Mages are over appreciated

[Josephjackson]

First, I do not beleive the tittle. yet.... Mages frequently get thanked for using their skills. I have never been thanked for taunting in a mob with my bear or spending 50 k at a time on potions with my bird.. yet when I get on mage, I am frequently thanked for doing what I am suppose to do.

I posted this because some mages have been mad about using their skills.

Know your role and do it well, u will be loved.

[Otukura]

I wouldn't say over appreciated.. but the other classes are under appreciated.

Taunting a mob indirectly helps the rest of the characters, but reviving a party member is direct help. If I don't say thanks, I'll still mean it.

[WhoIsThis]

It depends on who you're running with IMO. I've seen parties where birds and bears refuse to use any potions just because there are mages in the party. And mages seem to get cursed at the most too. I've heard people go "rez me already you ----".

I don't think mages are overappreciated at all. However, I do feel at times that bears are unfairly treated.

[KingFu]

I don't think they are over appreciated personally. Archers get not appreciation most of the time because they don't play a big special, noticeable roll (Mages heal and rev, and have those big AoE skills, bears beckon and group and taunt, archers skills aren't as noticeable when they're hit).

I personally thank a mage only when they rev (not always) unless they're just learning. I look at it as, it's their job and duty. It's what they're supposed to do. I just thank for rev so that I don't come off rude.

[Hankomachos]

Hey Joe it's hankomachos

[Uepauke]

It's probably because of visibility of what you are doing. I admit that, now that I have been playing a lo level farming bear, I have an idea about what taunt etc looks like, but all I knew before was that bears somehow 'managed' a boss/mob and 'did things' to the aggro! It's not that I didn't appreciate it--it is always very clear when a bear isn't doing what he's meant to do, everybody ends up dead, or, as a mage, I notice that my healing isn't doing much to keeping party levels up--it's just that I couldn't tell when it was happening.

I guess it's the same way some people can't tell that a mage IS spamming heal, don't know that fast green glow is heal. Just as mages don't get thanked for this for that reason, bears also don't get thanked for taunting and so forth. Also, I'm not sure if people do a similar thing to bears, but mages who are already spamming heal occasionally get told to 'spam heal,' forgetting about skill cooldown (I have so far managed not to succumb to the temptation to stop healing).

Actually, I personally don't think I need to be thanked for doing my job... what I would like is that people stick closer together in teams, and not wander away, because it's tough, in a close fight, to walk away from the team to rez--then sometimes the whole team can end up dead :( Because I use the iphone to play, it's sometimes hard to find a player that's died away from my screen--I even ask people to emote fireworks to help!

I'm not saying this is a good thing... I do, however, try to show my appreciation for bear roundups--amazing stuff, guys! I certainly can't do it with my dex/int mage.

[Gluttony]

I think that mages are appreciated just enough to not come off as rude because another player is using their mana for your gain directly. Sure it's in their job description, but they could just leave your corpse there to rot so a tyvm isn't too much to ask. In comparison to the other types out there, bears are mob control and if a player has never used a bear class then they cannot fully appreciate what it takes to be successful in that class. We've all seen the bears that spam stomp and blast the enemies so far that they reset and it's quite annoying, so when you see a bear doing his job you appreciate it a bit but quietly. No thank you for holding aggro, or for stomping that entire mob into the wall... it's an unrecognized but appreciated art. Now I personally believe that birds are the more unappreciated class out there (perhaps I'm biased because my main is a bird, but whatever), simply because of the sheer damage they put out causes them to frequently take aggro from even the best bears. Without much in the way or armor, getting the bosses attention for even the shortest amount of time can get a bird barbecued in a hurry.

I quite frequently see people thank a mage for reviving/spamming heal, I occasionally see a team thank a bear for a good wall stomp/maintaining aggro, but I've never seen anyone thank a bird for doing constant damage to a single target while maintaining aggro and staying alive so that the rest of the party could focus on their job without the worry of death... but hey, it's all in the job title.

[Josephjackson]

Hahaha, entertaining read.. Now to get my other posts to end up like this.

