Food for Thought: Botting and the LB

[Zylx]

Quick, short, and sweet:

Does the very recent release of new elite AP's and their pretty quick completion of certain LB players not arouse suspicion on botting, which is apparently against the rules but unenforced? Especially when some of them may or may not have been caught botting in the past? Im certain investigations would be fruitful. It's simply not fair for people to take advantage of technology to surpass everyone, and with no action being taken about it. Especially when its very apparent to a majority of the community who weren't born yesterday.

As an average player who has invested time and money in the game, i'd appreciate investigations to be done and actions to be taken about this issue.

Just food for thought.. thanks for reading..........

-Concerned Player

[Visiting]

Anyone who you think is botting probably just has a $5,000 gaming chair and a whole lot of Adderal :O

[Ssneakykills]

Sucks the game was/is ridden with players like that in pocket legends too and nothing was ever done about it.

These new aps are just screaming for players who bottled in the past to do it again

[Zylx]

Sucks the game was/is ridden with players like that in pocket legends too and nothing was ever done about it.

These new aps are just screaming for players who bottled in the past to do it again

Exactly. This just ruins the integrity of the game.

[Ssneakykills]

Exactly. This just ruins the integrity of the game.

I kind of feel sorry for those players who are legitly grinding out the new elites just to be taken over by people botting them

[Schnitzel]

I agree with Zylx,

It's kind of ironic to say "Don't do this", then turn the blind eye when it happens.

I have my suspicions, and I'd rather be proven wrong than right
But if the staff isn't going to do anything about it,
then whats the point of having a rule when it won't be enforced?

Just my $0.02

-R

[CouchPass]

Theres nothing we can do about it, unfortunately, except reporting. Hopefully the devs, realize this is a huge issue, espescially with the new grinding elites AP. Nobody wants to run the same map a million times. Of course I wouldn't bot but sts is typr of digging its own grave in this issue.

[Suentous PO]

Sts definitely repeats like a mantra-
"Botting is against the rules land we take it seriously, report them. "
yet they do little/nothing even when a player is reported by more than one person.
We just saw it happen, someone botting for days on end in a locked map, every single run lasts the same time for days as he pads fake stats on the lb.
a slap on the wrist 7day time out, and they let him back in game and reinstate his fake lb status and keeps the inflated kdr!
Pl is overrun with botters "double ur $" nubs, and black marketers who openly fearlessly break tos, leading any new players to see for themselves how to get ahead quickly.

It's just *insert bannable adjective*

[konafez]

Back before the expansion when there was nothing to do but farm teeth, I spent months down in wt4 getting kills to improve my kdr. I was so proud of my kdr (350k kills 3000 deaths) till I ran into a botter with 400k kills 250 deaths ....then I just thought what is the freakin point.

I pride myself on having one of the best work ethics in AL. If I need gear, I farm till I can afford it. If I need to get better kdr, I lock myself in wt4 till I get the kills I need. If I need AP's I get my guildies together and we go earn them

But seeing these botters just makes me think why bother. I don't have much interest in grinding for days when someone else just fires up there bot and goes to bed

[Dragoonclaws]

There is a simple idea to go against botting... and it's a time limit. After X hours of gameplay, the account MUST log out and must be warned an hour and 30min before. Login allowed 5min - 15min later. Therefore, StS will have an idea of who hit those time limits most and they can investigate :p

[kinzmet]

Is there a way to detect bots?

[Dragoonclaws]

Is there a way to detect bots?

There are ways. Usually, bots use a PC. They don't use the mouse, but playing AL doesn't require a mouse, you can use WASD and all the other keys.

[tomsawer]

Maybe, just maybe this is a set up by s.t.s.to find bots and get rid of em ..I mean seriously if players (bots) are getting these achievements in a matter of days or a week it should be extremely obvious their bots ...
But then again S.t.S. wouldn't have to go through so much trouble to find em it should already be known .

