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View Full Version : How Re-roll Works. [Guide]



Bazinga!
12-10-2015, 11:02 AM
I wanted to decide on the best elixir strategy to get the best results and searched for a guide on re-roll, and I found Physiologic's guide from the 56 cap. Some of you will say that he has already made a guide like this but I'm sorry to say that his guide is incorrect. He was perfect on all counts with his calculations, algorithms etc., except he missed one small point which largely affects the outcome.

(If you are not concerned about Physiologic's guide then skip to the REROLL section.)

Here is a link to the guide he made:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?30059-How-Drop-Rates-Work-(Simplified)-and-the-Factor-of-Luck-Elixirs

And now I will explain what he did and how it really works. Read the third section of his guide, where all the calculations are. He multiplied the drop rate with the reroll chance and then multiplied the rest of the percentage;
e.g.-- (1/4) -> Reroll x (1/100) -> Chance of getting a pink x (99/100) -> Chance of getting an item which is not pink.

But this does not make sense with accordance to the definition of re-roll. Re-roll means getting an item one class higher than the earlier one. So if you are getting a green, a reroll will help you get a purple. If you are getting a purple, a reroll will help you get a pink. What Physiologic did as far as my understanding is concerned is that he multiplied the reroll with the chance of getting any other colour, and then multiplied it with the chance of getting a pink, which shouldn't be in the equation at all. Not every colour rerolls into a pink, only purple does, so (99/100) cannot be taken into account.

This is probably becoming pretty complex and overwhelming for some of you, so let me explain how it should actually be.

REROLL------->

First we have to take the drop rates for each colour item WITHOUT an elixir. Only the devs know the exact drop rate, but in the upcoming table, I have set up some arbitrary and sensible drop rates for each colour.

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The first box show the base drop rates without any elixir. In the second table, I have shown the chance of getting an item with a 100% reroll elixir. Pink always rerolls into elite. Purple always rerolls into pink and so on. So the 5% pink always becomes elite, giving a 6% chance totally to get an elite (because there is still 1% chance to get an elite without reroll and it clearly states in the elixir description that it will reroll IF POSSIBLE).

The third box shows the chance of getting each item colour with a 30% reroll elixir, which is your 1.25, 1.5 and 3x combo daily blessing elixir with which most people farm. You can see that your chance of getting an elite increases from 1% to a mere 2.5%, which kind of sucks. It makes way less difference compared to the 100% reroll.

The fourth box shows 70% reroll chance, and is a pretty good contender, giving 4.5% chance of getting an elite. You can get 70% reroll by using daily 3x, the 2x combo from the store (8 Platinum) and a big lucky hat. For an hour, it will cost you 16 platinum and it will give you 4.5% chance of getting an elite, whereas the 100% reroll will cost you 40 platinum for 6% chance to get elites. Comparing the ratios, the 70% reroll is the most cost effective method of farming, but of course this doesnt apply to all dungeons. The base values I took are completely random.

Now lets take appropriate base drop rates for the new campaign THE OVERLORD RETURNS. I haven't tested but this is an educated guess of the drop rates.
Note: Different elites have different drop rates, but I'm taking the average drop rates for elites as 0.1%, which means in a thousand runs with no elixir, there will be one such drop.

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Legendaries are preeeeetty common in the new campaign so I have taken the drop rate as 7%. Now, we can see that you can now get a whopping 7.1% elite drop rate with a 100% reroll and a 5% drop rate with the 70% reroll chance elixir.

Why Should You Take a 100% Reroll?

As I said lots of pinks drop here and if you could turn every single one of them into an elite, then you might get lucky and hit the jackpot (MAGOR, WARAT and ARZAC).

In short I'm here to say that elixirs do make a difference unlike the conclusion in Physiologic's guide which made it seem like they are of no use. I hope this guide helps you and correct me in any place you think I'm wrong.

Suentous PO
12-10-2015, 02:47 PM
Reroll does not guarantee a higher drop rate color, as last explained by a dev, it means you have a chance to get a better rarity. A pink can reroll to a pink, unless this has changed without telling us.

Edit- I have found conflicting info from players repeating what Futimash and Asomers said that didn't make clear if they were talking about plain luck elix or shamrock.
Problem is that many old posts were eliminated once couple years ago.

Like this;

Quote Originally Posted by asommers
Improved luck elixirs again. All loot that a mob will possibly drop is now considered when rerolling for loot.

And here where it IS stated that luck rerolls always go to the better rarity is only referring to shamus, not all the common rerolls we do use.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/entry.php?85-How-Luck-Enhancers-Work

So if regular dailies and blessings do as the first Asomers quote as they seem to, then Physiologics thinking is not incorrect.

Also have never seen proof which luck elixirs DO stack, so I doubt your 70% reroll statement.

I miss the days when Devs would answer us lol

Iheybeautiful
12-10-2015, 04:51 PM
Idk why ppl still work hard to make threads like these while the game dead but gj!

iamthesurvivor
12-11-2015, 06:08 AM
You sure have a lot of time...

