classbalace - WHO are the ppl to judge?

[Robhawk]

I just have to say something that nobody ever said clear enough until now!

What i absolutly DONT LIKE in all that discussion from rogues, like Zeus and other maxed out toons, is the fact that the only mages that count in your world are a haaaaandfuullll mages with maxed out gear, with paras and eyes only! I mean we have voorg, rage, arry, tonga, seven beeing recognized maxed out in every aspect! If you, Zeus, had to make a list of mages with maxed out, best possbile gear -> how many in total? 10? or perhaps 20? So these 10 or 20 mages out of all mages in game are the only ones representative? Dont get me wrong but this so narrow minded!

All those discussion regarding what is wrong, what is right, what is to OP and so on IN EVERY THREAD is mostly done by 1% maxed geared players!

THATS NOT REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE 99% OF AL-PLAYERBASE!

16 EYE gems = 16 noble lightings + 6 noble finesse + 6 noble fury + 6 noble mind -> lol ?!!?!

Compare these facts and you will have to admit that it is like using 34 gem slots instead of 16! Now is it OP playing with 34 instead of 16 gem slots? So every myth/arcane item needs 6 gem slots and legendary gear needs 4 slots equipped with noble jewels to compensate the EYE setup... When you don't like the comparison with the more skill slots a full EYE gem setup nearly adds another arcane ring or myth pendant.

Should this really be the basis for class balance discussions, although only 1% of playerbase can afford such an OP setup?




Just a small look into the future:

After l46 myth set will be common to most players there will be again 20 players out of complete playerbase, like arry, zeus, voorg, tonga, rage and some more that will be able to afford all item slots with paras and eyes.... and those players again will be considered as the best tof the best which is imho just not the case!
THESE PLAYERS ARE THE 0,5%> THAT CAN AFFORD THE BEST POSSBILE GEARSETUP AND THAT IS WHAT SEPERATES THEM IN FIRST PLACE! That doesnt mean they are perhaps also the most skilled players, at least some of them.

edit: I also have a solution to make pvp fair and available for EVERY player : When entering pvp every class has 1 gearsetup which means every mage has same mage-class stats, every rogue has same rogueclass-stats, every warrior has same warriorclass-stats.
Also remove the pets like it was in the beginning and let the games, were ONLY players skill and the connection performance counts, begin! :encouragement:

[Zeus]

Voorg, Arry, Haligali, Conradev, and Instanthumor. The rest, I have fought but this is my verdict after fighting the sorcerers you mentioned. The last two sorcerers I've mentioned are far from maxed.

I don't mind fighting you equal gear, if that's what you want to.

[kiwotsukete]

im a somewhat average geared mage in Deviant Misfits, ive spoken at length with zeus about mage and rogue. ever maxed gear mage will tell you, skill > gear. a mages power lies with Crowd Control.... in PVE situations. btw, incase you missed it, rage and zeus dont very much like eachother... me an spell both make fun of zeus's pink shirts lololololol

in conclusion, mages are mostly based on skill, rogues are mainly based on gear (in terms of crit and damage.) and tanks are mainly based on skill.

why do you think rogue gear is so expensive? cuz rogue is easiest and most dps than the other 3 classes.

[kiwotsukete]

also, I vsed zeus in by far from maxed gear, he geared down in the VS and used maridos since I was using mari. although im pretty sure his ring and pendant are full eyes >.>

[Candylicks]

Everyone is entitled to express their opinions, and instead of saying 'theirs isn't valid' you are better off disagreeing and backing up with evidence. Most of the people clashing are top geared so if mages are now op then yeah you will certainly be hearing it from rogues and wars.

[kiwotsukete]

I wouldnt call mages exactly OP, although mages will always be OP in a clash. in a 1v1 rogue and tank can still destroy a mage if their skilled in fightingmages. although if a mage is full eye imbued with para stacked and nekro... well.... just roll over and die. you arnt killing that decked out of a mage

[Robhawk]

Voorg, Arry, Haligali, Conradev, and Instanthumor. The rest, I have fought but this is my verdict after fighting the sorcerers you mentioned. The last two sorcerers I've mentioned are far from maxed.

I don't mind fighting you equal gear, if that's what you want to.

Everytime the only names that apear are exactly those 5... and what about the other 100.000 mages in this game?
You would win for several reasons and for sure you are more skilled then i am - no doubt and i dont want to take that away from you! Although i would really like to try this... as i said before i lost like 5 to 12 or something like that to bless but imho thats not to bad! ;) You are overall perhaps the best player in this game in terms of gear, knowledge and skill and thats not the point to discuss about, everybody knows this!

Im just tired of all the discussion that involves only the 1% players of the complete playerbase!

[Americabud]

Im not sure if you can call igns out Luke that.. But I agree partly with your point. I myself use plat and have eyes and all those things and even I can tell what separates a good mage from a good rouge is lots of money. Its not a coincidence that rouges are the top played class, leading the ldb in every event. Its because they have an unfair advantage over mages which I'm sure sts will balance out soon with more buffs to come. I've proven time and time again that the stats of two like armoured rouges and mages differ in a way that every single rouge stat will be better than the mages. From armour points to critical, and damage and health. The rouges seem to all of a sudden be in denial that rouges have dominated the game forever. Now that the playing field is even just a little bit( no stat intervention like needing rouge armour points) the rouges protest

[Robhawk]

btw, incase you missed it, rage and zeus dont very much like eachother...


NOOOOO, i diiidnt miss any aspect of the BS that is going on between loyal/pride/karma/horror and magnum. I was part of this from the very beginning incase you missed that! I recently joined enigmatic because im not competetive in pvp with my gear vs players like rage, voorg and so on. So i cant help my team and the team doesnt want me in... on the other hand i want to farm elites to have the new myth gear some time... Then everybody again has the same gear in endgame pvp and just the paras/eyes seperate the maxed out players from the "rest". Honestly i can live with that far better then the huge gap it is today, at least for me.

[kiwotsukete]

I have 0 idea who you are so I obviously missed the fact that you partake in the nab drama of guilds. people cry over this games pvp like they lost their brandnew puppy.

[Robhawk]

I have 0 idea who you are so I obviously missed the fact that you partake in the nab drama of guilds. people cry over this games pvp like they lost their brandnew puppy.

I have 34k tdm kills... so you can read my name at that leaderboard for ages. :hopelessness:

[Ollashed]

* Mages for the win * :O
Rogues and war play ur classes and dont act like u know everyting about mages :))))

Gesendet von meinem LG-P760 mit Tapatalk

[Ramboo]

I love the fact that you say you fight someone same gear but in reality you got like Eye gems + ParaGems vs your opponent that has hardly 1 of each. A true equal same gear match is same gear as long as same Gems. Ridiculous if you use same gear but 10 eyes and 3 paras. So much for your fair match. & To the thread rob, drama between magnum and horror goes way back to a drama someone started. Since then they dont like each other although pride hides behind names like Loyal Eden Horror Karma.

[Robhawk]

I love the fact that you say you fight someone same gear but in reality you got like Eye gems + ParaGems vs your opponent that has hardly 1 of each.

I can tell you that i never had a single EYE gem in any of the items i have used! So i never had a para and an eye gem at the same time! The only para gem i had (i didnt buy it, i got it from the event!) i sadly wasted it putting into kershal and i dont own that kershal anymore. My actual gear has 0 paras and 0 eyes (5 standard mind jewels, 2 weak mind jewels, 3 reinforced normal glacials, 4 grand glacials, 1 normal glacial) and my gear in the past had 1 single para gem in the "weak" kershal and no eye gem, ty!

[kiwotsukete]

meh, I dont partake in whos the best pvper or who has the most pvp kills, its all a drama filled playground for people to cry in. I was in a 3v2 it was me, another mage, and a rogue vs 2 warriors.... they cried that we were ganging and that we were nabs... if sts made it matches based on skill, im sure many of the 30k tdm kill people would drop fast on the LB. most people just farm nabs for pvp kills

[Ramboo]

I can tell you that i never had a single EYE gem in any of the items i have used! So i never had a para and an eye gem at the same time! The only para gem i had (i didnt buy it, i got it from the event!) i sadly wasted it putting into kershal and i dont own that kershal anymore. My actual gear has 0 paras and 0 eyes and my gear in the past had 1 single para gem in the "weak" kershal and no eye gem, ty!

Yes. I didnt even have no para nor eyes as well. But yet i farmed alot of Karma lovely to hear them cry. But a true skilled rogue is Amqk fight him and you will lose sadly. Watched him vs ruth and his friends . It was fun to watch ruthien cry i got it reocrded as well. But overall i guessed sts made para gems so that every charc got equal chance to have one but people abused what it was meant for.

[Kriticality]

I'm sure if someone wanted to fight equal gear parth would let them buy it for him. Obv to expect someone to go and regem or buy another set to vs is preposterous.

[Ramboo]

I'm sure if someone wanted to fight equal gear parth would let them buy it for him. Obv to expect someone to go and regem or buy another set to vs is preposterous.

But the point is your asking them to vs same Gear. Yall only take in consideration the gear what about the gems and stuff. Zeus has like 10 eyes if he bs rob whats the outcome?? Obvious winner imo since rob has 0 eyes ir paras.

[kiwotsukete]

or people can just buy clean sets for a vs .-. if no one has the same gems, and they have the same pet. it is in a sense fair.

[Robhawk]

Yes. I didnt even have no para nor eyes as well. But yet i farmed alot of Karma lovely to hear them cry. But a true skilled rogue is Amqk fight him and you will lose sadly. Watched him vs ruth and his friends . It was fun to watch ruthien cry i got it reocrded as well. But overall i guessed sts made para gems so that every charc got equal chance to have one but people abused what it was meant for.

Believe it or not but i killed amokachi A LOT at tdm 1on1`s. You dont need to ask him because he will lie about it!

Also this thread is not intended to talk about me, my gear my non skill - we have to get BTT! TY !


I'm sure if someone wanted to fight equal gear parth would let them buy it for him. Obv to expect someone to go and regem or buy another set to vs is preposterous.

Sure... i will buy the player with more then 400M gold in stash some more gear! :encouragement: Also thats not the content of this thread... it doesnt belong here! I already gave Zeus all credits he deserves... what you want more?


So please get back to topic when you start answering here !!! I dont want to get this thread closed by mods becvause of dicussion that is offtopic... TY !

[Visiting]

But the point is your asking them to vs same Gear. Yall only take in consideration the gear what about the gems and stuff. Zeus has like 10 eyes if he bs rob whats the outcome?? Obvious winner imo since rob has 0 eyes ir paras.

If you're complaining about a gear disadvantage, the solution is simple: Stop PVPing, stop foruming about how everyone is "better geared but you're better", and go farm until you have the gear/gems to compete.

[Ramboo]

Amokachi was one of the least geared rogue Lol. He get nekro and even without gear he farmed alot of people. Fir example watch a video of road last clash :)

[kiwotsukete]

the main topic is you calling out the maxed geared players who spend 1,000$ or more on this game, or have spent over 1,500 hours farming drops for cash to buy those OP gears .-.

[Robhawk]

the main topic is you calling out the maxed geared players who spend 1,000$ or more on this game, or have spent over 1,500 hours farming drops for cash to buy those OP gears .-.

Dude, seriously... you dont get the point, not evrn close!

Again, i tell you what this thread is all about:

Some of the best geared players (the 1%) talk about buffs or nerfs for all players in this game and this is just wrong - period !!!


Amokachi was one of the least geared rogue Lol. He get nekro and even without gear he farmed alot of people. Fir example watch a video of road last clash :)

Yes you got it right! At that time his and my gear was nearly equal and thats why i could kill him around 7 out of 10 times! It all changed when he clearly outgeared me with an arcane ring and samael while i had a blood ruby and grimm! :encouragement: This also is a prove of gear > skill. Im confident enough to say at lvlcap 41 when i have elo gun or even kershal, myth armor/helmet, arcane ring and lunar all with grand glacials and a samael that no rogue with a blood ruby, a myth pet and without paras/eyes/imbued gear being involved would win a match to 10 vs me! I also can tell you here how to kill any rogue in that example: Charge your shield then charge light, uncharged ice, charged fireball -> rogue is stunned and in trouble and will spawn packs... when i crit enough the fight could be over at that time -> hit samaels AA and when the panic/terrify happens its 100% game over and the skill of the rogue doesnt matter much because there is no real counter to that huge damage output and stun... when samaels terify doesnt apply ( it often fails vs rogues) you have a second try to repeat all points because your shield will be still good. Then you just delay the next fireball stun until the point when packs spawn and you tap all skills, autoattacks that you have. No rogue survives that and as i said there is no real counter for rogues... and thats were the game mechanics, classbalance bites: mage > rogue (at that time)

[Ramboo]

If you're complaining about a gear disadvantage, the solution is simple: Stop PVPing, stop foruming about how everyone is "better geared but you're better", and go farm until you have the gear/gems to compete.

Why would i gain by that. Kill weak people that only got gear but no skill. Useless id be putting them to shame. & No fun doing that.

[kiwotsukete]

I see plenty of people posting on the buffs and nerfs....... you must just be ignoring them

[Ramboo]

Dude, seriously... you dont geeet the point!

Again, i tell you what this thread is all about:

Some of the best geared players (the 1%) talk about buffs or nerfs for all players in this game and this is just wrong - period !!!

Yes. And that 1% Also gets listened to like 99% of the time -.- Imo Not fair and useless. Its suppose to be a community so allow others opinion in it and listen to the rest not just that certain 1%.

[Zeus]

But the point is your asking them to vs same Gear. Yall only take in consideration the gear what about the gems and stuff. Zeus has like 10 eyes if he bs rob whats the outcome?? Obvious winner imo since rob has 0 eyes ir paras.

When you gear down, it involves swapping out the gems in the gear too...

So I end up vsing with very little HP...

Anyways, the idea behind people doing that is that first things must be balanced from top up, as that's the final destination. Then we can take a look at other minor factors.

[Americabud]

Next step, nerf rouge health or armour points. The only class that gets to enjoy high points in every class stat.. Rouges with 5.5k HP, rouges with over 2k armour, rouges with over 900 DMG, rouges with over 40% crit, oh no wait.. Those are the stats of only one rouge.

[Oursizes]

Robhawk, just get a nekro. You won't need skill anymore.

[Robhawk]

When you gear down, it involves swapping out the gems in the gear too...

So I end up vsing with very little HP...

Anyways, the idea behind people doing that is that first things must be balanced from top up, as that's the final destination. Then we can take a look at other minor factors.

That in first place involves the gameplay of 1% playerbase and the 99% are left behind... Even when the 1% maxed out players game is balanced in all aspects doesnt mean it nearly is the same for the next 25% players with good but not best gear! We all know there are so many aspects that even the difference between some lvlcaps change everything!

