Red Dragon Slayer question

[TerryDarc]

I've only played since last Dec. 2014 and worked my way up. Got the very best crafted Savage Dragon armor for my 76 fox. Every few days or weeks, I get the 3x combo daily blessing and a couple of days ago, I played 30 or so RDS runs. Yesterday I got hooked onto a RDS game without the 3x and picked up 3 pinks. Nice! I couldn't see that anyone else got worse drops (nobody did better than me, I think). Didn't hurt anyone's chances.

Today I got no 3x combo and get booted or threatened when I try to enter RDS runs. I actually had one jerk come down from the plate and stand in front of me! What a turd-blossom!:peaceful:

Personally, I think it's BS. Let the better, higher level players in, restrict to 74 up, say or even 77. I don't care. THAT would make sense. Faster runs, more drops and better for anyone.

So, somebody please tell me what the idea is of not letting players in without the combo? Or am I missing something?

[Ignitedmage]

I've only played since last Dec. 2014 and worked my way up. Got the very best crafted Savage Dragon armor for my 76 fox. Every few days or weeks, I get the 3x combo daily blessing and a couple of days ago, I played 30 or so RDS runs. Yesterday I got hooked onto a RDS game without the 3x and picked up 3 pinks. Nice! I couldn't see that anyone else got worse drops (nobody did better than me, I think). Didn't hurt anyone's chances.

Today I got no 3x combo and get booted or threatened when I try to enter RDS runs. I actually had one jerk come down from the plate and stand in front of me! What a turd-blossom!:peaceful:

Personally, I think it's BS. Let the better, higher level players in, restrict to 74 up, say or even 77. I don't care. THAT would make sense. Faster runs, more drops and better for anyone.

So, somebody please tell me what the idea is of not letting players in without the combo? Or am I missing something?

the ERD runs requires some things like
1. Combo
2. Only bird, mages and 1 bear just to tank
3. A full set(int or dex more preferred because of more damage)

[TerryDarc]

Like I mentioned, I played yesterday without 3x and did really well. Did not die. So, the game doesn't REQUIRE combo. Only the game's host does that by kicking people who don't meet their personal standard or for whatever reason. I'm a little pissed at getting booted so I can't continue my Crystal Clear quest - I'm 208/214 now, btw. My fox tanks nicely, thank you. Way, way better than birds, IMO. They booted me before they saw me play, btw.

[Iheybeautiful]

Like I mentioned, I played yesterday without 3x and did really well. Did not die. So, the game doesn't REQUIRE combo. Only the game's host does that by kicking people who don't meet their personal standard or for whatever reason. I'm a little pissed at getting booted so I can't continue my Crystal Clear quest - I'm 208/214 now, btw. My fox tanks nicely, thank you. Way, way better than birds, IMO. They booted me before they saw me play, btw.
Having a combo makes it faster and more time-saving, that's all.
It's not about how good of a tank you are or how lucky you are, it's about the speed of the runs.

[Ignitedmage]

Like I mentioned, I played yesterday without 3x and did really well. Did not die. So, the game doesn't REQUIRE combo. Only the game's host does that by kicking people who don't meet their personal standard or for whatever reason. I'm a little pissed at getting booted so I can't continue my Crystal Clear quest - I'm 208/214 now, btw. My fox tanks nicely, thank you. Way, way better than birds, IMO. They booted me before they saw me play, btw.

Well yea because foxes and rhinos are really rare people think they sucks however some are good at the other hand

I prefer you to ask people if they wanna run with you in erd and you can also tell them your advantages.. probably they won't boot

[Felicity]

A host can do what he wants, that's why he hosted the game, if he doesn't want someone without a combo he's allowed to kick him, just host your own game.

[Ignitedmage]

A host can do what he wants, that's why he hosted the game, if he doesn't want someone without a combo he's allowed to kick him, just host your own game.

Wasn't a helpful answer from any side

[Basauli]

They think a fox without a thrasher is useless.

They don't usually boot a mage without a thrasher unless they are ungeared, or if they have too many mages.

