[Feedback] Mage Heal Upgrade

[shinyx]

I think a lot of mages did not notice the update today gave a major, HUGE buff to heal over time (regrowth update). It no longer gives 5 or 10 hp (or whatever it was) per second for 10 seconds. It now grants (for me) 1100 hp per second for 5 seconds.

If you haven't already done so, buy some respec scrolls and add this upgrade to heal. Thankfully, mana over time is still low so we don't get yelled at by rogues :p just kidding

The info thread is here for anyone interested: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?256784-Arcane-Legends-Update-8-13-15

[kiwotsukete]

hmmm if thats true, then thats a bit too OP for pvp...

[Wazakesy]

Thanks alot shiny, Does it scale to the DMG? Its just a question i want to ask. I know its a pretty useless question to ask, since im in class atm ._.

[shinyx]

It does scale to damage. So my heal may be a bit on the extreme side. I think most mages will heal about 700 or 800 for 5 ticks.

I tested it vs rogues and it's still best to use 3 attacks and shield because the heal won't save you when shield breaks. It's mostly helpful in a clash, in which case the entire team benefits

[Wazakesy]

Well, it seems Mages are getting more useful...Time to gear up my mage :P

[Oursizes]

Yes, it does scale to damage. My undergeared mage was healing around 660-700 per tick. And now we wait for sts to say was an "unintended change" and nerf heal. Gg.

[Kingofninjas]

Yes, it does scale to damage. My undergeared mage was healing around 660-700 per tick. And now we wait for sts to say was an "unintended change" and nerf heal. Gg.
Mage stacking was already OP in clashes. Now STS just destroyed the use of having even a single rogue in a clash. GG.

[Candylicks]

Wow that's a nice buff!!! I will have to try it out. Thx Shiny!!

[CheifR]

Please mages don't still think heal good for elite maps; just pvp. Atleast until it doesn't pull aggro but even then 3damage skills ftw

P.s. ik all u guys above already know what you're doing :)

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[KnowledgeFTW]

This buff sounds awesome, I'll try out Lifegiver later
Thanks

[Madnex]

Noticed as well, it's a huge improvement! It's like a HoR after the first heal. 900-1200 per tick in endgame.

[Tatman]

Mage legends o.O

[KnowledgeFTW]

Mage legends o.O

Nope still rouge legends, however this upgrade will significantly/slighty help mages survive longer in PvP.

[Energizeric]

I've tried this on both my end game mage as well as my level 10 twink mage, and here is my analysis:

1) At end game it does little in a 1 on 1 battle. As was mentioned by Shiny, since you can be one-shot by a rogue, healing yourself is not going to help you in such a battle. Plus, even without the regrowth upgrade I was able to fully heal myself from about 20% health.

Where this would be useful is in a clash where the sorcerer is now able to fully heal a warrior with 7500+ health. I always thought sorcerers should have the best heal skill, and always thought it was strange that warriors did. In Pocket Legends, mages had the best heal. So now maybe it is so, although the warrior heal skill still provides the very useful shield for everyone.

Another thing I noticed is in PvE I can cast heal and run into a mob attacking, and when I take damage the health regen is still going (much like when a warrior heals) and so I end up healing myself.

2) At level 10 this is a game changer for mages. I'm not sure about other popular PvP levels, but at level 10 sorcerers were always quite inferior to the other classes. They were basically only useful in clashes to cast their curse, but in a 1 on 1 battle against a warrior or rogue they were useless. Now this all changes. Before this upgrade I was only able to fully heal my sorcerer from about 60% health, and since my sorcerer has 8 para gems, I'm guessing most level 10 sorcerers could only heal from about 75% health. But now with the increased health regen, I can fully heal from as low as 10% health. This is a major game changer. While I haven't tested it out that much yet, it appears that sorcerers will now be able to compete much better at lower levels.

[kananaskis]

yes very cool for making lower level mages competitive; looking forward to trying out on my 11 twink.

[Madnex]

It's actually pretty useful in endgame too, provided that you alternate shields correctly. I like it this much that I've been using it all the time with two attacking skills, even against maxed rogues.

Game changer against warrior 1v1's too.

[shinyx]

I like it this much that I've been using it all the time with two attacking skills, even against maxed rogues.

Are you using a strength build? That would be an interesting build now that I think about it

[Madnex]

Are you using a strength build? That would be an interesting build now that I think about it

Nope but I'm close to 5.8k hp due to eyes. Soft critical cap and 950 ish dmg. The heal upgrade would assist a strength build a ton too but I haven't found it very successful.

[shinyx]

Nope but I'm close to 5.8k hp due to eyes. Soft critical cap and 950 ish dmg. The heal upgrade would assist a strength build a ton too but I haven't found it very successful.

I was thinking that a strength build might be pretty solid if shield could hold up to 3-4 rogue combos. When curse was popular (back before the arcane shield upgrade), I used to carry an Amulet of Doom with all blood gems. When I encountered another mage with curse, I would swap out my Lunar for Doom and I'd watch the other mage melt away. So I was thinking something along those lines here.

[Zeus]

Sorcerers were already considered very overpowered in clash. I truly do not understand all these buffs made to the sorcerer class.

First, they got an upgraded damage absorb shield, roughly 10% upgrade compared to previous. Secondly, they got a shield invulnerable to debuffs like curse and stuns. Lastly, they now get this.

The first two upgrades were understandable. This makes it way over the top...

[Soundlesskill]

sorcerers were already considered very overpowered in clash. I truly do not understand all these buffs made to the sorcerer class.

First, they got an upgraded damage absorb shield, roughly 10% upgrade compared to previous. Secondly, they got a shield invulnerable to debuffs like curse and stuns. Lastly, they now get this.

The first two upgrades were understandable. This makes it way over the top...

Omg parf tree!

[Jexetta]

Incredible lol...

I'm going to the 'lol pvp' route more and more these days.

[Candylicks]

Incredible lol...

I'm going to the 'lol pvp' route more and more these days.
Lol @ AL is more like it these days!

[Visiting]

Lol @ STS is more like it 0.0

[Oursizes]

I think its time to give rogues their 10% damage back, or at least 5%. Its difficult now to even kill warriors due to their 25% debuff on axe. And if done right they can be immune to stuns/take 20-40% less damage AND be invulnerable continuously.

[Robhawk]

Well so it looks like rogues are the 1on1 beasts which no other class can beat equaly geared and mages/warriors own the team battlefield.

Consequences?

As a mage just join teamfights, stay away from any vs except other mages... LOL
As rogue just 1 shot/combo all players and stay away from teamfights... LOL
As warrior well you are somehow good to go for everything again? Reminds me of the AL-pvp beginning where the windmill killed everything and tanks were op... or the 1.5 years where arcane maul was glitched and stunlocked like hell.

gg!

[Robhawk]

I think its time to give rogues their 10% damage back, or at least 5%. Its difficult now to even kill warriors due to their 25% debuff on axe. And if done right they can be immune to stuns/take 20-40% less damage AND be invulnerable continuously.

Yes i sign that! Rogues need more damage! Seriously... Those 1 combos while shield is active and gale armor buff is at 2600armor is ridiculous even today, adding any damage to rgues means it doesnt need even a combo because a 8k aimed crit just insta kills... lol !

IMHO the damage of all classes should be reduced so a battle can last longer then like 0 to 5 seconds?

[kixkaxx]

Well so it looks like rogues are the 1on1 beasts which no other class can beat equaly geared and mages/warriors own the team battlefield.

Consequences?

As a mage just join teamfights, stay away from any vs except other mages... LOL
As rogue just 1 shot/combo all players and stay away from teamfights... LOL
As warrior well you are somehow good to go for everything again? Reminds me of the AL-pvp beginning where the windmill killed everything and tanks were op... or the 1.5 years where arcane maul was glitched and stunlocked like hell.

gg!

Stop trolling and giving away wrong informations. You can't kill rogue/warrior only shows you have no skill. Now Mage is pretty much dominating pvp.

[kixkaxx]

Yes i sign that! Rogues need more damage! Seriously... Those 1 combos while shield is active and gale armor buff is at 2600armor is ridiculous even today, adding any damage to rgues means it doesnt need even a combo because a 8k aimed crit just insta kills... lol !

I guess You will be happy when a no gear, no skill Mage like you can kill a fully geared pro rogue. Good luck!

[Edward Coug]

Yes i sign that! Rogues need more damage! Seriously... Those 1 combos while shield is active and gale armor buff is at 2600armor is ridiculous even today, adding any damage to rgues means it doesnt need even a combo because a 8k aimed crit just insta kills... lol !

IMHO the damage of all classes should be reduced so a battle can last longer then like 0 to 5 seconds?

I'm gonna quote Madnex's response to your post in another thread because it's clear that you didn't read it:

"Ever crossed your mind that applying nekro over shield only offers you a speed buff? Maybe that gale's 50% armor is canceled by aim shot's and axe throw's armor debuff due to game mechanics?"

[Robhawk]

I guess You will be happy when a no gear, no skill Mage like you can kill a fully geared pro rogue. Good luck!

Listen Mr. avshow: I mean nobody, really nobody cares about the problems you have with my person! I remember a rogue called avshow which was food in tdm... i guess thts you, right? Ok, now i know were your pain comes from!

Get over it, its just a game! Farm some plats get OP gear and you can compensate your huge lack of skill! GL

ps: Welcome to my ignore list, no need to answer... dont waste your time anymore i wont too!

[Vediovis]

Yes, yes. Finally the PvP rogue reign is slowly coming to an end. Now all the Mage needs is for Displacement Wave to be replaced with Reflect (similar to alpha wolf & goretusk) and I'll finally consider the Mage less squishy. Mwahahaha! :devilish:

Honestly though, this was a really nice buff. Ty sts!

[Robhawk]

I'm gonna quote Madnex's response to your post in another thread because it's clear that you didn't read it:

"Ever crossed your mind that applying nekro over shield only offers you a speed buff? Maybe that gale's 50% armor is canceled by aim shot's and axe throw's armor debuff due to game mechanics?"

When i release charged shield and release charged gale before the rogue even touchs me once what exactly gets canceled?

[Visiting]

When i release charged shield and release charged gale before the rogue even touchs me once what exactly gets canceled?

Your armor buff gets cancelled.

[Robhawk]

Your armor buff gets cancelled.

Well... debuffs override buffs, i can remember. That means my active 50% armor gale buff not only gets canceled by rogues aimed/shatter armor but also it debuffs my unbuffed armor value by 15%? Is this really correct? If thats the case its just awful but you are right -> this can explain the fast death... Damn this also shows how broken the pvp game mechanics are! The aimed debuff should decrease the actual amount of armor and shouldnt cancel other buffs instead, lol!:hopelessness:

Example: mage 1k armor -> 1,5k with gale -> aimed shot hits -> 50% gale armor buff canceled and 15% debuff applied -> drop from 1,5k armor to 0,85k? LOL

It should be: mage 1k armor -> 1,5k with gale -> aimed shot hits -> 50% gale armor buff still active and 15% debuff applied -> drop from 1,5k armor to 1,25k!

The difference between the 2 examples is nothing less then around 50% mages armorvalue... this is... lmao....aimed shots cooldown is 2 seconds so no need for any armor buff because it never will happen. I should have thought about this a little earlier, lol. ;) That also means use gale after the warrior used axe to apply the armor buff after axe`s debuff... but when the warrior is smart he uses a pets AA with the next armor debuff to get the mage squishy again... aahhh...
So its not about the gear and then skill its about knowing all the exploits/glitches/bugs in first place, then gear and then skill... I hope i`ll find a good one i will not tell anybody, haha! This reminds me of the very bad hitboxes in counterstrike... not the best aimer won but the one who knew all the hitbox glitches...

