Elixirs in new dungeons - pl fixed

[Josephjackson]

I think it would make a better game if elixirs were not allowed in higher level dungeons for a certain amount of time. Enough time for players to reach the maximum level and enjoy their status.

Sure, this could potentially decrease purchases of plat.. But there will soon enough be a time where players can and will buy platinum to level up in these dungeons.

I also think it would make a better game if experiance gained in dungeons was weighted against the level of players in that specific run. This could potentially increase platinum sales and decrease the obsence begging to be leveled up.

And again, I think kills gained and should be weighted against the dungeon you play in. ie. Caves will likely kill many level 55+ players and possibly provide a greater challenge than sewers do - yet, they dont gain kills there.

Player versues player should also be weighted against the player you verse.

I also think that damnage dealt and damnage absorbed should be a factor in experiance gained (xp) and reputation. A tank does not get the respect they deserve. .... Mage, bear or bird Leading a pack, taking aggro and damnaging the enemies for others to come behind and clean up also does not justify "reputation" gained - or lost, again, leader holding aggro and gaining deaths.

In short, please, lets have our leader boards and reputation mean something.

[Josephjackson]

Please, only constructive feed back.

[Otukura]

--Damage absorbed -- so low armor and a low dodge would get you more?

--Caves, also LE and SSC are elite dungeons, I think they should be there.

--Elixirs not allowed "for a certain amount of time" -- can't tell what you're saying.

--"experiance gained in dungeons was weighted against the level of players in that specific run" -- Basically if there's a level 56, XP for everyone goes down?

[Gluttony]

I assume that you mean after a new campaign goes live, elixirs wouldn't be available for that specific campaign for a limited time thus allowing players to enjoy it the way it was meant to be played (at least for a short period). I think it's a sound idea, but plat purchases are necessary to keep upgrades coming and this change would deter from that. I think that people would just avoid the new campaign for a while and just wait until the elixirs are available for them, then continue "begging" the players who took time to grind without.

Kills should be weighted, but sadly they're not. It's a major drawback for the Shadow Caves that even though it presents more of a challenge than any BS campaign, I don't get credit for any kills but deaths are abundant! I imagine those players who care about kdr avoid SC like the black plague.

If my bird takes all the aggro (with bears in the party taking a backseat), deals major damage and still has to share the xp is a moot point at best. The xp gained is so minimal (even at threat level red) that to have to divide it up based on anything besides the kill itself would be a bit pointless.

Finally, I have no idea how you decided "reputation" is gained... so I cannot fully comment on that. The LB is pretty much stacked with boosters so it would be nice to see some sort of system that rewards a different type of player, however LB boosting is a part of almost any online game that has the option so there is really no good way to change that. I know you asked for only constructive feedback, but you don't actually have much to add yourself. It's all just what you don't like with no real alternative; perhaps you should elaborate on what you think is bad then form a plan to fix it.

[Josephjackson]

Yes. I think that if a high lvl player goes to a low level dungeon experiance gained should go down for all characters. Not a popular beleif im sure. But it would eliminate begging to level and cause players to enjoy all maps.. (this would be weighted properly so lets say 5 lvl 20 characters run together for an hour and gain 1500 xp each. Then.. If 4 lvl 20 characters and a lvl 55 run together, experiance gained would still be 1500 xp.

Limiting elixirs use in a new higher level dungeon with higher level caps.. Thats what i was referencing. So.. Lets say sand caves was released june 1st and had a new lvl cap of 61 then for an example, elixirs would not be allowed in sand caves till july 1st.

Shadow caves were merely an example, not a stand alone reference.

Im unsure exactly how people should gain reputation for holding aggro/taking damnage. Complicated with dodge armor ect... but I still think they should

[Josephjackson]

By reptation, im refering to your k/d or the level you hold. And I posted numerous problems and solutions.. Liked your post till the end.

[Kraze]

As much as I loath elixirs they are BIG money makers and I can't see them not being allowed. Would be nice but eh can't see it being done.

