PDA

View Full Version : PvP is difficult to balance because of HYBRIDS !!



King Richie
05-29-2010, 09:24 AM
Hybrids are destroying this game making it unplayable to the classic character and forcing them to spend plat to respec to the new OVERPOWERED set up !

Its getting ridiculous ... First .. The BOWBEAR my most hated of them all like its ridiculous how powerful these things are ive seen them rip through my whole team with only rage and iron blood on not even using aggressive spells !!

Second ... The CLEVER BIRDY ... in what way dose it make sense that the bird with a doll and wand is stronger than a bird with a bow or talon with wing shield.... these are only new and ive already seen loads of my friends respecing to it !!

Lastly The PALADIN ... Mage with sword ... comon that elf dosent even look like it can lift a staff let alone i giant sword !! combine that with mana shield .. Ice thing and there Nuke and they can kill the whole enemy team if they run in to the group !

Weapons need to be class specific .. atleast in PvP let people mess about in PvE but the minute it comes to PvP the only way this will ever be fair is to have the weapons class specific meaning only bears can use 2hs and 1hs .. only avians can use bows xbows and talons .. only enchantresses can use wands and staffs


Please people support this and hoefully the devs might make the weapons class specific !

Dizko
05-29-2010, 09:27 AM
Can confirm clever birdy. Myself, Richie and Ajeje just tested it. Everytime the bird with the wand killed us, a bow bird and a talon bird.

King Richie
05-29-2010, 09:29 AM
Clever birdy is unstoppable and its the same with bow bears like there like steam rollers they just mow u down

KronicDecay
05-29-2010, 09:39 AM
Funny because i find it fun to actually have a challenge. It might take my
pure dex archer some running around to regen while using thorns to slow the bear down but i can still kill them, i however have not encountered a clever bird or the sword weilding enchantresses yet so
i cant say i agree or disagree with everything until ive had the opportunity to face the other two yet.

King Richie
05-29-2010, 09:41 AM
be ready lol

haroldiv
05-29-2010, 09:58 AM
Wow.... Sounds like somebody needs a hug.

King Richie
05-29-2010, 09:59 AM
i really do harold !! but they really are getting ridiculous !

haroldiv
05-29-2010, 10:06 AM
Lol remember when u laughed at by wand bird? I need to say right now and i challenge anyone to disagree. That was all me. Within 24 hours of repecing I saw 5 more. I can't take credit for the name clever birdy tho, that's awesome whoever came up with that.

Dude to be honest I don't think I would be playing this game right now if it weren't for hybrids. They make up for the lack of classes. If it was just 3 it would be so boring. Pure dex archers have always been the most dangerous one shotters, u are just used to raping in pvp and now u can't as much. If anything "ruins" pvp now it's warrior bears lol. The only thing that has a chance of taking them down solo is a clever birdy!

King Richie
05-29-2010, 10:09 AM
I came up with the name clever birdy while making this thread =)

Banned
05-29-2010, 10:40 AM
The devs have already stated that they aren't removing hybrids. They want us to have as much class building freedom as possible so you might as well quit this anti-hybrid ralley. Hybrids make the game alot more intresting, maybe you should look into making one.

I take credit for creating the first str based birdy btw.

King Richie
05-29-2010, 10:45 AM
They really need to balance them somehow to make them weaker than what a classic character would be like

Banned
05-29-2010, 10:48 AM
They really need to balance them somehow to make them weaker than what a classic character would be like

They aren't unbalanced because they aren't classes. Trying to balance a bow bear, clever birdy, or a paladin will just screw up the real classes. Would you want that? No, I don't think so.

King Richie
05-29-2010, 10:52 AM
ah good way i think is make pink items class specific !

Banned
05-29-2010, 10:54 AM
ah good way i think is make pink items class specific !

Like I said before, not gonna happen. And if it somehow did, alot of people are going to be pissed to no end.

Xanthia
05-29-2010, 10:57 AM
I have been saying this since before PvP even came out, and it is completely true, the game will never be even as long as players are allowed to wear cross armor and weapons. We will be making a LONG LONG LONG post in the next two days that will address how players will still be able to "customization" of your class even with them wearing the same armor and equip the same weapons.

Banned
05-29-2010, 11:06 AM
I have been saying this since before PvP even came out, and it is completely true, the game will never be even as long as players are allowed to wear cross armor and weapons. We will be making a LONG LONG LONG post in the next two days that will address how players will still be able to "customization" of your class even with them wearing the same armor and equip the same weapons.

