How can or how do bears deal with this? PvP thread.

[Ellyidol]

I've been on PL mostly in PvP rooms only, just gotta say it's really different, both pace and play-wise.

I've also been trying to stay on the traditional melee type bear, dual spec of course.

I definitely need help on these situations, as I'm not exactly sure how to deal with them. Maybe birds/archers/bears can help?


How do str/dual spec (melee) bears deal with the range of birds/mages?

Straight up, bears have Beckon (12m) to combat against the ranged skills of birds/mages, who's skills are also 12m max if I'm not mistaken?

What happens if a bear misses Beckon or pull doesn't work? It's happened, Beckon doesn't "miss" (target is stunned, stars circling head) but it just doesn't pull either.

What now? Assuming Beckon misses, birds can pushback/double root, mages can pushback/double frost. Bears just stand there to take the beating until another Beckon comes up?

If I'm lucky enough to dodge the roots/freezes, I kite until Beckon is up and ready, but if it misses again, back to square one.

Hit isn't really an issue, 92/94 on Fort Set, but I've noticed that the most common trend in PvP now is dodge, birds have em, mages even try to get them.

[Lesrider]

You CHARGE!
Oh wait... Wrong game :p

[Ellyidol]

You CHARGE!
Oh wait... Wrong game :p

LOL!!!!

How I wish we (bears) had charge, it'd really fit well IMO :)

[Lesrider]

LOL!!!!

How I wish we (bears) had charge, it'd really fit well IMO :)

Yep, PL is the only game I don't like playing warrior -- too much swiping at the air.

[Ellyidol]

Yep, PL is the only game I don't like playing warrior -- too much swiping at the air.

Another good point actually!

Still hating how we can slash air, should convert to a Sonic Slash ;) Lol

[NECROREAPER]

I don't deal with it, I die :/

I guess you could say thats how I deal with it :(

[Zeus]

What I do is, flick up heal, stomp out of roots. Then, beckon is normally back up by that time. I beckon again, don't usually miss the second time, scream to stun, then stomp. Then they are usually dead.

[Ellyidol]

What I do is, flick up heal, stomp out of roots. Then, beckon is normally back up by that time. I beckon again, don't usually miss the second time, scream to stun, then stomp. Then they are usually dead.

That's what I try to do too, Stomp out of roots or get the edge of stomp to push them back. If it happens to time with their pushback, we're pretty far apart by then so fight restarts. IF they are in range of Stomp though (8m).

My combo for birds is usually Beckon - CB - Stomp, so it reduces their dodge so my Stomp can connect.

I went a few 1:1s just now with Farking (gf btw), stopped at 5-0, his favor. Fort (me) vs Custom.

Even with Custom gear, where dodge isn't that high, my Beckons at 92/94 Hit % (ring switching) would not connect 2 out of three times. There were 2 duels that I managed to connect on the 3rd Beckon, CB connect, but was too late to let out Stomp, HP was too low.

If it did connect at the first try, the same Hit %/Dodge issue happens with CB, if it connects, then yay a little help for my Stomp to connect. If it doesn't, again issue with my stomp connecting.

End-game PvP is pretty much like a bird/mage game, IMO. Maybe its the price bears pay for twink PvP? Doesn't make sense though, end-game PvP suffers for twink PvP.

[WhoIsThis]

It really depends on your type of opponent. Some bears actually do charge (as in try to run towards their target quickly).

Birds will usually try to hit with blast shot first, and then they may try to root you or perhaps use blinding shot. Some bears I have seen will actually not beckon first. Instead, their combo seems to go something along the lines of:

Taunt > Hell scream > beckon

From there, it becomes either crushing blow or crushing blow and stomp right away for the smash combo. The idea is that you beckon as they try to root you.

On the plus side, beckon has a 12m range, versus birds which are limited to 10m. On top of that, the custom recurve is limited to 10m like all bows. I have noticed that dex bears and dex mages seem to favour the 12m raid roach or custom crossbow whereas birds prefer the custom recurve.

I will assume you mean "Falking" and not "Farking".

