Next gen bow bears

[Mr.Wallace]

After hitting level 56 I put Mrwallace into temporary retirement and started some chars to find out more about the confusing world of birds and mages. I leveled them without friends' help, was just joining PUGs. And of course, i especially watched the bears around me, I will always have a very ursan perspective.

I noticed that there is a big number of bow bears now. Especially from level 40 on I think I saw more dex bears than "normal" bears. I remember when I switched to dex I was some kind of circus freak, times have changed...

But what concerns me, many of those bow bears run somewhere in second row, just auto attacking. I am not shy to ask them if they plan to tank, and after chatting with around 15 of those second row bears, I heard similar opinions about their role.

"I'm an attack bear, I don't tank"
"Bow bears shouldn't use beckon cause they need range"
"I just deal damage"

Sure I really like the great damage the combination of bow and rage gives, but I think a bear should do more than that.

So my question to my fellow bears, especially the newer ones: How do you understand your role? Are you primarily a damage dealer or a tank in light armor?

[Ellyidol]

Uh-oh, hopefully none of those bears misunderstood my guides to saying "You aren't supposed to tank".

*checks and edits*

Thanks Wallace!

[Conradin]

I tanked as bow-bear un sewers and tank as a intbear too- those guys are just nt as expirienced probably.

[Arterra]

Lol now I Feel awesome for maxing out stomp and beckon as soon as I hit that skill.

It makes a huge difference to actually be in the fight. At least until ao3, you are barely in any danger anyway, so just tell them to get rough.

[Sorcererssoul]

I am a starting dexbear atm, trying to keep up with 1 of wallace lvling alts :-/.
But i Will always tank, even if i am wear my scarab and pretty fragile that way.
I'll only hold back when i see an tank thats doing his job. (though dont see that happen much)
An hour ago, i did an run with some lvl 55's in CTK with 1 tank/dex bear.
But instead of him getting aggro, i took it from keeper + lorekeeper without any effort O.o

[Riccits]

the word "tank" is a bit huge. as dex bear u have the armor like a bird, so no really much. u can stun mobs by 3 major skills, ok, but when those skills restor u could come in trouble when many mobs are around u. a dex bear isnt a real "tank". if he woulb be, why we would need str bears?
some ppl asks me to tank too. but only work i can do is to stun mobs for the group. i cant make round ups or hold aggro of a hard hitting boss with my lousy ~80 amor and those bit of dogde..

wallace u know how iam playing with my bear ;) i try to lead the group with stunning and making crowds but the group must be near behind me and help attack.

IMO a real tank is a str bear, not a dex bear.

[Tamino]

Mr.Wallace, I agree (after all, tanking is not only taking damage: is to teach discipline to mobs and keep them stunned - my dual bear is the funniest toon to play for this reason). But from your new point of view: you see how many bears are middle-room beacon/stomper? I know, proper beacon/stomp is one of most difficult skill to learn, but it is also THE ONE that makes the difference - good: all appreciate, bad: all dead. Facepalm emote!

[Arterra]

The thing is that Dex bear never even have to tank. Their whole existence revolves around their ability to STUNLOCK.

I sneak past a few mobs to get position where I can beckon them all, then I add in a stomp into a corner and a hellscream for good measure, to make sure they stay still.
I then move to the opposite wall, and by the time they reach me I can do it all over again.

If you guys want a fragile bear to tank, wrong approach. If you want him to keep moving and be a mob magnet, you got a deal mister. I use iron blood only to get past the first few, and for bosses.

[Irconfuzed]

I recently respec'd my lvl 45 bear to dex/str. I love it so far and it has me playing my bear again full time. I found my role hasn't changed much in dungeon clears. Im still leading the group and controlling the pace and my dps contribution is awesome.
Im glad you started this thread because I have a question. Im awful squishy and the only problem im having is in boss fights. I find myself pulling aggro with rage crits on boss fights fights and generally end up tanking by kiting. Not an ideal situation for the group as far as im concerned. If there's no real tank is it feasible to assume the role in a boss fight and strap on a shiv and wing? How do you handle boss fights in say AO3 when you're the only bear?

