Note for Tanks

[LelouchX]

Hey all, this is my first post on sts forums, and first off I wanna apologize if I offended anyone while playing. I tend to be a little moody when I play as my tank. I get annoyed when other bears pull mobs off the wall into the center of room. Sometimes I say some mean things to people and boot them for such things. I first try to say things nicely because I am sure that this annoys other people also. It just makes runs go quicker when a group collaborates. I have played with other bears, and I always ask who is gonna pull/tank etc. I get along with many other good tankers, and I by no means think I am an expert (however I think I am pretty good;) hehehe) Anyway, let me know if any of you have had similar experiences and how you handle it, whether you boot or just find another game. If you have done any runs with me let me know what you think! I am newly 55 bear, and working on my equips now. Let me know if you have any suggestions for me. I'm excited to hear your responses.

[CrimsonTider]

I do one of two things when I am running with my bears:

1) Make my own games or run with friends

Which leads to the second thing...

2) When bears "break up my pull", I politely ask them to let me lead and teach how beckoning/stomping into the wall is the most effective way to crowd. If I get attitude or the bear(s) do not listen, the boot comes hard and swift.

If however, you find yourself in a pug or in someone elses game, let the bad tank continue to scatter the mobs and others will soon get tired ofnchasing monsters around the screen.

Just remeber to try and keep your cool. I too get frustrated at times and have to remember that in a few minutes, the game will be over and I can find another team! Good luck!

[JaytB]

I rarely join a PUG, but if this happens I politely try to give advice. Usually they dont listen... Then I simply leave :)

[Kraze]

Eh when I see a tank scatter mobs I add three minutes to my expectation for how long the map will take. Something I've noticed is that the scatterbears do the worst job holding aggro on bosses. Leading to my bird getting his beak smashed in.

[Zeus]

Hmm, what's your IGN? I might have played with you? I also try and coordinated with other bears.

[TANKKAAR]

The most simply, straight forward, and non offensive line I use and seems to teach while scold is this:

"WALL PULLS ONLY PLEASE!"

Followed by

"THANKS"

Lol... seems to work for me :banana:

[Kakatoa91]

Always feel nice when team or at least 1 person says im doing a good tank/puller dog erm.. i meant job ;)

Hated also when other bears keep on beckoning boss when its perfectly stuck on wall.

But then some birds/mages need also to let us do our job properly. half of time they die because they put a foot before us lol.

[LelouchX]

Thanks everyone, personally like "WALL PULLS ONLY PLEASE", short and sweet. In response to Apollo, not so sure what IGN, lol, this is my first MMO and i picked up in most terminoligy. guess you are asking my other characters? My mage is eyeofnewt and my bird is eyesssniper, both 55. And i DEFINATELY played with your bodyguardz

Kakatoa, i too love when people encourage me by saying i am doing a good job. It nice to feel appreciated. I also like when people say ty when i rez as my mage. its just good manners, it is 2 letters, not that hard. I sometimes rush as my mage/bird, but never in sewers or shadow caves. if i do i usually die and have nobody to blame but myself.

Kraze, i notice it is a little hard to hold aggro on bosses, but i like to rush in there as tank and build some up before the group comes in. No1 will ever wait for this so i usually try to rush in before the last mob is killed. I pull to wall, stop and scream, and rush to boss. Its espically hard when you have birds with top of the line equips. Before i played as my bear i didn't realize how hard it was for a str bear to hold aggro on a boss.

[CrimsonTider]

Kraze, i notice it is a little hard to hold aggro on bosses,

Is your "taunt" maxed out?

[LelouchX]

Is your "taunt" maxed out?

Yes. All my buffs (except the healing one) are maxed out, as well as hell scream, taunt, beckon, and stomp. I also maxed out the fist (forgot the name) and use mainly to debuff bosses. I split the rest among the single target attack skills. I know my damage output is probably low compared to birds and elves (especially with the mage skills) but seems comparable to other bears. I see you have duel spec, i was considering going for this but wanted to get some better archer gear first. I think it is easier to hold aggro when using dex equips, or so i noticed from bears that use them on bosses. Is this what you usually do for bosses?