[Zeus]

Hello,

I've just wanted to post a few comments on the latest changes of the game. It seems that sorcerers heal now heals roughly 70% of their health + an additional 100% (5 ticks of 1100 health, as a maxed L46 sorcerer).

I really feel that this needs to be looked over. Prior to this buff, sorcerers were already considered very overpowered in clashes. So overpowered, in fact, that 3 sorcerers were more effective in a clash than two sorcerers and one rogue. So, clashes these days seem to be about stacking as many sorcerers and tanks as you can. It's come to the point where doing this can essentially guarantee a win if other side cannot match it.

This is not balance, truly. If anything, it makes clashing extremely skewers in favor of certain classes.


Let us take a look at sorcerer heal compared to warrior heal. The warrior heal provides two seconds of invulnerability and six ticks of 900-1K HP, roughly. This makes around 7K-9K HP healed. A sorcerer's heal will do far more than that, healing up to 170% of a person's HP bar. Heck, even rogue packs cannot accomplish this ludicrously! Now, with the prior buffs that sorcerers have already received (increased damage absorption and reduction + stun immunity/certain debuff immunity), this makes sorcerers over the top OP.

In a clash, with all the debuffs going around, a sorcerer can hit nearly as much as a rogue. The difference between the sorcerer and the rogue? The sorcerer gets a shield to protect it at all times; and it cannot be slowed, cursed, or stunned. Now, when you have two to three sorcerers doing this, it makes it quite difficult to overcome for obvious reasons.


Anyone who has clashed lately can confirm this. Please, think over this sorcerer buff and the repercussions it might have.

Thank you,

Zeus

[Kakashis]

Sorc are now the op class

[Hectororius]

I'm capping a sorc as we speak!

[Sariita]

+1. I know smurfs needed a buff but this is too much imo. This is game changing when it comes to clashes!
Nekro Shield + Arcane shield (They never get stunned) and now OP heal. GG.

[Edward Coug]

Mage Legends!

[Holyness]

Right. And rogues packs got debuffed anyway. With the new system its way to hard to win against a sorcerer then it should be

[Edward Coug]

Well... debuffs override buffs, i can remember. That means my active 50% armor gale buff not only gets canceled by rogues aimed/shatter armor but also it debuffs my unbuffed armor value by 15%? Is this really correct? If thats the case its just awful but you are right -> this can explain the fast death... Damn this also shows how broken the pvp game mechanics are! The aimed debuff should decrease the actual amount of armor and shouldnt cancel other buffs instead, lol!:hopelessness:

Example: mage 1k armor -> 1,5k with gale -> aimed shot hits -> 50% gale armor buff canceled and 15% debuff applied -> drop from 1,5k armor to 0,85k? LOL

It should be: mage 1k armor -> 1,5k with gale -> aimed shot hits -> 50% gale armor buff still active and 15% debuff applied -> drop from 1,5k armor to 1,25k!

The difference between the 2 examples is nothing less then around 50% mages armorvalue... this is... lmao....aimed shots cooldown is 2 seconds so no need for any armor buff because it never will happen. I should have thought about this a little earlier, lol. ;) That also means use gale after the warrior used axe to apply the armor buff after axe`s debuff... but when the warrior is smart he uses a pets AA with the next armor debuff to get the mage squishy again... aahhh...
So its not about the gear and then skill its about knowing all the exploits/glitches/bugs in first place, then gear and then skill... I hope i`ll find a good one i will not tell anybody, haha! This reminds me of the very bad hitboxes in counterstrike... not the best aimer won but the one who knew all the hitbox glitches...

What you're overlooking is that there are two powerful shields that mages have access to that can't be cancelled: the mage shield and the nekro shield. Rotating the two in a clash with a team of tanks, who have their own shield, make rogues (suddenly the only squishy class) a liability.

Congrats. Mages are the new OP class in PvP! Mage Legends!

[UnnamedGuy]

Agreed, now mages stun, has 2sec of complete immunity, removes all debuffs, heals 170% of their hp in 5secs and has aoe spells!

Mages didn't need a such buff. It became unfair now.

Kilian.

[Ravager]

Warrior invulnerability is 2s on globe and 6 ticks of heal. Not 3s and not 7 ticks.

I agree with the buff. I felt that mages were overall the weakest of the 3 classes and should be the AOE kings. Clashes are like grouped up mobs where AOE should help. Clashes may never be balanced but clashes should be where a mage belongs. 1v1 is where the rogue dominates.

[KnowledgeFTW]

Great, now waiting for a unwanted mage nerf people will riot about
GG

[shinyx]

:stupid:This thread lol.

Hahaha a rogue complaining that another class is op.

It's just a heal upgrade and it has very little use in the grand scheme of the game.

If anything in this game needs a nerf it's aimed shot. Why don't we look at what rogues are supposed to be good for: killing bosses and 1v1 but they're extremely op beyond that so let's not blow things out of proportion. We didn't see you rogues dancing around with pom poms in our support when heal was 5 hp for 10 seconds. So let's not pretend we're worried about class balance here.

Remember, we are reliant on shield! It's a handicap

[KnowledgeFTW]

Lolz @ everybody here

This buff is pretty useless in PvP sadly, great for clash but for 1 v 1 (espically to a rouge) its useless cause they kill you so fast.

So.....

Mages better now? Maybe, and if so, only a little bit.
Mages still squishy? Definitely.
Mages now have a chance against warriors and rouges? Depends on the situation but most of the times, yes.

Now everybody stop crying before we get a mage nerf. :banana:

If anything, we should have got our mana amount/regen increased. 800 - 1200 health ( depending on damage) per second is a little OP I agree (espically during a clash with an 8k+ health warrior)

However Lifegiver will need more better buffs for this to auctally be worthwhile in PvE.

[Ebezaanec]

I think STG could have improved the heal regen in increments rather than the drastic jump. The HP regen was ridiculously low before so anything is a welcome change.

[Zeus]

Warrior invulnerability is 2s on globe and 6 ticks of heal. Not 3s and not 7 ticks.

I agree with the buff. I felt that mages were overall the weakest of the 3 classes and should be the AOE kings. Clashes are like grouped up mobs where AOE should help. Clashes may never be balanced but clashes should be where a mage belongs. 1v1 is where the rogue dominates.

Clash should be where a Mage belongs, correct. However, when the class can replace a rogue's role in a clash, then it's severely imbalanced. I understand if you only need one rogue, but not needing any rogue is akin to not needing a warrior in PvE.

[Zeus]

:stupid:This thread lol.

Hahaha a rogue complaining that another class is op.

It's just a heal upgrade and it has very little use in the grand scheme of the game.

If anything in this game needs a nerf it's aimed shot. Why don't we look at what rogues are supposed to be good for: killing bosses and 1v1 but they're extremely op beyond that so let's not blow things out of proportion. We didn't see you rogues dancing around with pom poms in our support when heal was 5 hp for 10 seconds. So let's not pretend we're worried about class balance here.

Remember, we are reliant on shield! It's a handicap

Serious?

I was the first rogue to advocate for the sorcerer buff if you recall. I do not recall any sorcerer disagreeing with me, back then. In fact, many sorcerers agreed with my buff suggestions. Additionally, when the proposed buffs came, sorcerers agreed that things were balanced. Naturally, if more is added, then the game would become imbalanced, no?

A sorcerer can hit nearly as hard as a rogue in a clash - the various armor debuffs these days ensures that.

If anything, I can bring up numerous videos where in a clash, people swapped their rogue for a sorcerer in an attempt to gain an upper hand. Keep in mind that this is prior to heal buff. This has never occurred before, when sorcerer shield was not buffed. So, why now? What's changed? I think that question answers itself.

[Edward Coug]

Lolz @ everybody here

This buff is pretty useless in PvP sadly, great for clash but for 1 v 1 (espically to a rouge) its useless cause they kill you so fast.

So.....

Mages better now? Maybe, and if so, only a little bit.
Mages still squishy? Definitely.
Mages now have a chance against warriors and rouges? Depends on the situation but most of the times, yes.

Now everybody stop crying before we get a mage nerf. :banana:

If anything, we should have got our mana amount/regen increased. 800 - 1200 health ( depending on damage) per second is a little OP I agree (espically during a clash with an 8k+ health warrior)

However Lifegiver will need more better buffs for this to auctally be worthwhile in PvE.

The only way Lifegiver will ever be worthwhile in PvE is it gets changed to Lifetaker.

I'm actually happy about the buff. I was just so sick of hearing Rogue Legends over and over again.

[shinyx]

But following that logic, we should nerf warriors too. I mean, nobody will dispute that tank stacking is op.

The fact of the matter is that the use of mage heal is extremely situational. When it's needed, it should work as intended. I don't know how to put this another way; if mage is not shielded, there is no amount of healing that will save us from a single charged aim shot.

Geez, nobody has even tested this heal long enough yet, so aren't you jumping the gun a bit with a nerf thread? From my testing, it is better not to use heal vs a rogue. We'll see about the rest

[Zackyy]

I agree with you Zeus today the sorcerer station very OP is an unnecessary buff, but who should have a buff are tanks.

[Zeus]

But following that logic, we should nerf warriors too. I mean, nobody will dispute that tank stacking is op.

The fact of the matter is that the use of mage heal is extremely situational. When it's needed, it should work as intended. I don't know how to put this another way; if mage is not shielded, there is no amount of healing that will save us from a single charged aim shot.

Geez, nobody has even tested this heal long enough yet, so aren't you jumping the gun a bit with a nerf thread? From my testing, it is better not to use heal vs a rogue. We'll see about the rest

In regards to clash, the heal is overpowered. And no, tank stacking is not OP as their heal shields cannot stack. If anyone has had to play during the days when the heal shield did stack, those people would see what OP is. I actually like 4 tank clashes because those tanks always mess up heal order and it makes the DPS and the weak link easy to kill.


I agree with you Zeus today the sorcerer station very OP is an unnecessary buff, but who should have a buff are tanks.

Totally agree, tanks need a buff more than ever these days considering their jugg is easily broken (even by sorcerers, who have DoT).

[KnowledgeFTW]

The only way Lifegiver will ever be worthwhile in PvE is it gets changed to Lifetaker.

I'm actually happy about the buff. I was just so sick of hearing Rogue Legends over and over again.

You hate hearing "rouge legends" but now you proceed to say "mage legends" bias much? Lel (no offense)


Other than that I agree with you about this buff, necessary for this skill.

Thanks to a few rouges, mages will be nerfed. Lifegiver might as well be taken off the skill chart and replaced with something else.

[Visiting]

But following that logic, we should nerf warriors too. I mean, nobody will dispute that tank stacking is op.

The fact of the matter is that the use of mage heal is extremely situational. When it's needed, it should work as intended. I don't know how to put this another way; if mage is not shielded, there is no amount of healing that will save us from a single charged aim shot.