[Arterra]

Im glad you started this thread because I have a question. Im awful squishy and the only problem im having is in boss fights. I find myself pulling aggro with rage crits on boss fights fights and generally end up tanking by kiting. Not an ideal situation for the group as far as im concerned. If there's no real tank is it feasible to assume the role in a boss fight and strap on a shiv and wing? How do you handle boss fights in say AO3 when you're the only bear?

Tbh if I was the only party tank, I would switch to str gear unless I trusted the group.
Aka dual spec str and Dex.

[Ellyidol]

I recently respec'd my lvl 45 bear to dex/str. I love it so far and it has me playing my bear again full time. I found my role hasn't changed much in dungeon clears. Im still leading the group and controlling the pace and my dps contribution is awesome.
Im glad you started this thread because I have a question. Im awful squishy and the only problem im having is in boss fights. I find myself pulling aggro with rage crits on boss fights fights and generally end up tanking by kiting. Not an ideal situation for the group as far as im concerned. If there's no real tank is it feasible to assume the role in a boss fight and strap on a shiv and wing? How do you handle boss fights in say AO3 when you're the only bear?

I kite "tank".

What Arterra said on his previous post works really well as to kite tanking.

For bosses, attack from a distance. Rage + crits should get you aggro, if not, use Taunt. Moment bosses aggro you, move next to a wall, Beckon - Crushing Blow (to reduce boss dodge) - Stomp - SMS/Hell Scream or both. Then start running opposite side. Usually takes boss a few seconds to start running to you again. By that time, either kite a bit until Beckon combo ready again or it should be ready, rinse repeat.

That way I barely take constant damage from bosses. When I do, my natural HS is enough to usually fill me up again. Health pot occasionally :)

[Arterra]

Lol what is this taunt you speak of? Never needed it, never will. Nice thing about dexbear is that it has enough damage and debuffs that it speaks for itself, and mobs listen.

[Ellyidol]

Lol what is this taunt you speak of? Never needed it, never will. Nice thing about dexbear is that it has enough damage and debuffs that it speaks for itself, and mobs listen.

Lol :p

It's this skill bears have that "take" aggro ;)

[Arterra]

Insert sarcasm.

We need a sarcasm emote...

But no really, I dont even have a point in taunt at 35.

[CrimsonTider]

I have noticed what MrWallacebis talking about as well. More and more dex bears but they stay in the back of the crowd like bird/mage. Personally, I still lead, taunt, and do what I need to to make things easier on my group.

I still think the major problem is the lack of understanding of crowd control. With the increase in dex bears comes the decline in the ability to properly use beckon. I have learned as a 27(well, the secrets out!!), that many mvp 30-45 bears have no clue of what beckon is or its proper usage. These bears are concentrating so much on being killers (maxing all the slashes first) and don't realize the role of crowd control still exists. This is even carrying over into the sewer runs I am involved in. Most of the time, I will take the lead but when I don't, it becomes a game of freeze tag for the group to take out the mobs. I try to remedy this by teaching but it is becoming harder to find individuals willing to listen.

I know those of us whole love our bears are always striving to get better and keep respect within our character race. Just hope the newer generation will be more receptive to teaching.

[wvhills]

In all honesty I don't know why you would want to be a bowbear. If you want to stand back and deal damage then be a bird. I expect all bears to tank and perform crowd control. Lol. It's the same with "warbirds". If you want to tank and use str gear then be a bear!
That's just me though, whatever floats your boat.

[Riccits]

a dex bear risks lesser booting. so i think thats why many respec.

[KingFu]

I very recently leveled my dex bear. I was a talon bear, and I tanked just fine. Granted, I had top tier dex gear and pots to splurge, but it wasn't much of a problem. I met literally 1 other bear than me tha actually beckoned, and groups mobs, taunted them after combos, and cornered bosses. All the other bears did was ungroup my already grouped mobs, stomp, send em flying, and have em reset as they run ahead. It was fairly aggravating and it got to the point I was either hosting and booting bears that didn't listen, or leave and join a different PUG at the sight of one.