BTW, thanks for the quick responses, wasn't expecting as much overnight!

[StompArtist]

I am a bow bear and run ahead. I will pull stomp into a corner and after that they belong to the tank. Different players, different styles perhaps you can try and find a way to adapt to different play styles and teach yourself to react to "bad bears" regaining control of this situation. To me that is what makes pugs interesting. Running with the same folks all playing in harmony is fun but gets mechanical after a while. More fun with "random-joe" stomping everything in the middle of a room and running away, this is when your tank skills are really put to the test! ;)

[apoceq]

I like to give advice, Im not the best bear but I have been known to make a few pulls :) I try to explain to the "young" bears that more than likely, they will eventually get booted for pulling mobs to the center of the room and scatter em...

[LelouchX]

I am a bow bear and run ahead. I will pull stomp into a corner and after that they belong to the tank. Different players, different styles perhaps you can try and find a way to adapt to different play styles and teach yourself to react to "bad bears" regaining control of this situation. To me that is what makes pugs interesting. Running with the same folks all playing in harmony is fun but gets mechanical after a while. More fun with "random-joe" stomping everything in the middle of a room and running away, this is when your tank skills are really put to the test! ;)

With a good group i do the same so that i can pull the next mob while others use their AOE to kill the one i just put against the wall. Haven't had any complaints so i keep doing. Only complaint i get is that i say "wait here" too often because i preset it. some people don't know how to let tanks pull but other get annoyed, they say "we know the drill" etc. Regarding where you say "putting your tank skills to the test," i never thought of it this way. What i do sometimes is wait for the scatterbear (love that word, thanks Kraze) to pull to center and then pull right after to try to catch the enemies before they are everywhere. this doesn't always work however.


I like to give advice, Im not the best bear but I have been known to make a few pulls :) I try to explain to the "young" bears that more than likely, they will eventually get booted for pulling mobs to the center of the room and scatter em...

While i boot sometimes after i get annoyed, i rarely see others boot these young scatterbears.

[StompArtist]

With a good group i do the same so that i can pull the next mob while others use their AOE to kill the one i just put against the wall. Haven't had any complaints so i keep doing. Only complaint i get is that i say "wait here" too often because i preset it. some people don't know how to let tanks pull but other get annoyed, they say "we know the drill" etc. Regarding where you say "putting your tank skills to the test," i never thought of it this way. What i do sometimes is wait for the scatterbear (love that word, thanks Kraze) to pull to center and then pull right after to try to catch the enemies before they are everywhere. this doesn't always work however.

Took me a while to look at it this way but now that I do it makes the game a lot more fun (for me).

[CrimsonTider]

I am usually dex full time unless playing with no mages or in a pug (rare). I spam taunt and try to make sue I am always first into a room to get aggro on me. It is difficult sometimes, especially with a bird in custom, but just do the best you can.

[apoceq]

I have got booted for accidently fat fingering beckon on boss's before. It's not uncommon.

[Kakatoa91]

Had some games with full bears with some on dual/dex mode
thats the only kind of team i dun mind beckon, stomp all over...
its true its fun to c mobs flyin all over.
And actually, i rarely saw a bear dieing.
A bit like everyone thinking i wont die in front of other bears... it would look bad ;)
Only bosses take more time.

[xBearSpiritx]

I totally agree with the OP... I too find it irritating when joining PUGs, for example, and other bears use beckon at the wrong time and mobs are scattered all over the place.

In saying that, I think we should also look to provide some constructive criticism and take into consideration other bears builds, as they might be lacking sufficient hit%, which could cause a similar outcome (depending on where they position themselves when pulling).

I think 85% to 90% hit is suffice, but I would personally recommend 88% to 90% hit... just my 2c ;)

[LelouchX]

In saying that, I think we should also look to provide some constructive criticism and take into consideration other bears builds, as they might be lacking sufficient hit%, which could cause a similar outcome (depending on where they position themselves when pulling).

I think 85% to 90% hit is suffice, but I would personally recommend 88% to 90% hit... just my 2c ;)

I have 88% hit i believe, and somtimes my beckon won't pull much of a group. Does the weapon type have any effect on this? I thought i read in one of the forums something about the weapon influencing the damage your skills do. Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this but your response made me think of it.