[Ellyidol]

Birds are only 10m? Could have never guessed that from how their arrows always seem to hit before my Beckon does, will keep my eyes peeled.

Taunt could be a good indicator of when to use HS/Stomp, but it seems a small waste of that precious second or two just to know if you are within range, IMO.

Falking actually, not Farking, thanks ;)

[WhoIsThis]

Err, to clarify that. I meant the recurve is 10m.

Blast shot and most of the other debuffs (blinding shot, break armor, and I think repulse too) are 12m skills. On the other hand, they do have to close to 8m to use cruel blast. Most birds don't bother though, at least not in 1v1.

Cruel blast though is often used in group fights.

[Ellyidol]

Yeah, they don't have to either. The Cruel combo is pretty much a bonus if they get to do it.

It's probably the Fort/melee set up, back to bow bear I guess.

[WhoIsThis]

The other thing to note is that thorn root is a 10m skill, not a 12m skill. It might buy you some time, as they can't root right away. On the other hand, if your beckon misses and the bird does thorn root you successfully, I hate to admit, I'm at a loss on what you can do. Maybe try hell screaming (and hopefully stunning the target) or stomping the bird away (don't worry about not getting the smash combo - if the bird stays there, even a fortified bear could die)? It makes sense then to go for either break armour or blinding shot at 12m. Not too sure which one is best. Break armour works wonders on the formidable armour that bears wear, but on the other hand, debuffing a strength bear's hit (-30% hit at level 6) could do wonders on the bear's hit% from the bird's point of view.

I know that as a mage, I aim to try to get the bear killed in the first 1-2 volleys. If the fight goes on long enough for my mana shield to go down, the bear has probably won (smash is a one hit ko for mages). With enough lucky crits, it's doable (mages have 72% crit when buffed, so this is not a long shot). For sure though, killing a fortified bird in one volley is doable.


A bit unrelated, but out of curiosity, how do you find the fortified set? It seems to be growing in popularity lately and the prices remain above 3 mill for the full set. There seem to be 2 distinct sides about the end game and what is needed. The fortified advocates argue that the high armour, health regen, and hp bonus from set outstrip any drawbacks and that fortified is the end game set to get for bears. The other side basically argues for maximizing dodge at all costs - they've argued for the royal sewer helm/plate + fury sword/shield combo.

[Ellyidol]

How's Thorn Wall? I notice that Wall is always the one that catches me, it's as if the wall is used in an area, and even if it misses but I walk into that area, the root happens. Might not be the case, just an observation :)

I think the Fort set is okay. Damage is good, but crit isn't. Armour/HS is good, but dodge isn't. To be honest, I'd prefer a Royal Helm/Rooter Sword/Royal Plate/Cleaner or Bellow Shield. Cheap yet effective alternative, IMO.

Fort would have been good, but with the insane crits of the other classes, birds focus and mage crit (like you said, 70% isn't a problem), the high armour isn't that useful since crits are pretty much double damage, while dodge lets you avoid the entire crit.

Although the pure damage of Fort set is good, +32 total additional damage directly added to skills, your Crit % would be best in determining the amount of damage you do.

I'm considering just heading back to bow bear, with different sets. Drainers for tanky, pure damage, balanced set, etc.

[Pokechmp]

Birds are only 10m? Could have never guessed that from how their arrows always seem to hit before my Beckon does, will keep my eyes peeled.
Maybe the crossbows hit farther? Some dex bears just use rage, take out the crossbows, and run backwards. Their out of range for the opponent but can still hit with the crossbow.

[Ellyidol]

Maybe the crossbows hit farther? Some dex bears just use rage, take out the crossbows, and run backwards. Their out of range for the opponent but can still hit with the crossbow.

Yeah I do that too at times, quite risky though. Distance has to be exactly right all the time. But works really well if done right, couple of hits and bird usually dies.