I haven't used a bear in a while. I leveled two to 50, only took one to 55, and recently leveled another different one from 1 to 55. I have full fort, but all I do is tank and group. I'll through in some slashes at left over mobs, and he'll scream to stun, and use taunt as I run ahead to group more. I'm a little rusty though:p so yar.

[Tamino]

In all honesty I don't know why you would want to be a bowbear. If you want to stand back and deal damage then be a bird. I expect all bears to tank and perform crowd control. Lol. It's the same with "warbirds". If you want to tank and use str gear then be a bear!
That's just me though, whatever floats your boat.

Full DEX bear... sounds strange, maybe you're right; but a full STR bear is worse. Bears are naturally forced to add some DEX to their stats to be effective even in tanking, the matter of choice is the STR/DEX balance. For me, 142/137 worked fine; it allows me to wear all endgame STR gears for proper tanking and purple/pink 55 DEX sets for mob controlling / clearing.

Wearing DEX sets do not change the playing style, a bear still need mobs contact because of the skills short range; but ranged damage is useful for dispatching the survivors while beacon cools down, and the hit and crit % gifted by bows and pumped up by Rage is really awesome!

[KingFu]

In all honesty I don't know why you would want to be a bowbear. If you want to stand back and deal damage then be a bird. I expect all bears to tank and perform crowd control. Lol. It's the same with "warbirds". If you want to tank and use str gear then be a bear!
That's just me though, whatever floats your boat.

I can easily understand your point, but the main perk of a dex bear is having high hit (which tanks no longer have), and high crit. Yes, damage dealing is for archers and mages mainly, but the hit helps with taunt and beckon, and crit allows them to clear mobs faster. I'm a Mage first, but if there's a dex bear in the party, and he can stay alive (with or without my help) and is grouping, I'm not gonna complain. Warbirds are really for PvP players, they are a pain to face, and are effective, but in PvE I don't see the point in them either since it's hard not like you can't taunt to get aggro, and it might be hard to maintain as one if there's a pure dex bird near by.

[Ellyidol]

In all honesty I don't know why you would want to be a bowbear. If you want to stand back and deal damage then be a bird. I expect all bears to tank and perform crowd control. Lol. It's the same with "warbirds". If you want to tank and use str gear then be a bear!
That's just me though, whatever floats your boat.

I didn't see the use of it either, until eventually I just tried it.

Was amazed at how well it could perform.

The range of your bow/talon is just amazing, so much more damage versus the melee type.
The Hit is no longer a problem, such a relief coming from a str or dual spec set up.
Depending on set, the crit is awesome!

And, afaik, if buffed with Rage 6 + correct gear, a bear can out-damage a bird sometimes :)

[KingFu]

I didn't see the use of it either, until eventually I just tried it.

Was amazed at how well it could perform.

The range of your bow/talon is just amazing, so much more damage versus the melee type.
The Hit is no longer a problem, such a relief coming from a str or dual spec set up.
Depending on set, the crit is awesome!

And, afaik, if buffed with Rage 6 + correct gear, a bear can out-damage a bird sometimes :)

Only downside is the survivability, most dex bears have to chug HP pots like there's no tomorrow while grouping, and 55 talon sets don't offer enough armor to make up for it

[Nightarcher]

Probably what this thread boils down to, which has and always will be a problem, is that

NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO UTILIZE CROWD CONTROL!

I just don't get it. For me, the absolute most fun aspect of being a bear, Str or Dex or Dual, is collecting a whole map of mobs into a corner, unable to move. Controlling their comings and goings, the master of their fate...! Yeah you get it. ;)

[Vivi]

I started a dex bear from the very beginning planning to prove that in right hands dex bear can pull off both massive dmg and crowd control/"tank" and by tank I mean be the primary target 24/7. I'm always leading the grounp maintaing taunt both to keep aggro and to boost my dodge giving me permanent bonus of 16 dodge. Combined with hellscream's aoe hit debuff and decent duration of evade I manage to "tank" the ninja style. Ppl saying that bow bear is just as fragile as bird dont really realize the potential of bear skills. Well timed beckon+stomp combined with aggressively playing group gives us a team that blazes through mobs like a raging conflagration. I'm planning to post my build on the forum in few days once I hit 56 and explain my game style in more depth.