[Pandamoni]

I don't always say thanks when I get rez'd but that's just because sometimes I'm busy playing or because I'm getting 100 tells or spam invites while playing. I think it's funny when people get all huffy when you don't say thanks :P

[Pharcyde]

I don't look at the class, I look at the player. If they do their job, they give a big ol thankyou for doing it right.

[wvhills]

As you can see from my sig I have all 3 classes of toons and the mage is my lowest level (plus my newest). I personally think mage is the funnest to play. :)
Before I became a mage I still thanked for resses just to be polite but I didn't like too, haha. I thought "I don't get thanked for my awesome combo and crits (when playing bird) or for keeping the boss and mobs away from the fragile mage and birds (when a bear)". But after I made a mage I realized that the other classes really aren't that necessary (please don't hate me!). Yes, it's nice to have a bear to control crowds and boss fights go a lot faster with a bird or two but a group of all mages can kill stuff whether they are clumped in nice little groups or not and if they do get aggro at the boss there's always a high mana regen and mana shield.

[Gluttony]

(please don't hate me!).

Can't hate on you for that, it's quite true that the mage is the most versatile class in the game. They can deal damage comparable to a bird, and are the only class that can group heal and revive. With so many different builds for the mage (pally, pure, dex) a group of all mages may still have ranged, melee and support fighters. I know that there's an influx of dexbears, but the warbirds are pretty much extinct so the mage is the only class that really utilizes all the stat builds.

[Redbridge]

Guilty as charged.... I'll often say ty to mages for a rev, occasionally congratulate a bear for good bearyness, but rarely thank our avian chums...

Ima gonna change my ways and try to send love and thanks out equally across all classes... Where it's deserved.

Nice thread...

[Tamino]

Guilty as charged.... I'll often say ty to mages for a rev, occasionally congratulate a bear for good bearyness, but rarely thank our avian chums...
I played all three classes up to 55 (Bird is 56), and I got tanked always as mage, occasionally complimented as bear (only for roundups/queen pulls, once for tanking Fridge), but never as bird. My satisfaction is to see the number of boots and mumbles when team hasn't any bird... Now you remember how much important a bird is !

[wvhills]

tamino I always try to thank you for revving my bird in shadow caves. haha.

[Lowlyspy]

Personally in some cases I think mages are a little under appreciated. My main is a mage and ive jumped into numerous parties where I was the only mage and every two seconds someone died and started spamming "rez" and as soon as I revved them two others start spamming the same thing, it gets hard to keep up and people start getting attitudes toward you for not revving them when they want to get revved.

And ur right birds and bears are under appreciated, the fact that birds have armor break makes them, I think, the most essential to any successful team. And bears sheer armor and aggro-attracting power also make them a big help to any team that is trying to take out large amounts of mobs or single bosses.

To make up that lack of appreciation, if any bears or birds are reading this id like to say..

THANK YOU!! (^_^)

[Pharcyde]

Avian's have no roll, they just try to ninja your kills :(...

Jk, I confess to being a nuke ninja :rolleyes:.

[OrangeDreams]

I always thank a good bear, usually after the boss.

Mages may be overthanked, but they're also the class peolle get the most pissy towards. My skill-sequence is such that heal gets pressed each time it comes off cooldown, yet every day you get some irritating bird or bear, "spam heal plz." Or even one time, "spam heal b----s." So far I've simply ignored such rudeness and gone on with the run, but from now on I've decided I will leave any game where a bird or bear starts making with that tone of entitlement. They can spam health pots and respawn if they'll be like that.

Yesterday I ran with a completely obnoxious bear who kept criticizing the party's mage and bird despite his own lackluster crowd control. He'd round the mob up and then run off immediately, leaving the two damage-dealers to contend for a few seconds with the stragglers who didn't die immediately in the first wave of combos. Meanwhile he's 20 feet ahead with the next mob bound against the wall, alone and futilely slapping them with his 1h sword. (Additionally our fights were continually near fire traps.) Bout 1/3 way through the run he says, "I'm not going to gather." What the heck? Can you imagine the crap a mage would catch if they announced they would no longer heal or res?