So unless your a mage and you don't have a combo they are likely to boot and invite another player or wait for another one to join

[Magic Sword]

Get xyzpro to solo it for u

[Sheugokin]

I've only played since last Dec. 2014 and worked my way up. Got the very best crafted Savage Dragon armor for my 76 fox. Every few days or weeks, I get the 3x combo daily blessing and a couple of days ago, I played 30 or so RDS runs. Yesterday I got hooked onto a RDS game without the 3x and picked up 3 pinks. Nice! I couldn't see that anyone else got worse drops (nobody did better than me, I think). Didn't hurt anyone's chances.

Today I got no 3x combo and get booted or threatened when I try to enter RDS runs. I actually had one jerk come down from the plate and stand in front of me! What a turd-blossom!:peaceful:

Personally, I think it's BS. Let the better, higher level players in, restrict to 74 up, say or even 77. I don't care. THAT would make sense. Faster runs, more drops and better for anyone.

So, somebody please tell me what the idea is of not letting players in without the combo? Or am I missing something?

Because without the combo you are significantly weaker. Especially with Savage. However, full int mages and full dex birds with the best of the best gear plus a 3X Daily Blessing with chunk down the dragon much faster.

I am not saying that the person that boot you was right, but I see where they are coming from.

If they have elixirs paid with platinum, they do not want a slow-damaging fox on their team. They would rather prefer a nuke over a tank with no elixirs.

Just continue farming and do what you do. Haters gonna hate.

[TerryDarc]

XD - Tell me something I don't know.

[TerryDarc]

I hear what you're saying about speed.

I did not know you could buy 3x combo. Any three elixirs, you think?

When they want combo, is it more than just the daily blessing 3x? Like can I go to the store and spend (waste) plat on elixir and be let in?

[TerryDarc]

THAT I would like to see! Does he do Red Dragon and Konzite solo, too?:peaceful:

[TerryDarc]

Waiting wastes time so I think that's stupid, too.

[anahadaz]

Wasn't a helpful answer from any side

I think it was, he just explained how it's up to the host who he wants in his/her game, was a clearer answer than yours anyway. I havr never seen someone booted because they are a fox or a rhino, its all about gear and comboes

[TerryDarc]

Yeah and in my 9 months of playing, hosting many games, I've booted exactly two people for gross greed who headed off in their own direction on Victory Lap.

Mostly I think people boot for a) feeling of power + b) ignorance of what will make their game better. You can put a lock on the game, invite and admit only who you want. Why more hosts don't do that is beyond me. See a)

[Bazinga!]

TerryDarc,
First thing, stop posting multiple threads about the same event.

Secondly, this is how a Red Dragon Slayer host thinks. Anyone who's joined an RDS game is most probably farming for a starry garb,

not sure whether you have heard of it. It is extremely rare and takes multiple (100 +) runs to finally get one person in the whole party

of 5 to drop it. That could be 100 - 200 runs just for one person to get it. So you want to get a starry today and you want to complete

100 runs as soon as possible and you want the best team there is. Now lets look at you. A savage fox. That means horrible damage and

completely useless AoE. Most slayer hosts boot any class without a combo, let alone foxes. It just seems logical that he boots you.

A Slayer host thinks about how fast the runs can be done, not about whether you survive or not. Having you in his party would almost

be like being short of one player. Thats how much damage you can do as a STR Fox without an elixir.

[Ssneakykills]

Should of got swift set and used Phoenix bow snd farmed slayer

[Felicity]

Wasn't a helpful answer from any side

Enlighten me.

I told him why people boot him for not having a combo.

[Cavoc]

I've never seen someone get so worked up about pve. For your own sake, avoid pvp. Your head will probably explode. Oh and a secret- don't bother trying to bring logic into a conversation about pl. especially pvp. It will go absolutely no where.