Geez, nobody has even tested this heal long enough yet, so aren't you jumping the gun a bit with a nerf thread? From my testing, it is better not to use heal vs a rogue. We'll see about the rest

1v1 aspects are irrelevant at this point in time considering that all PVP game modes currently in game are designed for team play (though not optimized for them (#GamesWonCounter)), so let's stick to purely team aspects. In a clash, or any type of group fight, mages were already regarded as more useful than rogues in comparison, due to the fact that they could heal the party, couldn't be stunned pretty much ever due to nekro/arcane shield, plus almost always had some sort of shield protecting their regularly squishy butts, and to go even farther, ALL of their skills are made for GROUP fights, whilst rogues can only attack one at a time, though they'll most likely do more dmg with their attacks than a lone sorc would, that doesn't really mean much when you compare it to the fact that sorcs are damaging the whole enemy team as a whole, making them a much more viable option for clashing, which is the "main point" of the current PVP modes we have. Now, with this buff, which makes the sorc heal even more beneficial to the whole team, especially a team comprised of just tanks/mages, since the mages can heal all of the tanks health in a single heal now! I fear that rogues will be getting the short end of the stick as warriors have been seeing in regards to PVE content (but that's another story XD).
So, long story short, I'm not saying that it needs nerfed directly, but I think STS should review this buff at the least.

[shinyx]

This thread is premature. It should be closed until the MAGES have had a chance to test. For crying out loud, mages haven't even tested fully and a rogue is asking for nerf. So much speculation in this thread. Let's not get something into people's heads prematurely

[Zeus]

This thread is premature. It should be closed until the MAGES have had a chance to test. For crying out loud, mages haven't even tested fully and a rogue is asking for nerf. So much speculation in this thread. Let's not get something into people's heads prematurely

Clash and evaluate, you'll find my claims are accurate. The fact that there are sorcerers supporting my claims while I am a rogue shows that this buff was perhaps made in error and should be toned down.

[shinyx]

Lol most mages don't even know about the buff yet. That's why I had to post a thread to inform people. That's why I say this nerf thread is premature.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Lol.

Rogues got their packs fixed within days of the bug. The sorcerer heal buff took near 3 years. Give us some time to feel OP :D

Jokes aside, a sorcerer's place is in a clash. You don't see us crying because a rogue is better in pretty much everything else in PvP do you? (Not any more anyway, not since the buff).

Sorcerers can't do as much damage as a rogue, that's a ridiculous myth. If sorcerers are running shield and the OP OP heal, that leaves 2 attack skills (provided they aren't curse mages). Fireball and lightning, usually. Let's say Fireball crits 2k damage and light 4k (I'm not max geared, so I'm unsure of actual numbers) - a rogue does say 5k on aim, 2k on Nox, 2k on sp. 9k versus 6k. Bearing in mind both are max geared and are attacking the same opponent.

Moving back to the main topic, I've always held that mages were meant to have a supporting role. This helps that. I do agree that maybe it needs to be nerfed slightly, by maybe a 100 damage less, or better still have STR as a factor rather than damage but I doubt that would ever happen.

[Visiting]

Lol.

Rogues got their packs fixed within days of the bug. The sorcerer heal buff took near 3 years. Give us some time to feel OP :D

Jokes aside, a sorcerer's place is in a clash. You don't see us crying because a rogue is better in pretty much everything else in PvP do you? (Not any more anyway, not since the buff).

Sorcerers can't do as much damage as a rogue, that's a ridiculous myth. If sorcerers are running shield and the OP OP heal, that leaves 2 attack skills (provided they aren't curse mages). Fireball and lightning, usually. Let's say Fireball crits 2k damage and light 4k (I'm not max geared, so I'm unsure of actual numbers) - a rogue does say 5k on aim, 2k on Nox, 2k on sp. 9k versus 6k. Bearing in mind both are max geared and are attacking the same opponent.

Moving back to the main topic, I've always held that mages were meant to have a supporting role. This helps that. I do agree that maybe it needs to be nerfed slightly, by maybe a 100 damage less, or better still have STR as a factor rather than damage but I doubt that would ever happen.
Pssst, Al, support #RemoveMedicPacks2015, and you'll never have to worry about packs ever again!

[Oursizes]

But following that logic, we should nerf warriors too. I mean, nobody will dispute that tank stacking is op.

The fact of the matter is that the use of mage heal is extremely situational. When it's needed, it should work as intended. I don't know how to put this another way; if mage is not shielded, there is no amount of healing that will save us from a single charged aim shot.

Geez, nobody has even tested this heal long enough yet, so aren't you jumping the gun a bit with a nerf thread? From my testing, it is better not to use heal vs a rogue. We'll see about the rest

Im gonna have to go with Shiny on this one. Earlier today I (a rogue with no ring no nekro) was able to kill a shielded mage using heal with 2-3 combos. So mages can definitely still be easily killed, just not so easy to the point of using one combo. Rogue was meant for more of a 1v1 or 1v2 where you can kill your opponents fast. They are sometimes needed in some clashes depending on the lineup. Id say let this new heal stay a while and see where it goes. Also, at the beginning of expansion a rogue with the new bow and l36 mythics pendant etc could easily 1 combo a mage with their shield up if aim and sp crit. So this new heal definitely gjves mages surviving opportunity.
P.S. im not a mage,.

[Oursizes]

Lol.

Rogues got their packs fixed within days of the bug. The sorcerer heal buff took near 3 years. Give us some time to feel OP :D

Jokes aside, a sorcerer's place is in a clash. You don't see us crying because a rogue is better in pretty much everything else in PvP do you? (Not any more anyway, not since the buff).

Sorcerers can't do as much damage as a rogue, that's a ridiculous myth. If sorcerers are running shield and the OP OP heal, that leaves 2 attack skills (provided they aren't curse mages). Fireball and lightning, usually. Let's say Fireball crits 2k damage and light 4k (I'm not max geared, so I'm unsure of actual numbers) - a rogue does say 5k on aim, 2k on Nox, 2k on sp. 9k versus 6k. Bearing in mind both are max geared and are attacking the same opponent.

Moving back to the main topic, I've always held that mages were meant to have a supporting role. This helps that. I do agree that maybe it needs to be nerfed slightly, by maybe a 100 damage less, or better still have STR as a factor rather than damage but I doubt that would ever happen.

Actually ive seen some max rogues do around 3k on sp(high end crit) so 10k or even more in some situations.

[Oursizes]

You hate hearing "rouge legends" but now you proceed to say "mage legends" bias much? Lel (no offense)


Other than that I agree with you about this buff, necessary for this skill.

Thanks to a few rouges, mages will be nerfed. Lifegiver might as well be taken off the skill chart and replaced with something else.

You should really read before you post. He clearly stated hes glad mages got a good buff. Rogue legends meant that rogues dominated every single aspect of the game. At least now mages have a better chance in pvp.

[Zeus]

Im gonna have to go with Shiny on this one. Earlier today I (a rogue with no ring no nekro) was able to kill a shielded mage using heal with 2-3 combos. So mages can definitely still be easily killed, just not so easy to the point of using one combo. Rogue was meant for more of a 1v1 or 1v2 where you can kill your opponents fast. They are sometimes needed in some clashes depending on the lineup. Id say let this new heal stay a while and see where it goes. Also, at the beginning of expansion a rogue with the new bow and l36 mythics pendant etc could easily 1 combo a mage with their shield up if aim and sp crit. So this new heal definitely gjves mages surviving opportunity.
P.S. im not a mage,.

Again, I'm talking about clashes - which is what PvP is. 1v1 scenarios are not really PvP and until 1v1 comes, that balance is not yet a concern. Once 1v1 comes, then yes, expect that I'll be giving input on how to make it fair for all classes. However, it does go both ways. I do not think anyone can deny how overpowered sorcerers are in clashes now (which is a majority of endgame PvP).

[Zeus]

Lol.

Rogues got their packs fixed within days of the bug. The sorcerer heal buff took near 3 years. Give us some time to feel OP :D

Jokes aside, a sorcerer's place is in a clash. You don't see us crying because a rogue is better in pretty much everything else in PvP do you? (Not any more anyway, not since the buff).

Sorcerers can't do as much damage as a rogue, that's a ridiculous myth. If sorcerers are running shield and the OP OP heal, that leaves 2 attack skills (provided they aren't curse mages). Fireball and lightning, usually. Let's say Fireball crits 2k damage and light 4k (I'm not max geared, so I'm unsure of actual numbers) - a rogue does say 5k on aim, 2k on Nox, 2k on sp. 9k versus 6k. Bearing in mind both are max geared and are attacking the same opponent.

Moving back to the main topic, I've always held that mages were meant to have a supporting role. This helps that. I do agree that maybe it needs to be nerfed slightly, by maybe a 100 damage less, or better still have STR as a factor rather than damage but I doubt that would ever happen.

9K vs 6K when rogues are 4.9k-5.5K HP. Dead is dead, damage does not matter if it exceeds HP.

As of right now, the current heal makes sorcerers able to support as well as output enough damage to wipe a rogue in a clash based environment (majority of PvP).

[KnowledgeFTW]

You should really read before you post. He clearly stated hes glad mages got a good buff. Rogue legends meant that rogues dominated every single aspect of the game. At least now mages have a better chance in pvp.

I did read it, twice auctally. I don't mean any harm to Edward.
All I said was that don't go saying ( xxx legends ) when you hate hearing it.
As for buff, I'm glad it came through.

[Eldorado]

Maybe you forgot it takes 1 skill slot for this heal totally reducing max combo damage. And how come it will be an issue to stack multiple mages if heal doesnt stack invulnerability like warriors do? Mage can still be one shot by one rogue, make it two then for sure it will be dead already without even using a skill.

[ColaxRic]

Do you realise how weak the mage heal was compared to other class heals? Yes, it can also heal mana but had no special addition and it only heals an average amount once. Since both Warrior and Rogue heals have heal over time with very decent amount, this buff is quite fair.

[Alhuntrazeck]

9K vs 6K when rogues are 4.9k-5.5K HP. Dead is dead, damage does not matter if it exceeds HP.

As of right now, the current heal makes sorcerers able to support as well as output enough damage to wipe a rogue in a clash based environment (majority of PvP).
Of course the numbers I listed are for hypothetical situations, let's say an unshielded mage. Those numbers will NEVER hit a rogue in a clash because of the Nekro shield and the rogues' already high armor. The damage dealt will be more like 3-4k lol.

[Serillia]

9K vs 6K when rogues are 4.9k-5.5K HP. Dead is dead, damage does not matter if it exceeds HP.

As of right now, the current heal makes sorcerers able to support as well as output enough damage to wipe a rogue in a clash based environment (majority of PvP).

Rogues have the fastest cd'ing skills in the game, which allows them to hit faster than a mage. So even though dead is dead, the rogue would get the kill before the mage. If you can see path of thinking, you can see how this could be effective in clashes.

Yes, mages have a shield, even without the Nekro shield, to protect them. But keep in mind, it is a skill and shield is the only way a mage can get decent survivability. Yes, decent, because geared rogues can easily break shields in 2-3 combos. Without this skill(or Nekro shield), mages are 'paper'. The heal gives them a chance to support the team, which imo, will make clashes more challenging. I'm confident the heal isn't as huge a buff as everyone makes it to be. Because 1k hp back per tick, met with a rogue's aim or even another mage's light crit......we go back to Dead is dead. It will however help warriors survive longer which will allow them to protect their team further. Rogues are not all useless. Mages with 5+ paras can perhaps do the dmg of a rogue with 1 para. Equal geared mages and rogues do NOT do the same dmg. So, rogues are still the best class in taking out the opposite team's dps, which will make the clash easier. And you say rogues are the majority of PvP. This is only because rogues are/were over-powered and many veterans and new players opted to go for the rogue class so that they wouldn't be squished. Hopefully, because of the new buffs, you'll see more and more sorcerers in PvP.

And I'm also confident that if people try hard enough, they can adapt to this buff. All the same, you could be right too. Let's hear the opinions of others(especially mages) after they clash a few times too(Clashes are precious few these days,unless organized). Then we can decide if the heal needs to be nerfed.