[Hellgamer]

Voorg, Arry, Haligali, Conradev, and Instanthumor. The rest, I have fought but this is my verdict after fighting the sorcerers you mentioned. The last two sorcerers I've mentioned are far from maxed.

I don't mind fighting you equal gear, if that's what you want to.

LoL hadn't heard of Instanthumor and met him at CoC beta XD. Guess its another way to gain fame :P

[Robhawk]

Robhawk, just get a nekro. You won't need skill anymore.

Thats also not true! When the gear difference is big enough nekro wont save you! I can tell you rogues that will smash my toon even without a pet when i use nekro! Nekro shield will be down in 1 second or perhaps im already dead with 1 shot/combo and my mages shield is history in 2,1 seconds just 0,1 seconds after invulnerability is gone... so i wont last any longer then 3 to 5 seconds. Obviously that scenario takes place after i light/iced fireballed the rogue and she just eat it without the need for a single pack with 5,5k hp, 2k armor and like 50% dodge lol -> gg ;)

[Oursizes]

Thats also not true! When the gear difference is big enough nekro wont save you! I can tell you rogues that will smash my toon even without a pet when i use nekro! Nekro shield will be down in 1 second or perhaps im already dead with 1 shot/combo and my mages shield is history in 2,1 seconds just 0,1 seconds after invulnerability is gone... so i wont last any longer then 3 to 5 seconds. Obviously that scenario takes place after i light/iced fireballed the rogue and she just eat it without the need for a single pack with 5,5k hp, 2k armor and like 50% dodge lol -> gg ;)

You clearly dont know how to pvp then.

[Litheus]

While you guys were discussing about skills<gear, rogues>mages, pets, etc I took the liberty of finding an answer to ur(op) question. As follows -
1. U need to have a forum account to give ur opinion
2. Open a buff/nerf thread from the past and see how many players who gave their opinion were fully stacked with paras n eyes
3. U said the opinions of 1% decided what was good or bad for 99% of players. Well it looks unfair when u say it like that. But 100% of the players don't have a forum account. 5% of them have it. And when someone makes a buff/nerf thread even a smaller % of them bothers to give their opinion. And most of them happen to be well geared.

Now sts buffs and nerfs things in two ways
1. On their own
2. Based on public opinion.

Pls don't say sts does everything for the 1% of the players. They do so because only 1% of them bother to communicate with them through forums.

[Visiting]

Thats also not true! When the gear difference is big enough nekro wont save you! I can tell you rogues that will smash my toon even without a pet when i use nekro! Nekro shield will be down in 1 second or perhaps im already dead with 1 shot/combo and my mages shield is history in 2,1 seconds just 0,1 seconds after invulnerability is gone... so i wont last any longer then 3 to 5 seconds. Obviously that scenario takes place after i light/iced fireballed the rogue and she just eat it without the need for a single pack with 5,5k hp, 2k armor and like 50% dodge lol -> gg ;)

Dodge doesn't help you dodge anything in PVP beside autoattack...Also, any rogue with those kind of stats is bound to have lower crit/dmg than the usual maxed rogue considering you can't max everything as a rogue, you have to pick and choose between what stats you'd like to be OP....

[Americabud]

Dodge doesn't help you dodge anything in PVP beside autoattack...Also, any rogue with those kind of stats is bound to have lower crit/dmg than the usual maxed rogue considering you can't max everything as a rogue, you have to pick and choose between what stats you'd like to be OP....

Any class has to pick which stats they want to be higher than others. Simple fact is rouge is op and needs to be nerfed. 2k armour 40%crit 850dmg 5k health 1k dps. Doesn't sound like picking and choosing

[Ssneakykills]

These threads are kinda boring now we have a similar one in the pvp discussion section already

[yubaraj]

I have a doubt aimed shot is bugged too. Nerf it plz. Sorry may be I am off topic here.

Idk how many percentage of players read or write in forum or even bother to look at it. I know for sure there are only very few who bother to post in forum.

To the main topic of class balance. I know rogues are OP in most aspect of this game. Is that a class balance?

Mages got the heal buff and some rogues are crying because mages are replacing rogue in clash now because of mage's AOE skill. Isn't that too selfish and arrogant that they wants to be better than mage in clash too. BTW can mage one shot rogue whose health is around 50% and many pvp players know the outcome of viceversa. Shield is better now but it doesn't give extra 100% health. Mages are still weaker than rogue in too many aspect: dmg output, armor, crit. frost is skill bugged. Mages new health buff gives around 80% (not 150%). Rogues health pack gives 90%.

As other players suggested, limiting a same class in team match may resolve this issue.

Thank you STS for looking at PVP aspect too.

[Americabud]

I'm confused are rouges really acting like their class is not waaay off balanced from the other two classes. Well then it might totally blindside you when game develops more and rouges no longer dominate every fighting aspect of the game

[kiwotsukete]

hmmm alot of people hating on rogues... and the rogue stats... yet a rogue gets 10% damage nerf in pvp so you cant base its damage on outside dmg. if a rogue is 800 dex dmg, they lose 80 damage, so they are actually 720 dex dmg in pvp... what more do you want?? they have to manually pick up their med packs while tanks can pull them away from the packs... a mage can stun them so they cant get their packs... razor doesnt reduce damage like a mages shield does or a tanks jug AND heal does.... in comparison, a rogues ability to crit is a trade off for having to work harder to heal and having no damage reduction that I can think of...

[Robhawk]

These threads are kinda boring now we have a similar one in the pvp discussion section already

No! This thread here should have been about the fact that 1% of players want to balance the game for the 100% playerbase! It all got offtopic after some posts, like it allways is...


You clearly dont know how to pvp then.

Thats how it has to be! :hopelessness:

[Litheus]

No! This thread here should have been about the fact that 1% of players want to balance the game for the 100% playerbase! It all got offtopic after some posts, like it allways is...

I explained why it is that way.
And there's a difference between "want" n "have"

[Zeus]

hmmm alot of people hating on rogues... and the rogue stats... yet a rogue gets 10% damage nerf in pvp so you cant base its damage on outside dmg. if a rogue is 800 dex dmg, they lose 80 damage, so they are actually 720 dex dmg in pvp... what more do you want?? they have to manually pick up their med packs while tanks can pull them away from the packs... a mage can stun them so they cant get their packs... razor doesnt reduce damage like a mages shield does or a tanks jug AND heal does.... in comparison, a rogues ability to crit is a trade off for having to work harder to heal and having no damage reduction that I can think of...

They actually lose more because that 10% damage also renders our pet damage percent bonus null. So, when I enter PvP, I end up losing over 200 damage & then I have to fight sorcerers with these heal buffs, various shield buffs, whilst they have over 1000 damage? That big of a gap puts aim and lightning on similar levels when factoring when debuffs.

[CheifR]

If both the people vsing are maxed than they're balanced with eachother right? So if he's using them as an example it'd still be valid since they aren't basing it off gear; they'd be saying equal gear= equal chance of winning which applies at every level and every set of gear. I've hear alot from friends (and I'm beginning to agree) is the main people whining about their favorite class needing a buff or others needing a nerf may just have had bad experiences themselves. Sorry I'm not very good at spelling what I mean out but hey I tried :)

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

or people can just buy clean sets for a vs .-. if no one has the same gems, and they have the same pet. it is in a sense fair.

Agreed. However, are people willing to do that?

[CheifR]

hmmm alot of people hating on rogues... and the rogue stats... yet a rogue gets 10% damage nerf in pvp so you cant base its damage on outside dmg. if a rogue is 800 dex dmg, they lose 80 damage, so they are actually 720 dex dmg in pvp... what more do you want?? they have to manually pick up their med packs while tanks can pull them away from the packs... a mage can stun them so they cant get their packs... razor doesnt reduce damage like a mages shield does or a tanks jug AND heal does.... in comparison, a rogues ability to crit is a trade off for having to work harder to heal and having no damage reduction that I can think of...
+1000 with the extra effort we have to put in because of this AND with our gear being even more expensive what reason do they have to complain?

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

+1000 with the extra effort we have to put in because of this AND with our gear being even more expensive what reason do they have to complain?

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

On top of this, players are claiming that sorcerers are balanced? How is it balanced if you do not need a certain class in a clash? That's by far the definition of imbalance and it's the exact thing that sorcerers and warriors write novels about on forums when they aren't accepted to rogue parties in PvE. They are both issues that need to be handled.

[Oezheasate]

Who cares about mages and rogues? Fix the Warriors first lol

[CheifR]

Any class has to pick which stats they want to be higher than others. Simple fact is rouge is op and needs to be nerfed. 2k armour 40%crit 850dmg 5k health 1k dps. Doesn't sound like picking and choosing
As zeus said we already are being said to not be needed in clashes and your idea is to nerf us directly after your buff?

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Litheus]

On top of this, players are claiming that sorcerers are balanced? How is it balanced if you do not need a certain class in a clash? That's by far the definition of imbalance and it's the exact thing that sorcerers and warriors write novels about on forums when they aren't accepted to rogue parties in PvE. They are both issues that need to be handled.

Pve is actually unbalanced
Pvp is unbalanced because of gems

[Oursizes]

hmmm alot of people hating on rogues... and the rogue stats... yet a rogue gets 10% damage nerf in pvp so you cant base its damage on outside dmg. if a rogue is 800 dex dmg, they lose 80 damage, so they are actually 720 dex dmg in pvp... what more do you want?? they have to manually pick up their med packs while tanks can pull them away from the packs... a mage can stun them so they cant get their packs... razor doesnt reduce damage like a mages shield does or a tanks jug AND heal does.... in comparison, a rogues ability to crit is a trade off for having to work harder to heal and having no damage reduction that I can think of...

Lets not forget we dont get the bonus damage% of happiness from pet either.

[Litheus]

As zeus said we already are being said to not be needed in clashes and your idea is to nerf us directly after your buff?

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

Zeus usually clashes with mages with 50% crit n 1k dmg who can one combo rogues just like that.
And this is the thing about which Rob made his thread for.
It is normal for rogues who specializes in one target to get discarded in a clash

[Tatman]

They actually lose more because that 10% damage also renders our pet damage percent bonus null. So, when I enter PvP, I end up losing over 200 damage & then I have to fight sorcerers with these heal buffs, various shield buffs, whilst they have over 1000 damage? That big of a gap puts aim and lightning on similar levels when factoring when debuffs.
Actually, in my experience, as limited as it is, lightning hits harder than aimed at the moment.

[Kingofninjas]

Pve is actually unbalanced
Pvp is unbalanced because of gems

PvP is unbalanced because mages have virtually a permanent 40% damage reduction on them, coupled with 2 second invulnerability both from themselves and from each of the tanks on their team. Now they have a very powerful heal in addition to the tanks heal. I have 5k hp and 2.1k armor as a rogue and yet I find myself 1 comboed (fire light ice) by mages or dropped close enough for one of the million nekros on the field to finish me with an AA. I have to waste a skill slot (and 3 skill points) if I want stun immunity in between nekro shield in the form of razor, which has absolutely no other use apart from the aforementioned. Half the time my own packs are useless to me because I can't survive long enough to reach them after they are casted.

Tanks find their juggernaut being broken not only by rogues, but also by mages who don't have dot. IMO, tanks should be given a blanket *1.3 armor boost in PvP or being back the elon bulwark that put a formidable curse upon enemies. This is the imbalance in PvP.

[CheifR]

Zeus usually clashes with mages with 50% crit n 1k dmg who can one combo rogues just like that.
And this is the thing about which Rob made his thread for.
It is normal for rogues who specializes in one target to get discarded in a clash
If you're basing your opinion off of someone with as equal gear as yours I just don't see how that can be counted as any less accurate no matter how wealthy you are or how good your stats may be. It'd be the same as if you wereto do tests with similar gear as eachother that may just not be as strong/expensive. My guess is people are basing their opinions too much on their personal experiences with people STRONGER than them/ more skilled

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Mylast]

As zeus said we already are being said to not be needed in clashes and your idea is to nerf us directly after your buff?

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk
Whats there to nerf? Are people forgettin about damage debuff of rogue?

All classes got buffs except rogues. And we dont complain. You re greedy. Mages were too squishy, and now with buffs, a skilled person can do amazing job. Maybe not in vs, but in wars will.

Maybe you playin it wrong, Rob.

[Litheus]

PvP is unbalanced because mages have virtually a permanent 40% damage reduction on them, coupled with 2 second invulnerability both from themselves and from each of the tanks on their team. Now they have a very powerful heal in addition to the tanks heal. I have 5k hp and 2.1k armor as a rogue and yet I find myself 1 comboed (fire light ice) by mages or dropped close enough for one of the million nekros on the field to finish me with an AA. I have to waste a skill slot (and 3 skill points) if I want stun immunity in between nekro shield in the form of razor, which has absolutely no other use apart from the aforementioned. Half the time my own packs are useless to me because I can't survive long enough to reach them after they are casted.

Tanks find their juggernaut being broken not only by rogues, but also by mages who don't have dot. IMO, tanks should be given a blanket *1.3 armor boost in PvP or being back the elon bulwark that put a formidable curse upon enemies. This is the imbalance in PvP.

Dude of course u will feel pvp to be unbalanced if u fight against a team with warriors, necros, and mages with a full rogue team
If u are equally geared even u will have 40% dmg reduction almost all the time, even u will get 2 sec invulnerability from tanks heal, even u will get healed by mages heal in ur team.

[Zeus]

Dude of course u will feel pvp to be unbalanced if u fight against a team with warriors, necros, and mages with a full rogue team
If u are equally geared even u will have 40% dmg reduction almost all the time, even u will get 2 sec invulnerability from tanks heal, even u will get healed by mages heal in ur team.

He's fighting with a balanced team comprised of 2 tanks and 2 mages, 1 rogue or 2 rogues and 1 Mage. What you say above is an unbalanced team and stacking of classes (2 tanks and 3 mages). This goes to show that sorcerers overtake class roles that they should not be overtaking in endgame. How messed up is that? -.-

[Litheus]

If you're basing your opinion off of someone with as equal gear as yours I just don't see how that can be counted as any less accurate no matter how wealthy you are or how good your stats may be. It'd be the same as if you wereto do tests with similar gear as eachother that may just not be as strong/expensive. My guess is people are basing their opinions too much on their personal experiences with people STRONGER than them/ more skilled

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

It's not about gear or skill. It's about gem. Sts released a gem "eye of syrillex" in last year's winter event. It allowed a very selected few mages to multiclass I.e. act as rogues and mages. Most of the time Zeus is with those selected few mages. The general population of the mage are not op but the general population of the rogues are. Zeus is on a different level than the rest of us.

[Kingofninjas]

Dude of course u will feel pvp to be unbalanced if u fight against a team with warriors, necros, and mages with a full rogue team
If u are equally geared even u will have 40% dmg reduction almost all the time, even u will get 2 sec invulnerability from tanks heal, even u will get healed by mages heal in ur team.