[Iheybeautiful]

Maybe, just maybe this is a set up by s.t.s.to find bots and get rid of em ..I mean seriously if players (bots) are getting these achievements in a matter of days or a week it should be extremely obvious their bots ...
But then again S.t.S. wouldn't have to go through so much trouble to find em it should already be known .
Setup for 5 years? Yeah sure.

[bonjovi3223]

My well geared mage can still not solo nordr elites & hence I still do not have even the initial ap for it.
If that Is the case I do not understand how ppl could be botting them. Can someone pls explain.

[tomsawer]

Setup for 5 years? Yeah sure.
Was intended as a joke plz don't take seriously ...or am I [emoji6]

[Edward Coug]

I agree with Zylx,

It's kind of ironic to say "Don't do this", then turn the blind eye when it happens.

I have my suspicions, and I'd rather be proven wrong than right
But if the staff isn't going to do anything about it,
then whats the point of having a rule when it won't be enforced?

Just my $0.02

-R

I completely agree. It's kind of like how the player who impersonated a dev and tricked players into selling paras and eyes with a fake announcement was never punished.

[Visiting]

I completely agree. It's kind of like how the player who impersonated a dev and tricked players into selling paras and eyes with a fake announcement was never punished.

I'd say trolling is a far step away from actually breaking the rules of the game :/

[Edward Coug]

I'd say trolling is a far step away from actually breaking the rules of the game :/

I think the players who were tricked into selling paras and eyes would disagree. And impersonating a dev is most certainly against the TOS.

There's a reason the guilty player won't fess up to doing it.

[Visiting]

I think the players who were tricked into selling paras and eyes would disagree. And impersonating a dev is most certainly against the TOS.

There's a reason the guilty player won't fess up to doing it.

They sold their items upon their own volition, if they didn't check to see if the source was credible, they're partially to be blamed as well. As far as impersonating a mod, I'm sure it's against the ToS of the forums, but the picture in question here was posted on a third party application, not the forums, thus out of jurisdiction of STS..

[Edward Coug]

They sold their items upon their own volition, if they didn't check to see if the source was credible, they're partially to be blamed as well. As far as impersonating a mod, I'm sure it's against the ToS of the forums, but the picture in question here was posted on a third party application, not the forums, thus out of jurisdiction of STS..

You could say something very similar about most players who have been scammed.

The fake announcement didn't stay on that third party app, though. It got circulated, and players really did fall for it. It was well done, unfortunately.

Anyway, I'm sure the player will come forward because as you say, he's got nothing to worry about.

[Zylx]

You could say something very similar about most players who have been scammed.

The fake announcement didn't stay on that third party app, though. It got circulated, and players really did fall for it. It was well done, unfortunately.

Anyway, I'm sure the player will come forward because as you say, he's got nothing to worry about.

Then, by your logic, everyone who circulated that image is to blame for everyone losing profit because they acted upon suspicion without justifying the actual source? I dont think so. Besides, who knew what the author's intention was behind this. Perhaps it was meant as a joke among friends that spread into something more than the author intended. An April Fools-esque joke gone awry.

I seriously doubt that the image would be considered as impersonating a dev. It's just an overblown photoshop troll, and it's silly that people are still talking about it even when it was confirmed that it was not true.

[Zylx]

Back before the expansion when there was nothing to do but farm teeth, I spent months down in wt4 getting kills to improve my kdr. I was so proud of my kdr (350k kills 3000 deaths) till I ran into a botter with 400k kills 250 deaths ....then I just thought what is the freakin point.

I pride myself on having one of the best work ethics in AL. If I need gear, I farm till I can afford it. If I need to get better kdr, I lock myself in wt4 till I get the kills I need. If I need AP's I get my guildies together and we go earn them

But seeing these botters just makes me think why bother. I don't have much interest in grinding for days when someone else just fires up there bot and goes to bed

This is exactly my point. It's unfair for legitimate players to have to compete with robots. Botting loses the integrity of the game because it makes the effort of other players relatively less meaningful.