[Basauli]

Why must people be so heartless to a fellow pocket legends player, tertydoc the booter has no sympathy towards others, and could care less about rudely booting but I wouldn't explain your situation here on the forums as it seems people sympathize with the bad person instead of the victim. I used to not like getting booted until I became 77 and got the second best gear. If they boot me I could care less as when I have the best set I would have need if nothing more

[Befs]

Why must people be so heartless to a fellow pocket legends player, tertydoc the booter has no sympathy towards others, and could care less about rudely booting but I wouldn't explain your situation here on the forums as it seems people sympathize with the bad person instead of the victim. I used to not like getting booted until I became 77 and got the second best gear. If they boot me I could care less as when I have the best set I would have need if nothing more

cry.


what have I come to...

[Eagleye]

It sucks dude but it's just the way it is...the people farming slayer look at it like this( well hey why keep this kid without a combo when we could have someone else in here who can put out 3x the damage) and also due to the lack of farming everyone always is itching to find a good slayer party and chances r that there's always gonna be someone with a combo to replace those who don't...just the way us endgame farmers think, u being a 76 I assume u would understand :/ simple solution tho if u don't have combo or plat get the 7k 5min 1.5combo

[Magic Sword]

Wasn't a helpful answer from any side

It was actually from both sides
His- don't get so worked up even if it's slightly annoying; Solution: host ur own
Host's- it's his game

[Covert]

Wasn't a helpful answer from any side

No felicity actually brings up a pretty solid point

[Iilhopeliliil]

Even if you do well, that doesn't mean the party does. Different people have different preferences, for a start, why not host your RDS game with a Plat bought elixir and see whether you want 5 tanks in your team.

[Draoscao]

D
I've only played since last Dec. 2014 and worked my way up. Got the very best crafted Savage Dragon armor for my 76 fox. Every few days or weeks, I get the 3x combo daily blessing and a couple of days ago, I played 30 or so RDS runs. Yesterday I got hooked onto a RDS game without the 3x and picked up 3 pinks. Nice! I couldn't see that anyone else got worse drops (nobody did better than me, I think). Didn't hurt anyone's chances.

Today I got no 3x combo and get booted or threatened when I try to enter RDS runs. I actually had one jerk come down from the plate and stand in front of me! What a turd-blossom!:peaceful:

Personally, I think it's BS. Let the better, higher level players in, restrict to 74 up, say or even 77. I don't care. THAT would make sense. Faster runs, more drops and better for anyone.

So, somebody please tell me what the idea is of not letting players in without the combo? Or am I missing something?

Full dex fox is the way on how to fox in pl
Foxes cant tank wel imo
Anyways see my guides about 77 fox and 76 fox

Should of got swift set and used Phoenix bow snd farmed slayer

Also true ����

[TerryDarc]

TerryDarc,
First thing, stop posting multiple threads about the same event.

Secondly, this is how a Red Dragon Slayer host thinks. Anyone who's joined an RDS game is most probably farming for a starry garb,

not sure whether you have heard of it. It is extremely rare and takes multiple (100 +) runs to finally get one person in the whole party

of 5 to drop it. That could be 100 - 200 runs just for one person to get it. So you want to get a starry today and you want to complete

100 runs as soon as possible and you want the best team there is. Now lets look at you. A savage fox. That means horrible damage and

completely useless AoE. Most slayer hosts boot any class without a combo, let alone foxes. It just seems logical that he boots you.

A Slayer host thinks about how fast the runs can be done, not about whether you survive or not. Having you in his party would almost

be like being short of one player. Thats how much damage you can do as a STR Fox without an elixir.

First, the incident seemed funny enuf that even a sourpuss like you might appreciate it.

Second, tell me what kind of stats I've got that you find so deficient: 304 armor so I don't get killed there very often and can stick around to inflict damage
425 DPS which of the toons I've looked at who aren't afraid to share, seems pretty decent.

Third, I have NO idea where you get the idea that a STR fox (actiually a hybrid) can inflict no damage? Are you a developer? If not, you have no idea. None.

[Groaning]

First, the incident seemed funny enuf that even a sourpuss like you might appreciate it.

Second, tell me what kind of stats I've got that you find so deficient: 304 armor so I don't get killed there very often and can stick around to inflict damage
425 DPS which of the toons I've looked at who aren't afraid to share, seems pretty decent.