If I have 40% dmg reduction for most of the battle, except a 5 second window which is all a dps needs to kill me, mages can get 80% dmg reduction for part of the battle and 40% dmg reduction for the entire battle, leaving no window to kill them.

[Litheus]

He's fighting with a balanced team comprised of 2 tanks and 2 mages, 1 rogue or 2 rogues and 1 Mage. What you say above is an unbalanced team and stacking of classes (2 tanks and 3 mages). This goes to show that sorcerers overtake class roles that they should not be overtaking in endgame. How messed up is that? -.-

I just said that even a rogue gets 40% dmg reduction, heal from warriors, heal from mage in his team....his argument was not a valid one to why pvp is not balanced

[CheifR]

It's not about gear or skill. It's about gem. Sts released a gem "eye of syrillex" in last year's winter event. It allowed a very selected few mages to multiclass I.e. act as rogues and mages. Most of the time Zeus is with those selected few mages. The general population of the mage are not op but the general population of the rogues are. Zeus is on a different level than the rest of us.
If that were to be the case than their little point in this thread! In that case it wouldn't be that each class is just too unbalanced; because the only solution to the para/eye problem would be to keep releasing gear until the are all dried up unless they choose to straight up delete them from our inventories. It'd still not make any of the "OP" people's opinions on PvP any less important. lol (no deleting them was not a serious suggestion.)

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Oursizes]

If I have 40% dmg reduction for most of the battle, except a 5 second window which is all a dps needs to kill me, mages can get 80% dmg reduction for part of the battle and 40% dmg reduction for the entire battle, leaving no window to kill them.

And lets not forget their heal stacked with a warrior heal. Since a good mage will generally have a shield constantly, it will take a few combos(depending if crits or not) to drop them since their health will go up as soon as it goes down.

[Litheus]

If I have 40% dmg reduction for most of the battle, except a 5 second window which is all a dps needs to kill me, mages can get 80% dmg reduction for part of the battle and 40% dmg reduction for the entire battle, leaving no window to kill them.

How does a mage get 80% dmg reduction in a battle. That op'ness is because of a pet. I can imagine it is hard being a rogue go against more than one mage in a clash. But they r not that op. Remove necro n its not that way. It's the necro problem

[CheifR]

How does a mage get 80% dmg reduction in a battle. That op'ness is because of a pet. I can imagine it is hard being a rogue go against more than one mage in a clash. But they r not that op. Remove necro n its not that way. It's the necro problem
Without necro rogues have to waste a skill on razor where as mages have it built in on top of the damage reduction with a somewhat recently reduced cd. It's like we need him but at the same time we dont :/

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Litheus]

If that were to be the case than their little point in this thread! In that case it wouldn't be that each class is just too unbalanced; because the only solution to the para/eye problem would be to keep releasing gear until the are all dried up unless they choose to straight up delete them from our inventories. It'd still not make any of the "OP" people's opinions on PvP any less important. lol (no deleting them was not a serious suggestion.)

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

Have u ever played against a mage with 50% crit. If u played then u will know why it is not okay to rate the general population of mages as op.

[Litheus]

Without necro rogues have to waste a skill on razor where as mages have it built in on top of the damage reduction with a somewhat recently reduced cd. It's like we need him but at the same time we dont :/

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

Without necro normal top geared mages are nothing

[CheifR]

Have u ever played against a mage with 50% crit. If u played then u will know why it is not okay to rate the general population of mages as op.
Lol that isn't at all what I'm saying. Im saying don't fix what isn't broken and the OP feels like mages are asking for unlimited buffs. Btw your second response that I can't quote from mobile is implying that you speak for all and every mage that'd be considered "op". gear>skill

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[kiwotsukete]

or sts can just make eyes and paras obtainable again.... ive seen full eye and 3 para mages with frost gun, ring, pendant, and nekro... I cried. I actually logged out of the game and sat outside realizing there is 0 chance of me gettingthat type of gear without 20m cash In the stash.... have you guys even seen a mage with full eye imbued with afrost gun para 2 eye running 3 eye ring and planar pendant?? he also claimed to have a full eye mythic belt..... this mage legit (no lix) had 53% crit with 1.6k armor, and slapping on 960 int damage with 5.8k hp..... how can u even fight that? its simply not possible.... same goes with rogue and tanks... some people are just soooooo over geared we cant touch them... I fear the day I enter pvp and see someone like that.... not including zeus when we vsed since the nab took it easy on me and still farmed me .-. I for one am will to drop a grand on this game just to be able to attempt to hold my own against these types of toons.

[Titanfall]

The forums this week have been filled with threads that have made my brain hurt :/

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

[Americabud]

Still unbelievable that rouges can post that mages should be nerfed when the rouge class dominates every fighting aspect of the game (FACT) rouges hopefully have some armour nerfs coming there way. I hope sts does not take a few rouges that feel the class with the least amount of OVERALL stats are no longer the most unfavorable class and might take there place in clashes because of a REAL heal update. Sts is a company they'll get the numbers right one day and in the end rouges may not be happy with a truly balanced game because as of now the game is still balanced in rouges favor. Plain and clear, everyone knows that.

[Kingofninjas]

It's quite apparent from what he says that litheus has no clue about how end game maxed out clashes are being played. I am speaking from experience that it is very hard to one combo a mage with 5.7-5.8k health even when they have no shield, a situation in which a good mage will never be in. When they have one, sometimes two shields up, it is impossible to one combo, giving them reign to run almost free, taking down rogues as soon as their nekro shield drops.

[warriorromio]

I just have to say something that nobody ever said clear enough until now!

What i absolutly DONT LIKE in all that discussion from rogues, like Zeus and other maxed out toons, is the fact that the only mages that count in your world are a haaaaandfuullll mages with maxed out gear, with paras and eyes only! I mean we have voorg, rage, arry, tonga, seven beeing recognized maxed out in every aspect! If you, Zeus, had to make a list of mages with maxed out, best possbile gear -> how many in total? 10? or perhaps 20? So these 10 or 20 mages out of all mages in game are the only ones representative? Dont get me wrong but this so narrow minded!

All those discussion regarding what is wrong, what is right, what is to OP and so on IN EVERY THREAD is mostly done by 1% maxed geared players!

THATS NOT REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE 99% OF AL-PLAYERBASE!

THere aqre a lot of players that recognize me as a no skill mage, a nab... I said it before i could kill many of the best rogues when gears were nearly equal and my toon is undergeared from day 1 until now... so does this make me a nab? While many think yes, i really dont think so! I played a lot with the perhaps best rogue that ever played this game, the old predator. Im sure he will lol a lot when you ask him if iam nab! Honestly give me voorgs or arrys gear and i could kill rogues that still think they could kill me naked!

Just a small look into the future:

After l46 myth set will be common to most players there will be again 20 players out of complete playerbase, like arry, zeus, voorg, tonga, rage and some more that will be able to afford all item slots with paras and eyes.... and those players again will be considered as the best tof the best which is imho just not the case!
THESE PLAYERS ARE THE 0,5%> THAT CAN AFFORD THE BEST POSSBILE GEARSETUP AND THAT IS WHAT SEPERATES THEM IN FIRST PLACE! That doesnt mean they are perhaps also the most skilled players, at least some of them.

Also i have to say Shiny is imho a great mage, he has lots of knowledge and skill and also his gear is very good but as far as i can remember he is not paras/eyes only.... and the difference when the one mage has 35% crit and the other one has 52% crit is HUGE even when the rest of the stats is the same. The most important thing for a mage is to have as much crit as possible -> welcome to the word of EYE gems which are like 2.5M today.

edit: I also have a solution to make pvp fair and available for EVERY player : When entering pvp every class has 1 gearsetup which means every mage has same mage-class stats, every rogue has same rogueclass-stats, every warrior has same warriorclass-stats.
Also remove the pets like it was in the beginning and let the games, were ONLY players skill and the connection performance counts, begin! :encouragement:
First of all bro m a warrior and we cant still face the rouges m a decent tank but hard to kill a lil bit undergeared rouges
Cause they are the class are op in 1vs1 to all class
And another thing is that the new mythic sets will not be tradeable for shure
90% of paras are used on level 41 gears ..
So dont worry bout that even top player can get para cause new sets will not be tradeable
And for the eyes ....
If you use a lil bit of your mind the new jewel system will give you similer stat to them if you want i know less but nearly close to them ..
And none of them cant get full eyes cause most of the twinks already bout lots of eyes cause they are more effective at twink level...
Then tell me 4 slots are for mythic sets then where will they put paras...in wepon and only in belts...
Its not the reason you are saying that they will get all eyes or some other op gems....
classes need balance thats the only good point you put..here other wise its all ok

[Kingofninjas]

I just said that even a rogue gets 40% dmg reduction, heal from warriors, heal from mage in his team....his argument was not a valid one to why pvp is not balanced

Rogues do not always have 40% dmg reduction. There is a 5 second window where they are vulnerable, which is more than enough time for rogues to be dropped. Mages on the other hand suffer from no such invulnerability. Mages were preferred over rogues in clashes even before this, now rogues will be swapped as soon as a mage is free, regardless of skill. Gear will be the only factor that matters.

[Litheus]

Lol that isn't at all what I'm saying. Im saying don't fix what isn't broken and the OP feels like mages are asking for unlimited buffs. Btw your second response that I can't quote from mobile is implying that you speak for all and every mage that'd be considered "op". gear>skill

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

Look I will be clear to u.
- all classes are balanced in pvp. Even if they are not its neglegible
- there are high geared mages, high geared rogues, high geared warriors.
- but u will find some mages that are beyond high geared because eye gems benefitted them more than any other class. Simply call them as elite geared mages
-what Rob said is that he didn't want the mages to be labelled as op by top geared rogues based on the strength of the elite mages
- and I agree with him only this much

[kiwotsukete]

Still unbelievable that rouges can post that mages should be nerfed when the rouge class dominates every fighting aspect of the game (FACT) rouges hopefully have some armour nerfs coming there way. I hope sts does not take a few rouges that feel the class with the least amount of OVERALL stats are no longer the most unfavorable class and might take there place in clashes because of a REAL heal update. Sts is a company they'll get the numbers right one day and in the end rouges may not be happy with a truly balanced game because as of now the game is still balanced in rouges favor. Plain and clear, everyone knows that.

mage can regen mana, rogue cant.
mage can reduce damage, rogue cant.
mage can have same amout of crit.
mage can run nekro and have shield entire time.
mage can stun, slow, and curse.
mage has full damage in pvp, rogue doesnt.
rogues mana supply is tiny.
rogues cant auto heal, have to run to packs.

that, is the difference in mages and rogues.......

STS honestly should simply make a set pvp zone, that gives you armor, a build, and a pet. would make everyone on equal playing field.

sts should gather all the PVP people who actually study pvp every day, and have them say whats good and bad.

sts should open voting booths so we as players can ALL decide what happens in OUR game.

[warriorromio]

And for the gems and eyes thing whenever sts launch that kind of gems people farm them sts didnt say that to sell them to op players ..
Why we guys sell them to them then..
I mean we sell it to merchers who stock them..
And wait till price will go up ....
And that time we cant afford themm..
I mean its our own mistake ..
To sell best stuffs to op players for gold...
And they spend real life money so they deserve to be op then you me or other non plat users...
I mean they are spending there real life money .
All the staff of sts ..
Get paid by there hard earned money ..
And for you i just can say that a nub can get better gears in just a month or two the locked and other farming materials giving good valuse now and most of the arcanes are in reach of a hardcore farmer
If you cant farm that much then dont say anything.....
Bout the platers
Who are reason for this game still running from that much years...
They deser to be a lil bit best then us ..
If they spend real life cash and only can get equilent gear to us then they stop buying plats and this game will stop forever...
Do you really want this

[Litheus]

It's quite apparent from what he says that litheus has no clue about how end game maxed out clashes are being played. I am speaking from experience that it is very hard to one combo a mage with 5.7-5.8k health even when they have no shield, a situation in which a good mage will never be in. When they have one, sometimes two shields up, it is impossible to one combo, giving them reign to run almost free, taking down rogues as soon as their nekro shield drops.

Well I don't play a rogue so I don't know how hard it is to clash with one but I am sure u r making it sound too hard to play with. I have seen videos of clashes taken by a rogue after the necro buff. Their situation was not as bad as u. From what u say I have no clue on how to control a rogue

[Litheus]

And for the gems and eyes thing whenever sts launch that kind of gems people farm them sts didnt say that to sell them to op players ..
Why we guys sell them to them then..
I mean we sell it to merchers who stock them..
And wait till price will go up ....
And that time we cant afford themm..
I mean its our own mistake ..
To sell best stuffs to op players for gold...
And they spend real life money so they deserve to be op then you me or other non plat users...
I mean they are spending there real life money .
All the staff of sts ..
Get paid by there hard earned money ..
And for you i just can say that a nub can get better gears in just a month or two the locked and other farming materials giving good valuse now and most of the arcanes are in reach of a hardcore farmer
If you cant farm that much then dont say anything.....
Bout the platers
Who are reason for this game still running from that much years...
They deser to be a lil bit best then us ..
If they spend real life cash and only can get equilent gear to us then they stop buying plats and this game will stop forever...
Do you really want this

Yeah they deserve to be stronger than non plat spenders quicker. But unbalance is a different issue

[Americabud]

mage can regen mana, rogue cant.
mage can reduce damage, rogue cant.
mage can have same amout of crit.
mage can run nekro and have shield entire time.
mage can stun, slow, and curse.
mage has full damage in pvp, rogue doesnt.
rogues mana supply is tiny.
rogues cant auto heal, have to run to packs.

that, is the difference in mages and rogues.......

STS honestly should simply make a set pvp zone, that gives you armor, a build, and a pet. would make everyone on equal playing field.

sts should gather all the PVP people who actually study pvp every day, and have them say whats good and bad.

sts should open voting booths so we as players can ALL decide what happens in OUR game.