Regardless of these bots, i believe people who legitimately EARNED their achievements and gold through actual hard work should be praised and should definitely feel proud, because i certainly dont have the determination to do what they do. So great job konafez! Im only at 55k kills on my rogue lol

[Oezheasate]

I think the players who were tricked into selling paras and eyes would disagree. And impersonating a dev is most certainly against the TOS.

There's a reason the guilty player won't fess up to doing it.

Exactly, the third party application in question has already clearly been stated to not be reliable as evidence, any screenshots taken from it cant be used as evidence.

[Schnitzel]

I agree with Zylx,

It's kind of ironic to say "Don't do this", then turn the blind eye when it happens.

I have my suspicions, and I'd rather be proven wrong than right
But if the staff isn't going to do anything about it,
then whats the point of having a rule when it won't be enforced?

Just my $0.02

-R

I completely agree. It's kind of like how the player who impersonated a dev and tricked players into selling paras and eyes with a fake announcement was never punished.

I don't see the connection between my post about botters and your topic of that fake announcement. If you're going to derail a thread to talk about another topic, don't try to quote me then say " oh by the way, remember that fake announcement that someone posted?"

I'm not the one that posted it, but when I saw it, I took it as a joke after searching through forums for the announcement and not finding anything that said that.

Now
BACK the the Original Topic

Thread re-railed

[Suentous PO]

There is a simple idea to go against botting... and it's a time limit. After X hours of gameplay, the account MUST log out and must be warned an hour and 30min before. Login allowed 5min - 15min later. Therefore, StS will have an idea of who hit those time limits most and they can investigate :p

This wouldn't work well. Sometimes I legit play for hours, I'd be pissed if the put constraints on a real farmer. Also this naturally happens as the players inv fills, you are not allowed to make a new map, nor run much until you have a relatively empty inv.
Why not a program to detect repetitive player input, specifically in locked maps?

[Edward Coug]

Then, by your logic, everyone who circulated that image is to blame for everyone losing profit because they acted upon suspicion without justifying the actual source? I dont think so. Besides, who knew what the author's intention was behind this. Perhaps it was meant as a joke among friends that spread into something more than the author intended. An April Fools-esque joke gone awry.

I seriously doubt that the image would be considered as impersonating a dev. It's just an overblown photoshop troll, and it's silly that people are still talking about it even when it was confirmed that it was not true.

Spin it whatever way you want. You and I both know the author will never admit to it for fear of repercussions.

As for botting, if anyone doubts it's a bannable offense, I have a pm from remiem confirming it.

[Faliziaga]

Why not a program to detect repetitive player input, specifically in locked maps?

This.
Competing with bots is possible but very stressful in the long run.

[Ssneakykills]

I think the players who were tricked into selling paras and eyes would disagree. And impersonating a dev is most certainly against the TOS.

There's a reason the guilty player won't fess up to doing it.

Can't believe your comparing botting to a fake announcement... Maybe you should take everything you read with a pinch of salt rather than believing everything you see.

The 'impersonator' did us a favour by getting rid of a few para and eye gems before the new expansion hits imo

[xZauiflele]

Thr are some apps in android play store which record touch and repeat as much time u want or infinite. Is that bot?

[konafez]

Thr are some apps in android play store which record touch and repeat as much time u want or infinite. Is that bot?

That sir..IS a bot

[Schnitzel]

Then, by your logic, everyone who circulated that image is to blame for everyone losing profit because they acted upon suspicion without justifying the actual source? I dont think so. Besides, who knew what the author's intention was behind this. Perhaps it was meant as a joke among friends that spread into something more than the author intended. An April Fools-esque joke gone awry.

I seriously doubt that the image would be considered as impersonating a dev. It's just an overblown photoshop troll, and it's silly that people are still talking about it even when it was confirmed that it was not true.

Spin it whatever way you want. You and I both know the author will never admit to it for fear of repercussions.