[nazgulking]

After reading this, my next char will be a bowbear! :)

[CrimsonTider]

Probably what this thread boils down to, which has and always will be a problem, is that

NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO UTILIZE CROWD CONTROL!

I just don't get it. For me, the absolute most fun aspect of being a bear, Str or Dex or Dual, is collecting a whole map of mobs into a corner, unable to move. Controlling their comings and goings, the master of their fate...! Yeah you get it. ;)

This a pretty broad statement, IMO. I know several bears capable of crowd control. Not sure if I misunderstood you point. I agree, the numbers are in favor of those that don't but to say NOBODY does is a bit over exaggerated.

[Vivi]

If someone doesn't know how to play bear it doesn't matter if he's full str, dual spec or full dex. Dex bears just require players with more experience and understanding of the bear skills and limitations. I always try to push it to know where my limits are ;)

So just get out there and practise. U're not gonna learn how to crowd control and be useful by staying in the back and playing it safe. If u're worried about survivability just make sure u spam taunt to keep ur dodge high and hellscream as soon as ure surrounded by a larger group (max those ASAP they're worth it). Crushing blow helps a ton on bosses, and practise using beckon/stomp Combo to group mobs near a wall not scatter them around. (unless it's a tight place and ur combo leaves them nearly dead). And for the end. If ure a dex bear and ure reading this means u don't want to be noob and u try to be useful, and always be open to learning new tricks of the trade ;)

[LordEspe]

I use custom set on my main bear and I do well with controlling the mobs! I also do ok with health b/c of the nice h/s! IMO the key to a bowbear is....movement! You make a nice pile of mobs then if you take too much damage then you simply move to the opposite wall and recreate your pile again!

I have a Mage, bird and bear as mains!!! My bear is, by far, my favorite character because of the crowd control! I have recently made a new bowbear for PVP And while Lvling up I use the same tech. As my 55 bear! The differences I see is
-I lead the way and make a pile but I find myself fighting this group for a good 2-3 sEcs Before the rest of the group is there!
-The other bears, strbears, are middle to back row fighters! Not all but too many!

[CrimsonTider]

Vivi nailed it. Experience and a willingness to learn are the only ways to improve your bear skills. Mo matter what your skill specification is.

[Dark Avenger]

to answer your question mrwallace, i feel my role is crowd control. i usually run in the front of the packs and use beckon to place my crowds where i want against a wall and then stomp and use my slashes and get out of the crowd to survive. if the crowd is still there afterwards i will beckon and slam them to another wall or further down that wall. in 30's-40s i was primarily a talon tank until i was lucky enough to get some nice bows around lvl 45. since then i have switched to bows primarily and if i dont know my crew or dont see a tank bear i switch to my str gear until i am comfortable with the group and then ill switch back to bow bear. i used to like the talon tank approach but in the BS i feel i wasnt doing alot of damage to the crowds and took forever to kill them. you definitely consume more pots as a crowd control bow bear but i love it. i think the biggest part or the problem with the new gen bow bears are they dont know how to do it properly. i started my bear 1 day before the google cloud crash thing so i was stuck at lvl 5 or something and had lots of free time to research what the best way to go with an upcoming bear. my first character was a pure int mage and my second character i wanted to try bear. so after i did research, and the game came back up, i started building my dual spec bear to what he is now. i learned alot from reading all the different posts on dual specing and skill placements and am very happy with where my build is today because of it. if all the bow bears did alittle research i think we all would be alot better off.

[Ellyidol]

If you think about it, if a bowbear doesn't crowd control, seriously, what skills does he use? 0.0

If he's a bow bear, meaning ranged attacks, the ONLY skill you can use is Beckon that has the furthest range. HS / Taunt don't have that much of range.

So what, he pops Rage and just normal attacks? 0.0 LOL!

[Dark Avenger]

guess i dont fully understand crowd control? what is crowd control then? i was refering to it being getting the crowds against a wall/ in a corner where i want them so i can stun them and swoop in for my melee attacks and then dart out to use my range and pull against opposite wall if need be... controlling the crowd...