[Eldorado]

Do you realise how weak the mage heal was compared to other class heals? Yes, it can also heal mana but had no special addition and it only heals an average amount once. Since both Warrior and Rogue heals have heal over time with very decent amount, this buff is quite fair.
Yes, very fair indeed. Considering that mage skill cooldown is far more longer than other class. Sacrificing one slot for heal will totally affect combo damage.

[hioo]

Pvp is now arrypotta's dog...
Next they make rog be able
To shoot thru wall? Or mage shield to disrupt pet AA....
Or maybe all warriors to lose 50 dps out of the blue

[shinyx]

Maybe you forgot it takes 1 skill slot for this heal totally reducing max combo damage. And how come it will be an issue to stack multiple mages if heal doesnt stack invulnerability like warriors do? Mage can still be one shot by one rogue, make it two then for sure it will be dead already without even using a skill.

Precisely. "People" are forgetting it uses a skill slot. That leaves us with Heal, Shield, Fireball and Light. Only 2 attack skills. With the testing that I have done, it is the rogues who are made stronger by our heal. They use our hp regen to crossand kill the opposing, unshielded mage. Haha it's basically backfiring on us.

I also tested in TDM extensively. All I hear is "Mage heal." At the end of the TDM games, the rogues are all getting 7 or 8 kills and now I'm only getting 2 or 3 because I'm limited to 2 attack skills. Anyone who plays TDM know I am usually the leading scorer in most games or at least 2nd most kills. Now I'm getting 2. Lol gg. That's why I said this nerf campaign was premature.


Do you realise how weak the mage heal was compared to other class heals? Yes, it can also heal mana but had no special addition and it only heals an average amount once. Since both Warrior and Rogue heals have heal over time with very decent amount, this buff is quite fair.

Seriously, the rogue heal was previously better than the mage heal. And to some degree it still is because rogues can stack up packs. How many times have you all seen packs left behind and unused? That tells us it heals more than even needed. That's why I lol'd when i saw the nerf thread. Mage is the weakest class in pvp and needed this buff badly

[Alejandros]

I think none of you is watching these from a twink perspectiva view finally twink mages have a decent heal that is not only 50%hp while rogues heal over 105%hp..... Game is not only about endgame most PvP maps are played on twink brackets :))

[ColaxRic]

I think none of you is watching these from a twink perspectiva view finally twink mages have a decent heal that is not only 50%hp while rogues heal over 105%hp..... Game is not only about endgame most PvP maps are played on twink brackets :))

What I wanted to say but I just couldn't word it. In twinks, mages never beat rogues when both has close to equal gear.

[Ravager]

Clash should be where a Mage belongs, correct. However, when the class can replace a rogue's role in a clash, then it's severely imbalanced. I understand if you only need one rogue, but not needing any rogue is akin to not needing a warrior in PvE.

But speaking of balance, I always hate seeing one class, rogue, dominating nearly every aspect of the game. That's imbalance.

[Alejandros]

Pls STG dont nerf this skill, i mean even if its better than rogues heal...cmon rogues ruled PvP for way too long time dnt complain if it doesnt keep that way I understand many of you have invested lot of gold gearing ur rogué full of para but pls dnt try to manipulare this on rogues favour..... Still tanks heal is the best since 3seconds invulnerabilidad means A LOT in all brackets even more at endgame

[Alejandros]

This was a needed buff for twink brackets and none active twink player cant say it wasnt dnt only watch it as a endgame player perspective pls
Ty

[Hulkstance]

I agree that this was an unneeded buff also making pvp clashes unfair and i think that tank is a class that should be buffed instead of sorcerer.

[Schnitzel]

Clash should be where a Mage belongs, correct. However, when the class can replace a rogue's role in a clash, then it's severely imbalanced. I understand if you only need one rogue, but not needing any rogue is akin to not needing a warrior in PvE.

I know y'all are focusing this from a PvP standpoint, but here's my opinion as a pure PvE mage.
Especially in elites, us (mages) are "squishy", so the 1100 heal (@ lvl46) is very helpful, especially if you're like me, running with only legendary items, having less than 3k health.

Also, if I remember correctly, during lvl41 up until now, its always been along the lines of "Need Rogue" and "Need more Rogues", Mages and Warriors have been getting (I think they call it) the "Short end of the rope(?)". Now, Mages have gotten a buff in heal (I dunno about anyone else, but that 1k heal is extremely useful in PvE). Its not like we've been given a boost in dmg/dps. We still are a support class, we've just been made a "better support" class.

Another thing, this kind of reminds me of Fibus' signature "'Paper is ok, nerf rock' -Scissors"
Paper = Warriors
Rock = Mage
Scissors = Rogues



Obviously, I'm going to get a lot of hate for writing my opinion in this thread, but from when I started really playing AL (last year, started during Tindirin cap), I've always found that rogues have always been the OP ones. On the Planar test server, (with a +9int Arc Ring), a rogue one shots me, and I die in TDM. Next fight, I charge and use shield, rogue runs and one shots me again. Is that really fair? (Obviously I don't PvP, but I couldn't even land a hit with a fireball before i died). Also last I checked, at the same level as me, no arc ring, I saw a rogue with more health, armor, and damage/dps than me

Rogues have (from my playing) always been the ones in the spotlight. Maybe give us a chance to shine?

[Alejandros]

+1 mages buff was needed

[Alejandros]

I know y'all are focusing this from a PvP standpoint, but here's my opinion as a pure PvE mage.
Especially in elites, us (mages) are "squishy", so the 1100 heal (@ lvl46) is very helpful, especially if you're like me, running with only legendary items, having less than 3k health.

Also, if I remember correctly, during lvl41 up until now, its always been along the lines of "Need Rogue" and "Need more Rogues", Mages and Warriors have been getting (I think they call it) the "Short end of the rope(?)". Now, Mages have gotten a buff in heal (I dunno about anyone else, but that 1k heal is extremely useful in PvE). Its not like we've been given a boost in dmg/dps. We still are a support class, we've just been made a "better support" class.

Another thing, this kind of reminds me of Fibus' signature "'Paper is ok, nerf rock' -Scissors"
Paper = Warriors
Rock = Mage
Scissors = Rogues



Obviously, I'm going to get a lot of hate for writing my opinion in this thread, but from when I started really playing AL (last year, started during Tindirin cap), I've always found that rogues have always been the OP ones. On the Planar test server, (with a +9int Arc Ring), a rogue one shots me, and I die in TDM. Next fight, I charge and use shield, rogue runs and one shots me again. Is that really fair? (Obviously I don't PvP, but I couldn't even land a hit with a fireball before i died). Also last I checked, at the same level as me, no arc ring, I saw a rogue with more health, armor, and damage/dps than me

Rogues have (from my playing) always been the ones in the spotlight. Maybe give us a chance to shine?

Totally agree with you now mages will be %1 more helpful in pve still rogues rule pve tho....

[KnowledgeFTW]

+1 mages buff was needed

+2 buff was necessary

[Eldorado]

Mage will never be a spotlight. Even with this buff heal will never be useful in pve because it steals aggro and makes one dead mage. In pvp, there are lots of damage to be sacrificed just for the heal skill. Still thanks for sts for buffing mage. Now just waiting for warriors to be buff.

[Diggdugg]

You guys keep forgetting that the game does not revolve around pvp, this is a pve game primary and a pvp secondary so the heal is nice and helps pve (which is the primary aspect of game imo). Sts does something good by fixing a worthless skill and everyone in pvp complains.. Just enjoy the game mages are soo squishy they need the heal

[Schnitzel]

You guys keep forgetting that the game does not revolve around pvp, this is a pve game primary and a pvp secondary so the heal is nice and helps pve (which is the primary aspect of game imo). Sts does something good by fixing a worthless skill and everyone in pvp complains.. Just enjoy the game mages are soo squishy they need the heal

Agreeing to this

[Alhuntrazeck]

I know y'all are focusing this from a PvP standpoint, but here's my opinion as a pure PvE mage.
Especially in elites, us (mages) are "squishy", so the 1100 heal (@ lvl46) is very helpful, especially if you're like me, running with only legendary items, having less than 3k health.

Also, if I remember correctly, during lvl41 up until now, its always been along the lines of "Need Rogue" and "Need more Rogues", Mages and Warriors have been getting (I think they call it) the "Short end of the rope(?)". Now, Mages have gotten a buff in heal (I dunno about anyone else, but that 1k heal is extremely useful in PvE). Its not like we've been given a boost in dmg/dps. We still are a support class, we've just been made a "better support" class.

Another thing, this kind of reminds me of Fibus' signature "'Paper is ok, nerf rock' -Scissors"
Paper = Warriors
Rock = Mage
Scissors = Rogues



Obviously, I'm going to get a lot of hate for writing my opinion in this thread, but from when I started really playing AL (last year, started during Tindirin cap), I've always found that rogues have always been the OP ones. On the Planar test server, (with a +9int Arc Ring), a rogue one shots me, and I die in TDM. Next fight, I charge and use shield, rogue runs and one shots me again. Is that really fair? (Obviously I don't PvP, but I couldn't even land a hit with a fireball before i died). Also last I checked, at the same level as me, no arc ring, I saw a rogue with more health, armor, and damage/dps than me

Rogues have (from my playing) always been the ones in the spotlight. Maybe give us a chance to shine?

Short end of the stick ;)

[Zeus]

I know y'all are focusing this from a PvP standpoint, but here's my opinion as a pure PvE mage.
Especially in elites, us (mages) are "squishy", so the 1100 heal (@ lvl46) is very helpful, especially if you're like me, running with only legendary items, having less than 3k health.

Also, if I remember correctly, during lvl41 up until now, its always been along the lines of "Need Rogue" and "Need more Rogues", Mages and Warriors have been getting (I think they call it) the "Short end of the rope(?)". Now, Mages have gotten a buff in heal (I dunno about anyone else, but that 1k heal is extremely useful in PvE). Its not like we've been given a boost in dmg/dps. We still are a support class, we've just been made a "better support" class.

Another thing, this kind of reminds me of Fibus' signature "'Paper is ok, nerf rock' -Scissors"
Paper = Warriors
Rock = Mage
Scissors = Rogues



Obviously, I'm going to get a lot of hate for writing my opinion in this thread, but from when I started really playing AL (last year, started during Tindirin cap), I've always found that rogues have always been the OP ones. On the Planar test server, (with a +9int Arc Ring), a rogue one shots me, and I die in TDM. Next fight, I charge and use shield, rogue runs and one shots me again. Is that really fair? (Obviously I don't PvP, but I couldn't even land a hit with a fireball before i died). Also last I checked, at the same level as me, no arc ring, I saw a rogue with more health, armor, and damage/dps than me

Rogues have (from my playing) always been the ones in the spotlight. Maybe give us a chance to shine?

Heal draws aggro. As a sorcerer, using it will just speed up your demise.


You guys keep forgetting that the game does not revolve around pvp, this is a pve game primary and a pvp secondary so the heal is nice and helps pve (which is the primary aspect of game imo). Sts does something good by fixing a worthless skill and everyone in pvp complains.. Just enjoy the game mages are soo squishy they need the heal

As mentioned above, heal draws aggro. Using it will speed up your demise, making it counterproductive in PvE. It's pure a pvp skill.


More specifically, it's the heal over time function that generates so much aggro. You're welcome to try it out!