Mage can regen mana, true.
Mage can reduce DMG, (via shield for limited time while rouge has permanent 1000 armour points more than mage)
Mage can have the same amount of crit( rouges can't have 45% crit, they DO have it, without spending 20m on 10 eyes)
Mage can have nekro and run shield the entire time(you already mentioned the shield, as for nekro its just as available to rouges as mage anyone can use nekro shield)
Mage can stun, slow, and curse(mage is not the only class that can do these things)
Mage has full damage in PvP rouge doesn't( and that's because rouges are unfairly over powered, strongest in game obviously need more nerfs)
Rouges mana supply is tiny
Rouges can't auto heal have to run to packs(mages can't autoheal either only sns lol)

That's the difference between mages and rouges? IMO the difference between mages and rouges are these average stats

Warrior
8k health
500 damage
20% crit
2.5k armour

Mage
5k health
800 damage
25%crit
1500 armour

Rouge
5k health
800 damage
45%crit
2000 armour

Those are the differences

[kiwotsukete]

Mage can regen mana, true.
Mage can reduce DMG, (via shield for limited time while rouge has permanent 1000 armour points more than mage)
Mage can have the same amount of crit( rouges can't have 45% crit, they DO have it, without spending 20m on 10 eyes)
Mage can have nekro and run shield the entire time(you already mentioned the shield, as for nekro its just as available to rouges as mage anyone can use nekro shield)
Mage can stun, slow, and curse(mage is not the only class that can do these things)
Mage has full damage in PvP rouge doesn't( and that's because rouges are unfairly over powered, strongest in game obviously need more nerfs)
Rouges mana supply is tiny
Rouges can't auto heal have to run to packs(mages can't autoheal either only sns lol)

That's the difference between mages and rouges? IMO the difference between mages and rouges are these average stats

Warrior
8k health
500 damage
20% crit
2.5k armour

Mage
5k health
800 damage
25%crit
1500 armour

Rouge
5k health
800 damage
45%crit
2000 armour

Those are the differences

my mage has 35% crit no eyes... and my mage has 1.6k armor... thats without even running top gear...

rogues have less damage than what you say(nerfed in pvp)
rogues have to spend easily 20m to get 45% crit while keeping 5k hp and 2k armor..

mages can auto heal using their heal skill, they dont have to run for packs.

[Litheus]

Kingofninjas can't control a rogue? You obviously don't play at endgame PVP, or else you'd know that this guy, Kingofninjas, is one of the best/most knowledgable rogues there is up there, even before he got all fancy and geared, he could hold his own in VS/Clashes better than most maxed rogues at the time.

I have never seen him in pvp when I used to play. Maybe time difference. Anyone who has never seen him before play will think the same as me by looking at how he speaks.

[Americabud]

my mage has 35% crit no eyes... and my mage has 1.6k armor... thats without even running top gear...

rogues have less damage than what you say(nerfed in pvp)
rogues have to spend easily 20m to get 45% crit while keeping 5k hp and 2k armor..

mages can auto heal using their heal skill, they dont have to run for packs.

True that, true also that a mage cannot begin to output damage like a rouge the way the game is balanced towards them for now. Damage x crit = true damage. The facts are that rouges usually have x1.5-2.5 crit than any mage their level. Rouges also have +1k armour over mages but same amount of health. If you put 2 and 2 together you'd realize mage only outputs the second most DMG behind rouges, how can they damage someone with 2.5k armour? They don't, they hit 100, 20, 80, 200, giving rouges plenty of time to use they're packs as needed if needed at all. Mage on the other hand with 1.5k armour maxed is getting hit by the class with the most damage output in the game and he's citing 4000 through the mages 1500 armour ..

[Zeus]

True that, true also that a mage cannot begin to output damage like a rouge the way the game is balanced towards them for now. Damage x crit = true damage. The facts are that rouges usually have x1.5-2.5 crit than any mage their level. Rouges also have +1k armour over mages but same amount of health. If you put 2 and 2 together you'd realize mage only outputs the second most DMG behind rouges, how can they damage someone with 2.5k armour? They don't, they hit 100, 20, 80, 200, giving rouges plenty of time to use they're packs as needed if needed at all. Mage on the other hand with 1.5k armour maxed is getting hit by the class with the most damage output in the game and he's citing 4000 through the mages 1500 armour ..

I have 1980 armor and 46% crit last I checked, and 5K HP. An equivalent sorcerer has 5.7K, 1500ish armor and 40-55% crit depending on how many eye gems the sorcerer has. Where are you pulling these statistics from? Hyperbole should not be used to help favor your argument.

I've fought against you and have had to tell you what to do in a fight. I do not mean this as an offense, but you truly do lack the knowledge of a sorcerer on the level of Arrypotta, Voorg, Instant, Con, etc. If you'd like, I can forward you the videos showing you what exactly you do wrong in each fight & compare my stats against yours.

[Americabud]

I have 1980 armor and 46% crit last I checked, and 5K HP. An equivalent sorcerer has 5.7K, 1500ish armor and 40-55% crit depending on how many eye gems the sorcerer has. Where are you pulling these statistics from? Hyperbole should not be used to help favor your argument.

I've fought against you and have had to tell you what to do in a fight. I do not mean this as an offense, but you truly do lack the knowledge of a sorcerer on the level of Arrypotta, Voorg, Instant, Con, etc. If you'd like, I can forward you the videos showing you what exactly you do wrong in each fight & compare my stats against yours.
Im pretty sure I'm not lacking anything, where are you getting your stats from the same four mages you name over and over? In reality everyone in the game knows rouge crit is x1.5-2.5 greater than any mage. +significant armour and why am I arguing this point while its a known fact that the game is and always has been balanced to favour rouge in every fighting aspect of the game. Its just laughable that rouges can deny this common logic thats why they got a DMG nerf in the first place, that's why mages got buff in the first place. Because like i said before sts is a company they will get the numbers right regardless of a few rouges on forum with something to lose. Rouges top ldrb every single event pfff gg

[kiwotsukete]

Im pretty sure I'm not lacking anything, where are you getting your stats from the same four mages you name over and over? In reality everyone in the game knows rouge crit is x1.5-2.5 greater than any mage. +significant armour and why am I arguing this point while its a known fact that the game is and always has been balanced to favour rouge in every fighting aspect of the game. Its just laughable that rouges can deny this common logic thats why they got a DMG nerf in the first place, that's why mages got buff in the first place. Because like i said before sts is a company they will get the numbers right regardless of a few rouges on forum with something to lose. Rouges top ldrb every single event pfff gg

dude, im a mage, im on the side of rogues on this lol. I have a rogue, and mages are way better in pvp AND pve... mages can stun mobs like crazy, and even block mobs from moving when using clock...

rogues dont get stuns.

also, looo at how much zeus has in armor cash wise? tell me one person that can afford that without playing as long as he has or drops 3 grand on this game...

also, mages do get on the lb lol. so do warriors.

[Americabud]

Sts hopefully disregard the rouges that are not welcome to the idea of a level playing field. It requires rouge to put actual skill into the game. If a rouge is better replaced just because a mage has a heal update those rouges should work on there skills. Health,armour,crit,dodge,damage in these stats which one does the mage have more points than the warrior or rouge in. MANA. So avg mage>>strongest rouge at this point?

[kiwotsukete]

actually mage has more mana, generally more hp than a rogue, more crit than a warrior, more AoE than any other class, more stuns than any class, more DoT than anyother class.

[Americabud]

dude, im a mage, im on the side of rogues on this lol. I have a rogue, and mages are way better in pvp AND pve... mages can stun mobs like crazy, and even block mobs from moving when using clock...

rogues dont get stuns.

also, looo at how much zeus has in armor cash wise? tell me one person that can afford that without playing as long as he has or drops 3 grand on this game...

also, mages do get on the lb lol. so do warriors.

Of course they get on leader board. Go in game click ldrb for ursoth check "overall" see who winning. Every event rouges wins by a ton of points more than mage or warrior EVERY TIME.. Nice that you have rouge and mage and All that side with them yada yada that's nice but I'm a mage... Once again ty sts for mage heal buff and starting to get the game back on track from the rouge dominate game that its been

[Americabud]

actually mage has more mana, generally more hp than a rogue, more crit than a warrior, more AoE than any other class, more stuns than any class, more DoT than anyother class.

Are you answering the question which stat does the mage have more of than the rouge and warr classes? Mana the only one? Just putting 2 and 2 together

[kiwotsukete]

and rogue generally only has more crit than any other class, and warrior has more hp and armor than any other class.... what your point? I just listed many things a mage has that other classes dont and you want to deny them? LOL

[Americabud]

Health(warrior dominant)
Armour(warrior dominant)
Critical(rouge dominant)
Dodge (rouge dominant)
Mages are left with damamge and mana? We are left with DMG but are not the biggest hitters in the game because rouge crits makes them class with most DMG output... Leaving us with mana. Ty again sts for mage heal buff a step in the right direction

[kiwotsukete]

mages can have more crit, rogue has aimed shot which adds to it.

also, your forgeting everything I literally said mages have. if you will not take my view of this seriously, and refuse to acknowledge my posts, then your entire argument is invalid.

as I said before, mages have DoT, AoE, and More stuns than any other class in the game. if you deny that, then you dont even understand the mage class.

[Americabud]

mages can have more crit, rogue has aimed shot which adds to it.

also, your forgeting everything I literally said mages have. if you will not take my view of this seriously, and refuse to acknowledge my posts, then your entire argument is invalid.

as I said before, mages have DoT, AoE, and More stuns than any other class in the game. if you deny that, then you dont even understand the mage class.

Im stating facts here go refer to my earlier comments so you can grasp what I say about putting 2 and 2 together. Other than that nothing about what I've stated is "invalid" it counts trust me. They will read it

[Visiting]

Health(warrior dominant)
Armour(warrior dominant)
Critical(rouge dominant)
Dodge (rouge dominant)
Mages are left with damamge and mana? We are left with DMG but are not the biggest hitters in the game because rouge crits makes them class with most DMG output... Leaving us with mana. Ty again sts for mage heal buff a step in the right direction

Whoopee! Dodge OP 2015! :D

[yubaraj]

Whoopee! Dodge OP 2015! :D

Oh dodge doesn't help in pvp. I am so noob.

Let me ask you 1 thing.

Is mage able to combo attack skill one after another without waiting for CD like rogue?

[Alejandros]

Why dnt we all stop complaining bcuz of a little heal boost on mages heal? Is not like it gives then the ability to stun or make them deal over 4k dmg on 1skill shot only right?

[Kingofninjas]

Well I don't play a rogue so I don't know how hard it is to clash with one but I am sure u r making it sound too hard to play with. I have seen videos of clashes taken by a rogue after the necro buff. Their situation was not as bad as u. From what u say I have no clue on how to control a rogue

Whether I know how to control a rogue or not is not what is being questioned here. The fact is that even when mages have no shield up and I get a crit aimed shot, my combo is still unlikely to kill one with 5.7k hp, which is the norm at my gear level. Any mage who knows how to play will never be caught with no shield up in a 5 vs 5 clash with 2 nekros or more per team. That's an automatic 40% dmg reduction bonus, 80% when nekro and shield overlap, making it impossible to kill a mage 1 combo. Mages, on the other hand, can often kill me (5k hp 2.1k armor) with a combo of fire, ice and lightning. Crit lighting and fireball alone can bring me close enough to death that any attack, even from a lvl 46 arcane pet, will leave me dead. Don't take my word for it. Asking you to do so would be unreasonable. Take part in a clash, ideally as a rogue if u have one (lvl 46 at least 2 nekro and even gear), where both teams have the same number of tanks, but one team has more mages than the other and see how many clashes the team with more rogues wins. It's possible but very unlikely to happen. I have played enough clashes against one of the best mages in game (voorg) to know that stacking mages is very difficult to counter by stacking rogues.

@americabud obviously rogues will be at the top of event lb as they are single target and hence far faster than mages at killing bosses. Also as Zeus pointed out, your numbers on stats are way off, both for rogue and mage. If I were to maintain 2k armor 5k hp and 45 crit, I would need 8 eye gems, which is 16-18m right there. Mages have closer to 6k hp and often more crit than rogues. If you think rogues are overpowered in clashes, you are doing something wrong as a mage.

[Zeus]

Why dnt we all stop complaining bcuz of a little heal boost on mages heal? Is not like it gives then the ability to stun or make them deal over 4k dmg on 1skill shot only right?

So if rogue packs started healing 1100 HP more per pack, you wouldn't have an issue with it? It's a little heal boost. ;)

[Caabatric]

I suffered reading some of these comments by mages and rogues :/ (not all)
Between the extreme exagerations, the complete lack of knowledge of pvp, and the complete mmix of random comments, i could barely piece together what this thread is about.

First we need to stop comparing things based solely on paper. This actually would tell you tanks are the dominant class stat wise.... and maul is better than bonesaw, the eloia bow upgrade was useful etc...

First we need to level the playing field as much as possible.
(not in pvp yet)

Maxed Mage- 5.6K Health, 1500ish armor, 1000 damage, 43% crit, 10%dodge
Maxed Rogue- 5.2k Health, 1980 armor, 900 damage 46% crit, 50%dodge (crits on rogue is far stronger than a crit on mage)

Based solely on paper which class looks superior, rogue correct?

Now lets look at debuffs + buffs put on each class after skills are used (excluding pets):

Mage- -15% base armor, +50% armor (cancelled) +stun and bleed immunity, low chance to avoid auto attack (low damage shots), 55% damage reduction for about 8 seconds during vs
Rogue- -10% damage, +stun immunity, 3 individual packs healing 30% health each, high chance to avoid auto attack(low damage shots)

So lets look at what that^^ all means
Mage- 7.8k health for 7-9 seconds (in form of shield), 1000 damage, 1275 armor, Stun immunity for 7-9 seconds, tanks low damage shots (all other stats same)
Rogue- 9.8k health (in form of possible heal), 810 damage, 1980 armor, stun immunity for 8 seconds, low damage shots are void(with sp heal and dodge) (all other stats same)

Again it looks like rogues are the clear winner on PAPER!!

The rogues heal pack heals about 1.5k per pack, if it loses one of those packs rogues drop from 9.8k-8.3k-6.8k.... Not only this, but the statement "rogues dish out damage the fastest" is true on paper, but not in practice....

In the sample above rogues are using pack, razor, sp, aim.. Now most mages are smart to stay away from packs too avoid being sp often... Usually a rogue may pull off one sp before having to stay too close too packs, too sp without the loss of a needed pack...

I must say that pretty much balances out the mage vs rogue scenario...

Now clashes i have to test before blabbering about it....

[Americabud]

Whether I know how to control a rogue or not is not what is being questioned here. The fact is that even when mages have no shield up and I get a crit aimed shot, my combo is still unlikely to kill one with 5.7k hp, which is the norm at my gear level. Any mage who knows how to play will never be caught with no shield up in a 5 vs 5 clash with 2 nekros or more per team. That's an automatic 40% dmg reduction bonus, 80% when nekro and shield overlap, making it impossible to kill a mage 1 combo. Mages, on the other hand, can often kill me (5k hp 2.1k armor) with a combo of fire, ice and lightning. Crit lighting and fireball alone can bring me close enough to death that any attack, even from a lvl 46 arcane pet, will leave me dead. Don't take my word for it. Asking you to do so would be unreasonable. Take part in a clash, ideally as a rogue if u have one (lvl 46 at least 2 nekro and even gear), where both teams have the same number of tanks, but one team has more mages than the other and see how many clashes the team with more rogues wins. It's possible but very unlikely to happen. I have played enough clashes against one of the best mages in game (voorg) to know that stacking mages is very difficult to counter by stacking rogues.

