like the pulls have less effect than they use to? I thought it was because I haven't played in a while but now seeing this thread I have to agree. Go try it out in Skeller returns it is quite clear that something changed... lol

[Snakespeare]

Yes, and I don't like it. I have been trying to use my bear level 51 in Sewers and I am certain they would not have done this if they tested with a level 51 bear. He is useless, anymore. I guess I will have to grind to 53 in CtK.

[Arterra]

Maybe keep constant damage? I keep casting skills while running as a Mage. now it may be a necessity.

[FluffNStuff]

Quick question, what are you hit percentages?

[StompArtist]

My hit% is 128 un-buffed.

Note: This applies not just to Stronghold it is for all maps.

[Snakespeare]

My level 51's hit% is 90. But his job is to pull and absorb. He absorbs damage just fine, but weakened beckon is just making him a detriment to the party.

[Olli Walli]

They have definitely changed the pulling for mobs in the SH. I thought at first it was line of sight. Maybe you couldn't round a corner without lossing the mob. Doesn't look like that is the case. I cannot for the life of me get the mob in the back corner to pull. I've inched my way around and it still doesn't work.

Very...... Annoying......

[Riccits]

not very good news.... :/

[skavenger216]

Taken from my post in the patch notes.....


I've noticed it also. Best way i can describe it is the enemies still have a pretty long "leash", but as soon as you break line of sight with them ( by going around a corner, etc.) they go and reset. I did some testing on skavengr and it seemed as if when I waited until all the mobs were past a corner before I turned the corner they would still follow. However, if I turned the corner before they all got past it, a lot would still be scattered about. Can someone else try this and verify my suspicions please? :D

[Arterra]

Does the line of sight break mean that corner trick boss killing is at an end?

[skavenger216]

Does the line of sight break mean that corner trick boss killing is at an end?

Unfortunately, I think so. :(

[Doubletime]

I noticed the nerf too. AOE damage to the mobs as you round up seems to help. The ones I was really losing were the ones that just had aggro from me running by and then I lose then on the corners. The bad part is that my bear generally doesn't have enough aeo skills to constantly put out damage, so I am still losing some.

I noticed the only real change with the queen pull is similar. If you pull and break line of site with her, she seems to reset. Otherwise the pull part seems to same.

[Slush]

Does the line of sight break mean that corner trick boss killing is at an end?

You can still do it, but now you have to constantly take hits while running back.

[neko]

Here's a quote from Samhayne from the patch notes explaining the changes.


Hey guys,

There was a bug fixed with the AI where a mob could get stuck on a corner and not fight. So yes, things were tweaked a bit to keep the mobs from being do-do heads and doing nothing.

[ranonman]

I also noticed this change - Weakened Beckon, AOE effect (bear combo move), and pulling are not same as before. I could work around with different strategies of pulling mobs BUT I'm still not satisfied with Beckon ability - it seems that the chance of using beckon ability to be succeed has lower the percentage.

[Greyhorse]

Yeah, can anyone else confirm what I've been experiencing? The past couple of days, my beckon has definitely changed, and NOT for the better; not only in Stronghold but every where else. It's like, I have to do a double-take at my skills to make sure I actually fired a beckon off (which I have) because, the mobs barely react to what used to be, as someone said, a "Jedi pull".

At this rate I'll never get to 55, let alone 56. :(

(Umm, I'll have a wah-burger and French cries, please.)

[giayuan]

yupp.. just tried it out. Enemies havta be seeing you at all times

[karmakali]

Many of the bears I run with have expressed the same...mobs don't follow and beckon seems nerfed. Seems out of line for these to be changed...that's what bears do.

[Riccits]

so bears again almost useless and target of booter?

[karmakali]

I certainly hope not/don't think so. Birds and mages are always going to be squishy and need bears to be there to take aggro.
Nothing but love for bears ;)

[Raulur]

Noticed it when trying pull mobs around a corner. Makes it pretty tough to solo, that's for sure. I think it would have been better just to have the mobs warp around the corner if they get stuck.

[noneo]

I had the same issue with pulling the queen the other day. One event, I went to the entrance, the queen started to aggro me, then she just stopped attacking and walked back lol. Another time, I got queen aggro, fired a shot at her to "keep" her aggro, I pulled her all the way out of the entrance, then she decided to just reset... Then out of no where, the King appeared like ten seconds later.. My whole team and I were quite confused.

[Eversor]

I played at least a good few hours of stronghold yesterday. My group and I did alot of testing in the "fire grate maze" room. The "shorter leash" is definitely related to line of sight. We just changed where we pulled to, and with a bear we beckoned the ranged mobs around corners since they wouldn't follow otherwise. You should be able to clear the room with 3 pulls with practice. It typically took just one extra beckon per pull. I know someone had mentioned bears being useless again, but I think it's just the opposite if you really want to do the roundup method. Bears are the only class that can beckon the ranged mobs around corners.

