My thoughts on tackling the Para/Eye Gem issue [Archive]

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Zylx

11-28-2015, 12:15 PM

debitmandiri

11-28-2015, 12:27 PM

Zylx

11-28-2015, 12:36 PM

Instead of forcing player to get rid their gems why not buffing jewel.
If nekro were discontinued, would u accept that the next expansion there will be no nekro in ur pet stable ?

Imbalance created by gems not so much, imbalance created by having arcane and not having arcane is larger, the game so much better now

Ahhh, but that's the thing. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. It's just scaling the gems into making sure it cant be added into the new gear. It can still be socketed into lv46 and under.

And have you ever seen the difference between a player wearing full eye/para gear and one with same gear and no eyes/paras? It's quite substantial. STS isnt going to buff jewels because they dont want players to be overpowered again- they're trying to lessen the gap between those with gems/jewels and those without, because the difference shouldn't be overly game changing.

As for your nekro situation, it would be totally fine if something better took his place. -and again, no one is taking the gems away. They would just simply be incompatible with the new gear.

In the case of arcanes being a LOT better than everything else, it only greater implies that gear>skill.

debitmandiri

11-28-2015, 01:05 PM

Ahhh, but that's the thing. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. It's just scaling the gems into making sure it cant be added into the new gear. It can still be socketed into lv46 and under.

Lv47-51 gears released and we cant upgrade them with gem is that not forcing ?

And have you ever seen the difference between a player wearing full eye/para gear and one with same gear and no eyes/paras? It's quite substantial. STS isnt going to buff jewels because they dont want players to be overpowered again- they're trying to lessen the gap between those with gems/jewels and those without, because the difference shouldn't be overly game changing.

Login into game, now for me 1 primary stat means 1+dmg, stacking para only gives 8-9dmg, socket a noble jewel gives 8-9dmg + another attribute, cap increased means another dmg add for every 1 primary stat.
Full eyes gives more hp/mana/crit (dps class), the other side full noble gives maxed out dmg ur run will be constantly faster in pve. Its not like if i have 10eyes and 8 paras in my gear ill be the most OP and fastest rogue and dominate every timed lb, it just people's taste how to improve their toons

As for your nekro situation, it would be totally fine if something better took his place.
Yea if something better, if like this case ? Would u trade off 40% dmg reduction given by nekro shield to ..... Say ability to remove pools ? But u cant use ur nekro again. Its not better its just a trade off.. Same like jewel-gems prob. The only prob with jewel only takes too much times/gold to get the best one.

Zylx

11-28-2015, 02:22 PM

Lv47-51 gears released and we cant upgrade them with gem is that not forcing ?

Complaining about not being able to socket gems in higher levels is like complaining that you cant socket noble jewels into lv5 items, or not being able to wear lv46 items when you're only lv45. If i was forcing something, i would recommend players be given a certain deadline to use their gems before they would get taken away. Instead, with my suggestion, people would still be able to use their gems on anything that is not new. It's completely fair, and it helps the future of the game.

Login into game, now for me 1 primary stat means 1+dmg, stacking para only gives 8-9dmg, socket a noble jewel gives 8-9dmg + another attribute, cap increased means another dmg add for every 1 primary stat.
Full eyes gives more hp/mana/crit (dps class), the other side full noble gives maxed out dmg ur run will be constantly faster in pve. Its not like if i have 10eyes and 8 paras in my gear ill be the most OP and fastest rogue and dominate every timed lb, it just people's taste how to improve their toons.

I really dont feel like drawing the math out -I'll let someone like Zeus or Asphy to do that- , but those with para'd gear are superior to those without para'd gear. Even more so with the Eye gems, because the eyes offer bonuses to all three main attributes, as well as crit. This is why we see mages with 5k+ health, 1,100 damage, and 60%+ crit and 1,600+ armor. The new jewels were meant to take a step back from the overpowering gems. They were supposed to improve balance, not improve stats.

Yea if something better, if like this case ? Would u trade off 40% dmg reduction given by nekro shield to ..... Say ability to remove pools ? But u cant use ur nekro again. Its not better its just a trade off.. Same like jewel-gems prob. The only prob with jewel only takes too much times/gold to get the best one.

I believe i misunderstood your original point. I was thinking you were talking about just discontinuing nekro. The way i see it now, you mean to take away nekro from everyone who owns him. Your point is completely irrelevant and ridiculous. In no way is anyone going to lose anything with my original premise. The remaining owners can still socket the gems into twink-level gear, which by itself isnt going to be balanced ever again anyways. Taking away nekro from it's current owners would be completely ridiculous and highly improbable, but if he was ever to be discontinued, i would assume a better pet with similar advantages is released to compensate.

My responses are in bold.

Jazzi

11-28-2015, 02:58 PM

@Zylx

1 (second, third, etc.) para gives me 9.6 damage ( this value dimishes with every next para , as I would lose bonus damage due to loss of main stat)
1 noble finesse gives me 8.96 damage + 24 HP + dodge+ crit.