[xBearSpiritx]

I have 88% hit i believe, and somtimes my beckon won't pull much of a group. Does the weapon type have any effect on this? I thought i read in one of the forums something about the weapon influencing the damage your skills do. Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this but your response made me think of it.

I don't think it would affect your pulling ability using beckon with 88% hit, but I believe swords are greater than any 1H Weapon at par.

It seems that the 1H Sword always gives more skill damage, as opposed to using axes.

[CrimsonTider]

I don't think it would affect your pulling ability using beckon with 88% hit, but I believe swords are greater than any 1H Weapon at par.

It seems that the 1H Sword always gives more skill damage, as opposed to using axes.

It doesn't affect range, but as with any other skill/weapon, the higher your hit%, the greater the chance you have of landing the skill. Make sense?

[LelouchX]

I don't think it would affect your pulling ability using beckon with 88% hit, but I believe swords are greater than any 1H Weapon at par.

It seems that the 1H Sword always gives more skill damage, as opposed to using axes.

Thanks! I did notice that my axe is where I have the problem with beckon.

[xBearSpiritx]

It doesn't affect range, but as with any other skill/weapon, the higher your hit%, the greater the chance you have of landing the skill. Make sense?

Perfect sense bro ;)

[xBearSpiritx]

Thanks! I did notice that my axe is where I have the problem with beckon.

No problem bro ;)

[Tamino]

My suggestion is: wait two or three pull error before making a judgement.

I think to be a disciplined bear (some of my best friend are bears themselves and we cooperate well together) and in PUGs I always check if another bear wants to lead, adjusting my pulling/stomping accordingly. Despite of this, I got booted once for "beckon breaking" and it was simple due to lagging; I pulled properly, but server recorded my command two seconds after... ruining the other bear job. Long ping times may also drive you to misinterpretate the other player intentions, with the same (bad) results. So please, double check to discriminate if a bad pulling is a wrong habit or an accident.

BTW, not all cooperating styles work in all situations. With very bossy bears I simply mirror (beacon/stomp immediately after other bear and in the same place), this enforces the attack but is less effective; with friends we alternate (who beacon/stomps continues to block/attack mobs while other bear go ahead), in a few cases I lead and completely ignore the other bear back, trusting in his capacity to avoid interference in pulling.

Unfortunatly, bear errors (beckon in the wrong place, taunt near grates) are so evident! Lucky you, mages and birds !

[xero]

Great thread for scatterbears to read and follow (I'm still a scatterbear but they say knowledge is power and I'm adjusting my skill pts and stat pts accordingly to "fix" my problem). Thx to all who posted and especially to the OP LeLoucheX for creating this thread. Maybe I can get some extra pointers from you guys in game some time.

[Colin Healey]

Hey I to am a crazy crossbow bear, but at level 37 now my strategy is abit bad, i do my best to push into walls, but most of the time i can get in before the group get in a beckon/stom spread them out and kick some back to the door for the rest of the group, when they are done those mobs, they get to me, by then i'm down to just the boss, if we have a tank they can take it, but for the most part i just beckon stomp hs, and sms to my hearts content.

my skills beckon, hs, sms, stomp, iron blood, rage. all at 6. now time to put points into evade, as i play dps. not tank.
12/198 dex bear.

[CrimsonTider]

Hey I to am a crazy crossbow bear, but at level 37 now my strategy is abit bad, i do my best to push into walls, but most of the time i can get in before the group get in a beckon/stom spread them out and kick some back to the door for the rest of the group, when they are done those mobs, they get to me, by then i'm down to just the boss, if we have a tank they can take it, but for the most part i just beckon stomp hs, and sms to my hearts content.

my skills beckon, hs, sms, stomp, iron blood, rage. all at 6. now time to put points into evade, as i play dps. not tank.
12/198 dex bear.

OOOHHH... don't let Elly see this quote. :) We old school bears have a belief: ALL bears tank, no matter what your specs.

You are on a good path with skills. I would work on taunt after evade.