[Gluttony]

I understand now how you believe that xp should be scaled down based on the highest player's level (much like how certain items are scaled down), and think that it's a good idea but does have the potential to ruin community cohesiveness. For instance, high level players cannot help lower players complete quests or just plain level up. I know that begging for "powerleveling" is an annoyance, but occasionally there are people who are deserving of help and this would hinder that process. If we remove this aspect of the game, it's also possible that higher level players may get bored as helping a friend level up a toon may be what is keeping them in game. Fact is that currently there is little high level content and sometimes I enjoy helping a group of lower/newer players with some xp and tips. If the xp gets reduced then the incentive for them to want me in the group is far less and they're suddenly left to learn the ropes without a mentor/tutor to help them along the way.

Sorry you disliked my closing argument, but if you create a post with a problem I believe you should have a potential solution as well. Nothing personal, just a belief that I hold.

[Josephjackson]

where did I post a problem without a solution?

I also agree with helping people. I just added a lvl 16 because they said they are six years old. But I dont find people that want knowledge, only lvling and gold.

I also think it would be kinda cool if.. For example, no higher than lvl 50 gear for oasis 3 was allowed and lvl 45 gear for oasis 2 was allowed ect... This would create storage issues... But id also like to see more quests like the cyber quests.

another cool thing would be if you did not have to go to stash to get an item, that if there was a spot next to vanity items for stash. It is a pain to constantly change a recurve set from bear to bird.

I think stash spots could at least be in each city at the spawn point so you could easily transfer items... Then if we could just get people to not stand on the stash avitars.

[Gluttony]

You glossed over the leaderboard (LB) aspect of your post, plenty of people dislike the current LB but offer no other alternative. It's a small annoyance, but if one doesn't like it then one doesn't have to look. Also a death LB stat ftw, that may not be the rep you want to hold down.

Sorry that you don't run into players seeking knowledge, I come across them frequently but yes players mainly want gold and to get leveled and that's just how it is. The gear restrictions would be a pain, it would force players to hold onto lower level gear to gain access to lower campaigns, it would cause higher levels to die in lower campaigns much more frequently and they still wouldn't get credit for kills even though they lowered themselves to the mob's level (minus the skill/stat increases), and overall I just think it would force higher levels to avoid low campaigns altogether.

Stashing an item from inventory would be awesome... period. Having a stash NPC near spawn would cut down on time, but only by seconds at most. A new NPC for stash was added to FH so that is a step in the right direction. Side note: I found the cyber quests quite boring, it's the same rinse/repeat quests that are abundant throughout this game and make the entire quest system a boring add-on, imo.

[Josephjackson]

Lb?

[Josephjackson]

gear could also be scaled back according to the dungeon you are in.

[Gluttony]

LB stands for leaderboard.

Are you suggesting that gear, no matter the level would lose stats based on the dungeon level cap? For example, my Raid Roach set would lose ~25 levels worth of stats if I entered the Frozen Nightmare campaign with it equipped? If I understand you, this wouldn't actually fix the problem the only thing it would accomplish is allow players to continue to wear the same gear to gain access to any dungeon. It would still cause high level players to be handicapped in lower level dungeons, and thus cause some (or more) to avoid those dungeons at all costs.

What I'm saying is there is no actual pay off for a higher level toons to join lower level dungeons with this system that you're suggesting. If a player cannot gain kills/xp for entering the map and are crippled to the level of the mobs, why bother at all?

[Fyrce]

Why do we want higher level toons to join lower level dungeons...?

[Gluttony]

Because if we lock them into one campaign more and more people will take extended breaks or quit outright. Sometimes a change of scenery is a good thing.

[Josephjackson]

I also mentioned that if a lvl 55 goes to forest haven, it seems that after thousands of kills or what ever is appropreit, they sould gain at least one kill.

And as it is, I think high lvl toons in low lvls is not good. I do not see a problem with an eliteplayer being lvled... But I am disapointed when newbs are lvled.. Maybe I shouldnt be..

[Josephjackson]

Im sorry, I deleted the forest haven reference. But it is there now :-)

[Conradin]

Many player farm expensive swamp items/recipes/rares/collectables in lower dungeons. If you R penalized before you go in many players would not farm items, get bored and quit.

[Gluttony]

There's the additional point that if the higher level players cannot farm for low level items, then those item will become scarce and the economy would suffer.