Third, I have NO idea where you get the idea that a STR fox (actiually a hybrid) can inflict no damage? Are you a developer? If not, you have no idea. None.

they inflict next to no damage compared to dex birds int mages and dex bears
strs bears out tanks/ damage you
rhinos can buff the whole team and can heal
mages have aoe which you have two both which suck
birds do 100000x more damage
and dex foxes can output twice the dps
and with 3x most of the classes (other than rhino) can do more than 5x how much damage you do

[Suentous PO]

First, the incident seemed funny enuf that even a sourpuss like you might appreciate it.

Second, tell me what kind of stats I've got that you find so deficient: 304 armor so I don't get killed there very often and can stick around to inflict damage
425 DPS which of the toons I've looked at who aren't afraid to share, seems pretty decent.

Third, I have NO idea where you get the idea that a STR fox (actiually a hybrid) can inflict no damage? Are you a developer? If not, you have no idea. None.

It's easy to mistake dps for damage. General rule for bosses is - damage>dps. Most bosses have high armor and sometimes temporary invulnerability.
Dps is reduced by armor first before damage is taken reducing the true effectiveness.


they inflict next to no damage compared to dex birds int mages and dex bears
strs bears out tanks/ damage you
rhinos can buff the whole team and can heal
mages have aoe which you have two both which suck
birds do 100000x more damage
and dex foxes can output twice the dps
and with 3x most of the classes (other than rhino) can do more than 5x how much damage you do

^ that
Even if that dps hit a nude boss, a geared birds lowest unbuffed damage is more

[garou498]

as u said, u dont really need combo to farm slayer. Yes people 74- are not very helpful without combo

[Iheybeautiful]

Lol stop crying about it already.

[Groaning]

as u said, u dont really need combo to farm slayer. Yes people 74- are not very helpful without combo

people can do slayer at l74 OMG never knew dis

[Magic Sword]

fox's main use is a quick attack which can make em fun in pvp but they are truly next to useless in pvp sry :c

[Befs]

fox's main use is a quick attack which can make em fun in pvp but they are truly next to useless in pvp sry :c

Wait what?
..

[Amozite]

If you want to get accepted into good slayer runs as fox, I'd advise using swift set over savage. You shouldn't need to tank in slayer if your group has at least 2 mages that know what their doing and can keep the party alive. I have played using both savage and swift bow set in RDS, from experience a fox is far more useful with swift man.

[Loganayr]

Your problem is that you insist on playing slayer as a savage fox without actually questioning yourself about how useful you are in a party. I will sum ot up:
1) the purpose of slayer is to farm gold. The faster the better.
2) fast means killing in the least possible time. Nobody cares that you arent getting killed with your savage. What they care for is: is this guy useful to our party? Answer : no. You dont die but you deal close to no damage. Your hit rating as a savage fox is not high enough, and your crit and base damage is low. Even with a 3x combo most parties will rightfully kick you because with savage on 3x you deal less overall damage than a bird with no combo (if you consider the addition to mage damage through roots)
3: if you do like pve, why dont you just learn and use a swift set? There's nothing worse than people who doesnt WANT to learn when more experienced players try to help.
4: if you play your fox correctly (swift and learn to wall the dragon if you are the highest dps and have aggro) you will be welcome and do wonders.

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[TerryDarc]

they inflict next to no damage compared to dex birds int mages and dex bears
strs bears out tanks/ damage you
rhinos can buff the whole team and can heal
mages have aoe which you have two both which suck
birds do 100000x more damage
and dex foxes can output twice the dps
and with 3x most of the classes (other than rhino) can do more than 5x how much damage you do

I'm curious. What stat SHOULD I be looking at if not DPS?

Birds do 100,000x the damage? Get out of here!

[Suentous PO]

I'm curious. What stat SHOULD I be looking at if not DPS?

Birds do 100,000x the damage? Get out of here!

Like I said, look at your damage range, that's more important than dps. Your highest possible dps is lower than a geared dex birds lowest damage range.