[Kraze]

A bear that won't tank is like a bird that can't combo or a Mage that does not have Rez. Your kinda hurting the team. While you need to be able to adjust as a non str bear to "off tank" if a str bear is in the group. I have no trouble pulling with my dex bear just end up spamming pots if the party doesn't bail my furry behind out with quick combos and kills

[LelouchX]

My suggestion is: wait two or three pull error before making a judgement.

I think to be a disciplined bear (some of my best friend are bears themselves and we cooperate well together) and in PUGs I always check if another bear wants to lead, adjusting my pulling/stomping accordingly. Despite of this, I got booted once for "beckon breaking" and it was simple due to lagging; I pulled properly, but server recorded my command two seconds after... ruining the other bear job. Long ping times may also drive you to misinterpretate the other player intentions, with the same (bad) results. So please, double check to discriminate if a bad pulling is a wrong habit or an accident.

BTW, not all cooperating styles work in all situations. With very bossy bears I simply mirror (beacon/stomp immediately after other bear and in the same place), this enforces the attack but is less effective; with friends we alternate (who beacon/stomps continues to block/attack mobs while other bear go ahead), in a few cases I lead and completely ignore the other bear back, trusting in his capacity to avoid interference in pulling.

Unfortunatly, bear errors (beckon in the wrong place, taunt near grates) are so evident! Lucky you, mages and birds !

I can be a bossy bear but I am learning the virtue of patience. I often have ping/lag issues that have gotten me yelled at. That's when I say something inappropriate and PL mutes me.


Great thread for scatterbears to read and follow (I'm still a scatterbear but they say knowledge is power and I'm adjusting my skill pts and stat pts accordingly to "fix" my problem). Thx to all who posted and especially to the OP LeLoucheX for creating this thread. Maybe I can get some extra pointers from you guys in game some time.

Thanks! I didn't see one like it so I started the thread. Maybe a noob question but what is OP? Sorry, this my first MMO, have most of the lingo down but not all.....

Add me and I'll run with you and share my strategies with ya. I was running with one of my fav bear friends bearlybert last night and we compliment eachother very well, so I can show you how to not piss off other bears who like to take the lead :-) I also had fun soloing Victory Lap bosses for a bunch of low-mid 40's last night.


OOOHHH... don't let Elly see this quote. :) We old school bears have a belief: ALL bears tank, no matter what your specs.

You are on a good path with skills. I would work on taunt after evade.

I agree, even dex bears seem to have good health/def, and i plan to tank when I get around to duel specing

[Kraze]

As a reformed scatterbear just to share my thoughts on holding aggro on bosses. Hold off on taunt till a squishy makes a combo then taunt to get the attention back. If you have agro already your not going to make the boss more angry and during the cooldown a bird will cruel blast and have his poor beak crushed the the Mage has to Rez and party loses a ton of dps while all this is going on.
Just my two plat

[ignaust]

I usually figure out who is the main tank then run just behind them waiting for them to pull into the walls; then I run next to the mobs and STOMP, Growl, move on, this usually takes care of the mobs. Just play off the other Bears and everyone is happy. If the Tank Die I take over, I have good results this way, just pay attention to what is going on and keep everyone alive (my goal). Oh by the way thanks Tankaar! ;)

[ignaust]

Lelouch I would like to make some runs with you so I can learn more. Please add me or pm me in game. Thank You guys for everything!

[WhoIsThis]

Get used to it. There are a lot of "stomp bears" or what have been called "scatter bears".


Still, if any bears are reading this (from my guide):


1. Survey the area: You'll ideally want your targets to be against a wall when you tank, so find a wall (easy to do in most dungeons - large rooms like in the Bandit Boy Stronghold first room can be a bit of a challenge - drive them to "9 clock position" in that room - away from fire vents and away from the spawning point in the event that the round-up fails).

2. Buff. Cast evade, iron blood, and rage. You'll need the first two for survivability and the last one to supplement the team's damage.

3. Approach the mob and cast taunt. The targets will have a red "glow" and will be drawn towards you. You can cast Hell Scream now to minimize the amount of damage you do. Alternatively, you could delay Hell Scream a bit until either a mage debuffs or a bird casts shattering scream to form the "terror". Up to you - experiment and see what works. In PUGs though, I recommend casting Hell Scream early as there is no assurance that your teammates will debuff.