I hope u can see how a para is actually worse than said noble finesse.
With lvl 51 myth weapon the finesse will give more damage than the para... The price of those is the same. The mind and fury nobles are about half price.

The eye gems are a completely different story. Yet going full eye won't be viable next cap either, besides in pvp maybe . why this is semi relevant is tl;dr

P.S. Even last cap stacking paras in PvP, instead of full eyes on rogue and mage was not the best idea.
P.S.S. The implementation of your suggestion will have an extremely bad impact only on the mage class.

Edward Coug

11-28-2015, 03:28 PM

Jazzi

11-28-2015, 03:39 PM

Man, chaos and lightning jewels are useless.

In terms of being useless nothing beats the water jewels ;)

Ardbeg

11-28-2015, 04:03 PM

actually for those favouring the new glintstone sets, paras are pretty useless besides the first one as there is a penalty now for using more, especially as a tank. the gear gap closes a bit from my viewpoint. of course neither paras nor noble jewels are cheap...

Ebezaanec

11-28-2015, 04:29 PM

Don't think stacking paras is the big issue, but rather the OP bonus the first one gives.

rustygun

11-28-2015, 04:36 PM

We all know the detrimental advantage these gems have over those who don't have them. And with the expansion coming up, if these gems dont get taken care of, then the whole issue of gear imbalance would still plague that expansion. Sooo...

My suggestion is to have these gems only scaled to lv46. Meaning players wont be able to socket them in anything lv47+. In addition to this, make sure the new gear is actually worth wearing. Dont release gear that is worse than before, then what's the point?

This is the kind of thinking to put it as nice as possible piss me off... How would you feel to work your bum off getting eyes saving them only for developers to throw a bug in game to stop you from using them.. Quite frankly the jewel system create a great imbalance in game as we speak one noble jewel seeling for 4 million I connot farm enough to get a noble I bought tons of diamond to see if I can make noble.. none yet I don't like too much middle man crap too much meddling Jewel system is no different "geeeeze omg when the hell will I make a noble just so I can move on to somthing else in game.. Omg my head feel like its gona explode... " that's my little voice when involving myself into acquire jewels I need for myself not to make a $$$$ just for me..

rustygun

11-28-2015, 04:49 PM

Ahhh, but that's the thing. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. It's just scaling the gems into making sure it cant be added into the new gear. It can still be socketed into lv46 and under.

And have you ever seen the difference between a player wearing full eye/para gear and one with same gear and no eyes/paras? It's quite substantial. STS isnt going to buff jewels because they dont want players to be overpowered again- they're trying to lessen the gap between those with gems/jewels and those without, because the difference shouldn't be overly game changing.

As for your nekro situation, it would be totally fine if something better took his place. -and again, no one is taking the gems away. They would just simply be incompatible with the new gear.

In the case of arcanes being a LOT better than everything else, it only greater implies that gear>skill.

You or myself don't have eye so let's just cast those that have in the trash!!!!!....Zzzzzz......Omg I remember how hard I had to work for those eyes in event, I even have to end up buying a few for 500k was so I could slot it into my new planners pendant was a very good time for me in game.. To spit on people that have is wicked Jewel system is not good endless endless farming and waste jewel system is like +4+4+4=5 next +5+5+5=6...... Need I continue its not right this is a waste of time and gold..

Zylx

11-28-2015, 05:47 PM

Again, no one is losing anything. One ounce of hard work shouldnt ruin everyone elses gameplay a year later.

Caabatric

11-28-2015, 06:38 PM

The only way to be a pvp mage that is a threat is with eye set up, straight up.

Now if we have 1 space for para, and the rest are eyes(17 slots), that is approximately (7m+17*5m)= 92m. This will give most mages 5.6-5.8k health, 45-55% crit, and damage 1000-1100.

Compared to 1 para, and rest noble minds(17 slots, that is approximately (7m+17*3m)= 58m. This will give most mages 5.2-5.3k health, 30-45% crit, and 1100-1300 damage.

So you gain about 100 damage, lose 10% crit( u crit 1/3rd of the time, they crit 1/2 the time think about it), lose 400 health

BTW: most people who can afford 58m will tell you they bought eyes, and socketed them or saving for next expansion

(my math is based off what i see in expedition camp >.<)

And when you try to buy eye gems
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?278303-Buying-Eye-gems&p=2333720#post2333720

I agree with Zylx to not allow them to socket in 51 gear, or we need buff to jewel system (specifically lightning and nature so that we can susbtiture for eyes)

(BTW) i forgot someone had a signiture showing what gems it took to make an equivalent of 16 eyes, I believe the setup used 64 gem slots

Lastmind

11-28-2015, 06:40 PM

Something has to happen for the 51 cap indeed. I will be super disappointe, if there will be eyes and para gems in 51 gear...
The jewels are great systemwise. No need for changes there, besides buffing lightning/diamond/chaos and removing water jewels.