Pointless because it's not gonna happen. Justg has already said to "Go crazy" with the builds. The majority of us like hybrids, it's a great way to experiment with the classes.

Xanthia
05-29-2010, 11:23 AM
Ehh, there are much better ways to "Go crazy" that will make the game fair, however crossing armor and weapons is not fair at all, it would not be plausible. However, our post in a few days will explain it, and I know that you will like the idea. It will allow for every player complete customization. 100x more than is possible now, however you have to wear your class armor and weapons.

Royce
05-29-2010, 11:26 AM
I suggested this in another thread, but I would love to see the current "classes" which are really races, turned into such, and then have class added as another layer. It would add complexity, allowing for more unique character types, and also allow for more balance I think.

Xanthia
05-29-2010, 11:35 AM
Royce, look our for Venom's post in 2 days, it hits that really hard, you will really like what we have coming. I completely agree with you!!! :)

Synozeer
05-29-2010, 12:33 PM
I think it would add more variety and rewards for the "pure bloods" if there were very good items that were class specific. That is, a really good sword that requires the usual STR score and must be a bear, or a bow that uses DEX and must be a bird. These would be a bit better than the regular non-class specific versions, and pink/purple. I think it would help reward those who stay true to to their calling and give them at least one type of benefit over hybrids. And this would open up a whole bunch of new things you could do with weapons.

Oooh, that gives me another idea. Weapons that require MULTIPLE stats. How about a Longbow that requires both a minimum DEX and STR to use. The bow requires a certain strength just to be able to pull it back. And you could have swords the same way, or armor, etc. How about Silver Armor of the Magi, requiring a minimum STR to be able to wear it and obviously a certain INT to be able to use it. Imagine the possibilities, and mix that with the class specific stuff too for even more variety.

Edatx
05-29-2010, 12:48 PM
The thing wrong with clever birds (lol nice name) and even clever bears is they equip mojo wands and get a free enchantress debuff as a proc. Where are the swords that proc bear skills and bows that proc bird skills?

haroldiv
05-29-2010, 01:11 PM
You do bring up a very good point but they already do. Archers have freeze bow, and warriors have nightmare 2hs. Make use of these intelligently like clever birds and u will be set. Sucks for archers cause there is only lvl 30 freeze stuff.

If a bear whacked me with nightmare while trying to take him down he would win.

Royce
05-29-2010, 01:20 PM
You do bring up a very good point but they already do. Archers have freeze bow, and warriors have nightmare 2hs. Make use of these intelligently like clever birds and u will be set. Sucks for archers cause there is only lvl 30 freeze stuff.

Don't forget about the stunning hammers and armor breaking tridents. Bears have all the procs they need. I don't know if there are many for xbows besides freeze though.

Diz
05-29-2010, 01:22 PM
Wow, some of you people really REALLY like Rock / Paper / Scissors, don't you?

Aerospacegod
05-29-2010, 01:30 PM
I have to agree with Synozeer. Cross builds are what make the game interesting. Nothing wrong with having some items that are bear warrior specific, avian archer specific, and mage specific. This would add complexity as well as they could add a while new dimension.

Maybe even make them have special features like a mage weapon that increases everyone in the party 1h/s. Archer weapon increases everyone's chance to dodge by 5%. Warrior gear that makes everyone in the group have more armor.

Dizko
05-29-2010, 01:43 PM
Just make it that when quests come out - they are race specific and reward the best untradable items.

Problem Solved

Sayishere
05-29-2010, 01:44 PM
i must admit im using the clever bird spec atm, i personally dont mind using pure dex gear like just the bow or talon but it really is boring seriously, i like the variety in the hybrids atm, it may not be balanced but the devs can do slight balance changes to make it fair, but tbh, i was fighting this pure dex archer with my clever bird and he killed me each time (im hardly good anyway so :P)

but yea i personally think dont get rid of hybrids because theres a lack of classes atm, 3 gets tiresome but the devs should balance the bybrids if the case may be

you seriously shouldnt take the pvp in this game seriously, its just for fun, noone likes dieing but, the pvp and this game in general is in its early stages

PvP
05-29-2010, 02:32 PM
I rarely agree with threads like these, but this one I will agree with. I don't like hybrids, especially the bow bear. They were built to be played in their natural state, but they turn out to be more powerful in a different one. I hope this eventually gets fixed.

Aerospacegod
05-29-2010, 02:58 PM
Easy solution: Crossbreeds allowed, pure breeds get an automatic 10% boost for their own items.