Bazinga!
12-11-2015, 06:40 AM
Reroll does not guarantee a higher drop rate color, as last explained by a dev, it means you have a chance to get a better rarity. A pink can reroll to a pink, unless this has changed without telling us.

Edit- I have found conflicting info from players repeating what Futimash and Asomers said that didn't make clear if they were talking about plain luck elix or shamrock.
Problem is that many old posts were eliminated once couple years ago.

Like this;

Quote Originally Posted by asommers
Improved luck elixirs again. All loot that a mob will possibly drop is now considered when rerolling for loot.

And here where it IS stated that luck rerolls always go to the better rarity is only referring to shamus, not all the common rerolls we do use.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/entry.php?85-How-Luck-Enhancers-Work

So if regular dailies and blessings do as the first Asomers quote as they seem to, then Physiologics thinking is not incorrect.

Also have never seen proof which luck elixirs DO stack, so I doubt your 70% reroll statement.

I miss the days when Devs would answer us lol

Even if a pink rerolls into a pink, it doesnt affect the calculations because its the same as saying a pink doesnt reroll. Im pretty sure that luck elixirs stack. Other attributes stack. Stack another combo on top of ur daily blessing combo and see the xp rate rise. Its only logical that other things like armour, luck etc would also stack.

tHelonestud
12-20-2015, 04:36 PM
Physiologic's guide was made before the re-roll system revamp, which I think was during the 66 cap.


Allow me to shed some light here. The luck enhancer was not broken before but we decided to make it even better! Here's how the luck enhancer works, before and after the patch:

Old Luck Enhancer
Whenever you receive a drop the system rolls for what loot you will receive. With the old luck enhancer the system would roll for your drops twice, then give you the better of the two items. This happens behind the scenes. So it was possible to roll two white items and then receive the better of those two whites. This is how all luck increases have worked in STS games up to this point.

New Luck Enhancer
The new luck enhancer still rerolls your loot, but the rerolled item will always be one rarity better than the item you should have received. With this enhancer if you roll an orange the system will reroll and give you a random green item, assuming there is a green item that drops for your level in that map.

As you can see the old enhancer was not bugged, but we have reworked the enhancer to be significantly better. We did this because we love you! <3

Pretty thorough explanation from Flip in SL forums they did the same with PL's luck system at that time.


So I think it would work like you get 2 rolls but the second one is a minimum of the next rarity up from your initial reroll if you do reroll.

Sometimes certain items drop in separate charts like crafting loot is separate from normal gear any many/most maps.

Well I guess Sue already posted link to that quote, I think it refers to all luck elixirs despite only referencing the shamus/asteroid miner.

Suentous PO
12-20-2015, 08:26 PM
Well I guess Sue already posted link to that quote, I think it refers to all luck elixirs despite only referencing the shamus/asteroid miner.

The reason I did not think that refered to all luck as opposed to shamus, was that when they first released that it didn't work as intended and was way to expensive for what it did. I remember them having to change shamus.
Edit-
Oh right derp forgot where I found that. It's talking about shamus miner
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And due to this studs thread;
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?66464-no-drops-with-shamus-thrasher&highlight=Shamus

I'm reminded that originally it did not roll up and thus wasn't worth the plat until they made that change flip posted.

Bazinga!
12-21-2015, 07:17 AM
Physiologic's guide was made before the re-roll system revamp, which I think was during the 66 cap.



Pretty thorough explanation from Flip in SL forums they did the same with PL's luck system at that time.


So I think it would work like you get 2 rolls but the second one is a minimum of the next rarity up from your initial reroll if you do reroll.

Sometimes certain items drop in separate charts like crafting loot is separate from normal gear any many/most maps.

Well I guess Sue already posted link to that quote, I think it refers to all luck elixirs despite only referencing the shamus/asteroid miner.

Yeah I realised that Physiologic's guide is supposed to be different after reading the link that Suentous gave, but forgot to change it in my guide. Nevertheless there is no definite way to calculate your chance of getting a pink with the old reroll system, so I still don't understand Physiologic's guide. Anyway its not about his guide, I made this to show the difference that each elixir makes.

Wagom
12-21-2015, 09:14 AM
Lol just look this
i buy 200% loot + big luck and 1.5 combo and i win just 3 poor pinks :( 144782
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Suentous PO
12-21-2015, 02:12 PM
^ I spent over 500 on classy and shamus and ended up with one menes wing worth jack lel

tHelonestud
12-21-2015, 07:06 PM
Lol just look this
i buy 200% loot + big luck and 1.5 combo and i win just 3 poor pinks :(
All those elixirs and big luck have same reroll chance as the Shamus alone. You can't reroll more than once per item.

Suentous PO
12-21-2015, 08:25 PM
The description on classy is completely wrong. It has nothing to do with class but stats,
and 100% chance is an oxymoron lel