[Josephjackson]

I question both points. I think that if what I am talking about was in place, then people could make similar claims about changing that.

I think your feed back is awesome. But less lvl 30 gear?... Harder to farm gold... ? I dont see that as a bad thing. With less gold, things would have to cost less gold.. And items that are disbanned now maybe appreciated.

I see it as making all maps relevant.. Adding to the diversity of the game and possibly overal enjoyment. As it stands, it seems the same maps are played over and over.. Instead of of five sewer maps, keeper, plasma pyrmid, or whatever, all maps could be enjoyed by all players at any point. Now I think that would be cool.

[skavenger216]

I question both points. I think that if what I am talking about was in place, then people could make similar claims about changing that.

I think your feed back is awesome. But less lvl 30 gear?... Harder to farm gold... ? I dont see that as a bad thing. With less gold, things would have to cost less gold.. And items that are disbanned now maybe appreciated.

I see it as making all maps relevant.. Adding to the diversity of the game and possibly overal enjoyment. As it stands, it seems the same maps are played over and over.. Instead of of five sewer maps, keeper, plasma pyrmid, or whatever, all maps could be enjoyed by all players at any point. Now I think that would be cool.

All maps can be enjoyed by all players at any point, as long as you meet the minimum level requirement. With all due respect, what you are suggesting would make old content flat out unenjoyable for people that are a higher level. Not a good idea, IMO. You don't want to alienate the high level players, we worked for our level and gear, and we should be able to enjoy it in any area without penalty. I think the fact that kills are not counted is more than fair enough.

[Ayc2000]

I question both points. I think that if what I am talking about was in place, then people could make similar claims about changing that.

I think your feed back is awesome. But less lvl 30 gear?... Harder to farm gold... ? I dont see that as a bad thing. With less gold, things would have to cost less gold.. And items that are disbanned now maybe appreciated.

I see it as making all maps relevant.. Adding to the diversity of the game and possibly overal enjoyment. As it stands, it seems the same maps are played over and over.. Instead of of five sewer maps, keeper, plasma pyrmid, or whatever, all maps could be enjoyed by all players at any point. Now I think that would be cool.
items would become rarer and everything would go up in price. then only the people with money already would have good items...
its fun joining high level parties too, and in sewers, I always try to go to a group with atleast a lvl 54 or something. also if the party was all lower leveled they would die more often, which is not as enjoyable.

[csb]

I think it would make a better game if elixirs were not allowed in higher level dungeons for a certain amount of time. Enough time for players to reach the maximum level and enjoy their status.

Sure, this could potentially decrease purchases of plat.. But there will soon enough be a time where players can and will buy platinum to level up in these dungeons.

First you say don't allow elixirs for a period of time util players reach a maximum level. Then you say after thay they can use the elixirs to level up. But, wouldn't they already be leveled up. And, people level at different rates, so how long is this period.

I'm not sure what your point is except maybe you think it's not fair? Well, I don't use elixirs, and am leveling to 56 just fine, maybe a little slower than other people. But, I don't mind others using elixirs. Actually, I like it, since it makes the group better. When nobody has elixirs, it can sometimes take a long time to kill the sewer queen/roach/gf/etc.


I also think it would make a better game if experiance gained in dungeons was weighted against the level of players in that specific run. This could potentially increase platinum sales and decrease the obsence begging to be leveled up.

This just creates another reason to boot people. So, I will have to boot everyone higher level than me because they slow down my xp. But, I don't know how xp reballancing for the group is related to platinum sales. Also, nothing can stop the begging, it's a strange psychological problem some people have. When you see begging, just add the name to your ignore list.


And again, I think kills gained and should be weighted against the dungeon you play in. ie. Caves will likely kill many level 55+ players and possibly provide a greater challenge than sewers do - yet, they dont gain kills there.

I ignore the kills/death stats. It's a useless stat. If you have a little android phone your going to have more deaths from lag than someone with and ipad2. Also, if someone does a lot of solo farming for gold at the minimum level for a dungeon, then he will have a lot of deaths due to the difficulty and risk. The farmer with a lot of deaths may have much better skills that the person that only plays in nice safe groups with high level friends (thus having few deaths).