As for botting, if anyone doubts it's a bannable offense, I have a pm from remiem confirming it.

So lets say the writer of the fake announcement did it go hurt people who sold it. How does that justify your need to derail another forum user's thread to talk about it? If you want to talk about that topic, you have more than 10 posts, go make your own thread.

As for botting. We never doubted it is wasn't a bannable offense. We are questioning why some botters, whose stats are Extremely obvious, aren't banned.

[mesalin]

What you should do if you catch close friend botting
:(

[Pedgon]

Quick, short, and sweet:

Does the very recent release of new elite AP's and their pretty quick completion of certain LB players not arouse suspicion on botting, which is apparently against the rules but unenforced? Especially when some of them may or may not have been caught botting in the past? Im certain investigations would be fruitful. It's simply not fair for people to take advantage of technology to surpass everyone, and with no action being taken about it. Especially when its very apparent to a majority of the community who weren't born yesterday.

As an average player who has invested time and money in the game, i'd appreciate investigations to be done and actions to be taken about this issue.

Just food for thought.. thanks for reading..........

-Concerned Player

Finally, someone talks about this!

[stricker20000]

Quick, short, and sweet:

Does the very recent release of new elite AP's and their pretty quick completion of certain LB players not arouse suspicion on botting, which is apparently against the rules but unenforced? Especially when some of them may or may not have been caught botting in the past? Im certain investigations would be fruitful. It's simply not fair for people to take advantage of technology to surpass everyone, and with no action being taken about it. Especially when its very apparent to a majority of the community who weren't born yesterday.

As an average player who has invested time and money in the game, i'd appreciate investigations to be done and actions to be taken about this issue.

Just food for thought.. thanks for reading..........

-Concerned Player

Yes, of course not all fast people on LB are botting but some are for sure... not only AP but also PVE kills pretty much...

So doing anything against those bots to make competition fair would be nice

[stricker20000]

This wouldn't work well. Sometimes I legit play for hours, I'd be pissed if the put constraints on a real farmer. Also this naturally happens as the players inv fills, you are not allowed to make a new map, nor run much until you have a relatively empty inv.
Why not a program to detect repetitive player input, specifically in locked maps?

That might work.. but only if system detects player input pretty detailed since normal players doing that over and over again are having some repetitive input too :)

[Dragoonclaws]

This wouldn't work well. Sometimes I legit play for hours, I'd be pissed if the put constraints on a real farmer. Also this naturally happens as the players inv fills, you are not allowed to make a new map, nor run much until you have a relatively empty inv.
Why not a program to detect repetitive player input, specifically in locked maps?

The point is to force the bots to log out and stop running. You, since you're a real player, can stop for 15min and go back anytime. The bot had to be relaunched.

[Edward Coug]

The point is to force the bots to log out and stop running. You, since you're a real player, can stop for 15min and go back anytime. The bot had to be relaunched.

This wouldn't stop botting. Go onto Reddit and look for AMAs on botters. I spent the last hour poring over threads. The level of sophistication is eyeopening.

[Suentous PO]

That might work.. but only if system detects player input pretty detailed since normal players doing that over and over again are having some repetitive input too :)

Agreed, but with variable factors like hit/miss/dodge/crit/lag a player is having to react and not look like a bot which has the EXACT reaction regardless of those variables.
Also, that was the reason I specified locked maps, to eliminate a lot of searching.
The players will be able to see and report if it weren't locked.


The point is to force the bots to log out and stop running. You, since you're a real player, can stop for 15min and go back anytime. The bot had to be relaunched.

If I'm playing with ppl the world over with different lag most of who probably didn't join at the exact time, this is what I think would happen;
Farm- player 1 reached his limit
10 min latter- player 2
20 min- player 3
15- 4th
Then I get logged out.