Rough stats
............Fox in savage...............geared up bow bird
Damage.....348-368............................ 442- 482
Dps................421............................ ..... 660

Your average is more like 360, and the bird is closer to 460

Dps is an abstract of you always hitting something unarmored. Dps is good to consider for mobs, but bosses have good armor that subtracts from that, and that's not taking into account rds' trick of making you target randoms and be unable briefly to target him when he lands after jumps.

[Groaning]

I'm curious. What stat SHOULD I be looking at if not DPS?

Birds do 100,000x the damage? Get out of here!

thats the point your using savage which has no damage compared to a swift fox
on top of that you don't have have a combo that 1.5-3x the damage gone
the 100000 is a emphasis on how little damage you do

birds have break = more damage for the rest of the team
birds have root = less dodges from the mobs
birds might have higher shatter = even more armor decrease
birds also have the second best combo (most damaging i think tho) and on top of that its aoe it hits the mobs its summon
on top of that they have a 3x which makes them do like 19378476438267382638x more damage then a savage behr
and if they have lust bow/2pc/3pc all the merrier

admit it foxes do next to no damage next to birds

[Loganayr]

I'm curious. What stat SHOULD I be looking at if not DPS?

Birds do 100,000x the damage? Get out of here!

If you read my previous post you can get an unbiased idea.

The fox hate is quite common in pve, but it's mainly due to most foxes going savage in pve, which is not a good asset.

I'll resummarize to give you a clear idea:

Your damage is based on raw BASE DAMAGE. The DPS is the damage per second dealt by the weapon with autoattack. Since you will use skills 90% of the time you are fighting, the dps doesn't matter. Skills are based off the base damage, the higher the better. However, this is not the only main stat you look at when you are looking at a pve damage char. You must put into account HIT RATING and Crit. Hit rating is actually one of the most important stats for pve output damage, because in this game 100% hit is VERY LOW. You can see this by yourself by hosting any bsm map and look at mobs avoiding almost half your attacks as a savage fox.

In conclusion if you go savage in slayer, your attacks will miss a lot, (your crits too, that are already low in % as savage), your hits will hit for low damage due to the lower base damage, and unfortunately you won't be helping in multiclass combos.

HOWEVER: it is true that lacking roots and other skills necessary for interclass combos you aren't adding much to other classes damage output, however i can assure you that if you learn how to play a full dex fox you can get on par and even outdamage some birds on a single target like red dragon. Fox has 2 solo combos with very fast cooldown; i myself have both bird and fox at 77 and i am a pve fanatic, so i know what i am talking about. However to actually play it correctly you will also need to learn how to keep dragon against wall since in dex asset you WILL have aggro on dragon and if you don't play it right it will either go into lava or will make you go back to corner periodically(which is most pve noob foxes do).

If you want to see how it's done add me ingame :)

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[Amozite]

Here's some food for thought:
My 76 fox, 157 str and the rest in dex. With a swift bow set + blue ring equipped my damage is 420-460. Keep in mind the fox has an attack buff, so buffed I would do 470-510. Compared to damage in the 300s swift pumps out more dmg. Also, a full dex build would give even more damage with the sacrifice of defence.

[Groaning]

Actually foxes have 3 solo combos
Rabid ham then rabid vixen then ham

Four if you count the extra combo if you use dagger (strike through)

And you call yourself a skilled fox...

Another point when you say "mobs dodge half your Attack with savage"
Dodge isn't based off how much hit you have... Or birds would never hit
Another point foxes have a +90% hit buff giving it almost 200 hit ....

[Loganayr]

I think the guy has already enough confusion for you to put other stuff in. The 3 fox combos are alternate so it's basically 2 you can pull out every X time. As for dodge, i am talking of dodging attacks in pve. The higher the hit, the less the mobs can dodge you. Dodge means they avoid being hit, learn english, and learn pve, you basically told the guy a fox can't pve at high levels, which is only true if he wears savage.
Last but not least, the hit rating skill means losing lots of precious points in the other skills, and it's totally unnecessary if you are geared correctly.
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[End]

Int fox maybe?