Example:
Bowbear 100dps
Archer same items & stats 110dps

Azrael
05-29-2010, 02:59 PM
The only reason wand bird and bowbear are sonstrong is because rage and focus are too strong. These two skills define pvp on every level. It's not even the damage buff so much as the fact that you know you won't miss.

Banned
05-29-2010, 03:11 PM
Easy solution: Crossbreeds allowed, pure breeds get an automatic 10% boost for their own items.

Example:
Bowbear 100dps
Archer same items & stats 110dps

Good solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Most of this is in complaint to the bow bear. The REAL problem is the fact that Warriors are extremely overpowered, like I have been saying for a while now.

Sayishere
05-29-2010, 03:32 PM
The only reason wand bird and bowbear are sonstrong is because rage and focus are too strong. These two skills define pvp on every level. It's not even the damage buff so much as the fact that you know you won't miss.

these buffs are a problem just because the health points of our characters are so so low, damage buffs are all find and dandy but the amount of damage each class can do is way to much for our characters to withstand, i even tried stacking dodge on my archer and that hardly worked in reducing the damage

i do agree some sort of lowering down of the damage from damage buffs is needed or more defense modifiers need to be implemented, or just more health

on the note of wand birds and bears, the wand bird isnt as OP as a bow bear imo, tbh warriors in general have the upper hand, this is why u see so many of them in PVP, theres a reason....

wand bird doesnt provide any extra defense that say a talon bird, the damage is better with wands but slower, i think it has to do with the extra debuff the wand gets, which i think is a armour debuff one (not sure) that should be removed, also the H/S is a bit to much if you use doll and wand also, thats the only thing i can see thats overpowering, please tell me what else im missing. pure dex archers have the advantage of faster attack speed and more damage due to more dex (and more range if you use crossbow)

even with bow bear, i dont mind them, they take more damage than a shield bear so im fine with it, i notice though they do alot of the death blowing so they get the kills, i dont know what contributes to this, if someone can tell me, i would be grateful, i must level up a warrior to understand the class fully

haroldiv
05-29-2010, 04:06 PM
Lol! That is the biggest problem. People not understanding other classes and complaining. All 3 classes now have EPIC dmg and hit and crit increasing buffs now. If any of these classes hits that then all of their skills u can 1 shot everyone but warriors.

There is not a single class right now that played by an idiot has a large advantage over another. I love getting beaten by people who deserve to win! Komodori for example has found a great strategy with tons of dodge gear. I love fighting him. He is one of the hardest warriors to take down and it is rewarding when u do.

Azrael
05-30-2010, 10:55 AM
hybrid archer is getting particularly stupid.

Its just dumb that a 2 handed weapon is boosting long range skill attacks in particular. Shots are benefiting from the huge top end damage of the 2h blades. We knew it would be effective awhile ago, but its simply makes no sense.

The more i experiment with hybrid builds, and yea i've tried the 2h archer, the more i'm starting to think its ruining the game. Full write up to come.

The real solution to all of this is to just nerf the hybrid system entirely, and implement 2-3 more classes, and a skill tree system that would allow certain classes to spec different equipment types that what they normally wear.

Edatx
05-30-2010, 11:28 AM
Its just dumb that a 2 handed weapon is boosting long range skill attacks in particular. Shots are benefiting from the huge top end damage of the 2h blades. We knew it would be effective awhile ago, but its simply makes no sense.

The more i experiment with hybrid builds, and yea i've tried the 2h archer, the more i'm starting to think its ruining the game. Full write up to come.

The real solution to all of this is to just nerf the hybrid system entirely, and implement 2-3 more classes, and a skill tree system that would allow certain classes to spec different equipment types that what they normally wear.

This makes a lot of sense. Maybe instead the solution should be that Slash skills and Shot skills should require a Sword or Bow respectively.

Diz
05-30-2010, 11:31 AM
Regarding "adding classes to fix class balance" -

I dunno if implementing new classes is wise without refining these 3 for the long-term. Maybe if they balance these three first then they could add more but without balancing these first, it'd be even sloppier than it already is.