I also think that damnage dealt and damnage absorbed should be a factor in experiance gained (xp) and reputation. A tank does not get the respect they deserve. .... Mage, bear or bird Leading a pack, taking aggro and damnaging the enemies for others to come behind and clean up also does not justify "reputation" gained - or lost, again, leader holding aggro and gaining deaths.

In short, please, lets have our leader boards and reputation mean something.

So, people that top a leader board get more armor class and more damage stats? That's an awful idea. I would resist anything that makes a casual player a second class citizen. This is just another attempt to make a elite class. PL is nice because anyone can play and join any group, no matter how much time they put into the game. It would really suck if the game got the the point that I get booted from a group because I'm not high enough on a leader board.

[Silentarrow]

where did I post a problem without a solution?

I also agree with helping people. I just added a lvl 16 because they said they are six years old. But I dont find people that want knowledge, only lvling and gold.
I also think it would be kinda cool if.. For example, no higher than lvl 50 gear for oasis 3 was allowed and lvl 45 gear for oasis 2 was allowed ect... This would create storage issues... But id also like to see more quests like the cyber quests.
another cool thing would be if you did not have to go to stash to get an item, that if there was a spot next to vanity items for stash. It is a pain to constantly change a recurve set from bear to bird.

I think stash spots could at least be in each city at the spawn point so you could easily transfer items... Then if we could just get people to not stand on the stash avitars.

I disagree, the good part of being a high level is to be able to equip your powerful gears. Though I wouldn't mind seeing some quests which require you to wear certain armors.

[Josephjackson]

I think that I either over estimate the ability for the developers to balence the game, or others under estimate it. I was bored and went to balefort castle without gear, it was an easy play.. I consider that map dead to my high level characters. I am also questioning that people should be able to acheive lvl 56 without one death or kill.

Im confused how it seems that I want an "elite" class. By damnage dealt and damnage absorbed, I am saying that people should be rewarded for for using their characters effectively.

Apparently this is a lost battle. The majority of the players will have doctored stats such as... Thousands of pvp kills and one death. And they will be leveled up. Im just disapointed that there is a useless recorded kept of your journey... Along with other factors, oh well I guess. No one seems to agree :)

Other games have better methods of doing some things I described.

[Josephjackson]

I have three 55s.

[Ayc2000]

I think that I either over estimate the ability for the developers to balence the game, or others under estimate it. I was bored and went to balefort castle without gear, it was an easy play.. I consider that map dead to my high level characters. I am also questioning that people should be able to acheive lvl 56 without one death or kill.

Im confused how it seems that I want an "elite" class. By damnage dealt and damnage absorbed, I am saying that people should be rewarded for for using their characters effectively.

Apparently this is a lost battle. The majority of the players will have doctored stats such as... Thousands of pvp kills and one death. And they will be leveled up. Im just disapointed that there is a useless recorded kept of your journey... Along with other factors, oh well I guess. No one seems to agree :)

Other games have better methods of doing some things I described.
We aren't asking for rewards though. Remember that this game is a way to have fun, kill/death ratio is not that important to many people. Mostly, we all just want to have fun and goof around in dungeons. Let those people powerlevle, cause they are only ruining their own play experience. No matter what, there will always be beggers, like in rl, so ignore them. Just relax, I think the dev team has done a great job already, and some of your ideas are good, so when they read it, they might take your ideas into consideration :) i do not want to sound critical here, so sorry if I come across that way :o

[Otukura]

Im confused how it seems that I want an "elite" class. By damnage dealt and damnage absorbed, I am saying that people should be rewarded for for using their characters effectively.


Don't get us wrong, I feel I can speak for anyone when saying this, we all want it. But implementing is is just iffy, I don't think they're any foolproof way. A bear can take no damage by dodging(I said before) or even better, keeping all the mobs perma-stunned, so they can't even attack.