[Schnitzel]

Short end of the stick ;)

Oops, sorry about that

[Zeus]

Maybe you forgot it takes 1 skill slot for this heal totally reducing max combo damage. And how come it will be an issue to stack multiple mages if heal doesnt stack invulnerability like warriors do? Mage can still be one shot by one rogue, make it two then for sure it will be dead already without even using a skill.

Sorcerers get a shield, they are nearly shielded all the time by either Nekro or Arcane Shield. Everybody keeps mentioning one shot but nobody mentions how often a Mage is not shielded (very rarely).

The heal can stack and keep them alive in between the very little time that a sorcerer does not have a shield.

@Colax
Yes, I do, however they had many other qualities to make up for this.

[Wazakesy]

Sorcerers get a shield, they are nearly shielded all the time by either Nekro or Arcane Shield. Everybody keeps mentioning one shot but nobody mentions how often a Mage is not shielded (very rarely).

The heal can stack and keep them alive in between the very little time that a sorcerer does not have a shield.

@Colax
Yes, I do, however they had many other qualities to make up for this.

Not to even forget with 2mage stacks, the heal can be like 1st heal and 2nd heal orders when the warrior's heal is over, GG for rogues. Seems we need to get the dmg back or make a mage Parth, i see a dead end for rogues in PvP

[Alejandros]

Not to even forget with 2mage stacks, the heal can be like 1st heal and 2nd heal orders when the warrior's heal is over, GG for rogues. Seems we need to get the dmg back or make a mage Parth, i see a dead end for rogues in PvP

Well maybe rogues can focus on twinks brackets now since on twink brackets theres 1mage every 15rogues.... :)
Ps: Also keep in mind that on twink brackets this heal only keep mages alive when their shield is up bcuz when their shield is down they are a 1combo mage..... :)

[Schnitzel]

Sorcerers get a shield, they are nearly shielded all the time by either Nekro or Arcane Shield. Everybody keeps mentioning one shot but nobody mentions how often a Mage is not shielded (very rarely).

The heal can stack and keep them alive in between the very little time that a sorcerer does not have a shield.

@Colax
Yes, I do, however they had many other qualities to make up for this.

eh...some of us mages don't/can't afford Nekros. Currently, I'm just running with a mage shield (and the occasional Fantasma shield)

[Wazakesy]

Well maybe rogues can focus on twinks brackets now since on twink brackets theres 1mage every 15rogues.... :)
Ps: Also keep in mind that on twink brackets this heal only keep mages alive when their shield is up bcuz when their shield is down they are a 1combo mage..... :)

The topic here isnt about twinks, i was talkin about endgame - just so you know, place your twinking problems in another thread? No need to de-rail/complicate an end-game thread into a twink thread.

[Zeus]

Well maybe rogues can focus on twinks brackets now since on twink brackets theres 1mage every 15rogues.... :)
Ps: Also keep in mind that on twink brackets this heal only keep mages alive when their shield is up bcuz when their shield is down they are a 1combo mage..... :)

So your solution is no solution? Perhaps you would rather enjoy playing a dead game. Keep in mind that rogue is the most popular class - imagine what's going to happen when they're not longer viable in PvP clashes (something rogues are already facing an issue with).

Honestly, a large majority of the commenters in this thread are also people who lack concept of game mechanics and thus negatively influence the game when they really have NO idea what they are talking about. These players know who they are.

[Alejandros]

The topic here isnt about twinks, i was talkin about endgame - just so you know, place your twinking problems in another thread? No need to de-rail/complicate an end-game thread into a twink thread.

Well mate seems that you dnt happem to know that any changes whatsoever happens on endgame affect every single lv aka all PvP maps so pls take your cry rogué problems to another game :)

[Zeus]

eh...some of us mages don't/can't afford Nekros. Currently, I'm just running with a mage shield (and the occasional Fantasma shield)

Most of the players in PvP in today's PvP do have a Nekro. Isn't it better to keep suggestions limited to concepts you understand? Keep in mind that suggestions go directly to developer ears, so any misguided suggestions can negatively impact the game and often times are things that are never repaired.

[Energizeric]

Parth:

I didn't have time to read this whole debate, but here are my thoughts:

1) At end game you are somewhat correct. The heal is a bit OP now. But before the regrowth upgrade was so useless that nobody used it. Now I agree it is a little bit OP. So perhaps the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. Remember that to use this upgrade it means switching a skill point from something else.

IMO every skill upgrade should be equally useful. So when there is a skill upgrade that nobody ever uses, then STS needs to either change or buff that skill point so that some people start to use it. But if everyone is using it, then perhaps it is buffed too much.

2) At twink levels, sorcerers have always been somewhat useless except as a support class to cast the occasional curse in PvP. Just go into twink pvp fights and you rarely even see a sorcerer because nobody wants to play them. When I first started out at level 10, I was told not even to bother and that I should choose another class. Well I spent many millions and ended up putting together an 8 para PvP set with Nekro, and I have by far the highest damage of any player at level 10 (over 150 damage with Nightshade). Even still, there are level 10 warriors who can just stand there and heal in a 1-on-1 battle and not even fight back and I can't kill them. And there are rogues that can take me down in 1-on-1 battles very easy.

So this sort of change was necessary for twink levels. I still don't know that it fixes everything, but it certainly helps and in time I will make that determination.

So perhaps they need to scale this skill upgrade a bit differently. Maybe leave it as is for lower levels, but do not scale it to higher levels as steep as the current scaling is. I think maybe that is the best solution.


On a side note, I always have thought that sorcerers/mages should have the best heal skill. That is how it is in every other MMO I am aware of.

A true judge of how OP (or not) a certain class is in PvP is KDRs. Take a look at some of the best PvP sorcerers and tell me what their KDRs are, then look at the same for rogues and warriors, and then tell me who is OP. Or better yet, look at the leaderboards for PvP and tell me who dominates those leaderboards.

[shinyx]

Honestly, a large majority of the commenters in this thread are also people who lack concept of game mechanics and thus negatively influence the game when they really have NO idea what they are talking about. These players know who they are.

Wow!

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion

[KnowledgeFTW]

You guys keep forgetting that the game does not revolve around pvp, this is a pve game primary and a pvp secondary so the heal is nice and helps pve (which is the primary aspect of game imo). Sts does something good by fixing a worthless skill and everyone in pvp complains.. Just enjoy the game mages are soo squishy they need the heal

100% agree, finally a reasonable player who isn't crying over this buff that's more PvE oriented, not PvP!

[Zeus]

Well mate seems that you dnt happem to know that any changes whatsoever happens on endgame affect every single lv aka all PvP maps so pls take your cry rogué problems to another game :)

Any other level of PvP is irrelevant, as proven by twink tournaments that barely managed to occur (lack of participation). That being said, there should be a scale that keeps the heal relatively useful for twinks but scaled appropriate for end game.

[Eldorado]

Sorcerers get a shield, they are nearly shielded all the time by either Nekro or Arcane Shield. Everybody keeps mentioning one shot but nobody mentions how often a Mage is not shielded (very rarely).

The heal can stack and keep them alive in between the very little time that a sorcerer does not have a shield.

@Colax
Yes, I do, however they had many other qualities to make up for this.
Nekro shield should never be an issue because not only mage can use them but all of the other class.

[Zeus]

Wow!

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion

Yes, but when they're players that do not understand game mechanics, then there should be some sort of filter. M

@Ener
Mage isn't support class here, there's a developer quote on it so there's no need for the heal to be the most powerful. I do feel like they overshot and a figure of 500 HP per second for 5 seconds seems more appropriate.

[Alejandros]

Any other level of PvP is irrelevant, as proven by twink tournaments that barely managed to occur (lack of participation). That being said, there should be a scale that keeps the heal relatively useful for twinks but scaled appropriate for end game.

Agreed to this that being said mages should get over 1k hp per tick tho but nerf the heal isnt the solution either, maybe put a max of 1khp heal pero tick or sth like that(dnt know if its posible to do that)

[Zeus]

Nekro shield should never be an issue because not only mage can use them but all of the other class.

It is an issue as sorcerers can hold off on Nekro for longer as damage reduction does not stack.

[Energizeric]

Any other level of PvP is irrelevant, as proven by twink tournaments that barely managed to occur (lack of participation). That being said, there should be a scale that keeps the heal relatively useful for twinks but scaled appropriate for end game.

Yes, this is the solution. As has been expressed, this is a change that was very needed for twink levels.

[Alejandros]

Parth:

I didn't have time to read this whole debate, but here are my thoughts:

1) At end game you are somewhat correct. The heal is a bit OP now. But before the regrowth upgrade was so useless that nobody used it. Now I agree it is a little bit OP. So perhaps the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. Remember that to use this upgrade it means switching a skill point from something else.

IMO every skill upgrade should be equally useful. So when there is a skill upgrade that nobody ever uses, then STS needs to either change or buff that skill point so that some people start to use it. But if everyone is using it, then perhaps it is buffed too much.

2) At twink levels, sorcerers have always been somewhat useless except as a support class to cast the occasional curse in PvP. Just go into twink pvp fights and you rarely even see a sorcerer because nobody wants to play them. When I first started out at level 10, I was told not even to bother and that I should choose another class. Well I spent many millions and ended up putting together an 8 para PvP set with Nekro, and I have by far the highest damage of any player at level 10 (over 150 damage with Nightshade). Even still, there are level 10 warriors who can just stand there and heal in a 1-on-1 battle and not even fight back and I can't kill them. And there are rogues that can take me down in 1-on-1 battles very easy.

So this sort of change was necessary for twink levels. I still don't know that it fixes everything, but it certainly helps and in time I will make that determination.

So perhaps they need to scale this skill upgrade a bit differently. Maybe leave it as is for lower levels, but do not scale it to higher levels as steep as the current scaling is. I think maybe that is the best solution.


On a side note, I always have thought that sorcerers/mages should have the best heal skill. That is how it is in every other MMO I am aware of.

A true judge of how OP (or not) a certain class is in PvP is KDRs. Take a look at some of the best PvP sorcerers and tell me what their KDRs are, then look at the same for rogues and warriors, and then tell me who is OP. Or better yet, look at the leaderboards for PvP and tell me who dominates those leaderboards.

+1 to this mage buff on twinks was needed

[Zeus]

Agreed to this that being said mages should get over 1k hp per tick tho but nerf the heal isnt the solution either, maybe put a max of 1khp heal pero tick or sth like that(dnt know if its posible to do that)

Rogue packs get 30% HP per pack and are significantly harder to get oneself to be healed with. Why would a sorcerer get 66% of that in one tick on top of a nearly full health heal?

[KnowledgeFTW]

OKAY I admit this buff to Lifegiver is a BIT OP. But before nobody used it and now people are upset that STS trys to make heal more alive?
This buff is somewhat useful now to twink mages, before this twinking smurfs were seen as support class rather than AoE, and mages barely won 1v1 to rouges.
After this buff, rouges can still over power us mages very fast. Remember this buff, was meant to be more PvE oriented, not PvP. Rouges still dominate PvP, so I don't know why so many rouges are upset. We don't want a skill nobody's gonna use. Don't criticize STS for doing good work and instead thank them for putting up with our complaning points. But I do agree that this skill upgrade may have been buffed to much haha. Still, I don't want any more nerfs or buffs to heal, except reduced cool down time in exchange for less Mana/health regen.

Thank you and have a good day.
NOTE: Its fine if you don't agree with me but don't criticize me for having an honest opinion, amen.

[shinyx]

Any other level of PvP is irrelevant, as proven by twink tournaments that barely managed to occur (lack of participation). That being said, there should be a scale that keeps the heal relatively useful for twinks but scaled appropriate for end game.