[Sky../]

guess i dont fully understand crowd control? what is crowd control then? i was refering to it being getting the crowds against a wall/ in a corner where i want them so i can stun them and swoop in for my melee attacks and then dart out to use my range and pull against opposite wall if need be... controlling the crowd...

You're correct.

By the way, elly's comment wasn't to criticiZe your post. He was stating his opinion in general, and not specifically directEd to you.

[Ellyidol]

You're correct.

By the way, elly's comment wasn't to criticiZe your post. He was stating his opinion in general, and not specifically directEd to you.

Oh, yeah wasn't directed at you Dark :)

Just in general, for those bears that like to lay back and not get their hands dirty :p

[Dark Avenger]

oh ok. lol. sorry bout that. this is why i dont post in forum too much. i suck at it, lol. after rereading i see the "if" i missed. thats why i thought that was to me.

[NECROREAPER]

I don't use a bow but I am an attack bear. Most of the time I do tank despite my lower armor but I mostly try to rely on killing them before they can hit me.

As far as bow bear tanking, parth does it all the time and it seems very effective, even more effective than a pure str. Bear I'd say. I think it's because the added hit % which aids in pulling.

I think damage bears do more crowd controlling than real tanking

[Vivi]

Beckon 12m range, taunt 12m range, stomp 8m range, hellscream 8m range. That's longer or same range as a bow ellyidol, that's more than enough for the tight corridors of BS. I don't mean to be a troll, but what u wrote made u seem like one.
Also when u corrner a boss u can easily spam 3 slashes and crushing blow for massive ST dmg.

[Ellyidol]

Beckon 12m range, taunt 12m range, stomp 8m range, hellscream 8m range. That's longer or same range as a bow ellyidol, that's more than enough for the tight corridors of BS. I don't mean to be a troll, but what u wrote made u seem like one.
Also when u corrner a boss u can easily spam 3 slashes and crushing blow for massive ST dmg.

Try it, a bow will always be in range for an attack first before HS/Stomp :)

The only way Stomp/HS can be within equal distance of a max ranged attack is probably a Talon/Wing. Which in that case, if the bear is still afraid to tank, is even funnier.

Not trying to sound like a troll, but if a bears purpose was to attack from a distance and not bother with tanking/crown control at all, why even bother rolling bear? Never knew common sense was considered trolling.

I wasn't trying to troll, it just seems extremely boring to be that bear. Pop rage and tap normal attack as often as possible, see? :)

[CrimsonTider]

I think what Elly, myself, and others are trying to point out is that the MAJORITY is actually a minority. Those of us that have posted on this topic understand our role, and most importantly how to manage, and use, our skills. I can give countless examples each day of individuals at high levels (47+) who should understand their roles, how to control mobs, and maximize skill distribution but still run into a room and stomp, don't know what beckon is (lol), and run around slashing when they are out of range.

Because of the popularity, and recent explosion, of bow bears, individuals are just creating to be part of the "in" crowd and do not realize the continued importance of their role as a bear. I will admit, a few months ago I had NO CLUE. But I was willing to listen to others, learn from some of the best, and continued my evolution with the introduction to the forums. This is not the case with most bears and it is sad.

[CrimsonTider]

Never knew common sense was considered trolling.

Love it!

[Mr.Wallace]

Ugh, been away a few days and already four pages here? :)

I don't think tanking in the traditional meaning of taking hits for the team is really needed in PL. Every class can do that, just need a quick health pot finger and a lag free connection. So when I say tanking I mean primarily crowd control. Prepare the mobs so the team can finish the job. And that's why - in my opinion - a bear should do, no matter if he wears a sword, bow or a staff.

And when I hear from bow bears that they don't want to gain aggro - who else should? When there is a str char in the team no problem. But mind, usually even the most fragile bow bear has more health and armor than the dex bird who will gain aggro instead of him.

[friedkimchi]

Try it, a bow will always be in range for an attack first before HS/Stomp :)

The only way Stomp/HS can be within equal distance of a max ranged attack is probably a Talon/Wing. Which in that case, if the bear is still afraid to tank, is even funnier.