@americabud obviously rogues will be at the top of event lb as they are single target and hence far faster than mages at killing bosses. Also as Zeus pointed out, your numbers on stats are way off, both for rogue and mage. If I were to maintain 2k armor 5k hp and 45 crit, I would need 8 eye gems, which is 16-18m right there. Mages have closer to 6k hp and often more crit than rogues. If you think rogues are overpowered in clashes, you are doing something wrong as a mage.

Mages often have more crit than mages? Lmao I hope that doesn't mean majority of the time... Back to the FACTS rouges have higher crit than any class their level the MAJORITY of times. Common knowledge there. Also if rouge has higher DMG output due to dmg x crit = true DMG and they also have more armour what does that mean, hmmmmm. More DMG output + more armour hmmm, please refer to my earlier posts to put 2 and 2 together so I don't have to repeat ty

[Caabatric]

Mages often have more crit than mages? Lmao I hope that doesn't mean majority of the time... Back to the FACTS rouges have higher crit than any class their level the MAJORITY of times. Common knowledge there. Also if rouge has higher DMG output due to dmg x crit = true DMG and they also have more armour what does that mean, hmmmmm. More DMG output + more armour hmmm, please refer to my earlier posts to put 2 and 2 together so I don't have to repeat ty

Please refer to my post when talking about on paper stats :/

When comparing maxed mage vs maxed rogue usually the mage has the same crit if not higher, in my example I based the crit off a random player I saw in garretta who was likely almost fully maxed on gems.....

Again the rogues have ahigher damage output when they crit, mages have a higher consistency of damage but are very capable of burst damage

[Oursizes]

Please refer to my post when talking about on paper stats :/

When comparing maxed mage vs maxed rogue usually the mage has the same crit if not higher, in my example I based the crit off a random player I saw in garretta who was likely almost fully maxed on gems.....

Again the rogues have ahigher damage output when they crit, mages have a higher consistency of damage but are very capable of burst damage

All it takes is one fireball

[kiwotsukete]

I am by far not the most skilled mage in pvp, but in pve, I have extreme amount of knowledge on the mechanics of a mage. I have played mage my entire time on the game, ive spent over 500 hours as a mage running maps. I will say this, a mage is better than a rogue... mages skills are by face more advanced than any rogue skills. our timing has to be much more spot on than a rogues. from a pve standpoint, a mage is more damage than a rogue, considering the mages AoE damage and the DoT of a mage. any mage can solo a map easier than a rogue considering I can stun and and block every single mob in this game except for bosses.

[Caabatric]

I am by far not the most skilled mage in pvp, but in pve, I have extreme amount of knowledge on the mechanics of a mage. I have played mage my entire time on the game, ive spent over 500 hours as a mage running maps. I will say this, a mage is better than a rogue... mages skills are by face more advanced than any rogue skills. our timing has to be much more spot on than a rogues. from a pve standpoint, a mage is more damage than a rogue, considering the mages AoE damage and the DoT of a mage. any mage can solo a map easier than a rogue considering I can stun and and block every single mob in this game except for bosses.

I am assuming you dont have much time in elite maps as rogue?
I guarantee maps will be easier too complete as a rogue as well as faster....

[Alhuntrazeck]

I'm not going to add my opinion here because frankly I'm tired of the cheap drama and popularity contest these threads have degraded too - and besides you all know my opinion as a mage lol. But I have tested it, and mage shield does NOT stack with Nekro shield. The reason I (and I suppose many other mages) use shield along with Nekro is because of the invulnerability and the fact that the mage shield is stronger than the Nekro shield. I'd rather start out a clash with invulnerability than with the Nekro shield alone with which I can be easily comboed by a rogue.

So no, not 80% damage reduction.

EDIT: Regarding crit. Conrad was the mage with the highest crit I knew of at the l41 cap - around 60%. How did he do this? Easy.

1 para, 14 eyes, the crit archon (which adds 3% crit more than shown in the cs window), crit versions of the imbued (force?). Thus, even though he had good gear, his damage was not very high at all (more or less equal to 650 I believe), while other mages of similar gear passed 700.

My point is, crit is easy to get if you stuff your gear with eyes (amok). U sacrifice on other things though so it's pointless, not to mention the cost.

(okay, I may be exaggerating on the number of eyes. Take it from me though it was a high number)

[Eldorado]

I am by far not the most skilled mage in pvp, but in pve, I have extreme amount of knowledge on the mechanics of a mage. I have played mage my entire time on the game, ive spent over 500 hours as a mage running maps. I will say this, a mage is better than a rogue... mages skills are by face more advanced than any rogue skills. our timing has to be much more spot on than a rogues. from a pve standpoint, a mage is more damage than a rogue, considering the mages AoE damage and the DoT of a mage. any mage can solo a map easier than a rogue considering I can stun and and block every single mob in this game except for bosses. Funny. I have a mage. I have more damage than a rogue. I own every class because of massive damage and very high crit and mana. I prefer to run with all mage because it will be faster because we are imba with three to four mages in pve. Mages are the champion of this game because secretly we own other class. Rogue should be the one to buff because they are weak. Because the fact that majority use mage because they want the op class toon. Now STS decide, will you listen here or base the statistics of whats happening in game? Join all my friends and support to debuff the op mage.

[kiwotsukete]

I am assuming you dont have much time in elite maps as rogue?
I guarantee maps will be easier too complete as a rogue as well as faster....

nah, as a mage it is easier since you can stun every mob and you can use clock as a blocker of mobs. yes, a rogue may be faster, but a mage with strategies, is an unstoppable force.

[CheifR]

Mages were never meant to do extremely significant damage to one specific target in the first place. You'll never be satisfied if you keep comparing yourself to us. AoE and amazing crowd control is what you guys specialize in and the more enemies in front of you = the more damage output. Rogues were designed to be able to take down ONE specific target QUICKLY. But give everyone else that ability then why would you need us either?

Some people need to understand that some of these situations are inevitable because of the roles of each class. If you like the idea of controlling the movement and dealing damage to large hordes of enemies GO MAGE. If you aren't satisfied with how quickly you can take down the target right in front of you than quit whining and GO ROGUE. Each class has their place and it's up to you to find out where you belong.

P.S. I don't really use warrior often so my opinion on their playstyle would be too prejudice to comment on.

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Eldorado]

nah, as a mage it is easier since you can stun every mob and you can use clock as a blocker of mobs. yes, a rogue may be faster, but a mage with strategies, is an unstoppable force.

You can stun every mobs on elite? Mage really rocks. Mages are invincible. Rules both pvp and pve. Evidence is we are at the every top of the ladder. Too bad the other class it to weak to go against mages on every aspect. Facts will never change. Many people will use the op class so do not mess around. Let us play mage legend forever.

[Americabud]

Mages were never meant to do extremely significant damage to one specific target in the first place. You'll never be satisfied if you keep comparing yourself to us. AoE and amazing crowd control is what you guys specialize in and the more enemies in front of you = the more damage output. Rogues were designed to be able to take down ONE specific target QUICKLY. But give everyone else that ability then why would you need us either?

Some people need to understand that some of these situations are inevitable because of the roles of each class. If you like the idea of controlling the movement and dealing damage to large hordes of enemies GO MAGE. If you aren't satisfied with how quickly you can take down the target right in front of you than quit whining and GO ROGUE. Each class has their place and it's up to you to find out where you belong.

P.S. I don't really use warrior often so my opinion on their playstyle would be too prejudice to comment on.

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

Noone is asking for a mage damage buff here... Just supporting the mage heal update gg

[CheifR]

None is asking for a mage damage buff here... Just supporting the mage heal update
In that case lots would be considered off topic as I see mentioned many many times about the fact that "well rogues deal x amount of dmg with x crit and we can't do that to them" it's rare in this thread that I've even seen people mention heal.

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[kiwotsukete]

im not asking for changes, simply defending rogues based off of my mage knowledge.

[Americabud]

In that case lots would be considered off topic as I see mentioned many many times about the fact that "well rogues deal x amount of dmg with x crit and we can't do that to them" it's rare in this thread that I've even seen people mention heal.

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

Well do you see how we are quoting each other comments.. Its possible to do so with any comment in this thread you should quote it because I don't think I've seen anyone argue for more damage for mages..

[Eldorado]

im not asking for changes, simply defending rogues based off of my mage knowledge.
Knowledge like stunning all the mob in elite maps with your fireball and move lock all the with your clock?

[CheifR]

Mages often have more crit than mages? Lmao I hope that doesn't mean majority of the time... Back to the FACTS rouges have higher crit than any class their level the MAJORITY of times. Common knowledge there. Also if rouge has higher DMG output due to dmg x crit = true DMG and they also have more armour what does that mean, hmmmmm. More DMG output + more armour hmmm, please refer to my earlier posts to put 2 and 2 together so I don't have to repeat ty
I'm sorry I must be blind but I can't seem to find anything here regarding this heal being used in clash :/ just complaints about rogue dmg vs mage

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[kiwotsukete]

Knowledge like stunning all the mob in elite maps with your fireball and move lock all the with your clock?

yep, that an over 500 hours of playing as a mage, spending days upon days researching mage pvp, speaking to the top mages, and testing mage pvp and trying it for myself. pretty sure I fit the bill when it comes to experience.

and yes, a mage can solo any elite using stuns and clocks. while singling out mobs that are immune to stuns, ice, and clocks such as the mages in planar (although clock drop with root upgrade works quite well on them. and it also stops quite a few hard bosses from moving I.e: t3 boss cant do his charge attack.

[Americabud]

I'm sorry I must be blind but I can't seem to find anything regarding this heal being used in clash :/ just complaints about rogue dmg vs mage

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

If you've read up you'd notice all the rouges under the assumption that the game was balanced before the update has disrupted the balance making rouges not as useful anymore. By looking at the facts the "heal upgrade" changed almost nothing about being dominate in highest damage output due to crit, second beat armour value worth 1k more than mages. By making these points clear hope to show rouges still dominate and the upgrade was much needed
For specifics on how to put 2 and 2 together refer to my earlier comments ty

[kiwotsukete]

If you've read up you'd notice all the rouges under the assumption that the game was balanced before the update has disrupted the balance making rouges not as useful anymore. By looking at the facts the "heal upgrade" changed almost nothing about being dominate in highest damage output due to crit, second beat armour value worth 1k more than mages. By making these points clear hope to show rouges still dominate and the upgrade was much needed

I simply do not understand where you get that mages have 1k less armor than rogues... as a mage my armor is over 1.6k... most rogues have 1.8-1.9k armor...

[CheifR]

If you've read up you'd notice all the rouges under the assumption that the game was balanced before the update has disrupted the balance making rouges not as useful anymore. By looking at the facts the "heal upgrade" changed almost nothing about being dominate in highest damage output due to crit, second beat armour value worth 1k more than mages. By making these points clear hope to show rouges still dominate and the upgrade was much needed
For specifics on how to put 2 and 2 together refer to my earlier comments ty
That only makes them more useful in keeping allies in CLASHES alive. It doesn't have anything to do with the people complaining on how they do SPECIFICALLY against rogues. Those are the people my comment was targeted at. I just explained why things are the way they are in that scenario but heal still wouldn't apply to that against a rogue and most people would still use 3damage skills against them. It DOES however make us that much less needed in clashes. Which is what rogues are upset about.

Edit: Does your mage have 900armor? Why do you keep saying rogues have 1k more than mages.

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Americabud]

That only makes them more useful in keeping allies in CLASHES alive. It doesn't have anything to do with the people complaining on how they do SPECIFICALLY against rogues. Those are the people my comment was targeted at. I just explained why things are the way they are in that scenario but heal still wouldn't apply to that against a rogue and most people would still use 3damage skills against them. It DOES however make us that much less needed in clashes. Which is what rogues are upset about.

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

So you want to nerf the heal although its fair... because people are choosing to clash with mages over you. Hmmm should the one target one hit ko rouge kings be more helpfull in a clash or a aoe supposedly supportive class that's meant to heal (magician) all players and DMG all players.. Hmm which should be a better choice for a 4v4 "clash" in a balanced game. And you'd choose the rouge because of course you'd rather the tables be turned in your favour.

Edit: gg

[CheifR]

So you want to nerf the heal although its fair... because people are choosing to clash with mages over you. Hmmm should the one target one hit ko rouge kings be more helpfull in a clash or a aoe supposedly supportive class that's meant to heal (magician) all players and DMG all players.. Hmm which should be a better choice for a 4v4 "clash" in a balanced game. And you'd choose the rouge because of course you'd rather the tables be turned in your favour.
Lol despite a mages AoE skills people would still atleast take a rogue with them. Atleast in a 5v5. Now having even LESS of a reason to do so I'm sure sts would like for characters of each class to cooperate. PvE and PvP. BTW you ignored my reply on your "1k more armor" statement?

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Eldorado]

I simply do not understand where you get that mages have 1k less armor than rogues... as a mage my armor is over 1.6k... most rogues have 1.8-1.9k armor...
1k difference is very off. What just make rogue special is their crit that reach 80% with stack aimshot and 2 secs cooldown on offensive skills. They can use 18 skill reps in 12 secs using three offensive skills. While with this upgrade if mage uses heal instead of third offensive skill then they can just do like 7 attack reps instead of 11. Rogue in reality have almost twice compared to mage. If mage will surrender the third slot for heal then it will be almost 3x more damage than mages. Mages will pay a lot of damage for the heal. Its buff and also will be a debuff when heal is equipped.

[CheifR]

1k difference is very off. What just make rogue special is their crit that reach 80% with stack aimshot and 2 secs cooldown on offensive skills. They can use 18 skill reps in 12 secs using three offensive skills. While with this upgrade if mage uses heal instead of third offensive skill then they can just do like 7 attack reps instead of 11. Rogue in reality have almost twice compared to mage. If mage will surrender the third slot for heal then it will be almost 3x more damage than mages. Mages will pay a lot of damage for the heal. Its buff and also will be a debuff when heal is equipped.
Oh so you'd like to do more damage to one specific target and you think it's unbalanced because rogues play their roles too well? This isn't me disrespecting your opinion this is an honest question. (Just to clarify)

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Americabud]

Lol despite a mages AoE skills people would still atleast take a rogue with them. Atleast in a 5v5. Now having even LESS of a reason to do so I'm sure sts would like for characters of each class to cooperate. PvE and PvP. BTW you ignored my reply on your "1k more armor" statement?