It is very true though that bear skills are the most underapprciated. I have an alt bear and crowd control is really not an easy thing to learn.

As for thanking birds: I think I may begin thanking any damage-dealer who whips out the 2h wep for a boss fight. I've seen an absurd amount of blizz-stick boss fights lately, and boy do they drag on. Break out the staff/bow!


edit - How powerful is the bird's break armor compared to nightmare? I've wondered about this for a long time but most skill descrips out there are so vague as to be useless.

[Gluttony]

As for thanking birds: I think I may begin thanking any damage-dealer who whips out the 2h wep for a boss fight. I've seen an absurd amount of blizz-stick boss fights lately, and boy do they drag on. Break out the staff/bow!

There it is, you acknowledge that birds can make a boss fight loads easier but you still have to "begin" thanking them. I do understand that crowd control is an art, but something that may get overlooked is that the more damage you deal, the more attention you demand. If I pull out that Custom Recurve set and start chaining combos on GF, guess who is getting fever round after round... that's right, your friendly neighborhood avian that's who. Now if I cannot get a mage revive me after I go all out like that without sending a thank you his way, I'll be content using my stick and shield set and slowly whittle away at the boss' hp and remain aggro-free.

[OrangeDreams]

There it is, you acknowledge that birds can make a boss fight loads easier but you still have to "begin" thanking them. I do understand that crowd control is an art, but something that may get overlooked is that the more damage you deal, the more attention you demand. If I pull out that Custom Recurve set and start chaining combos on GF, guess who is getting fever round after round... that's right, your friendly neighborhood avian that's who. Now if I cannot get a mage revive me after I go all out like that without sending a thank you his way, I'll be content using my stick and shield set and slowly whittle away at the boss' hp and remain aggro-free.

This is hardly specific to birds. In games without a good tank (which is most the time) it seems I'm usually stuck with the aggro, since a weird amount of birds/mages in pug don't max out their dmg-dealing ability. Or if they do they don't survive very well once they do get aggro. Mana shield, maxed BoV, health pot spamming and decent kiting ability usually means I'm the dmg-dealer that can take and keep aggro. This has never really struck me as a job that should require thanks.

Then there's also the fact that heal and the higher armor mages generally have both draw aggro, I believe.

But really, if you're consistently using a shield in boss fights as a bird I could see why you feel unthanked. Mage 1h weapons are not totally nerfy, but bird 1h weps are pretty much useless. What's the point?

[Gluttony]

This is hardly specific to birds. In games without a good tank (which is most the time) it seems I'm usually stuck with the aggro, since a weird amount of birds/mages in pug don't max out their dmg-dealing ability.

Agreed, not specific to all birds, but those birds that focus strictly on DEX and use a 2H high end weapon/set. PUGs are unpredictable at best; sometimes bears don't taunt or mages don't heal and it can quite easily turn into a free-for-all out there. All I'm saying is that birds with the right build can easily take aggro away from bears or mages, and they don't have the luxury of an insane amount of hp or a mana shield. All one can do at that point is use Evasion and hope for the best while kiting and praying that some reckless bear or mage doesn't hurl that boss right at you.

Edit: The point of a talon/shield set is survivability. If the group isn't working out well together, it's every man, animal, and mythical creature for themselves! The talon/shield is the avian version of a mana shield, it's our last line of defense. Also, I personally switch between Custom set and Sewer set for bosses, depending on how long they may take and if I have the mana pots to grind them out. Still I'm not saying I want or even expect a thank you, just pointing out that I've never actually saw anyone thank a bird no matter what their accomplishments were in battle.

[ECHUSER]

also, rev and heal require mages to look at the health of other players as they're playing which is something i never do when playing w my bear and bird and this does adds a new dynamic to the game as a mage.

[Lowlyspy]

also, rev and heal require mages to look at the health of other players as they're playing which is something i never do when playing w my bear and bird and this does adds a new dynamic to the game as a mage.