[Groaning]

"The higher the hit, the less the mobs can dodge you"

this as far as I'm concerned doesnt apply, or birds would never miss, dodge and hit are two separate things

as for combos i can do all three in around 10 secs ish (if I'm wrong correct me haven't played fox for a while)

following your untrue theory of "The higher the hit, the less the mobs can dodge you" wouldn't max fury = less dodge = more hits = more damage??

i never said "you basically told the guy a fox can't pve at high levels"

i am simply saying that any other class/ set that the fox can use other than str sets, outputs more damage

[Befs]

"The higher the hit, the less the mobs can dodge you"

this as far as I'm concerned doesnt apply, or birds would never miss, dodge and hit are two separate things

as for combos i can do all three in around 10 secs ish (if I'm wrong correct me haven't played fox for a while)

following your untrue theory of "The higher the hit, the less the mobs can dodge you" wouldn't max fury = less dodge = more hits = more damage??

i never said "you basically told the guy a fox can't pve at high levels"

i am simply saying that any other class/ set that the fox can use other than str sets, outputs more damage

Groan is correct.

Hit and dodge are separate variables.

Hit determines the % of time out of 100 that you will miss

The mobs' dodge has nothing to do with hit, Otherwise birds wouldn't get rekt by 60% dodge bears, because birds get like 200 hit while buffed

[Loganayr]

@Groan: honestly your first reply to the fox of this topic was sounding like the typical bird bulling on foxes, that's why my reply. Considering this game is getting less and less new players i think that any new comer is very precious. If the newcomer picks a less pve viable class like fox or rhino, the reaction of old gen players should be of welcome and teaching how to optimize it rather than just giving him the "your class is trash" kind of reply.

As for hit and dodge, basically we're saying the same but what i was trying to tell the guy is that,in pve at least, your damage output takes in account hit/dodge base damage and crit. You can't look at hit or dodge separately.If you reach 100% hit and go forest haven you can see you don't miss, however in bsm the mobs can dodge through their dodge stat but the higher you gear on hit the less you will miss. I'm pretty sure of this mechanic, and afterall it wouldn't make sense raising hit rating to more than 100% if it wasn't for overcoming misses due to target stats. I remember also seeing long ago a post in AL forums saying in that game it applies differently in pve and pvp, i guess it's the same here.

As for combo,just look at rhino: charge + redemption pulls out the same combo as summon+redemption but you can't consider them 2 different combos.

It's also true that fury lets you raise hit dramatically but that really helps only if you are str geared, if you are full dex you will just not need the hit boost from fury that gives you lots of skill points to use on more useful skills. When i first capped my fox i was about to give it up since i was used to bird that's definitely easier to play but than i found out a viable play style for fox too,it hurts fingers much but it works.

Anyway as a matter of fact the topic's op asked for help and in 5 pages of replies there's just half a dozen posts telling him to go full dex and enjoy his class.

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[Groaning]

@Groan: honestly your first reply to the fox of this topic was sounding like the typical bird bulling on foxes, that's why my reply. Considering this game is getting less and less new players i think that any new comer is very precious. If the newcomer picks a less pve viable class like fox or rhino, the reaction of old gen players should be of welcome and teaching how to optimize it rather than just giving him the "your class is trash" kind of reply.

As for hit and dodge, basically we're saying the same but what i was trying to tell the guy is that,in pve at least, your damage output takes in account hit/dodge base damage and crit. You can't look at hit or dodge separately.If you reach 100% hit and go forest haven you can see you don't miss, however in bsm the mobs can dodge through their dodge stat but the higher you gear on hit the less you will miss. I'm pretty sure of this mechanic, and afterall it wouldn't make sense raising hit rating to more than 100% if it wasn't for overcoming misses due to target stats. I remember also seeing long ago a post in AL forums saying in that game it applies differently in pve and pvp, i guess it's the same here.

As for combo,just look at rhino: charge + redemption pulls out the same combo as summon+redemption but you can't consider them 2 different combos.