The king and queen we approached in the same way as before this recent update with one exception. When you retreat to your group, don't run. Go slowly so that she stays within attacking range and she will continue following you. Also don't cut the corner unless/until you have her beckoned to where she can see down the hall. Hope this helps!

[masterx3]

what dya mean by the word "pull"?
you mean BECKON?
if it is, i cant only attract a mob lol, does it affect what level is it?

[FluffNStuff]

This thread is making me cry.

[Protank]

I'm sad about this too. I'm also sad I can't take my level 10 and start a game on any map I paid for. I paid real $ for all the maps. now cuz there free I can't even make a game where and when I want cuz of my level.!? I really wanted to finish qsts on him and now I can't. why? o yeah cuz so many people complain about so much that its F'n up my game. nurf my bear some more I love it. nurf the gameplay and some more fun out the game Oo I love it! cmon guys let's keep complaining about bears and noobs!!!

[karmakali]

This thread is making me cry.

Please don't cry :(
It seems like STS cycles with its handicaps. Each group takes its hits...we just have to be clever enough to work around them. I have no doubt that good bears will find a way to continue the domination :)

[Samhayne]

I played at least a good few hours of stronghold yesterday. My group and I did alot of testing in the "fire grate maze" room. The "shorter leash" is definitely related to line of sight. We just changed where we pulled to, and with a bear we beckoned the ranged mobs around corners since they wouldn't follow otherwise. You should be able to clear the room with 3 pulls with practice. It typically took just one extra beckon per pull. I know someone had mentioned bears being useless again, but I think it's just the opposite if you really want to do the roundup method. Bears are the only class that can beckon the ranged mobs around corners.

The king and queen we approached in the same way as before this recent update with one exception. When you retreat to your group, don't run. Go slowly so that she stays within attacking range and she will continue following you. Also don't cut the corner unless/until you have her beckoned to where she can see down the hall. Hope this helps!

Good notes Eversor, thanks for your input.

As I mentioned in the patch notes thread, there was a bug fix to AI that went in. The problem before is that mobs would get out of line of sight as they chased you (like around a corner) and could get stuck there and wouldn't successfully fight back. The fix was to have them leash if they got in that situation.

It was not an intentional nerf to tanking or pulling a lot of mobs but a bug fix of an AI problem that had some unintended consequences.

[Ellyidol]

I tested Beckon earlier, the skill itself doesn't seem to have any changes at all. Same speed, same strength of pull, and same number of targets (5-6).

I did notice the LoS fix though. It'll take some getting used to, but I wouldn't call foul on it either because it just makes sense too. I don't think mobs are smart enough to chase after something they don't see :p

It'll be more short and divided pulls than huge ones from now on I guess.

Btw, since this whole LoS fix was made, theoretically, if you aggro both K&Q, wouldn't just running around the corner reset both of them now?

[spookytooth]

Good notes Eversor, thanks for your input.

As I mentioned in the patch notes thread, there was a bug fix to AI that went in. The problem before is that mobs would get out of line of sight as they chased you (like around a corner) and could get stuck there and wouldn't successfully fight back. The fix was to have them leash if they got in that situation.

It was not an intentional nerf to tanking or pulling a lot of mobs but a bug fix of an AI problem that had some unintended consequences.

Hmm that " leash and line of sight" addition still dont work on some bosses (cough OL cough)

[FluffNStuff]

I am guessing this fixes the old terrain exploit on the keeper?

[Greyhorse]

Huh. Ok, then. I must be hallucinating about my beckon being weaker overall lately. *puzzled*

[neko]

I tested Beckon earlier, the skill itself doesn't seem to have any changes at all. Same speed, same strength of pull, and same number of targets (5-6).

I did notice the LoS fix though. It'll take some getting used to, but I wouldn't call foul on it either because it just makes sense too. I don't think mobs are smart enough to chase after something they don't see :p

I haven't noticed a change in speed, strength, range or failure rate (grin), either. Beckon hasn't changed, AFAIK.

As far as clearing Stronghold, Death Train is my preferred method.

[pastrychef]

Huh. Ok, then. I must be hallucinating about my beckon being weaker overall lately. *puzzled*

We must be smoking the same stuff because it certainly feels weaker to me.

[Pokechmp]

My hit% is 128 un-buffed.

Note: This applies not just to Stronghold it is for all maps.
Check one of phys posts I forgot which one. He thinks there is a hit% max, which is like 85% or something. So even tho it says 128%, you don't hit all the time, even if the enemy has no dodge at all.

[Pokechmp]

Oh, and by the way, beckon seems to have less effect at a longer distance.

[Duped]

I think Beckon is the same, only difference I could potentially see is that maybe not as much range, but even then I wouldn't swear to it.