Not trying to sound like a troll, but if a bears purpose was to attack from a distance and not bother with tanking/crown control at all, why even bother rolling bear? 0.0

Never knew common sense was considered trolling.

That's why I only add those bears that know how to use beckon and stomp properly.

Even if I'm running in a group that has 2 bears(me included, using dex gear), I rush in, use beckon after the first bear has done most of the crowd control or I move ahead and gather remaining enemies. Even if my armour is low, I still taunt and take aggro.

Before boss: Bears are expected to lead the pack and gather mobs in packs.
During boss: Bears are expected to keep boss pinned against the wall and sustain aggro (This is sometimes difficult due to the crazy damage of Pure Dex birds, but still bears have to do what they can)

I'm still amused when I see end game bears who use beckon anyhow.

The saying, ''A few rotten apples spoil the whole barrel'' is very true for bear users unlike archers and mages.(Hard to screw up playing archers and mages)

[Vivi]

Ellyidol, the autotarget range is always greater than the actual range. Even when u get "auto" on ur attack button on I doesnt mean ur target is being fired at. Check the stomp range vs the range the arrows fly at. Crossbows/guns have the range ure talking about.

[Ellyidol]

Ellyidol, the autotarget range is always greater than the actual range. Even when u get "auto" on ur attack button on I doesnt mean ur target is being fired at. Check the stomp range vs the range the arrows fly at. Crossbows/guns have the range ure talking about.

Yes, but assuming your moving towards the target, the moment your auto-attack completes the attack bar, you are within range of a normal attack. In other words, unless your moving away or either of you get pushed back, the auto-attack range = weapon range. Fortunately, none of the ranged weapons are THAT slow that the auto-attack range > weapon range. Definitely noticeable on a Gurgox Hammer though.

From what I've tested and have seen, only the Talon is the exact fit for HS/Stomp to be used exactly when you start attacking. Bows and Beckon fit hand in hand, and Crossbows/guns have a slight range advantage over Beckon.

Just speaking from experience, always open to be corrected :)

[Mr.Wallace]

Yes, but assuming your moving towards the target, the moment your auto-attack completes the attack bar, you are within range of a normal attack. In other words, unless your moving away or either of you get pushed back, the auto-attack range = weapon range. Fortunately, none of the ranged weapons are THAT slow that the auto-attack range > weapon range. Definitely noticeable on a Gurgox Hammer though.

From what I've tested and have seen, only the Talon is the exact fit for HS/Stomp to be used exactly when you start attacking. Bows and Beckon fit hand in hand, and Crossbows/guns have a slight range advantage over Beckon.

Just speaking from experience, always open to be corrected :)

I once tested weapon ranges (You need a friend and a private PVP Map for that :) ), I forgot to write down, but as far as I remember:

EDIT: Tried again, seems like:

Talon: >8m (more than Stomp, HS)
Recurve / Bow: 12m (like Taunt, Beckon)
Xbow, Gun: 14m

[Ellyidol]

I once tested weapon ranges (You need a friend and a private PVP Map for that :) ), I forgot to write down, but as far as I remember:

Talon: 8m (like Stomp, HS)
Recurve / Bow: 10m
Xbow, Gun: 12m (like Taunt, Beckon)

Ah, must be the further auto-attack range that Vivi mentioned that made me think Bow/Beckon fit and Xbow/Gun had longer range. Sounds like the auto-attack range has about 2m more.

[Sky../]

Beckon 12m range, taunt 12m range, stomp 8m range, hellscream 8m range. That's longer or same range as a bow ellyidol, that's more than enough for the tight corridors of BS.

He's talking about those dexbears that are 1. Don't want or are afraid to tank 2. Just stay behind the group for fear of gaining aggro.

Take note: he's not saying that all dexbears are like that.

Now taling that into consideration, if a bear is either 1 or 2, or both, do you really think they will spam taunt? Remember these are the bears that stay away from aggro. Same with beckon. If a bears runs at the backside of a group, you really expect him to beckon?