Why do you keep saying it's not appropriate? Based on what testing? It's only been 24 hours. This thread is a downward spiral. Maybe it would have been appropriate after a month or a few weeks but it's been 24 hours. As I said already. So much presumption and baseless argument. Since you say you like to work out, you'll know what I mean when i say it's "Bro Science"

[Eldorado]

It is an issue as sorcerers can hold off on Nekro for longer as damage reduction does not stack. They can hold on much longer but as stated normally mages only have that shield but now even rogue and warriors can have the shield. Longer yes, because they have the shield to begin with.

[Alejandros]

Rogue packs get 30% HP per pack and are significantly harder to get oneself to be healed with. Why would a sorcerer get 66% of that in one tick on top of a nearly full health heal?

I think you are forgetting: First that rogue's can stock of packs while mages can only heal once(would matter a lot when a mage decides to heal), second that rogue's cd are extremely short and they can output insane dmg in less time than any other class given that 15% armor debuff from aim cancels any armor buff, so even nekro mages will get around 5seconds with no shield whatsoever making it a 1combo mage

[shinyx]

They can hold on much longer but as stated normally mages only have that shield but now even rogue and warriors can have the shield. Longer yes, because they have the shield to begin with.

AND we have to use a skill slot for that shield.

[Energizeric]

Well so it looks like rogues are the 1on1 beasts which no other class can beat equaly geared and mages/warriors own the team battlefield.

Consequences?

As a mage just join teamfights, stay away from any vs except other mages... LOL
As rogue just 1 shot/combo all players and stay away from teamfights... LOL
As warrior well you are somehow good to go for everything again? Reminds me of the AL-pvp beginning where the windmill killed everything and tanks were op... or the 1.5 years where arcane maul was glitched and stunlocked like hell.

gg!

You do make some really good points. When mages used to complain about not being able to win 1-on-1 battles, we were told that mages were not supposed to be good in 1-on-1 situations and that we were made to battle groups with our DoT skills, like in a clash. We were told that rogues are so good in 1-on-1 situations because they were meant for that with their high target/high crit single target attack skills.

But apparently rogues also think they should be just as good as the other classes in clashes too. And now if they are somewhat less useful than a mage, that is no good for them.

As Zeus said in the other thread, Rogues are indeed the most popular class in AL, and the reason is because they have always been the most OP. They are the only class that can solo elite dungeons. They are masters of taking down bosses and in 1-on-1 battles in PvP. They own the leaderboards for every event we have ever had. They own the leaderboards for PvP. And they own the leaderboards for timed runs as well.

Perhaps Zeus is saying that because Rogues are the most popular, that they must be kept as the most OP class in order to keep the majority of players happy. Silly me I thought the goal was for balance.

Balance can mean many things. It can mean that all classes are equally good in every situation -- clearly NOT the case in AL. Or it could mean each class is equally good in certain situations, while equally bad in others. So what exactly are rogues bad at?

[shinyx]

You do make some really good points. When mages used to complain about not being able to win 1-on-1 battles, we were told that mages were not supposed to be good in 1-on-1 situations and that we were made to battle groups with our DoT skills, like in a clash. We were told that rogues are so good in 1-on-1 situations because they were meant for that with their high target/high crit single target attack skills.

But apparently rogues also think they should be just as good as the other classes in clashes too. And now if they are somewhat less useful than a mage, that is no good for them.

As Zeus said in the other thread, Rogues are indeed the most popular class in AL, and the reason is because they have always been the most OP. They are the only class that can solo elite dungeons. They are masters of taking down bosses and in 1-on-1 battles in PvP. They own the leaderboards for every event we have ever had. They own the leaderboards for PvP. And they own the leaderboards for timed runs as well.

Perhaps Zeus is saying that because Rogues are the most popular, that they must be kept as the most OP class in order to keep the majority of players happy. Silly me I thought the goal was for balance.

Balance can mean many things. It can mean that all classes are equally good in every situation -- clearly NOT the case in AL. Or it could mean each class is equally good in certain situations, while equally bad in others. So what exactly are rogues bad at?

A lot of what comes out of your mouth is gold. This is one of those times too

[shinyx]

Rogue packs get 30% HP per pack and are significantly harder to get oneself to be healed with. Why would a sorcerer get 66% of that in one tick on top of a nearly full health heal?

Since it fills up our hp 100%, have you considered that most of the ticks are wasted? And most of the hp from each tick is wasted? That's why we need a stong regen so that it heals when needed.

[Energizeric]

Perhaps you would rather enjoy playing a dead game. Keep in mind that rogue is the most popular class - imagine what's going to happen when they're not longer viable in PvP clashes (something rogues are already facing an issue with).

When mages used to complain about not being able to win 1-on-1 battles, we were told that mages were not supposed to be good in 1-on-1 situations and that we were made to battle groups with our DoT skills, like in a clash. We were told that rogues are so good in 1-on-1 situations because they were meant for that with their high target/high crit single target attack skills.

But apparently rogues also think they should be just as good as the other classes in clashes too. And now if they are somewhat less useful than a mage, that is no good for them.

Yes, Rogues are indeed the most popular class in AL, and the reason is because they are the most OP. They are the only class that can solo elite dungeons (with the small exception of a few OP and very skilled players). They are masters of taking down bosses and in 1-on-1 battles in PvP. They own the leaderboards for every event we have ever had. They own the leaderboards for PvP. And they own the leaderboards for timed runs as well.

Are you saying that because Rogues are the most popular, that they must be kept as the most OP class in order to keep the majority of players happy? Silly me I thought the goal was for balance.

Balance can mean many things. It can mean that all classes are equally good in every situation -- clearly NOT the case in AL. Or it could mean each class is equally good in certain situations, while equally bad in others. So what exactly are rogues bad at? Maybe now there will actually be an answer to this question.

[Excuses]

Tbh I'm enjoying this heal very much. (my twink is a mage)
Now twink mages can stand up for vs with other class.
Rogue is doable, tank is still hard. Perfectly balanced as 'rock paper scissors' role.
5 sec idea was brilliant because that's the pro and con of this HOT.

I do not know about end game but I know mages are annoying in clash. But I see this more as stacking class problem. Stacking more than 3 of same class always cause imbalance. I would rather like to suggest to have a class restriction that we can not have more than 2 of same class on same side. No more tank and mage stack then problem will be solved. I know this will cause another problem but just wanted to address the real problem of pvp system.


And I also second that warrior need buff on both pvp and pve. Pvp must be scaled by level tho.

[Zeus]

Tbh I'm enjoying this heal very much. (my twink is a mage)
Now twink mages can stand up for vs with other class.
Rogue is doable, tank is still hard. Perfectly balanced as 'rock paper scissors' role.
5 sec idea was brilliant because that's the pro and con of this HOT.

I do not know about end game but I know mages are annoying in clash. But I see this more as stacking class problem. Stacking more than 3 of same class is always cause imbalance. I would rather like to suggest to have a class restriction that we can not have more than 2 of same class on same side. No more tank and mage stack than problem will be solved. I know this will cause another problem but just wanted to address the real problem of pvp system.


And I also second that warrior need buff on both pvp and pve. Pvp must be scaled by level tho.

This would also be a great solution.

[Energizeric]

And BTW, put a full team of warriors in a clash and then tell me what happens? It's not just sorcerers that have that ability to stack.

[Seoratrek]

Hello everyone,

I've merged and moved these two threads. Please remember to post your feedback into the feedback forum and not the general discussion. Also, be sure to see if there is an already existing topic before creating a new one. It makes it more difficult to gather information when it is scattered over multiple threads in multiple forums. Thanks! :)

[Energizeric]

The biggest problem with twink levels is that pet happiness bonuses do not scale. This has resulted in twinks becoming very OP with arcane pets as they receive the same stat bonus as end game players do. So you have players running around with 100-150 extra armor from their pet, when their total armor before the pet was only around 300-400. That would be like giving an end game player 1000+ armor from his pet.

Same goes for the health bonuses from pets. Singe and Maridos both give 50%+ health increases at lower levels. This is why PvP at lower level is so much more fun because it's harder to kill someone, so battles actually last more than 2 seconds. But because of this, the balance is thrown off compared to end game.

Unfortunately it is too late for STS to fix this as you cannot go back and change pet bonuses after people have already purchased and hatched these pets. So they are trying to fix it through other methods.

However, going forward I would suggest in the future that as pets become more powerful, the happiness bonuses should scale to level. For example, instead of Singe giving 250 health, it could have been a 10% health bonus. Instead of Abaddon giving 110 armor, it could have been a 10% armor boost.

Like I said, it's too late to go back, but maybe going forward they should make future pets like this, so that twinks don't continue to become more and more OP.

[Zeus]

Why do you keep saying it's not appropriate? Based on what testing? It's only been 24 hours. This thread is a downward spiral. Maybe it would have been appropriate after a month or a few weeks but it's been 24 hours. As I said already. So much presumption and baseless argument. Since you say you like to work out, you'll know what I mean when i say it's "Bro Science"


I've already clashed against it and tested individually. You should make a clash and test as well.


@Eld
So what's your point? You're stating exactly what I'm illustrating as an issue - that amongst all these buffs, sorcerers are shielded all the time and on top of this, they now get an overpowered heal as well.

@Alejandro
Packs do not move, and smart player would not clash where a rogue has stacked packs. Additionally, sorcerer skill cool downs are relatively short as well. 3 seconds on lightning, no?

@Ener
We are talking about balance in PvP - not other aspects of the game. Those are issues of their own.

@Shiny
If this is the case, then a 500 HP tick per second will not make a difference to you. Most of the health is washed, correct? :)

[shinyx]

@Shiny
If this is the case, then a 500 HP tick per second will not make a difference to you. Most of the health is washed, correct? :)

Because if 4 out if the 5 ticks are wasted

[Zeus]

Because if 4 out if the 5 ticks are wasted

A rogue aim hits every 3-4 seconds (accounting time to charge, as a regular aim will not be enough), so there's enough time to make the heals useful.

[shinyx]

A rogue aim hits every 3-4 seconds (accounting time to charge, as a regular aim will not be enough), so there's enough time to make the heals useful.

Irrelevant. That's a 1v1 example. We've already established mage heal is terrible 1v1 vs rogue. Moreover, aim is not the only skill yiu have. Your aim is followed up by nox, pierce and auto. Mage is dead, gg

As ener said, what are you trying to do here, make sure that rogue dominates every single aspect of the game?

[Alejandros]

Hello everyone,

I've merged and moved these two threads. Please remember to post your feedback into the feedback forum and not the general discussion. Also, be sure to see if there is an already existing topic before creating a new one. It makes it more difficult to gather information when it is scattered over multiple threads in multiple forums. Thanks! :)
If mages heal gets debuff then will be another area rogues will completely 100% rule .... No balance at all then :/

[Americabud]

Please keep the mage heal the same, if anything buff it some more. It was Much needed for a class with lowest armour, lowest health, lowest crit, lowest damage. Keep up the good work sts

[Haligali]

I think STG could have improved the heal regen in increments rather than the drastic jump. The HP regen was ridiculously low before so anything is a welcome change.

Did you tested the hp regen before? I had a discussion with Instanthumor, the hp regen was the exact same as a lvl41 Samael hp regen back at last cap. I would not call that weak.

[Eldorado]

Irrelevant. That's a 1v1 example. We've already established mage heal is terrible 1v1 vs rogue. Moreover, aim is not the only skill yiu have. Your aim is followed up by nox, pierce and auto. Mage is dead, gg

As ener said, what are you trying to do here, make sure that rogue dominates every single aspect of the game?
Totally agree. Just want Rogue to dominate the game, which is obvious.