My rebuttal is, good players shouldn't be shackled because the amatures, when there are alternatives possible

Also i don't doubt Edward above me

[Dragoonclaws]

Agreed, but with variable factors like hit/miss/dodge/crit/lag a player is having to react and not look like a bot which has the EXACT reaction regardless of those variables.
Also, that was the reason I specified locked maps, to eliminate a lot of searching.
The players will be able to see and report if it weren't locked.



If I'm playing with ppl the world over with different lag most of who probably didn't join at the exact time, this is what I think would happen;
Farm- player 1 reached his limit
10 min latter- player 2
20 min- player 3
15- 4th
Then I get logged out.

My rebuttal is, good players shouldn't be shackled because the amatures, when there are alternatives possible

Also i don't doubt Edward above me

The sad truth is that we are...

I started thinking about it... Maybe StS should do some searches about the bots and try to find a way to spot them or to stop them. The thing is, if they put time in bots, are they going to clean up many bots? Bots isn't a very major problem in game... except the fact that some of them are owning the LB and it's hard to prove at 100% that they are botting. If you talk about LoL or Runescape.. the botting was real... it was everywhere, bob the bot was absolutely everywhere. They took actions against bots and they are getting banned. In Al, very few of them are botting. Keep in mind that Al is supported by Android, Apple and Chrome. the keys are all different, so imagine the irrational bans that might happen. Just have a look at the all the bans that happened in past few weeks. Tons of bans for simple errors. Maybe they were right, and maybe they were wrong. Saying a website name got their account locked for life.... and all that might happen for the few 100 "suspected of botting" players.

The problem is there and it's nasty, but maybe not that major compared the bigger problems StS already has.

[Suentous PO]

^ I hear ya.
Which is why I had suggested in an anti-goldseller bot thread that mods should log in and clean the games the same way they do forums.

[Serancha]

We've made this request literally dozens of times in the last 2 years.

They fixed the pve exploits but didn't fix the leaderboard; they fixed the flag exploits and implemented a ridiculous system that severely limits progress in those aps, but they didn't fix that leaderboard either. They keep fixing loopholes they are told about but there are countless others that are being used. Basically, unless STS actually decides to spend money on more staff to police the game, the only ToS being enforced will be those on the forum, courtesy of infractions handed out by Seoratrek *waves*.

There's never been in-game moderation of any type, with STS relying on players ratting each other out as their only form of enforcement. It's the way they decided to run the game, even after a lot of player pressure. I don't see it stopping now, just because the AP leaderboard is compromised. It's been compromised since season 4 - it's just a new group of names on it now.

[konafez]

Speaking of seo, there is a give thank you button and give rep button.. I want you to add a give cake button ...

Don't be a cake hater seo!

[Java]

*derails thread for cake chant*

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/18/aecded252b38506be7b5338aff8300b3.jpg

Coffee.sys not found
(A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail

[stricker20000]

The point is to force the bots to log out and stop running. You, since you're a real player, can stop for 15min and go back anytime. The bot had to be relaunched.

Yes, that would not stop botting... either the player relaunches bot since he knows when it will get kicked out of game or bot is so smart and relogs by itself :P^


What you should do if you catch close friend botting
:(

Tell him to stop at least ..

[stricker20000]

Agreed, but with variable factors like hit/miss/dodge/crit/lag a player is having to react and not look like a bot which has the EXACT reaction regardless of those variables.
Also, that was the reason I specified locked maps, to eliminate a lot of searching.
The players will be able to see and report if it weren't locked.

Yes, thats what I meant by saying detailed. If the system collects all such player input it should work pretty well :)




If I'm playing with ppl the world over with different lag most of who probably didn't join at the exact time, this is what I think would happen;
Farm- player 1 reached his limit
10 min latter- player 2
20 min- player 3
15- 4th
Then I get logged out.

My rebuttal is, good players shouldn't be shackled because the amatures, when there are alternatives possible

Also i don't doubt Edward above me

Yes, thats what happened then. So this is no solution imo..