Froxanthar

11-28-2015, 07:30 PM

Our first tasks were to figure out how to handle current gems. We didn't want to restrict where players can use them. Since players earned or purchased those gems, they should be able to use them as they see fit. Nerfing existing gems, or any items for that matter, is something to avoid at all cost, so we wanted to avoid that. Making more Paracellus-level gems to "even the playing field" for players that do not have them would simply worsen game balance. In the end, we felt the best course of action was to let existing gems eventually work themselves out of the game. Since they are not removeable from gear and there is only a set amount of them, they would, over time, cease to exist.

STS already made their decisions. So lets respect it and move on.

Roninmoro

11-28-2015, 07:34 PM

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I'm moving this thread to the Suggestions and Feedback subforum. General Discussion is not the right area for this, especially if you want it seen by devs.

Zylx

11-28-2015, 08:20 PM

STS already made their decisions. So lets respect it and move on.

I actually see quite a flaw with their decision. AL will be long gone before all the para/eye gems are worked out

Trenton

11-29-2015, 02:29 AM

I don't mean to derail but are you just guessing about a new cap or is there an announcement that it's coming soon?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

debitmandiri

11-29-2015, 11:39 AM

Im not finding a clue about a gem cant be socketed into lv47 or higher ATM, but a noble jewel CERTAINLY has a description it can only be sockted into lv30 gear or above, about nekro case .. It is the same like u think about gem cant be socketed into 47+ gears ?. So i will take ur nekro and replace it with stampy bcoz nekro (if) were discontinued and too OP.
Ur intention is too Subjective ppl earned that gems with hardwork too, are u saying that paying 50mil for 10 eyes isnt a hardwork ?.
Someone with para is superior than another without para ? By HOW MUCH ? than having an arcane and not having arcane ? . PS we just make a spot on LB and one of us was NOT WEARING PARAGEM

debitmandiri

11-29-2015, 11:56 AM

Again, no one is losing anything. One ounce of hard work shouldnt ruin everyone elses gameplay a year later.

Login into game and farm 50 million to buy 10 eyes. Its not "one ounce" geez how easy u say that. And not...para and eyes will not ruin everyone elses gameplay a year later like PLAT FARMER DID

extrapayah

11-29-2015, 12:39 PM

hehehe, both sides have a point,

as for me, i will stubbornly stick to my previous suggestion:

if sts ever make para/eyes unsocketable to new gear or stop the scaling, then there should be an exchange feature of para/eyes gem to jewels... and sts should also consider the market price of para/eyes and jewels when they announce it (that they are going to make para/eyes stop scaling). it will be not fair to players who's still having it if they ever make this happen without giving some compensation...

but, i agree that letting these gems phased out is unrealistic goal...

as for problem of balance in twinks bracket (because of paragems gears), probably the only way to solve it is:
1. make all gems cease to function
2. make a temporary/permanent feature, to pluck out the gems, and automatically convert it into jewel, according to the gear's level
3. roll back old elite maps' loot table, to make it possible to farm l15-16, l20-21, l25-26, l30-31, l35-l36 elite legendaries

with this, i think no one will lose anything much...

thank you :P

eugene9707

11-29-2015, 08:23 PM

about nekro case .. It is the same like u think about gem cant be socketed into 47+ gears ?. So i will take ur nekro and replace it with stampy bcoz nekro (if) were discontinued and too OP.

Where did you get that?
His whole idea is that eyes can only be used for gears level 46 and under, nothing about replaceing it (like you said, replace nekro with stampy)
Basically, when higher level comes, because of the way gems scale, it will eventually become more and more op and it's also no longer obtainable

Currently, an eye gives +3 +3 +3 and 1.01 crit for lv 46 , when lv 51 comes it'll probably be +4 +4 +4 + 1.05 crit
That's 12 stat points in a single gear slot...

ppl earned that gems with hardwork too, are u saying that paying 50mil for 10 eyes isnt a hardwork ?.

Yes it's hard work, but is that hard work not paid off when they use it in their lv 46 mythic? No one suggest to remove them, they can still use it, but on gears less than lv 47

Login into game and farm 50 million to buy 10 eyes. Its not "one ounce" geez how easy u say that. And not...para and eyes will not ruin everyone elses gameplay a year later like PLAT FARMER DID

Wont effect game play? If one person at lv 51 have eyes in every single gem slots, given the assumption above of +4 +4 +4 , that's 12*18 (3 for each gear) = 216 extra stats points, compare to an average player with full noble of 144 stats points , that's a 72 stat points difference... and you're telling me 72 stats difference won't effect game play?

Okay, even if sts decide to release the next tire of jewel (+9), that's still a 54 stat points difference. Also, keep in mind, that will take 6561 cracked jewel to crack for each, that's 118,098 cracked jewels for the full set and at the price of jewels now, that will be 118,098 * 4k (for each weak finesse jewel)= 472,392k, so 472m.... compare to that, the "180 million for 18 eyes" (i scaled it up for comparison) is indeed, easy, and you get an extra 54 stat points as well