[rstilzchen]

Buff rogue -> mages and wars cry.
Buff mage -> rogues cry.
____________________________
In purposes to get most helpful feedback, i would reccomend to STS to listen to SORCERERS, cuz it's Sorc's improvement.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________
Feedback from sorcerer:
1) PVE: skill now pretty useful in normal maps, and even deserves a slot. So, it is not a clearly pvp skill, that kinda very good.
For elites it wont find any uses, since you get aggro with it, and waste your slot.
2) PVP: Sorc's heal was a weakest heal comparing with other classes. Sorcs dont need mana, thats why crying rogues should be appreciated for our years of service for them, instead of crying. Obviously, this skill was needed for changes.
What now?
-In vs mage with necro could win warrior with necro before update. Now it will be even easier, but - with this update nothing changed. [endgame]
-In vs mage with anything couldnt win rogue in most cases (could win through elements of luck - crit, proc, opponents' mistakes, opponent's bad luck with crit) [endgame]. Nothing changed here after update. Since usually rogues hit is 80-100% of mage's 5500 hp, 1k per tick wont help and will be just wasting of slot.
Note: that fact, that rogues kill all, mages kill tanks, and tanks lose mostly in 1v1 fights, deserves a look, but this is not topics theme.
-In clashes: sorcerers were great in clashes before this update as well. This change can make fights longer and less dependent on lucky rogue's crit (that is kinda good). I see it makes rogues feel useless themselves. For me it looks like dont even respect yourself. Remember that universal argument about necro: everyone has necro in team, so necro is not game breaker (it isnt my argument).
Everyone has sorc in team as well, so everything is ok! Good rogues will find uses for themselves, like good sorcs did in their worst times.

In total: Skill deserved to get improvement. Now skill is not OP, is some situations it is useful, in some it isnt. Fights should be now a bit longer, that also really inspires me. Next step should be warriors changes.
PS for purse-proud rogues. When someone come closer to your level, it called balance and fairness. These dont deserve to get nerf.

[Ivengeance]

Mages are soft compare to rogue and tank , so that Heal update is fair enough for mage users :D

[Dex Scene]

Lol. Buff mage more and more.
Longest Stun immunity, highest mana storage, huge damage, tanky op shield, aoe skills, only class with stun abilities in skills attacks, only class with mana regeneration.
Now this :)
What next?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Serillia]

Lol. Buff mage more and more.
Longest Stun immunity, highest mana storage, huge damage, tanky op shield, aoe skills, only class with stun abilities in skills attacks, only class with mana regeneration.
Now this :)
What next?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

Tanky OP shield? Without the "tanky OP shield" mages are....well I'll leave it to you to find a suitable word. Even with the shield, mages do not have the survivability of a tank! Not even close. Warriors and rogues both have AoE skills. Warriors have stun ability in skill attack. Mages mana regeneration is required the most by rogues. Take that out and see how many rogues will complain ^_^

[Dex Scene]

Tanky OP shield? Without the "tanky OP shield" mages are....well I'll leave it to you to find a suitable word. Even with the shield, mages do not have the survivability of a tank! Not even close. Warriors and rogues both have AoE skills. Warriors have stun ability in skill attack. Mages mana regeneration is required the most by rogues. Take that out and see how many rogues will complain ^_^
Go pvp and see a team of rogues vs a team mages. Equal gears btw. I don't want to hear from avg mages how they get one shot by maxed out rogues. See which team wins.

Also go tdm see clashes. Mages move moves like a jagger with their stun immuned shield. Its the rogues who dies the most in any clash.

Sure rogues have nox. Which we can charge in pvp but mostly nox is swapped out with Razor shield. Pierce and aim surely does great aoe.

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[Imaganger]

All i can see here are crying rogues.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Go pvp and see a team of rogues vs a team mages. Equal gears btw. I don't want to hear from avg mages how they get one shot by maxed out rogues. See which team wins.

Also go tdm see clashes. Mages move moves like a jagger with their stun immuned shield. Its the rogues who dies the most in any clash.
Sure rogues have nox. Which we can charge in pvp but mostly nox is swapped out with Razor shield. Pierce and aim surely does great aoe.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

Called class balance. Make a team of 5 warriors and fight 5 mages. See who wins. Make a team of 5 rogues and fight 5 warriors. See what happens.

[Dex Scene]

Called class balance. Make a team of 5 warriors and fight 5 mages. See who wins. Make a team of 5 rogues and fight 5 warriors. See what happens.
Well if that so, rogues need invulnerability skill and a mana regen skill like the other two classes if it's for class balance.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Newcomx]

Maybe pvp players can get Screen Shot of the clashes using lifegiver and see whose team win and which class got the most kill.

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

[Excuses]

Well if that so, rogues need invulnerability skill and a mana regen skill like the other two classes if it's for class balance.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

Then other two classes will need aim shot too right?
Rogue has the highest dmg skills and lack of invulnerability skill and a mana regen skill so it's fair.
That's why there are 3 classes in game to help each other.

[Kriticality]

Twink mages need buff. End game not so much. The best mages can already beat the best rogues in 1 v 1.

Rogues are already the squishiest class in clash. They get one shot or combo'd far more frequently than mages for obvious reasons.

Leave the buff and let us be the most squishy but most efficient killers in game. Give us pet damage and remove our pvp nerfs. Release the Kraken!!!

PS Hey Remiem :)

[Spell]

Twink mages need buff. End game not so much. The best mages can already beat the best rogues in 1 v 1.

Rogues are already the squishiest class in clash. They get one shot or combo'd far more frequently than mages for obvious reasons.

Leave the buff and let us be the most squishy but most efficient killers in game. Give us pet damage and remove our pvp nerfs. Release the Kraken!!!

PS Hey Remiem :)

Rogues really should get pet damage from the pets they have...+1

[Zeus]

Irrelevant. That's a 1v1 example. We've already established mage heal is terrible 1v1 vs rogue. Moreover, aim is not the only skill yiu have. Your aim is followed up by nox, pierce and auto. Mage is dead, gg

As ener said, what are you trying to do here, make sure that rogue dominates every single aspect of the game?

No, you need to charge aim in a clash example as well if you want to take out a Mage. Oh, good luck hitting every single skill on a rogue in clash. Lastly, any rogue that's using nox against a Mage should go ahead and quit rogue - they do not know how to fight a Mage. Any decent rogue knows that nox is swapped out for razor shield against a Mage. It's pretty much necessary.

Rogue does not dominate every single aspect of the game. There are class leaderboards that ensure equal rewards for players. Furthermore, many timed runs utilize a sorcerer, as you very well know. So where exactly do rogues have an upper hand? Arena? That is a boss only map and poorly designed. Rogues are meant to be boss killers and that should've been thought of when creating arena (limitations on amount of rogues allowed in party to run arena). So, what exactly do sorcerers lack? Difficulty to place position on LB? No, in fact their overall LB are among the easiest of every class in the game. The fact that new players can come and be on sorcerer leaderboard shows just that. Essentially, those are highly grotesque and fallacious statements.

Lastly, many sorcerers here are making comments about their class that lack the skill of a good sorcerer. You want to see a sorcerer that's amazing? Check out Arrypotta for 1v1 or clash. Another good example is Voorg who's also one of the most effective sorcerers I've seen in a clash. Those are good sorcerers that have never found the need to make excuses for their class & dominate rogues on a daily basis. If a sorcerer is not able to kill like them, they're just not good enough. Sorry, but that's the brutal truth.

[Serillia]

Go pvp and see a team of rogues vs a team mages. Equal gears btw. I don't want to hear from avg mages how they get one shot by maxed out rogues. See which team wins.

Also go tdm see clashes. Mages move moves like a jagger with their stun immuned shield. Its the rogues who dies the most in any clash.

Sure rogues have nox. Which we can charge in pvp but mostly nox is swapped out with Razor shield. Pierce and aim surely does great aoe.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

I stated rogues had AoE skills too. It is upto the rogue whether or not to use it.

Rogues vs mages clash, Ofcourse mages will win. What do you expect? Mages are the crowd control class. In a vs situation, tell me how this OP tanky shield fares against an equal geared rogue? They do the 'best' AoE. Rogues have razor which grants them stun immunity. That rotated with Nekro can surely give you enough time to do whatever you desire to do while not being stunned?

You swap out nox for razor? Sure. This gives you stun immunity too or haven't you noticed that part yet? It is rogues who die most in any clash? Which class gets the most kill in any clash? Rogues.

Also, mage heals are not for the mage only. It is for the whole team. This does not make them OP from a clash based view. Rogues are still required to take out the opposite team fast enough to cripple them.

Light does great AoE too btw :3

[Serillia]

Well if that so, rogues need invulnerability skill and a mana regen skill like the other two classes if it's for class balance.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

Are you talking from a 1vs1 point of view? The warrior invulnerability is for the whole team, which means you get it too. Rogues have the shortest cd'ing skills in the game.

[Robhawk]

rogues own the 1on1 quite a while, no doubt! Rogues also got BY FAR the most kills in clashs in the past, NO DOUBT! Rogues just play PVE without the need of warriors and mages and can do timed runs faster then other classes... Now the heal buff takes away something from rogues although you also profit from this heal and you start to cry how op mages are?

Also the heal buff doesnt help in any way in a 1on1 mage vs rogue, like shiny said its totally useless there! The only benefit is in clashes, were rogues profit too and the biggest advantage is, like avikk said, the 1on1 matchup mage vs warrior. Thats the scenario where it really help a lot imho.

edit: Also what about the upcoming 1on1 arena? With current game mechanics its not a 1on1 arena its just a rogue arena!

[Dex Scene]

Are you talking from a 1vs1 point of view? The warrior invulnerability is for the whole team, which means you get it too. Rogues have the shortest cd'ing skills in the game.

I am saying about class vs class. Depending on warriors or mages proves nothing.
A mage's team consisting a rogue can aimshot the enemy for him.
Either way, this buff is needless. Mages are great in PVP and I wonder what would the reactions of other classes be if Rogues get sudden needless buff.

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[shinyx]

Go pvp and see a team of rogues vs a team mages. Equal gears btw. I don't want to hear from avg mages how they get one shot by maxed out rogues. See which team wins.

Also go tdm see clashes. Mages move moves like a jagger with their stun immuned shield. Its the rogues who dies the most in any clash.

Sure rogues have nox. Which we can charge in pvp but mostly nox is swapped out with Razor shield. Pierce and aim surely does great aoe.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk


Try playing mage. You'll find the grass is greener on the other side. All of our abilities have been nerfed, such as stun (due to razor and nekro) and what were we left with, a shield that breaks? I don't think you've tried mage yet. My kdr on rogue is far better than my mage, even though I have hardly any experience playing rogue.

[Visiting]

This issue only affects the PVP aspect of the game, so it would make sense that PVPers opinions on the matter would take precedence over the PVE'ers opinions on this matter...

[Americabud]

This issue only affects the PVP aspect of the game, so it would make sense that PVPers opinions on the matter would take precedence over the PVE'ers opinions on this matter...
Actually it effects PvP pve. So it does not make sense that any of your comments or anyone else's take precedence over anothers . unless your really important, if not your just another player so don't lie on forums telling all players that some opinions trump others

[Visiting]

Actually it effects PvP pve. So it does not make sense that any of your comments or anyone else's take precedence over anothers . unless your really important, if not your just another player so don't lie on forums telling all players that some opinions trump others

Where does it affect PVE? If you're using Heal in PVE for any legitamate map/Elite, I hate to tell you this, but, any skilled player will tell you to lose the heal. It's just not a good choice for PVE scenarios where you need the Mage to be in charge of crowd control, not health/mana control (considering all other classes and you can use pots far more effective than a heal would be...).