[Riccits]

for twinking works same. but its hard, especially when thers a little minimal lag the distance seems not the same as should normally be..
but i just need to hit him 2-3 times without the other hits me, then i can finish him off with stomp

[WhoIsThis]

How's Thorn Wall? I notice that Wall is always the one that catches me, it's as if the wall is used in an area, and even if it misses but I walk into that area, the root happens. Might not be the case, just an observation :)

Thorn wall I think is 10m and a 10m blast diameter too. Thorn wall does damage over time and debuffs dodge -20%. It seems to do damage over time. It says 16, but I swear, it is more when I'm rooted. The thorn root also debuffs your health regen (-26 H/S according to Physiologic at level 6), which takes a big advantage of bears and enchanted mages away. The biggest advantage of thorn root though is -30% dodge, so if both root and wall hit, you're looking at -50% dodge.

Heal from a mage will break you free from root or freeze and can cure the "dizzy" effect (look for the words "free", "un-rooted", "un-frozen", and "clear headed" over your head). I can't remember what skill breaks free with bear. I think stomp or hell scream.

Edit: I'm not sure why so many bears put a strong emphasis on making their targets "dizzy" or with the stars. Dizzy from birds due to blinding shot debuffs hit% by 30% at level 6. I'm not sure what bear "dizzy" does, although hell scream for bears also debuffs hit%.



Here are the damage ranges though for a level 56 pure dex bird (me) - custom recurve set with champion's fine platinum.

80% crit buffed
Blast shot 6; 344-367 (cruel blast can be lethal when it crits; there have been claims that people have been one hit killed at full hp by a critical cruel blast and given the chances of a bird getting a crit when buffed ...)
Blinding shot 6; 259-323
Repulse 6; 282-301
Avian Scream 1; 233-276
Thorn root - unknown, but expected to be in the range of all of the other skills (high 200s, low 300s)

Well Ellyidol, this is the kind of build that you are going to be up against - the hard numbers. Birds have been considered the "king" of level cap pvp for quite some time, even with the GCD (although dex mages have begun to challenge that recently).

The other huge advantage that birds have is that when you press the button as bird, it is instant. That blast shot flies from your bow when you hit that button. By contrast, for mages, skills like lightning and drain life have a delay or are slower (frostbite). I think beckon has a bit of delay too. It doesn't seem as "fast" as bird skills. Either that or my eyes are messing around with me.



@Pokechimp:

Crossbows and blasters are 12m. Bows are 10m. If I remember correctly, talons are 8m.

[Tempest]

A bird who knows how to pvp will be almost impossible for a bear to kill.
Especially if they wear drainers...

Your beckon will almost fail the whole time, even if you do manage to pull a bird, they can probably repulse (12m) you away and keep kiting you.

Also many pvpers use autobows (12m), which makes it even harder :(

[thugimmortal]

sadly i dont do pvp
i would love to play as im very competitive but i dont see dieing in 2 seconds very sporting.
im making a twink bear whats the ideal level for a pvp busting twink bear

[Ellyidol]

Might sound funny, but I'm actually finding it easier to know distance from my iPad, made sister hide it for a good two weeks so I could study.

Things seem to be picking up, same things still happen occasionally, but they're bound to.

One quick question to mages, is there such a thing as double frozen? I've experienced a few times, a mage freezes me but continues to normal attack, but I still can't move. 0.0

Last I remember, attacking a frozen target breaks freeze no?

[TheLaw]

Might sound funny, but I'm actually finding it easier to know distance from my iPad, made sister hide it for a good two weeks so I could study.

Things seem to be picking up, same things still happen occasionally, but they're bound to.

One quick question to mages, is there such a thing as double frozen? I've experienced a few times, a mage freezes me but continues to normal attack, but I still can't move. 0.0

Last I remember, attacking a frozen target breaks freeze no?

Not in PvP. I've got a few tips on how I PvP with range opponents. but the bad items I use tend to lay me down. I PM-ed you my tips.

[Ellyidol]

Not in PvP. I've got a few tips on how I PvP with range opponents. but the bad items I use tend to lay me down. I PM-ed you my tips.

So there IS a double-freeze, just not in PvP?

And thanks :)

[CrimsonTider]

Im new to this pvp thing too, Elly. Thanks for making this thread because it answers alot of questions people in game won't. I've been told that drainers combined with fortified crown is a good combo for bears. Also the raid/custom autobow as others have mentioned.