Pleasure_Pirate
05-30-2010, 11:33 AM
Personally, I don't believe the hybrid classes are ideal for anything other than PvP. Playing a bow bear or a bow mage in PvE, you will quickly run out of mana. The bow bird has meditation for a reason, most importantly to offset low mana regen of DEX gear.
However, popping pots will offset the mana problem of the bow mage and bow bear...
The solution is possibly a cool down on pots. It is say 2-3 secs for normal build, and higher for hybrids, like 15 secs. Not a nerf, but a temporary solution, until more classes can be implemented, like Azrael said. Hybrids partially arose out of the fact that there isn't a lot of class choice in this game right now.
Don't nerf the ability of classes to put points in different areas, just the ability of them to wield different weapons than was originally intended.

flaimdude
05-30-2010, 02:35 PM
Mage + lvl5 Buffs/Debuffs/AoE = pwnage. Especially since they up'd the buffs now so that crit and armor are ++'d.

FriedSushi
05-30-2010, 02:39 PM
well, if those hybrids are better than the rest, why dont you take whatever character you have and turn it into a hybrid? its not like youre not allowed to make one

FriedSushi
05-30-2010, 02:41 PM
hybrid archer is getting particularly stupid.

Its just dumb that a 2 handed weapon is boosting long range skill attacks in particular. Shots are benefiting from the huge top end damage of the 2h blades. We knew it would be effective awhile ago, but its simply makes no sense.

The more i experiment with hybrid builds, and yea i've tried the 2h archer, the more i'm starting to think its ruining the game. Full write up to come.

The real solution to all of this is to just nerf the hybrid system entirely, and implement 2-3 more classes, and a skill tree system that would allow certain classes to spec different equipment types that what they normally wear.

Wait, if you are an archer, and u use 2h swords, blast shot works from a distance? THAT should definiteily be removed

haroldiv
05-30-2010, 03:35 PM
Lol, conceptually yes except sword birds are the absolute worst pvp class.

Sayishere
05-30-2010, 03:55 PM
Wait, if you are an archer, and u use 2h swords, blast shot works from a distance? THAT should definiteily be removed

i never knew that, i have seen a few 2 hander birds now, if thats the case that should be nerfed yup

btw i fought some good people and lost to them, this one mage in particular is very good, im telling you people should invest less time complaining and just have fun and try and find ways to beat others imo.

Banned
05-30-2010, 04:23 PM
Wait, if you are an archer, and u use 2h swords, blast shot works from a distance? THAT should definiteily be removed

That would screw over dagger archers soooo... no.

Dizko
05-30-2010, 04:41 PM
That would screw over dagger archers soooo... no.

Do you throw these daggers, kind sir?

Banned
05-30-2010, 04:49 PM
Do you throw these daggers, kind sir?

Talons. And also, if you noticed, the blash shot animation is an arrow being thrown so I assume it's meant to be like that.

Just stop with the nerfing bull guys, it's becoming really frustrating. I am tired of seeing all these complaints, it's starting to ruin the game for me. The whole thing has basically turned into a giant nerf convention. What's good for one person isn't always good for everyone else.

Justg
05-30-2010, 09:08 PM
Hybrids are something that make the game very flexible and enable you to play in a wide variety of ways. PvP is brand-new and going to take awhile to find its best form. Be patient and keep offering constructive feedback. Btw I fixed that thread title for ya :)

Banned
05-30-2010, 09:45 PM
Hybrids are something that make the game very flexible and enable you to play in a wide variety of ways. PvP is brand-new and going to take awhile to find its best form. Be patient and keep offering constructive feedback. Btw I fixed that thread title for ya :)

I am extremely glad to hear you say that.

Ogediah
05-31-2010, 10:26 PM
Removing hybrids is not the answer.

EDIT: posted without reading the whole thread... I ban myself for such a noob move.

Azrael
06-01-2010, 09:07 AM
Lol, conceptually yes except sword birds are the absolute worst pvp class.

They are actually quite nasty burst damage with 2h. Probably top 3 in classes. Allowing armor hybriding is one thing, but letting any weapon work with skills regardless of range is wrong on so many levels.

As long as unrestricted hybrids are in the game, class combat will never be balanced and PvP will never be taken seriously. I'm always checking to see what games are running in pvp at level 35. Most of the time there are no games, and when there is one or two games, there are about 4-5 people playing. The lack of popularity in pvp speaks for itself.

Edit: that said, the cooldown buff situation is the most troubling aspect of pvp.

Hraefn
06-01-2010, 09:20 AM
Lag is what causes me to stay away from PvP, not the lack of balance.

Azrael
06-01-2010, 09:37 AM
Lag is what causes me to stay away from PvP, not the lack of balance.

most people don't lag. Try wifi. If your latency is over 300, its your connection, not the game. You should experience more lag in pve with 5 players and all the mobs, than a pvp match thats 2 on 2.