With that, there's 2 skills left. Hellscream and stomp. Hellscream is beneficial as long as it hits. I guess my only comment on that is, hope those bears can accurately guess the 8m range so they don't cast outside of range. (again,remember they hang behond the group). For stomp, same thing. From behind the group, mobs will be barely in range of stomp. And even if they are, i seriously doubt these bears would use stomp to push these mobs in the right direction. Most likely they will just spam it and send enemies all over the place.

[Mr.Wallace]

Ah, must be the further auto-attack range that Vivi mentioned that made me think Bow/Beckon fit and Xbow/Gun had longer range. Sounds like the auto-attack range has about 2m more.

I know why I don't trust my memory - just tested, Autobow has more range than taunt. You can shoot ppl you can't taunt yet...
So forget what I said!

[CrimsonTider]

This discussion is making me want to take an in-game survey asking bears if they:

1. Use taunt or not? Why or why not?
2. Feel as if they should tank as a dex/dual-spec bear?
3. Understand the purpose/benefit of beckon?

Can test this on my 56 and low level bear to compare/contrast the data to better understand what we are dealing with as an overall population. I will probably also ask game experience (time playing) and if the individual has alt characters or not.

Suggestions??

[Vivi]

I was going to do the range test today with my buddy after work but I see u guys saved me the hustle. Also I have to agree that 8m or 12m range won't be enough for the bowbears afraid to get their paws dirty xD But well, it all comes down to ur personality - u're either active or passive. Same story with birds who don't want to spam skills on bosses cuz they're afraid of the boss aggro'ing on em or Mages who don't don't use blessings for their massive, yet short self buff effects. In the end bad player is just a bad player xD no matter the class.

So what I recommend is: Get pro-active, go out there and set an example. If u're desperate to educate the masses prepare some short macro text messages or take the guy on a side and explain him the basics. For lots of these guys bear is first character and didn't get a chance to see how they should really play their character.

Ok my rant is over for now xD

[CrimsonTider]

Parth has began an excellent thread on crowd control in the sewers. His bear is using dex gear so hopefully those reading this thread will turn their attention to his for visual examples.

[WhoIsThis]

If you think about it, if a bowbear doesn't crowd control, seriously, what skills does he use? 0.0

If he's a bow bear, meaning ranged attacks, the ONLY skill you can use is Beckon that has the furthest range. HS / Taunt don't have that much of range.

So what, he pops Rage and just normal attacks? 0.0 LOL!

As strange as this may sound, I have seen bears tell me that their job is to spam vengeful and super mega smash, along firing with their main weapon. Don't expect these types of bears to taunt, beckon, or stomp. They will not run with the group and and often hang to the rear, forcing the rest of the team to hold the aggro. On the plus side, you will see hell screams though and crushing blow against bosses. However, they will not attempt to hold the aggro of a boss. To be entirely honest, I don't really mind having these types of bears when I host. They are quite common nowadays. At the very least, they have rage and all of their slashes maxed out, so they can do a reasonable amount of damage.

Far more annoying are the bears that don't know how to use stomp. The first category are "stomp bears". They run with the party (sometimes in front, although more often with the rest of the party) and spam stomp as fast as it recharges. This scatters mobs all over the place. Why this is a problem needs no explanation. The second category are the "smash bears", which beckon then stomp (and they never do this into a wall). They usually run with the party, beckon, then stomp, sending them all over the place. Better I suppose than stomp bears. With smash bears, if you can time your attacks (lightning, hot flash, cruel blast, and thorn root) with the beckon and hit them while the mobs are together, you can do a lot of damage.

Neither of the 2 categories above is receptive to the idea that they should beckon towards a wall, run in the opposite direction of the beckon towards the middle, and stomp the targets into the wall. The majority are also unwilling to lead the group, so whenever I play, I usually just find myself leading. I think most players when not playing as bear reading this should anticipate that they will be leading. For archers, use the videos in "How Physiologic Plays" for more information on how to do this. Although you won't be able to deal as much damage with the GCD, the idea is the same. Mages should basically run in front, get into the middle of a mob, debuff, then nuke.