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

I'm not sure about your rouge haven't seen em but I've seen rouges with 2400 armour and usually above 1800 avg. But I've never never ever seen a mage with 1800 armour, on avg there armour is usually above 1400. Way to much armour for rouges.. mages are left to be super squishy trailing on avg 1k less armour than there rougeand warrior opponents. Any hit out of shield from rouge DMG x crit done. Any mage without nekro donedada. I don't know if you play often but its common knowledge rouges are op. Its just shocking that some rouges are acting like rouge isn't op.but that's natural if a unfair playing Field is made fair. The players that were winning unfairly and easier would not like the idea of things getting more competitive for them. But competition is good for the game

Edit: and its only a heal upgrade lol

[CheifR]

I'm not sure about your rouge haven't seen em but I've seen rouges with 2400 armour and usually above 1800 avg. But I've never never ever seen a mage with 1800 armour, on avg there armour is usually above 1400. Way to much armour for rouges.. mages are left to be super squishy trailing on avg 1k less armour than there rougeand warrior opponents. Any hit out of shield from rouge DMG x crit done. Any mage without nekro donedada. I don't know if you play often but its common knowledge rouges are op. Its just shocking that some rouges are acting like rouge isn't op.but that's natural if a unfair playing Field is made fair. The players that were winning unfairly and easier would not like the idea of things getting more competitive for them. But competition is good for the game
I just told you how the heal buff doesn't necessarily DIRECTLY affect most if not all rogues. Also my rogue is at about 1970? Around that armor and whatever rogue that manages to get 2400armor there's a HIGH chance he/she is sacrificing a LOT of other stats (prob wearing will gear and or reinforced gems galore) to reach that armor and I wouldn't believe otherwise unless I saw an ss.

Just checked and it's 1979...to be exact[emoji14]

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Zorin]

It's a cycle. Mages are designed to kill Rogues, Rogues are designed to kill Warriors and Warriors are designed to kill Mages.

I prefer 1vs1 because I can control the fight and if I lose, it is all on me and not my team. Clashes are too random and full of luck and if not luck, then it's stats. Other factors also come into play when players clash, such as latency and dropped fps. Players who are far apart from each other will cause lag and with all the sparks/lights/glows, a device can slow down in performance; not everyone has a high-end device that can handle so much happening on screen.

Therefore I look at PvP from a 1vs1 perspective and I support this Mage buff. I think it's fair since Mages are dead once their shields go down. It is very hard to beat a Warrior when he can tank everything and wait until your shield goes down and just two-three shot you and Rogues can also Tank and one-shot you.

In clash, it may be a different story but a "class" shouldn't reign over others, that would be broken.

- Warrior Noob

[Eldorado]

Oh so you'd like to do more damage to one specific target and you think it's unbalanced because rogues play their roles too well? This isn't me disrespecting your opinion this is an honest question. (Just to clarify)

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk Well is good. Too well is bad. Because not all the classes are doing too well. The buff is heal and eventhough the gap is 2 - 3 times in damage. Did you see me request for a damage buff? No, I only want the buff because its a support skill. It will make a difference but it is not meant to replace a rogues role.

[Ssneakykills]

New Pvp Map


You get given standard gear as you join the match
No vanitys
No names
No guild titles
No chat log



Can't really go wrong as this would stop any drama, name calling, egos and people who aren't as geared can pvp as well as I know how annoying/frustrating it is when you aren't geared well but you want to have a shot at pvp. When everyone has the same gear it would be easier to identify the weakness and overpower was of certain classes.

[Dex Scene]

Same way mages shouldn't compare themselves with far better geared rogue.
If a mage vs a equal geared rogue he wouldn't say MAGES are very weak. Time has changed. Mages rule clashes and they can kill EQUAL GEAR rogues in vs if they know what are they doing.

I read in last thread on this topic about why rogues have higher armor than mages?
Dude it's simple, Rogues don't have invulnerability or shield like mages have.
It isn't fair rogue and mages having same armor when mages have Stun immunity comes with a great damage reduction shield and invulnerability.
The way there are undergeared Mages, there are undergeared rogues aswel.
If there is any class which needs buff is only the warriors in PVE.



Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Robhawk]

Lets just stop it, its useless...

Every class expects buffs for own class and crys about buffs for other classes. A real balance isnt wanted... Fully para/eye gemmed gear is the basis for the whole thematic of "classbalance" and that is without any doubt RIDICULOUS !!! I dont get how someone can deny that a full para/eye setup just breaks any sort of classbalance in this game no matter which class... but its ok, im tired of speaking against walls! Im to nab to fight against maxed out players and those players are the brainmasters, the ones to tell all the other 99% that they dont understand the game! :encouragement:

[Transfordark]

Let's forget about the wars again.
I mean seriously wars doesn't even count in the classes.
Everywhere I've seen mage or rogue..mage,rogue,mage, rogue.
What about the wars??

[Transfordark]

The only way to get class balance is removing pots.

[Amicusdei]

I don't PvP, so please forgive my ignorance.
My opinion an $2 will get you a cup of coffee.
But everyone already has an equal set of gear:
Nothing.
Skills can be used even without a weapon.
No gear, no pet, no more excuses, right?
Or am I just completely wrong on this?

[Shelllz]

Hi Rob.
Tbh I don't recall ever calling u a nab, noob or w.e. I symply join ppl who say "join" in guild chat. Every time Voorg or I enter ur map, u say some swear words followed by "over geared noobs" and leave the map. I don't consider myself one of the top where Voorg, Love and Arry belong. I am geared and skilled, but definitely not the best nor have I ever said I am. Buy some gear bruh. IT'S SOOOOOO CHEAP. =P

[Oursizes]

Mages are left out in arena, all the time.

Buffs aren't required, a balance is required. A need to have every class in the party to complete a map successfully and with ease at the same time. Something simplistic as a quest or an obstacle or a simple monster which requires the tank class and the crowd control class.

Well, rogues are left out of km3 at times.

[Edward Coug]

I'm not sure about your rouge haven't seen em but I've seen rouges with 2400 armour and usually above 1800 avg. But I've never never ever seen a mage with 1800 armour, on avg there armour is usually above 1400. Way to much armour for rouges.. mages are left to be super squishy trailing on avg 1k less armour than there rougeand warrior opponents. Any hit out of shield from rouge DMG x crit done. Any mage without nekro donedada. I don't know if you play often but its common knowledge rouges are op. Its just shocking that some rouges are acting like rouge isn't op.but that's natural if a unfair playing Field is made fair. The players that were winning unfairly and easier would not like the idea of things getting more competitive for them. But competition is good for the game

Edit: and its only a heal upgrade lol

At one point, I had more armor than any other rogue I'd seen, and I didn't have 2,400. To do that, you have to sacrifice damage, health, and crit. Throwing out stats the way you did isn't useful. You could make a mage with lots of armor if you wanted to. It wouldn't be very wise, but neither would be having a rogue with 2,400 armor.

On average 1k less armor than rogues? That's also an exaggeration.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with you. I'm just saying you're not helping the conversation with exaggerations.

[Oursizes]

I'm not sure about your rouge haven't seen em but I've seen rouges with 2400 armour and usually above 1800 avg. But I've never never ever seen a mage with 1800 armour, on avg there armour is usually above 1400. Way to much armour for rouges.. mages are left to be super squishy trailing on avg 1k less armour than there rougeand warrior opponents. Any hit out of shield from rouge DMG x crit done. Any mage without nekro donedada. I don't know if you play often but its common knowledge rouges are op. Its just shocking that some rouges are acting like rouge isn't op.but that's natural if a unfair playing Field is made fair. The players that were winning unfairly and easier would not like the idea of things getting more competitive for them. But competition is good for the game

Edit: and its only a heal upgrade lol
The average mage can get at least 1300 armor easy with new legendaries, and the average rogue has around 1600-1800 armor depending on the gears and gems. Maxed rogues can reach around 2k armor due to arcane ring. Maxed mages can reach 1.5k easy with arcane ring. Stop overexaggerating on all of this.

[Caabatric]

another thing to point out...
HE is using the level 36 mythic helm over the level 46 legendaries or the imbued helm?? why?? IS it because of the 2-3% crit gain???

[Zeus]

another thing to point out...
HE is using the level 36 mythic helm over the level 46 legendaries or the imbued helm?? why?? IS it because of the 2-3% crit gain???

I do not understand why he is. Any imbued helm besides security is better. Perhaps it's for the third slot?

[Visiting]

another thing to point out...
HE is using the level 36 mythic helm over the level 46 legendaries or the imbued helm?? why?? IS it because of the 2-3% crit gain???

If that were the case, why not just use a force imbued helm? @.@ *mind is boggled*

[Caabatric]

If that were the case, why not just use a force imbued helm? @.@ *mind is boggled*

shhhhhh stop oint out my scrubiness :/
anyway i was thinking to get another eye gem socketed his hp is quite high

[kiwotsukete]

thats alot of para gems o.o I personally would have went with eyes :D

[Zeus]

thats alot of para gems o.o I personally would have went with eyes :D

If you go with eyes, then a sorcerer is outputting more damage than you are. The cost I make for such extreme damage is survivability and mana levels.

Really, this is why I proclaim that sorcerers do not need the heal. They have substantially more HP, albeit lower armor. Taking a look at Madnex's guide, HP is more valuable than armor anyways. So, is 6K HP in one hit range? Absolutely not. I would need both aim and SP to crit in order to one hit a sorcerer. Heck, it's not even a one hit but two hits extremely fast (one of which puts you right in the center of combat & damage). We all know how likely a rogue's full combo is going to land on one specific target...

[kiwotsukete]

If you go with eyes, then a sorcerer is outputting more damage than you are. The cost I make for such extreme damage is survivability and mana levels.

Really, this is why I proclaim that sorcerers do not need the heal. They have substantially more HP, albeit lower armor. Taking a look at Madnex's guide, HP is more valuable than armor anyways. So, is 6K HP in one hit range? Absolutely not. I would need both aim and SP to crit in order to one hit a sorcerer. Heck, it's not even a one hit but two hits extremely fast (one of which puts you right in the center of combat & damage). We all know how likely a rogue's full combo is going to land on one specific target...

well.... im a mage so I luvvvv the eye gems :3 so much hp and crit mmmmmmmm I wish they brought back eye gems... soooo juicyyyyy

[Robhawk]

Hi Rob.
Tbh I don't recall ever calling u a nab, noob or w.e. I symply join ppl who say "join" in guild chat. Every time Voorg or I enter ur map, u say some swear words followed by "over geared noobs" and leave the map. I don't consider myself one of the top where Voorg, Love and Arry belong. I am geared and skilled, but definitely not the best nor have I ever said I am. Buy some gear bruh. IT'S SOOOOOO CHEAP. =P

Ok, lets do the math:

I don't speak about the imbued helm/armor difference, the l46 cheap pinks are ok.

nekro: check
arcane ring: check
myth belt: check
l41 myth gun: nope -> A gun with para/eye only is AT LEAST 7M
myth pendand: nope -> dragbar 3M

Then i only need 2 eyes for helmet, 2 eyes for armor, 3 eyes for belt, 3 eyes for ring and another 3 eyes for pendand -> 13 * 2.5M = 32,5M

In total i need another 40M to be competitive... while this is noothin for the good old plat abusers, i dont weant to spend the real money that it takes and i'm a bad merchant. ;)



Here's Americabud's stats. They do not at all match the claims he is making. Heck, his pet name is my crit is high! So, it must not be very low.
138764

I just say wow, id love to play with that gear! :encouragement:

[Roninmoro]

Hey everyone, let's be careful about calling out other players specifically in a negative way. We want to stay productive and we're straying a bit.

[Eldorado]

Always going on papers yet no one really factored the skill cool down before doing the math and claim that mage will have better damage than rouge? It's tiring and its quite obvious you guys are just ganging up the poor guy. The more skills you can throw, the more damage you will do. In this case rouge is the obvious winner. Because they can throw 2 - 3 times more than other class. Thats 200 - 300% more damage than other classes. Make all offensive skill of other class to 2 secs and maybe I will believe that other class surpass rouge in terms of damage. I have a rouge, mage, warrior. They are not strong and not that well geared. I played many mmorpg and this game obviously have class imbalance. I will just respect what sts will decide but I just hope they will not be influence by players much. Good ping also helps, you can toy with a lot of players if you have <50 ping vs >300 ping. Many feeling pro will call you nub for delay reaction. If all factors are considered it is just best to enjoy the game than arguing with the know it all people. I am happy playing, and not because I am dominating. I played with all classes but for now I use rogue not because I want to but because its very easy to use and easy to find party. This is an opinion of a normal player and not the 1% pro player that is always wanted. Mentioning who is good and who is not for me is just arrogance. Well geared and nub gear is also only arrogance. Arcane I believe is a simple game everyone can enjoy, that is why it was made simple to begin with and that is why I enjoy playing it. I played game with 20 skill slots and I switch to AL because it has only 4 skill slot.It is easy, and fun. Do not ruin the game because of arrogance. This started with the mage heal buffed and hopefully some will try to use mage again not the .001% super pro mage that the .001% pro rogue is always mentioning.

[Wazakesy]

I dont see why mages are saying that they are still squishy. The question is, do you know how destructive a mage is? If no, then you clearly have to rub your eyes again and change your gear and gem setup. Mages are a devastating class now, sorry to say but mages are stronger than rogues now. Mages with elon/frost guns, imbued, arcane ring, belt, amulet, with the right amount of gems and gear you can easily kill maxed out rogues. Fire light ice shield are all OP skills, when they crit - imagine what happens to the rogue when they only have 1/3 of a mage's dmg. Ive seen most mages stacking about 4 paras (considering extra 3 nre slots) or even higher paras, and eye gems give so much crit at endgame that they are now a game changer for mages. Nekro even gives mages more power to kill rogues, toor is deadly as well.

[azacaanah]

End game pvp? Well geared mage fall back ._.

[Eldorado]

I dont see why mages are saying that they are still squishy. The question is, do you know how destructive a mage is? If no, then you clearly have to rub your eyes again and change your gear and gem setup. Mages are a devastating class now, sorry to say but mages are stronger than rogues now. Mages with elon/frost guns, imbued, arcane ring, belt, amulet, with the right amount of gems and gear you can easily kill maxed out rogues. Fire light ice shield are all OP skills, when they crit - imagine what happens to the rogue when they only have 1/3 of a mage's dmg. Ive seen most mages stacking about 4 paras (considering extra 3 nre slots) or even higher paras, and eye gems give so much crit at endgame that they are now a game changer for mages. Nekro even gives mages more power to kill rogues, toor is deadly as well.
Tell that ingame and sorry to say. Many will disagree. Wait, we are nubs so our opinion does not count. 90% opinion wasted. That is why many shift from warrior to rogue. Mage to rouge. Statistics shows facts. Many mage users now but in reality they do not use mage anymore and focus on rogue. I feel the destructive power of mage that is why now I am using rogue. Mage is squishy that is why they have shield, no shield no saving the smurf. Here comes the nekro thing again, everyone can use nekro. Who dont want nekro? All toons benefits with the existance of nekro. You play other mmo? The setup is a tank, a nuker, single massive, full support(Which we dont have). What is the best setup on end game al? Full single massive party? or looking for more rogue the better. Mages and warriors really do not have to argue because it shows ingame for a long time. Rogue is everything on al. Too bad only a handful number of mage know what they are doing. While almost newbie rogue can kill all with the same gear. Nothing wrong with that I guess?