[Gluttony]

Apparently this is a lost battle. The majority of the players will have doctored stats such as... Thousands of pvp kills and one death. And they will be leveled up. Im just disapointed that there is a useless recorded kept of your journey... Along with other factors, oh well I guess. No one seems to agree :)

I don't think it's a lost battle, just that what you are suggesting is difficult to implement in a way that will benefit everyone. Yes, there are plenty of players who have boosted stats, it's usually quite obvious but we all choose to ignore it. Those players do it for the fame that being on the LB brings, it's not like there is any special reward for that achievement so it's pretty much for the amusement. Saying the majority of players do it is a bit of an overstatement.

It's disappointing to know that high level toons don't get even a fraction of a kill for being in a low level dungeon, pretty weak that only the person to get the last shot on an enemy gets all the credit, but once you modify those systems it will eventually become balanced toward another class. For instance, if the toon that does the most damage on an enemy gets the kill, bears will suffer as their DPS is atrocious. You could potentially have a high level bear (56 even) without a single kill because he never did the majority of damage to any single target. I understand that you would like a game that uses the mechanics of other RPGs in which mages are rewarded for healing/reviving, archers are rewarded for attacking, and bears are rewarded for... for... um... being bears.

[joopiduh]

Going through your points:

on elixirs - using elixirs is a choice and it should remain at that. If your gripe is that players' stats (d/k rate) are inflated due to the use of elixirs, then the following would curb that, along with a few of your other contentions.

1) You earn xp only on what you kill. Exp caps should still be on each dungeon.
2) When you die, you lose xp.

How does it help? Well, power-levelling will no longer exist. If a player goes into a dungeon where they don't get xp, and blasts everything in sight, then the lower level player will get zilch. And since the higher level player does not get xp in that dungeon, they also get zilch. Powerlevelling becomes pointless.

But if you're there to help a friend, you would hang back in support. Your friend gets the kill and the xp. This would in essence take over the "weighted" mechanism you propose. And probably teach the lower levels a thing or two about cooperation and the game itself.

Now you may say with this, birds will level up the fastest. Not true. Bears have less kills but dies less (less xp lost). Birds have high kills but dies easily. Mages are in between. So they still balance out in the end. Even if you're dual speccing. A bear attempting to go Dex for more damage would already find their armor going down, making them easier to kill. And if your xp loss just happens to knock you back a level... well, then you would have to re-examine the way you play ;) Doesn't matter if you have high dodge or low dodge. A death is still a death.

But higher levels can still farm lower level dungeons. In the current environment, they are not getting xp anyway. But if they fall asleep farming, well, too bad, they would get killed and lose xp :)

As for pvp, I don't think anything should be changed. A level 15 shouldn't challenge a level 55, full stop. Player versus Player, see?

[Gluttony]

1) You earn xp only on what you kill. Exp caps should still be on each dungeon.
2) When you die, you lose xp.


First, level 56 would have to be locked since you cannot gain any xp and a death would knock you back to 55 no matter what. Other than that it could be a solid plan. I think that higher levels would still help their friends, but they would try to soften an enemy up and allow the lower level to finish them off.

[Josephjackson]

Hahaha u and traps have a special relationship. One of the funniest pl moments was taunting over a gate, wish u were there to see.

[davidis57]

I like the way things are except for two things. Increase the XP earned in the sewers. Getting less than 100 xp per run (hideout) at lvl 54-55 is nuts. Also increase the gold output.

[Gluttony]

I like the way things are except for two things. Increase the XP earned in the sewers. Getting less than 100 xp per run (hideout) at lvl 54-55 is nuts. Also increase the gold output.

The xp in Hideout (as well as all BS maps) is exactly the same as it would be in any other campaign, then you're -1 level below cap the threat level is low and therefore you only gain 1xp per kill. Also, the gold output is on par compared to other campaigns there just aren't as many drops so you don't make gold as fast as you would in say AO3 because you fill and liquidate your inventory every other run.

[apocketlegend]

Hmmm I can see everyones point.. But you have to understand when a new map comes out it's going to be difficult Bc you dont know it's enimes skills, how quick you can die, or if there is any trapps(sewer was quite a surprise) anyways it takes time for maps to get easier.... Just like new shoes, you have to wear them to make them comfy Bc they form around your foot.... In many ways form around the campaign and know what it is.... In Wich I think this is how the campaign my seem easier(over time that is)