[shinyx]

Where does it affect PVE? If you're using Heal in PVE for any legitamate map/Elite, I hate to tell you this, but, any skilled player will tell you to lose the heal. It's just not a good choice for PVE scenarios where you need the Mage to be in charge of crowd control, not health/mana control (considering all other classes and you can use pots far more effective than a heal would be...).

Heal isn't good vs rogue either. Enough said

[Visiting]

Heal isn't good vs rogue either. Enough said

1v1 scenarios is also a place where heal isn't viable, yes, what's your point as far as this statement?

[Kriticality]

The issue prob isn't so much that the buff is even bad on its own. Sounds like the issue is having 3 of them with two tanks could potentially cause imbalance. I'm still not sure tho. Will have to play clash against 3 mages to see if there's a difference.

[Serancha]

This issue only affects the PVP aspect of the game, so it would make sense that PVPers opinions on the matter would take precedence over the PVE'ers opinions on this matter...

Yes, it affects mostly pvp players, I agree. But if you read my posts again, I was not raising a pvp / pve issue, but a "best player" vs "everyone else" issue that seems to have developed in this topic this morning.




This only affects PvP, so unless you do PvP...it doesn't make sense to give input on something that affects PvP only, which you do not play. Of course, I still welcome you to post your opinion but I do not see what contribution it has if you do not experience these things first hand.


I wasn't giving my opinion on the mage issue, I was commenting on the tone of the conversation, stating that putting down other players (including pvp players) doesn't make your points more valid.

I was merely pointing out that I think all opinions are valuable, and seeing a conversation derailed due to this behaviour is both counterproductive and annoying to those of us trying to filter facts from fiction.

Not to mention it will get a potentially useful discussion written off by the devs as non-constructive. I am guessing since you raised the topic, you would rather see the devs pay attention to it. They won't do that if you tell people their opinions don't count because they are not the best in game, or they don't pvp enough.

[shinyx]

1v1 scenarios is also a place where heal isn't viable, yes, what's your point as far as this statement?

Ok, just wanted to hear you agree that heal is not viable vs rogue. So all this noise is based on a presumption that this heal will change clashes? If CTF were played correctly, none of this would even matter.

[Visiting]

Ok, just wanted to hear you agree that heal is not viable vs rogue. So all this noise is based on a presumption that this heal will change clashes? If CTF were played correctly, none of this would even matter.

I try to keep from commenting on 1v1 scenarios due to the fact that I personally feel that 1v1s are silly and a waste of time at this point in the game, I feel that STS should work on improving CTF/TDM instead of adding a 1v1 arena (but that's another thread in the making). From a clash scenario, which is the scenario that should be seen the most due to the fact that the current PVP modes are team based, I feel that rogues are the last class to be needed if they're needed all, but, I don't believe the heal change has anything to do with that. Though, it does make it more likely for a team with more mages VS a team with more rogues in comparison to win every match due to the Mage heal being ridiculously good as opposed to the previous "good enough". While I personally don't know if the new heal is "overpowered" or not, I do think that STS should test this buff more, possibly coming in game and testing with the community, namely you, Zeus, Madnex, and other people who understand how the game and their respective classes work.

[Americabud]

Thank you for the mage heal buff sts you know what you are doing!

[Edward Coug]

OKAY I admit this buff to Lifegiver is a BIT OP. But before nobody used it and now people are upset that STS trys to make heal more alive?
This buff is somewhat useful now to twink mages, before this twinking smurfs were seen as support class rather than AoE, and mages barely won 1v1 to rouges.
After this buff, rouges can still over power us mages very fast. Remember this buff, was meant to be more PvE oriented, not PvP. Rouges still dominate PvP, so I don't know why so many rouges are upset. We don't want a skill nobody's gonna use. Don't criticize STS for doing good work and instead thank them for putting up with our complaning points. But I do agree that this skill upgrade may have been buffed to much haha. Still, I don't want any more nerfs or buffs to heal, except reduced cool down time in exchange for less Mana/health regen.

Thank you and have a good day.
NOTE: Its fine if you don't agree with me but don't criticize me for having an honest opinion, amen.

As I said before, lifegiver will never be better than simply using pots in PvE. It's not a PvE skill.

[Americabud]

Not everyone can afford pots. This mage heal is beneficial to pvp and pve. Much needed and appreciated sts

[shinyx]

I try to keep from commenting on 1v1 scenarios due to the fact that I personally feel that 1v1s are silly and a waste of time at this point in the game, I feel that STS should work on improving CTF/TDM instead of adding a 1v1 arena (but that's another thread in the making). From a clash scenario, which is the scenario that should be seen the most due to the fact that the current PVP modes are team based, I feel that rogues are the last class to be needed if they're needed all, but, I don't believe the heal change has anything to do with that. Though, it does make it more likely for a team with more mages VS a team with more rogues in comparison to win every match due to the Mage heal being ridiculously good as opposed to the previous "good enough". While I personally don't know if the new heal is "overpowered" or not, I do think that STS should test this buff more, possibly coming in game and testing with the community, namely you, Zeus, Madnex, and other people who understand how the game and their respective classes work.


I hear what you're saying. The reality, however, is that clash does not really exist. The game is called CTF but some of the predominant voices opposing the mage heal buff are from people who only care about having an advantage over their rival guilds. I'm sorry, but the class that I waited so long to have improved should not be designed around people's ideas of benefits their guild drama.

This isn't directed towards you but I hope you feel what I'm trying to say.

Someone please make bullet points of the key issues discussed so that we can sort through the fluff.

[Visiting]

OKAY I admit this buff to Lifegiver is a BIT OP. But before nobody used it and now people are upset that STS trys to make heal more alive?
This buff is somewhat useful now to twink mages, before this twinking smurfs were seen as support class rather than AoE, and mages barely won 1v1 to rouges.
After this buff, rouges can still over power us mages very fast. Remember this buff, was meant to be more PvE oriented, not PvP. Rouges still dominate PvP, so I don't know why so many rouges are upset. We don't want a skill nobody's gonna use. Don't criticize STS for doing good work and instead thank them for putting up with our complaning points. But I do agree that this skill upgrade may have been buffed to much haha. Still, I don't want any more nerfs or buffs to heal, except reduced cool down time in exchange for less Mana/health regen.

Thank you and have a good day.
NOTE: Its fine if you don't agree with me but don't criticize me for having an honest opinion, amen.

As far as having a skill that no one wants to use...
Heal was already a PVP must have for mages, it keeps your team's HP and Mana full better than any other skill (especially with this buff). You want a really useless skill? Try Shadow Storm Shot. Nuff said.

[shinyx]

As far as having a skill that no one wants to use...
Heal was already a PVP must have for mages, it keeps your team's HP and Mana full better than any other skill (especially with this buff). You want a really useless skill? Try Shadow Storm Shot. Nuff said.


There has never once been a mage who didn't grunt and mosn if the team asked them to yse heal. People act as if we even like heal. We don't. But if we must use it in some situations, we'd rather have it work well. Indeed, any mage in this game would rather use 3 attack skills instead of heal.

[Visiting]

As I said before, lifegiver will never be better than simply using pots in PvE. It's not a PvE skill.

It's around 200k to max both types of options, are you telling me with farming as it is, that people can't farm a single lock, buy a few hundred potions with the money earned from that singular locked crate, then farm arena until they loot a SINGLE vial, or even go farm some insignias, or even easier, go farm teeth, and with that profit they can easily buy more pots, plus continue farming towards whatever goal(s) they may have. So, still, I see no real use for heal to be used by anyone full time in PVE...

[Schnitzel]

To Topic,
This thread has yet again turned into a "'Paper is fine, nerf rock' -Scissors" kind of thread.
Not directing this at anyone in particular, but like many others have stated, Rogues have been dominating every aspect of Arcane Legends for so long (I started during the Tindirin cap, and it still feels like Rogues > all other classes). I don't remember a time where someone didn't say "Too many mages/warriors, need rogue" or "X slots Y map, need rogue".

Mages are crowd control/support, so its logical to have a shield (because we're squishy) and a Heal skill (for support) so we can heal our party members.
Warriors should have high armor and HP but low damage because they are a defense class, someone that holds the enemies from attacking the rogues and mages, to keep them from dying
Rogues are an attack class, so yes, its logical to have high damage, but is it really needed they they also have high armor and health? Isn't that what warriors should have? Isn't that what makes Warriors useful? (because they can tank damage so other classes can help kill the enemies)

Ideally, what I believe ultimately is "class balance" is where like rock, paper, scissors, one beats the other, and none can beat both.
In my opinion,

Warriors should have high health, high armor, and low/mid damage: to take damage, and hold aggro (so that they rely on rogues to do the damage, and a mage to heal/crowd control mobs)
Rogues should have low health, low armor, and high damage (so they rely on warrs to take damage so that they don't get killed, and a mage to heal/crowd control mobs)
Mages should have low/mid health, low/mid armor, and moderate damage (so that they rely on rogues to do damage, warrs to defend them; while they heal the other classes and do crowd controlling)

This way, each class must rely on the other for something, making them all useful

Just my thoughts
(Also, my thoughts are from a PvE standpoint)

[Americabud]

IMO, rouges are supposed to be fast and DMG? Why are the armour stats 1.7k to 2.3k armour while mages armour is 1k-1.5k and rouges already have 35% to 45% crit which means 1/ 2 hits are critical DMG from rouge, mages crit 15% to 30% so 1/5 hits are crit. Rouges also have same damage as mages and in most cases more damage. More DMG + high crit = highest hitters in the game, +2k armour = why is rouge highest hitter but not the most vulnerable class, oh that right, it because mages are the most vulnerable class, no way mages can compete with damage x critical = true damage.. Those are facts, any rouge begging to relook at this heal is obviously not having the games best interest at heart and they personally want rouges to stay way to overpowered because they are one.

[Visiting]

There has never once been a mage who didn't grunt and mosn if the team asked them to yse heal. People act as if we even like heal. We don't. But if we must use it in some situations, we'd rather have it work well. Indeed, any mage in this game would rather use 3 attack skills instead of heal.

Formerly, I played Mage myself, so I totally understand where you're coming from, I personally used a PVE spec in PVE unless I was needed to clash. While I don't dislike heal or anything, I just wasn't confident with it due to me being a mainly PVE Mage, but as such, I understood my classes' place in a fight, just as I do in a PVE setting, where my/our job is to help the team by doing as much DMG possible while controlling where the mobs are, or in a PVP setting, making sure that the team isn't killed by other team, which means using heal to support the team, while simultaneously doing as much damage to the other team as possible. Personally, prior to this buff, I thought that the Mage heal was perfectly fine, or at least I had no real problems with it, now, I feel as if it unbalances clashes in the mages favor, but as I previously said, I can't make a solid statement on it until the community does some more testing and gets some solid numbers on the matter, and until STS releases a statement on it as well so we can know their thoughts on the buff.

[Americabud]

And I thank you again sts for this mage heal buff, its not op or some immortal heal but its a step in the right direction to expand the game in a way that EACH class is unique and USEFUL!

[Seoratrek]

Thank you for your feedback everyone. Please remember to keep your posts constructive, friendly, and on-topic. I will forward this feedback to the devs so they can take a look.