4. Go against the wall and beckon. Remember, the objective is to drive the targets against the wall and keep them there. I know that this sounds bizarre, but when you beckon - don't select a target to auto. Beckon (strangely) works better when you do not auto a target.

5. Move away from the wall and opposite to the direction that you beckoned. In a hallway, stand in the middle of the hallway. In a room, stand about 3m away from the wall. If you didn't cast Hell Scream earlier, do it now. The stun effect of the beckon has probably worn off and if your team hasn't debuffed, they won't. (Chances are, you're in a PUG that has players who do not understand the concept of debuffing.) Ask them politely to debuff next time. If they don't, next time, cast Hell Scream as directed in step 3.

6. Cast stomp. This will combo to form "smash" and slam the mob against the wall. This is why having a wall is so critical. Otherwise, the mobs would just scatter when you stomped them, making all that you've done pointless. Putting them against a wall makes it easier to kill.

7. Assist your team in killing. By now, archers should have casted blast shot/cruel blast, mages should be nuking, and so on. You can assist your team in killing. Priority targets are enemy dex units (aliens with blasters and bandit boy birds, along with the green slime mages with fire weapons). They should be taken out with your slashes and crushing blow.

8. As soon as you see the majority of the enemies near death and you're reasonably certain that the team can kill without the need for a tank, move on. It's important that you stay ahead of your group. Nobody wants a bear that stays in the rear and is afraid to die. You won't be getting very many kills if you do that anyways - the birds will get the kills with their cruel blast and mages with their AOE. Repeat cycle for the next mob.

[LelouchX]

Get used to it. There are a lot of "stomp bears" or what have been called "scatter bears".
Still, if any bears are reading this (from my guide):


Very well done, I wish I was reading forums before I learned this on my own :-)

[Fyrce]

I think there's a lot of ways to work groups. My dex bear leads, even though he's squishier than when he is str bear. I might wait for the team to be closer behind me, but come on, I'm a bear. I'll go in first or try to go first. The "lead" thing is really why I like my bear. If I'm not going to lead, I'll play my mages or my birds.

Yes, there are lag issues. And yes, that does sometimes result in pulls or stomps that aren't quite where you might want them. Sometimes it means I do not stomp until I know where the pull ended up. I don't judge other bears that much. They have to scatter more than once and probably throw bosses about repeatedly before I will say something. But I WILL say something, usually, "wall pls" and "don't toss so much pls" My preferred method of "dumping" a scatterbear is just not to friend them. Usually they won't rejoin or the likelihood is good that the group will be full by the time that they do. I'm not gonna say I've never booted one, but I try to reform them first.

Yes, multiple bears do have to work with each other. A multiple bear group working together is a beautiful thing, so I love multiple bear groups. I've been lead bear and follower bear. It really depends on the other bear(s). I will try to lead but if someone is faster or more insistent or more clueless, I will try to figure out a way to work with them. That might mean reinforcing their pulls, or pulling after their pulls or stomping into their pulls, etc. I've also seen where bears do coordinated pulls, separate pulls, pull in a tag team, toss from wall to wall in corridors, etc. Pulling can be GREAT FUN. There's lots of ways to work a team.

That's probably also why I love PUGs. Because actually most of them can be worked out. Sometimes with a bit of guidance, but I have not encountered too many failed PUGs. My biggest "issue" with PUGs is that I tend to jump into one or two and end up with a full group that runs until I get tired, which actually is a pretty good problem to have :)

BTW, taunt is a pretty fast skill. I don't usually wait on it. OTOH, I sometimes to wait on hellscream, because it's the end skill of a Mega Combo and the only AREA Mega Combo. If you see your team throwing a lot of nature strikes, time your hellscream to be right as the nature strike occurs. Hellstorm is really cool.

Oh yeah, one other thing about stomping even if mobs aren't pulled together: if your mages have ice stormed and the shattered combo will pretty much kill most of those mobs. By all means, stomp away. The few remaining can be picked up by the ranged members of your team.