Sayishere
06-01-2010, 09:41 AM
most people don't lag. Try wifi. If your latency is over 300, its your connection, not the game. You should experience more lag in pve with 5 players and all the mobs, than a pvp match thats 2 on 2.

2 on 2 is fine, the 5 on 5 gets horrible slow down for me!

SlipperyJim
06-01-2010, 09:52 AM
Personally, I don't believe the hybrid classes are ideal for anything other than PvP. Playing a bow bear or a bow mage in PvE, you will quickly run out of mana. The bow bird has meditation for a reason, most importantly to offset low mana regen of DEX gear.
Mamboza's Croc Scale Leather. Get some. :)

I had Mamboza's Croc Scale Leather for my archer, but I'm playing a straight-up Avian Archer, so it wasn't useful for me. Meditation takes care of my mana needs. However, a bow-bear or a bowchantress with Mamboza's Croc Scale Leather would be pretty awesome....


Hybrids are something that make the game very flexible and enable you to play in a wide variety of ways. PvP is brand-new and going to take awhile to find its best form. Be patient and keep offering constructive feedback. Btw I fixed that thread title for ya :)
You're awesome. :) Reject the haters and go easy with the nerfs. The complainers will get tired of complaining eventually....

Banned
06-01-2010, 05:56 PM
most people don't lag. Try wifi. If your latency is over 300, its your connection, not the game. You should experience more lag in pve with 5 players and all the mobs, than a pvp match thats 2 on 2.

Ummm, I use wifi with an average of 70-130 ping. It's the game.

Azrael
06-01-2010, 06:06 PM
70-130 ping is great latency. Nothing wrong with the game there.

Banned
06-01-2010, 06:32 PM
70-130 ping is great latency. Nothing wrong with the game there.

It is great. Yet I still lag like a mother fo. It's the game.

King Richie
06-01-2010, 06:34 PM
thats framerate dropping not lag !!

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj401/camodawg/Kingrichiessig.png

Banned
06-01-2010, 06:42 PM
thats framerate dropping not lag !!

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj401/camodawg/Kingrichiessig.png

I know. I normally associate slow and coppy gameplay with the word lag.

Kooderna
06-03-2010, 12:43 AM
I didnt even bother reading these replies after seeing the name of this post. Any clever birdy or sword wielding chantredd csn kill u once ,aybe twice max then are out of mana. End of story, you then go up to them and kill them and just play back and forth. Mana is a huge factor to hybrids minus clever birdy. You need to realize the devs work hard yes, and we all love them for it, BUT as it stands NOW pvp is broken in more than just HYBRIDS so its hard to say thats the On,y thing thats making it no fun. Itll take time but pvp will have its place in the meantime hybrids make this game.


Note: i do not play hybrid builds, im pure dps full int build chantress. But i do appreciate those who do

Away
06-10-2010, 06:08 AM
The devs already said that hybrids bring more option and freedom in the game.
This game is only in it's early stages, so don't expect PvP to be perfect.
Expect some nerfs though.

King Richie
06-10-2010, 06:45 AM
The devs already said that hybrids bring more option and freedom in the game.
This game is only in it's early stages, so don't expect PvP to be perfect.
Expect some nerfs though.

Shoo shoo !

Azrael
06-13-2010, 02:41 PM
Just wait till the Enchantresses get there hands on thoth plate, shield, helm and weapon gear. they all have 7 int, 2 crit, 5 ms, and top end armor.
thats gonna be the highest armor, plus 23-24 ms! and around 30+ crit at least.

/face palm

i don't even know what to say anymore...

Rebel
06-13-2010, 02:43 PM
*Whistles innocently*

Who has full thoth? I mean... I don't have it on my pally. I don't have 21 m/s! Don't look at me like that!

Azrael
06-14-2010, 01:36 AM
*Whistles innocently*

Who has full thoth? I mean... I don't have it on my pally. I don't have 21 m/s! Don't look at me like that!