I guess but if ur a skilled mage (or even a mediocre one for that matter) looking at others health should be second nature. I do it constantly without even realizing it

[OrangeDreams]

Hehe, I love how you describe the chaos of pug. It can sure be frustrating, but I just love the ad hoc-ness of it all. And learning to do levels you've run over and over already with an unorthodox team can keep the game kinda fresh. : ) My favorite is 4 bears and 1 mage - such a unique challenge! Once did 4 birds and Mage - 0.0

I don't really get why talons are so underpowered, or why birds can't have 1h guns. The DPS class becomes totally neutered as soon as they equip a shield? I think it's just a little extreme. I haven't used my bird alt much precisely because I don't like the idea of a wing pretty much never being an option - limits the different eq setups too much.

[Gluttony]

also, rev and heal require mages to look at the health of other players as they're playing which is something i never do when playing w my bear and bird and this does adds a new dynamic to the game as a mage.

I wouldn't say it requires you to look at the health, you can just spam heal when mobs are present. As for revive, you should be able to see all your party members at any given time, but that big red exclamation point is pretty obvious. I look at the party status section to see what skills the other players are using, what buffs are in play and who is taking aggro, so it's not just for mages to use it's a tool for the entire party no matter which class you are.

[StompArtist]

Revving folks doesn't cost a thing.

[Gluttony]

Revving folks doesn't cost a thing.

Well that depends on who you run into in the vast realm that is Alterra, I recall a time when reviving cost plat and mages would hold your life hostage and only commit to a revival spell if they received due compensation.

[Tvis]

I think most everyone has a silent gratefulness for the other players in the team. Mages get the most verbal thanks, but I think that the thanks is shared equally. Archers send a massive load of damage on the enemies with ranged attacks (which helps a lot). Warriors attract the mobs and bosses and take the hit for the team (too bad that the pull isn't very effective). I play all three classes and have seen what they can do. I think the love is shared all ways, just not literally being told "thank you."

[Mennddoza]

I appreciate the player in how they play, their attitude to me and other players, and there communication skills. I have played with a mage that said "pay me to revive you" and that really made me angry! >:[

Archers should be more appreciated for their damage... Without an archer in Balefort Sewers most of the Main Bosses would take a long time. For example the Bandit Queen. Very difficult for a group to beat without the DPS of an Archer!!

[WhoIsThis]

It's interesting to note that a lot of players here insist that the class of their main character is the most "under-appreciated" class.

I suspect that birds are probably getting the appreciation that they deserve. True, they do (in theory at least) the most damage per on a single target. On the other hand, individual players will differ. I was once in a party with myself, a second pure int, a dex mage, a pally, and a bear. I have a rough idea of how long it takes to kill the queen. In that case, that party managed to kill the Queen faster than parties where I've seen 2 birds in.

The other question becomes, what do birds and bears expect? To be thanked individually by the host at the end of each run? Even mages, whom the OP considers "over-appreciated" don't get that treatment.

[Fyrce]

I think people show appreciation when they group with me or play with me.

Yes verbal thinks is nice. It does seem to be more frequent with mages, but I've gotten thanked on my bear for being a good bear -- some people can be quite fawning, in fact. I've also been asked to help kill x, y, z on my bird and personally, when I play my bird, I'm very happy when something dies quickly -- people DO know it's the bird -- or when I get the boss chasing me a lot, cause I know I'm doing my job. Of course, I would hope the bear would rope the boss in most of the time and my slave-mages throw heals so birdie can do his job :)

I've been in lots of groups where, when someone leaves or when we're breaking up, everyone thanks each other for great runs. And we all friend each other. I think that's appreciation and more than enough of it.

Actually when a group is going well, we've already been laughing and talking and goofing about with emotes or chat and otherwise having fun, so appreciation is already obvious.

PL players are super nice!

For the above reasons, I also do not friend bears who do not know to lead at all, mages who do not heal or rev, and birds who cannot seem to do any damage, though the player really would have to be pretty bad. I'm also a bit stricter about a high level than a low level. I think by about level 20, a player should realize they've got skills and be trying to use those skills.