[Robhawk]

BACK TO TOPIC

I repeat myself but: When we speak of a setup with 16 eye gems, ignoring the fact that para stones exist (which makes it even worse), this adds around 16% crit which is already more then 15 NOBLE lighting jewels can do AND on top of that it adds another 48 STR, 48 INT, 48 DEX which is like adding another 6 NOBLE fury jewels, 6 NOBLE finesse jewels and 6 NOBLE mind jewels!

16 EYE gems = 16 noble lightings + 6 noble finesse + 6 noble fury + 6 noble mind -> lol ?!!?!

Compare these facts and you will have to admit that it is like using 34 gem slots instead of 16! Now is it OP playing with 34 instead of 16 gem slots? So every myth/arcane item needs 6 gem slots and legendary gear needs 4 slots equipped with noble jewels to compensate the EYE setup... :boxing:

When you don't like the comparison with the more skill slots a full EYE gem setup nearly adds another arcane ring or myth pendant.

So to focus on the topic of this thread again: Should this really be the basis for class balance discussions, although only 1% of playerbase can afford such an OP setup?

[Americabud]

"Pls gear sirzs" - Ral
On a more serious note, if you compare Americanbud's stats and Zeus' stats, on paper, I'd go with Amercian's everytime and he's not even top geared, unlike Zeus who IS top geared. Along with the various rogue PVP nerfs (Dmg reduction/pet dmg% not applying), you can see why rogues are going to be the least favored class for clashes without even factoring how much better the Mage skills are in a clash setting especially when coupled with a tank or two...

I'm not top geared pfff gg

Edit:you mentioned mages will be favoured in clashes now. Hmmm AOE supportive class favored in clash..isnt that how it should be? Please refer to my earlier comments about putting 2 and 2 together

[Wazakesy]

Tell that ingame and sorry to say. Many will disagree. Wait, we are nubs so our opinion does not count. 90% opinion wasted. That is why many shift from warrior to rogue. Mage to rouge. Statistics shows facts. Many mage users now but in reality they do not use mage anymore and focus on rogue. I feel the destructive power of mage that is why now I am using rogue. Mage is squishy that is why they have shield, no shield no saving the smurf. Here comes the nekro thing again, everyone can use nekro. Who dont want nekro? All toons benefits with the existance of nekro. You play other mmo? The setup is a tank, a nuker, single massive, full support(Which we dont have). What is the best setup on end game al? Full single massive party? or looking for more rogue the better. Mages and warriors really do not have to argue because it shows ingame for a long time. Rogue is everything on al. Too bad only a handful number of mage know what they are doing. While almost newbie rogue can kill all with the same gear. Nothing wrong with that I guess?

Lol @ Other MMO, AL is AL.

What statistics shows a fact? They're numbers on paper - rogues with 2.1k armor, 875dmg, 5khp are still far away from mages with 900+dmg, 45% crit, 1.5k armor, 5.7k+ hp. Do you even know what a mage is capable of? You clearly have no idea to play a mage then.

[Robhawk]

and I repeat its only a HEAL update for a class that specializes in HEAL some rouges are a little upset because mages are being preferred in CLASH even though mages are supposed to be the CLASH/AOE class.. Don't neglect a little competition

Bro, its useless... The heal took 1% off of the rogues and this is already to much to accept. :hopelessness:

[Eldorado]

Lol @ Other MMO, AL is AL.

What statistics shows a fact? They're numbers on paper - rogues with 2.1k armor, 875dmg, 5khp are still far away from mages with 900+dmg, 45% crit, 1.5k armor, 5.7k+ hp. Do you even know what a mage is capable of? You clearly have no idea to play a mage then.Wow nice stats, is that what make class stronger than other class? If a character have a lesser damage on stats means it is weaker? A class skill makes them dominant to other class. The stats just helps to win more even if the class is at a disadvantage. One class dominates the other class but is at huge disadvantage to others. Here rogues assume they are the killers so its normal for them to kill all class easily and plus the maps are designed for all rouges team to run faster without other class because mobs are not dense enough to overun if they have no nuker or have no tanks to accomodate them. You can research all you want about max player stats, but it is not the major factor that makes a class imbalance.

[Wazakesy]

Wow nice stats, is that what make class stronger than other class? If a character have a lesser damage on stats means it is weaker? A class skill makes them dominant to other class. The stats just helps to win more even if the class is at a disadvantage.

Mage's have their shield on most of the time (both the char stats were a nekro -summoned- stats).

[Eldorado]

Mage's have their shield on most of the time (both the char stats were a nekro -summoned- stats).
Its the fault of the user for having no nekro to survive longer as they do. They have nekro? If you do not have the right equip to counter them then its obvious you will lose. That is not mage being too powerful, it is difference between gears.

[Bigboyblue]

I have read through this thread and the others concerning the mage heal buff and have to say I'm a bit confused. So the problem is that rogues aren't really needed in clashes now? Or is it viable to have a single rogue in clashes still? Would this be comparable to having a pve team of 3 rogues and 1 mage? As in you would rather have 4 rogues most of the time but sometimes a mage is useful? Are rogues asked to leave clashes so you can run a team of 2 warriors and 3 mages or 3 warriors and 2 mages? The biggest question I have is whether this issue is as bad as warriors having no place in pve?

[Zeus]

I have read through this thread and the others concerning the mage heal buff and have to say I'm a bit confused. So the problem is that rogues aren't really needed in clashes now? Or is it viable to have a single rogue in clashes still? Would this be comparable to having a pve team of 3 rogues and 1 mage? As in you would rather have 4 rogues most of the time but sometimes a mage is useful? Are rogues asked to leave clashes so you can run a team of 2 warriors and 3 mages or 3 warriors and 2 mages? The biggest question I have is whether this issue is as bad as warriors having no place in pve?

Rogues are asked to leave clash so their can have a team of 2 warriors and 3 mages if available.

[Zeus]

Would like to comment here.

Playstyle has nothing to do with gear etc, have to do with where u spend ur stats and stuff u got. If you know what I mean.

P.S.: inb4#googlestatistics


Huh? Build is where you spend your stats & the stuff you got. Playstyle, akin to strategy is how you use your build to defeat an opponent.

[Titanium]

Wait and see eye's price with 46 mythic set around . Many will lose their eyes/para from their current set. Mythic weapons lvl 41 will be replaced in next 2 month with something else. Jewels indeed are ... ( i can't find a non-meaner word to call them ) . I was looking forward for a new op gem/jewel during Ursoth event instead i got some wings... i'm adoring them ... no shhh !

[CheifR]

Lol @ Other MMO, AL is AL.

What statistics shows a fact? They're numbers on paper - rogues with 2.1k armor, 875dmg, 5khp are still far away from mages with 900+dmg, 45% crit, 1.5k armor, 5.7k+ hp. Do you even know what a mage is capable of? You clearly have no idea to play a mage then.
Well I definitely wouldn't say ANY rogue. Lots of rogues have no idea what they're doing either. Charging skills(bad unless you're really poor with no pots) , including shadow storm shot(bad), how they spec their skills and how they move has to be a little different since we don't have any invulnerability to catch are breah. The times in which it IS a good idea to charge nox and trap placement. It isn't just "click click click"

Edit: zz quoted wrong guy so sorry
Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Upperbound]

Agreed Roges are OP on any level. 15 level rogue with 150 damage AS crit for 1.5k to warrior with 800 armor. GG. two crits and war is dead. :D 10x damage for AS ROFL
On 46 they crit for 5k :D lol
STS cmon check your crit formulas. Its's not that hard for you... hmm. maybe :D

[Kingofninjas]

Well I definitely wouldn't say ANY rogue. Lots of rogues have no idea what they're doing either. Charging skills, including shadow storm shot, how they spec their skills and how they move has to be a little different since we don't have any invulnerability to catch are breah. The times in which it IS a good idea to charge nox and trap placement. It isn't just "click click click"

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

Shadow storm shot has its place and time. In arena and easier tomb maps, it helps clear mobs faster and gives extra damage on boss. Also nox's poison dmg is so insignificant it is never a good idea to charge nox IMO.

[CheifR]

Shadow storm shot has its place and time. In arena and easier tomb maps, it helps clear mobs faster and gives extra damage on boss. Also nox's poison dmg is so insignificant it is never a good idea to charge nox IMO.
Shadow storm shot IMO is useless considering how very little damage it does. I've seen it hardly even do much if any damage to the spiders in arena + you'd have to charge it for the AoE but without the DoT affect and the extended cooldown when you can just substitute it for either pierce with the potential to do near the damage of an aimed shot, nox with a cd about 2x quicker and higher if not similar dmg. OR traps which do a very good amount of damage alone with the potential of an instantly reset cd and the VERY useful net. Veil can speed up the rate in which ur party kills the pull and works wonders for keeping everyone alive.

From experience it actually is pretty effective to RARELY charge nox but with pulls of 6+mobs in difficult elite maps. https://youtu.be/DxRu2V10ARs

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk

[Americabud]

Actually, I didn't screenshot you. Somebody else did and I was given the screenshot. I already have seen your stats as you've requested to fight me on numerous occasions, something we both know what the outcome was. As for your build, it's not far off from many maxed sorcerers.

My 1K damage is with elixirs - something that is not applicable in PvP. Heck, my PvP stats are even less than the screenshot provided due to debuffs that sorcerers seem to be ignoring every time. I do not manipulate my screenshots so please do not accuse me of such. I have 2K armor because I have 3 grand reinforced fire gems. If I did not, my armor would be significantly less. The only other way to get similar armor would be to use padded and sacrifice a significant amount of crit - another factor that you seem to be brushing aside.

My point is to prove that someone with your stats should not have a problem winning against a rogue like me, much less be complaining on forums that sorcerers are underpowered when the best sorcerers in the game do not ever do such acts. Why you're having issues killing rogues, I do not know. Perhaps, there is something wrong with your build or play style.


Lol I have no problem at all farming ALL day in tdm any class and anyone who visits tdm over CTF might telo you its my playground. 2:1 kdr in tdm and all without a guild. For each kill all alone, been ganged plenty but kdr is pretty easy for me so I take the gangs and even win somtetimes. As for our fights you beat me before the update and you beat me after the update really bad. So bad the last time I was hardly able to win at least 1/5 of the rounds... Granted I was horribly armoured in our fight after the update. Funny how you count every loss to me as a mistake on your part. About 3 days ago I was begging you for a vs I even saw you in my forest. DC/rc and you still were in my forest pmed you and all and you didn't reply. I was eager to embarrass you that day with the new heal update. And at least get as many kills of u as you'd get on me. Considering only 1 mage has ever beat you I'd say coming close to a tie would assure you I have no problems "killing rouges in the game" no problems with "my build and play style" ...I'm pro obviously. Furthermore does it matter you CLAIM took the screenshots of my character.. I pointed out the fact that you POSTED them while I could've told you my stats while I was wearing my better gear I have nothing to have I talk about my high stats all the time... You on the other hand are being dishonest with this forum if your claiming the spruced up ss you took and posted of yourself are the true stats of the strongest richest rouge in the game. Like I said I've seen you with 5k HP 1kdmg together BEFORE the update and well over 2k armour since then.. Nice try though.

Edit: seeing how you brag about noone on this game being able to beat you besides 1 person... And how you love to clash.. I'd understand how you'd be in denial... But the proof in the pudding. No other maxed class can beat your maxed class? No other class can be more useful than rouges in clashes? Now that sts is fixing the game to be more balanced of course the person who took advantage of their class being stronger by default is going to be upset that they will have to compete fairly and use actual skill to be a rouge.. Rouge legends coming to and end hopefully this is the beginning. I say next sts should take rouges armour away seeing how they give most dmg output due to crit they should be most vulnerable

Edit: and you "need not complain on forums' about how mage heal skill threatens the well being of your rouge in a clash which is a aoe fight lmao just improve your skill

[Edward Coug]

Ok, lets do the math:

I don't speak about the imbued helm/armor difference, the l46 cheap pinks are ok.

nekro: check
arcane ring: check
myth belt: check
l41 myth gun: nope -> A gun with para/eye only is AT LEAST 7M
myth pendand: nope -> dragbar 3M

Then i only need 2 eyes for helmet, 2 eyes for armor, 3 eyes for belt, 3 eyes for ring and another 3 eyes for pendand -> 13 * 2.5M = 32,5M

In total i need another 40M to be competitive... while this is noothin for the good old plat abusers, i dont weant to spend the real money that it takes and i'm a bad merchant. ;)




I just say wow, id love to play with that gear! :encouragement:

You don't need max gear to be competitive with the vast majority of the player base. We should be discussing equal gear between the classes, anyway. It's not like it's cheap to max gear a rogue.

EDIT:

By the way, dragonite bars are entirely farmable. If you can't afford to buy one, you should be farming one, if you really want to get the best gear.

[Americabud]

Seems like common knowledge is prevailing.. Rouges were and still are the most op class and everyone in the game knows that regardless of a few rouges complaining about a mage heal on forums. Rouges are the best class by default and its just laughable to here a rouge deny otherwise.. Its like who ya fooling lol. Mr never ever ever lost a PvP fight accept to one person but my class is still not op lolol

[kiwotsukete]

Seems like common knowledge is prevailing.. Rouges were and still are the most op class and everyone in the game knows that regardless of a few rouges complaining about a mage heal on forums. Rouges are the best class by default and its just laughable to here a rouge deny otherwise.. Its like who ya fooling lol. Mr never ever ever lost a PvP fight accept to one person but my class is still not op lolol

m8 I think you have a hardon for zeus LOLOLOL

[Americabud]

m8 I think you have a hardon for zeus LOLOLOL

Actually I've known Zeus for a while he's 1/20 on my friends list and BTW friends don't always have to agree and disagreements arent always had by enemies. You on the other hand, don't know ya.. Gg m8

[Tatman]

Shadow storm shot has its place and time. In arena and easier tomb maps, it helps clear mobs faster and gives extra damage on boss. Also nox's poison dmg is so insignificant it is never a good idea to charge nox IMO.
I charge nox when soloing. :) And in other situations too, but that's another topic.