[stricker20000]

Keep in mind that Al is supported by Android, Apple and Chrome. the keys are all different, so imagine the irrational bans that might happen. Just have a look at the all the bans that happened in past few weeks. Tons of bans for simple errors. Maybe they were right, and maybe they were wrong. Saying a website name got their account locked for life.... and all that might happen for the few 100 "suspected of botting" players.

The problem is there and it's nasty, but maybe not that major compared the bigger problems StS already has.

It is kind of a major problem since legit players lose motivation competing with bots... but it is not construed as a major problem so far (unfortunately).

And I guess many of those bans that happened unjustified were due to the fact that specific words were written in the chat... however, if the system to collect player input informations is good and the ban hammer does not drop too quickly, it would not lead to 'irrational' bans ;)

And btw those who got banned not being guilty got their account back if they contacted support. As far as I am concerend I prefer a banning procedure with some errors that can be retrieved than just leaving all unfair/cheating people alone and keep them going :ambivalence:

[Killian229]

Botting programs are smart.auto kick-off from account won't do anything.they will just relog in.1:Figure out the account name of botter. 2: report to a sts developer. 3:investigation by sts. 4:bans accordingly.

It's really up to sts,as the consumers we give(honest for the most of us)our time to shine light on "cheaters" and report them.So sts should have a little more follow-thru when It comes to investigation.

If they don't care about more and more bots showing up,then this game is dead and gone fast as hell.I've seen a single person have 8 characters online at the same time.
Any person that has the software to bot could run all those characters 24/7.If they have top end characters..they could potentially have hundreds of millions in days/weeks.let that go on for to long and a single botter could have accumulated a billion or more.enough to rock the whole of the consignment shop.

While they try to sell platinum which in turn is suppose to give you a "edge" over non plat players,people will "illegally" be making obscene amounts of gold without manual control over a single run,as the legit players spend mind numbing hours farming(ALOT using platinum)only to watch their super hard work be in the shadows of new age technology.

Try this fix.

Depending on the software,a bot will almost always take the same cords on a map.I've had experience with setting up a buddies bot on diablo 2 ages ago.watch the lines they take.there is not one single person that can keep to specific cords like a bot.Also,leave a message to a botter in their game(some will have text logs saved)saying it's against ToS and it will be reported.All this is really on sts.GL to all

Just my opinion.

[tomsawer]

I would truly like to hear from a mod or manager better yet REM about this issue ,why it can't or won't be fixed .
So if an S.t.S member would like to make an official comment about this issue so we can put this to rest .:)

[Zylx]

I would truly like to hear from a mod or manager better yet REM about this issue ,why it can't or won't be fixed .
So if an S.t.S member would like to make an official comment about this issue so we can put this to rest .:)

Same, i feel as though this issue has been swept under the rug, although i feel as though Gary would have a perfect answer for this topic

[Alphagun]

Nothing new. Botting is probably here to stay. People are not going to call out their friends, and AL doesn't have a security system that screens for programs etc.

[Zylx]

Botting is either a third-party software, or a chrome-based software.

If it's chrome-based and the user plays through chrome, the server should already collect enough information to detect the processes of a macro running in the foreground, no? Since it's already able to collect info from bordering sites.

If you look at the Spacetime Studios Privacy Policy,


Game Play.
When you are playing our games or otherwise using the Services, your game-play behavior, player stats, and purchasing, if applicable, as well as other information may be monitored. We may also monitor your device information for third party programs that interact with our Services. This Privacy Policy does not apply to, and we cannot control the activities of any third parties and you should consult the respective privacy policies regarding how they use your information.

Am i interpreting wrong, or does STS clearly state they can collect device information for third party programs that interact with their services?

[Zylx]

Nothing new. Botting is probably here to stay. People are not going to call out their friends, and AL doesn't have a security system that screens for programs etc.

Yet, there are people who've been slapped on the hand with 7 day bans and STS is trusting they dont do it again (because they wont investigate again). Devs have been known to join the maps of suspicious players to determine if they are botting or not.

Either STS needs to enforce it, or take it out of their TOS