[Wretch]

Grrr.... On this subject... Joined a PUG on my 26 bear that was going to be a 35 twink(now changed to tank)... Just played w/ a lvl 27 Mage with a 2h sword that all they did was hack and slash... Other bear died... I cleared mob group... Stopped, and asked Mage why they were not using ANY skills whatsoever... They took off and started fighting more mobs... No rev for fallen bear, they respawned at entrance.... During my typing(also my fault) Mage brought back a group to me.... Resulting in my alts first death (oh well, it happens)... Then promptly leaves game....

I will refuse to play with another Mage of this sort, the bears and birds during this game were definitely ok in my book... If I could remember their name I would thank them... But this Mage makes me regret my main Mage....

End rant... Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes, as well as grammar, etc... On phone, so it's a bit tricky!

[Tvis]

Grrr.... On this subject... Joined a PUG on my 26 bear that was going to be a 35 twink(now changed to tank)... Just played w/ a lvl 27 Mage with a 2h sword that all they did was hack and slash... Other bear died... I cleared mob group... Stopped, and asked Mage why they were not using ANY skills whatsoever... They took off and started fighting more mobs... No rev for fallen bear, they respawned at entrance.... During my typing(also my fault) Mage brought back a group to me.... Resulting in my alts first death (oh well, it happens)... Then promptly leaves game....

I will refuse to play with another Mage of this sort, the bears and birds during this game were definitely ok in my book... If I could remember their name I would thank them... But this Mage makes me regret my main Mage....

End rant... Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes, as well as grammar, etc... On phone, so it's a bit tricky!

I once played AO3 with a mage that thought Heal was Rev! Situations like these are frustrating, but it gives us opportunities to help people learn.

[Fastcast]

I agree I jus do what a mage does nothing more I try to keep anyone from dying and if u die ur reved before u can type it xDDD

[Piosidon]

I'd just like to point out that the 3-sec cool down for heal is longer than you think

[LelouchX]

This was a very entertaining read. I have 3 toons and my bear was my third. He quickly became my favorite. I think tanking is exteremely fun and much more fun than any of the other classes. However, this game does not separate heling "mages" from attack "mages" mages are expected to do all and when i run as my elf, i am constantly thanked when i rez. i reply "np, just doing my job." I have never seen anyone thank a bear, but when i started tanking, i starte realizing what is involved. When i am with a good tank, i make sure he is appreciated, at least by me. I have only seen someone thank a bird when fighing OL or the shadow bosses that have shields. I have never been thanked on my bear or bird :-(

[LelouchX]

Revving folks doesn't cost a thing.

You are correct sir! No elf spells really cost a thing. In most cases, i never use pots. Mana regen is so high the only time they are needed is if the shield is on and they get too much aggro. On another note, idk how true this is for a dex mage. i had mine as a paly for levels 40-45 and had no mana issues

[LADYHADASSA]

Depends on who you run with, i oersonaly oraise a good team in group efforts, i run my mage the most and yes peeps say thank you all the time i suppose that is because there was an instant blessing, so many people where taught to say ty, when people do somthing for them often without thought..

A well run map is ripe for group praise i love a tank who knows how to do theur job well, with the newngroup combos its not so easy to forget that our dex partners rock :) after playing all classes most appreciate good game skills from all classes. :)

[Sigkill]

I think running through like 20 grates just to save your sorry self, because you didn't do your job correctly merits a simple "ty"

[Zeus]

Depends on who you run with, i oersonaly oraise a good team in group efforts, i run my mage the most and yes peeps say thank you all the time i suppose that is because there was an instant blessing, so many people where taught to say ty, when people do somthing for them often without thought..

A well run map is ripe for group praise i love a tank who knows how to do theur job well, with the newngroup combos its not so easy to forget that our dex partners rock :) after playing all classes most appreciate good game skills from all classes. :)

New GOA, right here? I think so :D. Sending recommendation, now!