[kiwotsukete]

I charge nox when soloing. :) And in other situations too, but that's another topic.

yep, charge nox if there is like 6+ mobs in a pull, so they all get the DoT :D

[pompous]

Seems like common knowledge is prevailing.. Rouges were and still are the most op class and everyone in the game knows that regardless of a few rouges complaining about a mage heal on forums. Rouges are the best class by default and its just laughable to here a rouge deny otherwise.. Its like who ya fooling lol. Mr never ever ever lost a PvP fight accept to one person but my class is still not op lolol

I agree with this. His idea of balance is when it's tipped slightly in his favor. Whether it be with class balance or pets he owns, such as SNS because the highest concentration of SNS is among him and his friends / guild mates. Rogues are dominant in every aspect of the game. He wants the Devs now to believe that they are not good in clash. Even if that's true, so what? Are warriors good in Arena? No! Are mages dominant in any part of the game other than helping people level up their pets and toons in WT4? No! That sounds like a bad deal if you ask me. Most warriors and mages have been forced to create a rogue so that they could compete in all other aspects of the game. My recommendation to the rogues here is to make a mage for clash (if you really feel that left out) and stop complaining. You guys can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Zeus]

I agree with this. His idea of balance is when it's tipped slightly in his favor. Whether it be with class balance or pets he owns, such as SNS because the highest concentration of SNS is among him and his friends / guild mates. Rogues are dominant in every aspect of the game. He wants the Devs now to believe that they are not good in clash. Even if that's true, so what? Are warriors good in Arena? No! Are mages dominant in any part of the game other than helping people level up their pets and toons in WT4? No! That sounds like a bad deal if you ask me. Most warriors and mages have been forced to create a rogue so that they could compete in all other aspects of the game. My recommendation to the rogues here is to make a mage for clash (if you really feel that left out) and stop complaining. You guys can't have your cake and eat it too.

Slightly in my favor? I always vs people with the same tier of pets as them. In fact, you can ask Caabatric about this last night. He challenged me to a fight.

I don't mind fighting Americabud, he might learn something and I have the opportunity as well. If he wants to fight, I say lets do it.

[Zeus]

Lol I have no problem at all farming ALL day in tdm any class and anyone who visits tdm over CTF might telo you its my playground. 2:1 kdr in tdm and all without a guild. For each kill all alone, been ganged plenty but kdr is pretty easy for me so I take the gangs and even win somtetimes. As for our fights you beat me before the update and you beat me after the update really bad. So bad the last time I was hardly able to win at least 1/5 of the rounds... Granted I was horribly armoured in our fight after the update. Funny how you count every loss to me as a mistake on your part. About 3 days ago I was begging you for a vs I even saw you in my forest. DC/rc and you still were in my forest pmed you and all and you didn't reply. I was eager to embarrass you that day with the new heal update. And at least get as many kills of u as you'd get on me. Considering only 1 mage has ever beat you I'd say coming close to a tie would assure you I have no problems "killing rouges in the game" no problems with "my build and play style" ...I'm pro obviously. Furthermore does it matter you CLAIM took the screenshots of my character.. I pointed out the fact that you POSTED them while I could've told you my stats while I was wearing my better gear I have nothing to have I talk about my high stats all the time... You on the other hand are being dishonest with this forum if your claiming the spruced up ss you took and posted of yourself are the true stats of the strongest richest rouge in the game. Like I said I've seen you with 5k HP 1kdmg together BEFORE the update and well over 2k armour since then.. Nice try though.

Edit: seeing how you brag about noone on this game being able to beat you besides 1 person... And how you love to clash.. I'd understand how you'd be in denial... But the proof in the pudding. No other maxed class can beat your maxed class? No other class can be more useful than rouges in clashes? Now that sts is fixing the game to be more balanced of course the person who took advantage of their class being stronger by default is going to be upset that they will have to compete fairly and use actual skill to be a rouge.. Rouge legends coming to and end hopefully this is the beginning. I say next sts should take rouges armour away seeing how they give most dmg output due to crit they should be most vulnerable

Edit: and you "need not complain on forums' about how mage heal skill threatens the well being of your rouge in a clash which is a aoe fight lmao just improve your skill

Well over 2K armor? That's an impossibility for me in my gear, sorry. The only time I have over 1000 damage is when on an elixir. PvP damage hovers between 700-720 depending on how much str I decide to play with that day.

Balance is all classes requiring some usefulness. Just how rogues can be unbalanced in PvE, mages are unbalanced in PvP clashes. This heal just extrapolates this imbalance. Heck, even in PvE, sorcerers are not entirely outdone by rogues. Most maps still require at least one. However; in PvP, the fact remains that 2 tank 3 Mage clashes overrule the need for a rogue. Anything that a rogue can do in clash, a sorcerer can do better. That is imbalance.

Additionally, you cannot compare me to the balance of rogues. I have 3 years of experience in rogue. That's why sorcerers rarely win in a 1v1 scenario. If you pick someone at the same skill level as you, it's more likely to be an even fight.

Lastly, TDM is insanely easy to get a positive KDR in. It usually works out to be higher geared players farming lower geared players, ganging, and catching opponents by surprise.

[Farminer's]

Skill>gear as a 15 pro twink my rogue has 100 damage in PvP (ungeared) I fought against my friend also level 15 (new para and maridos) 150 damage in PvP. I won once and lost once with him only 2% health. Please explain. Another example my warrior is not maxed gear lvl 15 http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/17/f6e06fd0d474d85885b8ac15a2329f08.jpg
Yet I can vs people like Svvords. And tie Nekro vs singe. It is all about Skill and experience other then this gear difference.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

[Americabud]

Well over 2K armor? That's an impossibility for me in my gear, sorry. The only time I have over 1000 damage is when on an elixir. PvP damage hovers between 700-720 depending on how much str I decide to play with that day.

Balance is all classes requiring some usefulness. Just how rogues can be unbalanced in PvE, mages are unbalanced in PvP clashes. This heal just extrapolates this imbalance. Heck, even in PvE, sorcerers are not entirely outdone by rogues. Most maps still require at least one. However; in PvP, the fact remains that 2 tank 3 Mage clashes overrule the need for a rogue. Anything that a rogue can do in clash, a sorcerer can do better. That is imbalance.

Additionally, you cannot compare me to the balance of rogues. I have 3 years of experience in rogue. That's why sorcerers rarely win in a 1v1 scenario. If you pick someone at the same skill level as you, it's more likely to be an even fight.

Lastly, TDM is insanely easy to get a positive KDR in. It usually works out to be higher geared players farming lower geared players, ganging, and catching opponents by surprise.

It seems like its harder for someone like me with no guild who has never called in life and who ALWAYS PvP solo to get a good kdr in tdm. On the other hand people like you who always have been in guilds like unified horror magnum karma get positive kdr in ctff much easier being able to pick the players that are the best of their class to clash with you when you call. From exp CTF is full of gangers blockers ldrb guild newbies on both teams but not attking the other team because they are guild mates. Solo mage player in tdm who has never called in life. Im pretty sure it did not come easy for me. I'm solid

Edit: rouges are pros at catching me offgaurd in tdm. No shield then all see is respawn button because mage without shield = gone.. That's my whole point mages rely on special skill buffs just to not get 2 hit koed by a rouge with the same gear.. So the add of the heal skill is welcomed. We lack in stats but try to make up for it with special spells Like heal

[Visiting]

It seems like its harder for someone like me with no guild who has never called in life and who ALWAYS PvP solo to get a good kdr in tdm. On the other hand people like you who always have been in guilds like unified horror magnum karma get positive kdr in ctff much easier being able to pick the players that are the best of their class to clash with you when you call. From exp CTF is full of gangers blockers ldrb guild newbies on both teams but not attking the other team because they are guild mates. Solo mage player in tdm who has never called in life. Im pretty sure it did not come easy for me. I'm solid

I'm completely solo as well, I have no affiliations with any PVP guilds, I have a positive TDM Kdr as well on my Mage, my CTF Kdr isn't positive because I screwed it up during S2-3 (FAIL). My rogue has a positive KDR in CTF/TDM despite being ganged/blocked/etc by every guild that PVPs at endgame (and some non-PVP guilds @.@). So, what exactly is your point?

[Americabud]

I have no PVP players on my friends list besides players who do PVE as well. I've been in Enigmatic since DAY 1, in case you didn't know, Enigmatic is purely a PVE guild, while some of our members do PVP time to time, they do it on their own, and don't use the /g chat to call as a PVP guild would. I've never been in a PVP guild, my previous guilds are such - The Collective, Arcane Fellowship, Rage of Mages, and The Elite Mafia. While AF/RoM did PVP to some extent, I for one was not involved in those endeavors. How many times have I called? Never, since I have no one to call, on occasion, I would ask friends they'd like to come and join for a clash, though I would hardly call the "calling" as a PVP player would.

Lmao so you call but your still misleading people to believe you've never called in life? You claim you don't call as much as a PvP player so that means your solo player... Is that a joke. Like I said I've never called not even once, you on the otherhand have called 100+ times since you've started this game who ya foolin? And you don't have friends that PvP... Who dont pve as well... I'm really starting to think your joking.. What does that even mean. Your a caller ldrb guild dependant. I repeat. I'm a ACTUAL solo player

[Zeus]

It seems like its harder for someone like me with no guild who has never called in life and who ALWAYS PvP solo to get a good kdr in tdm. On the other hand people like you who always have been in guilds like unified horror magnum karma get positive kdr in ctff much easier being able to pick the players that are the best of their class to clash with you when you call. From exp CTF is full of gangers blockers ldrb guild newbies on both teams but not attking the other team because they are guild mates. Solo mage player in tdm who has never called in life. Im pretty sure it did not come easy for me. I'm solid

Edit: rouges are pros at catching me offgaurd in tdm. No shield then all see is respawn button because mage without shield = gone.. That's my whole point mages rely on special skill buffs just to not get 2 hit koed by a rouge with the same gear.. So the add of the heal skill is welcomed. We lack in stats but try to make up for it with special spells Like heal

Rogues face the exact same issue you do coming down. If caught in a blind spot, it's GG rogue or any DPS class for that matter. Anyways, for the first year, I was able to PvP and maintain a positive KDR and that was during guild wars too. Arrypotta didn't join the guild wars until April 2014ish, he's also been able to maintain positive KDR.

Anyways, my point isn't to humiliate or embarrass you. My point is to show that we've been in your position and know how it is to PvP even in random games.


Anyways, I can vouch for Visiting. He has me on friends list but he's yet to call me even once to help him. Often times, I will PvP through friends list, join and see that he's being ganged. How he has the patience to tolerate that, I don't know. I think it's the raw spaghetti he eats, personally. :)

[pompous]

Finish the sentence, "Until current PVP is fixed", when is the last time you played an actual game of Capture The Flag? I can tell you it's been months since I've played a legitimate game where the goal was to capture the flag. STS should be fixing the problems that plague PVP, ganging, free flagging, blocking, the whole nine yards, before they make a PVP mode that is flawed due to class balance anyways. (Rogues have the advantage due to 1v1 being their basic purpose as the single target class).

Very good points.

[Kingofninjas]

Lmao who are you nab I'd embarrass your little account you've never seen me in PvP because never in life have I used fireball in PvP NEVER. Shield. Heal.lightning. ice at all times every time and anyone who has seen me in PvP knows that. Fireball? Pfff I use only 1v1 attacks even in gang. So your making stories up on forum lmao go work on your failed account you know i bully you ib forest.

Edit: OMG kingofninjas I know YOU!!! Lmao how's it going food. Farmed you so bad I never see you in tdm. You have the stats of a level 23 warrior but your a rouge gg stop being a cheerleader and go get you some armour

Edit: saying I use fireball? GG exposed as a Lier, also I cried gang and ran? Lmao who are you the left pinky on the right hand of a real rouge??

Care to act on your words and vs? Pm me when ur online. Stats don't mean much to me since I've been PvPing under geared since s5 and only got gear this season.

[Caabatric]

Slightly in my favor? I always vs people with the same tier of pets as them. In fact, you can ask Caabatric about this last night. He challenged me to a fight.

I don't mind fighting Americabud, he might learn something and I have the opportunity as well. If he wants to fight, I say lets do it.

This is quite unture. We did not fight on the same gear level for the first 10 vs when i used a belt for the first one, and level 46 legendaries the next 9 times C=. After that we were on the same gear levle and I lost 6-10 :?/ (all the other vs. were "practice")

Anyway I was able to see my mistakes during and after the vs's were over.
A) counted usually too fast the razor stun time, meaning i missed the final stun quite often
B) gave Zeus the advantage by laying off the pressure
C) not being able to follow up my crit attacks with other skills quick enough

Had I done all the above right maybe I would have done considerably better, may have even won...
Overall the fight was very balanced imo.
Rogue should rule in 1v1 and I did well enough considering my class is not a 1v1 type class. (at least imo)

[Americabud]

Care to act on your words and vs? Pm me when ur online. Stats don't mean much to me since I've been PvPing under geared since s5 and only got gear this season.

Vs pfffff lmao when I'm online pm you. Let's go online now and vs so I can comeback and tell this thread how bad I rekt you

Edit: you didn't reply to my accusations that you are a story teller.. You said I charge fireball? How so when I've never used fireball in PvP not ever not once. GG nab I live by facts not fiction try it sometimes

[Caabatric]

Edit: you have positive kdr on a rouge in ctff... Solo or did that involve lotta calling and dependence? I'm INDEPENDENT, so simple and clear to understand

Okay I jsut have to do this
#MERICA INDEPENDENCE FOR ALL!!!!

[Americabud]

Okay I jsut have to do this
#MERICA INDEPENDENCE FOR ALL!!!!

Loool. Everyday is independence day for americabud

[Kingofninjas]

Vs pfffff lmao when I'm online pm you. Let's go online now and vs so I can comeback and tell this thread how bad I rekt you

Edit: you didn't reply to my accusations that you are a story teller.. You said I charge fireball? How so when I've never used fireball in PvP not ever not once. GG nab I live by facts not fiction try it sometimes

You used fireball back in season 7 when you would run the second I joined map. Maybe now you don't but that explains why you lose so much. You don't have a reliable stun attack.

[Americabud]

You used fireball back in season 7 when you would run the second I joined map. Maybe now you don't but that explains why you lose so much. You don't have a reliable stun attack.

Still trying to piece together a story? Your food to me and always have been. Never not once used fireball in pvp so again I urge you to stop spending your time trying to come up with a ridiculous lie and spend more time on your failed rouge account

Edit: have you seen your toon? I don't think anyone has ever ran from you ever laterally lol. Noone believes your lie, I don't use fireball and your the bottom of the food chain.

Edit: explains why I lose so much? 2:1 kdr in tdm as solo mage so when do I lose a lot? Why am I even talking to you everyone in game that has seen your account knows your one of those people who have played for the longest, but have the least.. You rouge looks like you started playing a month ago. I'm sure your just mad because your not even relevant your food for EVERYONE

[Kingofninjas]

Still trying to piece together a story? Your food to me and always have been. Never not once used fireball in pvp so again I urge you to stop spending your time trying to come up with a ridiculous lie and spend more time on your failed rouge account

Edit: have you seen your toon? I don't think anyone has ever ran from you ever laterally lol. Noone believes your lie, I don't use fireball and your the bottom of the food chain.

Cool story bruh. I went on and you weren't on. I'll be back on in a few hours.

[Seoratrek]

Hello everyone,

We appreciate the feedback. As a general reminder, please remember to keep the discussion constructive and on topic. Posts meant to bait others into arguing are no fun for anyone. I will forward these concerns to the dev team so that they can review it. Thank you!