It's also true that fury lets you raise hit dramatically but that really helps only if you are str geared, if you are full dex you will just not need the hit boost from fury that gives you lots of skill points to use on more useful skills. When i first capped my fox i was about to give it up since i was used to bird that's definitely easier to play but than i found out a viable play style for fox too,it hurts fingers much but it works.

Anyway as a matter of fact the topic's op asked for help and in 5 pages of replies there's just half a dozen posts telling him to go full dex and enjoy his class.

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it is untrue, i was just stating that as a str fox you don't apply as much damage as any other class, recommending him to go sex

i do not consider the one combo as two different one but i do consider summon + hellscream = terror vs weakness and hellscream = terror as two different combos

on that topic foxes have THREE SEPERATE COMBOS they all have different combo names,

i stole this from timelife: Rabit bite + Hamstring = Slam + Rabit bite + Vixen kick = Knock-Out+ Hamstring = Burried THREE SEPERATE COMBOS

now left me ask you this, when you have a bird in your party ham/break becomes useless why not (if str fox) invest the extra points in ham into fury to get to 120+ hit at the least, on the other hand ham barely adds any damage if any to your combos.

as for the hit thing i don't believe thats true, somewhere Physiologic said there was a 80-90 is hit cap
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?16817-Guide-to-Advanced-Mechanics-in-PL-DPS-Crits-etc.
read you, you need it

if the same concept applies then it shouldn't effect what level you or what level set you use

[Loganayr]

Groan, again, my posts are based off my testing and experience.I've been a pve only player since 2011, i disagree on some of the elements on that guide simply because i made the testing myself and got different conclusions on some of the points. Out of output testing i can tell that in a full boss fight having others skills maxed in place of fury ends up giving more overall damage than having those seconds maxed in fury. If you want to understand why and how, just take your fox and do the tests yourself and you will see. I don't see any reason to keep pointing out my views since obviously you don't share it :)

EDIT: i was looking at the thread you linked, i remember i used to rely much on it back in 2011.I think maybe you should reread it since back in 2011 he was smart enough to find out already how dodge and hit are a mixed algorythm. Of course for hit capping (if there really is one) the values are totally different now on the current pl update.

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[AppleNoob]

Groan, again, my posts are based off my testing and experience.I've been a pve only player since 2011, i disagree on some of the elements on that guide simply because i made the testing myself and got different conclusions on some of the points. Out of output testing i can tell that in a full boss fight having others skills maxed in place of fury ends up giving more overall damage than having those seconds maxed in fury. If you want to understand why and how, just take your fox and do the tests yourself and you will see. I don't see any reason to keep pointing out my views since obviously you don't share it :)

EDIT: i was looking at the thread you linked, i remember i used to rely much on it back in 2011.I think maybe you should reread it since back in 2011 he was smart enough to find out already how dodge and hit are a mixed algorythm. Of course for hit capping (if there really is one) the values are totally different now on the current pl update.

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Show us your "test" results. I personally don't believe in the fact that you tested the variables.

More so, the values are the same. Space-time Games has no reason to change the core logic of the game itself.

[Loganayr]

It's not even needed to remake tests apple, if you read the guide he already realized back than that hit and dodge work toghether but also noticed that after a certain boost in hit the tests weren't giving a 1:1 result anymore (just simplyfying as it's never 1:1 anyway). He thought the answer was a hit cap, he had made tests with sentinel and other 50 sets back than. Of course today it's unchanged but if you do the tests yourself you obviously will come out with different results with current sets and end game mobs.

Also, to those believing to the hit cap theory, maxing fury on a dex fox would be useless obviously. Basically the thread groaning linked is confirming what i was telling to the thread's op since the very beginning.

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[Groaning]

It's not even needed to remake tests apple, if you read the guide he already realized back than that hit and dodge work toghether but also noticed that after a certain boost in hit the tests weren't giving a 1:1 result anymore (just simplyfying as it's never 1:1 anyway). He thought the answer was a hit cap, he had made tests with sentinel and other 50 sets back than. Of course today it's unchanged but if you do the tests yourself you obviously will come out with different results with current sets and end game mobs.