[LelouchX]

I think there's a lot of ways to work groups. My dex bear leads, even though he's squishier than when he is str bear. I might wait for the team to be closer behind me, but come on, I'm a bear. I'll go in first or try to go first. The "lead" thing is really why I like my bear. If I'm not going to lead, I'll play my mages or my birds.

Yes, there are lag issues. And yes, that does sometimes result in pulls or stomps that aren't quite where you might want them. Sometimes it means I do not stomp until I know where the pull ended up. I don't judge other bears that much. They have to scatter more than once and probably throw bosses about repeatedly before I will say something. But I WILL say something, usually, "wall pls" and "don't toss so much pls" My preferred method of "dumping" a scatterbear is just not to friend them. Usually they won't rejoin or the likelihood is good that the group will be full by the time that they do. I'm not gonna say I've never booted one, but I try to reform them first.

Yes, multiple bears do have to work with each other. A multiple bear group working together is a beautiful thing, so I love multiple bear groups. I've been lead bear and follower bear. It really depends on the other bear(s). I will try to lead but if someone is faster or more insistent or more clueless, I will try to figure out a way to work with them. That might mean reinforcing their pulls, or pulling after their pulls or stomping into their pulls, etc. I've also seen where bears do coordinated pulls, separate pulls, pull in a tag team, toss from wall to wall in corridors, etc. Pulling can be GREAT FUN. There's lots of ways to work a team.

That's probably also why I love PUGs. Because actually most of them can be worked out. Sometimes with a bit of guidance, but I have not encountered too many failed PUGs. My biggest "issue" with PUGs is that I tend to jump into one or two and end up with a full group that runs until I get tired, which actually is a pretty good problem to have :)

BTW, taunt is a pretty fast skill. I don't usually wait on it. OTOH, I sometimes to wait on hellscream, because it's the end skill of a Mega Combo and the only AREA Mega Combo. If you see your team throwing a lot of nature strikes, time your hellscream to be right as the nature strike occurs. Hellstorm is really cool.

Oh yeah, one other thing about stomping even if mobs aren't pulled together: if your mages have ice stormed and the shattered combo will pretty much kill most of those mobs. By all means, stomp away. The few remaining can be picked up by the ranged members of your team.

I love this post and am grateful that you have added it! I keep noticing that as more people respond to my initial post or others' responses that more and more great tips are showing up! I love running with bears that I have in the past because we know eachother's styles and know how to reinforce eachother. Another thing I do is if all of the mob doesn't get pulled to the wall I will go right next to where the first bear pulled and then use becon. This tends to only really work if the walls are rounded, like many of the rooms in thewers are.

I am also big on the "wall-to-wall" pulls in corridors. The corridors are thin enough so that any aoe skill will still hit enemies on both walls, and the becon also has a chance of of stunning, so i love using it as often as I can without being a "scatterbear." However, I have been booted for doing these "wall-to-wall" pulls with the message "stop beaking my pulls." I guess it all depends on how domineering the bear is.

As far as PUGS are concerned, I tend to try to rush if there are other bears BECAUSE I don't know if the other bear really knows what he is doing. If he proves otherwise, I am happy being backup tank.

Thanks for your tips on combos as well! I am going to add this to my other thread, Beckoning Guide (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?29818-Beckoning-Guide).

[Tamino]

I try to add another hint: in tentative to cohordinate with other bears, a good idea is all to keep the same side. Even if beacons are bad timed, if they are on same side of the corridor/room, the mobs are kept stunned against wall and they are easy prey. If two bears beckon from opposite sides, the result effect is to scatter mobs all around.

[LelouchX]

I try to add another hint: in tentative to cohordinate with other bears, a good idea is all to keep the same side. Even if beacons are bad timed, if they are on same side of the corridor/room, the mobs are kept stunned against wall and they are easy prey. If two bears beckon from opposite sides, the result effect is to scatter mobs all around.

Very good point. I have often seen a mob go flying right down the middle of a hall because of bears pulling on opposite sides.

Thanks for tip, I put it in my similar thread Beckoning Guide (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?29818-Beckoning-Guide)