Lawl.. course my 13 hs / 11 ms warrior seems to be owning everything... sigh

tjornan
06-15-2010, 01:27 PM
Paladins with 21 M/S are invincible with mana shield! FTW

PvP
06-15-2010, 01:48 PM
Honestly, I will probably quit this game for good if PvP stays the way it is. I CAN NOT STAND IT!!!!!! I know what to do and every tactic I use is impounded by over-powdered hybrids. This MUST be dealt with. I made a thread about this (in my signature) and no dev has responded to this subject that I've seen. I love the devs, they work hard, but this issue has to be fixed before PvP comes out. It just has to. It is by far unbalanced and now it makes me want to quit because I don't want to start over on a bow bear. I play for PvP, and I thought the dex class was the archer, but no, its really the tank class. By the way, the tank class is the dex and the tank class. Does that make any sense? No. We need something more then we have, and archers need to be given something unique. Enchantress can heal, tanks can tank and do very high DPS, but an archer is just there. We're useless. We get kills, but only if the other player is weakened or messes up, most of the time. It is extremely unbalanced and in most games over half of the people play for PvP. Not everyone will agree with me on this subject, and thats fine, but PvP is by far unbalanced. It must be fixed. The DPS class which should be one of the most powerful classes in most games, is the most under-rated class. I really want to see a dev respond and give some kind of hope to the hundreds of people who have been arguing this topic.

Banned
06-15-2010, 01:55 PM
Honestly, I will probably quit this game for good if PvP stays the way it is. I CAN NOT STAND IT!!!!!! I know what to do and every tactic I use is impounded by over-powdered hybrids. This MUST be dealt with. I made a thread about this (in my signature) and no dev has responded to this subject that I've seen. I love the devs, they work hard, but this issue has to be fixed before PvP comes out. It just has to. It is by far unbalanced and now it makes me want to quit because I don't want to start over on a bow bear. I play for PvP, and I thought the dex class was the archer, but no, its really the tank class. By the way, the tank class is the dex and the tank class. Does that make any sense? No. We need something more then we have, and archers need to be given something unique. Enchantress can heal, tanks can tank and do very high DPS, but an archer is just there. We're useless. We get kills, but only if the other player is weakened or messes up, most of the time. It is extremely unbalanced and in most games over half of the people play for PvP. Not everyone will agree with me on this subject, and thats fine, but PvP is by far unbalanced. It must be fixed. The DPS class which should be one of the most powerful classes in most games, is the most under-rated class. I really want to see a dev respond and give some kind of hope to the hundreds of people who have been arguing this topic.

I'm pretty positive it's not hundreds dude. >_>

PvP
06-15-2010, 02:04 PM
I'm pretty positive it's not hundreds dude. >_>

Trust me, you'd be surprised.

Banned
06-15-2010, 02:07 PM
Trust me, you'd be surprised.

Dude, no. I just can't believe that.

XghostzX
07-10-2010, 09:14 PM
pally with full thoth FTW. but on topic hybrids IMO bring the majority of players to this game. Players usually start out as a pure. When they reach the max level, they realize there are tons of hybrids. They respec (in the meaning of having to pay money(, and spacetime studios gets that money, and is "encouraged" (i guess) to make the game better. But really though, i just think hybrids are []D_[]_[]\/[]_[]D_[]_[]\[]

Banned
07-10-2010, 10:31 PM
pally with full thoth FTW. but on topic hybrids IMO bring the majority of players to this game. Players usually start out as a pure. When they reach the max level, they realize there are tons of hybrids. They respec (in the meaning of having to pay money(, and spacetime studios gets that money, and is "encouraged" (i guess) to make the game better. But really though, i just think hybrids are []D_[]_[]\/[]_[]D_[]_[]\[]

Agreed. Hybrids are a great fill-in for the lack of classes. No one wants to play the same three professions forever. Without hybrids, there would be a great lack in build variety, and that is where the fun comes from. Of course, by now, the majority of players have already accepted hybrids, and they should be on par, or even weaker then pures after the skill-conversion update.

BeardedBear
07-10-2010, 10:38 PM
Lawl.. course my 13 hs / 11 ms warrior seems to be owning everything... sigh

Just wanted to note you should never need more then one thoth item on a warrior. I spam rage/evade/iron/sms/slam/beckon/hellscream nonstop and my mana doesn't even come close to dropping below 1/5th. I'd recommend isis plate and shield (as isis buckler has 4 more armor then thoth shield) , thoth helm and a bad *** one hander.

Banned
07-10-2010, 10:41 PM
Just wanted to note you should never need more then one thoth item on a warrior. I spam rage/evade/iron/sms/slam/beckon/hellscream nonstop and my mana doesn't even come close to dropping below 1/5th. I'd recommend isis plate and shield (as isis buckler has 4 more armor then thoth shield) , thoth helm and a bad *** one hander.

Correct. I have one Thoth item (the rest being Isis) on my shiv bear, and have no problems with mana.