Also, to those believing to the hit cap theory, maxing fury on a dex fox would be useless obviously. Basically the thread groaning linked is confirming what i was telling to the thread's op since the very beginning.

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May I ask two things?
A) Test results (I trust befs more than you)
B) who's your fox

[Magic Sword]

foxes have no hit debuff like bears mages and bird or even rhinos, which greatly helps the whole teams survivability, as well as almost no aoe dmg which again is extremely useful vs the mobs there. They dont have a team heal like mages and rhinos either so logically foxes are the worst class to have in that map

the stat tests and stat algorithm threads he is talking about were done by physiologic back at the 50 cap i believe, there is no longer a hit cap obviously, and despite what people say hit% over 100% does not subtract off the opponents dodge. I had a few people tell me that. It's just luck, why spacetime would base the primary defense in the game off a stat based entirely on luck, thats another discussion.

[Cavoc]

Str rhinos are the class for you if you like dps

[Groaning]

Str rhinos are the class for you if you like dps

*giving other people dps

[Befs]

[QUOTE=Loganayr;2271116]It's not even needed to remake tests apple, if you read the guide he already realized back than that hit and dodge work toghether but also noticed that after a certain boost in hit the tests weren't giving a 1:1 result anymore (just simplyfying as it's never 1:1 anyway). He thought the answer was a hit cap, he had made tests with sentinel and other 50 sets back than. Of course today it's unchanged but if you do the tests yourself you obviously will come out with different results with current sets and end game mobs.

First. You did no such tests, because if u did, then you would have realized that fury lvl 1 adds a damage buff.

Second. Stop making guesses based off something u read in another games' forums, base off facts.

Third. Proof of 2011 pls

[Loganayr]

Befs i dont know you and but if you dont recognize me from forum name than you dont as well since my main is a bird named loganayreon. Also, if you enjoy trying to act bull with the few friends of yours still active on this dead forum asking tests or implying that i dont play since 2011 you only succeed in derailing this thread that probably already turned away from the game one of the few new players that tried a fox. If you want to see my guides just google my name, they are on my guild's private forums, i even made a slayer guide long ago, not sure if it's indexed on google.

Now my turn to ask:have you actually ever farmed slayer more than a few hundred times with all chars, included fox? I think not since you are probably a pvp player and since you dont seem to see the amount of wrong info that were given out in this thread. You think a 5 base damage increase from fury1 with no other benefit makes a difference? It's probably debatable, i think not anyway. Got any idea of how walling a dragon works with a fox?

I'd love to see all your foxes play slayer lol. That would probably make my day :)

I dont see reason to keep debating with trolls anyway. If someone wants to see how it's done just look me up in game ;-)

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[Groaning]

i could probably play fox better than you
secondly i dont think any of us recognize you
why farm slayer when you can pvp?

[Loganayr]

There's still a big community of players doing pve only and being addicted to pinks and gold. Those are the ones who should help newbs on pve. There's no doubt you can pvp better but as long as pve goes, considering your replies, it's not your thing ;-)

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[Befs]

There's still a big community of players doing pve only and being addicted to pinks and gold. Those are the ones who should help newbs on pve. There's no doubt you can pvp better but as long as pve goes, considering your replies, it's not your thing ;-)

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Wait u can tell I PvP because I post about illuminati?

[Cavoc]

Guide to playing slayer.
Boot up pc. Log into pl.
join a slayer game. Spam []
No further questions.

[Communion]

I've never seen someone get so worked up about pve. For your own sake, avoid pvp. Your head will probably explode. Oh and a secret- don't bother trying to bring logic into a conversation about pl. especially pvp. It will go absolutely no where.

WUT!
Fine! That's your opinion, but the reason pvp is created is to have fun and talk to online players who probably might kill you if they say you in real life... ( jk )
Putting logic into conversations actually does work, or at least for the players im close to, but now quit PL, almost like me.

[Communion]

Wait u can tell I PvP because I post about illuminati?

xD

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