[Sigkill]

New GOA, right here? I think so :D. Sending recommendation, now!

I'm so used to correcting all my friends essays that I really want to correct her post in proper English grammar :)

[davidis57]

Its so true that each class has its use and when used effectively can make a group very proficient. When I play my bird I use root on mobs and watch mages wreak havoc with the lightning. Break armor on bosses. When using my mage I try to watch everyones health and rez when needed.

I am not a talker in game I do my job and others do there's. Its not I don't appreciate what other players do its just awkward trying to type and kill at the same time. Even when I die I am quiet about it. If a mage steps over my corpse and doesn't revive I may just leave. I very rarely host games but one time I did the mage did not rez so I kicked him. I play a mage and sometimes lag keeps rez from activating. You have to keep that in mind sometimes when server is laggy. I got cussed out once cause a player died and because of lag he did not show up on my screen or could not locate him.

Pocket Legends Characters Timbabird -55 Oldsillymage -55

[LelouchX]

I'm so used to correcting all my friends essays that I really want to correct her post in proper English grammar :)

Hahahahah, I love it! I took Latin in high school and more than anything it taught me proper grammar! I too am the one that everyone asks to read and correct essays!

[AnRK]

After learning how to effectively play (at least as much as I have so far) all 3 chars I never take anyone for granted. I can't chat while in game as the keyboard takes up most of my screen and lags a bit so one line of chat is up to 5 seconds of downtime for my char's playtime (not good when all it can take is a sec or two to die in ao3). So I have 'thx', 'great job gang', and 'you guys rocked' preprogrammed so that I can show appreciation across the board. Since I play mostly in PUGs I can honstely say that I don't get to use them as often as I would like but love it when I can. My last one is 'yer welcome' for those that do thank me for rezing them and for those that have bitched cause I didn't rez them fast enough (guess cooldown means shyte to many peeps) as I can't help being a smart a$$ at times. LOL. Yes, I have played many times with mages who walk past my corpse and keep going without a rez, bears who scatter the mob to kingdom come/out of the room, and birds who hang back hardly using their bows - that's the nature of PUGs. When I run into those circumstances I just leave the group and find another or just make my own PUG. Either way appreciation is in the eye of the beholder - if I have spent a whole game rezing everyone without a thanx but we've all worked well as a group then the xp/loot I get is more than enough thanx for me (especially since it came in a way shorter amount of time then if I had soloed). Happy happy joy joy !!!!

[xero]

Its not whether any one specific class is over or under appreciated... it all comes down to our baser instincts as humans to want some sort of tangable reciprocation (ie being thanked for doing a good job as a mage or kiting/dps'ing as archer or even tanking/beckon stomping into walls properly etc...).

When that doesn't happen, then we tend to be a little harsh in our judgements or assessments of others. Just because you aren't thanked verbally when playing bear/archer doesn't mean that the thanks aren't there... they are, just intangible. Still it WOULD be nice to be thanked for a good job at maps end. Just my 2 cents :)

[crunchybirdy]

People always thank and praise birds for killing Overlord! :D

[Zaltiar]

When you get 2/3 into a run, and you get killed. who revives you so you dont have to run alll the way back to your team-mates? When your health bar is low and you're running out of pots, who heals the hell out of you? lol
I don't use a mage character, but I'm just saying it saves a whole lot of time. so, thanks mages :)

[SavageSpider]

My main is a mage and I have to say that everyone is important. Mage can res and heal but can't tank. Warrior can tank and keep aggro but can't kite. Bird can dps like its cool and kite but he can't control a crowd. The real issue is are you playing your class right at that time? If your a mage dealing to much damage when you have a tank and u get killed, why? If your a tank why do you run in last and run out before the group of mobs are dead. If your a bird why the heck are u taking aggro from the tank and then running around and getting aggro from more mobs then the party can handle. I don't want a Ty for res I want you to quit typing and play. I will ALWAYS say good job to a group never to an individual for doing their job. Well that was my soap box.lol good discussion.