[Possible Issues] something strange with normal mobs scaling

[extrapayah]

last season i only use l41 pinks, blood ruby, and a planar pendant, yet, i didn't find any trouble carrying pug party of 4 to finish normal tindirin maps,

but this season, with additional arcane pets, arcane ring, and new pinks which in total give me +150 more damage, i found it so hard to carry a party in normal maps...

could you check the scaling there? it seems like you give us options to increase our damage for more than 100, but it looks like you double/triple the mobs' health (especially large health + large damage when you're on 4-man party), but didn't do that to the boss, which is very strange...

please check for it...

P.S.: if you're deliberately doing this, i think you're doing it wrong, not even giving new players light maps to play, discourage party with new players, etc...

thank you very much

[Oursizes]

Depends if youre comparing past maps to rengol maps. In rengol pugs its obviously going to be more difficult as the mobs are stronger and harder to kill(shaman heals and orc shields, maybe youre talking about the shield?). Also most pug players are newbies who auto leveled to 41, and they lack any gear to safely run the new maps.. Also if someone is a higher level than you then yes it will be much more difficult because it scales to their level and the system thinks theres 4 players of the highest level in the map.

[extrapayah]

yeah... i know the feeling of those newbies...

anyway, what i'm trying to say is i can carry (means that do the maps with 4 party, with 1/2 people doing everything) at older maps without so much problems before... but now, it doesn't work like that anymore including to old maps that is scaled up (normal tindirin)... if it is intended to work like that, devs can forget about this rants/post

[Jazzi]

Yeah normal tin is super strangely scaled. It is almost elite. Get a decent tank and see if he can tank a big pull in normal Rockhorn. I am pretty sure he will die

[Serancha]

last season i only use l41 pinks, blood ruby, and a planar pendant, yet, i didn't find any trouble carrying pug party of 4 to finish normal tindirin maps,

but this season, with additional arcane pets, arcane ring, and new pinks which in total give me +150 more damage, i found it so hard to carry a party in normal maps...




This is something that has been suspect for well over a year. Frequently, running maps with an arcane geared team is not appreciably easier or faster than an all legendary team, despite the damage difference of several hundred (combined party difference).

Last season I did tests with an experienced, skilled mixed-class party running elite caves in legendaries vs the same party using mythic / arcane. The legendary runs were consistently faster - not a lot, but faster. No explanation for this has ever been found in testing isolated variables, but then there are too many variables to test them all, and there is also no way to accurately test mob hp / armour.

Edit: STS did state that scaling is only affected by the number of people in the party, and the level of those people. However, in practice it often doesn't add up.

[extrapayah]

thank you for all the replies,

as for the scaling based on stats, fortunately i don't find any problem with sts' statement of scaling is only based on number of people, because whenever i'm looking at damage dealt by me / taken by me, and how much it reduces enemies' health bar (and my healt bar), i always find it consistent, with whoever i'm partying with...

what i'm having problem is how different mobs difficulties in normal tindirin before scaled up and after expansion (and the first scaling attempt when they add additional info of mobs' level at the world map) and difference in bosses difficulties in normal tindirin

before, i can almost single-handedly kill all mobs in normal tindirin in a party of 4 (whatever class i'm using), killing enemies in single pass, etc, while now, i can't barely do that, even with strong parties, we have to stop for 1-2 seconds to kill one group of mobs...

and also, before expansion, i can not single-handedly crack the egg in normal wilds, but now, with the current gear + wearing eggshell ring, i can crack the egg, in a 4-man party, with 3 others doing nothing while waiting the egg cracked,

this was also happened at tindirin expansion before, with scaled mobs difficulties in elite nordr, elite shuyal, and normal shuyal... dev said they're investigating it, but still, no more feedback after saying that...

anyone having this same problem/objections, please let me and devs know, thank you

[Madnex]

Confirmed after tests, Tindirin is scaling up to 46.

There's nothing weird going on here, you're just running with gear whose majority of pieces are L41. Five levels higher makes for a huge difference in the armor needed to retain the same damage reduction.

[Jazzi]

Confirmed after tests, Tindirin is scaling up to 46.

There's nothing weird going on here, you're just running with gear whose majority of pieces are L41. Five levels higher makes for a huge difference in the armor needed to retain the same damage reduction.

Sir,

this is the first time I will have to disagree with you. Imo there is something off in the normal tindirin maps. At the end of the lvl 41 cap I had about 664 damage and could one shot all mobs in normal The Wilds (except maybe the one single mob that stuns). I would often go to the wilds in a ghost pt and just use only aimed to go through the map without stopping till the boss. Atm I play with 30% damage lix most of the time. With that lix I have 977 damage, so I effectively gained 313 damage ~ 150%. However when I go in ghost pt in the wilds I one hit the mobs only 50% of the time and have to use combos, as compared to only aimed before. On the other hand the boss is not more difficult that before. It is much easier. Tribal guard Nicot died from one combo in my test 5 minutes ago (aimed, nox, sss, piercer). The other dude needed 2. Seems off to me. Just my opinion. :)

[Serancha]

Sir,

this is the first time I will have to disagree with you. Imo there is something off in the normal tindirin maps. At the end of the lvl 41 cap I had about 664 damage and could one shot all mobs in normal The Wilds (except maybe the one single mob that stuns). I would often go to the wilds in a ghost pt and just use only aimed to go through the map without stopping till the boss. Atm I play with 30% damage lix most of the time. With that lix I have 977 damage, so I effectively gained 313 damage ~ 150%. However when I go in ghost pt in the wilds I one hit the mobs only 50% of the time and have to use combos, as compared to only aimed before. On the other hand the boss is not more difficult that before. It is much easier. Tribal guard Nicot died from one combo in my test 5 minutes ago (aimed, nox, sss, piercer). The other dude needed 2. Seems off to me. Just my opinion. :)

Well, if the mobs are now level 46, and you are still using level 41 gear, that would be the main issue. You can't use level 41 gear, add dmg elix, and consider that upgrading. I thought the op was referring to running with pure legendary vs partial arcane gear, as they said they had new pinks + arcane ring.