But as Thug mentioned, I have a hard time doing something when I die as soon as I spawn on the screen.

[Sun]

So there IS a double-freeze, just not in PvP?

And thanks :)

No, I'm pretty sure freeze doesn't break on damage. Only if you combo while frozen. Aka firestorm, or stomp, or any weapon that has a fire attack will break freeze.

[Ellyidol]

Im new to this pvp thing too, Elly. Thanks for making this thread because it answers alot of questions people in game won't. I've been told that drainers combined with fortified crown is a good combo for bears. Also the raid/custom autobow as others have mentioned.

But as Thug mentioned, I have a hard time doing something when I die as soon as I spawn on the screen.

No worries, I was looking for help more than anything too anyway :)

I've tried full drainers, and prefer it actually. I'm not sure what the Fort Crown would do better than a Drainers Cap, since the point of wearing Drainers would be the dodge and armour.

I also tried switching between Autobow/Recurve sets, and IMO, I like recurves better because of that one reason why autobows are so hard to perfectly use in PvP, its keeping the perfect range that only the autobow (assuming your wearing one and your target isn't) can attack.

Because of that reason, I prefer Recurves because of how fast they attack and the additional base damage they have. Faster attack would maximise Rage more, and more base damage is always good for skills :)



No, I'm pretty sure freeze doesn't break on damage. Only if you combo while frozen. Aka firestorm, or stomp, or any weapon that has a fire attack will break freeze.

Ah, no wonder! Thanks!

Does the gemstone wand proc count as a proc if frozen?

[Caninusi]

Honestly....Id have to say ur toast if ur beckon misses.

If u were pvping a bird they could:

thorn root u to take out ur dodge
break ur armor
combo
take away ur hit and add more dmg with blinding
and then repulse and thorn wall u

Imo....even tho ull possibly called a coward....is to stomp and run till beckon cools down.

[CrimsonTider]

@Elly: Good to know. Will have to try it out tonight.

Question for anyone: does it hurt that I do not have heal as a skill? Because I am a pve'r 99% of the time I neglect this skill to maximize others.

[Ellyidol]

@Elly: Good to know. Will have to try it out tonight.

Question for anyone: does it hurt that I do not have heal as a skill? Because I am a pve'r 99% of the time I neglect this skill to maximize others.

Personal preference I think :)

5 more HS or about 10 more damage from a slash. The way I see it, 5 more HS in a fort set is about 15% more HS for 5 seconds, not great, but it's one point anyway.

[WhoIsThis]

Not 100% sure, but I think that only fire attacks undo freeze. So fire blast and attacks from a fire based weapon. They will usually combo ("ice melt" for wands, and the more potent "face melt" for staffs) when using a fire weapon and "hot flash" for fire blast.

On the other hand, I think repulse from friendly target also undoes freeze.

[CrimsonTider]

Something I just thought of: I know snowball launchers are popular in lower level pvp. Why are they not a good option in upper level (50+)?

[Zeus]

Something I just thought of: I know snowball launchers are popular in lower level pvp. Why are they not a good option in upper level (50+)?

They are way too low damage for that level. :D

[noobmigo]

Maybe its the price bears pay for twink PvP? Doesn't make sense though, end-game PvP suffers for twink PvP.\
Actually.
Bears rule at 10, 15, 20, that's it.
Mages and Birds the rest of the way.

[Tempest]

I also tried switching between Autobow/Recurve sets, and IMO, I like recurves better because of that one reason why autobows are so hard to perfectly use in PvP, its keeping the perfect range that only the autobow (assuming your wearing one and your target isn't) can attack.

Because of that reason, I prefer Recurves because of how fast they attack and the additional base damage they have. Faster attack would maximise Rage more, and more base damage is always good for skills :)

Recuve works a lot better than auto bow for dex bears, since you would want ur enemy to be close to you.

[Caninusi]

\
Actually.
Bears rule at 10, 15, 20, that's it.
Mages and Birds the rest of the way.

Id have to disagree with this point.

I demoed complete dominance between the lvls 1-40 and 50-53.
(having the most kills and least deaths compared to the other classes)
So i do believe bears rule can last longer if u play it rite.xD