[Jazzi]

Well, if the mobs are now level 46, and you are still using level 41 gear, that would be the main issue. You can't use level 41 gear, add dmg elix, and consider that upgrading. I thought the op was referring to running with pure legendary vs partial arcane gear, as they said they had new pinks + arcane ring.

The gear, pet and lix I used for the test are the following:

-ancient planar pendant lvl 41 (1x eye, 2x grand tarlok wind gems)
-arcane ring lvl 41 (1x para, 2x grand tarlok wind gems)
- myth belt of reason lvl 43 (3x normal reinforced fire?
- Giant bone bow of potency lvl 46 (2x grand tarlok wind)
- padded cap of potency lvl 46 (2x normal fire gems)
- Forager's Tunic of potency lvl 46 (2x normal fire gems)
- Nekro lvl 46
- 30% damage lix
I only mentioned the damage lix in the original post in order to clarify where my effective 313 damage increase comes from, as compared to before. Before the cap I was running with myth bow, blood ruby with para, planar pendant and imbued tactics set.
All this does not change the fact that the tribal guardians seem to have the same/nearly same health as the shamans. Even if the normal mobs are scaled so that they provide some resistance when the rest of the expansion gear is released, this does not change the odd feeling one gets when one fights the extremely weak boss, after fighting the much stringer mobs. Just my opinion :)

[extrapayah]

there are two points that i'd like to highlight, i will use a very simple example close enough to make you all understand:

1. i could 1 hit ko a normal mobs in tindirin at l41 with l41 pinks, now i can't do that with l46 pinks -> upgrade of gear that is necessary to get the achieve the same relative difficulty is too steep for mobs
2. i could NOT crack the egg with l41 pinks, now i CAN do that with l46 pinks -> mobs has 4x health than before, but bosses, only has around 1.2x health than before

thank you

P.S. try finishing magma corridor 3 times to get all the 15 magma rocks for daily quest, and fight alargan

[Serancha]

True enough, but this is also the start of the season, and we are in crate pinks. Last season you had end-of-season gear, correct? Better and better gear comes out through the season, and if you could one-hit all the mobs in crate pinks at 46, there would be no reason to work for better stuff when the better gear comes out through the season. This is undoubtedly intentional on the developers' part.

However, elites are currently not scaled fully unless the reports I have gotten of 6 minute runs with pugs are false. When they do get fully scaled, we should see a dramatic spike in difficulty levels for Shuyal, Tindirin and Planar maps, which will require getting elite-quality gear to run those at any speed. (This is what is hoped for anyways, since so far this season is severely lacking in every way)

[acewasabi]

I'm finding normal Tindirin a lot harder and my gear is a LOT better now than before expansion (arcane pet and ring plus heaps more of every stat). I thought normal maps weren't scaled? Seems weird.

[extrapayah]

True enough, but this is also the start of the season, and we are in crate pinks. Last season you had end-of-season gear, correct? Better and better gear comes out through the season, and if you could one-hit all the mobs in crate pinks at 46, there would be no reason to work for better stuff when the better gear comes out through the season. This is undoubtedly intentional on the developers' part.

However, elites are currently not scaled fully unless the reports I have gotten of 6 minute runs with pugs are false. When they do get fully scaled, we should see a dramatic spike in difficulty levels for Shuyal, Tindirin and Planar maps, which will require getting elite-quality gear to run those at any speed. (This is what is hoped for anyways, since so far this season is severely lacking in every way)

last season i only use pinks, expedition bow, icescale set, elondrian ring, eerie amulet.
i have planar pendant and blood ruby, but i've never bother picking them from the stash for only doing dailies in each of my alts.

and even if we can expect better gears in the future, it doesn't feel right how mobs become harder while bosses are not/become easier


I'm finding normal Tindirin a lot harder and my gear is a LOT better now than before expansion (arcane pet and ring plus heaps more of every stat). I thought normal maps weren't scaled? Seems weird.

yes, sir, yes... mobs are scaled per devs confirmation, to make us able to level up there, but the strength of the scaled up mobs are just weirdly hard, thank you for the report :D

[Serancha]

/sts-creative-math

[acewasabi]

yes, sir, yes... mobs are scaled per devs confirmation, to make us able to level up there, but the strength of the scaled up mobs are just weirdly hard, thank you for the report :D

Ah ok I didn't realise, cos on the world map it says Tindirin is 38-44 (from memory). But I am lvl 43 and it seems strange that running solo with much better gear is so much harder than solo-ing as a 41 with all legendary gear (except blood ruby) before expansion!

[extrapayah]

please, mr devs,

it is pretty much confirmed that the relative difficulty of normal tindirin mobs has becoming too difficult, compared to normal tindirin bosses... lone warrior can't farm mobs there without taking so long times or having super overpowered gears anymore, so different compared to last season normal tindirin...

possible causes:
1. when tindirin firstly released, mobs there can't be scaled more than having lvl 38 stats, and bosses at lvl 40, but after the expansion, both can be scaled up to 44, which explain why bosses feel easier to mobs, compared to before, OR
2. the attribute scaling of mobs and bosses are faulty, e.g. mobs get increase of health and damage of 100% per level scaled up, while boss only get 10% increase per level

thank you very much